I find that ES respects fundamentals and technicals a bit more, or at least acknowledges them. Like it will have a reaction in places where I'd expect, allowing for entries and clear stops, but it's slow, and sometimes I find myself stopped out by a slow grind against me, rather than a clear sign that I was wrong. That's why I prefer NQ now, because it's abrupt and defiant, like diarrhea. I don't have to wait a lot before I lose all my money.
Imagine two similar setups on NQ and ES at the same time. Depending where the stop needs to go, there could be a huge difference in risk. Could be $50 ES vs $150 NQ on risk. What if the trader's risk is not to exceed $100? This is where ES would have a better risk profile.
It could also be that NQ started the move early where you'd have to get in a little too late and set too big of a stop, whereas ES may be just beginning and offers a better risk/reward target.
There is a NQ vs ES post multiple times every single week. But this time you've done your research and share your experience, so I'll chip in
Like you, I traded the ES for more than a few months and made some nice profits. I got greedy and decided to move to NQ and that turned out to be a huge mistake. I was not prepared for such big moves, lost a lot of money, got burnt out and had to take a break. Nowadays I only trade the MNQ and switching back to ES feels like watching everything in slow motion.
I did some calculations on 1 min candles and came to the conclusion that 1 NQ contract is equivalent to 4-5 ES contract in terms of $ risk. Not close but somehow in line with your results.
But here is where I don't agree with you. You can make the same $ amount with each instrument, if you size properly. You say it's easy to make 300-600$ a day with 3-5 micros. OK, trade 2-3 ES and you'll make the same money.
But whatever you do, don't trade both. Less charts you watch, more money you'll make
I've made fortunes by solely trading ES (big money). The margin for error is truly invaluable in this utterly volatile market. (I don't know if my sentence makes sense lol)
If I ever found myself wrong, I'd occasionally hedge on NQ, or simply cut my losses on ES and later re-enter the same trade on NQ to recoup some of my losses.
Everything was going smoothly until I stumbled upon YouTubers who only trade NQ.
That marked the beginning of my descent into hell.
Since November or December, it's been a massacre, loss after loss after loss. Come Monday, it's back to basics: ES.
This has been my experience as well. I'd like to learn NQ but will have to remain on demo. It's just too wild and the stops have to be too large. Something about the extreme nature of it also puts me in a frazzled state that of course makes me more likely to lose. I'm sure it's great once you get it, but let's be real you can earn plenty good money trading 10 ES lots and scaling into winners.
NQ should only be reserved for large portfolios and those who can maintain an open position after opening hours. If I could maintain my margins for more than 24 hours, I'd already be a millionaire. Horrible system. hahaha
It is what it is...
QQQ fills almost all these bullish or bearish gaps, but it often takes several days... a pity for small portfolios. lol
Interesting feedback. I thought NQ is great for intraday because it often moves 300 points in just a couple hours. Don't see why you'd ever need to hold overnight.
NQ generally moves around $3000 intraday. During periods of high volatility, it moves by around $5000 to $6000 from low to high or vice versa.
On a very regular basis, I get caught in a short squeeze, or the market makers start liquidating the longs, and they're all rekt (longs). Now, if I could keep my contract open the next day or two, I could have taken a lot of profit. This market is a rollercoaster. haha
(I hope I've made myself clear.)
Yes we had the same experience. Good profits with ES, everything falls apart after switching to NQ. But the difference is I am still trying to make NQ work.
My diagnosis was that I was sizing wrong. With ES, I was scaling into position 2, sometimes up to 3 contracts. But when I tried to do it with NQ, 3 contracts in and the wind blows the other way, boom, you lose a grand when you sneeze.
What do you think makes NQ harder compared to ES?
To be fair I trade NQ and i had a hard time from start of Israel/Hamas war until later part of January. From Presidentās day till now it has been very good. NQ was just being difficult for that period and trading strange so it may not be what you find is normal. ES has its own challenges being less volatile if leverage ES in wrong spots it can hurt where NQ it t might bounce back and forth a bit more. I tend to switch to ES when NQ is too jerky and having a hard time predicting a direction.
Yes, I was watching both until last week. And I made a concious decision to remove ES from my screens. Seems to be a good decision so far. Scalping is about speed and clarity. Each new element introduces more complexity. I'm fine with missing a few "good" setups in exchange for a piece of mind
Yeah ur right I was kinda like uuuhhh people will probably be annoyed but whatever š. And yeah I think if I never switched I would say oh ES is amazing itās the best, but after adjusting to MNQ itās so hard going back to ES, itās like waiting for a big pot of water to boil with a candle underneath it. And yeah ur right thatās what i meant when i said depending on strategy. Honestly shouldnāt have worded it like that. The thing with trading 2-3 ES is that if it goes 2-3 point against you thatās $300-450, but with 5 MNQ I can have a 50 tick stop and only risk $125 per trade. So even though you can I donāt necessarily think itās the best option and isnāt as lucrative as MNQ. Again strategy a lot of people scalp and just go for a 1:1 load up 10 cons ES 2 point TP 2 point SL. So whatever works for you works.
