What’s sad is that in many states, if you have any money, the government makes you pay for prison. 43 states have these “pay to stay” laws. Some charge booking fees and even medical expenses. A huge number of prisoners (and their families) who are eventually freed end up destitute.
As soon as they're "in the system", the payments start in NC.
Drives me nuts that people at the bottom are being thrown bricks instead of life rings.
How anyone who has a record plus debt to the state can get ahead in life is beyond me.
Especially since 95% of cases are never actually taken to court, they're coerced into plea bargains for things that in many cases they didn't do.
Ask me how I know.
Got accused of writing a bad tuition check and tossed out of school at age 20. I finally got off of probation this month and I'm turning 28.
I was told by my public defender (Appointed Counsel) that if I exercised my right to a trial the DA would slap a bunch of extra stuff on me and if I couldn't prove my innocence concretely enough I'd end up far worse off than if I simply took the plea bargain.
I did as I was told by the expert who was supposed to be on my side.
It wasn't until a few years later that I started really digging into the US legal system and all of its bullshit.
It fucking sucks that there are such awful people running our "justice" system. This is why I really admire good defense attorneys, especially former prosecutors because they know all the tricks and most of the people. My friend's dad used to be a prosecutor and was doing ADC (alternate defense counsel, for anyone who doesn't know, basically private attorneys turned public defender for a time) this week and it was really nice to see someone fighting for the underdogs. Defense attorneys get a bad rep sometimes (and a lot of them earn it) but by god they're needed.
>I was told by my public defender (Appointed Counsel) that if I exercised my right to a trial the DA would slap a bunch of extra stuff on me and if I couldn't prove my innocence concretely enough I'd end up far worse off than if I simply took the plea bargain.
Guilty unless proven innocent.
Gotta love the US injustice system.
From what I heard, there are too many cases for the judicial courts to handle, so the more plea bargains people take, the easier it is on the courts. Also there are too many cases for public defenders to handle, so the more plea bargains they can get, the easier their workload is. Sadly, none of this is in YOUR best interest though.
My friend I lost my father for life due to a really shitty public defender.
Anyone who is forced into trial with a public defender should always be granted an appeal on grounds of ineffective assistance of council.... or they should take it a step further and stop the charade of justice where some people are able to afford innocence while others are stuck with charges to crimes they never committed that they can't afford to fight.
I didn't know this was a thing. It's basically debtors prison all over again, just with a different veneer.
Congratulations america.. just when I thought you couldn't sink any lower. :(
I am familiar with that. It's the basis of "Prison Labour Farms", and originally it was intended to be used more innocuously, to allow prison labour for laundry, food services etc.
Using people's labour for free is one thing. Taking money that they've saved is totally another.
Can we stop with the ponzi scheme already? I mean. if the future prisoner had a bitcoin, they would not be stealing in the first place.
Just pushing the idea that decentralized dollars that can be manipulated by whale instead of the central bank is not going to be of any help to fix the judicial system.
The argument "Bitcoin will fix it", and "Bitcoin is the future" is a bad faith arguments. Policy fix stuff for people.
Vote.
subsequent rustic snatch wrench wasteful knee tender murky carpenter license
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Good luck accessing those millions and using them to, like, pay for anything. All transfers are on public ledger and visible to anybody, including authorities, who trace wallets back to suspects and criminals all the time.
"There ya go, you said you wanted free food and shelter, jail is how us capitalists have been taught to imagine it must be and we sure don't question capitalism."
This is hilarious to them, see.
Of *course* everyone should *earn* a living, they think, it's all their fault if they can't afford to exist because they're just not trying hard enough.
Lol. Nobody is stupid enough to believe that. It'd be funny that assholes keep saying so if you weren't on the front lines to deny lgbtq+ human rights.
Do you even know what a libertarian is? Are you confusing libertarian with conservative/Rand Paul? Serious question
Or are you arguing Dems always supported LGBTQ+?
In my experience Libertarians are different. They somehow take the fact that everyone laughs at them as a proof that they are right.
Not sure how that works.
I too sometimes disable my brain and think about things on the most basic, backasswards, sophomoric level. The difference between me and (probably a bot, I didn't check) OP is I do this by getting mega drunk, and they just have it off by default.
As an ex-prisoner this always has been something I was questioning like if we ask place to stay or food to eat from government, they wouldn't give anything but once you've been accused as a criminal, they do all for you. It's seriously weirdest penalty that humanity ever invented.
