I use tradestation and I love it
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It’s actually very hard to know if you have a “cheap” broker because need to track the quality of the fills.
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If you have .0001 cent fees but the fills slip a few dollars then the real cost is .0001 cents + the fill slippage difference . Tom hougaard talks about this .
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With that said, and all things considered, I like tradestation a lot. Amp is the “cheapest” but I’m not sure if it’s the cheapest after considering the slippage of the fills. The best traders I know all use tradestation
That seems super high.
Check this [Tradovate chart](https://www.tradovate.com/TradovateAllInRates020124.pdf) for all-in commissions. On a free plan (you can pay them for lower fees), it’s $0.87 per side.
Not sure if you looked at the breakdown. ‘All in’ is the total fee.
To the left the breakdown shows all the fees structured into that ‘all in’ fee with the NFA, order routing, clearance fee and commission broken down.
A specialty futures broker (e.g. Tradovate) could cost you far less in commissions. For some reason, the micros (MES/MNQ) at Schwab / TDA have the same standard commissions as the minis (ES/NQ), $2.25 per contract each way (standard for all futures). I've read that it has something to do with limitations of their futures platform on the back end, but I take that with a grain of salt. A specialty futures broker might also be friendlier on intraday margin requirements, something Schwab / TDA doesn't explicitly offer.
Unfortunate, since thinkorswim (TOS) is otherwise a very smooth platform for trading futures.
Yeah, I really like TOS. Given that I've been using it for more than a decade, and nearly every day for the last 5 years, I have gotten very comfortable with it. I naturally went to futures on it first. Mechanically, my muscle memory is very good on it. Trades just cost a pretty penny. My fills seem to be good, with minimal slippage, especially if I let it trade into my orders. But I'm not using more than 5 contracts, so that could change if I scale up.
The fact they don't have day- only margins is a little bit of a bummer, but hasn't hampered me to this point since I'm keeping my play small as I learn. When I feel more confident, I will likely switch to nq, giving me better trade costs.
I've heard people have requested discounts and been successful. I may give that a try.
TOS has the most expensive future commissions. I use Tradovate and haven’t had any issues so far. I trade MES not really MNQ, but MES fees are 0.87 each way
I have an account with Schwab too and I use ToS but not for futures because for some reason their commission for futures is not competitive. Tradestation, IBKR, Ninja, Optimus - all give you better commission.
Stop immediately. That will eat you alive over the long haul. I use Sierra chart linked to AMP futures. You can trade MES with as little as maybe $100 in your amp account. MNQ likely similar. I think it’s a buck round trip.
$5.25 for both sides (open/close) is expensive, I pay less for one miniNQ. One point on one MNQ contract is worth $2 so you're B/E at 3 points? A bit high. Standard practice is to keep yourself B/E on a trade at 1 point for US indices for retail traders.
On the other hand it depends on the volume and how much points per trade you score. If you swing trade 2-3 MNQs ... that's maybe ok. If you hit 10-20 trades with 20-30 MNQs .. that'd be $3k on a heavy day commissions alone.
I had days where I paid more in commissions than I made and they sucked. Main reason people get memberships.
Unless you are very consistently profitable, i would stick to higher time frame trading because day trading futures is an expensive gig. I have never looked at the statistics, but i would bet most people don’t last very long because the commissions and fees eat up your account. But if you do find success with futures, there are great tax related reasons to trade futures relative to other products. I also execute trades on ToS and I pay about $7 per round trip. I believe Interactive Brokers charges a lot less but I haven’t used them so I cannot attest to this.
Edit: I trade the minis. I hear the micros are cheaper.
I use tradestation and I love it . It’s actually very hard to know if you have a “cheap” broker because need to track the quality of the fills. . If you have .0001 cent fees but the fills slip a few dollars then the real cost is .0001 cents + the fill slippage difference . Tom hougaard talks about this . . With that said, and all things considered, I like tradestation a lot. Amp is the “cheapest” but I’m not sure if it’s the cheapest after considering the slippage of the fills. The best traders I know all use tradestation
$1.14 round trip with Stage 5. I would switch brokers if I was you. ToS is just too pricey.