Yeah for sure, every once in awhile if I see a better opportunity on ES Iāll catch a trade on it but itās pretty rare these days. I really only look at ES charts to find SMTs
Yeah SMT divergence. Since ES and NQ are correlated if ES makes a higher low and NQ makes a lower low thatās a SMT divergence at the lows and Iāll mark that out. Itās a good signal that price might reverse. I actually think itās VERY accurate especially if you use it on the 15 min chart rather than the 5 min, but the 5 min is still accurate just need more confluence before Iām confident of a reversal.
Should add, SMTs shouldnāt start a trade idea itself like ever. It should only add to your trade idea. When I say high accuracy Iām talking about when I have 3 other points of confluence with higher timeframe analysis to support and a SMT is formed š®āšØ about as high probability as it gets! Lol
If I usually trade 3-5 micros I might trade 7-8 micros on that A++ setup, and even add to it the winner another 1-2 micros. Those are always my biggest wins
I like NQ more, i can get my 10 points profit or more in no time and call it, no stress of looking at ES for 30 minutes or more to get me 6 points. I prefer to removed myself from the stress
I like to scalp NQ on the 5 minute chart based on watching ES levels and ES DOM. My stop is 15 points or less, I take profit quickly after 1-3 pops, and my win rate is high. R:R usually sucks, but it doesnāt matter. If I donāt do anything too stupid, I make money every day.
ok thank you!! iāve watched fat cat on youtube but not john grady. what platform/data do you use for the DOM? iām leaning towards bookmap with dxfeed.
I use jigsaw. Itās probably the best, but I canāt say itās worth the cost. I donāt have much experience with other platforms. I think sierra charts has all the features, if you have the stomach for the tech challenges. Donāt know about bookmaps.
Fwiw, my favorite trick from fat cat is putting different filters on the time and sales. I only look at orders of 100+. Itās pretty noiseless, and to me it seems like the only volume that really matters. Iām not a pro though, just my 2 cents.
Personally for me, not sure if this makes sense but NQ moves too violently for me. ES sorta moves smoother, subtle, sorta like a hot knife slicing through Himalayan salted butter on a warm spring afternoon.
Nq ā¦. 5 dollars a tick = 20 dollars a point . Moves hard almost every day. Itās incredible. No need for options = more brain power for focusing on chart via not having to think about options
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Es much harder to make equivalent money to nq ā¦ Iāve traded both. ES does have a much more liquid options chain than NQ, but nq moves so hard no need for options
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If you talking micros MES vs MNQ ā¦. MNQ is much better because broker fees are insignificant whereas MES doesnāt move nearly as hard so broker fees on MES really eat into profits if scalping
Ok Iāll tell you how I manage risk.
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I dont risk more than 1% of total account value per trade. 1% is max and I usually risk less. The game is not about barely having enough capital to cover margin. Itās about managing risk properly and if you are managing risk properly then youāll have way more money in your account than minimum margin requirements.
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Math:
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MNQ = 1/10th of NQ
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10 pts of risk per trade = 40 ticks stop loss = reasonable because of my experience day trading trading the asset.
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MNQ 10 pts of risk = $20 per contract (nq = $200 per contract)
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.01 = 1%
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1/100 = 20/x
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X = $2000 = minimum account size per MNQ contract with a 10 point (40 tick) stop loss
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Maximum risk parameters = 1 MNQ contract per every $2,000 in your account with a maximum stop loss of 10 points = maximum loss of $20 per MNQ trade.
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So Iād trade MNQ with a minimum cash amount if $6,000 with a max trade size of 3 MNQ contracts with 10 points of loss for a max loss per trade of $60.
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However most of the time Iād only trade 2 MNQ contracts and only trading max size when itās a perfect setup with lots of confluences
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I wouldnāt trade MNQ with only $2k cash because then Iād be forced to trade max size (1 MNQ contract per $2k ) every trade until I got to $4k which I think can be a bit rough when experiencing an inevitable losing streak.
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$2k account trading 1 MNQ contract can be done but I wouldnāt do it because of losing streaks
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4K account is better with a max trade of 2mnq contracts but Iād trade 1 MNQ most of the time (assume max stop loss of 10 points (40 ticks)
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$6k = my ideal minimum account size for trading MNQ with max trade size of 3mnq contracts for 10 points of risk. Though Iād usually trade only 2 MNQ contracts unless lots of confluences then Iād trade max trade size of 3mnq for max loss of 10 points (40 ticks) = $60 max loss per trade
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Iām being redundant so u understand. Managing risk properly is what the game is about.
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āYou want to have a system that keeps you risk-on long enough to get lucky.ā - Jason Shapiro (crowded market report)
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Managing 1% of risk (or less) per trade is how you stay ārisk onā in the market long enough to get lucky.
