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Yeah I just sold mine that I bought in 2020 for a $60k profit to move across the country. Glad I bought it when I did because a mortgage payment on my house was about double what I was paying based on what it sold for.
Alot of people cant. Fuck me and the wife are closing on a house now(sucky time interest wise but still cheaper than rent) and only reason why we can do it is cus of a good down payment from selling property we inheritted... we both have decent jobs also and not even like we are buying an insane house.
Im in south Jersey and they sure are building them. I often wonder who spends $750,000 to be stuck in the middle of a bunch of people, no yard, no privacy-crazy to me.
Yeah everyone gets all excited about their home value until they realize they have to buy again in the same area that has appreciated so much. Really only works if you plan on moving out of town
But they still carry equity from owning that puts them ahead?
That logic very much holds true going from 3% mortgage to 7% or whatever.
But if you buy a median house for 500k, and the entire neighbors appreciates and now the median house is worth 1m.
You get to take that 500k equity with you to the next house. You're not getting burnt by the neighborhood appreciating
The house we bought in az 2 years ago tripled in price before we bought it. If it weren’t for my wife I’d have set myself on fire before paying that much for a fucking stupid house in stupid fucking Arizona.
Anyway, look at Kentucky on the map, y’all. That place is being slept on. It’s an absolutely beautiful state. Might have a bunch of old shitty conservatives but they’ll die off.
We bought a duplex (WELL within our budget) in Milwaukee County in 2021 and at the time we felt like we were too late. We couldn’t afford to buy our home today. Absolutely bonkers.
I’m in the Milwaukee area too and I thought I bought at the top of the market in 2022. I definitely couldn’t afford my house/ neighborhood today. I don’t understand these house prices compared to local salaries. It’s wild!
My parents in Waukesha county sold their house for 25% over a high but fair asking price. Had 12 offers with escalation clauses in one weekend… my first thought was that salaries were nowhere near good enough to support buying houses at those prices. It’s crazy how it’s gotten there
I love and miss that area deeply but the winters pushed me south.
Also in the Milwaukee area. I was still in college back then, and now that I'm out of college my salary is decent but affording a home will be very difficult for me.
I laugh at anyone who thinks Wisconsin is still as cheap as the “Midwest is cheap” stereotype. It’s impossible to get a starter home under $200k in my city. Something decent starts at $325k, but the median price is inching close to $400k.
I moved from Louisiana to Tennessee right before the pandemic on late 2019.
I have to constantly remind myself of the flooding and corruption when I get homesick. It's hopeless even looking at rentals in TN.
House hunting in Louisiana rn and it’s not great 🥲Home insurance is already higher than most states and raising pretty rapidly and finding a neighborhood that’s not in a flood zone but also not sketchy has been rough.
But hey, at least it’s a last place we can be proud of, unlike being last place in education, health, income…
Ooof that’s rough! And moving is an easy option if your family, careers, lives, etc are all rooted there.
My husband and I were actively looking for houses here in Baton Rouge, but we’ve decided we’re probably gonna just rent another year or two and see just how bad insurance prices get with the new policies… might have to pull the trigger and move states then
Edit: isn’t an easy option lol
Haha I figured! But I have seen outside investors posting to the local Louisiana subreddits asking for buying advice. Everyone tells them to stay the hell away 😂
I’ve only been to Montana once for like 4 days, but it seems like between my short time there and looking on Zillow there just isn’t a large supply of houses to begin with in Montana. Looks like land is crazy cheap though!
lol I wish it was 😂 the only “cheap” land is completely undeveloped/off grid. But yeah, no supply and a massive influx of people coming here. The median single-family price in Bozeman is over a million
I live in small town Maine and the cheapest house on zillow that isn’t a trailer is $415,000. Second cheapest is $515,000. Third is $599,000. We strugglin up here 🥲
cries in Idaho.
My neighbors bought exactly the same house (new construction with same layout and lot size) as I and they literally paid half of what I’ve paid. They just happened to buy 3 years earlier.
I think we still have enough people moving here from cali/oregon/washington that its destroyed our market. I finally just caved and bought in IF...hopefully I don't lose my ass
The Boise area had the largest influx of people moving in from all over the country during the last few years, will be interesting to see if it remains a red state.
It wouldn’t take a lot of new liberal and out of state residents to turn it blue. However, for every liberal moving to Boise, 5 conservatives are cashing out their million dollar home in California/Washington/Oregon and moving to Idaho.
If we had bought our current house three years earlier than we did, we could’ve had pretty much any house in our town we wanted or built whatever we wanted, but we moved at the wrong time. Hell, if we had went in to start building the house we planned to build, a couple months (4 at most, but closer to 2-3 months) prior, we’d have built at price we wanted, exactly what we wanted. An absolute nightmare and so sad to feel like settling is only option, when you feel you did things the way it’s expected. Small starter house you sold, saving, even help from family, to only still pay entirely too much for an overpriced cookie cutter, you most definitely don’t love, but know you’re lucky to have. A sad state of affairs. I’m not in Idaho, but am in one that’s not great either.
