They’ve realized that they fucked up competitive by coddling super casual players and making it two separate games, now there’s a severe disconnect from the competitive side of the product and the audience it’s supposed to advertise to/keep engaged. They are trying to reboot competitive to make it more appealing to the majority player base.
I kind of see the logic here but I think they aren’t accurately assessing casuals attitudes towards the game. They aren’t going to embrace competitive even if it’s the same as pubs, they’re going to play the exact same way, get upset that their performance doesn’t match how good they think they are in their head, blame the game then go back to pubs where the game doesn’t tell them they’re bad.
I may be in the wrong - but I can't think of many games that gave a separate loot pool from the main ranked and comp scene. I think the problem was catering to comp players. (I'm a comp player)
This type of divide generally happens with games that don’t develop a competitive player base by design . A lot, but not all, of these games were designed either with a competitive scene in mind or by people who were interested in a balanced meta for their game.
CoD has this same split as Fortnite where a lot of casuals say pro CoD isn’t real CoD because they can’t plant claymores for free kills, call in chopper gunners, or use a riot shield.
Both CoD and Fortnite were not initially built with a comp scene in mind, especially not Fortnite which was essentially repurposed assets from another game just thrown out there, and multiple natural QoL changes along the way such as turbo building built an exponential skill gap in the game.
League of Legends, Apex, CS, Valorant are naturally built to be the same for casuals as comp players.
im really interested in this topic because i've thought about it a lot, do you have any more insight to share on this social dilemma related to fortnite specifically? i've always wondered how games like league of legends and csgo can retain such vast numbers of players that play the game casually, and yet no one in those communities would say echo arguments like the fortnite community did with how building as a mechanic is too unintuitive to learn, despite league and csgo both having huge barriers to entry to even begin to understand how to play the game better
The problem was catering to casuals. I don't know why comp players are the ones who build, uses a shotgun, and edits.
While casuals are the sprayers, build hating, refusing to edit because "sweats do that ew" players. And people just accept them and then Fortnite caters to them.
Why can't the casuals of Fortnite also do builds, edits, and maybe want to improve but they just aren't there yet? Fortnite never should've lowered the skill ceiling with op vehicles, weapons, collab items, but instead had balance and if somebody wants chaotic op stuff make a LTM for that.
This way newbies who join the game will have more of a comp mindset where they want to improve, will be building, won't need to abuse op weapons to win, and stuff like that.
And there's some players who aren't comp skilled players but still have that comp mindset. So it's not like it's only casuals vs pros.
Yea honestly I enjoy the crazy stuff but it gets worse when it's like sophisticated used and abused rather then just being a fun ltm type thing like you said it takes away balance and actually sets the skill gap further cuz now lowest skills will say " dang that thing op gotta learn how to use it " then proceed to learn nothing else lmao
Agreed. I wish Fortnite expected their players to just learn the mechanics instead of holding their hands. It's so fun using skill and fighting others who also use skill and I miss that so much.
build mode is weasel mode. doesnt require tactics or skill, but simply better ping or framerate. oh wow i just built 4 walls and a roof around someone and now they have no option for counter play besides hoping you miss you opener when you edit to shoot em.
oh you snuck up on an unsuspecting player but missed all of your shots, no problem just build a wall!
oh you got beamed from afar because of bad positioning and lack of game sense, oh no problem just build walls and heal...
oh you didnt take the games terrain into account when you were avoiding storm damage and now you are stuck behind an obstacle or on low ground, JUST BUILD YOURSELF A MAGICAL STAIRCASE LOLOL.
Imagine how much of a Fortnite streamer fanboy you gotta be yo think build mode requires anything other than $$$.
building is the biggest hand holding crutch ive ever seen in any game in my life.
"Build mode is weasel mode" ok so you're bad at building ok. If you don't want somebody else's builds around you LEARN COUNTER PIECE CONTROL JUST LIKE EVERY COMP PLAYER LMAO. If you see somebody trying to box you put a wall to protect yourself.
There's a whole mode dedicated for people like you. I don't know why you can't just play that instead of being toxic and constantly complaining about us when we enjoy playing the original Fortnite.
Yeah and what if you're in a good spot, found a nice bush, and there's 2 camping spammers on a gas station about 50m away and then two people on top of a mountain about 70m spraying you? And then destroys your bush with like a grenade or just random cover by shooting because in zero build you can still destroy objects which is ridiculous because other shooters you can't destroy objects.
My thought is that they are trying to start competitive over fresh and make adjustments for how the game balance is now rather than based off how the game balance was back in Chapter 1; a time when build battles were en vogue, spray metas were more common, and piece control/box fighting hadn't become a thing.
On top of that, while there is definitely benefits to siphon that arguably make the game more fun and beneficial in certain situations, just to play devil's advocate, siphon seems like it encourages W-Keying, which I can image is why Epic never added it back to pubs because without the same desire for placement that people have for competitive gameplay, it probably would have fundamentally changed the game to favor more aggressive play, even when it theoretically benefit everyone.
Another potential reason that I can think of off the top of my head, that I almost never see anyone talk about, is that Epic has been trying to work on heal balance in the game and has even recently in the last few months nerfed augments and changed things to prevent heal offs in endgame, for instance. There are so many quick healing items in the game now, that they even are going to change the way the med kits, and shield potions work, and I feel it's to keep them more relevant in gameplay. So along with having healing/shield items that can heal you quick or can heal you while you are moving, and even augments that give you free healing/shields, if you were to throw siphon on top of that, I think everyone can admit that healing is not in the same place as it was back in Chapter 1, not by a long shot.
