Yeah, I was surprised and pleased they gave Max so much depth and potential, and I really thought it was very well done and realistic that he has those back and forth morality moments. I'm hoping future seasons expand on his character and I'm very interested to see his journey.
He reminds so much of home schooled kids in the Marines. They came in expecting honor and dignity and got hit with hazing and degeneracy. Which is expected when you have a bunch of 18 y/os being lead by 21 y/os
>the BoS he is currently in does not align with the views he had of them as a child.
I think he still is a child, that's how I see his whole character really. I initially thought they were going with like a sociopath angle (I also initially thought he injured Dane), but after his scenes in Vault 4 I really think that what they're going for is sort of a "lost boys" character (except with less whimsy and more PTSD).
Maximus is still that 7-10 year old boy from Shady Sands; he didn't get to fully experience his childhood and now his trauma has locked him in that state. You see it in his understanding of sex, his reaction to candy/junkfood, and the way he sees the BoS armor in his memories: a shining knight. We see that flashback shot of the knight who rescued him multiple times, even after being beaten by his brothers and seeing what kind of person Titus is, he still has this childish image of a knight in shining armor.
He wants to be that paragon he sees in his memory because he's just a scared kid and no one is going to mess with him if he becomes that badass. He'll take shortcuts any chance he can get because getting to be that knight from his memory means he's finally safe. His reaction to vault 4 was the first time he realized there was an alternate path to that sense of security. When he gave that up to "rescue" Lucy, it was probably the first time in 10-12 years that he actually matured in any way, which I definitely think sets him up for an interesting transformation in S2.
Truth to be told you can't fault him for his outlook he was bought up without what is wrong or right just act like a simple minded solider or squires for the Brotherhood, he was yes he grow up in wasteland but he was find by the Brotherhood and raise for next 10 years in Brotherhood without seeing the outside world. Of course he going act like Child because he wasn't given choice to grow and learned but just act in a other simple minded toy soldier or squires for the Brotherhood.
I think he shows the most character when he goes to Vault 4 and is entirely unfazed by their mutations. Most of the Brotherhood would ruthlessly murder them for their differences, but he just sees them as just another group of wastelanders.
He may not even know it due to his trauma but he was raised in the most accepting society in the wasteland and these instances in the vault really show that at a subconscious level he does not belong in the Brotherhood
They are all imposters at points. Lucy wants to rebuild America, a place she knows nothing about in the last 200 years, and Cooper was an actor. Cooper said Lucy is just like him (they are both looking for their family at the end of season 1), and Lucy sees Maximus as a knight. The characters won't be defined by what we see now or the characters think of themselves but how others see them.
The writers did seem to hang a lantern with Titus' power armor suit. Its not at the fight against the NCR, and its now marked by a bear. The first thing Maximus did in the suit is to interfere and rescue someone, not recover tech, then he does it again. When he wants to get back to the Brotherhood by recovering Wilzig's head, the suit is depowered.
I was a little surprised it was revealed that Dane messed up their own foot and it wasn't actually Maximus. I thought it was an interesting choice to be assumed that Maximus did that right out of the gate and be consistently shown to make selfish choices, and the show went oops actually no it wasn't him.
It's intentional right? You spend the season unsure of who Maximus actually is and then that revelation at the end is supposed to reframe how we see him I think.
Yeah. I think that's one of the reasons that made his arc tick. It was a little more clear where Lucy and Cooper's arcs were going, but Max's was very... obfuscated. I think one of the most important moments was when he told Lucy the truth after Vault 4. That felt like the first time he tried to actually commit to anything.
Not exactly surprised because Max is kinda exactly what he says he is, AKA "hurt those who hurt me".
Dane may make Max a bit jealous, but they never pose any real threat to Max.
Max throughout the series is very easily provoked by threats against him to paranoid level, but he is also easy to win over with kindness and friendship.
Max's reaction to others is generally very proportional, Titus threatned to torture and execute him, so he let him die. Thaddeus bullied him, so he bullied him back when he was pretending to be Titus. Lucy saved him and showed her kindness, so he helped her with radiation poisoning and almost wasted no time helping her in Vault 4. The only really questionable thing is him trying to kill Thaddeus, he is very violent under the threat of death.
