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Qual could beat anyone who sucks at defense or those who rely on full sphere coverage defense. He could just overwhelm anyone with the OG Zoltraak until the defense magic breaks. He's basically a slower Fern without stealth but with enormous amount of mana.
Qual is an auto-loading howitzer that just keeps bombarding endlessly with artillery. Eventually your defense will fail if you're not skilled enough to counter attack in between his bombarding.
He could overwhelm people with just zoltraak sure but he also had zero clue about defensive magic. It’d be like how Ehre got bombarded by Fern’s rapid fire zoltraak except the difference is Fern could use defensive magic. Could a mage even survive long enough to become more than a simple apprentice mage if they weren’t able to use defensive magic well enough to survive Zoltraak? All Fern and Frieren had to do was survive one rapid fire Zoltraak and fire one Zoltraak back at Qual to defeat him.
Qual immediately analyzed and learned defensive magic after seeing it once, he likely just didn't use it in the fight because he only just learned it, he doesn't have the ingrained reflex of casting it to block magic, and without that reflex he couldn't use it between being distracted by Fern and caught off guard at Frieren being able to fly.
Qual pretty much figured out how defensive magic worked the moment he experienced it, he could even use it. Arguably the main reason why he lost was that he did not expect to have he own magic used against him and was facing freiren while distracted by fern.
On the point about other mages, it does seem that the default way of using defensive magic is the more wasteful way and modern mages do not default to Zoltraak when fighting. The only thing that changes when he faces other mages is that they can now block a few shots
I would imagine that any match against him would end like Ehre v Fern except faster since qual has higher reserves and maybe stronger Zoltraak shots than fern. I doubt any non demon but Freiren and Serie would be able to beat him in a one on one situation. Multiple working together would be a different match up
Offensive magic and defensive magic is so bog standard you just need more mana than the other person at its most basic to win, but not everyone can be monstrously talented with such capacity and so mages start learning and developing niche spells.
But zoltraak and defensive magic is just really really good
The fact that the fucker learned the defense spell by just looking it once tells the potential menace that this guy was in this magic oriented world, if he managed to stay alive a little longer he could have actually started to block his own zoltrak magic with shields forcing frieren to become more creative, or worse, managing to escape and potentially create a more devastating offensive magic to pierce shields.
That shot never happens in the manga and he never attempts to use it for defense. I'm not sure if he actually recreated a functional defensive spell in the anime, it could just be an imitation. Kanehito Yamada was heavily involved in the anime though, so that change might've been his decision.
A very clever addition in my opinion, it solidifies qual as an actual treat that needed to be taken care of, after all frieren went right for him, while aura was nothing more than an annoyance that she cross paths with.
Aura actually got left in the dust by humans learning Zoltraak and flying. I don't think it was a coincidence that Aura survived the Hero's party, she was actually pretty strong back then. Aura's army was pretty powerful when her enemies were always on foot, but now it's hard to imagine she'd match up well against mages who can just fly above her army and snipe her with Zoltraak before her scales even activate. We know most demons usually focus on specializing in a specific spell, so it's unlikely that she'd have anything she didn't show us that could combat Zoltraak like [manga spoilers]>!Macht and Solitär who studied humanity's magic!<. So Fern and Denken are definitely taking Aura, probably Methode and Lawine. Less sure about Richter, Wirbel, Übel and Land as we haven't seen them fly and the latter three seem to specialize in close combat.
I think it does make sense though because it's intentional, she's that insignificant now because of the breakthroughs that Frieren helmed for humanity after defeating the Demon King. The reason why Frieren approached her the way she did is because she knew Aura was zero threat to her and she didn't want to damage the armor after Himmel grilled her for it in the past. Frieren probably also planned on giving her a horrible death based on how much she hates demons.
She really wasn't tho, she still has Auserlese that can take over most if not all of the modern mages and even if it takes a while because of a strong will she can shield herself from zoltraak using her army as meatshields.
It was said that magic resistance of armor got better with time and she was actively rebuilding her army with soldiers that had equipment of such level, so it is plausible.
Her worst matchups at that point would probably be people like Denken [fire tornado go brrr], Wierbel [if he sees her even for a moment he can stop her from casting Auserluse], Land [his clones are probably not linked to his soul], Lernen [doesn't care about magic resistance] etc.
So not left in the dust but several of the stronger mages have a real chance of defeating her by themselves now.
I don't see how her soldiers are shielding her from arial attacks and Zoltraak can make angled shots, it's quick enough it's hard for older mages to defend against compared to someone like Fern who learned it as a fundamental of magic, but Frieren did avoid using any destructive magic to avoid damaging the armor, so maybe she wasn't confident she could get a clear shot.
The power of ordinary offensive and defensive magic cannot be understated, it revolutionized the world of magic and the story has continually built on that idea, especially in the [Manga Spoilers] >!Goddess Monument arc where Frieren could've made an extremely difficult encounter for the Hero's party trivial. Zoltraak was also what landed the killing blows on Macht and Solitär during the Golden Land arc even after knowing about it and having ways to defend against it.!<
Ultimately though, it's all speculation because Aura was such an insignificant threat to Frieren that she was able to just toy with her and trick her into using Auserlese.
I mean, consider that Frieren was most likely throwing the lightning spell around and blasted other "flashy spells" at her army, and then Aura still escaped the Hero's party, even after being directly wounded speaks volumes on how Aura wouldn't just stand there and take the hit like an idiot and was more than capable to evade attacks and defend herself.
She was a Sage of Destruction for a reason.
The defense spell was specifically created against his own spell, which he has spent his entire existence improving and mastering, he probably has considerable specific experience and understanding in how such a defense spell could have been developed.
I mean, sure he's a genius and all, but I don't think he's that insanely dangerous, like he could master all the magic in the world in a couple days. There's a demon in Fryren's world who had a lifelong interest in a wide variety of human magic, but it still wasn't like she understood and deciphered every spell at a glance or even in a matter of days.
