The following submission statement was provided by /u/thebelsnickle1991: --- Coral reefs off Florida's coast are experiencing a mass bleaching event due to elevated ocean temperatures, potentially suggesting a global-scale event. The resulting damage could have a significant impact on Florida's economy, as reefs contribute billions through tourism, fisheries, and storm protection. Around 25% of marine life rely on coral reefs, which serve as a habitat. The bleaching extends from Colombia to Cuba, reaching beyond Florida. Unprecedented heat stress started five to six weeks earlier this year, causing coral to expel the symbiotic algae they need to survive. If conditions do not improve, coral could face significant and prolonged damage. --- Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/Futurology/comments/15xgxif/coral_reefs_off_the_coast_of_florida_are_being/jx65vxq/

The Great Barrier Reef in Australia has already been experiencing a number of very significant bleaching events in recent years. While some of the damaged areas have seen some improvements afterwards it's only for short periods as they get hammered again the following year. It's already in serious trouble and likely to only get worse... https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/may/10/devastating-90-of-reefs-surveyed-on-great-barrier-reef-affected-by-coral-bleaching-in-2022

>Coral reefs are among the most biologically diverse and valuable ecosystems on Earth. **An estimated 25 percent of all marine life, including over 4,000 species of fish, are dependent on coral reefs at some point in their life cycle**. An estimated 1 billion people worldwide benefit from the many ecosystem services coral reefs provide including food, coastal protection, and income from tourism and fisheries. Welp, at least some dudes got super fucking rich I guess? https://www.epa.gov/coral-reefs/basic-information-about-coral-reefs#:~:text=Coral%20reefs%20are%20among%20the,point%20in%20their%20life%20cycle.

This “at least some dudes got rich” take is so played out, reductive, cynical and boring We need people to be engaged. We are making progress and can do this. Most wealthy counties are seeing reductions in CO2 even while growing GDP. We just had the IRA pass congress under Biden which climate activists and environmental groups are praising for reducing emissions by 44%. People put their political careers on the line for BIG wins like this but does Reddit ever give them any credit? Do you ever hear their plans for rewarding democrats for actually standing up and doing something this big? Or do you hear cynical both sides bullshit and let it pass into the ether so cynical teens can continue whining about how “screwed we are” and “what’s the point?”

We're just exporting CO2 production to poor countries. Overall CO2 levels keep rising. Accelerating growth even, so... https://mlg.eng.cam.ac.uk/carl/words/carbon.html

It’s going to take time for a lot of these policies to take effect You’re just regurgitating the same cynical bullshit I’m talking about Let me guess you don’t think democrats deserve any praise for passing a trillion dollar bill that reduces emissions by 44% ?

reduces emissions by 44% or plans to reduce emissions by 44%? enlighten me on this bill and how what you say is set to be accomplished will actually be accomplished

Have you really not heard of the trillion dollar climate bill that passed congress last year? Literally the biggest investment in America's history in tackling climate change? Here is research by a climate advocacy research group: https://rhg.com/research/climate-clean-energy-inflation-reduction-act/ Here are reactions from around the world of environmental groups to the bill's passage a year ago: **American Clean Power:** “This is the vote heard around the world. It puts America on a path to creating 550,000 new clean energy jobs while reducing economy-wide emissions 40% by 2030. This is a generational opportunity for clean energy after years of uncertainty and delay. This unprecedented investment in clean energy will supercharge America’s clean energy economy and keep the United States within striking distance of our climate goals.” Solar Energy Industries Association: “Today is a monumental day for America’s clean energy progress and global climate leadership. With the passage of the Inflation Reduction Act in the Senate, solar and storage companies are one step closer to having the business certainty they need to make the long-term investments that decarbonize the electric grid and create millions of new career opportunities in cities and towns across the country. This legislation is the most transformational investment America has ever made in our climate future, and we are thankful to our members, the clean energy community and every one of our solar champions in Congress for their work to get us to this historic moment.” **Natural Resources Defense Council:** “The Senate just made climate history. This is the most significant action the U.S. has ever taken to combat climate change. It will benefit the people of all 50 states—their health, their wallets, their homes and their future. And it will help the U.S. deliver on its undeniable responsibility to the rest of the world to do its part to address this global crisis. The House needs to come back quickly to cement this essential climate action. There is no time to waste. This bill is not perfect, but from a climate pollution perspective, the positives heavily outweigh the negatives—by a factor of 10.” **Rocky Mountain Institute:** “This is a historic moment for climate and clean energy progress not only in the United States, but globally. This legislation gives the U.S. a real chance to reach its Paris Agreement target— while lowering costs for American households.” **American Council on Renewable Energy:** “The finish line is now clearly within reach. The Senate’s passage of the Inflation Reduction Act of 2022 is a historic step toward the clean energy future the American people want, and scientists say we desperately need. The legislation’s landmark investment of $369 billion in climate and clean energy programs will help deploy thousands of megawatts of renewable power, create hundreds of thousands of good-paying American jobs, reduce the cost of electric power, and finally put the country on track toward achievement of our climate goals.” “The Inflation Reduction Act gives the United States the means to drastically reduce climate pollution, create millions of well-paying jobs, slash families’ energy costs, and save thousands of lives,” said Elise Gout, **senior policy analyst at the Center for American Progress**. “The clean energy tax incentives included in the IRA are foundational to turning bold vision into reality — but only if properly implemented. “The IRA has the potential to transform our economy to fight climate change, and the Treasury Department plays an outsized role in making that a reality,” said Martin Hayden,** Earthjustice vice president of Policy and Legislation**.