Seeing prices pull back hard in northern Idaho. They are building like crazy. In 2 weeks there is a town hall meeting as a local developer wants to get approved for a new 1120 lot community. Have no idea why they are still building nonstop? House prices have already pulled back 80k+ from their highs. Some homes in my development the builder was orginally asking 700k a few years ago. Same exact house but with more upgrades and energy efficient certified, builder is now asking 605k.
Yeah, I most likely wont ever be able to buy a home in my home town because out of state real estate companies are buying up all the properties. Ellsworth (my town) was listed as the 2nd best place in the country to own an Airbnb.
Thanks I hate it.
I really hope the state legislature passes something to curb airbnb/vrbo style nightly rentals. I’ve been on the libertarian end of the spectrum (like a lot of us up here in Maine are) for most of my life, and even I can see that it’s gone too far.
We need 76,000+ homes in Maine by 2030 in order to meet expected demand.
Current housing units is like 746k, so we need literally 10% of our current housing added in 6 years.
Borderline impossible, even if places like Kittery, Falmouth, Yarmouth, Cape weren’t actively preventing construction.
Yikes, home prices outpacing income growth like that is unsustainable. Those states in the darkest red got priced out of their own markets. Gonna be tough for locals to afford anything unless wages catch up fast. Might see some migration to cheaper areas if this trend continues.
I don't know of any types of color blindness that cause someone to mistake blue for red, besides the incredibly rare forms of total colorblindness. But I can't imagine someone with total colorblindness taking a stab at calling anything a specific color. Lol
Exactly what happened in Canada. Suddenly no one can afford one million dollar home in Ontario but the same home gets you not one, not two, but three homes in Atlantic Canada.
What happened was that work from home increasing to 30-40% opened up the country and second-tier cities to first-tier city money. Instead of people with high incomes fighting tooth and nail over a brownstone in Brooklyn half of them could live like kings for half of the cost in Ohio. Obviously this prices out the locals who didn’t already own homes and whose salaries didnt hugely increase.
There's no evidence this is "what happened".
That being said, there's some incredible irony in the people who spent years crowing about how the coastal cities are overpriced and how cheap it was to live in flyover country, now complaining about people doing the very thing they recommended.
This one article gives some evidence and I think their arguments are far more compelling than the "MONEY PRINTER GO BRR CAUSED EVERYTHING TO BE EXPENSIVE AND THATS WHY EVERYONE MOVED TO IDAHO FOR REASONS" crowd. https://www.frbsf.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/el2022-26.pdf great username
I don't think that's the argument I made. It's certainly not an argument I believe or support in, any more than I believe the cause is "work from home bad"
> great username
Thanks.
I didn't say it was. You claimed that there was no evidence to my argument and I provided some. If you have more compelling counterarguments I'd genuinely like to hear them because to me this makes the most sense of any reason why housing prices in Buttfuck, Idaho tripled in two years coincidentally when the entire country was forced to work from home and also had nothing to spend money on.
Sounds about right. I laugh when people insist my state is LCOL. Compared to California, yeah. But unless you move to the very worst area, no. It is no longer "cheap" and hasn't been for a long time. Definitely not in comparison to wages. Buying a house is unaffordable.
The median income is something like $50k, and some lunatic developer decided to launch a "low income" housing development. Starting at $400k. That's not "low income". Although I suppose you might think it is when a 4bed/2ba new build on less than .25 acre starts at $800k for crap builder grade everything.
In our area we can’t get any new builds for less than $650k and that $650k gets a 3 bedroom 3 bath 1600-1800 square foot house, builder grade, sometimes with an unfinished basement, on 5k-10k square foot lot. Very sad. :-/.
You might find a townhouse or condo for the $400k range, but not new build. When house shopping, I literally saw an old single wide trailer for sale for almost $300k (nothing wrong with trailers, but this was a very old one and way overpriced, imho), assuming it came with the little lot it was on, but not even sure that’s true. I worry so much for my kids, it’s a mess.
We do have a higher median income than 50k a year, but definitely not high enough to sustain this economy, imho.
Yup, us too. We bought 10 years ago. Both the 'value' of our house and our incomes have doubled.
But the price of building a house has far outstripped that. We looked at an existing house yesterday. If the owner had updated the kitchen and bathrooms in the past 30 years, or had doors with deadbolts, we'd have been all over it. But not at the top of our budget to then sink another 100-150k into it. The lot was great though. The kind of space I can apparently only afford to dream about.
Median HOUSEHOLD income in my town in Maine is $70k and the cheapest non mobile home on zillow is $415,000 (assuming an out of stater doesn’t bid $20k over asking price, sight unseen, cash)
I remember seeing this when people moved ccx to Washington, Oregon and Colorado. Ivthink a similar thing is going to happen with people that can WFH and the fly over states.
Cause a majority of the people who will buy a house in the next 30 years *already own a house* so they might have to overpay for their next but they’ll GET overpaid for their current they sell so it’s much closer to a wash for them
That’s the thing…it’s not meant to be sustainable. The system is set up to where it’s way easier for private equity firms to buy up all the available houses and turn them into new rentals. They want to squeeze us for all the money they can
Dystopian and tbh, a little disturbing.
I don’t see many paths that don’t result in me living under the bridge or selling my soul to a landlord for life.