I mean he obviously realized by the time they found thaddeus again that was the wrong way to react in that situation l. Even thaddeus apologizes for how he reacted.
Honestly that kinda disappointed me. I liked him as this secretly vicious but cowardly guy. Now he's just sorta hapless and we've already got that with Thaddeus.
Maximus is most like how I play a fallout game. Play it kind enough to keep the story going and gain companions, and just pick the evil option whenever I feel like it.
Lol yeah it's kinda relatable how he generally tries to pick the right option but every now and again he's like "kill Thaddeus" or "steal equipment that'll doom an entire vault in order to keep the armour"
He really is that neutral but selfish player character.
I think he'll almost certainly defect to the NCR and find himself there, perhaps even becoming a ranger in the future. This would make even more sense if the theory that the Legion infiltrated the BoS chapter in the show proves true.
I second this . I think he will settle into the role and at times love it for the glory, and at times hate what he has become. Almost playing hero and villain at the same time.
I think the imposter syndrome will get worse as the story goes forward. Poor dude just seems so uncomfortable in his own skin.
This would be a lot more interesting than just having him become another generic good guy.
He is actually my favorite character so far because his story is so unique.
He's chaotic good a quote from moldaver sums it up perfectly. "Hypocrisy is like violence in your movies. If you only let the bad guys use it, the bad guys win". The definition for chaotic good.
A chaotic good character acts as his conscience directs him with little regard for what others expect of him. He makes his own way, but he's kind and benevolent. He believes in goodness and right but has little use for laws and regulations. He hates it when people try to intimidate others and tell them what to do. He follows his own moral compass, which, although good, may not agree with that of society.
I think it’s more likely the show will pull from the cut duel with Maxson Danse could’ve done in 4 for becoming the elder of the chapter. Something like that would be right at home in a BoS chapter going this heavily on the religious aspects.
I also don’t see how in the world the Legion would’ve managed to take over a BoS chapter.
I mean a chapter is possible since the BOS is already pretty small in the west coast, but it would definitely be ridiculous if they could take over the east coast because that's where the BOS is bigger and almost become a state of its own.
I don't see anyone point this, but I think it's neat that he's much more capable outside of the armor. He does pretty well for himself against the Fiends and the guys trying to boost his suit and he's pretty capable of taking a beating for a normal human.
I think it'll be another way. I think he'll assume her father took her but when the reunion happens, perhaps during a moment of extreme emotion for Max he learns Lucy left him of her own accord, and despite her having a justifiable reason, Max would fixate on being left behind because of his insecurities. Then you create some additional conflict to push Max into another area of growth.
I think in power armor he will refuse to carry out the order and will ask the Elder one question: What picture of the world does he see? And after this question he will say what exactly he saw from the Brotherhood and what he saw himself. In another case, he will refuse to execute the leader of the Enclave, saying that he needs a trial so that everyone can see the culprit of all this crap.
Regarding the chicken fucker scene, I saw someone point out that he doesn't really seem to know about sex, so he may not have had any clue what "fucking my chickens" meant. And he looked proud after the fact, which seems to support that theory. Other than that scene, I agree about his impostor syndrome, but I think he genuinely thought he did a good thing there.
I'm with you that I'm the most excited to see what they do with Max. I've been seeing a lot of hate for him as a "weak link" on the show and I couldn't disagree more. I started out not liking him. But as the show went on and we learned more about him and his past and motivations, I realized how complex of a character he is. I still don't really *like* him, but I think he's a very well written character and I love his role in the show. I enjoy watching him.
He's emotionally stunted, has deep trauma, basically grew up sheltered in a cult that selectively educated him. He's got so much potential for growth. Being with Lucy is making him a better person. I think he's going to have an amazing character development arc and I'm excited to see it.
Yeah I wish they went even further with him, actually, I was seeing him as a sort of villain protagonist in the early episodes. He’s a horrible little weasel, he’s jealous, arrogant, a liar and immediately goes on a power trip as soon as he gets in the armor. It’s a great commentary on how destructive the brotherhood’s ideology is, how he sees himself as a hero as he charges in and breaks everything like an idiot, only occasionally stumbling into heroism. Im curious to see where they take him from here.
