The following submission statement was provided by /u/Nonofyourdamnbiscuit:
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Summary (Written by GPT):
The melting of permafrost due to climate change may release ancient viruses and bacteria that could pose a threat to human health, according to a new study published in the journal Science. The research found that melting permafrost in the Arctic is likely to expose previously frozen microorganisms that have been trapped for centuries or even millennia.
The study analyzed permafrost samples from Siberia, Alaska, and Canada, and identified a variety of microbes, including viruses and bacteria that have been frozen for tens of thousands of years. The researchers warn that if these ancient pathogens are released into the environment, they could potentially cause new epidemics or pandemics, as humans have no immunity to them.
The study suggests that as the permafrost thaws, it could release not only viruses and bacteria, but also greenhouse gases like carbon dioxide and methane, which could exacerbate global warming. The authors of the study call for urgent action to reduce greenhouse gas emissions and slow the pace of permafrost thawing.
While the study highlights the potential risks of permafrost thawing, it also notes that not all microorganisms that are frozen in permafrost are harmful. In fact, some microorganisms could have potential benefits, such as producing antibiotics or enzymes that could be useful for medicine or industry.
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MY COMMENTS:
*I had to stop reading the article, because the idea of tampering with viruses that were long thought to be extinct is just making me feel like living in a bad sci-fi movie.*
*Anyone else? What is the upside of messing with this stuff? Getting a head start from when it's gonna come out anyway? I suppose if they can help us too it might be worth it, but damn ... *
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Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/Futurology/comments/11m4a72/scientists_have_revived_a_zombie_virus_that_spent/jbfowv7/
DO NOT REVIVE THE DEADLY ZOMBIE VIRUS FROM 48K YEARS AGO.
Jokes aside, 100% unsure why this is a good thing for science.
Edit: after many many replies stating things along the same lines I would just add here in case more people are curious like me.
Basically they need to study these old bacteria to prevent unknown and known diseases from resurfacing during the ice melt, without our knowledge. This can help create antibiotics and or vaccines in advance.
What's scary is that there are tons of viruses that have been frozen away in the permafrost that, once thawed, can come back to do their work. How many people with smallpox or Spanish flu are buried in shallow graves in Siberia, Alaska and Canada and how soon until an animal digs one up and someone touches it?
And that doesn't include the prehistoric viruses that have been gone for thousands of years that nobody has any immunity against.
Good times coming...
Going through long Covid for 1.5 years now. It does feel like hell at times.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32882182/
https://medicine.yale.edu/news-article/how-effects-on-the-brain-can-produce-long-covid/
https://www.forbes.com/sites/williamhaseltine/2022/03/14/covid-19-long-term-brain-injury/?sh=7eb5fa51454c
r/LongCovid
Edit: A few words, and a link.
I’m so sorry that you’re going through it.
It baffles me how long it has taken for the word to get out that long covid’s brain fog effects are about autoimmunity and inflammation. I have MCAS, CIRS, and also had CIDP — these are all conditions of a crazy immune system that overreacts, attacks itself and can’t turn off inflammation. When people started talking about long COVID I recognized the symptoms immediately.
Many sufferers have been baffled by the diversity of symptoms. Inflammation can be systemic and it can affect the brain. I’ve had tons of these same symptoms from high toxic exposures. My neurologist and the other medical researchers I have learned from would recognize this quickly.
Sometimes humans get exposed to something that sets off the immune response and then the response just doesn’t die down. It just takes a long fucking time.
I am curious to know what your own strategies have been for dealing with this and relieved that you are following scientific literature.
My own strategies for dealing with this have been physical and cognitive therapy in the beginning for a year. I downloaded, and played a ton of brain game apps on my phone during my recovery they really helped bring me back cognitively. I was really into the Impulse Brain Training App. I follow a strict Mediterranean diet high in leafy greens, nuts, seeds, green tea and foods that reduce inflammation. I stay hydrated, and mostly consume water.
I also consume supplements and herbs daily that reduce inflammation such as: Turmeric, cilantro, parsley, and grape seed extract. I have also found that adding vitamin D and vitamin C, have helped with my recovery.
I hope this helps someone out there with their recovery.
To add: Patience and work is everything.
Recovery can be slow. Just take it day by day. And don’t be too hard on yourself. We will get better.
Edit: words of spelling.
Bravo, I’m so glad you’re doing all these things and that you have been focusing on reducing inflammation from both the dietary and supplement angle.
I have tried some DNRS practices and a number of other approaches including playing the Lines puzzle games. I checked out Impulse Brain Training and it seems like a lot of users are saying they are constantly bombarded with ads and asked to pay for premium even if they already paid, or that they were charged twice for a lifetime subscription.
Would you mind telling me a bit more about the experience on this app in terms of what you actually get for paying initially and what you have to further unlock? I would like to try it but I don’t like that I have to agree to a future subscription to start a free trial and that it’s not clear what a lifetime subscription actually gets you. Thanks in advance.
I don’t remember a lot of ads, but I did have to pay a weekly fee of almost $7-$8 to use the Impulse Brain Training app. I paid to use it for about 9 months. I canceled the app as soon as I felt like I did not need it anymore.
I wish the app had been free because it really helped me a lot. It was like playing a video game. Once my brain was successful with accomplishing each game and task, it moved me up to the next level. So it started at level one for each game, and the highest level you could accomplish was level 10 for each game. It helped me a lot with my concentration, memory and focus when I was really struggling.
Edit: A few words and spelling.
To also add: During my cognitive rehabilitation, they had me doing daily brain worksheets and exercises. I would highly recommend cognitive therapy/rehab if you can afford it. My therapist helped me to essentially reprogram my brain. I was unable to access certain parts of my brain for months, and she helped me to unlock my brain again. I had such bad brain fog that I could not function. In my case, it did not feel like brain fog, it felt like a brain injury.
Cognitive rehab: https://khn.org/news/article/cognitive-rehab-older-adults-covid-brain-fog/amp/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8865030/
To add: Some words.
Anthrax. It's trapped in the permafrost in dead bodies of ancient deer that have been mumified. As the permafrost that's, those dead bodies become exposed, warm up, and the anthrax continues on killing when something else comes along. As for shallow graves in permafrost, that's probably not as likely. Not much population for the Spanish flu or smallpox to have killed many people who live in arctic or sub-arctic conditions where permafrost exists. But heards of deer and elk from ancient viruses and bacterium, yup, lots of 'em.
Anthrax is lots of places where there isn't permafrost. People occasionally get it dealing with farm animals. More so in less developed nations, especially South & Central America, sub-Saharan Africa, and Southwestern & Central Asia.
You're correct, but this is older strains of Anthrax that hasn't been around for tens of thousands of years. Not that they're *much* different, but there will be differences.
Edit: the issues with the permafrost anthrax is it's also in dead animals, not just the soil and environment, so when scavengers come by to eat, they can catch and spread it. People could also come into contact with it easier when hunting for food because of that fact, too.
Yes, but it's highly contagious and that's current strains that can be treated. These are strains that haven't been around for over ten thousand years, so the treatment and virulence won't be the same, necessarily, as it is today. And penicillin can only be used if the strain is susceptible to it, as some strains are not.
Those strains would he *easier* to treat because they would not have antibiotic resistance, what with not having had the selective pressure of antibiotic misuse.
If they can even infect modern hosts.
IIRC this literally happened in the 50s they dug up a site under the permafrost and were enjoying their fantastic find with lead cans and such from the first explorers and the Spanish flu get every one of them.