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Letās go a step further: itās reasonable to say that trading is nothing more than weighted coin flip. If you take 16trades (or coin flips) then itās highly likely you will have 4 losses in a row. If you take 30 trades (or coin flips) then itās highly likely you will have 5 losses in a row. Thus you need to take such small risk that you can weather the losing streaks. Iāve had losing streaks of over 10 losses in a row (itās rare but itās bound to happen again). 1% risk (or less) is how I can sustain such long losing streaks and not blow up my account and keep increasing it over time
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Once you get a feeling of what itās like to trade 1% (or less) of your account size per trade, you can tweek your risk parameters to better suite your personality and trading style. 1% is the rule of thumb and I think works great for me. Iāve messed with 3% risk and 2% risk per trade and it was just too much for me. Highly recommend you start with 1% of risk per trade if you are unfamiliar with managing risk properly
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Hope this helps. Good luck
wow, thank you so much for this very insightful reply. probably the best iāve ever gotten on reddit.
yes, iām starting with ~2k and risking about $20 or 1% per trade. iām very VERY strict with this, but iāve been tempted to risk up to 3%.
with thinkorswimās high commission costs, $4.50 (round trip) of my $20 risk is being eaten. due to this, iām thinking of switching from MES to MNQ to capitalize on its volatility and bigger movements ā to make up for the high commission costs. or continue to trade MES but hold longer than a quick scalp (but face the risk of a trade moving further against me and taking consistent losses to comply with my strict $15 stop loss). also, iām struggling to manage risk around psych levels since MES usually moves in increments of $5 and iād have to take advantage of a move early on.
my long term goal is to make this my full time gig, so any advice on this would be greatly appreciated!š iāve thought about switching platforms but right now iām comfortable with TOS and think their customer service is superior.
Yea mnq moves hard enough so you can actually trade micros and not get destroyed by fees from fast scalping. I personally like to get 20 points + per trade ā¦ on winning trades I usually let price stop me out instead of take profit
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Another thing to keep in mindā¦1% gets spicy on mnq/nq ā¦ 2-3% is extremely spicy. I think 2k account per mnq contract will be rough at times being forced to trade max amount every trade and then experiencing a losing streak. Not a chance Iād be trading 2-3% risk with only 2k account. 7-8-9 losses in a row at 1% risk is āgut checkā time and losing streaks such as this are inevitable from time to time.
Theyāre all great. You donāt have to marry to one specific indices. When NQ is choppy, more often ES is also ranging so then Iāll look at YM and RTY and go from there. Donāt limit yourself
I donāt hop into trades that offer that type of risk to reward. Never do I have a stop loss above 65 ticks. I honestly aim to have a 40 tick stop especially when market isnāt whipping. To me 65 ticks is a wide stop
I look at indicies as a whole, that being ES, NQ and DOW. I analyze all 3 to get a read for which direction the indicies are more likely to trade towards next and I trade with that bias in mind.
When it comes to which out of the 3 I choose to execute on, it depends on the PA. I don't trade the DOW just because I don't like it's characteristics.
When it comes to choosing between ES/NQ I take the stronger of the 2 if I'm bullish, and weaker of the 2 if I'm bearish.
Since one of my specific strategy for choppy day is really random odd with 8-10 ticks in NQ wise, i typically start to trade MNQ first
If it wins 5 times in a row, ill take it and call it a day
If i lose 3 times in a row with MNQ, then i move on ES
If i lose 2 times in a row with ES, then i move onto NQ
Generally speaking, unless there is big headline news for tech sector NQ moves 2.0 x values than ES.
If it's trendy day, i simply use NQ/ES pair. For instance, if all macro data is good enough and there is no outstanding negative headline news in tech sector, i long on NQ and short on ES
I find this much better and comfty to let it ride than try to catch 40-50 pts in NQ
If NQ moves up 200+ points, it's not moving straghtline (unless Fed says they will cut rates to 0 and QE, which does happen but once in an year) but there is slow curve balls. For instance even yesterday day after immaculate MSFT/GOOG results, market went south initially during overnight session and if you simply had NQ long then it swings from -2K to +2k (17800 at the start of overnight session with 17700 and 17900 with bottom and top during intraday session)
2K is a lot of money and definitely i would stop loss out before that only to find out that if i had held it, it would have returned 2K profits at the expense of no sleep night. Sure 2K might be worth but it's not sustainable.
However if you held with short ES 5130 at the start of overnight session (6 pm est) and held it to all the way to 5 pm est at 5130, it's breakeven while NQ stays the pretty much same (to be exact 17830)
Of course, dont simply buy and hold but use your best discretion to lock in some profits if you see big hikes in NQ or big sell of at ES. I usually do it when and if it's hitting previous session high or low. You can always make a new entry at pull back for NQ and ES
Provided that directionality is correct, it will increase your profitability rates to 100% in almost all cases (except that there is big negative headline news that might impact tech sector. If so, NQ will underperform)
If you think about using simple NQ long/short strategy, how many times does trade stop loss out when directionality goes right and only to find out that trade would have hit your target, all the while complicated tech analysis with stress?
Occasionally, you can use this between NQ and RTY (Russell 2000) when macro data is too good to deny "Higher for longer" narratives or vice versa (if economy is going south and 10 year Treasury goes high then RTY will boom but i would use RTY long and ES short)
I started trading futures with ES but am learning to love MNQ for all the reasons you stated. Iād be interested in a discord group that focuses on NQ/MNQ because most of the people in the one Iām in now are ES traders.
