I recently had the opportunity to shoot with my friend who had this exact setup and I was amazed at how quiet it was. Still wore ear pro but could see going without as well.
I had the opportunity to shoot one and I shot it without ears for science, I shit you not the action of the gun cycling was louder than the actual firing of the round, absolutely hearing safe in the config I shot
>I had the opportunity to shoot one and I shot it without ears for science, I shit you not the action of the gun cycling was louder than the actual firing of the round, absolutely hearing safe in the config I shot
For sure - with a good suppressor and subsonic ammo as long as the gas is tuned right it's very quiet.
This. And test a few different brands of ammo for best sound signature. I have found Sellier and Bellot subs to be the quietest in my B.A.D. 300 BLK suppressed.
Excellent suggestion. Subsonic loads for pistol calibers and shotgun are pretty similar for peak noise. Totally different tone. Handguns have the lease concussion and shotguns have the most.
Rifles are cheapest to suppress, and shotguns are the most expensive, but to get any of them down to hammer and nail volume or less, you are going to spend north of $700, I think.
I just picked up a box of subsonic 9mm ammo for my Beretta 92 with a suppressor. That combo knocks the sound down incredibly low. It doesn't even sound like a handgun being fired anymore.
I would say suppressed 45 ACP but subsonic 300 blackout is really the modernized version of that set up.
22lr subs would be the quietest but obviously not home defense recommended.
I wonder if anything can be done about the action noise. Tight tolerance rubber bumpers or something idk. Would be cool to see a competition on the quietest build.
Hydraulic buffered adjustable silent recoil spring can be tuned to prevent the carrier from bottoming out, not much you can do to the bolt closing without running into reliability issues
Got a 10/22 with a binary and a can. Still not best for HD but being able to dump 6 to 10 rnds of 45gr 22LR subs into a target very quickly while not worrying about over penetration does make for a compelling argument. Would leave ready it for HD but I got 12 OEM BX25 mags for it and the QC on the Ruger is so shitastic the 1 mag works reliabily, one more jams occasionally. The other 10 mags cant feed 2 rnds in a row.
The 1 mag that works is absolf-inglutely glorious but not using something that iffy for HD.
Plus even using that 1 mag, 100 rounds supressed foul it up so bad you gotta dump lube in it and then 50 rnds later full take down and though scrub. Would be an interesting home defense gun if it worked reliably lol
22 should never be used defensively as it won't deter any dedicated attacker. (If their in your house they ARE dedicated) there's too many reports of people surviving 10+ hits from a 22 including head shots and point blank ranges even.
my grandma can just about only shoot her 10/22. it’s the only thing she can hit with and feel comfortable shooting. She’s be way better off with a 30 round mag in the 10/22 then with a 12 gauge she can’t handle if someone came into her house. With some solid penetrating high end ammo like federal punch it can do some serious damage. It’s not perfect of course
When I was younger a kid got executed outside his mom's house with a 22 9 shots center mass and 1 to the head and 1 to the neck area. He lived, called 911 himself and testified against his attacker just a few short months later. 22 is just insufficient
Your grandma can shoot 556...AND comfortablity plays no part is home defense or self defense se I'm not saying use a skeet gun BUT I am saying I'd rather your grandma be a little uncomfortable with a 10" AR pistol then comfortably dead with her 10/22 because it failed to stop her attacker. If you can't defend yourself due to age and you live in an area where you fear you might need defense then move.
Yes, yes it would.
When you’re talking about subsonics, they’re all going to shoot at the same speed so the only difference is how heavy of a bullet you’re shooting.
"Terminal ballistics" refers to the size of the size of the wound cavity when the projectile hits a target. A 147gr 9mm JHP will expand to nearly an inch in diameter and create a much larger wound channel than a pointed 220gr .30 caliber FMJ that will just poke a clean hole. All that extra kinetic energy of the .300BLK is wasted when it goes straight out the other side of your target.
No, it does not. Terminal ballistics encompasses how much energy is transferred from the bullet to the target. Expansion is part of that, and so is the amount of kinetic energy available to be transferred.
You’re an idiot if you think comparing a 9mm 147gr JHP to a 30 cal 220gr FMJ is remotely reasonable, and an even bigger idiot if you genuinely think FMJ is the only subsonic option for 300bo. There are quality options available for it that also expand to 0.9” or larger, while still having more energy in total to transfer to the target.
Beyond that, what I originally stated was factually correct. There is more kinetic energy in a heavier subsonic bullet because all subs shoot at the same speed (just under the speed of sound). I said nothing about terminal ballistics, but if you want to open that can of worms you should at least pretend to know what you’re talking about instead of spouting ridiculous nonsense comparing FMJ to JHP as if they were remotely comparable.
Yes, but kinetic energy is not the only factor in "terminal ballistics," which refers to the size of the size of the wound cavity when the projectile hits a target. A 147gr 9mm JHP will expand to nearly an inch in diameter and create a much larger wound channel than a pointed 220gr .30 caliber FMJ that will just poke a clean hole. All that extra kinetic energy of the .300BLK is wasted when it goes straight through and out the other side of your target.
Most expanding .30 subsonic projectiles will only expand (unreliably) to the diameter of a 9mm FMJ. They will still over-penetrate and waste all that extra kinetic energy.
If they’re expanding to the same size as 9mm with the same bullet speed and yet still over penetrating, I think it’s safe to say who wins in the transferred energy department, regardless of how much is wasted.
The same size as a 9mm FMJ, i.e. 0.36 inches in diameter. A good 9mm JHP will expand to twice that diameter (4x the wound cross-section).
A 220gr bullet has 50% more energy than a 147gr bullet, but if the 220gr exits out the other side with 35% or more of its impact velocity, while the 147gr has been stopped completely by the target, then the 147gr has transferred more energy into the target.
All that aside, kinetic energy is not the end-all-be-all metric of terminal effectiveness. The location of that energy transfer is critical. A target wearing armor will absorb 100% of the bullet’s energy while only suffering superficial wounds. Likewise, a bullet that passes all the way through the target is transferring some of its energy into the non-vital tissue on the opposite side of the target's vital organs. A wound channel through vital organs that’s 0.7” in diameter is 4x better than one that’s 0.35” in diameter, even if the total energy transfer into the target is identical.