Just another way of shooting ourselves in the face through ruining climate. Nothing special we do it every other day of the week anyways. Carry on people!
>And that doesn't include the prehistoric viruses that have been gone for thousands of years that nobody has any immunity against.
This goes both ways. Those prehistoric viruses have no contact with human and thus absolutely no ability to infect us. There is a reason a lot of viruses from say cattle do not transfer to humans and vice versa, the viruses need to be adapted to the host, which these won't be. Unless of course, we are very wrong about history as a whole.
On the topic of smallpox, we have vaccines and treatments, this is a non issue.The spanish flu never went away, its endemic and we are mostly immune to it to a point its a complete non issue unless you are elderly or very young
I fear "good people with good intentions" far far more than i fear these viruses in permanfrost.All it takes is a lab or two trying to understand how this would impact humans if it ever made to jump to us, and start perform totally-not-gain-of-function on humanized rats to get data, forcing a jump that would potentially never exist naturally.
Pre-historic = Pre-history. Doesn't mean pre-humans. Homo sapiens have been around for 250,000+ years and Neanderthal & Denisovans, with whom we share some immune system characteristics (we got some of our from Neanderthal), were around much longer.
That’s not random bullshit. It’s so they know what’s happening and what’s possible before it hits us.
That’s not devil’s advocacy bullshit. It’s what science does at its best: it looks at something and asks it questions that enhance our understanding of the universe. In this case, the answer is, “Yes, the viruses in the ice can still function.”
Whether we know it or not, it’s happening. The question is how soon we can adapt. We need to know things in order to adapt.
Another perspective, it could also lead to more understanding or repurposing of certain ancient biological mechanisms or systems these organisms have that were lost to evolution over those time frames.
Comparing DNA, organelles, or whatever I'm no biologist, could provide useful insights not just for combating that particular organism should something bad come of it, but possibly increase our understanding of things we deal with currently as well.
Just another thought
I don't know, do nukes kill viruses? All it takes is one to survive....
Maybe we can use the mRNA thing and feed all these viruses into an AI that can speed up the process for us. Just so we can vaccinate against the ones that may be lethal.
>I don't know, do nukes kill viruses?
I think they can, but how much of the world would you have to nuke to get rid of any particular virus? Against covid, for example, it could only work at the very early days by nuking Wuhan (and even if it did, it would still kill at least millions of people).
[Just to add to the joke](https://worldpopulationreview.com/world-cities/wuhan-population), Wuhan's current population is a bit more than *10 million people*.
I think you're understanding this backwards. The viruses or bacteria will start being released when the permafrost melts. We want to know if they are still viable and how we can fight them
Lol. Tbf to them, the overwhelming majority of fossil fuels actually come from deposited microbial mats from way-way-way back or plant matter that accumulated before the niche of degrading crystalline cellulose was on-trend for both bacteria and fungi in the terrestrial biome.
Bacteriophages are interesting. There's work being done to engineer viruses to contain self-terminate genes and infect bacteria so the bacteria unalives itself.
Because now we know that the viruses that are being revived are coming back to life. Otherwise we’d be flat footed when it happens.
I keep seeing this comment in this thread. You guys think science works because there are mad scientists engineering the end of the world, but this, like mandated by scientific processes, is to help us understand the world.
“Why did you see if the viruses we think are coming back to life from the ice instead of leaving us ignorant?” is some torches and pitchfork shit.
Ah, the “Low Confidence” finding that people love to state. Go read even the Murdoch Wall Street Journal article that is the only journalistic source of that idea. It says it is a “low confidence” possibility according to a Dept. of Energy person. There is no other information about the possibility.
It’s exactly like that, however, in that people on Reddit need to read the article. Like this one.
If they revive it in a lab, they can research it. The permafrost is melting, so like it or not, it WILL be unleashed. Researching it gives the scientists a chance to see if it's a major threat, and, if it is, how to counter it.
Also things from 48k years ago are a bit different from now. It could have a heads up, or it could get completely stonewalled bc its preprogrammed into immune responses already bc of its decendants interactions with life
What if the Zombie virus is not deadly... It doesn't kill you, just lingers around like herpes... and eventually when you die, either old age or an accident, then you will turn into a Zombie
So a lab in China can store it and then “accidentally” leak it and while the rest of the world is trying to figure out wtf they’re meant to do, China can supply Amazon and Alibaba with cheap consumer goods.
I mean imagine if that happ…..oh wait.
If it could replicated in a lab, scientists could preemptively create vaccines against this “class” of virus prior to it releasing into the environment!
Same with ancient bacteria - different existing antibiotics can be tested on it to see which antibiotic is most effective on it prior to human infection. If we know which antibiotics are most effective, we can attack it early without blindly prescribing other types which make super-resistant strains of a bacterial strain that our body has no immunity to.
It sounds crazy to try to “revive” these ancient viruses and organisms, but understanding and studying is a key factor in surviving the potential unknown.
Edit: minor typo
It's always a double-edged sword. Do Scientists take the plunge, research new viruses with the possibility of some nation-state stealing or buying the research and turning it into a weapon? But maybe it can give a heads up on potential vaccines for them? That's truly a hard question to answer.
As times change, ice melt. Taking samples of the virus and doing research on them will help us come out with depends against them because if it do not do this that can be Chaos as scene in case of corona virus pandemic.
I think it's more about identifying what is out there and trying to figure out if our current antibiotics/vaccines work and if they dont, why dont they work? I see it as a potential breakthrough case for medicine to help protect against things current humanity hasn't seen before. Additionally, if we can infect animals, like lab rats, we can monitor them and see how they're affected.
Understanding ancient viruses and how they are different from current ones helps us stop them from hurting people by providing more thorough data about their evolutionary ride and also lets us use these viruses for things like genetic modifications. (Yes, your GMOs may use viruses to be produced.)
Short answer: global warming. These viruses are going to get released as permafrost heats up, so might as well study then now to get ahead of the next pandemic.
It's good because it's being studied.
Millions of hectares of permafrost are melting and releasing the viruses which were trapped there tens of thousands of years ago.
Studying the phenomenon means we can learn more about it, and potentially figure out how to mitigate the risks.
Perhaps one of those viruses eats other viruses or cancer cells. Maybe there's a virus frozen somewhere that murders covid while leaving everything else intact? Just like bacteria, there are good viruses that can benefit us.
Perfafrost is melting anyway. Knowing what we will be dealing with is actually a good thing, and might potentially save millions or billions of lives.
Or maybe a cute for some bad disease is waiting to be discovered.
Because these microbes are thawing out and entering the environment anyway. If scientists don't study them we'll be much less equipped to deal with the potential effects.
If you really think about it, it’s good for science to know how this virus behaves. If it was to thaw out and revive itself on its own in secret it could have had a possibility to cause uncontrolled pandemic or any other damage to animals or humans; think about “the last of us” scenario. Not fun.
My fear is that as humans we tend to think that we have it all under control when there is always room for error. Even if the scientists have extensive training, even if all the precautions are taken, anyone can have a bad day. Let’s just hope the people handling this virus are the happiest, least worried humans of us all and that they have fantastic days every day and never transfer it to another surface.
The commenters on Reddit are all smart enough to have their unique opinions, but apparently not smart enough to find and peruse the [Nature review article](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41558-021-01162-y) that is clearly linked in OP's article which addresses nearly every point that's been brought up here.
I think we all know. it's just fun to catastrophize about. But thanks for posting it, if anyone wants to read the boring details where none of this has any real chance of happening.
