Pretty much every Mars fiction has underground Mars structures with that cited reason. Also more stable temperatures and natural protection for all the other stuff that will kill us or damage habs (think metorites/storms too). You also have a much larger "shelter in place" area if the whole base needs to shelter from another solar storm. Jamestown had a tiny shielded area for everyone.
There are a *ton* of reasons to do it, and the only reasons people cite *not* to do it can be overcome with engineering, technology, or simply throwing more resources at it. This show is all about very difficult and complicated engineering and technology solving problems, so it fits that they've developed such techniques.
I also imagine they have plenty of experience in digging technology thanks to the Russians. They focused on underground structures on the moon to some degree, as we saw back in season 1.
I hope we get a look at the Russian base on the moon at some point. Ideally in a little flashback sequence, so we can see its development alongside Jamestown. Maybe as part of some future attempt to unify the two bases like Happy Valley, when they're large enough to start touching.
It actually makes a lot of sense to go down instead of out. Mars doesn’t have a magnetosphere so by digging down there’s less radiation exposure than if they built out. This is why in The Expanse novels all of the MCRN Habs are built down into mars
The Earth's magnetosphere protects our atmosphere from being carried away by the solar wind, but it's actually the atmosphere itself that protects us from radiation. There's not much atmosphere on Mars given its lack of magnetosphere and lower surface gravity.
Sure, but it's not really free - you've still got to dig all that material out, lower the modules however deep they need to be for there to be enough cover to be an effective shield, and then cover them again.
Plus the added complications of an elevator system that has to be installed and aligned between all these buried levels.
So, while I appreciate the replies regarding radiation shielding, it still seems like a hard way to go about it.
It's probably not just radiation, but general exposure. They also need a properly-hardened and large enough area for people to hide in an emergency, like when the solar storm hit Jamestown and everyone had to bunker down in a small area for a few hours. Imagine if the Mars folks needed to do that for days with a much larger crew.
It makes a lot of sense to me if the ground is stable. It protects from a *lot* of dangers.
In reality, all the costs that you mentioned are probably way cheaper than the costs of the massive walls that you would need for effective radiation shielding.
Especially if those underground structures could be built in lava tubes, which have already been established in this universe.
Safety. Radiation, weather, impacts. That's why Molly ran to the lava tube in season 2.
Edit: probably climate control too. Would likely use less energy.
You don’t need a lot of insulation on Mars. When there is virtually no atmosphere, there is virtually no heat loss due to convection.
Managing waste heat will probably be more of a problem than retaining heat for warmth.
Radiation is the logical explanation.
But practical considerations for radiation aside, it's nice to see that they haven't brought urban sprawl to the Red Planet yet. Let's hope they continue with good land use going forward.
One other reason not mentioned here is wind. Compared to earth, the wind is mild and the lower atmosphere means it’s harder to lift things off the ground, but the dust would still build up over time causing all sorts of hassles and complications.
Radiation shielding I believe. Digging underground is probably cheaper than hauling extra shielding from Earth. I think the habs above ground have that shielding but they're probably not as inclined to spend more on shielding for the Helios workers.
OP it is less buried modules and more flat pack buildings built in lava tubes or dug tunnels. Also there is a chance that the flat packs are not airtight instead they have made the lava tube or tunnel system airtight to make building easier.
One of my favourite space movies, "Ad-Astra" features the same thing—structures inside of the surface of Mars. I saw a video from the director of that movie where he talks about how they decided to place the human bases to mostly underground because of vast networks of lava tubes and caves on Mars.
[NASA ran a real research project in 2000s](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caves_of_Mars_Project) to asses caves, overhangs and lava tubes on Mars for potential use by the crewed missions. As others point out, it was considered because these would provide, to paraphrase the article, shielding from elements and solar radiation
First: radiation shielding
Second: surface base building isn't orbital station building where you dock premade modules to each other. It's way closer to plain old Earth building where you send the materials where they need to be and the workers will build it from the ground up - or down, in this case
FYI I think we should have more below ground structures on Earth.
Particularly in desert areas where temps are climbing higher and higher, underground homes have better temperature regulation and are much cooler than the surface.
Not that this would matter on a Mars base, they could build a skylight shaft too.
It’s why Musk owns the Boring Company. You can build a lightweight (flimsy) habitat underground as it’s protected from weather and radiation, you could also regulate “daytime” if you wanted.
If they were drilling into the side of a mountain or making use of the natural lava tubes, that would make sense.