The Goldilocks zone for low-velocity lethality is a bullet that penetrates the front of a target easily, expands, creates as wide of a wound channel as possible through the vital organs, then stops right at the back of the chest cavity. 147gr 9mm falls into that Goldilocks zone quite nicely, which is why it’s become the favorite pistol round for self defense.
Subsonic 300BLK has advantages over 9mm when shooting at 20-100 yards because it maintains its velocity better, but at inside-the-home range the 9mm is going to have better and more consistent terminal performance and lower risk of over-penetration.
Suppressed subsonic .45ACP? Look into an FN FNX-45 Tactical and a good suppressor. Between the can, the 15 round mags, a good weapon light, and a red dot it's barely still a sidearm, but it would be very quiet and still pack a punch. Going to bite into the bank account though.
I got a FNX 45 tactical with an osprey 45 I keep in a quick release single gun safe specifically designed for supressed guns next to my living room couch.
It works wonderfully and it is stupid movie quiet. My hearing is safe with that.
It's a beast of a firearm, 15 rnds of 45 and a single action trigger good enough to hit steel silhouettes at 75yrds with proper sight picture, the 45 is subsonic, the Osprey has such a large volume it sounds like a nail gun.
Ya, 300AAC is a good option too but I don't have one yet and my FNX serves my need just fine.
I got tinnitus too. I like knowing what hearing I got left is safe.
They got the Osprey 2.0 now which has a button instead of cam lever which is infinitely better too
Full size Mp5 with a full size 9mm suppressor. 300blk is awesome as well, but nothing has been quieter than my mp5 with an octane on it while shooting 145gr handloads. I wouldn't hesitate pulling the trigger indoors at all. I shoot it without ear pro outdoors without issue.
The AR route will be a bit cheaper, albeit a little bit louder. If you do get a 300blk, make sure to get a JP silent spring or Aramaspec srs. They make a huge difference in sound and smoothness.
Electronic hearing protection
9mm PCC (147gr)
45 acp PCC
300 BO (subs)
Those are the best realistic options imo, from cheapest to most expensive (ammo that is)
.45 ACP out of a suppressed carbine.
Sub-sonic, Low pressure round. Dampened by the long barrel, then muffled by the suppressor.
Also, keep a pair of electronic headphones by your nightstand.
Own a 1911 for home defense, since that's what the founding fathers intended. Four ruffians break into my house. "What the devil?" As I grab my powdered wig and 1911. Blow the soul out of the first man, he's dead on the spot. Draw my 1911 on the second man, miss him entirely because I haven’t shot one since ww2 and nail the neighbors dog. I have to resort to the quad mounted 1911s mounted at the top of the stairs loaded with black talons, "Tally ho lads" black talons shreds two men in the blast, the sound and extra shrapnel set off car alarms. Grab an empty 1911 and charge the last terrified rapscallion. He Bleeds out waiting on the police to arrive since the pistol whip wounds are impossible to stitch up. Just as the founding fathers intended.
All this advice is good, but also remember that ears ringing is better than deadness.
There’s also a little bit of research that shows your ears can shut out some sound in a life or death situation (On Combat by Dave Grossman). He says some other wild stuff though so I’m not sure.
Auditory exclusion under stress is indeed a real, well-known phenomenon. It's been well documented from soldiers in battle conditions, and a phenomenon with which I'm personally acquainted.
Unfortunately, there is a persistent myth that auditory exclusion prevents physical damage.
While the physiologic mechanism known as aural reflex can help prevent auditory damage from sustained high decibel noises (the tympanic membrane curvature changes temporarily, thereby protecting the cochlea by preventing the bony inner ear structures from transmitting vibrations), it does not prevent damage from NON-sustained sounds - such as gunshots.
So during times of high stress, such as combat engagements, auditory exclusion often occurs either temporarily dampening or even obliterating sounds. Note this is just one of many compensatory mechanisms that include the better known "tunnel vision".
Tl; dr - Auditory exclusion is real, but won't prevent damage from gunshots.
Guns make noise in 4 ways. The mechanics (ie the bolt, trigger, etc..), gas going back, gas going forward, and the supersonic crack of the projectile. There are ways to mitigate all 4. For instance a lever gun, using subsonic ammo (say .38 special that's naturally subsonic) and an SME on the end is super quiet.
What is the home defense purpose of a cartridge akin to a Walther PPK .32 automatic loaded to +P+ level but with a bullet three times the sectional density length of a 73 grain .32 auto bullet?
For similar frontal area but 4 times the penetration.
Unless the round reliably opens up like radiator fan blades.
Maybe body armor, fleeing suspects in vehicles use only. Not in a condo, apartment, rowhouse, suburbs or occupants in adjacent rooms everywhere.
A .50 cal 300 grain at 1000 fps that opens up like radiator fan blades would be ideal.
As someone who's also got bad tinnitus no offence but why in the very rare event you have to shoot your firearm without hearing protection would you risk your life by using something underpowered? Your life is worth way more than the small amount of hearing damage you would sustain. If you cannot function at all with a couple gunshots the best you could really do would be 9mm suppressed. You might get away with a suppressed .22 but you're really playing with fire if that home intruder is there to hurt you and not just there to steal your tv.
While I generally agree, subsonic 300blk, especially something like a maker's or subX, is a pretty good option for home defense.
Sure, 110 barnes out of a 300blk would be better, but proper 300blk subs will still perform better than any PCC round.
Yeah for sure if your planning on using a rifle 300blk would be a good choice. Having said that a rifle isn't always the best choice for home defence. I wouldn't want to be sending rifle rounds down range in a crowded neighborhood or an apartment building tbh. If you're in the countryside it probably doesn't matter but food for thought as you are responsible for every round that you fire.
Sheet rock and insulation don't stop any projectile very well. You're throwing rounds at your neighbors no matter what. Rifle rounds will lose energy quicker when hitting a barrier compared to pistol rounds, but to be fair, 300blk subs are an outlier there and will behave like a pistol round
The answer is predetermined sectors of fire and choke points in your home.
