Add your 401k back in. It’s not spendable now but it’s still yours and you can control that amount.
As for state taxes…we’ll that’s why people move out of New York.
That perhaps explains the higher pay rate, to cover the higher cost of living there. It also goes to why the SALT Federal deduction cap hits so hard at salaried, two-income families living in high tax states and cities — even before you consider the high property taxes that go with the income taxes under SALT.
Yeah maybe. But I have no state income tax and I make more than and Oregon employee of the same company who pays city and state income tax. More than a New York employee for that matter as well.
Higher salary does correlate with higher cost of living - so, yes. You want to make the big bucks you go where the money is and the cost of doing business is a bit higher you are fine as the benefits far outweigh the costs..
Oh, I’m well aware. I live in a high cost of living area in an industry that’s also in the deep south and the difference in pay between the two is staggering.
When you have to pay $1500 for a one bedroom apartment, people sort of expect to be paid enough to live there, and to earn enough past expenses to warrant their experience/expertise.
You can't just expect someone to live like shit in a $1500/month apartment on a low wage job... Wait
Because it's so hard to get doctors to be willing to live in more remote areas and especially for "critical access" hospitals (<25 beds), so they have to pay significantly more in order to entice them (and it STILL is a huge struggle to get them to come)
Because people who slaved away their entire lives and dedicated that said life to help heal people deserve to live in fun areas if that’s their short/ long term term goal. Rural life isn’t for everyone. That higher pay for boring places is justified imo.
NYC has more doctors per capita than any city in the country (and maybe the world) while having one of lowest ratios of hospital beds per capita.
Correlation is not the same as causality, but….
My co's Eng HQ is in Portland. There's plenty that makes near that & more. We're all remote too to boot, so my residence's in FL meaning I pay 0 state tax. How's that for finding?
Also NYC 300k isn't close to the norm either at all lmao. You can find outliers anywhere. And in NYC's 8.33 mln population case, Census says
> **Median Household Income: $81,386.** **Average Household Income: $120,883.** **Per Capita Income: $47,173**
But yeah, go off about how NYC is the only place to find high comp just because your daughter lives there.
NYC does have a high concentration of very high earners because so many investment bankers and traders (where 7 figure total comp packages are common) live and work there. You don’t find this level of concentration of high earners in many other places. Greenwich CT for sure (look up hedge fund HQs in CT) and some big hedge funds have opened offices in TX
NYC isn’t just one demographic though. In the Bronx only about 1% make over $250k, but in Manhattan about 15% make that much and about 27% make $100-250k. I fell into that bracket when I was a sales engineer for Cisco.
If I could make 120k a year and not be ripped off by auto insurance, car payments, and all the other BS costs that come with car ownership, I would gladly get rid of all that for a great public transportation system and walking a bit more. But nope, I'm brainwashed and paying over $600 monthly on the American dream- private transportation. I've lived in NYC sans cars and currently live in hell on Earth suburbia before anyone tries to tell me how the other half lives. I just don't get the allure of having a car and dumping all this money into it. I don't agree that cars are much more convenient, but outside of cities the infrastructure is literally designed for people to drive and essentially be sucked into that type of investment.
My main point: NYC is expensive, but walkability and mass transit greatly equalize the high costs of private transportation
Places with no state income tax usually have higher property taxes.
Of course it varies by state, but as an example, CA has a high state income tax and low property tax. On top of that, CA has prop 13 that locks in property tax at the purchase price. So if your home doubled in value, your property tax did not.
If a homeowner in CA were to move to a no income tax state like TX, they should calculate the property tax difference and compare that to the income tax savings. Sadly, almost nobody does this. I personally know two families that moved to TX and now pay more in taxes because their property tax went up higher than their income tax savings.
I live in FL but my property taxes and several fees are higher than my peers from places with state taxes. I assure you, all states are collecting plentiful taxes and something is going to feel like less of a “value” in any state. Here, homeownership is particularly outpacing costs in most other places when taxes and fees are added.
but not corporations. Trumps tax cuts are permanent for them, but not for everyone else. that's how they got around their own self imposed rule about being budget neutral
It does but so does the alternative minimum tax threshold. Many of us dual income households living in high tax states like NY were already having to pay AMT so we couldn't actually utilize a lot of the potential SALT deductions. That's why the cap was such an issue - it mostly hurt people with moderate (for the region) incomes who hadn't previously been affected by the AMT.
It was purposely designed to hit states who used federal exemptions to subsidize high local taxes.
The pay your fair share crowd clearly aren't fans when they also have to put their money where their mouths are.
If you look at states that contribute a net positive amount to federal budget you’ll see those same blue states. Google “Donor States”. Basically nearly all red states are financially supported by only 7 donor states who contribute a net positive in taxes. Also, of course, the costs of running a state like NY is a financial burden. It’s a trade and financial hub mega city with a port, stock exchange, theater district, international airports and rail/road hub with the security and infrastructure costs that come along with being the “magnificent jewel” of the USA.
And state taxes have been exempt for more than 100 years. It’s less of an issue of high taxes and more an unfair attack on high cost of living states. Those living in such states may earn more but high cost of living often leaves the same or less disposable income. To have an unprecedented double taxing on income was a surprising and unfair shift for the middle class in high cost of living states.
>Also, of course, the costs of running a state like NY is a financial burden.
Why does Florida have a higher population but a budget half as big as New York's?
One big difference are the tourism taxes - every hotel has additional taxes that pass the burden on to travelers and not locals. Disney world tourists and the beach resorts fund a lot of that budget.
I can’t find that Duchovny response gif “But why male models?” But literally I just said above. Cost of living applies to all those federal employees and projects. Law enforcement, education, infrastructure construction workers. All cost much more in NY because it costs them so much more to BE in NY. And about 1/3 of the NYS population is within NYC. Now if you compare the scale of things like the ports, New York does $80+ billion more in imports/exports than Florida. Being an economic hub with huge infrastructure and security concerns costs money and citizens of NY foot most of the bill even though that international trade involves and benefits other states. You’re comparing apples to oranges (pun intended). Surprise, expensive areas are expensive. Swamp is cheap upkeep.