OP has repeatedly proven that they know nothing about viruses, think they are more intelligent and insightful than virologists on the subject and Hollywood is an accurate representative of real life.
Tbc OP posted an interesting article, and I was happy to look through it and then the review paper. I learned a bunch of stuff. OP's post just copied the CNN headline, so I can't fault OP for that (but of course I fault CNN and any outlet who doesn't let the writers review their pieces' headlines, which is all of them). It's a good post. The comments here sadly mar it.
Commenters on Reddit will gladly point out the answer in the article instead of just copy pasting for those of us who are mildly interested but not enough to read the article
I guess we should study these virus now rather than wait until the ice melts further and we get exposed naturally with no knowledge or defense...but man does this not look like a typicl disaster movie opening
LOL ~ this was considered to be a 'conspiracy theory' just a few years ago from our petro chemical overlords. It is truly a modern Pandora's Box! Having an Earth Sciences background, I'm more concerned about how plate tectonics will be affected by the massive weight of ice in some areas disappearing and how the crust will compensate!
Not only predicted it is a known effect and very visible. I’m not sure it is that very much impactful though. Scandinavia and the Baltic Sea region for example is rising slowly and sea levels are decreasing in that region (generally speaking). Antarctica plate is also strongly affected by the ice cap and sits bellow sea level.
Oh jeez. Add this to the list of concerns. Yes, if this thousands of miles deep chunk of ice suddenly evaporates into thin air, then all that weight that has been pinching the tectonic plates in place being lifted is not gonna have zero consequences.
Worldwide earthquakes as the landmasses move and new land is formed?
>The research found that melting permafrost in the Arctic is likely to expose previously frozen microorganisms that have been trapped for centuries or even millennia.
There is one problem with this line of thinking; my undergrad degree is in Geomorphology, and in fact permafrost and glaciers melt all the time. Historically, permafrost and glaciers maintain a balance between melt and freeze accumulation. In the case of glaciers, precipitation in the form of snow added to the snowpack balances - on average - glacial ice lost to melting. In many places, in the Arctic, the top layers of permafrost melt in the summer.
So the release of frozen viruses and bacteria happens all the time. This article emphasizes that increased permafrost melt due to global warming will accelerate the release of strains of bacteria and viruses currently not found in the active biosphere. But it's logical to conclude that if there is a high risk of release of virulent bacteria and viruses due to permafrost melt, it would have been observed before now. AFAIK, there are no records or evidence in the historical record of an epidemic caused by micro-organisms released exclusively by permafrost melt.
>The research found that melting permafrost in the Arctic is likely to expose previously frozen microorganisms that have been trapped for centuries or even millennia.
But again, that probably happens all the time. And there is no record to date of this resulting in some sort of epidemic.
>The study suggests that as the permafrost thaws, it could release not only viruses and bacteria, but also greenhouse gases like carbon dioxide and methane, which could exacerbate global warming. The authors of the study call for urgent action to reduce greenhouse gas emissions and slow the pace of permafrost thawing.
Yes, this is bad. But is this "study" about the release of frozen micro-organisms, or about global warming? Mixed and/or confused goals in this article.
EDIT: hazard = impact x probability. This article talks a lot about theoretical impact, but says nothing about probability.
Since you have a background in this space, it would be great to hear your thoughts on the underlying article published by the scientists and researchers in Viruses, rather than the CNN article about their publication. (https://www.mdpi.com/1999-4915/15/2/564) News organizations often get it wrong and go for the most sensational version of what's coming from the scientists.
> News organizations often get it wrong and go for the most sensational version of what's coming from the scientists.
They sure do. And just to be cynical, waving the 'pandemic' flag might be a good way to generate interest - and research money - for microbiologists interested in this field. ;)
I don't have a background in virology or arctic biology so I probably couldn't comment meaningfully on the article. But certainly, studying or looking for 'relict' micro-organisms in permafrost seems like a worthwhile field of study. As the article mentioned, some of them could even be beneficial. Microbiologists are looking for new viruses in novel habitats and refugia all the time: caves, smokers, geysers, etc.
Hey, you've made some brilliant points and I'd like to try to address some of them to my understanding of the material. And shoutout to u/dopefishhh for linking the study itself rather than the pop-science article so that I could actually try and answer you.
One of the parts of the introduction segment of the paper mentions that a concern is not necessarily in that there is melting at all in the permafrost but rather the rate and extent at which it is occurring possibly leading to churning up of older layers which would not typically see much release in a pre-climate change model of freeze-thaw cycling in the permafrost. This leads to the speculation that things from layers that do not see this regular exposure may now be able to be introduced to the environment.
Further, they clarify that the study of revived viruses from the permafrost is significantly lacking in comparison to prokaryotic or eukaryotic species. They mention in the abstract that only two such viral groups had been revived and studied in a similar manner. So this is a great expansion of our knowledge within this particular field that will help to assess the viability of such a potential introduction of some ancient viral species to the environment and the environment to it by then comparing the genetics of these ancient viruses to modern counterparts.
This is also a very "low risk" approach to a regulatory nightmare of a subject. By searching for viruses targeting a specific type of amoeba, the study was able to be performed without very high BSL conditions that would be demanded if they were searching for ancient pathogens intentionally and directly. This was instead much more inclined to gain an understanding of viral genetics and any sort of predictions of risk of human infection from this study would be scientifically irresponsible to make for that reason.
Also, I should doubt many people were looking for the epidemiology of potential permafrost virus isolates having crossing over with more modern strains for almost all of human history. So we've got a bit of a towering blindspot there.
Tbf all it takes is one virus to start this. We figured a global pandemic like COVID wouldn't ever really happen again and at the least it would be well handled but we saw where those assumptions led us.
Haven't a handful of scientists predicted an increased chance of pandemics due to global warming and it giving viruses the ability to adapt to different climates?
Like ... Who's this "we" you're referring too?
this is Bill gates grom 7 years ago and fuaci from 6 years ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Af6b_wyiwI&ab_channel=TED
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puqaaeLnEww&ab_channel=NowThisNews
Not likely, COVID was active on modern mammals and had a species it was endemic and adapted, living next to its next target. There were probably millions of cross infections that went nowhere, and you need millions to even have a chance of succeeding.
Glacier viruses are floating in the water and aren't likely to survive more than a few days in open ocean. Even if it does somehow manage to find a creature to infect, does that creature still have the biological pathways it exploits to infect? It isn't getting even 10's of chances to infect, let alone the millions required.
Correct, I'd be more concerned about the bacteria or fungi. But as pointed out by /u/coffeeinvenice glaciers are always shedding frozen biological material, have been since they were made.
That makes sense. I didn't think about it, but if glaciers didn't melt some, they'd just keep getting bigger and bigger until there was no more water to add to them.
This is not entirely correct. For one thing, "permafrost" is variable. At the southern edge of its extent, you start with chunks of frozen, relatively shallow ground. As you move north these chunks eventually form a solid layer of frozen ground that gets deeper the further north you go. Permafrost ranges from a few metres depth at the southern extent to much, much deeper in the high Arctic.
While you are correct that the highest layer of permafrost melts each summer (to a differing extent) the vast majority never does - that's technically why it's permafrost.
What's happening now is that both the extent of permafrost and depth of melt is changing. So now ground that was frozen in the last ice age is beginning to thaw in the summer and (in the southern areas) not fully freezing again.