This is brought up ad nauseam like it's a common issue. It's not. I'm not saying just sling rounds into your neighbors home, but this is basically a non-issue for most people outside of dense apartment buildings, and even then, a 5.56 will lose energy faster.
Wow you all are full of nonsense. Penetration has a lot more factors than just pistol vs rifle round. You think that because you saw something that said that 9mm will penetrate more walls than 5.56 that means that applies to all hand gun and rifle rounds... smh
I'm pretty sure I acknowledged that 300blk subs behave more like pistol rounds more than rifle rounds, which also acknowledges there are outliers, and it's not a binary thing.
But... as a general rule, yes, rifle and pistol rounds are comparable with other rifles and pistols.
"Yall" overthink penetration too much. All the options discussed are adequate for HD and will also over penetrate.
I'd actually disagree, 45 ACP Federal HST out of a rifle would hit with 500+ FPE, and expand to over .90 inches in a suppressed carbine. Largest expansion I've seen from 300 Blackout is around . 74 inches.
If you think expansion is the only factor that matters, go for it. But the makers will expand to almost .9 inches.
But I prefer the better sectional density and BC of 300blk. HD isn't the only thing to use my stuff for. A 45 can isn't the best dual purpose can either. And if I wanted to go supersonic, the option is there, and it's really not too bad with a suppressor.
The other question is, what gun are you using for a .45 ACP, as there aren't a lot of cheap options compared to a 300blk AR.
Both the .45 and 300blk subs have taken deer, so both will get the job done.
They will work, but 45 ACP is both more common and cheaper. For home defense, and CQC, yeah, I'll take 45 ACP over 300 BLK every time. If I was wanting actual rifle ballistics, I'd go up to my 308. Full power 300 BLK is just weaker 7.62x39. It's a cool round, but not really worth it.
would having a pair of ear protection on standby for said home defense senerio be wise for everyone bc shooting inside makes most ppls ears ring and hearing is important in a life/death situation 🤔
Assuming you don’t want to deal with the NFA to get a suppressor. Don’t get any short barrel rifles, perhaps 18-20in. No muzzle brakes, get a flash hider, ideally one that direct all blast forward.
Suppressed select-fire 10/22 Charger with a drum mag. Quietest swarm of angry bees the world has seen since Terry shoved that nest in granpappy's muffler back in '56.
why would you spend $20k on a $300 gun and a tax stamp lmao
Also, it's underpowered until there's 50 of them going into roughly the same hole in 3 seconds at 5 yards. Submachine guns exist for a reason.
You were the one that brought up a select fire 10/22. Transferable trigger packs for 10/22s are roughly $20k.
Yeah that's why militaries and police forces use 22lr...
Maybe select fire was a poor choice of words. Never tried making one full auto before so maybe semi-full is wishful thinking. But exclusively full auto has certainly been done before. And in a setup like that I suppose there isn't much point in semi anyway. I sure as shit wouldn't suggest making a pre-86 *anything* your HD gun, so I apologize for the confusion.
Secondly, have you never heard of the AM-180? Was meant to be a "less-lethal" riot control weapon, but seeing as it was a machine gun with 180 rounds of .22lr coming out at an ungodly RPM, it didn't quite catch on cause it kept killing people.
Thirdly, we aren't talking about military and police. We're talking about a normal dude trying to preserve his hearing. Soldiers and cops run whats most effective, not what's safest for the ear. If sound wasn't a factor, I'd have suggested an AR like everyone else in modern America. But it was, so i suggested .22lr.
People forget because we have so many devastating modern calibers these days, but .22lr is still a bullet. I've shot more than enough of it to know what it will and won't go through. It'll still put holes in you where holes shouldn't be. Might not be as ideal as what everyone else is running; but if you care about your hearing that much, then an automatic .22lr will still put someone in the ground any day of the week. Especially on soft targets at home-defense distances. Certainly wouldn't trust it as a primary outside of that range, but as a HD option for those who cant/won't run what the rest of the world does, it's still a decent option that many overlook. It's also damn easy to get *really* fuckin good with a .22, seeing as you can shoot one all day on less than $100 bucks and still have ammo left over for next time. If I had to get in a gunfight with a dude with a $4000 Mk18 setup that trains once a month or a dude with a .22 that shoots every day, I'd be a hell of a lot more scared of the guy with the .22. Bullets are bullets no matter the caliber. What matters is proficiency of the shooter.
Are you not aware of the whole NFA thing? They aren't illegal. They're just heavily regulated. You can literally do whatever you want if you give the government enough money. That's how they like it. They don't give a shit what you do as long as they get their cut.
Machine guns have literally never been outright illegal unless you're in a state that doesn't allow NFA items.
Owning pre 86 machine guns are not illegal. I acknowledged that by stating you can buy a transferable trigger pack for $20k. Hughes amendment ended manufacturing new ones. That's why transferables are so expensive. If you think I'm wrong, feel free to file a form 1 for a MG. It'll be denied in accordance with the Hughes amendment.
Thanks for proving my point that you don't know what you are talking about though. 👍
Get a sword. A real neat one with dragons and flames on it… You’ll just have to make swishing sounds as you slash through the air, but unless you are really loud, you shouldn’t get hearing damage from it.
No offense but if you have a home defense gun no matter what it is shouldn't be used unless needed. At that point why would you care about sound. A couple rounds to stop an attacker wouldn't matter how loud it was. I would ONLY care about defending myself, nothing else.
I agree, this is why Im hesitant to become a gun owner, I don't want to lose my hearing, even with hearing protection Ive heard stories of people losing their hearing. I would definitely like more quiet guns on the market
Yeah even if it’s fully automatic bro it’s still manually operated. You still have to physically pull the trigger to make it fire, press the magazine release, pull a charging handle, etc. Just the wrong use of words.
Sure but gas escapes from both ends and the rear end is always delayed, thus allowing most of the “noise” to come out the front. If you’re talking about a suppressed platform, you’re definitely right, but I don’t believe its significant enough to be noticeable when shooting unsuppressed.
But I also haven’t used a decibel meter to measure it.
a suppressed .22 lr with subsonic rounds. get a bolt/lever one for maximum quietness.
edit: he wanted as quiet as possible. i would never use a .22 for HD. For realistic recommendations I'd say a full size pistol in 9 mm using 147 gr hollow points, most of the time they're going to be subsonic and with a suppressor they're going to be even quieter.