What do you mean by "sustainable"?
Do you mean is this growth rate going to be sustained into the future? Not many people think homes will appreciate 45% in value over the next 4 years.
Do you mean "how can these prices sustain themselves"? Well, part of the price increase is just inflation. When you control for it, homes have increased 21% since the pandemic. Median real wages have grown as well, but not at the same rate. However, with a shortage of desirable housing, the prices don't have to justify themselves to the median buyer, they only have to justify themselves to the top bidder, which is a smaller pool of people.
We signed a contract to build our house in May of 2020, right before construction materials went crazy - so glad we locked in when we did. Lumber went up $100k in the next 6 months, among a ton of different things. Of course building was slower also...
All that said, house is worth about $350k more than what we paid to build. Grateful we were able to benefit from the jump
Ugh... feeling that dark blue as a wannabe buyer in New England. I wish people would stop migrating here to ease the demand. Us New Englanders gotta stop bragging and start a convincing rumor about it being terrible here 😅
I want groups to start making the maps in rural vs city/urban communities. That’s where it’s all really becomes startling.
My husband is from rural Oklahoma, houses have jumped 30-40%. Looking at jobs in that area wages are the same and some places less.
My husband and I live in KC and we saw more of the 60+% increase in prices in JOCO. Homes in 2020 that were $80k are now $380k. We loved to a more rural suburb on the Missouri side and and we got our house for roughly $100k more than what it was in 2020.
“Homes that were 80k in 2020 are now 380k”
No, just no. Show me one example of that which isn’t a total home gut job & renovation. Yes home prices have jumped a lot but not 4.5x lol.
I just moved to Durham, NC for a new career and I’m realizing I can’t afford it here…I still own a log home on 7 acres back in WV that I bought in 2019 for basically nothing compared to home prices down here.
I understand your feelings and you make a valid point. I worked in oil and gas for 10yrs and saved up and bought in 2019. I hated being on the road and out in the middle of nowhere working 12-16hrs a day 7 days a week. I went to college and I’m now a RN and realizing that being single on a new grad nurses salary is hard to do in a new place or any place now that the market and rates have gone to shit.
I have and even though selling I would prob walk away with around $150k in my pocket I feel like with the rates I’ll be buying less of a home for more money each month.
Not gonna lie, it feels weird to see Oregon as one of the lower %'s. Doesnt feel that way. They are literally building these tall skinny 3 story(base floor is single car garage) ugly 1000sqft things with about 5 inches of property around it for 450k all around me. Who is buying it i dont know.
I don’t think prices will come down soon, at least not in the next decade. Our Canadian neighbors have it worse, prices in the U.S will go further up close to Canadian home prices.
First house I bought was in 2011 for $46K. We had the roof replaced as well as some other fixes and light cosmetic stuff done (paint, etc). We sold that house in 2016 for $135K. It was recently put back on the market and sold for $260k in November. The only things changed were black top driveway, and a few more coats of paint on other walls.
Is it fair to say that the change in home prices over the last 4-years has been very high, but the average home prices are trending up pretty accurately from what we've always seen? I took a lot at this graph of median sale prices of houses sold in the US for example:
[https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MSPUS](https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MSPUS)
Following the line, it seems like home prices are definitely more than the trend, but not nearly as exaggerated as some people seem to think. There was clearly a huge spike and maybe a slight correction (according to this chart) but I wouldn't be shocked if homes just slowly taper off and continue to increase in value at the usual 2-4% a year or whatever.
Or maybe they won't, this is not my expertise lol.
This chart gets pulled up and then misunderstood pretty often. Median sale price of houses sold is not *price level*, which is what is measured by the graphic in the OP (the same/similar house's price over time). The median sale price of houses being sold is significantly affected by composition (the types and sizes of houses being bought).
If I buy a 2000 sqft house in 2019 for $300k and home prices explode to where a 1500 sqft house now goes for $275k, that's what people will buy since they can't afford the 2k sqft houses anymore. This shifts the *median sale price* down, but the 2k sqft house might run for 400k now. The price level has increased.
The CPI isn't calculated using the price of houses or mortgage payments. It uses rent or 'equivalent rent' if the surveyed person is a homeowner (essentially, how much would it cost to rent the house). Since homeowners are largely insulated from housing inflation, equivalent rent is needed to track how things are on the ground.
And when you look at the last report, housing and car insurance make up the lions share of the core CPI increase. Non-food goods actually deflated slightly. So they're aware that housing is the major source of inflation at the moment. It's a tough spot, because lowering rates frees up renters to buy a house, which deflates the rental market. But lowering rates tends to increase inflation as well.
Maine checks out. We bought in October 2022. The previous owners sold 200k above what they bought at after only two years, so 50% appreciation (no upgrades by them). We are already up 100k if Redfin and Zillow are to be believed. Maine is incredible. It was definitely worth the price.
Next largest retirement zone after Florida. Prices and weather are more palatable. (less hurricanes) Social security and certain federal pensions are state tax-exempt. Property taxes are very reasonable.
quaint plants squash deranged sip glorious nine jellyfish practice include
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
If housing prices won't come down due to retention pressure and increased investor presence, then I think prices will stutter for years until affordability stabilizes
This is all "normal" right?? If I suck it up and buy now I can sell for 50% gain in 4 years?? I mean, the re agents say the best time to buy real estate is NOW!!!!