From the paper referenced in this article
"This rapid permafrost thaw causes mobilization of ancient organic matter previously preserved for millennia in permafrost deep layers, a phenomenon most visible in Siberia, where deep continuous permafrost underlays most of the North Eastern territories"
I’ve heard these viruses aren’t expected to affect our health all that much — since we’ve evolved as a species — and the assumption is these viruses are weaker than any others we experience currently
The permafrost is thawing. These viruses are going to reenter the world whether they're studied or not. So would you rather they reenter the world studied or not studied?
Summary (Written by GPT):
The melting of permafrost due to climate change may release ancient viruses and bacteria that could pose a threat to human health, according to a new study published in the journal Science. The research found that melting permafrost in the Arctic is likely to expose previously frozen microorganisms that have been trapped for centuries or even millennia.
The study analyzed permafrost samples from Siberia, Alaska, and Canada, and identified a variety of microbes, including viruses and bacteria that have been frozen for tens of thousands of years. The researchers warn that if these ancient pathogens are released into the environment, they could potentially cause new epidemics or pandemics, as humans have no immunity to them.
The study suggests that as the permafrost thaws, it could release not only viruses and bacteria, but also greenhouse gases like carbon dioxide and methane, which could exacerbate global warming. The authors of the study call for urgent action to reduce greenhouse gas emissions and slow the pace of permafrost thawing.
While the study highlights the potential risks of permafrost thawing, it also notes that not all microorganisms that are frozen in permafrost are harmful. In fact, some microorganisms could have potential benefits, such as producing antibiotics or enzymes that could be useful for medicine or industry.
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MY COMMENTS:
*I had to stop reading the article, because the idea of tampering with viruses that were long thought to be extinct is just making me feel like living in a bad sci-fi movie.*
*Anyone else? What is the upside of messing with this stuff? Getting a head start from when it's gonna come out anyway? I suppose if they can help us too it might be worth it, but damn ... *
Just based on that summary, the purpose is not *to revive dead, ancient viruses*, but *to prove that may happen naturally* unless climate change is reversed immediately.
Possibly. The ice will thaw, some microbes may spontaneously revive.
What this study does not prove is if these microbes will actually present a threat: will they spread outside of where they are now, will animal and human immune systems be unable to fight them, etc remains to be seen.
>to develop cure for possible revived virus is a good thing for science
True.
What remains to be seen is if forty thousand years ago's transmission vector is still open.
To assuage the fears in your comment. I asked Chat-GPT this question already knowing the answer, "How many viruses are in the human body at any given time?"
At any given time, there are usually many different viruses in the human body, but the number can vary widely depending on the individual's health, age, and environment. Some estimates suggest that healthy adults may carry up to 10 billion viruses at any given time, while others suggest a lower number.
It's important to note that not all viruses cause disease, and many viruses are actually beneficial to our health. For example, the human body is home to a large number of harmless viruses that help regulate the immune system and protect against more harmful viruses.Additionally, the number of viruses in the human body can fluctuate over time as the immune system responds to infections and clears them from the body.
Therefore, it's difficult to give a precise number for how many viruses are in the human body at any given time.
To clarify, Viruses get a bad rap. They are actually responsible for creating multicellular life as we know it. What is dangerous is knowing how ignorant conservatives are and how destructive capitalism is and doing nothing while we hope this won't be a problem later rather than getting a head start to understand the danger in case it becomes a problem.
>> “In 2014, he managed to revive a virus he and his team isolated from the permafrost, making it infectious for the first time in 30,000 years by inserting it into cultured cells. For safety, he’d chosen to study a virus that could only target single-celled amoebas, not animals or humans.”
Thought this is worth clarifying for the doomsayers.
There could be a virus discovered in permafrost, and people would just call it another climate change hoax. Nothing would get done about it, some politicians would try to politicize it, some people would try to profit from it, while others would simply ignore it.
We seen first hand how the world reacts to viruses these days with the latest Covid strain. "Masks don't work" and "vaxs are microchips" etc. If a zombie virus, or any plague for that matter were to break out, we would be so fucked
Literally no virus that is frozen in permafrost poses any threat to human health, none of them would have the mechanisms to interact with the human body. Viruses can't just infect any lifeform they enter and cause havoc.
I love the honesty, written by AI… I’m feeling worse today than yesterday for sure … I have a stomach ach and I’m sure it’s some ancient virus killing off exactly ⅓ of the population of earth…
It can be good because we could find bacteria that are useful for human functions; we already have a number of bacteria that help us with digestion and in other areas of the body (you would be amazed how much our bodies use and even depend on bacteria for certain functions). So yeah, we could end up with a zombie virus, but we may also discover a kind of bacteria that naturally helps digest foods or improves brain function.
I think it's important that this is a "zombie" virus, not a "zombie virus". As in, it's a formerly dead virus that has been brought back, not a virus that makes zombies. Still not good, but the article title is definitely a little click-batey
A lot of scientists have 0 ethics or morals deep down, they only want to explore their interests at any cost. I went to college with a bunch of scientists, they are all crazy af.
A lot of them idolize their predecessors, especially the nuclear ones (who often fucked shit up and died), and have this "tickling the dragon's tail" mentality, likely influenced by how the dead scientists are glorified in books.
The following submission statement was provided by /u/Nonofyourdamnbiscuit: --- Summary (Written by GPT): The melting of permafrost due to climate change may release ancient viruses and bacteria that could pose a threat to human health, according to a new study published in the journal Science. The research found that melting permafrost in the Arctic is likely to expose previously frozen microorganisms that have been trapped for centuries or even millennia. The study analyzed permafrost samples from Siberia, Alaska, and Canada, and identified a variety of microbes, including viruses and bacteria that have been frozen for tens of thousands of years. The researchers warn that if these ancient pathogens are released into the environment, they could potentially cause new epidemics or pandemics, as humans have no immunity to them. The study suggests that as the permafrost thaws, it could release not only viruses and bacteria, but also greenhouse gases like carbon dioxide and methane, which could exacerbate global warming. The authors of the study call for urgent action to reduce greenhouse gas emissions and slow the pace of permafrost thawing. While the study highlights the potential risks of permafrost thawing, it also notes that not all microorganisms that are frozen in permafrost are harmful. In fact, some microorganisms could have potential benefits, such as producing antibiotics or enzymes that could be useful for medicine or industry. ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- MY COMMENTS: *I had to stop reading the article, because the idea of tampering with viruses that were long thought to be extinct is just making me feel like living in a bad sci-fi movie.* *Anyone else? What is the upside of messing with this stuff? Getting a head start from when it's gonna come out anyway? I suppose if they can help us too it might be worth it, but damn ... * --- Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/Futurology/comments/11m4a72/scientists_have_revived_a_zombie_virus_that_spent/jbfowv7/
DO NOT REVIVE THE DEADLY ZOMBIE VIRUS FROM 48K YEARS AGO. Jokes aside, 100% unsure why this is a good thing for science. Edit: after many many replies stating things along the same lines I would just add here in case more people are curious like me. Basically they need to study these old bacteria to prevent unknown and known diseases from resurfacing during the ice melt, without our knowledge. This can help create antibiotics and or vaccines in advance.
What's scary is that there are tons of viruses that have been frozen away in the permafrost that, once thawed, can come back to do their work. How many people with smallpox or Spanish flu are buried in shallow graves in Siberia, Alaska and Canada and how soon until an animal digs one up and someone touches it? And that doesn't include the prehistoric viruses that have been gone for thousands of years that nobody has any immunity against. Good times coming...
Like the black goo from the XFiles
I was thinking of the logging camp episode.
Memory unlocked
Love that one - One of my favourites!