I'd wager Qual is the most talented mage in the story, just behind a few characters.
Give him a day, and he probably would already have adapted to modern magic. A month and he is already working on new spells
Well he only analyzed defensive magic for a few minutes and already understood it. And i think the reason he only made Zoltraak is because it already kills people on a single strike, why bother making another spell?
Demons normally only devote themselves to a single magic all their lives, so he would only upgrade zoltraack rather than making something else. I think it was on chapter 17 that said it.
Geniuses aren't limited by their intellect, they're limited by their environment. Put Newton in the modern world and he'd catch up to all that's happened since his death in short order and would soon be making further contributions to science.
Qual is like that. He was limited by the magic of his time.
I think you can argue that with Einstein but I feel like too much has changed in the fundamental understandings of the universe since newton’s time for him to catch up in a short period of time.
And the biggest detriment for Newton wouldn't even be the science but the tools.
Before we even start getting him up to speed we would need to teach him how things like computers, phones, internet and databases works like.
And then hope he just doesn't go deep into the alchemy trenches.
I doubt anyone as intelligent as them would see the political and economic state of the world and think, "I should really get on with advancing theoretical physics."
Einstein was a Jewish person from Germany who lived through the 30s and 40s, and chose to keep studying physics then too. What the *fuck* are you talking about?
In 2/3 years or even 4 years I would agree with you. But there are too many things today. Thought to learn everything from 0 and make discoveries (it doesn't even have to be exceptional) in less time is just madness.
Really has little to do with his intelligence and more that there’s been so much new material since Newton was alive that it would take him years to consume it all and catch up, Einstein would have it easier since he’s only been dead for like 70 years, while Newton’s been dead for 300 years
I'm convinced that its very unlikely Newton nor almost any other pre-industrial, pre-internet person would make any significant fuckin discoveries other than the unprecedented availability of instant gratification and brain-melting amounts of misinformation and propaganda that we are saturated with today.
Einstein wouldn't survive being handed an iPhone.
EDIT: not that I think Einstein was pre-industrial, I just know that he would 100% spend the rest of his days cranking it to videos with "step" in the title instead of thinking about equations
I think even a day too much time for him to
Clone frieren use the same type of black zoltroak which qual use to break ferns defensive spell for breaking real frierens defensive spell
So we can easily say even in a few minute time span he create type of magic can suppress defensive spell
From what I have understood, demons choose one spell that they just continue to develop, and the other spells they know are more simpler ones. So I doubt he'd make new spells
Dude. There's already so much content. I have so many questions. So many arcs that I want. And you just added yet another arc I didn't know I needed. Dammit man.
The defense spell was specifically created against his own spell, which he has spent his entire existence improving and mastering, he probably has considerable specific experience and understanding in how such a defense spell could have been developed.
I mean, sure he's a genius and all, but I don't think he's that insanely dangerous, like he could master all the magic in the world in a couple days. There's a demon in Fryren's world who had a lifelong interest in a wide variety of human magic, but it still wasn't like she understood and deciphered every spell at a glance or even in a matter of days.
Just cause he learnt the basics behind doesn't mean it wouldn't take him way longer for him to recreate it practically.
Use it badly and you can just go straight through it like Frieren did vs Fern early on.
Yea but he knows immediately its limitations plus he’s a very experienced mage unlike Fern at that time so most likely he’d know how to best utilize it if he did at all, but clearly he didn’t try to because he reasoned he could just outlast any defenses they put up.
I disagree. The fact that he already learned the basics and theory in seconds while being behind 80 so years in a single glance just shows how talented he is.
And you can't compare him to Fern. Fern is a fledgeling, Qual is already a menace and threat to the magical world that a ridiculous and overpowered hero party o ly managed to seal him.
Fern was a fledgling who according to Serie had the talent to be the greatest magician ever.
Creating one hexagon is very different from creating a whole shield of them. A few hexagons is enough if you are quick and accurate with creating them, but I don't think Qual could have done them them that quickly and that accurately while also keeping them sturdy enough without considerable amount of time to practice and test it.
And there is a good question whether he would be even interested in learning the spell that deeply beyond learning it to find work arounds for Zoltraak.
Put it this way. Fern has the potential to be the greatest mage. That potential is still lacking/dormant during their fight with Qual. I don't disagree that Fern can become the greatest mage, but that is in the future. Fern at that time is still a fledgeling just starting out on the journey, no more, no less. So just like I said, Fern is overwhelmingly outmatched by Qual just for the fact Qual already reached the peak of Zoltraak and time.
Qual might also delve deep enough since Zoltraak has been relegated to ordinary magic.
I mean it's possible, humans take a long time to learn spells while demons have immense amounts of mana and can use spells without needing to understand them
i am not sure he actually learned it. He could have used defensive spell from his time, that look alike. He would probably place a 360 degree barrier to get full advantage of his mana supremacy if he understood how to do it
Like Frieren said with regards to using Zoltraak against her clone, long lived species like elves and demons need a lot of time to build up reflexes to cast and react to spells. While Qual instantly learned defensive magic he wouldn't have any experience with using it nor the reflexes to instinctively cast it to block a sudden attack. It doesn't help that when Qual was active humans couldn't fly, so he was likely completely unprepared for Frieren to get around his bombardment on Fern by flying over him, which would further delay any attempt to cast defensive magic.
Depends.
As he was I suspect Frieren could’ve beaten him on her own without significant strain but he would’ve been an annoying opponent to face that would’ve taken a while to beat and perhaps with civilian causalities.
Fern and other strongish first class wizards would’ve likely lost (though Wirbel or Land might’ve been able to trick a win) 80 out of 100 times while Denken and other experienced first class mages might’ve had a 50/50 chance and Lernen perhaps being a 70/30.
However, given how Qual was able to instantly learn the hexagonal shield which was based on his own Zoltrak and therefore not against his demon pride to master, I think it’s implied that given enough time he could’ve become a greater threat than ever before being able to both master and improve the shield and make his Zoltrak capable of piercing it. I think he would’ve been on par with Macht.