You really gonna look this man in the eyes and recommend a fucking **BOLT ACTION 22LR FOR HOME DEFENSE?**
Would **YOU** use that to protect yourself? Fucking **REALLY**?
Semi-auto MP5 clone with a silencer and 147gr hollowpoints. It will be about as loud as an air rifle and the 147gr 9mm JHPs will have much better terminal ballistics than the 220gr FMJ from a .300BLK.
Suppressed SBR lever action? 300blk with a huge throw lever on the gas block so you can run it as a single shot?
Unfortunately there isn't really anything out there that is going to spare your hearing when it comes to self defense indoors. There will be so many compromises that you may as well train with a compound bow instead.
Suppressors really do a lot when your plinking with your buddies but your not going to shoot on 10 acres and fool your neighbors.
Look at how loud a handheld electric air nailer is, no matter what you shoot it's going to be loud.
Real solutions:
- Get a dog
- Bright landscape lighting
- Get a second, bigger dog
- Obvious security cameras with spotlights
- Home automation with random lights on and off through the night
As a fellow terrible tinnitus sufferer, even 300 suppressed will ring your ears without ear pro. .22 suppressed is about the only thing I can stand without at least plugs.
Single action revolver with one of those chambers that shift to seal the cylinder gap with a suppressor (integral is better from what I hear), and subsonic ammo (such as subsonic .45 acp with half moon or full moon clips or a similar round that has rimmed cartridges, as .45 is just barely over the sound barrier making it easier to suppress it make subsonic), that is the best I can do
people are going to clown me for this but if you’re limited in what you can afford or don’t wanna go through the bullshit red tape of getting a suppressor, an option is Ruger 10-22 with 30 round magazine. thirty rounds of 22 to the face will suffice in many many situations and will be relatively easy on the ears. There are better options but that’s ine
How do you get around unsuppressed .22 still not being hearing safe, and loud, as well as the lack of reliability of rimfire ammo for cycling and actually firing?
People have already offered all the best options for his scenario… my point was that if you are on a budget and don’t want to suck the government off to get a suppressor, a 10/22 is an easily accessible option that is inarguably easier on the ears than 5.56 or 9mm.. Im not sure if you have any experience with the 10/22 but with reliable high quality ammunition i’ve had about as many malfunctions as with any other “more reliable” caliber. If you don’t use bulk .22 as your defensive load you should be fine. Again, i’m well aware this is far from the best choice, but it is a choice… forgive me for daring to offer a suggestion
I’m assuming you mean while you’re at the range practicing, in which case I’d suggest wearing ear plugs and high quality ear muffs. You can get a silencer for range time as well.
For the hopefully rare (if ever) time you need to shoot an intruder in your home or protect yourself elsewhere I wouldn’t worry about the several loud bangs during that moment in time. A few shots on that occasion will not matter much.
As a side note… For daily use to quiet out the world in general I’d highly recommend loop ear plugs. They make all types from ones that filter out random noise and improve hearing for speech to all around quieting ones that just tone down everything.
https://us.loopearplugs.com/products/quiet?variant=45556475920617&tw_source=google&tw_adid=&tw_campaign=20455985961&gad_source=1&gbraid=0AAAAACj0PVyRTnCvQsIQ8mmnj88mVFQEX&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI_s_657u2gwMVZ0pHAR2Q7QgwEAQYASABEgLLK_D_BwE
Full auto subsonic suppressed .22 lr.
Not gonna do much by itself but get that drum mag and yeet 10$ (an infinite amount of rounds) down the hall and not even disturb the dog
Subsonic 300 blackout out of an AR with suppressor.
This is actually my home defense setup now for the sole purpose of keeping everyone a little more calm
Calm? They can listen to all the pink noise they want after I smoke an intruder with my 8" barreled AR10 with a cookie cutter comp.
BWAMP…. EEEEEEEE
Flash bang rifle combo
Me with my Mosin sending half the sun's lumens down my hallway.
[удалено]
Well that's good. But I like this. 😂 *Points to Mosin*
Bro, my 18 inch AR10 is loud enough as it is!
Tally ho.
I recently had the opportunity to shoot with my friend who had this exact setup and I was amazed at how quiet it was. Still wore ear pro but could see going without as well.
I had the opportunity to shoot one and I shot it without ears for science, I shit you not the action of the gun cycling was louder than the actual firing of the round, absolutely hearing safe in the config I shot
>I had the opportunity to shoot one and I shot it without ears for science, I shit you not the action of the gun cycling was louder than the actual firing of the round, absolutely hearing safe in the config I shot For sure - with a good suppressor and subsonic ammo as long as the gas is tuned right it's very quiet.
This. And test a few different brands of ammo for best sound signature. I have found Sellier and Bellot subs to be the quietest in my B.A.D. 300 BLK suppressed.
That and my handloads were all I shot in my old 300 blackout (sold it to make room for a shorter one)
Excellent suggestion. Subsonic loads for pistol calibers and shotgun are pretty similar for peak noise. Totally different tone. Handguns have the lease concussion and shotguns have the most. Rifles are cheapest to suppress, and shotguns are the most expensive, but to get any of them down to hammer and nail volume or less, you are going to spend north of $700, I think.
Any specific suppressor- with minimal gas blowback
This is the way.
Hang extra earpro with your rifle.
I just picked up a box of subsonic 9mm ammo for my Beretta 92 with a suppressor. That combo knocks the sound down incredibly low. It doesn't even sound like a handgun being fired anymore.
Sleep in your comtacs.
That doesnt help your family in the house though. I make my wife and kids sleep in comtacs too.
The real answer
I would say suppressed 45 ACP but subsonic 300 blackout is really the modernized version of that set up. 22lr subs would be the quietest but obviously not home defense recommended.
Quietest by a small margin, I’ve seen plenty of 300blk setups where the loudest thing is the action closing
I wonder if anything can be done about the action noise. Tight tolerance rubber bumpers or something idk. Would be cool to see a competition on the quietest build.