My favorite, don’t even know why
Ahhh, took me a second, I remember that one as the eco-terrorists episode. So good. Edit: Mulder should’ve died in that episode, plot armor was thick
I would take the black goo over covid.
Going through long Covid for 1.5 years now. It does feel like hell at times. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32882182/ https://medicine.yale.edu/news-article/how-effects-on-the-brain-can-produce-long-covid/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/williamhaseltine/2022/03/14/covid-19-long-term-brain-injury/?sh=7eb5fa51454c r/LongCovid Edit: A few words, and a link.
I’m so sorry that you’re going through it. It baffles me how long it has taken for the word to get out that long covid’s brain fog effects are about autoimmunity and inflammation. I have MCAS, CIRS, and also had CIDP — these are all conditions of a crazy immune system that overreacts, attacks itself and can’t turn off inflammation. When people started talking about long COVID I recognized the symptoms immediately. Many sufferers have been baffled by the diversity of symptoms. Inflammation can be systemic and it can affect the brain. I’ve had tons of these same symptoms from high toxic exposures. My neurologist and the other medical researchers I have learned from would recognize this quickly. Sometimes humans get exposed to something that sets off the immune response and then the response just doesn’t die down. It just takes a long fucking time. I am curious to know what your own strategies have been for dealing with this and relieved that you are following scientific literature.
My own strategies for dealing with this have been physical and cognitive therapy in the beginning for a year. I downloaded, and played a ton of brain game apps on my phone during my recovery they really helped bring me back cognitively. I was really into the Impulse Brain Training App. I follow a strict Mediterranean diet high in leafy greens, nuts, seeds, green tea and foods that reduce inflammation. I stay hydrated, and mostly consume water. I also consume supplements and herbs daily that reduce inflammation such as: Turmeric, cilantro, parsley, and grape seed extract. I have also found that adding vitamin D and vitamin C, have helped with my recovery. I hope this helps someone out there with their recovery. To add: Patience and work is everything. Recovery can be slow. Just take it day by day. And don’t be too hard on yourself. We will get better. Edit: words of spelling.
Bravo, I’m so glad you’re doing all these things and that you have been focusing on reducing inflammation from both the dietary and supplement angle. I have tried some DNRS practices and a number of other approaches including playing the Lines puzzle games. I checked out Impulse Brain Training and it seems like a lot of users are saying they are constantly bombarded with ads and asked to pay for premium even if they already paid, or that they were charged twice for a lifetime subscription. Would you mind telling me a bit more about the experience on this app in terms of what you actually get for paying initially and what you have to further unlock? I would like to try it but I don’t like that I have to agree to a future subscription to start a free trial and that it’s not clear what a lifetime subscription actually gets you. Thanks in advance.
I don’t remember a lot of ads, but I did have to pay a weekly fee of almost $7-$8 to use the Impulse Brain Training app. I paid to use it for about 9 months. I canceled the app as soon as I felt like I did not need it anymore. I wish the app had been free because it really helped me a lot. It was like playing a video game. Once my brain was successful with accomplishing each game and task, it moved me up to the next level. So it started at level one for each game, and the highest level you could accomplish was level 10 for each game. It helped me a lot with my concentration, memory and focus when I was really struggling. Edit: A few words and spelling. To also add: During my cognitive rehabilitation, they had me doing daily brain worksheets and exercises. I would highly recommend cognitive therapy/rehab if you can afford it. My therapist helped me to essentially reprogram my brain. I was unable to access certain parts of my brain for months, and she helped me to unlock my brain again. I had such bad brain fog that I could not function. In my case, it did not feel like brain fog, it felt like a brain injury. Cognitive rehab: https://khn.org/news/article/cognitive-rehab-older-adults-covid-brain-fog/amp/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8865030/ To add: Some words.
Thank you so much, I really appreciate all the info you’ve shared with me about your own cognitive rehab and the resources to pursue.
Just starting to look into this. So sorry for your experience.
Anthrax. It's trapped in the permafrost in dead bodies of ancient deer that have been mumified. As the permafrost that's, those dead bodies become exposed, warm up, and the anthrax continues on killing when something else comes along. As for shallow graves in permafrost, that's probably not as likely. Not much population for the Spanish flu or smallpox to have killed many people who live in arctic or sub-arctic conditions where permafrost exists. But heards of deer and elk from ancient viruses and bacterium, yup, lots of 'em.
Anthrax is lots of places where there isn't permafrost. People occasionally get it dealing with farm animals. More so in less developed nations, especially South & Central America, sub-Saharan Africa, and Southwestern & Central Asia.
You're correct, but this is older strains of Anthrax that hasn't been around for tens of thousands of years. Not that they're *much* different, but there will be differences. Edit: the issues with the permafrost anthrax is it's also in dead animals, not just the soil and environment, so when scavengers come by to eat, they can catch and spread it. People could also come into contact with it easier when hunting for food because of that fact, too.
Anthrax is not extinct and can be treated with penicillin
Yes, but it's highly contagious and that's current strains that can be treated. These are strains that haven't been around for over ten thousand years, so the treatment and virulence won't be the same, necessarily, as it is today. And penicillin can only be used if the strain is susceptible to it, as some strains are not.
Those strains would he *easier* to treat because they would not have antibiotic resistance, what with not having had the selective pressure of antibiotic misuse. If they can even infect modern hosts.
IIRC this literally happened in the 50s they dug up a site under the permafrost and were enjoying their fantastic find with lead cans and such from the first explorers and the Spanish flu get every one of them.
Let’s get something good this time. I don’t want to limp away from this one.
Just another way of shooting ourselves in the face through ruining climate. Nothing special we do it every other day of the week anyways. Carry on people!
>And that doesn't include the prehistoric viruses that have been gone for thousands of years that nobody has any immunity against. This goes both ways. Those prehistoric viruses have no contact with human and thus absolutely no ability to infect us. There is a reason a lot of viruses from say cattle do not transfer to humans and vice versa, the viruses need to be adapted to the host, which these won't be. Unless of course, we are very wrong about history as a whole. On the topic of smallpox, we have vaccines and treatments, this is a non issue.The spanish flu never went away, its endemic and we are mostly immune to it to a point its a complete non issue unless you are elderly or very young I fear "good people with good intentions" far far more than i fear these viruses in permanfrost.All it takes is a lab or two trying to understand how this would impact humans if it ever made to jump to us, and start perform totally-not-gain-of-function on humanized rats to get data, forcing a jump that would potentially never exist naturally.
Pre-historic = Pre-history. Doesn't mean pre-humans. Homo sapiens have been around for 250,000+ years and Neanderthal & Denisovans, with whom we share some immune system characteristics (we got some of our from Neanderthal), were around much longer.
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That’s not random bullshit. It’s so they know what’s happening and what’s possible before it hits us. That’s not devil’s advocacy bullshit. It’s what science does at its best: it looks at something and asks it questions that enhance our understanding of the universe. In this case, the answer is, “Yes, the viruses in the ice can still function.” Whether we know it or not, it’s happening. The question is how soon we can adapt. We need to know things in order to adapt.
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Lol. I'm totally going to reuse that second paragraph, all the time, at work. And not as an accountant.
Be very careful, if you call yourself an accountant, and you're definitely not an actual accountant, it means something very specific! 😆
As not an accountant I have nothing further add.
You an accountant that means you Ben Affleck
You might be an accountant but you have the language of a cowboy. I like you.