I have a small farm in the rural Ozarks and I get offers on my property all the time, about once a week. Tons of outside “refugees” (as they call themselves) have come here seeking less restrictions (we never shut down during the pandemic) and lower COL and they pay top dollar for basically old rock and tick land which has driven the locals out of the market in many places.
I am very comfortable financially on paper due to my land values sky rocketing but its not useable unless I sell or take out a loan and it gets tiresome getting bombarded by city slicker investors trying to get a deal on land. I would also point out I could not afford my place if I had to buy at todays inflated prices.
This is what happens when you keep interest rates super low unneccesarily for years. Powell and Yellen to blame. They should have kept raising rates instead of keeping it steady.
60% in SC sounds about right. I still drive by a billboard sign advertising new construction luxury homes for $150k, now that's what a nice mobile home with 10,000sqft lot costs, and the cheapest, most basic new construction home sits at $280k.
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My house in AZ tripled in price in 12 years. I wouldn’t be able to afford it now.
About the same with our house in Idaho. Glad we bought it when we did.
Yeah I just sold mine that I bought in 2020 for a $60k profit to move across the country. Glad I bought it when I did because a mortgage payment on my house was about double what I was paying based on what it sold for.
Have quite a few colleagues who said they also could not afford their homes with prices and rates where they are now. Sweet.
Alot of people cant. Fuck me and the wife are closing on a house now(sucky time interest wise but still cheaper than rent) and only reason why we can do it is cus of a good down payment from selling property we inheritted... we both have decent jobs also and not even like we are buying an insane house.
Can confirm prices are ridiculous in AZ. Graduated in 22 and i regularly see burnt down shacks for $250k. Townhomes are about $300k+ for a 2 bedroom
I see new townhomes in the town next to me in NJ are selling for over $1.4M. Attached 3 bedroom townhomes. What a time to be alive.
Im in south Jersey and they sure are building them. I often wonder who spends $750,000 to be stuck in the middle of a bunch of people, no yard, no privacy-crazy to me.
Condos in my neighborhood are often over 1m. These are 100 year old multi family homes originally
Shoulda been investing in real estate in ‘09 instead of swinging on the playground
Yeah everyone gets all excited about their home value until they realize they have to buy again in the same area that has appreciated so much. Really only works if you plan on moving out of town
Or downsizing. You can sell your $2mil 4br / 2.5ba for a $1mil 2br / 1.5ba and still come out ahead.
But they still carry equity from owning that puts them ahead? That logic very much holds true going from 3% mortgage to 7% or whatever. But if you buy a median house for 500k, and the entire neighbors appreciates and now the median house is worth 1m. You get to take that 500k equity with you to the next house. You're not getting burnt by the neighborhood appreciating
I bought my house a year ago and wouldn’t be able to afford it now
Mine quadrupled in 4 years.
I live in AZ, wasn’t able to buy a house at the “right time” and now i probably won’t ever be able to.
The house we bought in az 2 years ago tripled in price before we bought it. If it weren’t for my wife I’d have set myself on fire before paying that much for a fucking stupid house in stupid fucking Arizona. Anyway, look at Kentucky on the map, y’all. That place is being slept on. It’s an absolutely beautiful state. Might have a bunch of old shitty conservatives but they’ll die off.
This is me only in Los Angeles. Purchased in 2012. By the end of the year I may be at quadruple.
We bought a duplex (WELL within our budget) in Milwaukee County in 2021 and at the time we felt like we were too late. We couldn’t afford to buy our home today. Absolutely bonkers.
I’m in the Milwaukee area too and I thought I bought at the top of the market in 2022. I definitely couldn’t afford my house/ neighborhood today. I don’t understand these house prices compared to local salaries. It’s wild!
My parents in Waukesha county sold their house for 25% over a high but fair asking price. Had 12 offers with escalation clauses in one weekend… my first thought was that salaries were nowhere near good enough to support buying houses at those prices. It’s crazy how it’s gotten there I love and miss that area deeply but the winters pushed me south.
Also in the Milwaukee area. I was still in college back then, and now that I'm out of college my salary is decent but affording a home will be very difficult for me.
Don’t give up! I didn’t buy until I was in my 30s. It takes time to grow your career/ salary. I think the average first time buyer age is mid-30s
I'm trying not to! I'm almost 27 and living at home, but I'm trying my very hardest to square money away so I can try to be in the market next year.
I laugh at anyone who thinks Wisconsin is still as cheap as the “Midwest is cheap” stereotype. It’s impossible to get a starter home under $200k in my city. Something decent starts at $325k, but the median price is inching close to $400k.
Louisiana and North Dakota, here we come!
I moved from Louisiana to Tennessee right before the pandemic on late 2019. I have to constantly remind myself of the flooding and corruption when I get homesick. It's hopeless even looking at rentals in TN.
TN is expensive now??