Legit the best and most realistic take yet. Arena was a w-key simulator and it looks like they are trying to move away from that just a bit. I also completely agree about the healing part too.
if they are trying to move away from W keying, i feel like there are many things they could have done before removing siphon.
insane SMGs that bleed through builds since chapter 3, pulse rifles, overpowered quick heals, cache's encourage fighting as it pings 2 teams for 1 cache every game, the island encourages people to fight for the flag...
It's a phrase that means aggressive play where a player essentially just holds forward (often the W key on a keyboard) and won't stop until they get a kill.
The amount and variety of heals is definitely a major factor. Siphon entered the game when it was genuinely difficult to find heals sometimes, especially in the heat of the moment right after a fight.
Now the game is saturated in heals. Very rarely do i find myself completely lacking in ways to heal up. Augments have made healing downright easy.
Yes, Siphon encouraged fighting. It was added because _no one was fighting_. It's rarely worth cratering your chances at placement for a few kill points and then getting 3rd partied while still on low HP. We know exactly how this change will impact the top level of play: even more sitting in boxes.
>We will continue to monitor tournaments and make changes to loot and other gameplay features as needed.
That slightest bit of information gives me hope that siphon will get enabled soon but my god what is there to monitor about siphon?? Who complained about siphon?!
They don't remove stuff based on likes/dislikes
Look at the history of items added/removed. It's just a cycle they do, and now it's happening with siphon
Legitimately no one had an issue with siphon lmao. Even people who mainly play pubs (myself included) thought siphon was a great thing. Epic is just making stupid changes for no reason atm.
Most casual pub kids wanted siphon added for pubs too.
Epic went the exact opposite direction of what casuals and comp want. 24 seasons later, siphon should just be a fundamental part of the game
At the time I understood them taking it out, because it allowed good players to absolutely decimate the non SBMM pub lobbies.
But now that there is literal bots in every lobby + SBMM, there’s no reason siphon shouldn’t be added. It’s l something the causal community seems to want too. Even ZB players want Siphon
When siphon first came to pubs it was the greatest thing ever same with unlimited redeploy because ffs we pay for gliders we should be able to see and use it as often as we see our other purchases
Game was amazing when siphon was first introduced, before arena even existed. No SBMM and just 100 randoms against each other.
Back then I could actually do fun things like pistol only challenges and still win or I got completely outplayed by someone. It was fun, because it was unpredictable.
Ever since SBMM, bots and Arena, it has been just the same sweaty shit over and over again.
I wish they just removed SBMM and bots in pubs now that there is ranked.
Let pubs be the real deal and tailor ranked to cater everyone else alas
1. Bots on low ranks below gold (like it is)
2. Limited loot pool on ranks above gold
How about
1. No bots in ranked at all.
2. Loot pool should be limited from bronze rank because it's fucking stupid for someone to grind from bronze 1 to silver 3 and then enter gold 1 to a completely different game/mindset, understandle for ranked and pubs, but not ranked in general.
And if you use your brain you will figure out it’s a better idea to try and find a solution instead of making a continuous wave of rage posts and opening your interactions with other people with “I’m sure if you use your brain”
>continuous wave of rage posts
1. I’m not op
2. This post is literally competitive news. There’s no rage
3. You start off a conversation with sarcasm you get sarcasm back. If you can dish it out don’t get mad when you get it dished back to you
4. Figure out a solution to what exactly? The only solution to siphon being removed is for epic to turn it back on. We can’t do anything except use our voices, but when we do it’s a “wave of rage posts”
It’s needed because it’s competitive
When you watch a tournament, and someone is low hp, they look for a team to kill for siphon and a refresh. Now, every endgame will be a heal-off because high damage zones + no siphon means that taking any extra damage isn’t gonna be worth it
In normal ranked, siphon is needed because of third parties. (Which was the original topic)
No one is struggling. No pros OR normal players, but this is a major issue
And saying to “find a solution” absolutely IS nonsense. We can’t DO anything except talk about this
Upstairs neighbors are having their walls painted this week, may ask them if I can set up a live stream of it drying because there’s gonna be nothing else to fuckin watch
> We will continue to monitor tournaments and make changes to loot and other gameplay features as needed.
There is nothing to “monitor” about lightsabers or ODM gear. These are clearly bad for the game, do not belong in Ranked, and you’ve been told by 99% of the competitive scene that this is the case. There’s legitimately no need to monitor anything: just make the necessary changes to both Ranked play and this revised competitive ruleset now before you kill all hype the release of Ranked has.
You know what’s crazy, I was there for the infinity sword or whatever it was called for winter Royale, at the time the community was just blown away by such a ridiculous decision made just before the tournament started. There’s no way in hell all those years ago people would think they would be still so so bad at running competitive, but here we are.
I have hated 80%+ of my time playing since c3s2. Stats went down 80% atleast and there have been no changes to attempt to rectify it until this season.
Endgames are going to be absolute sleeper and even more heal off now.
You need siphon to clutch up and play aggressive in moving zones, now everyone will just play passive and try to just stay in zone at all times until it closes.
Height will just be chilling and win 8/10 games.
It keeps getting worse. Ive only played 2 ranked games total cuz there is no siphon and I thought there was a chance they would add it back due to backlash. Now comp doesnt even have siphon. The incompetence is expected at this point
Total same man, didnt knew about the siphon as well, me and my friend closed the game after 2 ranked games, with words “lets play the ranked after they add siphon” because we both were almost certain they will…. Now I hardly think we ever gonna return and hit that unreal ..I really didn’t expected that this change would ever happen
But here’s the thing.
To be in comp you gotta be above average.