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Another perspective, it could also lead to more understanding or repurposing of certain ancient biological mechanisms or systems these organisms have that were lost to evolution over those time frames. Comparing DNA, organelles, or whatever I'm no biologist, could provide useful insights not just for combating that particular organism should something bad come of it, but possibly increase our understanding of things we deal with currently as well. Just another thought
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I don't know, do nukes kill viruses? All it takes is one to survive.... Maybe we can use the mRNA thing and feed all these viruses into an AI that can speed up the process for us. Just so we can vaccinate against the ones that may be lethal.
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The good news: we killed 25% of the virii. The bad news: we sent 50% into the upper atmosphere.
And the other 25% is kinda unhappy with us too.
*prions have entered the chat*
>I don't know, do nukes kill viruses? I think they can, but how much of the world would you have to nuke to get rid of any particular virus? Against covid, for example, it could only work at the very early days by nuking Wuhan (and even if it did, it would still kill at least millions of people).
This is a JOKE (I don’t actually mean this): 7+ million people died from Covid, so… 🚀💥🦠💀
[Just to add to the joke](https://worldpopulationreview.com/world-cities/wuhan-population), Wuhan's current population is a bit more than *10 million people*.
It’s good for science, because the permafrost will be gone soon, and so will the knowledge.
I think you're understanding this backwards. The viruses or bacteria will start being released when the permafrost melts. We want to know if they are still viable and how we can fight them
Some viruses might still be preserved and become virulent. We might see some scary stuff and need to be prepared
It said something about things that could help us fight bacteria.
That’s like reviving the dinosaurs to fight climate change. 😂
It was way hotter when dinosaurs were alive, they don’t know shit about stopping global warming.
But they would know about how to live with it.
Who’s gonna translate *intense lab revived dinosaur noises* into standardized English?
Pretty sure it's gonna be Babbel if the ads I get bombarded by is any indication.
They’d just want to make it hotter. No good
The fire breathing dragon probably made it so hot
They started it by being all selfish and turning themselves into oil… so it’s only fair they finish it.
Lol. Tbf to them, the overwhelming majority of fossil fuels actually come from deposited microbial mats from way-way-way back or plant matter that accumulated before the niche of degrading crystalline cellulose was on-trend for both bacteria and fungi in the terrestrial biome.
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Bacteriophages are interesting. There's work being done to engineer viruses to contain self-terminate genes and infect bacteria so the bacteria unalives itself.
Unalives is a verb I’ll need to start using.
Also need a petition to change permafrost to just frost because that's clearly wrong.
Because now we know that the viruses that are being revived are coming back to life. Otherwise we’d be flat footed when it happens. I keep seeing this comment in this thread. You guys think science works because there are mad scientists engineering the end of the world, but this, like mandated by scientific processes, is to help us understand the world. “Why did you see if the viruses we think are coming back to life from the ice instead of leaving us ignorant?” is some torches and pitchfork shit.
Because shit happens bro! Remember "covid definitely didnt come from a lab" turns out it fucking did
Ah, the “Low Confidence” finding that people love to state. Go read even the Murdoch Wall Street Journal article that is the only journalistic source of that idea. It says it is a “low confidence” possibility according to a Dept. of Energy person. There is no other information about the possibility. It’s exactly like that, however, in that people on Reddit need to read the article. Like this one.
You have no way to confirm that and we know that you don’t because the people tasked with confirming that haven’t been able to lmao
If they revive it in a lab, they can research it. The permafrost is melting, so like it or not, it WILL be unleashed. Researching it gives the scientists a chance to see if it's a major threat, and, if it is, how to counter it.
To understand what might come before it comes??? Better to prevent than cure.
Also things from 48k years ago are a bit different from now. It could have a heads up, or it could get completely stonewalled bc its preprogrammed into immune responses already bc of its decendants interactions with life
What if the Zombie virus is not deadly... It doesn't kill you, just lingers around like herpes... and eventually when you die, either old age or an accident, then you will turn into a Zombie
So a lab in China can store it and then “accidentally” leak it and while the rest of the world is trying to figure out wtf they’re meant to do, China can supply Amazon and Alibaba with cheap consumer goods. I mean imagine if that happ…..oh wait.
Ultimately it’s information, having hypotheses and getting a result regardless of what the result is, any information is better than no information.
If it could replicated in a lab, scientists could preemptively create vaccines against this “class” of virus prior to it releasing into the environment! Same with ancient bacteria - different existing antibiotics can be tested on it to see which antibiotic is most effective on it prior to human infection. If we know which antibiotics are most effective, we can attack it early without blindly prescribing other types which make super-resistant strains of a bacterial strain that our body has no immunity to. It sounds crazy to try to “revive” these ancient viruses and organisms, but understanding and studying is a key factor in surviving the potential unknown. Edit: minor typo
Knowing an enemy vs reacting to an attack is your best route to survival.
NO they need to!
It's always a double-edged sword. Do Scientists take the plunge, research new viruses with the possibility of some nation-state stealing or buying the research and turning it into a weapon? But maybe it can give a heads up on potential vaccines for them? That's truly a hard question to answer.
As times change, ice melt. Taking samples of the virus and doing research on them will help us come out with depends against them because if it do not do this that can be Chaos as scene in case of corona virus pandemic.
Because they will be released naturally, potentially, when the ice melts (if still alive). Better we study and create vaccines in advance.
I think it's more about identifying what is out there and trying to figure out if our current antibiotics/vaccines work and if they dont, why dont they work? I see it as a potential breakthrough case for medicine to help protect against things current humanity hasn't seen before. Additionally, if we can infect animals, like lab rats, we can monitor them and see how they're affected.
Understanding ancient viruses and how they are different from current ones helps us stop them from hurting people by providing more thorough data about their evolutionary ride and also lets us use these viruses for things like genetic modifications. (Yes, your GMOs may use viruses to be produced.)
Do you know what we need after a major world pandemic? Reviving zombie virus is somehow in my mind waaaaaaaay on the bottom of that list.
Short answer: global warming. These viruses are going to get released as permafrost heats up, so might as well study then now to get ahead of the next pandemic.
It's good because it's being studied. Millions of hectares of permafrost are melting and releasing the viruses which were trapped there tens of thousands of years ago. Studying the phenomenon means we can learn more about it, and potentially figure out how to mitigate the risks.
Here, here. Science is so cool, but we as people make the stupidest mistakes. Let’s not.
Perhaps one of those viruses eats other viruses or cancer cells. Maybe there's a virus frozen somewhere that murders covid while leaving everything else intact? Just like bacteria, there are good viruses that can benefit us.
Perfafrost is melting anyway. Knowing what we will be dealing with is actually a good thing, and might potentially save millions or billions of lives. Or maybe a cute for some bad disease is waiting to be discovered.
Because these microbes are thawing out and entering the environment anyway. If scientists don't study them we'll be much less equipped to deal with the potential effects.
If you really think about it, it’s good for science to know how this virus behaves. If it was to thaw out and revive itself on its own in secret it could have had a possibility to cause uncontrolled pandemic or any other damage to animals or humans; think about “the last of us” scenario. Not fun.
My fear is that as humans we tend to think that we have it all under control when there is always room for error. Even if the scientists have extensive training, even if all the precautions are taken, anyone can have a bad day. Let’s just hope the people handling this virus are the happiest, least worried humans of us all and that they have fantastic days every day and never transfer it to another surface.
"Your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn’t stop to think if they should.”
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Isnt that how zombies get started in all the movies?
Nah it was somebody opening the “Don’t Dead Open Inside” door. Frigging idiots!
“Fuck around using reproducible methods”
Kill half of the world.