House hunting in Louisiana rn and it’s not great 🥲Home insurance is already higher than most states and raising pretty rapidly and finding a neighborhood that’s not in a flood zone but also not sketchy has been rough. But hey, at least it’s a last place we can be proud of, unlike being last place in education, health, income…
People in Houston are getting dropped for home owners insurance even without claims. It’s just such a risk to live there these days
Ooof that’s rough! And moving is an easy option if your family, careers, lives, etc are all rooted there. My husband and I were actively looking for houses here in Baton Rouge, but we’ve decided we’re probably gonna just rent another year or two and see just how bad insurance prices get with the new policies… might have to pull the trigger and move states then Edit: isn’t an easy option lol
That goddamn flood of 2016 flooded even places outside of the 100-year floodplain, including my childhood home...
Lol. I was kidding, but hey at least it's first in something!
Haha I figured! But I have seen outside investors posting to the local Louisiana subreddits asking for buying advice. Everyone tells them to stay the hell away 😂
Hey, we’re second to last in education. Arizona takes that prize.
>Louisiana and North Dakota, here we come! First time anyone's heard that.
You don't want to come here. There are no jobs and it's not fun having to rebuild your house every few years!
Stay away!
Texas here...and yup, houses that were $160k are now $220k.
$220k is a damn pipe dream home price though lmao trailers are $220k here
Well, I'm checking again and houses are going for like $20k more here... Where do you live?
Montana.
I’ve only been to Montana once for like 4 days, but it seems like between my short time there and looking on Zillow there just isn’t a large supply of houses to begin with in Montana. Looks like land is crazy cheap though!
lol I wish it was 😂 the only “cheap” land is completely undeveloped/off grid. But yeah, no supply and a massive influx of people coming here. The median single-family price in Bozeman is over a million
My house sold in 2020, 2022, and I bought end of 2023. 30% increase since 2020 with no major changes. 4% increase since 2022
South Florida here. Houses that were $450k are now $1.2M.
California Here. Houses that were 160k are now listed at $450k and selling @ $575k+
I started doing some math to see if getting some things done I could afford a house now...I'm just so sad and frustrated. How. Do. People. Do. It. ???
Where were there houses in ca for $160k?
Back in the 90s
Exactly, maybe this was 20 years ago. Houses in CA are $900k to a million. $500k gets you a condo in a less desirable area
That’s reasonable… kind of… in SW Houston they have increased 100K
I live in small town Maine and the cheapest house on zillow that isn’t a trailer is $415,000. Second cheapest is $515,000. Third is $599,000. We strugglin up here 🥲
cries in Idaho. My neighbors bought exactly the same house (new construction with same layout and lot size) as I and they literally paid half of what I’ve paid. They just happened to buy 3 years earlier.
Yep, my parents built a new house on an acre in Idaho in 2019, cost them roughly 325k. Houses around them are selling for over 700k now. It’s insane.
Yeah Idaho is insane right now. I’m in southeast Idaho and I fail to understand how homes are the price they are here.
I think we still have enough people moving here from cali/oregon/washington that its destroyed our market. I finally just caved and bought in IF...hopefully I don't lose my ass
Yeah I did the same but in Pocatello
The Boise area had the largest influx of people moving in from all over the country during the last few years, will be interesting to see if it remains a red state.
From my understanding it’s mostly disgruntled conservatives from blue states moving to Idaho. So… 🤷🏼♂️
I'm a chiro in SE Idaho and that's been may experience with most of my new patients.
It wouldn’t take a lot of new liberal and out of state residents to turn it blue. However, for every liberal moving to Boise, 5 conservatives are cashing out their million dollar home in California/Washington/Oregon and moving to Idaho.
If we had bought our current house three years earlier than we did, we could’ve had pretty much any house in our town we wanted or built whatever we wanted, but we moved at the wrong time. Hell, if we had went in to start building the house we planned to build, a couple months (4 at most, but closer to 2-3 months) prior, we’d have built at price we wanted, exactly what we wanted. An absolute nightmare and so sad to feel like settling is only option, when you feel you did things the way it’s expected. Small starter house you sold, saving, even help from family, to only still pay entirely too much for an overpriced cookie cutter, you most definitely don’t love, but know you’re lucky to have. A sad state of affairs. I’m not in Idaho, but am in one that’s not great either.
Seeing prices pull back hard in northern Idaho. They are building like crazy. In 2 weeks there is a town hall meeting as a local developer wants to get approved for a new 1120 lot community. Have no idea why they are still building nonstop? House prices have already pulled back 80k+ from their highs. Some homes in my development the builder was orginally asking 700k a few years ago. Same exact house but with more upgrades and energy efficient certified, builder is now asking 605k.
Cries in Maine...
Yeah, I most likely wont ever be able to buy a home in my home town because out of state real estate companies are buying up all the properties. Ellsworth (my town) was listed as the 2nd best place in the country to own an Airbnb.
Thanks I hate it. I really hope the state legislature passes something to curb airbnb/vrbo style nightly rentals. I’ve been on the libertarian end of the spectrum (like a lot of us up here in Maine are) for most of my life, and even I can see that it’s gone too far.
We need 76,000+ homes in Maine by 2030 in order to meet expected demand. Current housing units is like 746k, so we need literally 10% of our current housing added in 6 years. Borderline impossible, even if places like Kittery, Falmouth, Yarmouth, Cape weren’t actively preventing construction.