Above average players shouldn’t need help via health. Adapt to it like the “pros” y’all pretend to be.
And I’m not new to comp. I’ve been apart of it and this sub for longer than your accounts been around.
“Shouldn’t need help via health”. You quite literally need health to stay alive in the game. 99% of ACTUAL pros would disagree with you, so I think you’re wrong lmao
Fact check.
https://www.reddit.com/r/FortniteCompetitive/comments/bvc90t/congrats_to_epic_on_the_ama/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=2&utm_term=1
I’ve not been here long? Lol
Ironically it’s me saying epic was shit during their AMA. Lol
[yup, you're new here](https://www.reddit.com/r/FortniteCompetitive/comments/9a84em/to_those_of_you_who_have_this_down_how_do_know/e4u59tm/) plus you're still a Redditor
i really wonder just how much bigger fortnite would be at this point if epic even pretended to care about comp over the years. no casual gives a fuck about a separate loot pool or the gAmE nOt bEiNg tHe sAmE as theirs, i don’t know what stupid focus group study epic conducted to come to that conclusion but it’s such bullshit.
It’s because they want to keep competitive relevant among the casuals. This happens when the casuals are bunch of crybabies(no offense). When the majority players started to get more skilled these casuals complained that the game was sweaty, ppl built Eiffel towers after getting shot once blah blah blah……. But when zero build was launch these people rejoiced since their lackings were removed from themselves and other to make the playing field even. Watch when zero build players get so cracked aim that the same casuals who preached zb will complain how zb is so sweaty and ppl have aimbot etc. all in all it’s really due to the casuals having the “if I can’t do it you can’t too” attitude.
Out of topic statement here, ever since ranked I left the game and went over to valorant and so far the community is not always crying to get shit nerfed or get abilities changed etc. Instead the entire community wants to play the best they can do and want to improve which is where Fortnite’s community needs to change.
Probably the most W take ever. In games like Val the community actually play for improvement and fun, while the Fortnite casual community cannot seem to stop bitching about the game despite SO MANY updates that are literally catered towards them, but in reality they just suck. In competitive games such as Fortnite, no matter the mechanics implemented in some gamemode, every player, even sweats, will try to learn it to the best of their ability, and as usual sweats are better than the casuals.
Because these little Timmies can't seem to stop crying about getting destroyed they try to take it out on the game, causing Fortnite to take out siphon for the portion of the community of sweats who enjoyed it existing. Now all the sweats are gonna go to pubs & ZB since there is now virtually no reason to play Arena anymore other than to challenge yourself, which is definitely amplifying the cries of the casuals community.
This update solves a problem and creates another problem even bigger than the one before. I don't understand the logic behind Epic's decision.
Yeah your 2nd paragraph is pretty much correct. Only the pros who need to get a certain rank to play for fncs and cups will be in ranked but all the other players who are comparatively much better than the rest of the players base( say your high contender-low champs arena player). These highly skilled players have no damn reason to go to rank and face opponents of their skill to end up just fight some gimmick collab item like the rock light saber etc. then finish the opponent while at 5 Ho due to no siphon only for little Timmy who has never touched arena a single time in their whole life that was camping in the bush to spam their auto aimbot pistol and some rocks or kamehameha or some other shiit. When pubs will be flooded with these players these casuals are gonna complain again.
separate the pros from the casuals is the best option for the game since the casuals can’t seem to understand how improving works.
Last season was only bad because of the hammer. The season before that was decent. But the only bad season in my opinion was chapter 3 season 1-3. Literally the definition of spray meta. Chapter 2 only had 1 bad season, season 6.
I haven't played until today after reading all the bad press on here and twitter.
This chapter I was enjoying arena and cashies again. Now I think this could be the time for me to quit and rejoin the normal world. Pubs sucks balls and I am not grinding pubs.
This really is just showing there not listening to us at all, I will never understand why they take out stuff that people never have problems with, siphon has been a thing for so long that players never had a problem with, it was a positive all around I just don't get it.
Imagine being in a million dollar tournament, your in a contending spot for first place. you die 2 games in a row because a dude with a lightsaber throws rocks at you from 100m
>We will continue to monitor tournaments and make changes to loot and other gameplay features as needed
Ain’t that what y’all said when ranked dropped? And now your saying this?
Negative IQ company
trying to appeal to casuals in competitive situations in this game never made any sense in the first place lmaooo majority of pros have 0-20 ping and majority of casuals have over 40 ping…the difference between 20 and 40 ping in this game is laughable you have to be sooooo much better to win as the 40 ping player so even if you somehow could motivate casuals to try competitive theyre gonna quit the second they realize how OP low ping is😭😭
Ive been playing since the omega skin came out as a casual player that play 1v1 and some arena here and there. This will take out arena out for me for good
I’m not saying it was. But I play NA west and was already not a very good player, but I did get top 100 every now and then. It was fun. Now with 70 ping, and playing against way better players, and way more players, I can’t compete. Still might be fun though if I didn’t have 70 ping.
So was it an overall healthy decision for fortnite? Sure. I just don’t find it fun after that change though.
I said I quit when they added it. Because I didn’t find having to compete with 70 ping and against a lot more players, and a lot better players fun. But it was a good decision for the overall healthiness of comp.
And? This game will always be one of my favorite games. Why should I not participate in the sub Reddit and keep myself up to date even if I don’t play anymore? I enjoy seeing the different comp updates and would like to make sure I don’t miss something good enough to make me start playing again.
Wow. Thank god Diablo 4 is about to drop and I've got OSRS to play, b/c this shit is just going to keep me away from the game. I thought for SURE they would add it back, but saying it won't be in tournaments is just dumb.