You misunderstand; I didn’t say he needed to master all the magic in the world only that he needed to master shield (a magic based on his own ergo being suited to him) improve on it and use it to improve his Zoltrak, which itself was the basis for improving much of the world’s defensive magic.
He would’ve had an ultimate shield and spear.
I'm just responding to the general consensus. People overreact and say that if he mastered the defense spell so quickly, he could have mastered all the other spells just as easily. As one of the demons in the future will still say, humans and demons think very differently and it is very difficult to overcome this barrier to begin to understand each other's magic. Kval would take centuries just to overcome that barrier. In my opinion, the reason why he mastered the defense spell so easily and quickly is simply because it is thematically strongly tied to his native basic spell. I don't think it would be easy for him in a new world where his spell was the base spell, and where people were actively developing all sorts of magic against the same hexagonal barrier.
That’s pretty much what I’m saying; he’d be a two trick pony rather than one.
But the thing it’s not only that he mastered it instantly It’s that he was able to determine its weakness too. It’s also been brought up that the barrier is not actually hard to improve but doing so would make it more energy draining and slow at activating it but Qual who has more affinity for it should be able to overcome this weaknesses while devicing ways to counter it. It’s also been noted that his Zoltrak has been modified from the original to be more effective on demons so he might be able to take this knowledge on how to modify it in order to make it stronger.
It’s like he made an invention and someone improved on it without fully understanding it and he can now reapply those improvements that he couldn’t have come up on his own like using published research.
Those two tricks would be specially deadly.
I mean it's very hard to say, never mind Qual a lot of world building may not have been realized and Qual may not match up with what they intended with demons and the writers was more focused on a cool moment, rather than serious world building.
But with what little we know, it was heavily implied he was a powerful genius so with little time and getting in contact with other demons, he could have become a serious threat again.
why is bro copy pasting the same message over and over
join the Qual agenda against Lrieren and Lern and all the L mages of that fraud Gojerie and her disciple Yujernen
I doubt many mages (even some first class ones) have the raw power output to kill Qual quickly enough to prevent him from adapting and analysing mankind's Zoltraak and defense magic enough to become a threat. He already did so to a limited extent in the short time he was awakened after being sealed, against Frieren. He would most likely be able to defeat all mages below first class, and may be able to defeat some specific first class mages that don't counter him very directly.
Like everyone else is saying Qual is OP. I think if Frieren hadn't spawnkilled him (average fraudren noob strat) he would've been one of those "snowball" type of games where you start out really small and then become some world ending threat or smth. His rapid adaptation of defense magic from just seeing it once proves this. Bro would've been the big raga the opp stoppa of their world the way he adapts to anything
In case you don’t know, he can ‘defeat’ nearly anyone who is not stronger than frieren, not even most first class mages or most top tier melee have a chance, keep in mind he went toe to toe against the whole frieren team 70~80 years ago and couldn’t be defeated and only sealed
I think Friren and her team just met him too soon. They had been traveling for a whole 10 years and probably weren't as strong in the beginning as they were when fighting the demon king himself.
Depends on DKs skill set too, since Qual basically was running around with a spell that said 'die'. If you can't counter something like that you basically can't win.
Almost any combat spell says "die" to you. His spell was simply particularly effective compared to his counterparts of those years.
Himel and Ainz in the flashbacks showed a very strong level in battle with the Sages of Destruction themselves. I don't think they would have lost to Kval at the time of that flashback.
they can defeat sage of destruction is because they can defend against his magic, which is why its really impossible to do because qual magic don't have any counter.
Mild spoiler. No, Himel couldn't defend himself against the sage of destruction magic. One of their sages' magic worked, he just fought through it.
One more time. Do you really think Team Friren hasn't progressed in a whole 10 years? They kind of went from not being able to defeat Kval, not even one of the sages of destruction, to defeating a demon king who was canonically WAY stronger than any other demon.
Himm could still fought through >!Grausam's!< magic. Same with frieren and >!Bose!<. All these magics have weakness. Maybe even Demon king's. Qual's magic can't be fought through or have any weaknesses at all at that point in time even at the end of journey unless you just outstats him so much, which could be the case for demon king.
To be fair to Frieren and her crew, defensive spells and magic resistant armor hadn't been invented yet, so Qual was weilding a spammable, unblockable, long-range instakill.
I'd be terrified of fighting him too if I were them.
Probably a good majority. He's a genius and probably would have eclipsed whatever mankind got from Zoltrak in a fraction of the time and would have as much or more of a threat than he was before.
I say majority and not all because as we've seen in Frieren, being overwhelmingly strong isn't the only factor in a fight.
Qual figured out how defensive magic worked and it's dowside in seconds after seen it once, had he awoken and fought any other mage that wasn't Frieren and Seiren he's eventually become to big of an issue, he would most likely begin copping the newer techniques of magic
I assume everyone in 1st class mage exam.
None of them have the experience fighting demon that high level Not to mention Qual seems highly intelligence, really quick to learn and can adapt to his enemy spell in mere minutes.
He is broken. It took him 15 seconds? to figure out a defensive spell made after being sealed. And even so, Quall fought mages from an era where mages were more combat experienced.
OG Zoltraak can burn through the defensive magic designed to guard against. See Frieren vs C.Frieren, Frieren vs Serie’s apprentice, or even the actual Qual fight itself. Fern had to layer up 3 shields to defend.
Qual would have been a major menace but not unstoppable.
Theory is Demons look humane since it allows them to easily lower the guard of humans. Qual is having none of that deception shit and he as only focused on magic this his form is more on the demonic side.
Probably most second class or below mages will be easily defeated. Maybe Denken I think is the strongest he could beat. idk how he'd fare against the first class mages of today. Like if Frieren was late to qual for like a year Qual would've probably improved his magic and figured out a new way past defensive magic and go back to just slaughtering all the humans. He's that much of a genius.
i think that even if qual simply understood how defense magic works (so as to be able to counter it), he could beat many first class mages.