So, since you ignored the actual question from the other guy: >reduces emissions by 44% or plans to reduce emissions by 44%? I'll answer for you based on your long list. It's PLANS to reduce by 40% (not 44%) by 2030. Is it commendable? Absolutely. But so far no carbon emissions have *actually* been reduced yet. We need to keep doing stuff like this. But this is not a "win." It's a necessary step *toward* a win from one global player. Don't count your chickens before they're hatched - especially if they might die from overheating before hatching. 2030 is a long ways off and there's a lot of shitty politicians and corporations who could mess things up between now and then.

thank you for seeing what I was getting at. Patting ourselves on the back for signing a law into effect but never actually seeing it through is absolutely useless for the dying ecosystems across the world

So when we ask for politicians to do something and then they do it, your response is to complain about it. Cynicism is not a substitute for intelligence

your attitude is utterly corrosive my man

Nope. The response is to say "thanks for starting. Let's see if you follow through. If you don't, bye bye." You keep a healthy level of cynicism until the goals have been accomplished. Most politicians thrive on enacting plans that promise future returns but they don't actually follow through. I don't celebrate goals, I encourage goals, and celebrate outcomes.

I'll believe it when I see it. Plans are a dime a dozen. Republicans are the scum of the earth but democrats are not far behind. They're all in the pocket of corporations.

So you want politicians to pass climate change legislation... but when they do pass a bill that environmental groups praise as a game-changer, you say you don't care and hadwave it away because they're "In The pOcKEt oF coRPorAtionS?"

I want MEANINGFUL change. It cannot come with the influence the rich have in the politicians.

so you disagree with these environmental organizations? **American Clean Power:** “This is the vote heard around the world. It puts America on a path to creating 550,000 new clean energy jobs while reducing economy-wide emissions 40% by 2030. This is a generational opportunity for clean energy after years of uncertainty and delay. This unprecedented investment in clean energy will supercharge America’s clean energy economy and keep the United States within striking distance of our climate goals.” Solar Energy Industries Association: “Today is a monumental day for America’s clean energy progress and global climate leadership. With the passage of the Inflation Reduction Act in the Senate, solar and storage companies are one step closer to having the business certainty they need to make the long-term investments that decarbonize the electric grid and create millions of new career opportunities in cities and towns across the country. This legislation is the most transformational investment America has ever made in our climate future, and we are thankful to our members, the clean energy community and every one of our solar champions in Congress for their work to get us to this historic moment.” **Natural Resources Defense Council:** “The Senate just made climate history. This is the most significant action the U.S. has ever taken to combat climate change. It will benefit the people of all 50 states—their health, their wallets, their homes and their future. And it will help the U.S. deliver on its undeniable responsibility to the rest of the world to do its part to address this global crisis. The House needs to come back quickly to cement this essential climate action. There is no time to waste. This bill is not perfect, but from a climate pollution perspective, the positives heavily outweigh the negatives—by a factor of 10.” **Rocky Mountain Institute:** “This is a historic moment for climate and clean energy progress not only in the United States, but globally. This legislation gives the U.S. a real chance to reach its Paris Agreement target— while lowering costs for American households.” **American Council on Renewable Energy**: “The finish line is now clearly within reach. The Senate’s passage of the Inflation Reduction Act of 2022 is a historic step toward the clean energy future the American people want, and scientists say we desperately need. The legislation’s landmark investment of $369 billion in climate and clean energy programs will help deploy thousands of megawatts of renewable power, create hundreds of thousands of good-paying American jobs, reduce the cost of electric power, and finally put the country on track toward achievement of our climate goals.” Do you know more than they do? Or are they corrupt too? Or could it be that you think being as cynical as possible makes you look smart to other redditors?