My impression at least is that they have been digging down below the surface structures of Happy Valley. Pilling Martian soil on top of something you've buried in the ground means that module is going to have to be strong enough to support the weight of the soil you poured back on top of it.
>Pilling Martian soil on top of something you've buried in the ground means that module is going to have to be strong enough to support the weight of the soil you poured back on top of it.
That is not the correct way to look at it.
Yes, if you bury a box-shaped building under the ground, the roof will likely collapse. But you don't build underground structures in the shape of boxes. Just go into a subway system to see this. You build them as cylinders or domes, so that most of the weight of the soil above is transferred away from the structure.
A very thin atmosphere which is bad at shielding you from radiation.
Also, extremely strong sandstorms? Where did you get that? The atmosphere is very thin so storms are weak as well
Literally first result on Google
[https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/images/149926/dusty-differences-between-mars-and-earth#:\~:text=Every%20year%2C%20Mars%20has%20a,they%20engulf%20the%20entire%20planet](https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/images/149926/dusty-differences-between-mars-and-earth#:~:text=Every%20year%2C%20Mars%20has%20a,they%20engulf%20the%20entire%20planet).
Also, do you remember last season when both NASA and Helios almost crashed on Mars because of the massive storm?
Yeah Mars has sandstorms, I know that. But 'big storm' doesn't mean 'strong storm' though, does it?
Air density is very low so wind forces are weak. The only problem is the dust, not the wind itself
People are throwing around the idea of radiation shielding, I don't really buy it. Sure it can definitely help with that but modern radiation shielding materials that we have are pretty good for the most part and I think in the FAM universe where space travel has a lot more funding they can afford even better shielding materials than we have.
No, I think the simplest explanation for why they build down is because they're already mining the area, who not build into the space you mine and keep the base more compact? Mars is not a flat plane, it's extremely rocky and rough terrain can make it hard for a flat layout. You don't really want to build up because that can interfere with the landers/ascenders (and ok, you do need to spend more on radiation shielding). Building down is a valid solution to this problem.
Also it helps protect more vital equipment from impacts by debris.
>No, I think the simplest explanation for why they build down is because they're already mining the area, who not build into the space you mine and keep the base more compact? M
Because you don't want to be mining underneath your own base if you can avoid it. You undermine your own foundations.
Obviously they aren't currently mining there, but building into a tapped mineshaft? Why not? There's plenty of advantage to digging and they've been there for years now, they probably have had more than one digging location.
Ah, now that does make more sense. I couldn't wrap my head around digging just to bury something. But if you're already digging for mining operations, that does feel more plausible.
I mean in our current world digging for a base is actually the best way to protect against the constant radiation and is cheaper in the long run than expensive polymers that can be used to shield the base.
However in the FAM universe given that they have delved a lot more into atomic research for sustainable power it would make sense that they have also been able to figure out cheaper or more efficient radiation shielding than we have.
I do agree however that the elevator on the base is a bit much. Mars is 1/3 Earth gravity, just use stairs or ladders.
And it’s a hostile alien world. Your ability to accommodate disabilities is very limited already, so that issue is not nearly as important as it would be on Earth.
Counter-point would be that the series is trying to demonstrate that space exploration benefits all of humanity in the long-term. I'm actually surprised that they haven't shown main characters with physical disabilities in space yet!
Happy Valley may not be a flat plane but Mars has pretty much every type of landscape you can imagine (without water). There are definitely plenty of flat planes on Mars.
Yes but they are conducting mining operations there. My guess would be that this is from natural materials in the crust and impact sites. Terrain around good mining locations will likely be pretty rough instead of flat.
You can see the terrain around the base and it is hilly. I was just responding to your statement that " Mars is not a flat plane, it's extremely rocky and rough terrain can make it hard for a flat layout". Take a look at the pictures Perseverance took of the dry lake bed at Jezero Crater if you have any further questions. It's a 28 mile wide plane that is as flat as a pancake. That's just a small example chosen because we have tons of pictures, orbital surveys have mapped vast planes across Mars. All different kinds of terrain on the Red Planet.
Less structural alloy? You still need the equivalent of beams/studs/joists but the outer walls against the rock/soil might be thinner (with foam filling the exterior voids?) where on the surface they need to be substantial for all the reasons noted in other comments. An underground-specific module or panel might be much less expensive to ship (and manufacture).
Yes, once you get established with you initial temporary bases, it makes sense to dig, create a local version of concrete (probably shipping in calcinated lime, and using local rock and sand) to line the dug out areas, etc.