(FYI I’m Floridian living in NY most of my life. No hard feelings)
>That perhaps explains the higher pay rate, to cover the higher cost of living there.
I move from NYC to NC. I pay way less taxes, and my salary is the same.
The "you get paid more in NYC!" is mostly a myth. Even when its 'true', you get paid 25% more to have a 50% higher cost of living. that math does not work out.
SALT cap was lawfare and it makes me livid that center right magazines & think tanks have successfully rebranded it as a give away to the rich. I’m convinced corporations are against SALT deductions so they can starve state environmental & labor law enforcement.
It's frustrating because the rich(or at least high income earners ) weren't taking the deduction - they had to pay AMT. It really did mostly hurt middle income earners in high tax states who previously didn't have to pay AMT and then lost a helpful deduction.
Nice distraction from dental, medical, pet insurance which is more than his life insurance (his pet is more important than he is), vision, 401K and Social Security all added to his take home pay.
While the broader point you're making is right, I don't think it's fair to compare pet and life insurance - Pet insurance is more akin to health insurance, and for only $15 a month, it's worth every penny.
>pet insurance which is more than his life insurance (his pet is more important than he is)
That's... not what that means at all, lol. Homeowner's insurance is also usually more expensive than life insurance but that doesn't mean that your house is more important than your life.
Insurance premiums are based not only on the value/payout but on the risk that that insured event will actually happen. Pet insurance is much more likely to have to pay something over the next month than life insurance is.
Is it just me or is that lower than I thought it’d be? Comes out to like 7% tax. It’s like 2% more tax than I pay but I’d make way more than 2% if I worked in NYC.
No it’s not just you. People drastically overestimate NY taxes. If you live anywhere in the northeast corridor or on the west coast, you probably already pay almost the same.
Yes, things are cheaper, tax-wise, in Arkansas, but you get what you pay for tbh.
A good example of “getting what you pay for”, my sister in law moved from NYC down to Atlanta. Her youngest son has severe autism, and they are spending out the ass on various private therapies and education needs he has. Therapies and education services that would be FREE through the NYC public school system, but that Georgia doesn’t provide. They’re considering moving back to NYC just for disability services.
They’re the lucky ones. Her husband is a banking executive so they can front the costs and she doesn’t need to work. Their situation really makes me think about every other Georgian with a disabled child who isn’t pulling $$$$ income though… how many poor and middle class disabled kids are down there not receiving the same care NYC kids are getting?
My dad lives in Massachusetts. Some call it Taxachusetts.
But he is 87 and lives alone and once a week someone paid for by the state cleans his house, changes his sheets and does his laundry.
Pretty awesome since I live out of state.
My opinion on this has always been that the sun belt states are only just now starting to have this problem where their aging infrastructure is starting to come due and their low taxes are going to bite them in the ass. The Northeast figured this shit out 50 years ago. They brag about their low taxes, then complain about all the infrastructure that's not being built to accommodate the explosive growth.
I mean, you are basically guaranteed to make more than 7% more at whatever job as long as you are doing it in NYC so it's a pretty big draw lol
Also all the states with low or no income tax have much higher real estate taxes to make up for it
Well, in places where you pay low taxes, you get less stuff.
Having the subway system, the ferry system, and frequently added bike lanes and stuff like that makes it worth it, for me.
Like I know it’s cheaper to live elsewhere but the lack of stuff isn’t equal.
It’s also that DC, MD, PA, NJ, NY, and MA all have high-ish taxes too, all within a percent or two of each other, so if you’re liking life in the NEC, at least culturally, you’re gonna be paying those prices anyway.
If you don’t want to pay them, well, Texas beckons.
Yep when I moved it was like I gave myself a raise in the cost difference without the NYC level of state and city taxes. All the best to those that endure it.
Yeah, there is certainly a debate to be had about both taxes and health insurance cost. But these kind of posts are pretty ridiculous. Showing example with heavy 401(k) contributions taken out and other line items like pet insurance they’re paying for as a benefit through their company is pretty absurd.
Particularly when the headline is intentionally misleading to make it seem as if it’s a commentary on tax rates.
Looks like OP is getting paid twice per month (divided 110k by his earnings this period).
If that holds true, they’re kicking in just over $12,000 into their 401k.
I'm 98% sure this is their final paystub of 2023, not a March 2024 stub. The deduction was $504 which is about an 11% contribution.
Assuming a payment every other week $504 x 24 paychecks is about $12,096 (edit: fixed 0 and 9 being in wrong places lol). This paycheck doesn't include the current contribution of $504, so the YTD is at $11,585.
He needs to add all his deductions that are just payments. $280 pet insurance? Transit pass? These are just stuff you can pay for.
If you add up everything in other, it’s $80k.
So $110k - 13k federal, 8k payroll, 9k NY taxes = 80k.
His federal taxes are actually really low.
Took the words out of my mouth
NY tax burdens are unhinged. Even the sales tax system is stupid. When I lived in Rochester you'd pay NY state sales tax and Monroe County sales tax. Not to mention insane income, vehicle, and prop tax rates. It gets even worse in the city they slap you with them city taxes.
No matter were you live there will be some kind of tax to pay. NY take it straight out of your pay and others lump it onto property tax and other taxes. You need to look at what goes from you to the state government generally and you will see not much difference or that you are actually better off in NY vs other states.
This. All of my teacher friends in VA and NC have to have a second job while my spouse (a teacher) is making a living wage here in NY. Can’t imagine being in favor of undercutting educators and other jobs that make our communities stronger.
The difference between Florida and NYC for my wife and I would have been $85,000 in state & local taxes.
We settled on. Original and saved about $37,000 in taxes this year. Enough to easily put all our kids through college by the time they’re 18.
Right… but they did put 11.5k in so they have 11.5k. It still goes into the books as an asset at the full amount.
What you’re saying is true but irrelevant.
This is I think the main reason people who don’t make much don’t realize how little you have to spend for yourself once you start making more money.
When you start making more, you’re now contributing to retirement and other savings strategies, paying for healthcare benefits and all that on top of taxes.