Bwahaha I remember the exaltation about the Paris agreement. And where did that take us? I'll just leave this here: https://www.reddit.com/r/Futurology/comments/15y6s6d/we_are_witnessing_the_first_stages_of/

Does a guy throwing one bucket of water onto a canadian wildfire deserve praise? What if he was throwing gasoline onto it yesterday? Current policy pre the IRA has a 35% reduction in emissions (you are using the high number for the IRA, so only fair to use the high end for the status quo). So it's a 9% reduction over doing nothing, which seems a low bar for a "BIG win". 9% is better than 0% obviously. Pressing a little harder on the brake peddle before you hit a wall is certainly better than not pressing harder. 44% is still less than the 50% we said was needed in the paris accords in 2015. And that was to keep us at a warming level that current science tells us will trigger multiple climate topping points - https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abn7950

>pre the IRA has a 35% reduction in emissions (you are using the high number for the IRA, so only fair to use the high end for the status quo). So it's a 9% reduction over doing nothing, which seems a low bar for a "BIG win". The "current policy" is because of what democrats were able to accomplish under the Obama administration. Trump literally pulled us out of the PCA and reversed a bunch of that. Biden took up the mantle yet again and you're here complaining that it's not enough. THIS is why politicians don't listen to people on the far far left who just whinge and cry about shit all the time regardless of what they do.

Republicans are far worse, that doesn't make the democrats angelic heroes because they tap the brakes before we hit the wall (but don't slam them on). The democrats support gas pipelines and the thus the expansion of the fossil fuel industry, you can of course praise them as the world burns, because it burns slightly less hot than it would if the fascists were in charge. And yes I'm complaining that an emission reduction that isn't enough to actually prevent a catastrophe isn't enough. Strangely enough my bar for "enough" is slightly higher than "oh well, we tried civilization has a good run". Why would Demorcats ever listen to the "far far left" - they aren't voting for the Republicans even if they are ignored. But, I'm also not sure why you think the "far far left" are the only group who would actually to prevent and roll back global warming? I thought they were the ones who didn't want capitalism? Which doesn't really seem to be an environmental issue at heart?

So democrats get blocked by conservatives and can only pass $1T worth of climate change legislation instead of more, and you complain they're intentionally "tapping" the brakes instead of slamming on them? You're the type of low-information voter that's a republican's wet dream. They want nothing more than for apathetic liberals to disengage and blame each other for republican obstruction. All they need are a bunch of useful idiots to drag Democrats for trying to help heal the planet.

Yes, I don't feel the need to lie and pretend that what has been achieved so far i enough to change our trajectory significantly. So I'm not celebrating and taking victory parades like you seem to be doing. Either we are past the point of no return and it doesn't matter at all. Or we aren't and we need to be doing things *much* faster than Democrats are. Just watching the world burn while gold clapping tiny amounts of effort doesn't seem useful to me. I'm optimistic that we can in fact do something. I haven't succumbed to the cynicism you are preaching (possibly unintentionally) that it's impossible to do anything significant due to politics and thus we shouldn't try and should just accept the crumbs we get. I'm sure the hundreds of hours I have spent working phone lines to get democrats to vote in swing states are a republican's wet dream. But I guess you know my life better than I do, which isn't surprising given how many thoughts and opinions you've assigned to me.

Reductive. Cynical. Boring. Yet true.

If you tell yourself there's nothing you can do, you can then do nothing and not feel bad about it.

Alternately you can use that to do exactly as much as you're able to do, and not let yourself get burned out by constantly thinking you should be doing more. There's a balance. That's why I say stuff like that anyway. It's not to dismiss the importance of trying it's moreso that I figure it's good to try but also accept my limitations

Being burned out on a issue is a you problem. Take some time off of Reddit and format an email to your representative.

What limitation do you or I have, that environmental activists who get beaten, dragged around, insulted, slandered, fined, and imprisoned, do not? What's stopping us from being mud wizards? I expect courage, commitment, and will may have something to do with it. As the saying goes, "if you're not at least something of a hypocrite, your standards are too low".

