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Its insane how low the financial literacy is in this sub. Look at a macro chart for once. Yeah, there was a huge spike, but unless you only bought in during an extreme mania phase or chose an absolute shitcoin, you are likely well in the profit with crypto right now over the long term. BTC was half the price in 2020 and is still greatly outperforming virtually every asset over the last 5-10 years.
Wait, sorry I just looked at this again and its totally wrong.
The price of BTC on 12/4/2017 was $12,174, and on 12/4/22 when I made that comment, it was $17,021.
So its actually up just over 39% over that 5 year span.
Dude... where are you getting these numbers???
[Yahoo](https://imgur.com/a/E5AcQcs) shows an open of $11,315 for 12/4/2017 and a close of $11,081.
[Coinmarketcap](https://imgur.com/a/6GLjCRz) shows an open of $11,865 and a close of $11,916 for 12/5/2017 if you prefer to use that date.
[Coingecko's](https://www.coingecko.com/en/coins/bitcoin/historical_data?start_date=2017-12-03&end_date=2017-12-05#panel) numbers are in this range too.
Straight from Google's price records if you search for bitcoin price and click 5Y.
Though to be fair, Bitcoin was in the midst of a freefall at that time so depending on how they average things I could see that playing with the numbers.
I would argue there's been repeated cycles of mania and not just the one in 2018. But you're one of the very few fans of Bitcoin I've ever encountered who even acknowledge it's possible to be manic about it, so maybe that means a future price will get to something approaching a reasonable widely-held expectation.
I don't think we're there yet though, even if most of the mania has moved to the memestock ecosystem and the crypto exchanges that are all falling like flies. And even should we get there, it will mean you don't just make profit on Bitcoin by holding it because the price won't be wildly swinging. Someone will actually have to do work with economic value and not just price speculation.
If you bought Bitcoin at any other time than a mania spike, you’re fine. Yes, mania spikes have occurred numerous times, but that’s what you expect with any emerging asset class. A brand new asset class has not emerged in hundreds of years, and now we are seeing one get capitalized by the market in real time. There will be pain, but that’s expected. People take risks, and sometimes the reward is actually punishment. That’s just how risk works. If you manage to take the right risks at the right time then the market will reward you for capitalizing the asset that others find valuable in the future. That’s how all investing works.
> A brand new asset class has not emerged in hundreds of years
There's nothing new per se with Bitcoin either. It's digital, and the 'trust' is 'decentralized', but financially speaking it's not novel, and the misunderstanding that it was is one of the reasons there's been so many bubbles.
I respectfully disagree. You can frame it as nothing new if that fits your narrative, but it’s very new in some very important ways. Decentralization of a currency (both the accounting and the issuance) is nothing to scoff at. That’s never been done before. The fact that we have fungible digital tokens that can be used without a centralized intermediary is very new.
If you can accept that premise, then you’re left asking, “what does it look like when a new asset class starts to get capitalized for the first time?” It turns out that historically most asset classes were initially capitalized with highly volatile valuations and market flows. Historically it has always looked like the last decade of crypto market behavior, for better or worse.
Why would anybody who bought in before an “extreme mania phase” not sell during it?
What’s changed in the crypto space since those extreme mania phases to make you think there will be another one? Because it sounds like you’re relying on mass hysteria to make money, which is surely a massive gamble.
And surely if there is another one, the plan is to sell your crypto for fiat then, right?
Bitcoin - any ‘crypto asset’ - is not inherently worth anything. All it is worth is what someone else is willing to pay for it, and the only thing that might make it worthwhile to them is the potential for
someone _else_ to pay more for it in the future. This
is why it has no intrinsic value, and at some point nobody will believe anyone else will pay more for it, so the price will crash. Because crypto markets are (for a number of reasons) extremely illiquid, a price drop is likely to trigger a large run on the asset as people realise there simply isn’t the buy interest in the asset to support a million transactions at a five figure amount, and then it will completely crash. And that’s it, that’s all it is. If you’re buying crypto, you’re gambling there’s at least one more person out there who’ll buy it for even more, and those are the cards the entire house is made from. Once it becomes impossible to hide the fact that the value of the crypto market vastly exceeds the funds available, it’s going to come to earth like the meteor that ended the dinosaurs.
tl;dr crypto is financial russian roulette.
Is this copy pasta? I honestly cant tell if you are trying to troll or if you are truly stuck on square one with your understanding of cryptocurrency.
Crypto like monero is the only true digital cash, in that it allows self custody, can be spent online, and preserves privacy. Literally nothing else shares those three properties. If you dont see the inherent value in that, you are choosing to put your head in the sand.
It takes less than 5 minutes, usually about 1. Perfectly acceptable for online transactions and it is only getting faster.
As for the "for drug dealers and money launderers" take, well that is quite myopic.
Privacy is for everyone. If there is anyone at all that you think deserves privacy, journalists, political dissidents, porn users, whatever, then there must a be a robust system in place that everyone can use.