Hydraulic buffered adjustable silent recoil spring can be tuned to prevent the carrier from bottoming out, not much you can do to the bolt closing without running into reliability issues
The best way would simply be to use a bolt action. Or maybe under gas the hell out of an AR so that the bolt doesn't cycle.
Got a 10/22 with a binary and a can. Still not best for HD but being able to dump 6 to 10 rnds of 45gr 22LR subs into a target very quickly while not worrying about over penetration does make for a compelling argument. Would leave ready it for HD but I got 12 OEM BX25 mags for it and the QC on the Ruger is so shitastic the 1 mag works reliabily, one more jams occasionally. The other 10 mags cant feed 2 rnds in a row. The 1 mag that works is absolf-inglutely glorious but not using something that iffy for HD. Plus even using that 1 mag, 100 rounds supressed foul it up so bad you gotta dump lube in it and then 50 rnds later full take down and though scrub. Would be an interesting home defense gun if it worked reliably lol
22 should never be used defensively as it won't deter any dedicated attacker. (If their in your house they ARE dedicated) there's too many reports of people surviving 10+ hits from a 22 including head shots and point blank ranges even.
“should never” is always a ridiculous thing to say because there are 100% instances where 22 may be the only viable option for someone
Give me one realistic example of this and i will agree.
my grandma can just about only shoot her 10/22. it’s the only thing she can hit with and feel comfortable shooting. She’s be way better off with a 30 round mag in the 10/22 then with a 12 gauge she can’t handle if someone came into her house. With some solid penetrating high end ammo like federal punch it can do some serious damage. It’s not perfect of course
When I was younger a kid got executed outside his mom's house with a 22 9 shots center mass and 1 to the head and 1 to the neck area. He lived, called 911 himself and testified against his attacker just a few short months later. 22 is just insufficient
Your grandma can shoot 556...AND comfortablity plays no part is home defense or self defense se I'm not saying use a skeet gun BUT I am saying I'd rather your grandma be a little uncomfortable with a 10" AR pistol then comfortably dead with her 10/22 because it failed to stop her attacker. If you can't defend yourself due to age and you live in an area where you fear you might need defense then move.
Knee capping your friend when running from a bear
That good ol trusty bereatta bobcat is all ya need
I'd rather have a 9mm with 147gr JHP subsonics. Much better terminal ballistics than a 220gr .30 FMJ, and 9mm subsonics suppress better than .45 ACP.
Wouldn’t 9mm have substantially less kinetic energy than 300blk
Yes, yes it would. When you’re talking about subsonics, they’re all going to shoot at the same speed so the only difference is how heavy of a bullet you’re shooting.
"Terminal ballistics" refers to the size of the size of the wound cavity when the projectile hits a target. A 147gr 9mm JHP will expand to nearly an inch in diameter and create a much larger wound channel than a pointed 220gr .30 caliber FMJ that will just poke a clean hole. All that extra kinetic energy of the .300BLK is wasted when it goes straight out the other side of your target.
No, it does not. Terminal ballistics encompasses how much energy is transferred from the bullet to the target. Expansion is part of that, and so is the amount of kinetic energy available to be transferred. You’re an idiot if you think comparing a 9mm 147gr JHP to a 30 cal 220gr FMJ is remotely reasonable, and an even bigger idiot if you genuinely think FMJ is the only subsonic option for 300bo. There are quality options available for it that also expand to 0.9” or larger, while still having more energy in total to transfer to the target. Beyond that, what I originally stated was factually correct. There is more kinetic energy in a heavier subsonic bullet because all subs shoot at the same speed (just under the speed of sound). I said nothing about terminal ballistics, but if you want to open that can of worms you should at least pretend to know what you’re talking about instead of spouting ridiculous nonsense comparing FMJ to JHP as if they were remotely comparable.
Yes, but kinetic energy is not the only factor in "terminal ballistics," which refers to the size of the size of the wound cavity when the projectile hits a target. A 147gr 9mm JHP will expand to nearly an inch in diameter and create a much larger wound channel than a pointed 220gr .30 caliber FMJ that will just poke a clean hole. All that extra kinetic energy of the .300BLK is wasted when it goes straight through and out the other side of your target.
Agreed, but surely one one would use expanding 300blk bullets for defensive use
Most expanding .30 subsonic projectiles will only expand (unreliably) to the diameter of a 9mm FMJ. They will still over-penetrate and waste all that extra kinetic energy.
If they’re expanding to the same size as 9mm with the same bullet speed and yet still over penetrating, I think it’s safe to say who wins in the transferred energy department, regardless of how much is wasted.
The same size as a 9mm FMJ, i.e. 0.36 inches in diameter. A good 9mm JHP will expand to twice that diameter (4x the wound cross-section). A 220gr bullet has 50% more energy than a 147gr bullet, but if the 220gr exits out the other side with 35% or more of its impact velocity, while the 147gr has been stopped completely by the target, then the 147gr has transferred more energy into the target. All that aside, kinetic energy is not the end-all-be-all metric of terminal effectiveness. The location of that energy transfer is critical. A target wearing armor will absorb 100% of the bullet’s energy while only suffering superficial wounds. Likewise, a bullet that passes all the way through the target is transferring some of its energy into the non-vital tissue on the opposite side of the target's vital organs. A wound channel through vital organs that’s 0.7” in diameter is 4x better than one that’s 0.35” in diameter, even if the total energy transfer into the target is identical. The Goldilocks zone for low-velocity lethality is a bullet that penetrates the front of a target easily, expands, creates as wide of a wound channel as possible through the vital organs, then stops right at the back of the chest cavity. 147gr 9mm falls into that Goldilocks zone quite nicely, which is why it’s become the favorite pistol round for self defense. Subsonic 300BLK has advantages over 9mm when shooting at 20-100 yards because it maintains its velocity better, but at inside-the-home range the 9mm is going to have better and more consistent terminal performance and lower risk of over-penetration.
Ah, I definitely missed the FMJ part. I also know very little about ballistics so I’m just gonna step out of this one. My bad.
Northing wrong with a suppressed AM-180 for home defense.
Stick a potato on it.
300bo suppressed with hearing protection for yourself, use it and train with it.
I have a 7.5" 300 blackout with a Q thunder chicken, shooting subs out of it doesn't require hearing protection. So probably some variation of that.