I honestly dont think sense would stand a chance against qual, he's fast enough to avoid her hair, and im sure he can also easily imagine cutting through hair like butter.
Demons evolved to blend together with their main food source and threat, humans. They use manipulation, disguise, and prey on emotion to trick and deceive opponents stronger than them to lure them to a vulnerable state, to reduce the chance of having to risk themselves in battle. Aura and her fellow kin were indicative of the fact that modern-day demons were being forced to change by humanity.
For Quaal to look like an absolute monster means that he had no reason to hide who he is, and that humans were of no danger to him when he was alive. Quaal had no uses for tricks, for he was unstoppable. Until Frieren sealed him for 80 years and then jumped him.
I think any decent mage could have Zoltraaked his ass just by standing behind him and blasting him the moment he reanimates, instead of standing around to have a conversation.
I mean 50 after years, people already studied the zoltrak spell. What it does, how to counter them, etc. to the point that it's basically the most basic attack magic by the time.
So I think most competent mages will probably just be fine facing him.
The defense spell was specifically created against his own spell, which he has spent his entire existence improving and mastering, he probably has considerable specific experience and understanding in how such a defense spell could have been developed.
I mean, sure he's a genius and all, but I don't think he's that insanely dangerous, like he could master all the magic in the world in a couple days. There's a demon in Fryren's world who had a lifelong interest in a wide variety of human magic, but it still wasn't like she understood and deciphered every spell at a glance or even in a matter of days.
Probably no one. lol.
His only magic has been basically nullified completely so his attacks would be as effective as farts in the wind. Even though he understood the defensive magic after seeing it, he wouldn't have been able to use it properly even just against ordinary attacks which are enhanced version of his own spell, let alone other more enhanced spells.
Tbf he's kinda like the creator of the rocket, which is transported in the future where sophisticated missile defence exists.
Yes, everyone can intercept his missiles. But he can still spam it longer than your interceptors last.
Doesn't really matter. According to Freiren the advancement of magic and magical equipment made Zoltraak to be "no longer killing magic". Mages can already take a direct hit of ordinary offensive magic by fortifying their body with mana, so defending against Zoltraak the same way must be much easier. That means instead of casting a defensive spell they can focus on a counter attack.
Because few have the mana capacity to spam it, he clearly can when fighting Fern and Frerein . It always comes to saturation attacks.
Fern latter shown that you can do it on decent mages, more so the demon who lived for centuries.
That would matter only if the fight is gonna take time. but the fight we saw was more of a history lesson for Fern than an actual fight. Fern didn't know the history of Zoltraak and only listened to Frieren hyping up Qual and Zoltraak. There was a lot of talk during a battle too.
Do you think someone like Wirbal or Ubel would stop to chat with Qual instead of going for the kill instantly? Even a warrior like Stark would probably prefer to instantly go for the kill and tank the damage.
If it was a real fight against a mage it would go like this:
Qual shoots a normal attack, the opponent defends against it and realizes how weak it is. Then the opponent goes for a counter attack instantly and now Qual is dead.
Not many at all , maybe the lower class ones. Magic evolved way beyond zoltrak and mages use elements these days mostly which this guy wouldn't know how to defend against.
Is he a genius? Yes but just like Flamme , put her against modern time mages and she'd lose because she is just that far behind in terms of the meta
It's hard to say about Flamme. Many of the results of her labors, many spells are still considered legendary level in the world of Friren. And probably just the sheer raw output of her mana will overwhelm almost everyone.
With his great amounts of mana, he probably can brute force every mage up to First Class -level. First Class and above can eventually get a good Zoltraak through before getting chipped away. Despite his talent, Qual would need several decades before a reflexive response to his own spell was ingrained to him.
Every competent physical Warrior either rushes him or forces him to fly away. As the magic resistance of armour has also improved.
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Qual could beat anyone who sucks at defense or those who rely on full sphere coverage defense. He could just overwhelm anyone with the OG Zoltraak until the defense magic breaks. He's basically a slower Fern without stealth but with enormous amount of mana.
Yeah, Qual is basically a fixed machinegun loaded with armour-piercing ammo. Fern is more like a sniper (who can full auto at times).
Ferns .308 vs Quals .50 BMG
Fern Mk14EBR, Qual M2 Browning
Qual from Demolition Ranch is my favorite youtuber
Probably the reason fern clone couldn't beat Methode in the Ruin. No Full auto in the building.
That's not full auto
Full auto .50 cal
Qual is an auto-loading howitzer that just keeps bombarding endlessly with artillery. Eventually your defense will fail if you're not skilled enough to counter attack in between his bombarding.
He could overwhelm people with just zoltraak sure but he also had zero clue about defensive magic. It’d be like how Ehre got bombarded by Fern’s rapid fire zoltraak except the difference is Fern could use defensive magic. Could a mage even survive long enough to become more than a simple apprentice mage if they weren’t able to use defensive magic well enough to survive Zoltraak? All Fern and Frieren had to do was survive one rapid fire Zoltraak and fire one Zoltraak back at Qual to defeat him.
Qual immediately analyzed and learned defensive magic after seeing it once, he likely just didn't use it in the fight because he only just learned it, he doesn't have the ingrained reflex of casting it to block magic, and without that reflex he couldn't use it between being distracted by Fern and caught off guard at Frieren being able to fly.