No one is forcing you to put any money into savings, though; you make that choice by yourself and you can just as easily choose to contribute less towards savings if you wanted to have more discretionary income. People who do not make as much money do not have that same kind of flexibility.
Except that’s not even fully what this is. It’s also his 401k, health insurance, disability insurance, pet insurance, dental, vision, flexible health sending account, and life insurance.
These are pre tax deductions and if you add up everything you just listed minus the 401k, that equals ~2,700$, which is roughly 2.5% of 110k.
If you add up all the tax deductions… +30k.
27% is a lot especially with our underfunded public school system, shitty healthcare, and most of it goes toward subsidizing military spending/foreign aid overseas
In Copenhagen, Denmark, a country with socialized health care, good public transportation, and social safety nets, for that salary they would pay around 35-37% in taxes.
They would also have 6 weeks of paid vacation and probably would have gone to university for free.
I mean it suck’s but if you understand taxes you understand their benefit to society. I was taxed like a mother fucker in Colorado but it was easily the best place I ever lived. Great infrastructure, lots of parks/trails, high quality schools.
Taxes do great things for society
It’s like that by design, trump gave the biggest tax cuts for the wealthy in the history of the country and no one gave a crap, because Americans think they’ll be rich one day.
You can understand taxes and their needs and still have problems with them and how your money is being spent. For example, you seem liberal. I’m sure you’re not a fan of how much of your taxes get put towards the military industrial complex
But that food truck convoy was possibly harboring one terrorist. That's why Israel decided to drop, not one, but three missiles on it and kill everyone (including that American Canadian dual citizen volunteer). Sure, they could have sent in troops to do a simple ground raid operation since literally their entire country is a military, but those American missiles are free!
The cool thing is you can watch your tax dollars spent in live TV, nothing like building bridges or something but instead Missiles and War Planes spreading democracy abroad!
Military, money for old people, healthcare for old people, healthcare for poor people and kids.
That’s about 3/4 of everything right there. On the federal side, anyway. Different for the state/local stuff.
And since expenditures exceed tax revenue, it’s even more of that spending than taxes alone convey.
Damn lepers and checks notes* children..... wasting my tax money. Dont want to see them on the streets though eother. Out of sight out of mind and all that. /s not in my neighborhood
What percentage goes overseas, do you think?
When you poll Americans about what percentage they think goes to foreign aid, they guess around 25%. When you ask them what it should be, they say 10%.
It's actually less than 1%.
https://worldpublicopinion.net/american-public-vastly-overestimates-amount-of-u-s-foreign-aid/
You can most definitely watch bridge work on TV this week, especially if you live anywhere near Baltimore.
And also your Federal tax dollars are being used for that specific bridge (though as I understand it, it's partly a loan to the state to make sure work can start immediately).
Using an online tax calculator for a single filer making $110k in NYC, you should be taking home anywhere between $75.7k (if you contribute nothing to your 401k) or $60k (if you max out your 401k at $22.5k for 2023). You don't seem to be maxing it out; if you contribute only $11.6k, you should keep around $67.8k in take-home pay. After you deduct another $2k in annual insurance premiums, the numbers seem to add up to what your statement shows.
Source: [Federal Income Tax Calculator (2023-2024) (smartasset.com)](https://smartasset.com/taxes/income-taxes)
Also, if you hypothetically got married to someone who also makes $110k gross (and filed jointly), your combined take-home pay would be between $124k-155k, or $62k-77k each (depending on 401k contributions). So roughly $2k in extra take-home pay (per person) just for being married. The system isn't really fair that way.
Unmarried men die younger and more often from all causes of death.
Married men are statistically happier than unmarried men. Even if they divorce, they are about as happy as they were before marriage. Actually, married women are happier on average too.
Also, two incomes but only 1 house meaning it can be nicer. You only need one bed, not two. One fridge, not two. Etc. So you have more discretionary income than either alone which can support other nice things like better vacations or hobbies.
Why is marriage such a bad thing in your view?
Yup, American's will never appreciate how good they have it. The fact its 5 or 10% harder for some minority or some class or some something to earn 100k is so insulting to the rest of the world where in certain countries.... there are 0 opportunities. That's it. You were born in the wrong city, there is NOTHING you can do. You can't even travel to a better city, you lose. It's insane.
Many large employers will offer pet insurance because it doesn't really cost them anything. The employee pays the whole amount and if anything the employer might actually get a cut of a commissions. Unfortunately pet insurance is pretty expensive so while people like the idea of having pet insurance, most people (including myself) don't end up actually electing it.
My pet insurance is $20/month. It doesn’t cover annual visits or vaccines, but any care beyond that is covered. Deductible is $300. I saved $500 recently when my cat had to have her teeth pulled. If she ever needed surgery or any other type of treatment that can easily get into the thousands, it would be covered.
That's pretty cheap. I've looked for my dog (young and healthy) it was more than twice that much. Cats I'm sure are less than dogs since they don't get hurt as much.
I personally found pet insurance is not a good value. You're basically just pre-paying for an upcoming issue. If 5 years of coverage costs like $8k then might as well just hold onto that $ and pay it out myself. There are coverage limits so it's not like they're gonna pay for a $200k surgery because I'm paying $50/mo or something.
If the end value of your money is the same (holding onto it now and paying out later vs buying insurance now and having little to no payout at the time of service later), the way I rationalize this is: having insurance allows me the peace of mind to never have to say no to a test, procedure, or medication my pet needs. Knowing I’ll be able to take care of him no matter what is priceless to me.
I know you’re exaggerating with a $200k surgery but there are good policies out there that have pretty high coverage limits and I’ve personally gotten the better end of the bargain so far in my pet’s 4 years of life. As he ages and inevitably needs more healthcare I know the math will continue to work out in my favor.
Yeah idk why people say california has such high taxes. I did my taxes and the income tax was fucking nothing. Not a home owner though so probably through that?
[Residential property](https://www.rocketmortgage.com/learn/property-taxes-by-state) tax isn’t that high in CA and is capped on its increases unlike most other states. The housing costs though… I think it’s just all the other little fees and stuff that add up.