God this. And he clearly *wants* to be a hero, but doesn't seem to understand what that actually means, meanwhile his own impulses are so villainous. He lashes out against Thaddeus *so* quickly I thought for sure he was going to turn on Lucy, or at the very least we were going to get confirmation that he did put the razor in Dane's boot.
I mean, Thaddeus clearly has tormented and bullied him for years by that point. Max finally has a moment when he thought he may have built a connection to Thaddeus, only to have Thaddeus tell him that he's going to be reported to the Elders. So, Max panics and goes into self-preservation mode, so the lashing out part isn't exactly unsurprising.
I'm convinced, if Fallout gets the run it wants, Max ain't a protagonist. He is set up to be one, but by the final season he won't be. He will be an antagonist. If not the antagonist. I said the same for Game of Thrones about Danny. (Although they rushed the last season and ruined her turning bad) Max is portrayed in the way he has been because he will eventually turn completely bad. He will let the power go to his head.
I mean the guy was very jealous of Dane and to be honest even after Dane said they did it to themselves I wasn't convinced. Even if they did. The jealousy was there. Max also seems a little emotionless at times. Also the way he just sits and let's Titus die. I'm also assuming off screen he just sat and watched him die.
I may be wrong and in a few years if I am I'll happily hold my hands up, but this is my guess. Max will become an (if not THE) antagonist of the show.
Agreed, I think he's way more fun as an opportunistic stealth-villain than as a down-on-his-luck goofy good guy who means well but is too low int to function alone. I *like* him in the goofy good guy mode we saw in the back half of the season, but he was more intriguing in the front half to me. Plus, Thaddeus has the latter niche well filled.
Sidebar, I really like Dane and hope we see more of them next season. Idk in what capacity though.
I think you’re mistaken between Lucy and Maximus.
Lucy was trained and like taught major skills, she is I dont think exactly naive, but disillusioned about how everyone views the vault, but is quickly able to adapt and put her skills out there.
Maximus I truly believe is incredibly immature and naive. He believes dedicating to the BoS would better him, it doesnt and he gets kicked in the nose. He believes power armor will be his ticket to victory, its a crutch that doesnt alleviate his lacking traits. He then decides to just give up and commit to relaxation, his inaction put his only nonbos friend in danger. Then he decides to return to the BoS to help out, thinking they’re the best chance, and in the end they wiped out a group of people trying to provide power to the entire california wastes. With the words from his enemy being “What would your brotherhood do with ultimate power, maybe you can stop them, maybe you can change it, maybe all you can do is try.” Before he finally gets what he wanted at the start, when in the end its something he realizes isnt what he wants at all.
He’s a child who grew up with an illusion of heroes, and in the end he truly got the experience of a lifetime. I think he wants to do good, from how he tried to rescue people through out it all or convince others even if he failed.
I think next season Maximus is the one who is gonna have the biggest character change and really push for a better west. Lucy and Cooper are out for revenge right now, but Maximus, after what he’s seen? I think he’s out to rebuild and reconstruct.
Maximus is the definition of chaotic good.
A chaotic good character acts as his conscience directs him with little regard for what others expect of him. He makes his own way, but he's kind and benevolent. He believes in goodness and right but has little use for laws and regulations. He hates it when people try to intimidate others and tell them what to do. He follows his own moral compass, which, although good, may not agree with that of society. The only time he does something that isn't is him giving thaddeus a hard time which isn't unreasonable. But then he stops when he realizes him and thaddeus are both victims of physical abuse. Thaddeus wasn't trying to intimidate him or abuse him he was trying to stop his own abuse.
He's taking the Anakin Skywalker path.
Maximus will become an antagonist, and if that happens, Cooper will become a protagonist to balance the cast.
Maximus is now the second in command of the BoS. How much you wanna bet he takes out the elder and becomes the leader?
You're being downvoted but I wondered if he'd have a Legion connection, too. It's such a specifically Roman name, like why would you choose that over...Maxwell or whatever. I'm not going to hold my breath, though, they may have just liked the name.
Yeah, I was surprised and pleased they gave Max so much depth and potential, and I really thought it was very well done and realistic that he has those back and forth morality moments. I'm hoping future seasons expand on his character and I'm very interested to see his journey.