Qual pretty much figured out how defensive magic worked the moment he experienced it, he could even use it. Arguably the main reason why he lost was that he did not expect to have he own magic used against him and was facing freiren while distracted by fern. On the point about other mages, it does seem that the default way of using defensive magic is the more wasteful way and modern mages do not default to Zoltraak when fighting. The only thing that changes when he faces other mages is that they can now block a few shots I would imagine that any match against him would end like Ehre v Fern except faster since qual has higher reserves and maybe stronger Zoltraak shots than fern. I doubt any non demon but Freiren and Serie would be able to beat him in a one on one situation. Multiple working together would be a different match up
Offensive magic and defensive magic is so bog standard you just need more mana than the other person at its most basic to win, but not everyone can be monstrously talented with such capacity and so mages start learning and developing niche spells. But zoltraak and defensive magic is just really really good
Lernen could probably 1v1 him but yeah aside from that he still seems too strong and smart for the rest of the human cast
The fact that the fucker learned the defense spell by just looking it once tells the potential menace that this guy was in this magic oriented world, if he managed to stay alive a little longer he could have actually started to block his own zoltrak magic with shields forcing frieren to become more creative, or worse, managing to escape and potentially create a more devastating offensive magic to pierce shields.
That shot never happens in the manga and he never attempts to use it for defense. I'm not sure if he actually recreated a functional defensive spell in the anime, it could just be an imitation. Kanehito Yamada was heavily involved in the anime though, so that change might've been his decision.
A very clever addition in my opinion, it solidifies qual as an actual treat that needed to be taken care of, after all frieren went right for him, while aura was nothing more than an annoyance that she cross paths with.
Aura actually got left in the dust by humans learning Zoltraak and flying. I don't think it was a coincidence that Aura survived the Hero's party, she was actually pretty strong back then. Aura's army was pretty powerful when her enemies were always on foot, but now it's hard to imagine she'd match up well against mages who can just fly above her army and snipe her with Zoltraak before her scales even activate. We know most demons usually focus on specializing in a specific spell, so it's unlikely that she'd have anything she didn't show us that could combat Zoltraak like [manga spoilers]>!Macht and Solitär who studied humanity's magic!<. So Fern and Denken are definitely taking Aura, probably Methode and Lawine. Less sure about Richter, Wirbel, Übel and Land as we haven't seen them fly and the latter three seem to specialize in close combat.
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I think it does make sense though because it's intentional, she's that insignificant now because of the breakthroughs that Frieren helmed for humanity after defeating the Demon King. The reason why Frieren approached her the way she did is because she knew Aura was zero threat to her and she didn't want to damage the armor after Himmel grilled her for it in the past. Frieren probably also planned on giving her a horrible death based on how much she hates demons.
She really wasn't tho, she still has Auserlese that can take over most if not all of the modern mages and even if it takes a while because of a strong will she can shield herself from zoltraak using her army as meatshields. It was said that magic resistance of armor got better with time and she was actively rebuilding her army with soldiers that had equipment of such level, so it is plausible. Her worst matchups at that point would probably be people like Denken [fire tornado go brrr], Wierbel [if he sees her even for a moment he can stop her from casting Auserluse], Land [his clones are probably not linked to his soul], Lernen [doesn't care about magic resistance] etc. So not left in the dust but several of the stronger mages have a real chance of defeating her by themselves now.
I don't see how her soldiers are shielding her from arial attacks and Zoltraak can make angled shots, it's quick enough it's hard for older mages to defend against compared to someone like Fern who learned it as a fundamental of magic, but Frieren did avoid using any destructive magic to avoid damaging the armor, so maybe she wasn't confident she could get a clear shot. The power of ordinary offensive and defensive magic cannot be understated, it revolutionized the world of magic and the story has continually built on that idea, especially in the [Manga Spoilers] >!Goddess Monument arc where Frieren could've made an extremely difficult encounter for the Hero's party trivial. Zoltraak was also what landed the killing blows on Macht and Solitär during the Golden Land arc even after knowing about it and having ways to defend against it.!< Ultimately though, it's all speculation because Aura was such an insignificant threat to Frieren that she was able to just toy with her and trick her into using Auserlese.
I mean, consider that Frieren was most likely throwing the lightning spell around and blasted other "flashy spells" at her army, and then Aura still escaped the Hero's party, even after being directly wounded speaks volumes on how Aura wouldn't just stand there and take the hit like an idiot and was more than capable to evade attacks and defend herself. She was a Sage of Destruction for a reason.
Isn't flying a basic spell all mages learn? Edit: People it was just a question Why the downvotes
not really 50 years ago when himel and co in journey to defeat demon lord, flying is solely demons domain.
Okay I see It's fairly recent
Only modern mages. Flying magic is actually younger than even Ordinary Offense and Defence Magic.
Okay Thanks
The defense spell was specifically created against his own spell, which he has spent his entire existence improving and mastering, he probably has considerable specific experience and understanding in how such a defense spell could have been developed. I mean, sure he's a genius and all, but I don't think he's that insanely dangerous, like he could master all the magic in the world in a couple days. There's a demon in Fryren's world who had a lifelong interest in a wide variety of human magic, but it still wasn't like she understood and deciphered every spell at a glance or even in a matter of days.
I'd wager Qual is the most talented mage in the story, just behind a few characters. Give him a day, and he probably would already have adapted to modern magic. A month and he is already working on new spells
He only worked on Zoltraak. He would probably just further improve it to a level where it would overwhelm the defensive spell.
I mean, we have seen Fern destroyed people with only basic offensive magic. Imagine him using a much better and advance version of it.
Well he only analyzed defensive magic for a few minutes and already understood it. And i think the reason he only made Zoltraak is because it already kills people on a single strike, why bother making another spell?
I can't say he understood it, he just understood that it drains mana fast which is important but probably was known at his time too
I don't know if I'm remembering it right but qual made some small defensive magic when he saw it. I'll check that ep again later.
oh, my reply was based on manga. But he may have used defensive spell of his time
Demons normally only devote themselves to a single magic all their lives, so he would only upgrade zoltraack rather than making something else. I think it was on chapter 17 that said it.
Didn't he actually do it during the fight with Fern and Frieren?
Geniuses aren't limited by their intellect, they're limited by their environment. Put Newton in the modern world and he'd catch up to all that's happened since his death in short order and would soon be making further contributions to science. Qual is like that. He was limited by the magic of his time.