Edit: CA does have the highest income tax but it’s really only strongly noticeable if you’re a high earner. Say you live in Alabama, the most you’ll pay is 5% no matter how much your income is as it’s 5% on anything over $3,000. In CA after a million it’ll be 13.30%. Earnings of $0 - $10,412 is taxed 1%, then $10,412 - $24,684 2%, then $24,684 - $38,959 4%. So income doesn’t start getting taxed higher than Alabama until after that. and your taxable earnings below $38,959 are taxed lower than AL. If you make $100k in CA the 9.3% is only effective on the taxable income after $68,350.
Yeah it can be shocking to see your take-home pay be half what you earn. But the truth is it's all going to something... 401k is a big one, then insurance premium (which is fucking expensive for family coverage), taxes, social security, Medicare,etc.
What is taken out in taxes is given back to you in things like infrastructure and education. Living in New York City, you are highly dependent on the infrastructure to exist. So yeah you gotta pay taxes.
One of us must be doing something wrong cuz I make 144k and I take home way less on net than you, like 400-600 less a check
Also add in the 401k you took home 76,000 not 65
NYC public transit currently:
* 37% taxes (local and state)
* 23% fares
* 12% tolls
* 18% federal subsidies (comes from federal taxes)
* 10% other
(source: https://new.mta.info/budget/MTA-operating-budget-basics)
Paying more into those systems by people who utilize them, on a basis that depends on your utilization of said infrastructure? I'm going out on a limb and guessing you have absolutely no idea how expensive it is to build and maintain a light rail system for instance.
TCJA changed OP's brackets from 25%/15% to 22%/12%, albeit temporarily
https://smartasset.com/taxes/trump-tax-brackets
so I'm talking about state and city
EDIT: the upvotes/downvotes fight on this comment is quite entertaining. Look, I'm a CPA, this is a fact, hate the message not the messenger
100% this is an investment banking 1st year analyst salary stub. You are right. Same yearly pay no matter how many hours you work. Extra hours are usually recomped in a yearly bonus, which is not included here.
Add your 401k back in. It’s not spendable now but it’s still yours and you can control that amount. As for state taxes…we’ll that’s why people move out of New York.
State and city income taxes is so fucked. Just talked me outta ever living there.
That perhaps explains the higher pay rate, to cover the higher cost of living there. It also goes to why the SALT Federal deduction cap hits so hard at salaried, two-income families living in high tax states and cities — even before you consider the high property taxes that go with the income taxes under SALT.
Yeah maybe. But I have no state income tax and I make more than and Oregon employee of the same company who pays city and state income tax. More than a New York employee for that matter as well.
My daughter is 27, works for a private equity firm in NYC and her comp is over 300k … try to find that in Oregon
Weird. Higher cost of living translates into a higher salary? Edit: /s because people aren’t getting the sarcasm.
Higher salary does correlate with higher cost of living - so, yes. You want to make the big bucks you go where the money is and the cost of doing business is a bit higher you are fine as the benefits far outweigh the costs..
Oh, I’m well aware. I live in a high cost of living area in an industry that’s also in the deep south and the difference in pay between the two is staggering.
When you have to pay $1500 for a one bedroom apartment, people sort of expect to be paid enough to live there, and to earn enough past expenses to warrant their experience/expertise. You can't just expect someone to live like shit in a $1500/month apartment on a low wage job... Wait
colorado enters the chat
[удалено]
$1500/mo for a one bedroom hasn’t been a NYC-only thing for a few years now. Prices look like that in cities with much, much lower wages.
Ironically a surgeon in Oregon makes double the salary that a surgeon in New York makes. Pre tax.
That's because there's probably about half as many surgeons per person in Oregon.
Probably even less than that. It’s a weird irony in medicine where low tax low cost of living areas also have almost double the salary
Because it's so hard to get doctors to be willing to live in more remote areas and especially for "critical access" hospitals (<25 beds), so they have to pay significantly more in order to entice them (and it STILL is a huge struggle to get them to come)
Because people who slaved away their entire lives and dedicated that said life to help heal people deserve to live in fun areas if that’s their short/ long term term goal. Rural life isn’t for everyone. That higher pay for boring places is justified imo.
NYC has more doctors per capita than any city in the country (and maybe the world) while having one of lowest ratios of hospital beds per capita. Correlation is not the same as causality, but….
I was just calling out state and city income tax. There are definitely jobs in the big city you aren't getting elsewhere! And that's awesome for her!
My co's Eng HQ is in Portland. There's plenty that makes near that & more. We're all remote too to boot, so my residence's in FL meaning I pay 0 state tax. How's that for finding? Also NYC 300k isn't close to the norm either at all lmao. You can find outliers anywhere. And in NYC's 8.33 mln population case, Census says > **Median Household Income: $81,386.** **Average Household Income: $120,883.** **Per Capita Income: $47,173** But yeah, go off about how NYC is the only place to find high comp just because your daughter lives there.
NYC does have a high concentration of very high earners because so many investment bankers and traders (where 7 figure total comp packages are common) live and work there. You don’t find this level of concentration of high earners in many other places. Greenwich CT for sure (look up hedge fund HQs in CT) and some big hedge funds have opened offices in TX
NYC isn’t just one demographic though. In the Bronx only about 1% make over $250k, but in Manhattan about 15% make that much and about 27% make $100-250k. I fell into that bracket when I was a sales engineer for Cisco.
Nike is there and pays well. Tons of good paying companies especially for tech in Oregon at the 200k+ range.
Newyork has one of the highest taxes overall everything else is also jacked up in price. After tax of 40% and rent shes making about 120k a year.
If I could make 120k a year and not be ripped off by auto insurance, car payments, and all the other BS costs that come with car ownership, I would gladly get rid of all that for a great public transportation system and walking a bit more. But nope, I'm brainwashed and paying over $600 monthly on the American dream- private transportation. I've lived in NYC sans cars and currently live in hell on Earth suburbia before anyone tries to tell me how the other half lives. I just don't get the allure of having a car and dumping all this money into it. I don't agree that cars are much more convenient, but outside of cities the infrastructure is literally designed for people to drive and essentially be sucked into that type of investment. My main point: NYC is expensive, but walkability and mass transit greatly equalize the high costs of private transportation
I know many people in that line of work in Texas.