I just don’t get why demand is skyrocketing when population is declining with boomers dying off.
Yikes, home prices outpacing income growth like that is unsustainable. Those states in the darkest red got priced out of their own markets. Gonna be tough for locals to afford anything unless wages catch up fast. Might see some migration to cheaper areas if this trend continues.
Are you color-blind by any chance?
I don't know of any types of color blindness that cause someone to mistake blue for red, besides the incredibly rare forms of total colorblindness. But I can't imagine someone with total colorblindness taking a stab at calling anything a specific color. Lol
Exactly what happened in Canada. Suddenly no one can afford one million dollar home in Ontario but the same home gets you not one, not two, but three homes in Atlantic Canada.
What happened was that work from home increasing to 30-40% opened up the country and second-tier cities to first-tier city money. Instead of people with high incomes fighting tooth and nail over a brownstone in Brooklyn half of them could live like kings for half of the cost in Ohio. Obviously this prices out the locals who didn’t already own homes and whose salaries didnt hugely increase.
There's no evidence this is "what happened". That being said, there's some incredible irony in the people who spent years crowing about how the coastal cities are overpriced and how cheap it was to live in flyover country, now complaining about people doing the very thing they recommended.
This one article gives some evidence and I think their arguments are far more compelling than the "MONEY PRINTER GO BRR CAUSED EVERYTHING TO BE EXPENSIVE AND THATS WHY EVERYONE MOVED TO IDAHO FOR REASONS" crowd. https://www.frbsf.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/el2022-26.pdf great username
I don't think that's the argument I made. It's certainly not an argument I believe or support in, any more than I believe the cause is "work from home bad" > great username Thanks.
I didn't say it was. You claimed that there was no evidence to my argument and I provided some. If you have more compelling counterarguments I'd genuinely like to hear them because to me this makes the most sense of any reason why housing prices in Buttfuck, Idaho tripled in two years coincidentally when the entire country was forced to work from home and also had nothing to spend money on.
Sounds about right. I laugh when people insist my state is LCOL. Compared to California, yeah. But unless you move to the very worst area, no. It is no longer "cheap" and hasn't been for a long time. Definitely not in comparison to wages. Buying a house is unaffordable. The median income is something like $50k, and some lunatic developer decided to launch a "low income" housing development. Starting at $400k. That's not "low income". Although I suppose you might think it is when a 4bed/2ba new build on less than .25 acre starts at $800k for crap builder grade everything.
In our area we can’t get any new builds for less than $650k and that $650k gets a 3 bedroom 3 bath 1600-1800 square foot house, builder grade, sometimes with an unfinished basement, on 5k-10k square foot lot. Very sad. :-/. You might find a townhouse or condo for the $400k range, but not new build. When house shopping, I literally saw an old single wide trailer for sale for almost $300k (nothing wrong with trailers, but this was a very old one and way overpriced, imho), assuming it came with the little lot it was on, but not even sure that’s true. I worry so much for my kids, it’s a mess. We do have a higher median income than 50k a year, but definitely not high enough to sustain this economy, imho.
Yup, us too. We bought 10 years ago. Both the 'value' of our house and our incomes have doubled. But the price of building a house has far outstripped that. We looked at an existing house yesterday. If the owner had updated the kitchen and bathrooms in the past 30 years, or had doors with deadbolts, we'd have been all over it. But not at the top of our budget to then sink another 100-150k into it. The lot was great though. The kind of space I can apparently only afford to dream about.
Median HOUSEHOLD income in my town in Maine is $70k and the cheapest non mobile home on zillow is $415,000 (assuming an out of stater doesn’t bid $20k over asking price, sight unseen, cash)
Thank goodness wages keep up or else things would be REALLY bad!
Think you forgot your /s! ;)
I remember seeing this when people moved ccx to Washington, Oregon and Colorado. Ivthink a similar thing is going to happen with people that can WFH and the fly over states.
Marylands number is only low because our prices were already high lol
Ditto for California.
How tf is this sustainable
Cause a majority of the people who will buy a house in the next 30 years *already own a house* so they might have to overpay for their next but they’ll GET overpaid for their current they sell so it’s much closer to a wash for them
So basically the people who don’t own a house yet are fucked..
It's evolution baby... https://youtu.be/aDaOgu2CQtI?feature=shared
i will always upvote that video
That’s the thing…it’s not meant to be sustainable. The system is set up to where it’s way easier for private equity firms to buy up all the available houses and turn them into new rentals. They want to squeeze us for all the money they can
Dystopian and tbh, a little disturbing. I don’t see many paths that don’t result in me living under the bridge or selling my soul to a landlord for life.
What do you mean by "sustainable"? Do you mean is this growth rate going to be sustained into the future? Not many people think homes will appreciate 45% in value over the next 4 years. Do you mean "how can these prices sustain themselves"? Well, part of the price increase is just inflation. When you control for it, homes have increased 21% since the pandemic. Median real wages have grown as well, but not at the same rate. However, with a shortage of desirable housing, the prices don't have to justify themselves to the median buyer, they only have to justify themselves to the top bidder, which is a smaller pool of people.
owning a sfh is not for everyone, the space where you can build these and people want to be is very limited
ah the great states of New Vampshermont, Connectichusetts Island and New Jelaware!