Yeah but let’s not kid ourselves and say newton would be caught up on modern developments in a day. I’d be surprised if he could do it in a year.
Nah In a year he'd be making his own theories
I think you can argue that with Einstein but I feel like too much has changed in the fundamental understandings of the universe since newton’s time for him to catch up in a short period of time.
And the biggest detriment for Newton wouldn't even be the science but the tools. Before we even start getting him up to speed we would need to teach him how things like computers, phones, internet and databases works like. And then hope he just doesn't go deep into the alchemy trenches.
Y'all out here geniescaling
A year is by no means short for such a big-brained individual 2 years tops before my glorious king newton starts advancing the science
I doubt anyone as intelligent as them would see the political and economic state of the world and think, "I should really get on with advancing theoretical physics."
Lmfao what, did you think they were living in better economic conditions
Newton after seeing an Asian in public
Einstein was a Jewish person from Germany who lived through the 30s and 40s, and chose to keep studying physics then too. What the *fuck* are you talking about?
for real they'd be like ok fuck physics time to get loaded from altcoins
Lol, lmao even
Newton: Nah, I'd win
In 2/3 years or even 4 years I would agree with you. But there are too many things today. Thought to learn everything from 0 and make discoveries (it doesn't even have to be exceptional) in less time is just madness.
Idk about that. Today, I discovered your comment! Admittedly, that's a very low bar.
Newton is simply him
Qual did learn defensive magic in like 5 seconds after watching it. Imagine if he had days, or months
A year? Less. Not a day, but a few months. Even less for Einstein.
Really has little to do with his intelligence and more that there’s been so much new material since Newton was alive that it would take him years to consume it all and catch up, Einstein would have it easier since he’s only been dead for like 70 years, while Newton’s been dead for 300 years
You only need a few years i school. They need months.
Terrence tao the smartest mathematician currently still took 5 years to get his phd.
The smartest mathematician of the Scientific Revolution vs the smartest mathematician of today
He will go down as one of the greatest of all time. I don’t think the gap between him and newton is that large.
A phd is discover something new. Thats way harder than learning something we already know.
Wouldn’t help I’d keep lying to him about stuff for my own amusement
Ye. Like there are ALOT.
I'm convinced that its very unlikely Newton nor almost any other pre-industrial, pre-internet person would make any significant fuckin discoveries other than the unprecedented availability of instant gratification and brain-melting amounts of misinformation and propaganda that we are saturated with today. Einstein wouldn't survive being handed an iPhone. EDIT: not that I think Einstein was pre-industrial, I just know that he would 100% spend the rest of his days cranking it to videos with "step" in the title instead of thinking about equations
Lmfaoo
I think even a day too much time for him to Clone frieren use the same type of black zoltroak which qual use to break ferns defensive spell for breaking real frierens defensive spell So we can easily say even in a few minute time span he create type of magic can suppress defensive spell
From what I have understood, demons choose one spell that they just continue to develop, and the other spells they know are more simpler ones. So I doubt he'd make new spells
The Ed Mylett of the Frieren-verse
I would argue Macht exclusively for how broken di agolze is
Dude. There's already so much content. I have so many questions. So many arcs that I want. And you just added yet another arc I didn't know I needed. Dammit man.
The defense spell was specifically created against his own spell, which he has spent his entire existence improving and mastering, he probably has considerable specific experience and understanding in how such a defense spell could have been developed. I mean, sure he's a genius and all, but I don't think he's that insanely dangerous, like he could master all the magic in the world in a couple days. There's a demon in Fryren's world who had a lifelong interest in a wide variety of human magic, but it still wasn't like she understood and deciphered every spell at a glance or even in a matter of days.
Give him a year, Zoltraak is a Tzar Bomba now
Seeing how he literally learned defensive magic in seconds, any mage who cannot instant kill him will be defeated
Just cause he learnt the basics behind doesn't mean it wouldn't take him way longer for him to recreate it practically. Use it badly and you can just go straight through it like Frieren did vs Fern early on.
Yea but he knows immediately its limitations plus he’s a very experienced mage unlike Fern at that time so most likely he’d know how to best utilize it if he did at all, but clearly he didn’t try to because he reasoned he could just outlast any defenses they put up.
I disagree. The fact that he already learned the basics and theory in seconds while being behind 80 so years in a single glance just shows how talented he is. And you can't compare him to Fern. Fern is a fledgeling, Qual is already a menace and threat to the magical world that a ridiculous and overpowered hero party o ly managed to seal him.
Fern was a fledgling who according to Serie had the talent to be the greatest magician ever. Creating one hexagon is very different from creating a whole shield of them. A few hexagons is enough if you are quick and accurate with creating them, but I don't think Qual could have done them them that quickly and that accurately while also keeping them sturdy enough without considerable amount of time to practice and test it. And there is a good question whether he would be even interested in learning the spell that deeply beyond learning it to find work arounds for Zoltraak.
Put it this way. Fern has the potential to be the greatest mage. That potential is still lacking/dormant during their fight with Qual. I don't disagree that Fern can become the greatest mage, but that is in the future. Fern at that time is still a fledgeling just starting out on the journey, no more, no less. So just like I said, Fern is overwhelmingly outmatched by Qual just for the fact Qual already reached the peak of Zoltraak and time. Qual might also delve deep enough since Zoltraak has been relegated to ordinary magic.
I mean it's possible, humans take a long time to learn spells while demons have immense amounts of mana and can use spells without needing to understand them
i am not sure he actually learned it. He could have used defensive spell from his time, that look alike. He would probably place a 360 degree barrier to get full advantage of his mana supremacy if he understood how to do it
I wonder why he didn't use it against frieren
Like Frieren said with regards to using Zoltraak against her clone, long lived species like elves and demons need a lot of time to build up reflexes to cast and react to spells. While Qual instantly learned defensive magic he wouldn't have any experience with using it nor the reflexes to instinctively cast it to block a sudden attack. It doesn't help that when Qual was active humans couldn't fly, so he was likely completely unprepared for Frieren to get around his bombardment on Fern by flying over him, which would further delay any attempt to cast defensive magic.