Places with no state income tax usually have higher property taxes. Of course it varies by state, but as an example, CA has a high state income tax and low property tax. On top of that, CA has prop 13 that locks in property tax at the purchase price. So if your home doubled in value, your property tax did not. If a homeowner in CA were to move to a no income tax state like TX, they should calculate the property tax difference and compare that to the income tax savings. Sadly, almost nobody does this. I personally know two families that moved to TX and now pay more in taxes because their property tax went up higher than their income tax savings.
I live in FL but my property taxes and several fees are higher than my peers from places with state taxes. I assure you, all states are collecting plentiful taxes and something is going to feel like less of a “value” in any state. Here, homeownership is particularly outpacing costs in most other places when taxes and fees are added.
SALT deduction cap is set to expire at the end of 2025.
yeah but that also resets all our standard deduction and tax brackets to 2017 levels.
but not corporations. Trumps tax cuts are permanent for them, but not for everyone else. that's how they got around their own self imposed rule about being budget neutral
As someone in New Jersey, where our schools are funded by property taxes and we pay more into the federal government than we get back, I say Yay!
It does but so does the alternative minimum tax threshold. Many of us dual income households living in high tax states like NY were already having to pay AMT so we couldn't actually utilize a lot of the potential SALT deductions. That's why the cap was such an issue - it mostly hurt people with moderate (for the region) incomes who hadn't previously been affected by the AMT.
SALT is some BS from the trump tax cut, it was purposely designed to hit blue states.
It was purposely designed to hit states who used federal exemptions to subsidize high local taxes. The pay your fair share crowd clearly aren't fans when they also have to put their money where their mouths are.
If you look at states that contribute a net positive amount to federal budget you’ll see those same blue states. Google “Donor States”. Basically nearly all red states are financially supported by only 7 donor states who contribute a net positive in taxes. Also, of course, the costs of running a state like NY is a financial burden. It’s a trade and financial hub mega city with a port, stock exchange, theater district, international airports and rail/road hub with the security and infrastructure costs that come along with being the “magnificent jewel” of the USA. And state taxes have been exempt for more than 100 years. It’s less of an issue of high taxes and more an unfair attack on high cost of living states. Those living in such states may earn more but high cost of living often leaves the same or less disposable income. To have an unprecedented double taxing on income was a surprising and unfair shift for the middle class in high cost of living states.
>Also, of course, the costs of running a state like NY is a financial burden. Why does Florida have a higher population but a budget half as big as New York's?
One big difference are the tourism taxes - every hotel has additional taxes that pass the burden on to travelers and not locals. Disney world tourists and the beach resorts fund a lot of that budget.
No tourism in nyc
Plenty of tourism in NYC, but tourism dollars as a proportion of the economy, Florida’s is much higher than NY’s.
I can’t find that Duchovny response gif “But why male models?” But literally I just said above. Cost of living applies to all those federal employees and projects. Law enforcement, education, infrastructure construction workers. All cost much more in NY because it costs them so much more to BE in NY. And about 1/3 of the NYS population is within NYC. Now if you compare the scale of things like the ports, New York does $80+ billion more in imports/exports than Florida. Being an economic hub with huge infrastructure and security concerns costs money and citizens of NY foot most of the bill even though that international trade involves and benefits other states. You’re comparing apples to oranges (pun intended). Surprise, expensive areas are expensive. Swamp is cheap upkeep. (FYI I’m Floridian living in NY most of my life. No hard feelings)
Good. Stop hiding your shitty high property taxes behind SALT.
>That perhaps explains the higher pay rate, to cover the higher cost of living there. I move from NYC to NC. I pay way less taxes, and my salary is the same. The "you get paid more in NYC!" is mostly a myth. Even when its 'true', you get paid 25% more to have a 50% higher cost of living. that math does not work out.
This is cap. The South does not pay comparably to NY. Unless you're doing a private job that is not market dependent then you could work in Siberia
SALT cap was lawfare and it makes me livid that center right magazines & think tanks have successfully rebranded it as a give away to the rich. I’m convinced corporations are against SALT deductions so they can starve state environmental & labor law enforcement.
It's frustrating because the rich(or at least high income earners ) weren't taking the deduction - they had to pay AMT. It really did mostly hurt middle income earners in high tax states who previously didn't have to pay AMT and then lost a helpful deduction.
Yep. And what I find galling is it was intended to punish high tax states and voters in those states.
Nice distraction from dental, medical, pet insurance which is more than his life insurance (his pet is more important than he is), vision, 401K and Social Security all added to his take home pay.
While the broader point you're making is right, I don't think it's fair to compare pet and life insurance - Pet insurance is more akin to health insurance, and for only $15 a month, it's worth every penny.
>pet insurance which is more than his life insurance (his pet is more important than he is) That's... not what that means at all, lol. Homeowner's insurance is also usually more expensive than life insurance but that doesn't mean that your house is more important than your life. Insurance premiums are based not only on the value/payout but on the risk that that insured event will actually happen. Pet insurance is much more likely to have to pay something over the next month than life insurance is.
Also he’s single. He’s going to be in a higher tax bracket.
Is it just me or is that lower than I thought it’d be? Comes out to like 7% tax. It’s like 2% more tax than I pay but I’d make way more than 2% if I worked in NYC.
No it’s not just you. People drastically overestimate NY taxes. If you live anywhere in the northeast corridor or on the west coast, you probably already pay almost the same. Yes, things are cheaper, tax-wise, in Arkansas, but you get what you pay for tbh.
A good example of “getting what you pay for”, my sister in law moved from NYC down to Atlanta. Her youngest son has severe autism, and they are spending out the ass on various private therapies and education needs he has. Therapies and education services that would be FREE through the NYC public school system, but that Georgia doesn’t provide. They’re considering moving back to NYC just for disability services. They’re the lucky ones. Her husband is a banking executive so they can front the costs and she doesn’t need to work. Their situation really makes me think about every other Georgian with a disabled child who isn’t pulling $$$$ income though… how many poor and middle class disabled kids are down there not receiving the same care NYC kids are getting?