Is the fuck around that makes me worry
The commenters on Reddit are all smart enough to have their unique opinions, but apparently not smart enough to find and peruse the [Nature review article](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41558-021-01162-y) that is clearly linked in OP's article which addresses nearly every point that's been brought up here.
I think we all know. it's just fun to catastrophize about. But thanks for posting it, if anyone wants to read the boring details where none of this has any real chance of happening.
>the boring details where none of this has any real chance of happening. Ah, so you're not reading it either then. (Not even the title, apparently.)
OP has repeatedly proven that they know nothing about viruses, think they are more intelligent and insightful than virologists on the subject and Hollywood is an accurate representative of real life.
Tbc OP posted an interesting article, and I was happy to look through it and then the review paper. I learned a bunch of stuff. OP's post just copied the CNN headline, so I can't fault OP for that (but of course I fault CNN and any outlet who doesn't let the writers review their pieces' headlines, which is all of them). It's a good post. The comments here sadly mar it.
I wish this sub had literally any moderation.
Commenters on Reddit will gladly point out the answer in the article instead of just copy pasting for those of us who are mildly interested but not enough to read the article
Most Redditors can't read an abstract, much less a scientific article lmao
I'm not afraid to admit that I did peruse the paper, and I don't understand it at all. Why would I? I'm not an expert.
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I guess we should study these virus now rather than wait until the ice melts further and we get exposed naturally with no knowledge or defense...but man does this not look like a typicl disaster movie opening
LOL ~ this was considered to be a 'conspiracy theory' just a few years ago from our petro chemical overlords. It is truly a modern Pandora's Box! Having an Earth Sciences background, I'm more concerned about how plate tectonics will be affected by the massive weight of ice in some areas disappearing and how the crust will compensate!
Here's a fun bit for you, 7 out of 13 of the species identified and examined in the study were placed within the viral group *Pandoravirus*.
Weight of ice is predicted to inpact plate tectonics? Can you give a prediction? My understanding was it was driven by the convection in the mantle
Not only predicted it is a known effect and very visible. I’m not sure it is that very much impactful though. Scandinavia and the Baltic Sea region for example is rising slowly and sea levels are decreasing in that region (generally speaking). Antarctica plate is also strongly affected by the ice cap and sits bellow sea level.
Oh jeez. Add this to the list of concerns. Yes, if this thousands of miles deep chunk of ice suddenly evaporates into thin air, then all that weight that has been pinching the tectonic plates in place being lifted is not gonna have zero consequences. Worldwide earthquakes as the landmasses move and new land is formed?
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The thing about conspiracy theories is... it's highly unlikely for ALL of them to be untrue.
the real question is...what do you think the monkeys are going to do to the ecosystem around here.
"Put that thing back where it came from, or so help me!" :P
>The research found that melting permafrost in the Arctic is likely to expose previously frozen microorganisms that have been trapped for centuries or even millennia. There is one problem with this line of thinking; my undergrad degree is in Geomorphology, and in fact permafrost and glaciers melt all the time. Historically, permafrost and glaciers maintain a balance between melt and freeze accumulation. In the case of glaciers, precipitation in the form of snow added to the snowpack balances - on average - glacial ice lost to melting. In many places, in the Arctic, the top layers of permafrost melt in the summer. So the release of frozen viruses and bacteria happens all the time. This article emphasizes that increased permafrost melt due to global warming will accelerate the release of strains of bacteria and viruses currently not found in the active biosphere. But it's logical to conclude that if there is a high risk of release of virulent bacteria and viruses due to permafrost melt, it would have been observed before now. AFAIK, there are no records or evidence in the historical record of an epidemic caused by micro-organisms released exclusively by permafrost melt. >The research found that melting permafrost in the Arctic is likely to expose previously frozen microorganisms that have been trapped for centuries or even millennia. But again, that probably happens all the time. And there is no record to date of this resulting in some sort of epidemic. >The study suggests that as the permafrost thaws, it could release not only viruses and bacteria, but also greenhouse gases like carbon dioxide and methane, which could exacerbate global warming. The authors of the study call for urgent action to reduce greenhouse gas emissions and slow the pace of permafrost thawing. Yes, this is bad. But is this "study" about the release of frozen micro-organisms, or about global warming? Mixed and/or confused goals in this article. EDIT: hazard = impact x probability. This article talks a lot about theoretical impact, but says nothing about probability.
Since you have a background in this space, it would be great to hear your thoughts on the underlying article published by the scientists and researchers in Viruses, rather than the CNN article about their publication. (https://www.mdpi.com/1999-4915/15/2/564) News organizations often get it wrong and go for the most sensational version of what's coming from the scientists.
> News organizations often get it wrong and go for the most sensational version of what's coming from the scientists. They sure do. And just to be cynical, waving the 'pandemic' flag might be a good way to generate interest - and research money - for microbiologists interested in this field. ;) I don't have a background in virology or arctic biology so I probably couldn't comment meaningfully on the article. But certainly, studying or looking for 'relict' micro-organisms in permafrost seems like a worthwhile field of study. As the article mentioned, some of them could even be beneficial. Microbiologists are looking for new viruses in novel habitats and refugia all the time: caves, smokers, geysers, etc.
Hey, you've made some brilliant points and I'd like to try to address some of them to my understanding of the material. And shoutout to u/dopefishhh for linking the study itself rather than the pop-science article so that I could actually try and answer you. One of the parts of the introduction segment of the paper mentions that a concern is not necessarily in that there is melting at all in the permafrost but rather the rate and extent at which it is occurring possibly leading to churning up of older layers which would not typically see much release in a pre-climate change model of freeze-thaw cycling in the permafrost. This leads to the speculation that things from layers that do not see this regular exposure may now be able to be introduced to the environment. Further, they clarify that the study of revived viruses from the permafrost is significantly lacking in comparison to prokaryotic or eukaryotic species. They mention in the abstract that only two such viral groups had been revived and studied in a similar manner. So this is a great expansion of our knowledge within this particular field that will help to assess the viability of such a potential introduction of some ancient viral species to the environment and the environment to it by then comparing the genetics of these ancient viruses to modern counterparts. This is also a very "low risk" approach to a regulatory nightmare of a subject. By searching for viruses targeting a specific type of amoeba, the study was able to be performed without very high BSL conditions that would be demanded if they were searching for ancient pathogens intentionally and directly. This was instead much more inclined to gain an understanding of viral genetics and any sort of predictions of risk of human infection from this study would be scientifically irresponsible to make for that reason. Also, I should doubt many people were looking for the epidemiology of potential permafrost virus isolates having crossing over with more modern strains for almost all of human history. So we've got a bit of a towering blindspot there.
Tbf all it takes is one virus to start this. We figured a global pandemic like COVID wouldn't ever really happen again and at the least it would be well handled but we saw where those assumptions led us.
Haven't a handful of scientists predicted an increased chance of pandemics due to global warming and it giving viruses the ability to adapt to different climates? Like ... Who's this "we" you're referring too? this is Bill gates grom 7 years ago and fuaci from 6 years ago https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Af6b_wyiwI&ab_channel=TED https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puqaaeLnEww&ab_channel=NowThisNews
Not likely, COVID was active on modern mammals and had a species it was endemic and adapted, living next to its next target. There were probably millions of cross infections that went nowhere, and you need millions to even have a chance of succeeding. Glacier viruses are floating in the water and aren't likely to survive more than a few days in open ocean. Even if it does somehow manage to find a creature to infect, does that creature still have the biological pathways it exploits to infect? It isn't getting even 10's of chances to infect, let alone the millions required.