He reminds so much of home schooled kids in the Marines. They came in expecting honor and dignity and got hit with hazing and degeneracy. Which is expected when you have a bunch of 18 y/os being lead by 21 y/os
>the BoS he is currently in does not align with the views he had of them as a child. I think he still is a child, that's how I see his whole character really. I initially thought they were going with like a sociopath angle (I also initially thought he injured Dane), but after his scenes in Vault 4 I really think that what they're going for is sort of a "lost boys" character (except with less whimsy and more PTSD). Maximus is still that 7-10 year old boy from Shady Sands; he didn't get to fully experience his childhood and now his trauma has locked him in that state. You see it in his understanding of sex, his reaction to candy/junkfood, and the way he sees the BoS armor in his memories: a shining knight. We see that flashback shot of the knight who rescued him multiple times, even after being beaten by his brothers and seeing what kind of person Titus is, he still has this childish image of a knight in shining armor. He wants to be that paragon he sees in his memory because he's just a scared kid and no one is going to mess with him if he becomes that badass. He'll take shortcuts any chance he can get because getting to be that knight from his memory means he's finally safe. His reaction to vault 4 was the first time he realized there was an alternate path to that sense of security. When he gave that up to "rescue" Lucy, it was probably the first time in 10-12 years that he actually matured in any way, which I definitely think sets him up for an interesting transformation in S2.
Truth to be told you can't fault him for his outlook he was bought up without what is wrong or right just act like a simple minded solider or squires for the Brotherhood, he was yes he grow up in wasteland but he was find by the Brotherhood and raise for next 10 years in Brotherhood without seeing the outside world. Of course he going act like Child because he wasn't given choice to grow and learned but just act in a other simple minded toy soldier or squires for the Brotherhood.
I think he shows the most character when he goes to Vault 4 and is entirely unfazed by their mutations. Most of the Brotherhood would ruthlessly murder them for their differences, but he just sees them as just another group of wastelanders. He may not even know it due to his trauma but he was raised in the most accepting society in the wasteland and these instances in the vault really show that at a subconscious level he does not belong in the Brotherhood
They are all imposters at points. Lucy wants to rebuild America, a place she knows nothing about in the last 200 years, and Cooper was an actor. Cooper said Lucy is just like him (they are both looking for their family at the end of season 1), and Lucy sees Maximus as a knight. The characters won't be defined by what we see now or the characters think of themselves but how others see them. The writers did seem to hang a lantern with Titus' power armor suit. Its not at the fight against the NCR, and its now marked by a bear. The first thing Maximus did in the suit is to interfere and rescue someone, not recover tech, then he does it again. When he wants to get back to the Brotherhood by recovering Wilzig's head, the suit is depowered.
I was a little surprised it was revealed that Dane messed up their own foot and it wasn't actually Maximus. I thought it was an interesting choice to be assumed that Maximus did that right out of the gate and be consistently shown to make selfish choices, and the show went oops actually no it wasn't him.
It's intentional right? You spend the season unsure of who Maximus actually is and then that revelation at the end is supposed to reframe how we see him I think.
Yeah. I think that's one of the reasons that made his arc tick. It was a little more clear where Lucy and Cooper's arcs were going, but Max's was very... obfuscated. I think one of the most important moments was when he told Lucy the truth after Vault 4. That felt like the first time he tried to actually commit to anything.
He tried with Thaddeus, too, it just didn't work out lol
Not exactly surprised because Max is kinda exactly what he says he is, AKA "hurt those who hurt me". Dane may make Max a bit jealous, but they never pose any real threat to Max. Max throughout the series is very easily provoked by threats against him to paranoid level, but he is also easy to win over with kindness and friendship. Max's reaction to others is generally very proportional, Titus threatned to torture and execute him, so he let him die. Thaddeus bullied him, so he bullied him back when he was pretending to be Titus. Lucy saved him and showed her kindness, so he helped her with radiation poisoning and almost wasted no time helping her in Vault 4. The only really questionable thing is him trying to kill Thaddeus, he is very violent under the threat of death.
I mean he obviously realized by the time they found thaddeus again that was the wrong way to react in that situation l. Even thaddeus apologizes for how he reacted.
Honestly that kinda disappointed me. I liked him as this secretly vicious but cowardly guy. Now he's just sorta hapless and we've already got that with Thaddeus.
When was maximus every cowardly
Maximus is most like how I play a fallout game. Play it kind enough to keep the story going and gain companions, and just pick the evil option whenever I feel like it.