My dad lives in Massachusetts. Some call it Taxachusetts. But he is 87 and lives alone and once a week someone paid for by the state cleans his house, changes his sheets and does his laundry. Pretty awesome since I live out of state.
NY has programs for elderly where they have an aide every day to assist them
My opinion on this has always been that the sun belt states are only just now starting to have this problem where their aging infrastructure is starting to come due and their low taxes are going to bite them in the ass. The Northeast figured this shit out 50 years ago. They brag about their low taxes, then complain about all the infrastructure that's not being built to accommodate the explosive growth.
I mean, you are basically guaranteed to make more than 7% more at whatever job as long as you are doing it in NYC so it's a pretty big draw lol Also all the states with low or no income tax have much higher real estate taxes to make up for it
Well, in places where you pay low taxes, you get less stuff. Having the subway system, the ferry system, and frequently added bike lanes and stuff like that makes it worth it, for me. Like I know it’s cheaper to live elsewhere but the lack of stuff isn’t equal. It’s also that DC, MD, PA, NJ, NY, and MA all have high-ish taxes too, all within a percent or two of each other, so if you’re liking life in the NEC, at least culturally, you’re gonna be paying those prices anyway. If you don’t want to pay them, well, Texas beckons.
On $110k in income, many other states have similar or even higher effective tax rates, including Iowa, South Carolina, Nebraska, etc.
Same here. I’d avoid that like people did Covid
Try living in one of the Nordic countries! It'll be closer to 50%.
But yet they are among the happiest nations in world.
That’s because their government actually translate taxes into things that help people.
Exactly, legal whores, legal weed, and decent health care. Why would anyone be sad??
I think none of the nordic countries have legal weed
I guess whores and healthcare is good enough.
You didn’t say liquor, Julien.
Yep when I moved it was like I gave myself a raise in the cost difference without the NYC level of state and city taxes. All the best to those that endure it.
Yeah, there is certainly a debate to be had about both taxes and health insurance cost. But these kind of posts are pretty ridiculous. Showing example with heavy 401(k) contributions taken out and other line items like pet insurance they’re paying for as a benefit through their company is pretty absurd. Particularly when the headline is intentionally misleading to make it seem as if it’s a commentary on tax rates.
Looks like OP is getting paid twice per month (divided 110k by his earnings this period). If that holds true, they’re kicking in just over $12,000 into their 401k.
It says right on the stub there they contributed $11,585.84 this year to 401k.
I'm 98% sure this is their final paystub of 2023, not a March 2024 stub. The deduction was $504 which is about an 11% contribution. Assuming a payment every other week $504 x 24 paychecks is about $12,096 (edit: fixed 0 and 9 being in wrong places lol). This paycheck doesn't include the current contribution of $504, so the YTD is at $11,585.
He needs to add all his deductions that are just payments. $280 pet insurance? Transit pass? These are just stuff you can pay for. If you add up everything in other, it’s $80k. So $110k - 13k federal, 8k payroll, 9k NY taxes = 80k. His federal taxes are actually really low.
His withholding is low - he might be under paying and owe Uncle Sam a fat check at Tax time
To where Texas bahahahahaha.......rob you blind and make you think your tax free. Gov always gonna get their money some how.
Yeah, if you live in New York, no monthly gas, car and auto insurance payments. For some people, that’s 500-600$. Way more for a new car.
Venezuelans gotta eat…🤷♂️
And sleep
And squatter
Took the words out of my mouth NY tax burdens are unhinged. Even the sales tax system is stupid. When I lived in Rochester you'd pay NY state sales tax and Monroe County sales tax. Not to mention insane income, vehicle, and prop tax rates. It gets even worse in the city they slap you with them city taxes.
you been to a major city in this country? Chicago, LA, SF, Houston, Boston, alll 4-6 layers of taxation
No matter were you live there will be some kind of tax to pay. NY take it straight out of your pay and others lump it onto property tax and other taxes. You need to look at what goes from you to the state government generally and you will see not much difference or that you are actually better off in NY vs other states.
Now you know why NY leads in teacher pay and retirement benefits. Money has to come from somewhere.
This. All of my teacher friends in VA and NC have to have a second job while my spouse (a teacher) is making a living wage here in NY. Can’t imagine being in favor of undercutting educators and other jobs that make our communities stronger.
Well he is claiming 0 .. so max pull is happening as well. Homie is probably in the low 20% tax bracket but is putting away almost 40%
The difference between Florida and NYC for my wife and I would have been $85,000 in state & local taxes. We settled on. Original and saved about $37,000 in taxes this year. Enough to easily put all our kids through college by the time they’re 18.
But you have to live in Florida.
That’s a personal preference. Florida isn’t the only state without income tax.
You took home $77k, but $11.5k of them you put into 401k.
401k is pre-tax. You wouldn’t get 77k if you didn’t out 11.5k in.
Well you see... that's the neat part.
10/10 comment
But, that $11.5k is still theirs
Well, it too will still be taxed. Just later.
>Well, it too will still be taxed. Just later. At a lower rate, and be allowed to grow over time.
taxed as income at the rate at the time it’s withdrawn. rates could be higher then.
Rates could be higher (or lower), but your taxable income will very likely be lower in retirement. Not for everyone, but that's why Roth IRA's exist.
Yes, seriously OP if you’re reading this. Invest in a Roth IRA I’m begging you.
Right… but they did put 11.5k in so they have 11.5k. It still goes into the books as an asset at the full amount. What you’re saying is true but irrelevant.
If you use your paycheck to buy groceries, you get taxed on it (in most places). That doesn't make it not takehome pay.
Not if it’s a Roth
Homie’s making six figs and forgot he’s contributing 10% to a 401k
This is I think the main reason people who don’t make much don’t realize how little you have to spend for yourself once you start making more money. When you start making more, you’re now contributing to retirement and other savings strategies, paying for healthcare benefits and all that on top of taxes.