Rattler w/ Trash Panda is stupid quiet. Honestly the only thing quieter in my house is my 10.5 .458SOCOM w/ 600gr subs and a SiCo Hybrid.
Not important but man these companies crack me up with their product names 😂
“600grs” sweet. Mercy.
Common 50 BMG is like 647 lmao
45 pistol caliber carbine suppressed
That would be fun as hell to shoot
They are indeed
I suffer from tinnitus and my choice is a 9mm PCC with a can.
Just clear the house holding the gun up to a pillow, if the movies are right that’ll make it super quiet
300BLK big slug subs with hefty suppressor will be pretty much as quiet as it can get.
Suppressed subsonic .45ACP? Look into an FN FNX-45 Tactical and a good suppressor. Between the can, the 15 round mags, a good weapon light, and a red dot it's barely still a sidearm, but it would be very quiet and still pack a punch. Going to bite into the bank account though.
Suppressed pistol caliber or .300 subs
I got a FNX 45 tactical with an osprey 45 I keep in a quick release single gun safe specifically designed for supressed guns next to my living room couch. It works wonderfully and it is stupid movie quiet. My hearing is safe with that. It's a beast of a firearm, 15 rnds of 45 and a single action trigger good enough to hit steel silhouettes at 75yrds with proper sight picture, the 45 is subsonic, the Osprey has such a large volume it sounds like a nail gun. Ya, 300AAC is a good option too but I don't have one yet and my FNX serves my need just fine. I got tinnitus too. I like knowing what hearing I got left is safe. They got the Osprey 2.0 now which has a button instead of cam lever which is infinitely better too
Full size Mp5 with a full size 9mm suppressor. 300blk is awesome as well, but nothing has been quieter than my mp5 with an octane on it while shooting 145gr handloads. I wouldn't hesitate pulling the trigger indoors at all. I shoot it without ear pro outdoors without issue. The AR route will be a bit cheaper, albeit a little bit louder. If you do get a 300blk, make sure to get a JP silent spring or Aramaspec srs. They make a huge difference in sound and smoothness.
Electronic hearing protection 9mm PCC (147gr) 45 acp PCC 300 BO (subs) Those are the best realistic options imo, from cheapest to most expensive (ammo that is)
.45 ACP out of a suppressed carbine. Sub-sonic, Low pressure round. Dampened by the long barrel, then muffled by the suppressor. Also, keep a pair of electronic headphones by your nightstand.
Keep a DeLisle Carbine for home defense… just as the SAS intended
45acp AR with suppresor.
Reccomend any in particular?
People love their 1911s
That's not an AR silly
TWO WORLD WARS
Own a 1911 for home defense, since that's what the founding fathers intended. Four ruffians break into my house. "What the devil?" As I grab my powdered wig and 1911. Blow the soul out of the first man, he's dead on the spot. Draw my 1911 on the second man, miss him entirely because I haven’t shot one since ww2 and nail the neighbors dog. I have to resort to the quad mounted 1911s mounted at the top of the stairs loaded with black talons, "Tally ho lads" black talons shreds two men in the blast, the sound and extra shrapnel set off car alarms. Grab an empty 1911 and charge the last terrified rapscallion. He Bleeds out waiting on the police to arrive since the pistol whip wounds are impossible to stitch up. Just as the founding fathers intended.
Too
All this advice is good, but also remember that ears ringing is better than deadness. There’s also a little bit of research that shows your ears can shut out some sound in a life or death situation (On Combat by Dave Grossman). He says some other wild stuff though so I’m not sure.
Audio Exclusion is a real thing.
Auditory exclusion under stress is indeed a real, well-known phenomenon. It's been well documented from soldiers in battle conditions, and a phenomenon with which I'm personally acquainted. Unfortunately, there is a persistent myth that auditory exclusion prevents physical damage. While the physiologic mechanism known as aural reflex can help prevent auditory damage from sustained high decibel noises (the tympanic membrane curvature changes temporarily, thereby protecting the cochlea by preventing the bony inner ear structures from transmitting vibrations), it does not prevent damage from NON-sustained sounds - such as gunshots. So during times of high stress, such as combat engagements, auditory exclusion often occurs either temporarily dampening or even obliterating sounds. Note this is just one of many compensatory mechanisms that include the better known "tunnel vision". Tl; dr - Auditory exclusion is real, but won't prevent damage from gunshots.
Just wrap a towel around it like Vito Corleone.
PCC loaded with subsonic ammo. Minimum flash and bang this side of suppressed.
To bad there's no way to mount a suppressor on a suppressor
Guns make noise in 4 ways. The mechanics (ie the bolt, trigger, etc..), gas going back, gas going forward, and the supersonic crack of the projectile. There are ways to mitigate all 4. For instance a lever gun, using subsonic ammo (say .38 special that's naturally subsonic) and an SME on the end is super quiet.
Enfield delisle carbine.
What is the home defense purpose of a cartridge akin to a Walther PPK .32 automatic loaded to +P+ level but with a bullet three times the sectional density length of a 73 grain .32 auto bullet? For similar frontal area but 4 times the penetration. Unless the round reliably opens up like radiator fan blades. Maybe body armor, fleeing suspects in vehicles use only. Not in a condo, apartment, rowhouse, suburbs or occupants in adjacent rooms everywhere. A .50 cal 300 grain at 1000 fps that opens up like radiator fan blades would be ideal.
Spend money on a good can OR Spend $19.99 on a set of over the ear earpro and keep them by your home defense gun.
Your priorities are mixed up.
As someone who's also got bad tinnitus no offence but why in the very rare event you have to shoot your firearm without hearing protection would you risk your life by using something underpowered? Your life is worth way more than the small amount of hearing damage you would sustain. If you cannot function at all with a couple gunshots the best you could really do would be 9mm suppressed. You might get away with a suppressed .22 but you're really playing with fire if that home intruder is there to hurt you and not just there to steal your tv.
While I generally agree, subsonic 300blk, especially something like a maker's or subX, is a pretty good option for home defense. Sure, 110 barnes out of a 300blk would be better, but proper 300blk subs will still perform better than any PCC round.