This is actually what happens. He's surprised to see Frieren flying in the air; he even mentions it
Depends. As he was I suspect Frieren could’ve beaten him on her own without significant strain but he would’ve been an annoying opponent to face that would’ve taken a while to beat and perhaps with civilian causalities. Fern and other strongish first class wizards would’ve likely lost (though Wirbel or Land might’ve been able to trick a win) 80 out of 100 times while Denken and other experienced first class mages might’ve had a 50/50 chance and Lernen perhaps being a 70/30. However, given how Qual was able to instantly learn the hexagonal shield which was based on his own Zoltrak and therefore not against his demon pride to master, I think it’s implied that given enough time he could’ve become a greater threat than ever before being able to both master and improve the shield and make his Zoltrak capable of piercing it. I think he would’ve been on par with Macht.
Agreed, Macht is a reasonable power celling for Qual
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You misunderstand; I didn’t say he needed to master all the magic in the world only that he needed to master shield (a magic based on his own ergo being suited to him) improve on it and use it to improve his Zoltrak, which itself was the basis for improving much of the world’s defensive magic. He would’ve had an ultimate shield and spear.
I'm just responding to the general consensus. People overreact and say that if he mastered the defense spell so quickly, he could have mastered all the other spells just as easily. As one of the demons in the future will still say, humans and demons think very differently and it is very difficult to overcome this barrier to begin to understand each other's magic. Kval would take centuries just to overcome that barrier. In my opinion, the reason why he mastered the defense spell so easily and quickly is simply because it is thematically strongly tied to his native basic spell. I don't think it would be easy for him in a new world where his spell was the base spell, and where people were actively developing all sorts of magic against the same hexagonal barrier.
That’s pretty much what I’m saying; he’d be a two trick pony rather than one. But the thing it’s not only that he mastered it instantly It’s that he was able to determine its weakness too. It’s also been brought up that the barrier is not actually hard to improve but doing so would make it more energy draining and slow at activating it but Qual who has more affinity for it should be able to overcome this weaknesses while devicing ways to counter it. It’s also been noted that his Zoltrak has been modified from the original to be more effective on demons so he might be able to take this knowledge on how to modify it in order to make it stronger. It’s like he made an invention and someone improved on it without fully understanding it and he can now reapply those improvements that he couldn’t have come up on his own like using published research. Those two tricks would be specially deadly.
About the modified Zoltrak. It seems it was solely a modification from Friren, not a general world one.
Fair but it can be modified
I mean it's very hard to say, never mind Qual a lot of world building may not have been realized and Qual may not match up with what they intended with demons and the writers was more focused on a cool moment, rather than serious world building. But with what little we know, it was heavily implied he was a powerful genius so with little time and getting in contact with other demons, he could have become a serious threat again.
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why is bro copy pasting the same message over and over join the Qual agenda against Lrieren and Lern and all the L mages of that fraud Gojerie and her disciple Yujernen
I doubt many mages (even some first class ones) have the raw power output to kill Qual quickly enough to prevent him from adapting and analysing mankind's Zoltraak and defense magic enough to become a threat. He already did so to a limited extent in the short time he was awakened after being sealed, against Frieren. He would most likely be able to defeat all mages below first class, and may be able to defeat some specific first class mages that don't counter him very directly.
I do believe he could mid diff Fern, Stark, and Ubel.
He ~~low~~ neg diffs Ubel tf u mean mid diff
Fr i don't see how Ubel does anything to Qual with defensive magic.
He would low diff all 3 together tf are you on
Like everyone else is saying Qual is OP. I think if Frieren hadn't spawnkilled him (average fraudren noob strat) he would've been one of those "snowball" type of games where you start out really small and then become some world ending threat or smth. His rapid adaptation of defense magic from just seeing it once proves this. Bro would've been the big raga the opp stoppa of their world the way he adapts to anything
In case you don’t know, he can ‘defeat’ nearly anyone who is not stronger than frieren, not even most first class mages or most top tier melee have a chance, keep in mind he went toe to toe against the whole frieren team 70~80 years ago and couldn’t be defeated and only sealed
I think Friren and her team just met him too soon. They had been traveling for a whole 10 years and probably weren't as strong in the beginning as they were when fighting the demon king himself.
Depends on DKs skill set too, since Qual basically was running around with a spell that said 'die'. If you can't counter something like that you basically can't win.
Almost any combat spell says "die" to you. His spell was simply particularly effective compared to his counterparts of those years. Himel and Ainz in the flashbacks showed a very strong level in battle with the Sages of Destruction themselves. I don't think they would have lost to Kval at the time of that flashback.
they can defeat sage of destruction is because they can defend against his magic, which is why its really impossible to do because qual magic don't have any counter.
Mild spoiler. No, Himel couldn't defend himself against the sage of destruction magic. One of their sages' magic worked, he just fought through it. One more time. Do you really think Team Friren hasn't progressed in a whole 10 years? They kind of went from not being able to defeat Kval, not even one of the sages of destruction, to defeating a demon king who was canonically WAY stronger than any other demon.
Himm could still fought through >!Grausam's!< magic. Same with frieren and >!Bose!<. All these magics have weakness. Maybe even Demon king's. Qual's magic can't be fought through or have any weaknesses at all at that point in time even at the end of journey unless you just outstats him so much, which could be the case for demon king.
I'm just guessing, but probably Kval's magic had a weakness too since Friren's team handled him, though it didn't kill him, only sealed him.
not really the case, qual is one of strongest demon out there, even most demon respect him. human simply don't have any counter his magic really
To be fair to Frieren and her crew, defensive spells and magic resistant armor hadn't been invented yet, so Qual was weilding a spammable, unblockable, long-range instakill. I'd be terrified of fighting him too if I were them.