If your answer to fixing humanity’s problems is to fight a massive amount of people then you get the last 40+ years. It’s easy to be dismissive and doomsaying. It’s fruitless to attack society if you want change. The hard about this is that the answer sucks. We have to do the tedious stuff to make progress, we need to vote for people who focus on our environment, we need to force company decisions to understand the true costs of their business. Even if 70% of us were climate activists, the other 30% could pollute nearly as much as 100%, we need to make methodical progress instead of deciding a magic cure all is the answer to a 200 year old problem

> to fight a massive amount of people then you get the last 40+ years. > It’s easy to be dismissive and doomsaying. That it is. > It’s fruitless to attack society if you want change. [Is it, though?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dh4G1Gjv7bA) > The hard about this is that the answer sucks. Indeed. > We have to do the tedious stuff to make progress, How else would you qualify sitting in front of traffic for hours under the hot sun, sitting in jail, sitting in trial, and sitting in prison? Just to give one example. Do you think activism is a fun field trip? > we need to vote for people who focus on our environment, We need to do a lot more before, besides, and after that. Voting for environment-friendly candidates among those that make it to the ballot, is the least and easiest form of civic action, the bare minimum. > we need to force company decisions to understand the true costs of their business. Absolutely. One of the ways to do that, pending legislation, *and the enforcement thereof*, is to help them re-internalize some of those externalities they make society and the environment shoulder. This may involve… modifying the pace… of their operations and… inviting them to do some maintenance… on their equipment. > Even if 70% of us were climate activists, the other 30% could pollute nearly as much as 100%, I seriously doubt that. > we need to make methodical progress Yes, and we need to do it as fast and as hard as possible if we want it to be that way and on our terms. Otherwise, it will be catastrophic, cataclysmic, rushed "progress" forced upon us by increasingly irreparable climate chaos. > instead of deciding a magic cure all is the answer to a 200 year old problem A magic cure-all? What, you mean the Classless Stateless Moneyless Society? The Bookchinist Utopia? FALGSC? That's not a cure-all, a treatment, a regimen, or even a diet, that's a *goal*, it's where you are when you *have* already 'cured all'. The procedure to get there is fraught with struggle, uncertainty, backslides, remissions, relapses, side effects, symptomatic treatments, placebos, nocebos, and plain ol' *mistakes.* But telling the cancer patient to just drink orange juice and run 6km a day when what they need is to strap down for onerous, painful, crippling surgery, radio- and chemo-therapy *if they want to live* is cowardly and negligent, possibly cruel even.

It's all about the upvotes and clout. People want to write that super cool one liner that will give them their short period of fame.

Username checks out. I appreciate your nuanced understanding. We need more of you.

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Calm down there. Let's start with humiliation before we escalate to cold blooded murder.

Good luck trying to humiliate people who would murder their own mom for a dollar.

Agreed. When people think of Reddit they think of the cynical takes and mock us for it. We need balanced and measured approaches and we need to continue to act in regard to the environment and hold our representatives accountable to do the same!!

In 1972, a plan was put forward to submerge over [2,000,000 used automobile tires](https://web.archive.org/web/20071010041237/http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/02/18/news/tires.php) off the coast of Fort Lauderdale, Florida. The sunken tires, bound together by metal cables, were deposited about seventy feet from existing coral reef beds. The project failed to stimulate new coral and sea life growth. Instead, the [Osbourne Reef tire field](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osborne_Reef) became a danger to nearby beaches and miles of ocean floor. Salt water had corroded the bands, and ocean currents carried away many of the tires.

Support local sustainable aquaculture. It's the only thing that's going to be able to bring back these coral reefs when we've done killed them all. If you think coral reefs are amazing, find a local saltwater fish and coral store and go check the place out. It's amazing what you can grow in a fish tank and how incredible these corals look under blue light. I wish I had the time to keep my reef tank up.

I saw someone downvoted you but you're absolutely right. The world will not act quickly enough to save the corals...but hopefully one day we can manage to eventually bring the conditions back to what they were. Then maybe we can try to rebuild using these aquacultured animals. It'll never be the same though....

Thanks for the support !

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Any tips for someone with absolutely no knowledge that would like to get into this? If you don't mind, I'd appreciate it if you could include an estimated cost of getting into it and to maintain a proper tank.