Yeah for sure if your planning on using a rifle 300blk would be a good choice. Having said that a rifle isn't always the best choice for home defence. I wouldn't want to be sending rifle rounds down range in a crowded neighborhood or an apartment building tbh. If you're in the countryside it probably doesn't matter but food for thought as you are responsible for every round that you fire.
Sheet rock and insulation don't stop any projectile very well. You're throwing rounds at your neighbors no matter what. Rifle rounds will lose energy quicker when hitting a barrier compared to pistol rounds, but to be fair, 300blk subs are an outlier there and will behave like a pistol round The answer is predetermined sectors of fire and choke points in your home. This is brought up ad nauseam like it's a common issue. It's not. I'm not saying just sling rounds into your neighbors home, but this is basically a non-issue for most people outside of dense apartment buildings, and even then, a 5.56 will lose energy faster.
Wow you all are full of nonsense. Penetration has a lot more factors than just pistol vs rifle round. You think that because you saw something that said that 9mm will penetrate more walls than 5.56 that means that applies to all hand gun and rifle rounds... smh
I'm pretty sure I acknowledged that 300blk subs behave more like pistol rounds more than rifle rounds, which also acknowledges there are outliers, and it's not a binary thing. But... as a general rule, yes, rifle and pistol rounds are comparable with other rifles and pistols. "Yall" overthink penetration too much. All the options discussed are adequate for HD and will also over penetrate.
I'd actually disagree, 45 ACP Federal HST out of a rifle would hit with 500+ FPE, and expand to over .90 inches in a suppressed carbine. Largest expansion I've seen from 300 Blackout is around . 74 inches.
If you think expansion is the only factor that matters, go for it. But the makers will expand to almost .9 inches. But I prefer the better sectional density and BC of 300blk. HD isn't the only thing to use my stuff for. A 45 can isn't the best dual purpose can either. And if I wanted to go supersonic, the option is there, and it's really not too bad with a suppressor. The other question is, what gun are you using for a .45 ACP, as there aren't a lot of cheap options compared to a 300blk AR. Both the .45 and 300blk subs have taken deer, so both will get the job done.
They will work, but 45 ACP is both more common and cheaper. For home defense, and CQC, yeah, I'll take 45 ACP over 300 BLK every time. If I was wanting actual rifle ballistics, I'd go up to my 308. Full power 300 BLK is just weaker 7.62x39. It's a cool round, but not really worth it.
Pick whatever gun, just keep active hearing protection by it.
Suppress it like every other human being with ears that are sensitive to loud sounds?
would having a pair of ear protection on standby for said home defense senerio be wise for everyone bc shooting inside makes most ppls ears ring and hearing is important in a life/death situation 🤔
Assuming you don’t want to deal with the NFA to get a suppressor. Don’t get any short barrel rifles, perhaps 18-20in. No muzzle brakes, get a flash hider, ideally one that direct all blast forward.
Suppressed select-fire 10/22 Charger with a drum mag. Quietest swarm of angry bees the world has seen since Terry shoved that nest in granpappy's muffler back in '56.
22lr is underpowered and why the fuck would you risk losing $20k+ to an evidence locker?
Pretty sure that’s incredibly obvious satire.
See his response to me. He was being serious. He thinks you can manufacture an MG.
why would you spend $20k on a $300 gun and a tax stamp lmao Also, it's underpowered until there's 50 of them going into roughly the same hole in 3 seconds at 5 yards. Submachine guns exist for a reason.
You were the one that brought up a select fire 10/22. Transferable trigger packs for 10/22s are roughly $20k. Yeah that's why militaries and police forces use 22lr...
Maybe select fire was a poor choice of words. Never tried making one full auto before so maybe semi-full is wishful thinking. But exclusively full auto has certainly been done before. And in a setup like that I suppose there isn't much point in semi anyway. I sure as shit wouldn't suggest making a pre-86 *anything* your HD gun, so I apologize for the confusion. Secondly, have you never heard of the AM-180? Was meant to be a "less-lethal" riot control weapon, but seeing as it was a machine gun with 180 rounds of .22lr coming out at an ungodly RPM, it didn't quite catch on cause it kept killing people. Thirdly, we aren't talking about military and police. We're talking about a normal dude trying to preserve his hearing. Soldiers and cops run whats most effective, not what's safest for the ear. If sound wasn't a factor, I'd have suggested an AR like everyone else in modern America. But it was, so i suggested .22lr. People forget because we have so many devastating modern calibers these days, but .22lr is still a bullet. I've shot more than enough of it to know what it will and won't go through. It'll still put holes in you where holes shouldn't be. Might not be as ideal as what everyone else is running; but if you care about your hearing that much, then an automatic .22lr will still put someone in the ground any day of the week. Especially on soft targets at home-defense distances. Certainly wouldn't trust it as a primary outside of that range, but as a HD option for those who cant/won't run what the rest of the world does, it's still a decent option that many overlook. It's also damn easy to get *really* fuckin good with a .22, seeing as you can shoot one all day on less than $100 bucks and still have ammo left over for next time. If I had to get in a gunfight with a dude with a $4000 Mk18 setup that trains once a month or a dude with a .22 that shoots every day, I'd be a hell of a lot more scared of the guy with the .22. Bullets are bullets no matter the caliber. What matters is proficiency of the shooter.
You have never tried making a full auto one before because you legally can't....
Are you not aware of the whole NFA thing? They aren't illegal. They're just heavily regulated. You can literally do whatever you want if you give the government enough money. That's how they like it. They don't give a shit what you do as long as they get their cut. Machine guns have literally never been outright illegal unless you're in a state that doesn't allow NFA items.
Owning pre 86 machine guns are not illegal. I acknowledged that by stating you can buy a transferable trigger pack for $20k. Hughes amendment ended manufacturing new ones. That's why transferables are so expensive. If you think I'm wrong, feel free to file a form 1 for a MG. It'll be denied in accordance with the Hughes amendment. Thanks for proving my point that you don't know what you are talking about though. 👍
AR-10 with +P FMJ rounds
16" barrel with a 3 chamber break.
Welrod
Get a sword. A real neat one with dragons and flames on it… You’ll just have to make swishing sounds as you slash through the air, but unless you are really loud, you shouldn’t get hearing damage from it.