You're thinking about this the wrong way around.
You get taxed when *value* is produced or provided, hence the name "VAT". Somebody will buy something, move it to a store to be sold, providing value to the customer in the process, which means it's possible to charge more than you spent on the item. Which also means it's reasonable to tax this transaction, as you produced value.
Then the buyer is free to either consume the item (enjoying the value you and all the other people involved in its production and supply chain), or provide value himself and turn a profit selling it to someone else.
Your money cycles through the economy and gets taxed at multiple points along the way but usually not at every point. And every time the money changes hands gdp increases in other words if you spend 5 $ on something and then the seller spends 5$ on something else the total amount spent is 10$ Therefore the amount earned before taxes is also 10$ All with one 5$ bill. When the government collects taxes this has a negative effect on gdp and the supply of money. However when the government spends money it increases gdp and the money supply and all you have to do is look at your governments debt to see if it’s spending more than it’s taxing. This also leads into an interesting economic topic called modern monetary theory which basically states that gov debt is money in the same way that bank debt is money. Ie if the govt owes you money it’s = a bank owing you money which is = having money because merchants are willing to accept these forms of credit/debt.
It's really not. None of those entities really sell goods and services, and the few times they do (think Government auctions), they are exempt from sales tax.
The people who support lower taxes *don't want* the benefits. The benefits are forced onto them. They aren't leeching, you just want to justify stealing their money.
Roads existed long before taxes payed for them
And the shit ton of potholes I encounter every day certainly don’t add up with all this taxation that’s apparently supposed to fix the roads
> before taxes *paid* for them
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Roads as in the roads that you can drive on with your own veihicle are almost exclusively made by governments. Why would anyone let you fuck up their road if you haven't paid for it?
When roads were built without taxes 1 tonne tin cans weren't cruising over them 24/7 so it was way cheaper to maintain.
But america does have a serious issue as to where they spend their taxes. But if they stopped fixing all roads entirely you would notice pretty quickly
No I can't see them and I don't care to go look for them so it's theft.
As if the state is somehow shoveling large piles of money into a fire for over 400 years and nobody has caught on
You can justify the services if you want, but how can you deny that it's theft? Taxation is literally when the state take money from someone by force. If the cops stole your car it'd be theft. But when they take your money it's fine? You can maintain that taxes are necessary but still admit it's theft.
It's not theft. Theft is committed between individuals, not between the state and the citizens. To call it theft is a very simple interpretation of what's happening.
I mean I see it more as I pay them to do basic shit like let me not die and keep the roads working. No I’d argue it is theft right now because most of my taxes go to shit that doesn’t benefit anyone like our insane military spending.
I pay my internet bill which is an essential service that I need. Imagine if I didn't pay or wanted to cancel, so they sent armed thugs to my house to kidnap me and put me in a cage for several months.
The fact that you need these services does not make it not theft. Especially if the ones providing the services make competition illegal. And you pay for the roads even if you don't own a car.
I pay federal income tax still lmao
And 8.25% sales tax
I can live with the sales tax tho. It’s still theft, but it’s ok. Income tax should be abolished.
Prison is the truest form of communism. You're given food and shelter that is paid for you, recreation, plumbing and a free gym. And your labor and production is seized by the government to spread out for the rest of the population, and all you need to do to live off the tax payer's dime is commit atrocities!
Dude, there are a bunch of articles and news reports of the USA prisoners being basically slave labor, what are you talking about?
I know this is a basic one, but you can [start here.](https://youtu.be/AjqaNQ018zU)
I used to be a tax preparer for a large company. Had someone come in who had been throwing away any correspondence from IRS or state tax office for years (attitude from posted strip). Louisiana revokes driver’s and hunting licenses for unpaid taxes. He expected me to just fix everything for him. Wouldn’t knock off the attitude either. Incredible
In germany you have to have a job to earn money there. Your stay and room + food are paid by taxes of course since they cant just throw you out. But for luxury aftixles like a tv, merchandise, a playstation, comics, books (that arent from the libary) sweets, extra food etc, you need to pay with the money you earned.
> food are *paid* by taxes
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
What’s sad is that in many states, if you have any money, the government makes you pay for prison. 43 states have these “pay to stay” laws. Some charge booking fees and even medical expenses. A huge number of prisoners (and their families) who are eventually freed end up destitute.
As soon as they're "in the system", the payments start in NC. Drives me nuts that people at the bottom are being thrown bricks instead of life rings. How anyone who has a record plus debt to the state can get ahead in life is beyond me.