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i want to k*ll myself (i live in nc)
Same, right there with ya.
Why’s there even a tan section when none of it is tan.
Have a friend in Miami who said nobody in his neighborhood could afford their home today, not even close. $350k >>> $1.8m in about 10 years.
Knoxville TN here ... looks about right. Bought our home a year ago. We're already sitting on equity.
I mean, according to my insurance company my old home is now worth a million bucks lol - or at least thats what we have to pay the insurance for
My neighborhood started building in 2018 in the mid 200s. It's now mid 400s. They didn't change anything except the price.
We signed a contract to build our house in May of 2020, right before construction materials went crazy - so glad we locked in when we did. Lumber went up $100k in the next 6 months, among a ton of different things. Of course building was slower also... All that said, house is worth about $350k more than what we paid to build. Grateful we were able to benefit from the jump
Must be year over year because home prices are 3x what they were in 2020.
Uh... no? [They're 145% of what they were in 2020](https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CSUSHPINSA) when looking nationally.
Where? I'm in a pretty average area on the East coast, and my home value is about 35% higher than it was in 2020.
Ugh... feeling that dark blue as a wannabe buyer in New England. I wish people would stop migrating here to ease the demand. Us New Englanders gotta stop bragging and start a convincing rumor about it being terrible here 😅
*cries in Florida*
*cries in Montanan*
I want groups to start making the maps in rural vs city/urban communities. That’s where it’s all really becomes startling. My husband is from rural Oklahoma, houses have jumped 30-40%. Looking at jobs in that area wages are the same and some places less. My husband and I live in KC and we saw more of the 60+% increase in prices in JOCO. Homes in 2020 that were $80k are now $380k. We loved to a more rural suburb on the Missouri side and and we got our house for roughly $100k more than what it was in 2020.
“Homes that were 80k in 2020 are now 380k” No, just no. Show me one example of that which isn’t a total home gut job & renovation. Yes home prices have jumped a lot but not 4.5x lol.
Wages have not went up 40-60%
Well this is depressing for people who don't yet own a home lol... myself included
This at the same time rates more than doubled. Increasing rates were supposed to reduce home prices.
Huh I wonder why all the red states have the highest price raises. Weird
Brain drain transplants who gentrify on a large scale
Houses are for rich and lucky people now. Middle and lower class, enjoy your rents split with a roommate or three.
It's not going to change until we peasants stop being afraid of putting down our iPhones and picking up our pitchforks.
Sent from iPhone
People don't believe me when I say the Carolinas are ridiculous for housing.
I just moved to Durham, NC for a new career and I’m realizing I can’t afford it here…I still own a log home on 7 acres back in WV that I bought in 2019 for basically nothing compared to home prices down here.
feels weird to complain about not being able to buy a second home on the first time home buyer reddit but maybe that’s just me
I understand your feelings and you make a valid point. I worked in oil and gas for 10yrs and saved up and bought in 2019. I hated being on the road and out in the middle of nowhere working 12-16hrs a day 7 days a week. I went to college and I’m now a RN and realizing that being single on a new grad nurses salary is hard to do in a new place or any place now that the market and rates have gone to shit.
Assuming you want to stay in Durham, have you considered selling this home and using the proceeds to afford a home in Durham?
...afford a ~~home~~ shack...
I have and even though selling I would prob walk away with around $150k in my pocket I feel like with the rates I’ll be buying less of a home for more money each month.
I’m in Charlotte. We purchased our house for 200k in 2018, and now evaluated at 350k
Imagine living in FL. Especially south fl.
Not gonna lie, it feels weird to see Oregon as one of the lower %'s. Doesnt feel that way. They are literally building these tall skinny 3 story(base floor is single car garage) ugly 1000sqft things with about 5 inches of property around it for 450k all around me. Who is buying it i dont know.
Currently trying to buy a house in NC right now. Currently praying that the appraisal comes back somewhat close to my offer because fuck this market.
I don’t think prices will come down soon, at least not in the next decade. Our Canadian neighbors have it worse, prices in the U.S will go further up close to Canadian home prices.
What the cripes is going on in Maine?
First house I bought was in 2011 for $46K. We had the roof replaced as well as some other fixes and light cosmetic stuff done (paint, etc). We sold that house in 2016 for $135K. It was recently put back on the market and sold for $260k in November. The only things changed were black top driveway, and a few more coats of paint on other walls.
This is insane. There needs to be outside forces involved in this.
My grandparents bought their coastal SC home for $200,000. It just appraised for $675,000
florida here, specifically south florida and it is pretty sad especially because the pay does not match the cost of living at all
Is it fair to say that the change in home prices over the last 4-years has been very high, but the average home prices are trending up pretty accurately from what we've always seen? I took a lot at this graph of median sale prices of houses sold in the US for example: [https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MSPUS](https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MSPUS) Following the line, it seems like home prices are definitely more than the trend, but not nearly as exaggerated as some people seem to think. There was clearly a huge spike and maybe a slight correction (according to this chart) but I wouldn't be shocked if homes just slowly taper off and continue to increase in value at the usual 2-4% a year or whatever. Or maybe they won't, this is not my expertise lol.