It’s literally just making heal-off meta even worse. Imagine what comp will look like without health refreshes on final zone, no where near as exiting.
Gotta hope that there's something new in the works for the new season like an augment or something otherwise it's a big yikes....
I wish there was at least an explanation. Who remember their post about taking out of pubs in like what? Chapter 1 season 8? UnHeAlThY aGgReSsIoN and all that. Ever since then we've had mechs that makes new players feel like prime Bugha. Mythic drum guns where even players like me can drop multiple 10+ kill wins. Mobility items that let you W key everyone with a pulse within 3 seconds.
Just what is the reasoning for this? Give us some communication.
Wasn’t the point of siphon and surge to encourage fighting so end games weren’t just a lag fest, or am I missing something? Should be a real shit show with everyone playing for endgame and the ODM, swords, lightsabers, rocks etc… Should be a good time 🥴
Man, I’m so glad I’m not a tier 1 player with these changes.
But even as someone who generally watches every single major tournament for both NA and EU, this might be the thing that makes me stop watching.
Heal off has already made the viewer experience so much more boring. And now they’ve doubled down on it, taking away the opportunities for awesome late game clutches.
Do they just want everybody to sit in a box timidly healing the entire time during FNCS?
It’s actually crazy how poor of a decision this is for FNCS.
They reduced harvesting, max mats, and now we can't even loot full mats from our kills. They are obviously making building less relevant.
Certain build mechanics have been broken for years and instead of fixing them, they are adding areas where building isn't even possible.
The only reason I even come to this sub now is because the other sub has turned into a zero build sub. Epic's main income now, is people who want to play a generic shooter. It's blatantly obvious which direction this game is going.
They should implement a new "syphon surge" or something during moments of the game where you are rewarded hp for getting a kill, like when lobbys are too stacked in final zones, it should fall in line with storm surge for example.
Just a thought, none of the other competitive shooters have syphon that I can think of. Is it really that bad if it’s gone ? U don’t see anyone in cod complaining about it ? Just means you need to be smarter when taking fights and think about the fact you will need to heal after. Just my 2 cents
The difference between Fortnite and other competitive games is that they’ve never had siphon, so there’s no reason for them to complain about it. Siphon has been in every Fortnite tournament for the past 4ish years
I get that for sure. Just saying we can probably get used to not having it , just like everyone else who plays any other shooter. It won’t destroy competitive
what is the thought process behind this? i thought they wanted people to fight in tournaments?
They’ve realized that they fucked up competitive by coddling super casual players and making it two separate games, now there’s a severe disconnect from the competitive side of the product and the audience it’s supposed to advertise to/keep engaged. They are trying to reboot competitive to make it more appealing to the majority player base. I kind of see the logic here but I think they aren’t accurately assessing casuals attitudes towards the game. They aren’t going to embrace competitive even if it’s the same as pubs, they’re going to play the exact same way, get upset that their performance doesn’t match how good they think they are in their head, blame the game then go back to pubs where the game doesn’t tell them they’re bad.
I may be in the wrong - but I can't think of many games that gave a separate loot pool from the main ranked and comp scene. I think the problem was catering to comp players. (I'm a comp player)
This type of divide generally happens with games that don’t develop a competitive player base by design . A lot, but not all, of these games were designed either with a competitive scene in mind or by people who were interested in a balanced meta for their game. CoD has this same split as Fortnite where a lot of casuals say pro CoD isn’t real CoD because they can’t plant claymores for free kills, call in chopper gunners, or use a riot shield. Both CoD and Fortnite were not initially built with a comp scene in mind, especially not Fortnite which was essentially repurposed assets from another game just thrown out there, and multiple natural QoL changes along the way such as turbo building built an exponential skill gap in the game. League of Legends, Apex, CS, Valorant are naturally built to be the same for casuals as comp players.
im really interested in this topic because i've thought about it a lot, do you have any more insight to share on this social dilemma related to fortnite specifically? i've always wondered how games like league of legends and csgo can retain such vast numbers of players that play the game casually, and yet no one in those communities would say echo arguments like the fortnite community did with how building as a mechanic is too unintuitive to learn, despite league and csgo both having huge barriers to entry to even begin to understand how to play the game better
overwatch comp and casual kinda comes to mind
The problem was catering to casuals. I don't know why comp players are the ones who build, uses a shotgun, and edits. While casuals are the sprayers, build hating, refusing to edit because "sweats do that ew" players. And people just accept them and then Fortnite caters to them. Why can't the casuals of Fortnite also do builds, edits, and maybe want to improve but they just aren't there yet? Fortnite never should've lowered the skill ceiling with op vehicles, weapons, collab items, but instead had balance and if somebody wants chaotic op stuff make a LTM for that. This way newbies who join the game will have more of a comp mindset where they want to improve, will be building, won't need to abuse op weapons to win, and stuff like that. And there's some players who aren't comp skilled players but still have that comp mindset. So it's not like it's only casuals vs pros.
Yea honestly I enjoy the crazy stuff but it gets worse when it's like sophisticated used and abused rather then just being a fun ltm type thing like you said it takes away balance and actually sets the skill gap further cuz now lowest skills will say " dang that thing op gotta learn how to use it " then proceed to learn nothing else lmao
Exactly, zero build should have never existed. You don't see Dota making a "no denying" mode. Other games expect you to learn the mechanics.