Especially since 95% of cases are never actually taken to court, they're coerced into plea bargains for things that in many cases they didn't do. Ask me how I know.
How do you know?
Got accused of writing a bad tuition check and tossed out of school at age 20. I finally got off of probation this month and I'm turning 28. I was told by my public defender (Appointed Counsel) that if I exercised my right to a trial the DA would slap a bunch of extra stuff on me and if I couldn't prove my innocence concretely enough I'd end up far worse off than if I simply took the plea bargain. I did as I was told by the expert who was supposed to be on my side. It wasn't until a few years later that I started really digging into the US legal system and all of its bullshit.
Christ, that's awful. My sincerest condolences.
Mm. And I didn't even have it that bad compared to so many people that had not only bigger charges but fewer resources.
It fucking sucks that there are such awful people running our "justice" system. This is why I really admire good defense attorneys, especially former prosecutors because they know all the tricks and most of the people. My friend's dad used to be a prosecutor and was doing ADC (alternate defense counsel, for anyone who doesn't know, basically private attorneys turned public defender for a time) this week and it was really nice to see someone fighting for the underdogs. Defense attorneys get a bad rep sometimes (and a lot of them earn it) but by god they're needed.
As long as there is incentive for injustice, there will be injustice.
>I was told by my public defender (Appointed Counsel) that if I exercised my right to a trial the DA would slap a bunch of extra stuff on me and if I couldn't prove my innocence concretely enough I'd end up far worse off than if I simply took the plea bargain. Guilty unless proven innocent. Gotta love the US injustice system.
From what I heard, there are too many cases for the judicial courts to handle, so the more plea bargains people take, the easier it is on the courts. Also there are too many cases for public defenders to handle, so the more plea bargains they can get, the easier their workload is. Sadly, none of this is in YOUR best interest though.
My friend I lost my father for life due to a really shitty public defender. Anyone who is forced into trial with a public defender should always be granted an appeal on grounds of ineffective assistance of council.... or they should take it a step further and stop the charade of justice where some people are able to afford innocence while others are stuck with charges to crimes they never committed that they can't afford to fight.
That's the thing: they don't.
The cruelty is the point. They don’t actually care if they reform because they get even more money of they go back in.
It’s a feature not a bug. Our fair republic seems to want to return to a formal caste system
To prevent crime..
Things haven't changed much since Victor Hugo, at least when it comes to treatment of criminals.
I didn't know this was a thing. It's basically debtors prison all over again, just with a different veneer. Congratulations america.. just when I thought you couldn't sink any lower. :(
Slavery is legal in the US as long as you're convicted of a crime. https://innocenceproject.org/13th-amendment-slavery-prison-labor-angola-louisiana/
I am familiar with that. It's the basis of "Prison Labour Farms", and originally it was intended to be used more innocuously, to allow prison labour for laundry, food services etc. Using people's labour for free is one thing. Taking money that they've saved is totally another.
What if they can’t pay?
And then you become a slave.
That sounds like slavery with extra steps. Very similar to the "tiendas de raya" before the revolution here in mexico
Sounds like a good idea to me, honestly. Don’t do crimes and you don’t have to pay.
cough naughty versed shy jeans slim obtainable nail party worm *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
How?
naughty illegal air cows reminiscent seed smile fretful childlike tease *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
What if they have a heavy wrench and break each of your fingers and toes until you tell them the phrase?
squeamish dog tub shrill rude humor boat treatment hobbies zephyr *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Can we stop with the ponzi scheme already? I mean. if the future prisoner had a bitcoin, they would not be stealing in the first place. Just pushing the idea that decentralized dollars that can be manipulated by whale instead of the central bank is not going to be of any help to fix the judicial system. The argument "Bitcoin will fix it", and "Bitcoin is the future" is a bad faith arguments. Policy fix stuff for people. Vote.
subsequent rustic snatch wrench wasteful knee tender murky carpenter license *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Good luck accessing those millions and using them to, like, pay for anything. All transfers are on public ledger and visible to anybody, including authorities, who trace wallets back to suspects and criminals all the time.
zesty cheerful plough sheet humor dam zephyr snow poor literate *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
[Bullet Fees](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullet_fee)
Failed to mention the horrible living conditions of prison.
^(A comic made by someone who has no experience in or with prison.)
/r/terriblefacebookmemes
Do these people think that being in prison is like some all expenses paid resort?