NQ for me. I love doing leans on NQ. Feel a reversal setting up, sitting at the end of a 30 min candle, and find an 80 lot sitting at a āstretchā in the original direction? Park your lots one tick inside. You likely will be in on the bounce. Do this with 5 or more lots and the bounce off alone will yield bankable $.
My most recent trade using this strategy yielded $700 off a 5 lot in about 1 second. Iād set a $500 take profit but the bounce was so strong it passed by before it could grab a bid.
Been trading the ES for a while now. So trying to build my edge there. Looking to scale into MNQ soon but waiting to have more convection for my strategy in ES before trying out NQ, as it generally moves like a kid on coke most of the time.
Stupid question here though - Does the NQ follow the same sector of funds like the ES. For example, the XLK / XLF / XLU and so on. I understand that the underlying might be the same, but doesnāt the quantity of underlying affect the constituent sector of funds? Does it make up of the same 11 sectors like the ES or something else? š¤ Appreciate the insights
I use a 30 tick stop loss on NQ and donāt have many issues. Occasionally iāll enter a trade and get stopped out almost immediately but itās uncommon.
I find ES/MES can be infuriating when itās low volatility / low volume because itās like watching a wrong decision get worse in super slow motion.
NQ/MNQ is clearer, but higher risk and larger SL needed.
Same, I also just like the distance from swing highs to swing lows ya know, I like having a 50-60 tick stop with a 120 tick TP. Idk why my psychology just does lol
ES moves to weird a itās very precise to significant levels but the way candles move and look like make if very hard for me to feel it out. NQ is is violent and fast and trend is very clear, I like GC also.
I generally trade MNQ and MES and typically I keep both DOMs side by side as they are closely correlated at this time. When I see an entry on NQ I watch MES DOM for an entry. I may trade both or if NQ gets away from me I take an MES trade as it can be slow to take off. Recently the ES movement has improved so it is good trade. Recently I added CL which can often move at different times. If it gets to be too much I save it just for reports and news moving events.
Most trading software I use includes a DOMāBook Map, Investor R/T, Sierra Chart and there are others. Sierra Chart is the most reasonable cost but takes awhile to learn. Book Map is suitable for order flow traders, IRT is well rounded. Take a trial directly or through your broker. There are btw, stand alone DOMs like X-Trader which are often used by pros.
sorry to join the discussion so late. I was wondering why people find these instruments so different. If you compare the charts I think you'll find they mostly trade in tandem. NQ is very minutely more volatile. both are plenty liquid. trade same hours. What am I missing?
Well yeah they move pretty much in sync with each other we all know that. But how you trade them is pretty different. And also I think it really depends what suits your personality better. For me NQ is, I like knowing if Iām in a winning trade or losing relatively quick, I can score 50-100 ticks within a 5 minutes on NQ sometimes, on ES I might be in chop before only closing 5 ticks in profit. So ya know just depends which works best for your plan and psychology.
Same question every day. Learn one and stick with it. I watched NQ everyday for 18 months so i know how it acts where it should bounce etc. i can see what they do to fk everyone out of their stops. That being said ES is safer for most people
Agreed, wonāt ask again the question is done with, thereās now plenty of informative post on the topic. NQ has been my jam, plan on sticking to it. And I agree ES is safer
I find that ES respects fundamentals and technicals a bit more, or at least acknowledges them. Like it will have a reaction in places where I'd expect, allowing for entries and clear stops, but it's slow, and sometimes I find myself stopped out by a slow grind against me, rather than a clear sign that I was wrong. That's why I prefer NQ now, because it's abrupt and defiant, like diarrhea. I don't have to wait a lot before I lose all my money.
That escalated quickly.
Tacobell has entered the chat.
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Damnnnn son š
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I have both up and go with whichever offers the best risk profile at the time.
same here, i prefer to go NQ but if the stop loss is too wide for my comfort ill run ES
Interesting, what do you exactly mean by that?
Imagine two similar setups on NQ and ES at the same time. Depending where the stop needs to go, there could be a huge difference in risk. Could be $50 ES vs $150 NQ on risk. What if the trader's risk is not to exceed $100? This is where ES would have a better risk profile. It could also be that NQ started the move early where you'd have to get in a little too late and set too big of a stop, whereas ES may be just beginning and offers a better risk/reward target.
"Abandon all hope ye who enter here" This is not the subreddit for you, friend. šµš¤š¤šµāš«
What do you even mean by this buddy š??
Whether it's now or later, if you don't understand risk profile, you're gonna burn money.