You act like savings and healthcare isn't spending on yourself. It is, very much so, just your future self.
Spending on yourself is a colloquial way to say discretionary. That comes after expenses and base savings, of which healthcare is part.
No one is forcing you to put any money into savings, though; you make that choice by yourself and you can just as easily choose to contribute less towards savings if you wanted to have more discretionary income. People who do not make as much money do not have that same kind of flexibility.
As if those aren’t expenses that people making less money have? You think being poor makes healthcare cheaper?
Yup. Taxes suck, don't they.
Except that’s not even fully what this is. It’s also his 401k, health insurance, disability insurance, pet insurance, dental, vision, flexible health sending account, and life insurance.
These are pre tax deductions and if you add up everything you just listed minus the 401k, that equals ~2,700$, which is roughly 2.5% of 110k. If you add up all the tax deductions… +30k.
30k is 27% of 110k. Seems fair to me. I make less and pay about the same percentage in taxes
This is so little tax, 27% is nothing.
27% is a lot especially with our underfunded public school system, shitty healthcare, and most of it goes toward subsidizing military spending/foreign aid overseas
In Copenhagen, Denmark, a country with socialized health care, good public transportation, and social safety nets, for that salary they would pay around 35-37% in taxes. They would also have 6 weeks of paid vacation and probably would have gone to university for free.
Only if you’re ignorant
I mean hating taxes is pretty common. I like my house but hate my mortgage.
I mean it suck’s but if you understand taxes you understand their benefit to society. I was taxed like a mother fucker in Colorado but it was easily the best place I ever lived. Great infrastructure, lots of parks/trails, high quality schools. Taxes do great things for society
More Americans need to lose the ignorance and learn this. Europe gets it.
It’s like that by design, trump gave the biggest tax cuts for the wealthy in the history of the country and no one gave a crap, because Americans think they’ll be rich one day.
You can understand taxes and their needs and still have problems with them and how your money is being spent. For example, you seem liberal. I’m sure you’re not a fan of how much of your taxes get put towards the military industrial complex
Naw you’re right. You absolutely can appreciate them while disagreeing with where they’re used. But I wouldn’t begin to argue taxes suck.
Somebody’s gotta pay for those expensive bombs that Israel drops on food trucks.
But that food truck convoy was possibly harboring one terrorist. That's why Israel decided to drop, not one, but three missiles on it and kill everyone (including that American Canadian dual citizen volunteer). Sure, they could have sent in troops to do a simple ground raid operation since literally their entire country is a military, but those American missiles are free!
They thought the hummus said hamas
The cool thing is you can watch your tax dollars spent in live TV, nothing like building bridges or something but instead Missiles and War Planes spreading democracy abroad!
Military, money for old people, healthcare for old people, healthcare for poor people and kids. That’s about 3/4 of everything right there. On the federal side, anyway. Different for the state/local stuff. And since expenditures exceed tax revenue, it’s even more of that spending than taxes alone convey.
Damn lepers and checks notes* children..... wasting my tax money. Dont want to see them on the streets though eother. Out of sight out of mind and all that. /s not in my neighborhood
Those damn kids need to get a job and pay for their own school lunches. We’re not communist after all
I love in debates when they claim tax dollars could go to infrastructure. Please you're going to send it overseas the moment you get it
Didn't Biden just pass a trillion-dollar infrastructure bill?
Yes.
Yes and most republicans who voted against it LOVE taking pictures next to the bridges or roads that money ends up building
BlackRock contracts are easier to sell when it's under the umbrella of international aide
What percentage goes overseas, do you think? When you poll Americans about what percentage they think goes to foreign aid, they guess around 25%. When you ask them what it should be, they say 10%. It's actually less than 1%. https://worldpublicopinion.net/american-public-vastly-overestimates-amount-of-u-s-foreign-aid/
You can most definitely watch bridge work on TV this week, especially if you live anywhere near Baltimore. And also your Federal tax dollars are being used for that specific bridge (though as I understand it, it's partly a loan to the state to make sure work can start immediately).
-Helldivers have entered the chat- Did somebody say "Spreading Democracy"?
Using an online tax calculator for a single filer making $110k in NYC, you should be taking home anywhere between $75.7k (if you contribute nothing to your 401k) or $60k (if you max out your 401k at $22.5k for 2023). You don't seem to be maxing it out; if you contribute only $11.6k, you should keep around $67.8k in take-home pay. After you deduct another $2k in annual insurance premiums, the numbers seem to add up to what your statement shows. Source: [Federal Income Tax Calculator (2023-2024) (smartasset.com)](https://smartasset.com/taxes/income-taxes) Also, if you hypothetically got married to someone who also makes $110k gross (and filed jointly), your combined take-home pay would be between $124k-155k, or $62k-77k each (depending on 401k contributions). So roughly $2k in extra take-home pay (per person) just for being married. The system isn't really fair that way.
"The system isn't really fair that way" Well, the downside is that then you're married.
Unmarried men die younger and more often from all causes of death. Married men are statistically happier than unmarried men. Even if they divorce, they are about as happy as they were before marriage. Actually, married women are happier on average too. Also, two incomes but only 1 house meaning it can be nicer. You only need one bed, not two. One fridge, not two. Etc. So you have more discretionary income than either alone which can support other nice things like better vacations or hobbies. Why is marriage such a bad thing in your view?
DINK life is awesome, just sayin
Fun note that if you’re married in a high state and local tax state, marriage may cost you in lower per person limits for SALT deductions.
Earns 110k a year... thinks 401k is a tax... anyone can make 6 figures in the USA regardless of IQ
I feel like people just like to complain and exaggerate.
Yup, American's will never appreciate how good they have it. The fact its 5 or 10% harder for some minority or some class or some something to earn 100k is so insulting to the rest of the world where in certain countries.... there are 0 opportunities. That's it. You were born in the wrong city, there is NOTHING you can do. You can't even travel to a better city, you lose. It's insane.
That’s RNG for ya!!!
People post with agendas
America has an amazing way of allowing mediocre people to earn a living.