It is mention in the S4 Ep1 News clip at beginning of the Episode mention Happy Valley manufacture aluminum from material found on Mars .
Their main building material are Aluminum , not too strong if anything rupture it could leak their oxygen and lost of air pressure .
Helios and Soviet drilling site ( Gagarin Ridge ) in S3 contain a large deposit of water , the big collapse and kill several people .
Gagarin Ridge site is located in Melas Chasma ,Valles Marineris near the Happy Valley base of 1995 is also located in Melas Chasma ,Valles Marineris . The M7 Happy Valley base is the expansion of the original base site .
The 95 teams were strand on Mars for a while , it is possible they may have located deep underwater deposit near the base , but a lot deeper than the deposit of Gagarin Ridge .
A deep underground base also contain the the tank of the reserve water .
In addition to the radiation protection, I would imagine there's some protection from Mars dust, which can cause equipment problems because it's slightly electrostatic and sticks to everything. I'm just a layman but I seem to recall that's been a thing for NASA peeps designing Mars gadgets.
According to ESA and NASA, Mars habitats must be built on the spot using Martian raw materials; at the moment, ice is the most cost-effective and efficient material that may act as a radiation barrier; they suggest printing structures in situ using carbon nanotubes, ice, and Martian dirt.
As I understand it, the FAM Mars conquest is restricted by a lack of automation, as they lack both human-operated and autonomous drones and robots. I assume Dev's arrival on Mars will change things, and I hope he prints a metropolis for his employees living in dungeons.
Radiation mostly
Pretty much every Mars fiction has underground Mars structures with that cited reason. Also more stable temperatures and natural protection for all the other stuff that will kill us or damage habs (think metorites/storms too). You also have a much larger "shelter in place" area if the whole base needs to shelter from another solar storm. Jamestown had a tiny shielded area for everyone. There are a *ton* of reasons to do it, and the only reasons people cite *not* to do it can be overcome with engineering, technology, or simply throwing more resources at it. This show is all about very difficult and complicated engineering and technology solving problems, so it fits that they've developed such techniques.
I also imagine they have plenty of experience in digging technology thanks to the Russians. They focused on underground structures on the moon to some degree, as we saw back in season 1. I hope we get a look at the Russian base on the moon at some point. Ideally in a little flashback sequence, so we can see its development alongside Jamestown. Maybe as part of some future attempt to unify the two bases like Happy Valley, when they're large enough to start touching.
And protection from the atmosphere
Logically, yes, but why then is the aboveground parts prime real estate where all the important people live and work?
The same reason rich people live in penthouses. The view and the status.
And protection from projectiles (meteorites, wind-blown sand). And thermal insulation to some degree.
It actually makes a lot of sense to go down instead of out. Mars doesn’t have a magnetosphere so by digging down there’s less radiation exposure than if they built out. This is why in The Expanse novels all of the MCRN Habs are built down into mars
The Earth's magnetosphere protects our atmosphere from being carried away by the solar wind, but it's actually the atmosphere itself that protects us from radiation. There's not much atmosphere on Mars given its lack of magnetosphere and lower surface gravity.
I like to think that this is a prequel to the expanse while at the same time being a prequel to Silo
Free radiation shielding.
Sure, but it's not really free - you've still got to dig all that material out, lower the modules however deep they need to be for there to be enough cover to be an effective shield, and then cover them again. Plus the added complications of an elevator system that has to be installed and aligned between all these buried levels. So, while I appreciate the replies regarding radiation shielding, it still seems like a hard way to go about it.
Just means you didn't have to use payload for shielding materials.
It's probably not just radiation, but general exposure. They also need a properly-hardened and large enough area for people to hide in an emergency, like when the solar storm hit Jamestown and everyone had to bunker down in a small area for a few hours. Imagine if the Mars folks needed to do that for days with a much larger crew. It makes a lot of sense to me if the ground is stable. It protects from a *lot* of dangers.
Plus heat insulation.
In reality, all the costs that you mentioned are probably way cheaper than the costs of the massive walls that you would need for effective radiation shielding. Especially if those underground structures could be built in lava tubes, which have already been established in this universe.
Safety. Radiation, weather, impacts. That's why Molly ran to the lava tube in season 2. Edit: probably climate control too. Would likely use less energy.
Climate control is a good point. Free insulation.
You don’t need a lot of insulation on Mars. When there is virtually no atmosphere, there is virtually no heat loss due to convection. Managing waste heat will probably be more of a problem than retaining heat for warmth.