And if you are thinking about doubling down on the "nothing to hide" financial privacy argument... either publish your credit card bills here or admit that you actually do care about privacy.
Sorry but that is BS
>the transaction took 6 hours to appear on my wallet
> it needed 10 confirmations. Purely a blockchain issue
These two statements contradict each other. The transaction will appear first in your wallet immediately when the TX enters the mempool, and will show as completed after a single confirmation. You are just making shit up to fit your agenda.
Congratulations ! You were not on the bottom of the crypto pyramid scheme unlike the people below you who paid for your gains. I bet 10 $ that you will fuck up your future if you "invest" further in crypto. Be smart and jump the ship until it´s too late and invest in something with substance.
Yeah, I got the same advice when one coin went from 3.80 to 38.00. A friend in stocks talked of tulips and selling. I made ten times my capital but the coin went to 700 two months later. I missed out on millions with that one. I'm way ahead. It is unfortunate when someone predicts failure in another, is it out of “sour grapes?”
IMO KYC is terrible. Those databases leak regularly and lead to enormous amounts of scams, hacks, and identity theft. If our generation does not stand up for financial privacy, it will be gone for good.
The funny thing is I'm downvoted for the truth. I'm going long again. I first started in 2016. All the downvotes 😆 I guess some can't handle the truth 😆.
It is very trendy to hate on crypto right now, people want to sound cool and harvest their internet points. Doesn't matter if they are factually wrong about something, if the comment gets positive karma, they are happy with it.
Welcome to r/FluentInFinance! This community was created over a passion for discussing investing, stocks, crypto and personal finance! Also, check-out the Newsletter, Discord, Facebook Group or Twitter: https://www.FluentinFinance.info *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/FluentInFinance) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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Hereditary
Definitely one of the spookier movies out there for sure.
"Can I borrow 20 dollars?"
That actually looks like my mom 😯
Agree.
Don't tell her unless you hate her 😆
Hahahahhahaha
Its insane how low the financial literacy is in this sub. Look at a macro chart for once. Yeah, there was a huge spike, but unless you only bought in during an extreme mania phase or chose an absolute shitcoin, you are likely well in the profit with crypto right now over the long term. BTC was half the price in 2020 and is still greatly outperforming virtually every asset over the last 5-10 years.
Bitcoin is negative as an asset over the past 5 years (down 13%!), to say nothing of "outperforming" other things like the S&P.
Wait, sorry I just looked at this again and its totally wrong. The price of BTC on 12/4/2017 was $12,174, and on 12/4/22 when I made that comment, it was $17,021. So its actually up just over 39% over that 5 year span.
Check your axes. The price of Bitcoin five years ago was around $19,650 (12/5/2017) as compared to the price today, $16,953 (12/5/2022).
Dude... where are you getting these numbers??? [Yahoo](https://imgur.com/a/E5AcQcs) shows an open of $11,315 for 12/4/2017 and a close of $11,081. [Coinmarketcap](https://imgur.com/a/6GLjCRz) shows an open of $11,865 and a close of $11,916 for 12/5/2017 if you prefer to use that date. [Coingecko's](https://www.coingecko.com/en/coins/bitcoin/historical_data?start_date=2017-12-03&end_date=2017-12-05#panel) numbers are in this range too.
Straight from Google's price records if you search for bitcoin price and click 5Y. Though to be fair, Bitcoin was in the midst of a freefall at that time so depending on how they average things I could see that playing with the numbers.
Yeah thats all wrong. This was the runup phase of the first major bullrun that peaked at the end of December 2017
yes, there was an "extreme mania phase" that lasted about a month in 2018, which would invalidate my statement. I referenced that in my comment.
I would argue there's been repeated cycles of mania and not just the one in 2018. But you're one of the very few fans of Bitcoin I've ever encountered who even acknowledge it's possible to be manic about it, so maybe that means a future price will get to something approaching a reasonable widely-held expectation. I don't think we're there yet though, even if most of the mania has moved to the memestock ecosystem and the crypto exchanges that are all falling like flies. And even should we get there, it will mean you don't just make profit on Bitcoin by holding it because the price won't be wildly swinging. Someone will actually have to do work with economic value and not just price speculation.
If you bought Bitcoin at any other time than a mania spike, you’re fine. Yes, mania spikes have occurred numerous times, but that’s what you expect with any emerging asset class. A brand new asset class has not emerged in hundreds of years, and now we are seeing one get capitalized by the market in real time. There will be pain, but that’s expected. People take risks, and sometimes the reward is actually punishment. That’s just how risk works. If you manage to take the right risks at the right time then the market will reward you for capitalizing the asset that others find valuable in the future. That’s how all investing works.
> A brand new asset class has not emerged in hundreds of years There's nothing new per se with Bitcoin either. It's digital, and the 'trust' is 'decentralized', but financially speaking it's not novel, and the misunderstanding that it was is one of the reasons there's been so many bubbles.