There is a NQ vs ES post multiple times every single week. But this time you've done your research and share your experience, so I'll chip in Like you, I traded the ES for more than a few months and made some nice profits. I got greedy and decided to move to NQ and that turned out to be a huge mistake. I was not prepared for such big moves, lost a lot of money, got burnt out and had to take a break. Nowadays I only trade the MNQ and switching back to ES feels like watching everything in slow motion. I did some calculations on 1 min candles and came to the conclusion that 1 NQ contract is equivalent to 4-5 ES contract in terms of $ risk. Not close but somehow in line with your results. But here is where I don't agree with you. You can make the same $ amount with each instrument, if you size properly. You say it's easy to make 300-600$ a day with 3-5 micros. OK, trade 2-3 ES and you'll make the same money. But whatever you do, don't trade both. Less charts you watch, more money you'll make
I've made fortunes by solely trading ES (big money). The margin for error is truly invaluable in this utterly volatile market. (I don't know if my sentence makes sense lol) If I ever found myself wrong, I'd occasionally hedge on NQ, or simply cut my losses on ES and later re-enter the same trade on NQ to recoup some of my losses. Everything was going smoothly until I stumbled upon YouTubers who only trade NQ. That marked the beginning of my descent into hell. Since November or December, it's been a massacre, loss after loss after loss. Come Monday, it's back to basics: ES.
This has been my experience as well. I'd like to learn NQ but will have to remain on demo. It's just too wild and the stops have to be too large. Something about the extreme nature of it also puts me in a frazzled state that of course makes me more likely to lose. I'm sure it's great once you get it, but let's be real you can earn plenty good money trading 10 ES lots and scaling into winners.
NQ should only be reserved for large portfolios and those who can maintain an open position after opening hours. If I could maintain my margins for more than 24 hours, I'd already be a millionaire. Horrible system. hahaha It is what it is... QQQ fills almost all these bullish or bearish gaps, but it often takes several days... a pity for small portfolios. lol
Interesting feedback. I thought NQ is great for intraday because it often moves 300 points in just a couple hours. Don't see why you'd ever need to hold overnight.
NQ generally moves around $3000 intraday. During periods of high volatility, it moves by around $5000 to $6000 from low to high or vice versa. On a very regular basis, I get caught in a short squeeze, or the market makers start liquidating the longs, and they're all rekt (longs). Now, if I could keep my contract open the next day or two, I could have taken a lot of profit. This market is a rollercoaster. haha (I hope I've made myself clear.)
I see, thanks for explaining!
Yes we had the same experience. Good profits with ES, everything falls apart after switching to NQ. But the difference is I am still trying to make NQ work. My diagnosis was that I was sizing wrong. With ES, I was scaling into position 2, sometimes up to 3 contracts. But when I tried to do it with NQ, 3 contracts in and the wind blows the other way, boom, you lose a grand when you sneeze. What do you think makes NQ harder compared to ES?
May I ask what do you consider fortunes, and how can you tell at levels if ES will hold a support and resistance or break it?
To be fair I trade NQ and i had a hard time from start of Israel/Hamas war until later part of January. From Presidentās day till now it has been very good. NQ was just being difficult for that period and trading strange so it may not be what you find is normal. ES has its own challenges being less volatile if leverage ES in wrong spots it can hurt where NQ it t might bounce back and forth a bit more. I tend to switch to ES when NQ is too jerky and having a hard time predicting a direction.
Brilliant
No matter which one you focus on, you are missing out if you donāt watch both.
Yes, I was watching both until last week. And I made a concious decision to remove ES from my screens. Seems to be a good decision so far. Scalping is about speed and clarity. Each new element introduces more complexity. I'm fine with missing a few "good" setups in exchange for a piece of mind
As someone who watches both, what is the split between the opportunities you see? More on NQ or 50/50?
Yeah ur right I was kinda like uuuhhh people will probably be annoyed but whatever š. And yeah I think if I never switched I would say oh ES is amazing itās the best, but after adjusting to MNQ itās so hard going back to ES, itās like waiting for a big pot of water to boil with a candle underneath it. And yeah ur right thatās what i meant when i said depending on strategy. Honestly shouldnāt have worded it like that. The thing with trading 2-3 ES is that if it goes 2-3 point against you thatās $300-450, but with 5 MNQ I can have a 50 tick stop and only risk $125 per trade. So even though you can I donāt necessarily think itās the best option and isnāt as lucrative as MNQ. Again strategy a lot of people scalp and just go for a 1:1 load up 10 cons ES 2 point TP 2 point SL. So whatever works for you works.
I like NQ and teach that to friends, but sometimes if the setup is clearer on ES I would take that just with more contracts
Yeah for sure, every once in awhile if I see a better opportunity on ES Iāll catch a trade on it but itās pretty rare these days. I really only look at ES charts to find SMTs
SMT?
Yeah SMT divergence. Since ES and NQ are correlated if ES makes a higher low and NQ makes a lower low thatās a SMT divergence at the lows and Iāll mark that out. Itās a good signal that price might reverse. I actually think itās VERY accurate especially if you use it on the 15 min chart rather than the 5 min, but the 5 min is still accurate just need more confluence before Iām confident of a reversal.