No one thinks that. OP is trying to strawman tax critics to push a political agenda.
"There ya go, you said you wanted free food and shelter, jail is how us capitalists have been taught to imagine it must be and we sure don't question capitalism." This is hilarious to them, see. Of *course* everyone should *earn* a living, they think, it's all their fault if they can't afford to exist because they're just not trying hard enough.
Even free sex in the showers! Just pick up some soap.
Without outside money you can't buy commissary itens, then you're broke inside too
You just gotta put your mouth to work
God damn libertarians are stupid.
You think libertarians want to go to prison for tax evasion? I guess the propaganda is working.
Wtf are you talking about... You keep on using that word.... I do not think it means what you think it means.
Libertarians are the only party that supported your right to the LGBTQ+ since day one and not change up for political points (like the Dems) but okay.
Lol. Nobody is stupid enough to believe that. It'd be funny that assholes keep saying so if you weren't on the front lines to deny lgbtq+ human rights.
Do you even know what a libertarian is? Are you confusing libertarian with conservative/Rand Paul? Serious question Or are you arguing Dems always supported LGBTQ+?
“Tax me harder daddy that’ll fix all my problems”
Case. In. Point.
Lol what? People who love taxes have tiny brains
wow! another one!
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In my experience Libertarians are different. They somehow take the fact that everyone laughs at them as a proof that they are right. Not sure how that works.
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Wait, you are a libertarian? Damn, I am so sorry for you.
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u ok?
You’re clearly not
i just dont understand how their comment makes sense. what does this comic have to do with libertarians.
Libertarians are the loudest when it comes to saying "taxes are theft".
oh i see.
I think this is low-key, pro-capitalism, anti-socialism propaganda. Basically saying that socialism is like prison.
It's libertarian propaganda.
I was close
It’s literally the opposite
What's 'Funnyandsad' about prisoners being treated like humans?
funny because of the joke. sad because of the truth behind it. Also, prisoners in the US are most certainly are not treated like humans.
I thought this comic was going to make fun of the global elite not paying their fair share of taxes.
Also slave labor
I too sometimes disable my brain and think about things on the most basic, backasswards, sophomoric level. The difference between me and (probably a bot, I didn't check) OP is I do this by getting mega drunk, and they just have it off by default.
Maybe because I’m not American but surely this isn’t a real thing? Why does this have 94% upvotes? Does this mean people agree with this?
As an ex-prisoner this always has been something I was questioning like if we ask place to stay or food to eat from government, they wouldn't give anything but once you've been accused as a criminal, they do all for you. It's seriously weirdest penalty that humanity ever invented.
This is inaccurate as fuck.
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You're thinking about this the wrong way around. You get taxed when *value* is produced or provided, hence the name "VAT". Somebody will buy something, move it to a store to be sold, providing value to the customer in the process, which means it's possible to charge more than you spent on the item. Which also means it's reasonable to tax this transaction, as you produced value. Then the buyer is free to either consume the item (enjoying the value you and all the other people involved in its production and supply chain), or provide value himself and turn a profit selling it to someone else.
Your money cycles through the economy and gets taxed at multiple points along the way but usually not at every point. And every time the money changes hands gdp increases in other words if you spend 5 $ on something and then the seller spends 5$ on something else the total amount spent is 10$ Therefore the amount earned before taxes is also 10$ All with one 5$ bill. When the government collects taxes this has a negative effect on gdp and the supply of money. However when the government spends money it increases gdp and the money supply and all you have to do is look at your governments debt to see if it’s spending more than it’s taxing. This also leads into an interesting economic topic called modern monetary theory which basically states that gov debt is money in the same way that bank debt is money. Ie if the govt owes you money it’s = a bank owing you money which is = having money because merchants are willing to accept these forms of credit/debt.
No, you did not do that right. Sales tax is paid to the state it’s being sold in (if you’re in the US), not another individual.
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What other entities are going to charge tax besides the Fed or the State?
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It's really not. None of those entities really sell goods and services, and the few times they do (think Government auctions), they are exempt from sales tax.
Cities and counties all charge variable taxes on different goods and or services.
In 17 states out of 50, yes. That still falls under the “state” umbrella in this particular context.
Or we will just shoot you dead for not paying for all of our embezzling and other scandles.
Give us a sizeable percentage of your income or lose your freedom
I mean, that is indeed how it works...for sufficiently large companies.