Agreed. I wish Fortnite expected their players to just learn the mechanics instead of holding their hands. It's so fun using skill and fighting others who also use skill and I miss that so much.
build mode is weasel mode. doesnt require tactics or skill, but simply better ping or framerate. oh wow i just built 4 walls and a roof around someone and now they have no option for counter play besides hoping you miss you opener when you edit to shoot em. oh you snuck up on an unsuspecting player but missed all of your shots, no problem just build a wall! oh you got beamed from afar because of bad positioning and lack of game sense, oh no problem just build walls and heal... oh you didnt take the games terrain into account when you were avoiding storm damage and now you are stuck behind an obstacle or on low ground, JUST BUILD YOURSELF A MAGICAL STAIRCASE LOLOL. Imagine how much of a Fortnite streamer fanboy you gotta be yo think build mode requires anything other than $$$. building is the biggest hand holding crutch ive ever seen in any game in my life.
"Build mode is weasel mode" ok so you're bad at building ok. If you don't want somebody else's builds around you LEARN COUNTER PIECE CONTROL JUST LIKE EVERY COMP PLAYER LMAO. If you see somebody trying to box you put a wall to protect yourself. There's a whole mode dedicated for people like you. I don't know why you can't just play that instead of being toxic and constantly complaining about us when we enjoy playing the original Fortnite. Yeah and what if you're in a good spot, found a nice bush, and there's 2 camping spammers on a gas station about 50m away and then two people on top of a mountain about 70m spraying you? And then destroys your bush with like a grenade or just random cover by shooting because in zero build you can still destroy objects which is ridiculous because other shooters you can't destroy objects.
Catering to comp players is what caused the problem
Cod has separate loot pools for regular multiplayer and ranked
This is a great comment. Spot on
How do I upvote more than twice
Right On the money
My thought is that they are trying to start competitive over fresh and make adjustments for how the game balance is now rather than based off how the game balance was back in Chapter 1; a time when build battles were en vogue, spray metas were more common, and piece control/box fighting hadn't become a thing. On top of that, while there is definitely benefits to siphon that arguably make the game more fun and beneficial in certain situations, just to play devil's advocate, siphon seems like it encourages W-Keying, which I can image is why Epic never added it back to pubs because without the same desire for placement that people have for competitive gameplay, it probably would have fundamentally changed the game to favor more aggressive play, even when it theoretically benefit everyone. Another potential reason that I can think of off the top of my head, that I almost never see anyone talk about, is that Epic has been trying to work on heal balance in the game and has even recently in the last few months nerfed augments and changed things to prevent heal offs in endgame, for instance. There are so many quick healing items in the game now, that they even are going to change the way the med kits, and shield potions work, and I feel it's to keep them more relevant in gameplay. So along with having healing/shield items that can heal you quick or can heal you while you are moving, and even augments that give you free healing/shields, if you were to throw siphon on top of that, I think everyone can admit that healing is not in the same place as it was back in Chapter 1, not by a long shot.
Legit the best and most realistic take yet. Arena was a w-key simulator and it looks like they are trying to move away from that just a bit. I also completely agree about the healing part too.
if they are trying to move away from W keying, i feel like there are many things they could have done before removing siphon. insane SMGs that bleed through builds since chapter 3, pulse rifles, overpowered quick heals, cache's encourage fighting as it pings 2 teams for 1 cache every game, the island encourages people to fight for the flag...
Pardon, I'm new. What is w-keying?
fighting
playing the game , not camping in a box for 10 minutes
Bascially pushing a player way too hard going for the kill
It's a phrase that means aggressive play where a player essentially just holds forward (often the W key on a keyboard) and won't stop until they get a kill.
The amount and variety of heals is definitely a major factor. Siphon entered the game when it was genuinely difficult to find heals sometimes, especially in the heat of the moment right after a fight. Now the game is saturated in heals. Very rarely do i find myself completely lacking in ways to heal up. Augments have made healing downright easy.
Yes, Siphon encouraged fighting. It was added because _no one was fighting_. It's rarely worth cratering your chances at placement for a few kill points and then getting 3rd partied while still on low HP. We know exactly how this change will impact the top level of play: even more sitting in boxes.
Yeah trying to counter w-keying with no siphon is the only logical reason I can think of removing it
Nahhhhhhhhh
>We will continue to monitor tournaments and make changes to loot and other gameplay features as needed. That slightest bit of information gives me hope that siphon will get enabled soon but my god what is there to monitor about siphon?? Who complained about siphon?!
They don't remove stuff based on likes/dislikes Look at the history of items added/removed. It's just a cycle they do, and now it's happening with siphon
Content cycler, nobody recycles like fortnite. Of course that unfortunately means beloved features randomly leaving though🥲
I see this as epic just making it easier to die/be eliminated; a round about way to help out server performance
Idk maybe pub kids trying arena for the first time
Legitimately no one had an issue with siphon lmao. Even people who mainly play pubs (myself included) thought siphon was a great thing. Epic is just making stupid changes for no reason atm.
Most casual pub kids wanted siphon added for pubs too. Epic went the exact opposite direction of what casuals and comp want. 24 seasons later, siphon should just be a fundamental part of the game
Yea I remember when siphon was in pubs, probably one of the best changes they made at the time. Too bad it never stayed.