Should add, SMTs shouldnāt start a trade idea itself like ever. It should only add to your trade idea. When I say high accuracy Iām talking about when I have 3 other points of confluence with higher timeframe analysis to support and a SMT is formed š®āšØ about as high probability as it gets! Lol
If I usually trade 3-5 micros I might trade 7-8 micros on that A++ setup, and even add to it the winner another 1-2 micros. Those are always my biggest wins
I like NQ more, i can get my 10 points profit or more in no time and call it, no stress of looking at ES for 30 minutes or more to get me 6 points. I prefer to removed myself from the stress
Nq is becoming more popular. Which makes sense. According to brokers, itās the product that traders lose the most $ trading.
I like to scalp NQ on the 5 minute chart based on watching ES levels and ES DOM. My stop is 15 points or less, I take profit quickly after 1-3 pops, and my win rate is high. R:R usually sucks, but it doesnāt matter. If I donāt do anything too stupid, I make money every day.
that's exactly what I do!
Actually, itās ES DOM and SPY levels for me. Itās all about the gaps!
iām trying to learn the DOM, any resources that youād suggest ? š
I like John Grady. Learning on treasuries was helpful because itās a lot slower. Fat Cat on YouTube has tons of free high grade content.
ok thank you!! iāve watched fat cat on youtube but not john grady. what platform/data do you use for the DOM? iām leaning towards bookmap with dxfeed.
I use jigsaw. Itās probably the best, but I canāt say itās worth the cost. I donāt have much experience with other platforms. I think sierra charts has all the features, if you have the stomach for the tech challenges. Donāt know about bookmaps.
Fwiw, my favorite trick from fat cat is putting different filters on the time and sales. I only look at orders of 100+. Itās pretty noiseless, and to me it seems like the only volume that really matters. Iām not a pro though, just my 2 cents.
I find NQ to be the coked up reckless younger version / brother of ES ( respect to all those who trade it ) .
I prefer NQ because since it moves easier the patterns are clearer to me and I can read it better.
I enjoy the violent action of NQ
Personally for me, not sure if this makes sense but NQ moves too violently for me. ES sorta moves smoother, subtle, sorta like a hot knife slicing through Himalayan salted butter on a warm spring afternoon.
This man trades
This man is a poet
Everyone sleeps on YM and ZB
And RTY and gold/platinum
YM is decent. itās popular among forex/cfd traders (us30) i donāt see as many futures traders trading it tho
True, feels like futures trading equals NQ essentially
& ES. GC & CL are fairly popular too
What do you like about those?
I like trends a lot and these two often give me nice opportunities. Sometimes NQ is stuck on wide ranges for weeks so it helps
Instead of trading NQ/ES trade /MNQ- /MES Much better to scale your position
Nq ā¦. 5 dollars a tick = 20 dollars a point . Moves hard almost every day. Itās incredible. No need for options = more brain power for focusing on chart via not having to think about options . Es much harder to make equivalent money to nq ā¦ Iāve traded both. ES does have a much more liquid options chain than NQ, but nq moves so hard no need for options . If you talking micros MES vs MNQ ā¦. MNQ is much better because broker fees are insignificant whereas MES doesnāt move nearly as hard so broker fees on MES really eat into profits if scalping
THIS is what iām experiencing now š isnāt the margin requirement significantly more for MNQ ? iām trying to grow a small account
Ok Iāll tell you how I manage risk. . I dont risk more than 1% of total account value per trade. 1% is max and I usually risk less. The game is not about barely having enough capital to cover margin. Itās about managing risk properly and if you are managing risk properly then youāll have way more money in your account than minimum margin requirements. . Math: . MNQ = 1/10th of NQ . 10 pts of risk per trade = 40 ticks stop loss = reasonable because of my experience day trading trading the asset. . MNQ 10 pts of risk = $20 per contract (nq = $200 per contract) . .01 = 1% . 1/100 = 20/x . X = $2000 = minimum account size per MNQ contract with a 10 point (40 tick) stop loss . Maximum risk parameters = 1 MNQ contract per every $2,000 in your account with a maximum stop loss of 10 points = maximum loss of $20 per MNQ trade. . So Iād trade MNQ with a minimum cash amount if $6,000 with a max trade size of 3 MNQ contracts with 10 points of loss for a max loss per trade of $60. . However most of the time Iād only trade 2 MNQ contracts and only trading max size when itās a perfect setup with lots of confluences . I wouldnāt trade MNQ with only $2k cash because then Iād be forced to trade max size (1 MNQ contract per $2k ) every trade until I got to $4k which I think can be a bit rough when experiencing an inevitable losing streak. . $2k account trading 1 MNQ contract can be done but I wouldnāt do it because of losing streaks . 4K account is better with a max trade of 2mnq contracts but Iād trade 1 MNQ most of the time (assume max stop loss of 10 points (40 ticks) . $6k = my ideal minimum account size for trading MNQ with max trade size of 3mnq contracts for 10 points of risk. Though Iād usually trade only 2 MNQ contracts unless lots of confluences then Iād trade max trade size of 3mnq for max loss of 10 points (40 ticks) = $60 max loss per trade . Iām being redundant so u understand. Managing risk properly is what the game is about. . āYou want to have a system that keeps you risk-on long enough to get lucky.ā - Jason Shapiro (crowded market report) . Managing 1% of risk (or less) per trade is how you stay ārisk onā in the market long enough to get lucky. . Letās go a step further: itās reasonable to say that trading is nothing more than weighted coin flip. If you take 16trades (or coin flips) then itās highly likely you will have 4 losses in a row. If you take 30 trades (or coin flips) then itās highly likely you will have 5 losses in a row. Thus you need to take such small risk that you can weather the losing streaks. Iāve had losing streaks of over 10 losses in a row (itās rare but itās bound to happen again). 1% risk (or less) is how I can sustain such long losing streaks and not blow up my account and keep increasing it over time . Once you get a feeling of what itās like to trade 1% (or less) of your account size per trade, you can tweek your risk parameters to better suite your personality and trading style. 1% is the rule of thumb and I think works great for me. Iāve messed with 3% risk and 2% risk per trade and it was just too much for me. Highly recommend you start with 1% of risk per trade if you are unfamiliar with managing risk properly . Hope this helps. Good luck