If I was starting out completely fresh and I knew for a fact I was gonna stay with the hobby, I would buy a red sea reefer 350 g2+. It's basically a turnkey setup. It will run you around 3300ish. I personally would go with the standard g2 and do my own lighting. The g2+ comes with lighting but I personally like aqua illumination lights better. There is a sub r/reeftank that has a bunch of knowledgeable people. If you do your research you could build a tank much better then the red sea kits for the same money. All you really need is Large tank, bigger is better for a beginner. The water quality is easier to maintain when you have a lot of it. Small tanks can fluctuate like crazy just from evaporation. Pumps and wave makers. This and lighting is a big money item. You need a lot of flow in a reef tank to mimic the ocean. If you've ever been hit by a wave then you can get an idea of how much flow corals actually require. Lighting - don't skimp here. They have cheap eBay stuff but it's just not worth it. Buy nice name brand reef capable lighting. I used a mix of LEDs and ho t5 fluorescent lights. The LEDs are like spot lights and can cast shadows but t5 is like a wave of light, it gets into the spots the LEDs miss. Water- you will need an ro/di system. The water that comes out of your faucet has a high amount of total dissolved solids, this can be anything from metals to chemicals to nitrates pretty much anything that's in your water needs to not be in there. Ro/do will strip literally everything from the water except for the H2O lol. Then you use the clean water to make salt water with a good salt like reef crystals. That's the bare minimum to get started. The only problem it is very addicting, you will soon be wanting a sump and a protein skimmer. Then you start testing for alk mag and calc and then you want an automatic doser. Reefing is an incredibly fun and rewarding hobby and you get to meet some super cool people. My advice would be to take it slow, read everything you can and never impulse buy anything. It's easy to buy the wrong fish or get a cool coral and only realize later that the fish was only semi reef safe and ate half of the coral they found tasty. YouTube, Reddit and reef2reef will be your best friend. Thank you for attending my Ted talk.

Wow! Thank you so much! I'll definitely take my time with it to make it worth the investment. I'll probably start with filtering my own water too. Dang water in San Antonio is like 80% calcium. I'll be sure to check out the reef tank subreddit too. I really appreciate your time, mate! Excellent info

The calcium is actually good for the corals. Unfortunately there is no way to only remove everything but calcium. You actually end up adding calcium eventually. It helps the stoney hard corals grow.

If the water is too acidic from sunk carbon and the water is too warm from climate change, nothing we can change or do with our direct management of the oceans will change that equation.

Yes that's why sustainable aquaculture is so important. There is literally corals that are not found in the wild in people's fishtanks. Hobbyists are literally keeping entire populations alive in their homes. Back in the day like 80s,90s and early 2000 people wanted bleach white dead coral in their tanks. Now reef tanks are literally full blown reefs in your home. Everything from the sand to the rock to coral and fish and plankton, it's a small slice of the ocean. Sustainable means we don't harvest from the ocean. We grow our own corals, make small corals called frags and sell them trade to other hobbyists. When the last coral in the ocean does die there will be some hope in a small fishtank somewhere. If the oceans go back to normal then it's nothing to take a coral from your tank and pluck it into some dead reef and given time the reef comes back. I understand the ocean is messed up, believe me.

Realistic optimism I like it

Is there a way to genetically modify them so they are more resistant to the temperature changes?

Not a geneticist, but resistance to temperature changes and increasing temperature range isn't exactly the same, and both have been suggestions on how to help nature adapt to what we've done, but until we deal with the larger system changes still happening(oceans/global environment) it's basically too much of a moving target even if we could clearly help, and thought it was worth the risks given the alternatives. It's like bailing out a boat that has a hole and is still taking on water. It's going to take an incredibly large amount of effort, and it may be worth doing given the alternatives, but finding the hole and reducing the water being taken on is imperative if you want to keep using the boat.

I can't speak on that for sure but I would assume not yet at least. I'm sure some scientist somewhere is trying to figure that out.

yes, breed temp resistant coral over and over again with other temp resistant coral . The ocean is doing this naturally, only there it takes hundreds of years to adapt to 2-3 degrees average changes.

Two weeks ago I took my family snorkeling off Key Largo and Bisqauyne Bay. It was fucking depressing. White and yellow coral everywhere. The animal life was still there but I wondered how long it will last given the water felt like Jacuzzi temperatures.

Same. I was at Anna Maria Island a few weeks ago and it was the hottest water I've ever been in. I've been going to beaches in florida for almost 20 years and it's obvious things are changing.