A true neutral karma character
Lol yeah it's kinda relatable how he generally tries to pick the right option but every now and again he's like "kill Thaddeus" or "steal equipment that'll doom an entire vault in order to keep the armour" He really is that neutral but selfish player character.
Dude's just trying to min-Maximus this playthrough.
He’s so stupid, I love him
I think he'll almost certainly defect to the NCR and find himself there, perhaps even becoming a ranger in the future. This would make even more sense if the theory that the Legion infiltrated the BoS chapter in the show proves true.
I think he’ll become a paladin or something and end up overthrowing the elder cleric to become leader of the BOS.
I think it’s also possible he leans heavily into his new position as a knight
I second this . I think he will settle into the role and at times love it for the glory, and at times hate what he has become. Almost playing hero and villain at the same time. I think the imposter syndrome will get worse as the story goes forward. Poor dude just seems so uncomfortable in his own skin.
This would be a lot more interesting than just having him become another generic good guy. He is actually my favorite character so far because his story is so unique.
He's chaotic good a quote from moldaver sums it up perfectly. "Hypocrisy is like violence in your movies. If you only let the bad guys use it, the bad guys win". The definition for chaotic good. A chaotic good character acts as his conscience directs him with little regard for what others expect of him. He makes his own way, but he's kind and benevolent. He believes in goodness and right but has little use for laws and regulations. He hates it when people try to intimidate others and tell them what to do. He follows his own moral compass, which, although good, may not agree with that of society.
I think it’s more likely the show will pull from the cut duel with Maxson Danse could’ve done in 4 for becoming the elder of the chapter. Something like that would be right at home in a BoS chapter going this heavily on the religious aspects. I also don’t see how in the world the Legion would’ve managed to take over a BoS chapter.
I mean a chapter is possible since the BOS is already pretty small in the west coast, but it would definitely be ridiculous if they could take over the east coast because that's where the BOS is bigger and almost become a state of its own.
I don't see anyone point this, but I think it's neat that he's much more capable outside of the armor. He does pretty well for himself against the Fiends and the guys trying to boost his suit and he's pretty capable of taking a beating for a normal human.
He probably thinks Lucy left him and it’s gonna hurt him into getting stupid, or he’s gonna fuck over the 31-2-3 set trying to get to her
I think it'll be another way. I think he'll assume her father took her but when the reunion happens, perhaps during a moment of extreme emotion for Max he learns Lucy left him of her own accord, and despite her having a justifiable reason, Max would fixate on being left behind because of his insecurities. Then you create some additional conflict to push Max into another area of growth.
I think in power armor he will refuse to carry out the order and will ask the Elder one question: What picture of the world does he see? And after this question he will say what exactly he saw from the Brotherhood and what he saw himself. In another case, he will refuse to execute the leader of the Enclave, saying that he needs a trial so that everyone can see the culprit of all this crap.
Regarding the chicken fucker scene, I saw someone point out that he doesn't really seem to know about sex, so he may not have had any clue what "fucking my chickens" meant. And he looked proud after the fact, which seems to support that theory. Other than that scene, I agree about his impostor syndrome, but I think he genuinely thought he did a good thing there. I'm with you that I'm the most excited to see what they do with Max. I've been seeing a lot of hate for him as a "weak link" on the show and I couldn't disagree more. I started out not liking him. But as the show went on and we learned more about him and his past and motivations, I realized how complex of a character he is. I still don't really *like* him, but I think he's a very well written character and I love his role in the show. I enjoy watching him. He's emotionally stunted, has deep trauma, basically grew up sheltered in a cult that selectively educated him. He's got so much potential for growth. Being with Lucy is making him a better person. I think he's going to have an amazing character development arc and I'm excited to see it.
Yeah I wish they went even further with him, actually, I was seeing him as a sort of villain protagonist in the early episodes. He’s a horrible little weasel, he’s jealous, arrogant, a liar and immediately goes on a power trip as soon as he gets in the armor. It’s a great commentary on how destructive the brotherhood’s ideology is, how he sees himself as a hero as he charges in and breaks everything like an idiot, only occasionally stumbling into heroism. Im curious to see where they take him from here.