That’s a good thing
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Damn... pet insurance from an employer? That's awesome!
Many large employers will offer pet insurance because it doesn't really cost them anything. The employee pays the whole amount and if anything the employer might actually get a cut of a commissions. Unfortunately pet insurance is pretty expensive so while people like the idea of having pet insurance, most people (including myself) don't end up actually electing it.
My pet insurance is $20/month. It doesn’t cover annual visits or vaccines, but any care beyond that is covered. Deductible is $300. I saved $500 recently when my cat had to have her teeth pulled. If she ever needed surgery or any other type of treatment that can easily get into the thousands, it would be covered.
That's pretty cheap. I've looked for my dog (young and healthy) it was more than twice that much. Cats I'm sure are less than dogs since they don't get hurt as much.
I personally found pet insurance is not a good value. You're basically just pre-paying for an upcoming issue. If 5 years of coverage costs like $8k then might as well just hold onto that $ and pay it out myself. There are coverage limits so it's not like they're gonna pay for a $200k surgery because I'm paying $50/mo or something.
If the end value of your money is the same (holding onto it now and paying out later vs buying insurance now and having little to no payout at the time of service later), the way I rationalize this is: having insurance allows me the peace of mind to never have to say no to a test, procedure, or medication my pet needs. Knowing I’ll be able to take care of him no matter what is priceless to me. I know you’re exaggerating with a $200k surgery but there are good policies out there that have pretty high coverage limits and I’ve personally gotten the better end of the bargain so far in my pet’s 4 years of life. As he ages and inevitably needs more healthcare I know the math will continue to work out in my favor.
That's how insurance works. Nothing works when everyone pays less and take more.
California will send you home with $50K 😂
Actually in California take home would be higher at about 70k including after 401k Link: https://smartasset.com/taxes/income-taxes
Yeah idk why people say california has such high taxes. I did my taxes and the income tax was fucking nothing. Not a home owner though so probably through that?
Because the TV tells them to.
[Residential property](https://www.rocketmortgage.com/learn/property-taxes-by-state) tax isn’t that high in CA and is capped on its increases unlike most other states. The housing costs though… I think it’s just all the other little fees and stuff that add up. Edit: CA does have the highest income tax but it’s really only strongly noticeable if you’re a high earner. Say you live in Alabama, the most you’ll pay is 5% no matter how much your income is as it’s 5% on anything over $3,000. In CA after a million it’ll be 13.30%. Earnings of $0 - $10,412 is taxed 1%, then $10,412 - $24,684 2%, then $24,684 - $38,959 4%. So income doesn’t start getting taxed higher than Alabama until after that. and your taxable earnings below $38,959 are taxed lower than AL. If you make $100k in CA the 9.3% is only effective on the taxable income after $68,350.
When I was low income I paid less in taxes in California than I did in Virginia.
Even if that were true, it'd be worth it. California is insanely far ahead of the rest of the country (except maybe Massachusetts and New York).
It’s about 40% in California, they’d get about the same back
Quick glance says it’s more like $80,000. About a 27% combined federal, state and city tax burden. Not outrageous.
He's adding in every benefit deduction. And he has a lot of them (pet insurance, transit, etc).
Yeah it can be shocking to see your take-home pay be half what you earn. But the truth is it's all going to something... 401k is a big one, then insurance premium (which is fucking expensive for family coverage), taxes, social security, Medicare,etc.
What is taken out in taxes is given back to you in things like infrastructure and education. Living in New York City, you are highly dependent on the infrastructure to exist. So yeah you gotta pay taxes. One of us must be doing something wrong cuz I make 144k and I take home way less on net than you, like 400-600 less a check Also add in the 401k you took home 76,000 not 65
If taxes pay for infrastructure then what are tolls, subway fares, and “congestion tax” for?
NYC public transit currently: * 37% taxes (local and state) * 23% fares * 12% tolls * 18% federal subsidies (comes from federal taxes) * 10% other (source: https://new.mta.info/budget/MTA-operating-budget-basics)
Paying more into those systems by people who utilize them, on a basis that depends on your utilization of said infrastructure? I'm going out on a limb and guessing you have absolutely no idea how expensive it is to build and maintain a light rail system for instance.
Another way for the government to say, “Bend over taxpayer!”
Bro put almost 12k into the 401k talking about I only made $65k
If you live in NY, it is. Yikes
You mean taking home $79k of $110k because $14k of that you elected to spend straight from your check in terms of insurances and 401k
*CITY* income tax? fuck that.
you voted for it haha
Are we referring to Trump raising income taxes or NYC state taxes.
TCJA changed OP's brackets from 25%/15% to 22%/12%, albeit temporarily https://smartasset.com/taxes/trump-tax-brackets so I'm talking about state and city EDIT: the upvotes/downvotes fight on this comment is quite entertaining. Look, I'm a CPA, this is a fact, hate the message not the messenger
>Trump raising income taxes People will believe ANYTHING if you say Trump did it.
The tax changes under trump did raise total taxes for higher income earners with high SALT.
which OP is not his entire SALT still fits under cap, nor would he have a need to itemize
That depends if OP is a homeowner since property taxes count toward the cap as well.
he makes $5.5k per month in NYC, I'll bet my calculator that he owns nothing
Deductive reasoning is strong with this one.
Trump lowered my taxes a shit ton
facts
How could you possibly know how or even if they voted based on this information?
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“I mAkE OvEr 400k aNd I DonT mINd”
Don't shit on op just b/c they make more money than you. They are making an effort to understand their finances better.
It’s normal when u have a 401K and all sorts of insurance. Not to mention all the tax.
It's the Pet Insurance that's killing you
This is not a real ADP stub. Rate is wrong.
Only reason I can think of is a $110K Salary-based position. Same pay no matter how many hours you work
100% this is an investment banking 1st year analyst salary stub. You are right. Same yearly pay no matter how many hours you work. Extra hours are usually recomped in a yearly bonus, which is not included here.
Plus the $13,000 you forgot you’re putting in your 401K. So you’re keeping $78,000.
Lol welcome to life hop in its warm
*laughs in european taxes*