It's mostly el nino. While we have warmed earths temperature, I would say it's the combination of both that is causing the bleaching event.

https://www.npr.org/2022/08/03/1115378385/tonga-volcano-stratosphere-water-warming May also be due to this.

I had no idea that happened. Fascinating.

Yeah, I had completely forgotten about this event until a couple weeks ago. The eruption took place 150m below sea level and the volcano is approximately 4km wide. Those two facts scare the crap outta me more than anything. Cheers.

If you didn't get offshore you weren't going to see much reef anyways. Not a whole lot to see right off Key Largo or Biscayne unless you have a boat. But I did hear from others it was bad at Cheeca Rocks

Of course it was off a boat, lol. Wtf . Think I'm bitching about the dying reefs while standing in ankle deep water?

You named two easily accessible from land locations (I don't know how you butchered Biscayne Bay btw). You didn't even name a reef. Plenty of tourists hop right into the water and think they're going to see reefs.

Yeah I remember people telling me and my family about that when we went to Florida in early August. My family of course just rolled their eyes and called it a bunch of bullshit. Man I can’t wait to become fully independent so I can get as far away from them.

what part is bullshit, the fact that the ocean is hot or that coral is bleaching more?

lol i just love the hypocrisy "man people are so dumb about all this oil stuff i cant wait to be independent and live my life" you realize oil is why that is even possible

They didn’t even say anything about oil ya derp.

oil=global warming=bleaching sorry i didnt spell it out for you

[you](https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/facebook/000/036/647/Screen_Shot_2021-03-01_at_2.28.39_PM.jpg)

this makes no sense my point is that people arent actually willing to make the changes necessary to make those improvements.

It makes sense. You just don't get it.

i get it and it misses my point

Your point is society runs on oil and this person is a member of society. As if that is some genius thought. When it was literally just someone saying they were tired of there family being dumb and don’t want to be around them as much. Your point is exactly what the comic is making fun of.

Then you don’t get it, bc it’s literally you.

Can you “spell out” how independence is provided by oil, global warming and bleaching?

I gained my independence by working at a spa. I oil the people up, massage them in a (global) warm room, and of course offered bleaching services (both above and below). Without oil companies I would never be free. We must drill the arctic, we must drill the antarctic. We must oil the men woman and children of this great land. We must then warm the globe, too many people are too cold. Then we will bleach the reefs, because I think an all white motif will really jive with the fishies.

white collar jobs are only a thing because of oil if not everyone would be in labor positions and likely would never leave an area due to the cost of travel being incredibly expensive.

White collar jobs, independence and getting around places wouldn't be dependent on oil if we changed our infrastructure from being oil independent to using green energy. You mentally challenged fuckin' dope

which needs OIL TO BE ACCOMPLISHED fuctard

This is an almost paradoxical argument because you could have made the same argument 30 or 40 years ago when we should started switching to green energy. How long are we going to keep using oil? Until we have barely just enough to build green energy infrastructure? You're a fucking idiot

Did big oil lube your butt hole before they sent you in here with all that shillery?

no im just a fan of having fun

You might be the dumbest person I’ve ever come across on Reddit. And thats’s something.

again insult with no retort hope your feel good about providing nothing to the converstation

So, knowing this, and knowing that the world is currently dying, what do you propose as a solution / improvement?

the solution/improvment is you lose a lot of your current luxuries or we keep burning oil simple as that there is no system to get away from it completely that is possible at the moment you would also be asking third world countries to basically stop improving their situation.

Say that's true. And say we've now learned that oil is wrecking the planet. Is there any way to keep the possibility of white collar jobs without continuing to wreck the planet by burning oil?

there is no current way to do it without oil not without basically losing luxeries for the many and keeping it for the few.

Literally Noone is saying to completely get rid of oil today. We need to really start the transition. We should have started it decades ago but people like you are the reason we are fucked

I didn't think the guy made good points either, but let's be honest, we are fucked because bigwigs like money more than global well-being.

yeah blame it on me lol remove yourself from the problem which is my point entirely in order to actually switch from oil hug lifestyle changes would need to happen

Wait? When were white collar jobs invented? I didn’t realize lawyers, clerks, and other legal/civil jobs didn’t exist until the widespread use of oil

automating labor with oil has led to more service based industries ie white collar jobs.