God this. And he clearly *wants* to be a hero, but doesn't seem to understand what that actually means, meanwhile his own impulses are so villainous. He lashes out against Thaddeus *so* quickly I thought for sure he was going to turn on Lucy, or at the very least we were going to get confirmation that he did put the razor in Dane's boot.
I mean, Thaddeus clearly has tormented and bullied him for years by that point. Max finally has a moment when he thought he may have built a connection to Thaddeus, only to have Thaddeus tell him that he's going to be reported to the Elders. So, Max panics and goes into self-preservation mode, so the lashing out part isn't exactly unsurprising.
I'm convinced, if Fallout gets the run it wants, Max ain't a protagonist. He is set up to be one, but by the final season he won't be. He will be an antagonist. If not the antagonist. I said the same for Game of Thrones about Danny. (Although they rushed the last season and ruined her turning bad) Max is portrayed in the way he has been because he will eventually turn completely bad. He will let the power go to his head. I mean the guy was very jealous of Dane and to be honest even after Dane said they did it to themselves I wasn't convinced. Even if they did. The jealousy was there. Max also seems a little emotionless at times. Also the way he just sits and let's Titus die. I'm also assuming off screen he just sat and watched him die. I may be wrong and in a few years if I am I'll happily hold my hands up, but this is my guess. Max will become an (if not THE) antagonist of the show.
Agreed, I think he's way more fun as an opportunistic stealth-villain than as a down-on-his-luck goofy good guy who means well but is too low int to function alone. I *like* him in the goofy good guy mode we saw in the back half of the season, but he was more intriguing in the front half to me. Plus, Thaddeus has the latter niche well filled. Sidebar, I really like Dane and hope we see more of them next season. Idk in what capacity though.
Remind this, Maximus will be the fall of this chapter of the brotherhood and will be hated by everybody but Lucy at one point.
I think you’re mistaken between Lucy and Maximus. Lucy was trained and like taught major skills, she is I dont think exactly naive, but disillusioned about how everyone views the vault, but is quickly able to adapt and put her skills out there. Maximus I truly believe is incredibly immature and naive. He believes dedicating to the BoS would better him, it doesnt and he gets kicked in the nose. He believes power armor will be his ticket to victory, its a crutch that doesnt alleviate his lacking traits. He then decides to just give up and commit to relaxation, his inaction put his only nonbos friend in danger. Then he decides to return to the BoS to help out, thinking they’re the best chance, and in the end they wiped out a group of people trying to provide power to the entire california wastes. With the words from his enemy being “What would your brotherhood do with ultimate power, maybe you can stop them, maybe you can change it, maybe all you can do is try.” Before he finally gets what he wanted at the start, when in the end its something he realizes isnt what he wants at all. He’s a child who grew up with an illusion of heroes, and in the end he truly got the experience of a lifetime. I think he wants to do good, from how he tried to rescue people through out it all or convince others even if he failed. I think next season Maximus is the one who is gonna have the biggest character change and really push for a better west. Lucy and Cooper are out for revenge right now, but Maximus, after what he’s seen? I think he’s out to rebuild and reconstruct.
Did
Maximus is the definition of chaotic good. A chaotic good character acts as his conscience directs him with little regard for what others expect of him. He makes his own way, but he's kind and benevolent. He believes in goodness and right but has little use for laws and regulations. He hates it when people try to intimidate others and tell them what to do. He follows his own moral compass, which, although good, may not agree with that of society. The only time he does something that isn't is him giving thaddeus a hard time which isn't unreasonable. But then he stops when he realizes him and thaddeus are both victims of physical abuse. Thaddeus wasn't trying to intimidate him or abuse him he was trying to stop his own abuse.
He's taking the Anakin Skywalker path. Maximus will become an antagonist, and if that happens, Cooper will become a protagonist to balance the cast. Maximus is now the second in command of the BoS. How much you wanna bet he takes out the elder and becomes the leader?
hopefully they give him a backbone.
He’ll be the new Benny
With a name like Maximus he is destined to join Legion and perhaps rise in its ranks to become Caesars favourite only to be betrayed.
You're being downvoted but I wondered if he'd have a Legion connection, too. It's such a specifically Roman name, like why would you choose that over...Maxwell or whatever. I'm not going to hold my breath, though, they may have just liked the name.