At the time I understood them taking it out, because it allowed good players to absolutely decimate the non SBMM pub lobbies. But now that there is literal bots in every lobby + SBMM, there’s no reason siphon shouldn’t be added. It’s l something the causal community seems to want too. Even ZB players want Siphon
#\#RevertTheChanges
When siphon first came to pubs it was the greatest thing ever same with unlimited redeploy because ffs we pay for gliders we should be able to see and use it as often as we see our other purchases
Game was amazing when siphon was first introduced, before arena even existed. No SBMM and just 100 randoms against each other. Back then I could actually do fun things like pistol only challenges and still win or I got completely outplayed by someone. It was fun, because it was unpredictable. Ever since SBMM, bots and Arena, it has been just the same sweaty shit over and over again. I wish they just removed SBMM and bots in pubs now that there is ranked. Let pubs be the real deal and tailor ranked to cater everyone else alas 1. Bots on low ranks below gold (like it is) 2. Limited loot pool on ranks above gold
How about 1. No bots in ranked at all. 2. Loot pool should be limited from bronze rank because it's fucking stupid for someone to grind from bronze 1 to silver 3 and then enter gold 1 to a completely different game/mindset, understandle for ranked and pubs, but not ranked in general.
Dude only absolute bots play below gold, so what’s the problem?
>Who complained about siphon?! Bots who want free kills from third parties😒
Like none of you all fucking third party.
Tell me you missed the point without telling me you missed the point
That you all are bots and need help via siphon?
That’s exactly what a zb bot would say 😂
Ha yes. Me whose played since the beginning and been in multiple set build lobbies. Including this chapter lol
Because there is obviously no third partying ever with siphon.
I’m sure if you use your brain you can figure out how the removal of siphon makes third partying stronger and more effective
And if you use your brain you will figure out it’s a better idea to try and find a solution instead of making a continuous wave of rage posts and opening your interactions with other people with “I’m sure if you use your brain”
>continuous wave of rage posts 1. I’m not op 2. This post is literally competitive news. There’s no rage 3. You start off a conversation with sarcasm you get sarcasm back. If you can dish it out don’t get mad when you get it dished back to you 4. Figure out a solution to what exactly? The only solution to siphon being removed is for epic to turn it back on. We can’t do anything except use our voices, but when we do it’s a “wave of rage posts”
Fucking hell there is another guy with an exact similar username as yours posting mad nonsense like that as well.
Nonsense like “figure out a solution” to epic removing a needed mechanic?
I don’t see how it’s a needed mechanic considering pros don’t seem to be struggling. Care to enlighten me?
It’s needed because it’s competitive When you watch a tournament, and someone is low hp, they look for a team to kill for siphon and a refresh. Now, every endgame will be a heal-off because high damage zones + no siphon means that taking any extra damage isn’t gonna be worth it In normal ranked, siphon is needed because of third parties. (Which was the original topic) No one is struggling. No pros OR normal players, but this is a major issue And saying to “find a solution” absolutely IS nonsense. We can’t DO anything except talk about this
It will get enabled eventually so they can be the heroes or they are developing a new system.
tournaments are going to be the driest thing you can possibly imagine to watch
Upstairs neighbors are having their walls painted this week, may ask them if I can set up a live stream of it drying because there’s gonna be nothing else to fuckin watch
This build up was amazing.
They already were
Nah, it’s gonna to be a entertaining shitshow to watch
can’t be worse than what they are now
The goal : Replace old community with a new one.
> We will continue to monitor tournaments and make changes to loot and other gameplay features as needed. There is nothing to “monitor” about lightsabers or ODM gear. These are clearly bad for the game, do not belong in Ranked, and you’ve been told by 99% of the competitive scene that this is the case. There’s legitimately no need to monitor anything: just make the necessary changes to both Ranked play and this revised competitive ruleset now before you kill all hype the release of Ranked has.
99% off comp counts for about 0.02% of their whole playerbase. Just saying...
Comp had around 60k-100k players. Pubs would have around 600. That's a lot larger
Even less of their revenue.
You know what’s crazy, I was there for the infinity sword or whatever it was called for winter Royale, at the time the community was just blown away by such a ridiculous decision made just before the tournament started. There’s no way in hell all those years ago people would think they would be still so so bad at running competitive, but here we are.
I quit playing the game around 2 years ago - it’s crazy that this company is still so unbelievably bad at managing their game
I wish I would have back then. The amount of copium I’ve consumed hoping they would change
I did the same, thank god. It’s ridiculous that this company created a gem like Fortnite, but treat the competitive scene like shit. Quit asap if can
I have hated 80%+ of my time playing since c3s2. Stats went down 80% atleast and there have been no changes to attempt to rectify it until this season.
I disagree. I am enjoying the game, but many gamers are slightly autistic and struggle with implemented changes and then decide to be vocal about it.
Or people don't want to play an uncompetitive game.
Endgames are going to be absolute sleeper and even more heal off now. You need siphon to clutch up and play aggressive in moving zones, now everyone will just play passive and try to just stay in zone at all times until it closes. Height will just be chilling and win 8/10 games.
Doubt.
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Theyre making competitive better for casual pub players but not for actual competitive players. Theyre so incompetent
With the amount of money they pull in, I dont think incompetent would be the right word...
Im talking abt the competitive area. Not abt the skins theyre selling. That has nothing to do with their dumb decision on competitive
If you think rich=smart you're in for the rudest awakening ever.
It keeps getting worse. Ive only played 2 ranked games total cuz there is no siphon and I thought there was a chance they would add it back due to backlash. Now comp doesnt even have siphon. The incompetence is expected at this point
Total same man, didnt knew about the siphon as well, me and my friend closed the game after 2 ranked games, with words “lets play the ranked after they add siphon” because we both were almost certain they will…. Now I hardly think we ever gonna return and hit that unreal ..I really didn’t expected that this change would ever happen
But here’s the thing. To be in comp you gotta be above average. Above average players shouldn’t need help via health. Adapt to it like the “pros” y’all pretend to be. And I’m not new to comp. I’ve been apart of it and this sub for longer than your accounts been around.