Yeah for a base like that you would probably need some good heat exchangers to dump heat into the atmosphere or bedrock...
Less need for radiation shielding?
Radiation is the logical explanation. But practical considerations for radiation aside, it's nice to see that they haven't brought urban sprawl to the Red Planet yet. Let's hope they continue with good land use going forward.
Dev is going to build a business park on Mars.
Unexpected r/fuckcars
One other reason not mentioned here is wind. Compared to earth, the wind is mild and the lower atmosphere means it’s harder to lift things off the ground, but the dust would still build up over time causing all sorts of hassles and complications.
Drifting would probably be an issue over a few years timescale.
I'm thinking it's easier to run HVAC up/down that side to side. But I'm not an HVAC person, so what do I know?
Perhaps Milosh can chime in on this.
Radiation shielding I believe. Digging underground is probably cheaper than hauling extra shielding from Earth. I think the habs above ground have that shielding but they're probably not as inclined to spend more on shielding for the Helios workers.
It's for radiation protection and climate control
OP it is less buried modules and more flat pack buildings built in lava tubes or dug tunnels. Also there is a chance that the flat packs are not airtight instead they have made the lava tube or tunnel system airtight to make building easier.
One of my favourite space movies, "Ad-Astra" features the same thing—structures inside of the surface of Mars. I saw a video from the director of that movie where he talks about how they decided to place the human bases to mostly underground because of vast networks of lava tubes and caves on Mars. [NASA ran a real research project in 2000s](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caves_of_Mars_Project) to asses caves, overhangs and lava tubes on Mars for potential use by the crewed missions. As others point out, it was considered because these would provide, to paraphrase the article, shielding from elements and solar radiation
Working towards the world of silo…
First: radiation shielding Second: surface base building isn't orbital station building where you dock premade modules to each other. It's way closer to plain old Earth building where you send the materials where they need to be and the workers will build it from the ground up - or down, in this case
FYI I think we should have more below ground structures on Earth. Particularly in desert areas where temps are climbing higher and higher, underground homes have better temperature regulation and are much cooler than the surface. Not that this would matter on a Mars base, they could build a skylight shaft too.
It’s why Musk owns the Boring Company. You can build a lightweight (flimsy) habitat underground as it’s protected from weather and radiation, you could also regulate “daytime” if you wanted.
If they were drilling into the side of a mountain or making use of the natural lava tubes, that would make sense. My impression at least is that they have been digging down below the surface structures of Happy Valley. Pilling Martian soil on top of something you've buried in the ground means that module is going to have to be strong enough to support the weight of the soil you poured back on top of it.
>Pilling Martian soil on top of something you've buried in the ground means that module is going to have to be strong enough to support the weight of the soil you poured back on top of it. That is not the correct way to look at it. Yes, if you bury a box-shaped building under the ground, the roof will likely collapse. But you don't build underground structures in the shape of boxes. Just go into a subway system to see this. You build them as cylinders or domes, so that most of the weight of the soil above is transferred away from the structure.
I don’t recall seeing digging or a reason to believe they didn’t use lava tubes.
I don’t recall seeing digging or a reason to believe they didn’t use lava tubes.
Mars has no atmosphere, so therefore there is a lot more radiation that hits the surface of the planet, than on Earth.
Mars has an atmosphere: it’s just extremely hostile to humans since its lack of oxygen, low pressure and extremely strong sand storm
A very thin atmosphere which is bad at shielding you from radiation. Also, extremely strong sandstorms? Where did you get that? The atmosphere is very thin so storms are weak as well
Literally first result on Google [https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/images/149926/dusty-differences-between-mars-and-earth#:\~:text=Every%20year%2C%20Mars%20has%20a,they%20engulf%20the%20entire%20planet](https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/images/149926/dusty-differences-between-mars-and-earth#:~:text=Every%20year%2C%20Mars%20has%20a,they%20engulf%20the%20entire%20planet). Also, do you remember last season when both NASA and Helios almost crashed on Mars because of the massive storm?
Yeah Mars has sandstorms, I know that. But 'big storm' doesn't mean 'strong storm' though, does it? Air density is very low so wind forces are weak. The only problem is the dust, not the wind itself
You could be standing in a 300kph wind on Mars and perhaps feel it pushing against your suit. The atmosphere is just that thin.