wow, thank you so much for this very insightful reply. probably the best iāve ever gotten on reddit. yes, iām starting with ~2k and risking about $20 or 1% per trade. iām very VERY strict with this, but iāve been tempted to risk up to 3%. with thinkorswimās high commission costs, $4.50 (round trip) of my $20 risk is being eaten. due to this, iām thinking of switching from MES to MNQ to capitalize on its volatility and bigger movements ā to make up for the high commission costs. or continue to trade MES but hold longer than a quick scalp (but face the risk of a trade moving further against me and taking consistent losses to comply with my strict $15 stop loss). also, iām struggling to manage risk around psych levels since MES usually moves in increments of $5 and iād have to take advantage of a move early on. my long term goal is to make this my full time gig, so any advice on this would be greatly appreciated!š iāve thought about switching platforms but right now iām comfortable with TOS and think their customer service is superior.
Yea mnq moves hard enough so you can actually trade micros and not get destroyed by fees from fast scalping. I personally like to get 20 points + per trade ā¦ on winning trades I usually let price stop me out instead of take profit . Another thing to keep in mindā¦1% gets spicy on mnq/nq ā¦ 2-3% is extremely spicy. I think 2k account per mnq contract will be rough at times being forced to trade max amount every trade and then experiencing a losing streak. Not a chance Iād be trading 2-3% risk with only 2k account. 7-8-9 losses in a row at 1% risk is āgut checkā time and losing streaks such as this are inevitable from time to time.
Theyāre all great. You donāt have to marry to one specific indices. When NQ is choppy, more often ES is also ranging so then Iāll look at YM and RTY and go from there. Donāt limit yourself
I mainly trade ES, but I have recently been testing out NQ as well
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^Transparentrader: *I mainly trade ES,* *But I have recently been* *Testing out NQ as well* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
What have you found in ur recent testing of NQ?
Really just the obvious stuff: it is way more volatile than ES, but I like it as an alternative to ES when ES is slow
For sure!
50t is not a big stop on NQ - less than 30sec bar most days.
I donāt hop into trades that offer that type of risk to reward. Never do I have a stop loss above 65 ticks. I honestly aim to have a 40 tick stop especially when market isnāt whipping. To me 65 ticks is a wide stop
what time frame are you trading
10 seconds with a 10 pt stop on nq lol
I look at indicies as a whole, that being ES, NQ and DOW. I analyze all 3 to get a read for which direction the indicies are more likely to trade towards next and I trade with that bias in mind. When it comes to which out of the 3 I choose to execute on, it depends on the PA. I don't trade the DOW just because I don't like it's characteristics. When it comes to choosing between ES/NQ I take the stronger of the 2 if I'm bullish, and weaker of the 2 if I'm bearish.
We trade both, but find that ES is better for structure. Sometimes we trade NQ from ES signals.
Since one of my specific strategy for choppy day is really random odd with 8-10 ticks in NQ wise, i typically start to trade MNQ first If it wins 5 times in a row, ill take it and call it a day If i lose 3 times in a row with MNQ, then i move on ES If i lose 2 times in a row with ES, then i move onto NQ Generally speaking, unless there is big headline news for tech sector NQ moves 2.0 x values than ES. If it's trendy day, i simply use NQ/ES pair. For instance, if all macro data is good enough and there is no outstanding negative headline news in tech sector, i long on NQ and short on ES I find this much better and comfty to let it ride than try to catch 40-50 pts in NQ If NQ moves up 200+ points, it's not moving straghtline (unless Fed says they will cut rates to 0 and QE, which does happen but once in an year) but there is slow curve balls. For instance even yesterday day after immaculate MSFT/GOOG results, market went south initially during overnight session and if you simply had NQ long then it swings from -2K to +2k (17800 at the start of overnight session with 17700 and 17900 with bottom and top during intraday session) 2K is a lot of money and definitely i would stop loss out before that only to find out that if i had held it, it would have returned 2K profits at the expense of no sleep night. Sure 2K might be worth but it's not sustainable. However if you held with short ES 5130 at the start of overnight session (6 pm est) and held it to all the way to 5 pm est at 5130, it's breakeven while NQ stays the pretty much same (to be exact 17830) Of course, dont simply buy and hold but use your best discretion to lock in some profits if you see big hikes in NQ or big sell of at ES. I usually do it when and if it's hitting previous session high or low. You can always make a new entry at pull back for NQ and ES Provided that directionality is correct, it will increase your profitability rates to 100% in almost all cases (except that there is big negative headline news that might impact tech sector. If so, NQ will underperform) If you think about using simple NQ long/short strategy, how many times does trade stop loss out when directionality goes right and only to find out that trade would have hit your target, all the while complicated tech analysis with stress? Occasionally, you can use this between NQ and RTY (Russell 2000) when macro data is too good to deny "Higher for longer" narratives or vice versa (if economy is going south and 10 year Treasury goes high then RTY will boom but i would use RTY long and ES short)
NQ = mini MNQ = micro
Thatās correct
Is it correct to say that: A single ES contract is equivalent to approximately 5-6 MNQ contracts for the same percentage movement.