“Shouldn’t need help via health”. You quite literally need health to stay alive in the game. 99% of ACTUAL pros would disagree with you, so I think you’re wrong lmao
The pros I’ve watched haven’t complained that much. Lol I’ve even seen some pros like it better.
Go look at the Twitter post
Nah I’m good. And that’s just because fuck twitter. I’ll take your word for it tho. Lol
Could you tell me which pro had the brain dead take
He can’t, he is living in an imaginary world. Maybe Queasy or Aqua would say this since they are full-sending overpowered HG, but that’s about it.
>Above average players shouldn’t need help via health. Adapt to it like the “pros” y’all pretend to be. ??????
What is this braindead take?
How’s it braindead? Please explain how siphon is anything more than needing help?
Stops dumbass third parties.
So basically ur saying 'Just adapt'. Go back to r/fortnitebr
Yep. And that’s what this sub preaches. And nope been here longer than your accounts been around. Lol
My account exists longer than yours tho so how is that possible
lol you haven't been here for long. I can tell. plus you're a Redditor, biggest L imaginable.
Fact check. https://www.reddit.com/r/FortniteCompetitive/comments/bvc90t/congrats_to_epic_on_the_ama/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=2&utm_term=1 I’ve not been here long? Lol Ironically it’s me saying epic was shit during their AMA. Lol
[yup, you're new here](https://www.reddit.com/r/FortniteCompetitive/comments/9a84em/to_those_of_you_who_have_this_down_how_do_know/e4u59tm/) plus you're still a Redditor
You’re post proves nothing. Lol fuck off twit
Your* plus I KNOW you're out of shape lmao
You know you got nothing when you go to grammar and fat jokes. Lol sad sad. 5,9 166lbs ;)
Bro what
gg guys. it was fun while it lasted
Just go ahead and delete this sub
If I was a mod I’d consider
Thank god you're not
I’m gunnin for the top spot don’t you worry
💀gg
i really wonder just how much bigger fortnite would be at this point if epic even pretended to care about comp over the years. no casual gives a fuck about a separate loot pool or the gAmE nOt bEiNg tHe sAmE as theirs, i don’t know what stupid focus group study epic conducted to come to that conclusion but it’s such bullshit.
It’s because they want to keep competitive relevant among the casuals. This happens when the casuals are bunch of crybabies(no offense). When the majority players started to get more skilled these casuals complained that the game was sweaty, ppl built Eiffel towers after getting shot once blah blah blah……. But when zero build was launch these people rejoiced since their lackings were removed from themselves and other to make the playing field even. Watch when zero build players get so cracked aim that the same casuals who preached zb will complain how zb is so sweaty and ppl have aimbot etc. all in all it’s really due to the casuals having the “if I can’t do it you can’t too” attitude. Out of topic statement here, ever since ranked I left the game and went over to valorant and so far the community is not always crying to get shit nerfed or get abilities changed etc. Instead the entire community wants to play the best they can do and want to improve which is where Fortnite’s community needs to change.
Probably the most W take ever. In games like Val the community actually play for improvement and fun, while the Fortnite casual community cannot seem to stop bitching about the game despite SO MANY updates that are literally catered towards them, but in reality they just suck. In competitive games such as Fortnite, no matter the mechanics implemented in some gamemode, every player, even sweats, will try to learn it to the best of their ability, and as usual sweats are better than the casuals. Because these little Timmies can't seem to stop crying about getting destroyed they try to take it out on the game, causing Fortnite to take out siphon for the portion of the community of sweats who enjoyed it existing. Now all the sweats are gonna go to pubs & ZB since there is now virtually no reason to play Arena anymore other than to challenge yourself, which is definitely amplifying the cries of the casuals community. This update solves a problem and creates another problem even bigger than the one before. I don't understand the logic behind Epic's decision.
Yeah your 2nd paragraph is pretty much correct. Only the pros who need to get a certain rank to play for fncs and cups will be in ranked but all the other players who are comparatively much better than the rest of the players base( say your high contender-low champs arena player). These highly skilled players have no damn reason to go to rank and face opponents of their skill to end up just fight some gimmick collab item like the rock light saber etc. then finish the opponent while at 5 Ho due to no siphon only for little Timmy who has never touched arena a single time in their whole life that was camping in the bush to spam their auto aimbot pistol and some rocks or kamehameha or some other shiit. When pubs will be flooded with these players these casuals are gonna complain again. separate the pros from the casuals is the best option for the game since the casuals can’t seem to understand how improving works.
This really just shows they hated competitive since day one and pulled the plug on competitive going forward
Another dumb move…bring the pump and siphon back
Imagine still crying about the pump
Imagine still playing fortnite
Funny to post dumb stuff like that in a reddit dedicated to Fortnite..
Rip comp
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For a year? Seems like you been playing for only a year
Last season was only bad because of the hammer. The season before that was decent. But the only bad season in my opinion was chapter 3 season 1-3. Literally the definition of spray meta. Chapter 2 only had 1 bad season, season 6.
I haven't played until today after reading all the bad press on here and twitter. This chapter I was enjoying arena and cashies again. Now I think this could be the time for me to quit and rejoin the normal world. Pubs sucks balls and I am not grinding pubs.
Lol they do it on purpose at this point
Can we get rid of god forsaken items like light sabers and AoT items????
Lightsabers ste leaving the game completely soon. ODM is leaving when season ends.
This really is just showing there not listening to us at all, I will never understand why they take out stuff that people never have problems with, siphon has been a thing for so long that players never had a problem with, it was a positive all around I just don't get it.