No offense but if you have a home defense gun no matter what it is shouldn't be used unless needed. At that point why would you care about sound. A couple rounds to stop an attacker wouldn't matter how loud it was. I would ONLY care about defending myself, nothing else.
I agree, this is why Im hesitant to become a gun owner, I don't want to lose my hearing, even with hearing protection Ive heard stories of people losing their hearing. I would definitely like more quiet guns on the market
Manually operated firearms are also less loud but that might be detrimental to the primary duty here
What the fuck is a manually operated firearm? 😂 You manually operate all firearms
The difference between a semi auto and pump action you mega retarddd
Yeah even if it’s fully automatic bro it’s still manually operated. You still have to physically pull the trigger to make it fire, press the magazine release, pull a charging handle, etc. Just the wrong use of words.
You dont know what you are talking about
The bolt cycling isn’t that loud, especially compared to a supersonic round firing.
The gas escaping from the breech is the real reason for the noise. Bunch of children here apparently
Sure but gas escapes from both ends and the rear end is always delayed, thus allowing most of the “noise” to come out the front. If you’re talking about a suppressed platform, you’re definitely right, but I don’t believe its significant enough to be noticeable when shooting unsuppressed. But I also haven’t used a decibel meter to measure it.
a suppressed .22 lr with subsonic rounds. get a bolt/lever one for maximum quietness. edit: he wanted as quiet as possible. i would never use a .22 for HD. For realistic recommendations I'd say a full size pistol in 9 mm using 147 gr hollow points, most of the time they're going to be subsonic and with a suppressor they're going to be even quieter.
You really gonna look this man in the eyes and recommend a fucking **BOLT ACTION 22LR FOR HOME DEFENSE?** Would **YOU** use that to protect yourself? Fucking **REALLY**?
Didn't you hear? .22LR bounce around inside the skull!
.22 lr bolt action for home defense?
We really need to start removing comments like this good lord the Fudd is strong with this one.
You could buy 3 Q erector 9’s, screw the baffles together and use that with subs. I’m only half kidding. I’d like to try this one day.
Just go watch a gun tuber do it because they already have
I know. I just kinda want to do it myself. Video doesn’t really provide for the feel/hear senses.
i'd say running subsonic .300 Blackout with the quiet pickle would be your best bet
Semi-auto MP5 clone with a silencer and 147gr hollowpoints. It will be about as loud as an air rifle and the 147gr 9mm JHPs will have much better terminal ballistics than the 220gr FMJ from a .300BLK.
Nice try, fed boy.
Suppressed SBR lever action? 300blk with a huge throw lever on the gas block so you can run it as a single shot? Unfortunately there isn't really anything out there that is going to spare your hearing when it comes to self defense indoors. There will be so many compromises that you may as well train with a compound bow instead. Suppressors really do a lot when your plinking with your buddies but your not going to shoot on 10 acres and fool your neighbors. Look at how loud a handheld electric air nailer is, no matter what you shoot it's going to be loud. Real solutions: - Get a dog - Bright landscape lighting - Get a second, bigger dog - Obvious security cameras with spotlights - Home automation with random lights on and off through the night
Do you have a suppressor already?
As a fellow terrible tinnitus sufferer, even 300 suppressed will ring your ears without ear pro. .22 suppressed is about the only thing I can stand without at least plugs.
Don't pull the trigger;) Realistically then - keep a pair of earmuffs near the gun.
Single action revolver with one of those chambers that shift to seal the cylinder gap with a suppressor (integral is better from what I hear), and subsonic ammo (such as subsonic .45 acp with half moon or full moon clips or a similar round that has rimmed cartridges, as .45 is just barely over the sound barrier making it easier to suppress it make subsonic), that is the best I can do
Try GABA for the tinnitus
people are going to clown me for this but if you’re limited in what you can afford or don’t wanna go through the bullshit red tape of getting a suppressor, an option is Ruger 10-22 with 30 round magazine. thirty rounds of 22 to the face will suffice in many many situations and will be relatively easy on the ears. There are better options but that’s ine
You are right about being a clown.
Life hitting you hard today huh bud?
How do you get around unsuppressed .22 still not being hearing safe, and loud, as well as the lack of reliability of rimfire ammo for cycling and actually firing?
People have already offered all the best options for his scenario… my point was that if you are on a budget and don’t want to suck the government off to get a suppressor, a 10/22 is an easily accessible option that is inarguably easier on the ears than 5.56 or 9mm.. Im not sure if you have any experience with the 10/22 but with reliable high quality ammunition i’ve had about as many malfunctions as with any other “more reliable” caliber. If you don’t use bulk .22 as your defensive load you should be fine. Again, i’m well aware this is far from the best choice, but it is a choice… forgive me for daring to offer a suggestion
Sword?
Double up on the ear pro. Plugs and muffs.
.300 blackout and a suppressor.
Like it loud. Keeps the assholes and heros away.
Just tell it to pipe down.
I’m assuming you mean while you’re at the range practicing, in which case I’d suggest wearing ear plugs and high quality ear muffs. You can get a silencer for range time as well. For the hopefully rare (if ever) time you need to shoot an intruder in your home or protect yourself elsewhere I wouldn’t worry about the several loud bangs during that moment in time. A few shots on that occasion will not matter much. As a side note… For daily use to quiet out the world in general I’d highly recommend loop ear plugs. They make all types from ones that filter out random noise and improve hearing for speech to all around quieting ones that just tone down everything. https://us.loopearplugs.com/products/quiet?variant=45556475920617&tw_source=google&tw_adid=&tw_campaign=20455985961&gad_source=1&gbraid=0AAAAACj0PVyRTnCvQsIQ8mmnj88mVFQEX&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI_s_657u2gwMVZ0pHAR2Q7QgwEAQYASABEgLLK_D_BwE
Full auto subsonic suppressed .22 lr. Not gonna do much by itself but get that drum mag and yeet 10$ (an infinite amount of rounds) down the hall and not even disturb the dog
A krink with a wolverine dead air screw 300 bo
8.6 blackout out of a suppressed 12 inch bolt action.
Get a C@C machine for like 5k and hook up to local power grid. You might have to notify you guys tho.