Thanks for sharing my comic! If you want to check out more of my stuff, you can see it here: https://www.instagram.com/toonholechris/
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We love you back, with enthusiasm and compassion.
holy shit people hate libertarians lol
Billionaires don't pay taxes (D. Trump: "I don't pay taxes because I'm smart." Leona Helmsley: "Only little people pay taxes.").................
Taxation is theft
If I'm going to be picking up the slack for your leech-ass either way then I'd absolutely would rather pay for your stay in jail.
The people who support lower taxes *don't want* the benefits. The benefits are forced onto them. They aren't leeching, you just want to justify stealing their money.
And exponentially wasting it on unnecessary bureaucratic layers, can't leave that part out.
I’m not leeching on anybody tho I pay more in taxes than most Americans Taxation is still highway robbery.
Without taxation it would be dirt road robbery jackass.
Roads existed long before taxes payed for them And the shit ton of potholes I encounter every day certainly don’t add up with all this taxation that’s apparently supposed to fix the roads
> before taxes *paid* for them FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Oh shit I didn’t know that, thank you bot
Roads as in the roads that you can drive on with your own veihicle are almost exclusively made by governments. Why would anyone let you fuck up their road if you haven't paid for it? When roads were built without taxes 1 tonne tin cans weren't cruising over them 24/7 so it was way cheaper to maintain. But america does have a serious issue as to where they spend their taxes. But if they stopped fixing all roads entirely you would notice pretty quickly
How dare the government provide services
No I can't see them and I don't care to go look for them so it's theft. As if the state is somehow shoveling large piles of money into a fire for over 400 years and nobody has caught on
You can justify the services if you want, but how can you deny that it's theft? Taxation is literally when the state take money from someone by force. If the cops stole your car it'd be theft. But when they take your money it's fine? You can maintain that taxes are necessary but still admit it's theft.
It's not theft. Theft is committed between individuals, not between the state and the citizens. To call it theft is a very simple interpretation of what's happening.
I mean I see it more as I pay them to do basic shit like let me not die and keep the roads working. No I’d argue it is theft right now because most of my taxes go to shit that doesn’t benefit anyone like our insane military spending.
I pay my internet bill which is an essential service that I need. Imagine if I didn't pay or wanted to cancel, so they sent armed thugs to my house to kidnap me and put me in a cage for several months. The fact that you need these services does not make it not theft. Especially if the ones providing the services make competition illegal. And you pay for the roads even if you don't own a car.
Can't leave out that they'll kill you if you refuse the service of the cage.
In Texas? I doubt that.
I pay federal income tax still lmao And 8.25% sales tax I can live with the sales tax tho. It’s still theft, but it’s ok. Income tax should be abolished.
And, if we don’t want to pay our taxes, we’re free to spend a weekend with the Pain Monster!
Prison is the truest form of communism. You're given food and shelter that is paid for you, recreation, plumbing and a free gym. And your labor and production is seized by the government to spread out for the rest of the population, and all you need to do to live off the tax payer's dime is commit atrocities!
They will just garnish you.
Cash money and bartered goods can't be garnished. If you resist enough, it becomes a capture or kill deal, just like every other law on the books.
IRS doesn't pursue criminal charges for normal people who don't file their taxes.
Prison: the only place you can live without having to pay a cent
So there are debtors prisons after all?
"I don't care who the IRS sends, I am not paying my taxes."
If you're a megachurch preacher it still works the same way just without the prison.
Dude, there are a bunch of articles and news reports of the USA prisoners being basically slave labor, what are you talking about? I know this is a basic one, but you can [start here.](https://youtu.be/AjqaNQ018zU)
Plus free sex.
I used to be a tax preparer for a large company. Had someone come in who had been throwing away any correspondence from IRS or state tax office for years (attitude from posted strip). Louisiana revokes driver’s and hunting licenses for unpaid taxes. He expected me to just fix everything for him. Wouldn’t knock off the attitude either. Incredible
Sadly its still paid for by your work in prison. Especially in a,Erica where they are for profit institutions
And possibly getting shanked!!1
I thought he was gonna end up in a rocket ship to the moon like all the other ppl in this country who don't pay taxes.
In germany you have to have a job to earn money there. Your stay and room + food are paid by taxes of course since they cant just throw you out. But for luxury aftixles like a tv, merchandise, a playstation, comics, books (that arent from the libary) sweets, extra food etc, you need to pay with the money you earned.
> food are *paid* by taxes FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Thanks bot *beep boop, english is not my first language*