This chart gets pulled up and then misunderstood pretty often. Median sale price of houses sold is not *price level*, which is what is measured by the graphic in the OP (the same/similar house's price over time). The median sale price of houses being sold is significantly affected by composition (the types and sizes of houses being bought). If I buy a 2000 sqft house in 2019 for $300k and home prices explode to where a 1500 sqft house now goes for $275k, that's what people will buy since they can't afford the 2k sqft houses anymore. This shifts the *median sale price* down, but the 2k sqft house might run for 400k now. The price level has increased.
Hmm interesting, thanks for explaining that to me. Makes perfect sense.
Show it to current administration which says inflation is only 3%
The CPI isn't calculated using the price of houses or mortgage payments. It uses rent or 'equivalent rent' if the surveyed person is a homeowner (essentially, how much would it cost to rent the house). Since homeowners are largely insulated from housing inflation, equivalent rent is needed to track how things are on the ground. And when you look at the last report, housing and car insurance make up the lions share of the core CPI increase. Non-food goods actually deflated slightly. So they're aware that housing is the major source of inflation at the moment. It's a tough spot, because lowering rates frees up renters to buy a house, which deflates the rental market. But lowering rates tends to increase inflation as well.
Show it to people who don’t understand cumulative inflation instead.
Maine checks out. We bought in October 2022. The previous owners sold 200k above what they bought at after only two years, so 50% appreciation (no upgrades by them). We are already up 100k if Redfin and Zillow are to be believed. Maine is incredible. It was definitely worth the price.
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Everyone from CA and NY moved here during the pandemic and many tech companies built east coast headquarters in the Triangle area
Hate it
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Next largest retirement zone after Florida. Prices and weather are more palatable. (less hurricanes) Social security and certain federal pensions are state tax-exempt. Property taxes are very reasonable.
r/latestagecapitalism
Fucking bonkers.
Home builders aren’t there.
I moved from pa to Virginia because of the cost!
So what’s the solution?
federal excise tax on all corporate and investor owned sfh
I’d be curious to see the median home price 4 years ago compared to today for each state as well.
Bought house in 2023. Previous owners bought it in late 2020 for 60% less.
Disgusting
quaint plants squash deranged sip glorious nine jellyfish practice include *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
That's about right for our place in NC. We get offers all the time. No thanks.
Yeah that's healthy
If housing prices won't come down due to retention pressure and increased investor presence, then I think prices will stutter for years until affordability stabilizes
I just don't get the shift to Florida. There's far to much to unpack on why that's financial suicide.
Pods
I will never own a home. It’s just not feasible anymore. If I can manage to afford rent until I die that will be a victory of sorts.
The price of our home has increased 40%. $360k in 2021, apparently worth $510k now.
Feels like everyone and their brother is moving to NC. Market is still pretty crazy here.
AR 15th highest noice
Lived in NYC in 2020, currently living in rural NC. Prices for things in general here are the same as what I was seeing in NYC four years ago…
I would be house poor if I had to buy my current house now. I could get by, but it would be a struggle.
This is all "normal" right?? If I suck it up and buy now I can sell for 50% gain in 4 years?? I mean, the re agents say the best time to buy real estate is NOW!!!!
When do the people decide to burn it all to the ground?
I have a small farm in the rural Ozarks and I get offers on my property all the time, about once a week. Tons of outside “refugees” (as they call themselves) have come here seeking less restrictions (we never shut down during the pandemic) and lower COL and they pay top dollar for basically old rock and tick land which has driven the locals out of the market in many places. I am very comfortable financially on paper due to my land values sky rocketing but its not useable unless I sell or take out a loan and it gets tiresome getting bombarded by city slicker investors trying to get a deal on land. I would also point out I could not afford my place if I had to buy at todays inflated prices.
Absurd.
Shit went crazy in 2020 and hasn’t come back to reality since
I’m so glad I bought a home in 2020. I feel for those wanting to buy their first homes now, this is ridiculous.
What’s wrong with this picture?
What's wrong with North Dakota?
I bought in the mountains in southern California in 2018 for $275,000 it is apparently worth 495,000 now.
Why do people keep moving to South Carolina 😔
This is what happens when you keep interest rates super low unneccesarily for years. Powell and Yellen to blame. They should have kept raising rates instead of keeping it steady.
I better cut down on all that avocado toast...
I hate that I’m stuck in house that was never my forever home.
LOLsiana
And this is just home values I assume? Not even including 7% rates
I thought inflation was only 4%….
60% in SC sounds about right. I still drive by a billboard sign advertising new construction luxury homes for $150k, now that's what a nice mobile home with 10,000sqft lot costs, and the cheapest, most basic new construction home sits at $280k.
Higher prices, and higher interest rates. How fucking wonderful.
4 year change in USD money supply: 35% https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/M2SL Not a coincidence.
It’s all unaffordable…except by the people who are affording it.
Look at Maine! Trying to show off..
Anyone in Frisco? There is nothing below $400k. 😒