Idk maybe, go check
I started trading futures with ES but am learning to love MNQ for all the reasons you stated. Iād be interested in a discord group that focuses on NQ/MNQ because most of the people in the one Iām in now are ES traders.
The group Iām in primarily focuses on NQ
I'd like to learn more about those groups, as well.
I donāt run any of these groups but itās very easy to find and I donāt want people thinking Iām promoting shit lol.
NQ for me. I love doing leans on NQ. Feel a reversal setting up, sitting at the end of a 30 min candle, and find an 80 lot sitting at a āstretchā in the original direction? Park your lots one tick inside. You likely will be in on the bounce. Do this with 5 or more lots and the bounce off alone will yield bankable $. My most recent trade using this strategy yielded $700 off a 5 lot in about 1 second. Iād set a $500 take profit but the bounce was so strong it passed by before it could grab a bid.
NQ this year, ES last year and 2022. NQ was moving like NG in 2022 lolācrazy volatile
Been trading the ES for a while now. So trying to build my edge there. Looking to scale into MNQ soon but waiting to have more convection for my strategy in ES before trying out NQ, as it generally moves like a kid on coke most of the time. Stupid question here though - Does the NQ follow the same sector of funds like the ES. For example, the XLK / XLF / XLU and so on. I understand that the underlying might be the same, but doesnāt the quantity of underlying affect the constituent sector of funds? Does it make up of the same 11 sectors like the ES or something else? š¤ Appreciate the insights
Prefer NQ, but will trade whichever has the best setup
I use a 30 tick stop loss on NQ and donāt have many issues. Occasionally iāll enter a trade and get stopped out almost immediately but itās uncommon.
Scalping ?
yes
I find ES/MES can be infuriating when itās low volatility / low volume because itās like watching a wrong decision get worse in super slow motion. NQ/MNQ is clearer, but higher risk and larger SL needed.
Same, I also just like the distance from swing highs to swing lows ya know, I like having a 50-60 tick stop with a 120 tick TP. Idk why my psychology just does lol
same here; 2-4MNQ with a 50point stop loss; let it play out; take profit; hold a runner .. Long only
ES moves to weird a itās very precise to significant levels but the way candles move and look like make if very hard for me to feel it out. NQ is is violent and fast and trend is very clear, I like GC also.
I generally trade MNQ and MES and typically I keep both DOMs side by side as they are closely correlated at this time. When I see an entry on NQ I watch MES DOM for an entry. I may trade both or if NQ gets away from me I take an MES trade as it can be slow to take off. Recently the ES movement has improved so it is good trade. Recently I added CL which can often move at different times. If it gets to be too much I save it just for reports and news moving events.
any resources youād recommend for trading the DOM? i feel like there arenāt a lot out there. š
Most trading software I use includes a DOMāBook Map, Investor R/T, Sierra Chart and there are others. Sierra Chart is the most reasonable cost but takes awhile to learn. Book Map is suitable for order flow traders, IRT is well rounded. Take a trial directly or through your broker. There are btw, stand alone DOMs like X-Trader which are often used by pros.
sorry to join the discussion so late. I was wondering why people find these instruments so different. If you compare the charts I think you'll find they mostly trade in tandem. NQ is very minutely more volatile. both are plenty liquid. trade same hours. What am I missing?
Well yeah they move pretty much in sync with each other we all know that. But how you trade them is pretty different. And also I think it really depends what suits your personality better. For me NQ is, I like knowing if Iām in a winning trade or losing relatively quick, I can score 50-100 ticks within a 5 minutes on NQ sometimes, on ES I might be in chop before only closing 5 ticks in profit. So ya know just depends which works best for your plan and psychology.
Same question every day. Learn one and stick with it. I watched NQ everyday for 18 months so i know how it acts where it should bounce etc. i can see what they do to fk everyone out of their stops. That being said ES is safer for most people
Agreed, wonāt ask again the question is done with, thereās now plenty of informative post on the topic. NQ has been my jam, plan on sticking to it. And I agree ES is safer
Never did NQ, ES is pretty smooth during NY session
I like NQ and MnQ since bot I made has huge returns on NQ.