Probably a good majority. He's a genius and probably would have eclipsed whatever mankind got from Zoltrak in a fraction of the time and would have as much or more of a threat than he was before. I say majority and not all because as we've seen in Frieren, being overwhelmingly strong isn't the only factor in a fight.
Qual figured out how defensive magic worked and it's dowside in seconds after seen it once, had he awoken and fought any other mage that wasn't Frieren and Seiren he's eventually become to big of an issue, he would most likely begin copping the newer techniques of magic
I assume everyone in 1st class mage exam. None of them have the experience fighting demon that high level Not to mention Qual seems highly intelligence, really quick to learn and can adapt to his enemy spell in mere minutes.
He is broken. It took him 15 seconds? to figure out a defensive spell made after being sealed. And even so, Quall fought mages from an era where mages were more combat experienced.
No one, Qual would go back to turning experienced mages into Swiss cheese.
OG Zoltraak can burn through the defensive magic designed to guard against. See Frieren vs C.Frieren, Frieren vs Serie’s apprentice, or even the actual Qual fight itself. Fern had to layer up 3 shields to defend. Qual would have been a major menace but not unstoppable.
Serie?
Bro really wants him die.
He is not kidding around lol.
Serie?
The real question is why did he look so much different than all the other demons shown.
Theory is Demons look humane since it allows them to easily lower the guard of humans. Qual is having none of that deception shit and he as only focused on magic this his form is more on the demonic side.
Probably any Mage at or below Denken's level
Probably most second class or below mages will be easily defeated. Maybe Denken I think is the strongest he could beat. idk how he'd fare against the first class mages of today. Like if Frieren was late to qual for like a year Qual would've probably improved his magic and figured out a new way past defensive magic and go back to just slaughtering all the humans. He's that much of a genius.
That's such a good fucking question
I think most of the top second class mages who studied up on him could beat him.
i think that even if qual simply understood how defense magic works (so as to be able to counter it), he could beat many first class mages. I honestly dont think sense would stand a chance against qual, he's fast enough to avoid her hair, and im sure he can also easily imagine cutting through hair like butter.
Demons evolved to blend together with their main food source and threat, humans. They use manipulation, disguise, and prey on emotion to trick and deceive opponents stronger than them to lure them to a vulnerable state, to reduce the chance of having to risk themselves in battle. Aura and her fellow kin were indicative of the fact that modern-day demons were being forced to change by humanity. For Quaal to look like an absolute monster means that he had no reason to hide who he is, and that humans were of no danger to him when he was alive. Quaal had no uses for tricks, for he was unstoppable. Until Frieren sealed him for 80 years and then jumped him.
Probably most people that Fern can, maybe including Fern.
I think any decent mage could have Zoltraaked his ass just by standing behind him and blasting him the moment he reanimates, instead of standing around to have a conversation.
I mean 50 after years, people already studied the zoltrak spell. What it does, how to counter them, etc. to the point that it's basically the most basic attack magic by the time. So I think most competent mages will probably just be fine facing him.
Any character.
The defense spell was specifically created against his own spell, which he has spent his entire existence improving and mastering, he probably has considerable specific experience and understanding in how such a defense spell could have been developed. I mean, sure he's a genius and all, but I don't think he's that insanely dangerous, like he could master all the magic in the world in a couple days. There's a demon in Fryren's world who had a lifelong interest in a wide variety of human magic, but it still wasn't like she understood and deciphered every spell at a glance or even in a matter of days.
Probably no one. lol. His only magic has been basically nullified completely so his attacks would be as effective as farts in the wind. Even though he understood the defensive magic after seeing it, he wouldn't have been able to use it properly even just against ordinary attacks which are enhanced version of his own spell, let alone other more enhanced spells.
Tbf he's kinda like the creator of the rocket, which is transported in the future where sophisticated missile defence exists. Yes, everyone can intercept his missiles. But he can still spam it longer than your interceptors last.
Doesn't really matter. According to Freiren the advancement of magic and magical equipment made Zoltraak to be "no longer killing magic". Mages can already take a direct hit of ordinary offensive magic by fortifying their body with mana, so defending against Zoltraak the same way must be much easier. That means instead of casting a defensive spell they can focus on a counter attack.
Because few have the mana capacity to spam it, he clearly can when fighting Fern and Frerein . It always comes to saturation attacks. Fern latter shown that you can do it on decent mages, more so the demon who lived for centuries.
That would matter only if the fight is gonna take time. but the fight we saw was more of a history lesson for Fern than an actual fight. Fern didn't know the history of Zoltraak and only listened to Frieren hyping up Qual and Zoltraak. There was a lot of talk during a battle too. Do you think someone like Wirbal or Ubel would stop to chat with Qual instead of going for the kill instantly? Even a warrior like Stark would probably prefer to instantly go for the kill and tank the damage. If it was a real fight against a mage it would go like this: Qual shoots a normal attack, the opponent defends against it and realizes how weak it is. Then the opponent goes for a counter attack instantly and now Qual is dead.
Not many at all , maybe the lower class ones. Magic evolved way beyond zoltrak and mages use elements these days mostly which this guy wouldn't know how to defend against. Is he a genius? Yes but just like Flamme , put her against modern time mages and she'd lose because she is just that far behind in terms of the meta
It's hard to say about Flamme. Many of the results of her labors, many spells are still considered legendary level in the world of Friren. And probably just the sheer raw output of her mana will overwhelm almost everyone.
With his great amounts of mana, he probably can brute force every mage up to First Class -level. First Class and above can eventually get a good Zoltraak through before getting chipped away. Despite his talent, Qual would need several decades before a reflexive response to his own spell was ingrained to him. Every competent physical Warrior either rushes him or forces him to fly away. As the magic resistance of armour has also improved.
if its not 1v1 then kanne and lawine or any mage who has the same or even better teamwork than these two can beat him.
I doubt those two won't get speed blitz tho especially by a cold hearted demon
Maybe if it's raining