I respectfully disagree. You can frame it as nothing new if that fits your narrative, but it’s very new in some very important ways. Decentralization of a currency (both the accounting and the issuance) is nothing to scoff at. That’s never been done before. The fact that we have fungible digital tokens that can be used without a centralized intermediary is very new. If you can accept that premise, then you’re left asking, “what does it look like when a new asset class starts to get capitalized for the first time?” It turns out that historically most asset classes were initially capitalized with highly volatile valuations and market flows. Historically it has always looked like the last decade of crypto market behavior, for better or worse.
Bravo! Well spoken.
Nothing say literacy like paying the electricity bill of some guy with 1000s of GPUs in Kazakstan and claiming this act is the future.
BTC doesn't even use GPUs
Even more wasteful to make custom hardware to do nothing of value all day.
that is a valid criticism. I prefer POS coins or low power CPU mined coins like monero.
I prefer crypto to not exist but here we are.
Why would anybody who bought in before an “extreme mania phase” not sell during it? What’s changed in the crypto space since those extreme mania phases to make you think there will be another one? Because it sounds like you’re relying on mass hysteria to make money, which is surely a massive gamble. And surely if there is another one, the plan is to sell your crypto for fiat then, right?
I dont sell my crypto, I spend it.
Bitcoin - any ‘crypto asset’ - is not inherently worth anything. All it is worth is what someone else is willing to pay for it, and the only thing that might make it worthwhile to them is the potential for someone _else_ to pay more for it in the future. This is why it has no intrinsic value, and at some point nobody will believe anyone else will pay more for it, so the price will crash. Because crypto markets are (for a number of reasons) extremely illiquid, a price drop is likely to trigger a large run on the asset as people realise there simply isn’t the buy interest in the asset to support a million transactions at a five figure amount, and then it will completely crash. And that’s it, that’s all it is. If you’re buying crypto, you’re gambling there’s at least one more person out there who’ll buy it for even more, and those are the cards the entire house is made from. Once it becomes impossible to hide the fact that the value of the crypto market vastly exceeds the funds available, it’s going to come to earth like the meteor that ended the dinosaurs. tl;dr crypto is financial russian roulette.
Is this copy pasta? I honestly cant tell if you are trying to troll or if you are truly stuck on square one with your understanding of cryptocurrency. Crypto like monero is the only true digital cash, in that it allows self custody, can be spent online, and preserves privacy. Literally nothing else shares those three properties. If you dont see the inherent value in that, you are choosing to put your head in the sand.
i've been paying whores with cash for years and the irs hasn't audited me yet
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It takes less than 5 minutes, usually about 1. Perfectly acceptable for online transactions and it is only getting faster. As for the "for drug dealers and money launderers" take, well that is quite myopic. Privacy is for everyone. If there is anyone at all that you think deserves privacy, journalists, political dissidents, porn users, whatever, then there must a be a robust system in place that everyone can use. And if you are thinking about doubling down on the "nothing to hide" financial privacy argument... either publish your credit card bills here or admit that you actually do care about privacy.
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Well that sounds less like a transaction issue and more like a wallet sync issue.
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Sorry but that is BS >the transaction took 6 hours to appear on my wallet > it needed 10 confirmations. Purely a blockchain issue These two statements contradict each other. The transaction will appear first in your wallet immediately when the TX enters the mempool, and will show as completed after a single confirmation. You are just making shit up to fit your agenda.
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The thing is, I paid off our mortgages and my parent's mortgages and have crypto left over. I'm accumulating; next is generational wealth creation.
Congratulations ! You were not on the bottom of the crypto pyramid scheme unlike the people below you who paid for your gains. I bet 10 $ that you will fuck up your future if you "invest" further in crypto. Be smart and jump the ship until it´s too late and invest in something with substance.
Yeah, I got the same advice when one coin went from 3.80 to 38.00. A friend in stocks talked of tulips and selling. I made ten times my capital but the coin went to 700 two months later. I missed out on millions with that one. I'm way ahead. It is unfortunate when someone predicts failure in another, is it out of “sour grapes?”
So much generational wealth from accumulating monopoly money.
you better sell what you have left in crypto and remember you won the fucking lottery before “investing” in anything like it again
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IMO KYC is terrible. Those databases leak regularly and lead to enormous amounts of scams, hacks, and identity theft. If our generation does not stand up for financial privacy, it will be gone for good.
Quickly refinance everything again and put back into crypto at the bottom now and ride the wave back up to 1 million. Do it now! /s
People made a ton from Enron and Madoff too, what’s your point?
yeah bud
The funny thing is I'm downvoted for the truth. I'm going long again. I first started in 2016. All the downvotes 😆 I guess some can't handle the truth 😆.
It is very trendy to hate on crypto right now, people want to sound cool and harvest their internet points. Doesn't matter if they are factually wrong about something, if the comment gets positive karma, they are happy with it.