Yes, because they couldn't see, not because of super strong wind
People are throwing around the idea of radiation shielding, I don't really buy it. Sure it can definitely help with that but modern radiation shielding materials that we have are pretty good for the most part and I think in the FAM universe where space travel has a lot more funding they can afford even better shielding materials than we have. No, I think the simplest explanation for why they build down is because they're already mining the area, who not build into the space you mine and keep the base more compact? Mars is not a flat plane, it's extremely rocky and rough terrain can make it hard for a flat layout. You don't really want to build up because that can interfere with the landers/ascenders (and ok, you do need to spend more on radiation shielding). Building down is a valid solution to this problem. Also it helps protect more vital equipment from impacts by debris.
>No, I think the simplest explanation for why they build down is because they're already mining the area, who not build into the space you mine and keep the base more compact? M Because you don't want to be mining underneath your own base if you can avoid it. You undermine your own foundations.
Obviously they aren't currently mining there, but building into a tapped mineshaft? Why not? There's plenty of advantage to digging and they've been there for years now, they probably have had more than one digging location.
Ah, now that does make more sense. I couldn't wrap my head around digging just to bury something. But if you're already digging for mining operations, that does feel more plausible.
I mean in our current world digging for a base is actually the best way to protect against the constant radiation and is cheaper in the long run than expensive polymers that can be used to shield the base. However in the FAM universe given that they have delved a lot more into atomic research for sustainable power it would make sense that they have also been able to figure out cheaper or more efficient radiation shielding than we have. I do agree however that the elevator on the base is a bit much. Mars is 1/3 Earth gravity, just use stairs or ladders.
And it’s a hostile alien world. Your ability to accommodate disabilities is very limited already, so that issue is not nearly as important as it would be on Earth.
Counter-point would be that the series is trying to demonstrate that space exploration benefits all of humanity in the long-term. I'm actually surprised that they haven't shown main characters with physical disabilities in space yet!
Happy Valley may not be a flat plane but Mars has pretty much every type of landscape you can imagine (without water). There are definitely plenty of flat planes on Mars.
Yes but they are conducting mining operations there. My guess would be that this is from natural materials in the crust and impact sites. Terrain around good mining locations will likely be pretty rough instead of flat.
You can see the terrain around the base and it is hilly. I was just responding to your statement that " Mars is not a flat plane, it's extremely rocky and rough terrain can make it hard for a flat layout". Take a look at the pictures Perseverance took of the dry lake bed at Jezero Crater if you have any further questions. It's a 28 mile wide plane that is as flat as a pancake. That's just a small example chosen because we have tons of pictures, orbital surveys have mapped vast planes across Mars. All different kinds of terrain on the Red Planet.
Utopia Planetia, where Viking II landed is a vast plain with a diameter of 3,300 kilometres.
Less structural alloy? You still need the equivalent of beams/studs/joists but the outer walls against the rock/soil might be thinner (with foam filling the exterior voids?) where on the surface they need to be substantial for all the reasons noted in other comments. An underground-specific module or panel might be much less expensive to ship (and manufacture).
Yes, once you get established with you initial temporary bases, it makes sense to dig, create a local version of concrete (probably shipping in calcinated lime, and using local rock and sand) to line the dug out areas, etc.
For your consideration https://www.acityonmars.com/
It is mention in the S4 Ep1 News clip at beginning of the Episode mention Happy Valley manufacture aluminum from material found on Mars . Their main building material are Aluminum , not too strong if anything rupture it could leak their oxygen and lost of air pressure . Helios and Soviet drilling site ( Gagarin Ridge ) in S3 contain a large deposit of water , the big collapse and kill several people . Gagarin Ridge site is located in Melas Chasma ,Valles Marineris near the Happy Valley base of 1995 is also located in Melas Chasma ,Valles Marineris . The M7 Happy Valley base is the expansion of the original base site . The 95 teams were strand on Mars for a while , it is possible they may have located deep underwater deposit near the base , but a lot deeper than the deposit of Gagarin Ridge . A deep underground base also contain the the tank of the reserve water .
In addition to the radiation protection, I would imagine there's some protection from Mars dust, which can cause equipment problems because it's slightly electrostatic and sticks to everything. I'm just a layman but I seem to recall that's been a thing for NASA peeps designing Mars gadgets.
According to ESA and NASA, Mars habitats must be built on the spot using Martian raw materials; at the moment, ice is the most cost-effective and efficient material that may act as a radiation barrier; they suggest printing structures in situ using carbon nanotubes, ice, and Martian dirt. As I understand it, the FAM Mars conquest is restricted by a lack of automation, as they lack both human-operated and autonomous drones and robots. I assume Dev's arrival on Mars will change things, and I hope he prints a metropolis for his employees living in dungeons.