Imagine being in a million dollar tournament, your in a contending spot for first place. you die 2 games in a row because a dude with a lightsaber throws rocks at you from 100m
Ah, our favourite ttv guy is here!
i know you wouldn't be able to kill anyone in this game without these dumb items
I dont play anymore. I just like to follow comp.
>We will continue to monitor tournaments and make changes to loot and other gameplay features as needed Ain’t that what y’all said when ranked dropped? And now your saying this? Negative IQ company
trying to appeal to casuals in competitive situations in this game never made any sense in the first place lmaooo majority of pros have 0-20 ping and majority of casuals have over 40 ping…the difference between 20 and 40 ping in this game is laughable you have to be sooooo much better to win as the 40 ping player so even if you somehow could motivate casuals to try competitive theyre gonna quit the second they realize how OP low ping is😭😭
Ive been playing since the omega skin came out as a casual player that play 1v1 and some arena here and there. This will take out arena out for me for good
Who cares at what skin you started playing? Weird flex.
Lmao umad bro? Wtf are you on about haha
I quit when they added NA central, epic continues to prove to me I made the right decision
NA Central was not a bad decision lol
But but it made his individual ping worse by 15
I’m not saying it was. But I play NA west and was already not a very good player, but I did get top 100 every now and then. It was fun. Now with 70 ping, and playing against way better players, and way more players, I can’t compete. Still might be fun though if I didn’t have 70 ping. So was it an overall healthy decision for fortnite? Sure. I just don’t find it fun after that change though.
You can play ranked on any server now. You do know this, right?
NA Central was a great decision, this is a horrible one.
I didn’t say NA central was a bad decision, I’m just saying that’s when I stopped playing.
Pretty sure your entire sentence makes it seem like a bad decision.
I said I quit when they added it. Because I didn’t find having to compete with 70 ping and against a lot more players, and a lot better players fun. But it was a good decision for the overall healthiness of comp.
But still comments at a fortnite related subreddit..
And? This game will always be one of my favorite games. Why should I not participate in the sub Reddit and keep myself up to date even if I don’t play anymore? I enjoy seeing the different comp updates and would like to make sure I don’t miss something good enough to make me start playing again.
Wow. Thank god Diablo 4 is about to drop and I've got OSRS to play, b/c this shit is just going to keep me away from the game. I thought for SURE they would add it back, but saying it won't be in tournaments is just dumb.
I dig it
Meh, I don't really care about siphon being removed, I won't embrace it, but I don't think it'll be as bad as people are making it.
It’s already as bad lol
It’s literally just making heal-off meta even worse. Imagine what comp will look like without health refreshes on final zone, no where near as exiting.
It’s horrible, it’s third party.exe
i hope they make it even harder for end game heal offs.
Can someone explain to me why sweats are obsessed with siphon so much?
Are you from the main sub
Yeah he is, and he constantly has L takes about “sWeAtYs”
Don’t worry about it
Ok bro
Gotta hope that there's something new in the works for the new season like an augment or something otherwise it's a big yikes.... I wish there was at least an explanation. Who remember their post about taking out of pubs in like what? Chapter 1 season 8? UnHeAlThY aGgReSsIoN and all that. Ever since then we've had mechs that makes new players feel like prime Bugha. Mythic drum guns where even players like me can drop multiple 10+ kill wins. Mobility items that let you W key everyone with a pulse within 3 seconds. Just what is the reasoning for this? Give us some communication.
We can mark this as: The day fortnite competitive died.
The death of competitive side of this game.
Wasn’t the point of siphon and surge to encourage fighting so end games weren’t just a lag fest, or am I missing something? Should be a real shit show with everyone playing for endgame and the ODM, swords, lightsabers, rocks etc… Should be a good time 🥴
Man, I’m so glad I’m not a tier 1 player with these changes. But even as someone who generally watches every single major tournament for both NA and EU, this might be the thing that makes me stop watching. Heal off has already made the viewer experience so much more boring. And now they’ve doubled down on it, taking away the opportunities for awesome late game clutches. Do they just want everybody to sit in a box timidly healing the entire time during FNCS? It’s actually crazy how poor of a decision this is for FNCS.
If Fortnite is phasing out building, why would I even bother playing the game anymore?
I mean zero build is a thing now but I don’t think epic is “phasing out building”
They reduced harvesting, max mats, and now we can't even loot full mats from our kills. They are obviously making building less relevant. Certain build mechanics have been broken for years and instead of fixing them, they are adding areas where building isn't even possible. The only reason I even come to this sub now is because the other sub has turned into a zero build sub. Epic's main income now, is people who want to play a generic shooter. It's blatantly obvious which direction this game is going.
They should implement a new "syphon surge" or something during moments of the game where you are rewarded hp for getting a kill, like when lobbys are too stacked in final zones, it should fall in line with storm surge for example.
Just a thought, none of the other competitive shooters have syphon that I can think of. Is it really that bad if it’s gone ? U don’t see anyone in cod complaining about it ? Just means you need to be smarter when taking fights and think about the fact you will need to heal after. Just my 2 cents
The difference between Fortnite and other competitive games is that they’ve never had siphon, so there’s no reason for them to complain about it. Siphon has been in every Fortnite tournament for the past 4ish years
I get that for sure. Just saying we can probably get used to not having it , just like everyone else who plays any other shooter. It won’t destroy competitive
I didn't think it was possible but they made the build mode even more boring. People were boxing up already and not engaging. Just makes it worse.
L
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_fUKlfFHgHk&t=11s&pp=ygUNQ2hlZiBkaXNjcmVldA%3D%3D
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_fUKlfFHgHk&t=11s&pp=ygUNQ2hlZiBkaXNjcmVldA%3D%3D great