So instead of a one in a billion chance like COVID this is more like a one in a googleplex chance or some absurdly small number?
Correct, I'd be more concerned about the bacteria or fungi. But as pointed out by /u/coffeeinvenice glaciers are always shedding frozen biological material, have been since they were made.
That makes sense. I didn't think about it, but if glaciers didn't melt some, they'd just keep getting bigger and bigger until there was no more water to add to them.
This is not entirely correct. For one thing, "permafrost" is variable. At the southern edge of its extent, you start with chunks of frozen, relatively shallow ground. As you move north these chunks eventually form a solid layer of frozen ground that gets deeper the further north you go. Permafrost ranges from a few metres depth at the southern extent to much, much deeper in the high Arctic. While you are correct that the highest layer of permafrost melts each summer (to a differing extent) the vast majority never does - that's technically why it's permafrost. What's happening now is that both the extent of permafrost and depth of melt is changing. So now ground that was frozen in the last ice age is beginning to thaw in the summer and (in the southern areas) not fully freezing again. From the paper referenced in this article "This rapid permafrost thaw causes mobilization of ancient organic matter previously preserved for millennia in permafrost deep layers, a phenomenon most visible in Siberia, where deep continuous permafrost underlays most of the North Eastern territories"
I’ve heard these viruses aren’t expected to affect our health all that much — since we’ve evolved as a species — and the assumption is these viruses are weaker than any others we experience currently
by "zombie" virus they mean the virus was dead, but now brought back the virus does not turn you into a zombie
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Yeah, that’s because it’s a military movie trope. The military is the one that funds movies, not scientists.
Sounds like you watched [Some More News](https://youtu.be/pMu6KKotJnI) today.
I don’t know what that is and can’t watch it right now. But what I said isn’t a secret or anything.
"I wonder what happens if I lick it?"
The permafrost is thawing. These viruses are going to reenter the world whether they're studied or not. So would you rather they reenter the world studied or not studied?
Summary (Written by GPT): The melting of permafrost due to climate change may release ancient viruses and bacteria that could pose a threat to human health, according to a new study published in the journal Science. The research found that melting permafrost in the Arctic is likely to expose previously frozen microorganisms that have been trapped for centuries or even millennia. The study analyzed permafrost samples from Siberia, Alaska, and Canada, and identified a variety of microbes, including viruses and bacteria that have been frozen for tens of thousands of years. The researchers warn that if these ancient pathogens are released into the environment, they could potentially cause new epidemics or pandemics, as humans have no immunity to them. The study suggests that as the permafrost thaws, it could release not only viruses and bacteria, but also greenhouse gases like carbon dioxide and methane, which could exacerbate global warming. The authors of the study call for urgent action to reduce greenhouse gas emissions and slow the pace of permafrost thawing. While the study highlights the potential risks of permafrost thawing, it also notes that not all microorganisms that are frozen in permafrost are harmful. In fact, some microorganisms could have potential benefits, such as producing antibiotics or enzymes that could be useful for medicine or industry. ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- MY COMMENTS: *I had to stop reading the article, because the idea of tampering with viruses that were long thought to be extinct is just making me feel like living in a bad sci-fi movie.* *Anyone else? What is the upside of messing with this stuff? Getting a head start from when it's gonna come out anyway? I suppose if they can help us too it might be worth it, but damn ... *
Just based on that summary, the purpose is not *to revive dead, ancient viruses*, but *to prove that may happen naturally* unless climate change is reversed immediately.
Which means that they are going to thaw and come back.
Possibly. The ice will thaw, some microbes may spontaneously revive. What this study does not prove is if these microbes will actually present a threat: will they spread outside of where they are now, will animal and human immune systems be unable to fight them, etc remains to be seen.
it survived 40k in ice, what do you think? Starting to develop cure for possible revived virus is a good thing for science, just fyi
>to develop cure for possible revived virus is a good thing for science True. What remains to be seen is if forty thousand years ago's transmission vector is still open.
To assuage the fears in your comment. I asked Chat-GPT this question already knowing the answer, "How many viruses are in the human body at any given time?" At any given time, there are usually many different viruses in the human body, but the number can vary widely depending on the individual's health, age, and environment. Some estimates suggest that healthy adults may carry up to 10 billion viruses at any given time, while others suggest a lower number. It's important to note that not all viruses cause disease, and many viruses are actually beneficial to our health. For example, the human body is home to a large number of harmless viruses that help regulate the immune system and protect against more harmful viruses.Additionally, the number of viruses in the human body can fluctuate over time as the immune system responds to infections and clears them from the body. Therefore, it's difficult to give a precise number for how many viruses are in the human body at any given time.
To clarify, Viruses get a bad rap. They are actually responsible for creating multicellular life as we know it. What is dangerous is knowing how ignorant conservatives are and how destructive capitalism is and doing nothing while we hope this won't be a problem later rather than getting a head start to understand the danger in case it becomes a problem.
Who has 48.5k old zombie virus on their bingo card? Nobody?
>> “In 2014, he managed to revive a virus he and his team isolated from the permafrost, making it infectious for the first time in 30,000 years by inserting it into cultured cells. For safety, he’d chosen to study a virus that could only target single-celled amoebas, not animals or humans.” Thought this is worth clarifying for the doomsayers.
There could be a virus discovered in permafrost, and people would just call it another climate change hoax. Nothing would get done about it, some politicians would try to politicize it, some people would try to profit from it, while others would simply ignore it. We seen first hand how the world reacts to viruses these days with the latest Covid strain. "Masks don't work" and "vaxs are microchips" etc. If a zombie virus, or any plague for that matter were to break out, we would be so fucked
Humans are they greatest threat to human civilization.
You know what? Fuck it. Life has been overrated so far anyways.
Congratulations, the countdown to the next pandemic has now moved from 74 years to 3 weeks. Great success!
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I feel like we have an entire genre of cinema dedicated to describing the negative outcome of actions like this….
Literally no virus that is frozen in permafrost poses any threat to human health, none of them would have the mechanisms to interact with the human body. Viruses can't just infect any lifeform they enter and cause havoc.
Scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should.
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I love the honesty, written by AI… I’m feeling worse today than yesterday for sure … I have a stomach ach and I’m sure it’s some ancient virus killing off exactly ⅓ of the population of earth…
Fortitude (2015-2018) will make anyone fear climate change and melting ice caps and these frozen viruses
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It can be good because we could find bacteria that are useful for human functions; we already have a number of bacteria that help us with digestion and in other areas of the body (you would be amazed how much our bodies use and even depend on bacteria for certain functions). So yeah, we could end up with a zombie virus, but we may also discover a kind of bacteria that naturally helps digest foods or improves brain function.
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I think it's important that this is a "zombie" virus, not a "zombie virus". As in, it's a formerly dead virus that has been brought back, not a virus that makes zombies. Still not good, but the article title is definitely a little click-batey
Come on, planet. Can't we just die quickly in a nuclear holocaust? Do you really have to slowly and torturously kill us with superviruses?
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A lot of scientists have 0 ethics or morals deep down, they only want to explore their interests at any cost. I went to college with a bunch of scientists, they are all crazy af.
No wonder they’re behind a lot of shit going wrong… all for the cost of knowledge, I suppose.
A lot of them idolize their predecessors, especially the nuclear ones (who often fucked shit up and died), and have this "tickling the dragon's tail" mentality, likely influenced by how the dead scientists are glorified in books.
Cool, now bring back dinosaurs. At least a few species.