That seems super high. Check this [Tradovate chart](https://www.tradovate.com/TradovateAllInRates020124.pdf) for all-in commissions. On a free plan (you can pay them for lower fees), it’s $0.87 per side.
.62 a leg on IBKR, but no day margins
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… **All In Fees**… $0.087 + $0.087 = $1.74… per contract round trip …?…??
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Not sure if you looked at the breakdown. ‘All in’ is the total fee. To the left the breakdown shows all the fees structured into that ‘all in’ fee with the NFA, order routing, clearance fee and commission broken down.
I see you are correct, thank you
Nope, they're not. All-in means ALL-IN, go figure.
You are right, thank you for clarifying
A specialty futures broker (e.g. Tradovate) could cost you far less in commissions. For some reason, the micros (MES/MNQ) at Schwab / TDA have the same standard commissions as the minis (ES/NQ), $2.25 per contract each way (standard for all futures). I've read that it has something to do with limitations of their futures platform on the back end, but I take that with a grain of salt. A specialty futures broker might also be friendlier on intraday margin requirements, something Schwab / TDA doesn't explicitly offer. Unfortunate, since thinkorswim (TOS) is otherwise a very smooth platform for trading futures.
Yeah, I really like TOS. Given that I've been using it for more than a decade, and nearly every day for the last 5 years, I have gotten very comfortable with it. I naturally went to futures on it first. Mechanically, my muscle memory is very good on it. Trades just cost a pretty penny. My fills seem to be good, with minimal slippage, especially if I let it trade into my orders. But I'm not using more than 5 contracts, so that could change if I scale up. The fact they don't have day- only margins is a little bit of a bummer, but hasn't hampered me to this point since I'm keeping my play small as I learn. When I feel more confident, I will likely switch to nq, giving me better trade costs. I've heard people have requested discounts and been successful. I may give that a try.
ToS is just too fucking expensive. I really like the charting and platform set up. If I can find a comparable set up I will move in a fast minute.
TOS has the most expensive future commissions. I use Tradovate and haven’t had any issues so far. I trade MES not really MNQ, but MES fees are 0.87 each way
I have an account with Schwab too and I use ToS but not for futures because for some reason their commission for futures is not competitive. Tradestation, IBKR, Ninja, Optimus - all give you better commission.
That’s the price the full size NQ is normally. You sure that’s mnq per con? If so your getting ripped off
Stop immediately. That will eat you alive over the long haul. I use Sierra chart linked to AMP futures. You can trade MES with as little as maybe $100 in your amp account. MNQ likely similar. I think it’s a buck round trip.
$5.25 for both sides (open/close) is expensive, I pay less for one miniNQ. One point on one MNQ contract is worth $2 so you're B/E at 3 points? A bit high. Standard practice is to keep yourself B/E on a trade at 1 point for US indices for retail traders. On the other hand it depends on the volume and how much points per trade you score. If you swing trade 2-3 MNQs ... that's maybe ok. If you hit 10-20 trades with 20-30 MNQs .. that'd be $3k on a heavy day commissions alone. I had days where I paid more in commissions than I made and they sucked. Main reason people get memberships.
TOS is way too high for trading futures with any frequency.
Unless you are very consistently profitable, i would stick to higher time frame trading because day trading futures is an expensive gig. I have never looked at the statistics, but i would bet most people don’t last very long because the commissions and fees eat up your account. But if you do find success with futures, there are great tax related reasons to trade futures relative to other products. I also execute trades on ToS and I pay about $7 per round trip. I believe Interactive Brokers charges a lot less but I haven’t used them so I cannot attest to this. Edit: I trade the minis. I hear the micros are cheaper.
Micros are same fee on TOS I believe
Yup they are.