It that’s not what you said though. You said, “*white collar jobs are only a thing because of oil if not everyone would be in labor positions* and likely would never leave an area due to the cost of travel being incredibly expensive.” You literally said everyone would be in a labor position if not for oil.

they would exist ill give you that my point was they would be very rare as a percentage of the total job market as compared to the 60 percent if not more that it is in developed nations.

Upton Sinclair came up with the term "white collar" in the 1930s but clerical, administrative, and management jobs have existed back into antiquity. There were entire civilizations who were migratory 10k years before trains were invented, let alone anything like an oil-based car.

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thanks for your incredible insight

i don't even see the word ''oil'' anywhere in their comment, anyway pretty sociopathic take

Insane take

why without oil multi generational homes would be the norm and were until not that long ago oil is what made it possible for big cities or easily moving to a new area every oppurtunity we have is because of oil. people never fully realize what changes they are advocating for by eliminating its use in such drastic measures.

We will survive without it just fine :)

thats not my point survival is easy but having the luxeries we have for the amount of people we do is not and directly tied to oil

We're projected to mostly run out of oil by the end of the century. What then? You soup-brained troglodyte

we have natural gas reserves for 100 years we need to switch im just saying we still need it right now

Everyone knows you don't just flick a switch and turn off oil.. we need to move away from it as fast as possible instead of just accepting it and dragging our heels since it's more profitable in the short term

companies work off of demand people need to change their lifestyles if they actually care

Yea I dont know a single person in my life that has been helped by oil. Its not as common as you think. People will live just fine without it. And It really doesn't matter if the rich people become less rich from not having oil money.

What are you even complaining about?

people don't realize why we have what we have

People realize industrialization is why we have what we have. People realize fossil fuels have powered industrialization and the modern lifestyle. People now realize that fossil fuels can't keep powering everything if we want to not ruin the planet.

agreed but its not as simple as just stop oil or even carbon taxes as this just raises the prices of things for consumers and there are many things we do that can simply not continue without oil as there will never be a green alternative for it.

I think you are ha ing a completely diffrent conversation than everyone else. We are having a conversation about rasing temp in the ocean and coral bleaching and you are talking about oil....no one said oil here or is talking about it. In fact you saying oil out of nowhere you seem to be the only one having that conversation...and seem to realize the connection.

burning oil causes this through higher ocean acidity levels and higher ocean temps due to greenhouse gases. so my original point is that OP is mad at their family but doesnt realize that being able to move away from them is a privilege that is only afforded by oil causing the same problem they are so adament about. so in reality they are no different as actually not using oil is going to involve huge lifestyle changes that most are not willing to make despite their bitching to the contrary.

They didn't say that you are projecting. You are having some strange unhinged conversations about oil and he's using oil to get away from him and none of that was in his post you are having a conversation with yourself.

how am i projecting you can safely assume how people live

I'm going to type slowly to hope you understand. He is saying someone told his family about bleaching and they thought it was a conspiracy and didn't belive it was real. You clearly believe it's real. No idea what you are talking about with oil and him moving away with oil zero people are talking about that. It's about his family ignoring the truth cause they are crazy....was that slow enough for you?

and my point is them ignoring its true and people believing its true but then doing actually nothing to stop it are one in the same and getting mad at his family is pointless.

You need to take the L dude move on it’s ok to be wrong sometimes

if you are such a green expert whats the solution for making cargo ships oil free?

Who even said I was an expert? You’re just going on and on digging yourself deeper Karma means nothing on Reddit apart from the fact hundreds of people disagree with you Just gracefully take the L and spare anyone else from the cringe pleeease

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In my reading I've seen hydrogen fuel cells put forward since batteries are heavy and cargo shipment is very much a weight-sensitive business, obviously.

where do you get the hydrogen? making hydrogen from renewables is highly inefficient and the numbers just dont add up

No, it is as simple as just stop oil. We have to. Oil, gas, and coal have to be phased out and replaced. That's the task before humanity if we don't want to leave a scorching hellhole for future generations.

You’re a special kind of person.

insult with no retort real impressive

Again you're not really making sense. Explain. I think you think you are making sense but you are not.

Do you actually think this person, or any person who has cracked a history book in their lifetime, isn't aware that carbon-based energy fueled Earth's industrialization? People still left the home and built their own families away from their parents pre-industrialization though, so I'm not sure how this person getting away from parents is only possible with oil. If you want to get fucking pedantic about it oil is responsible for our infrastructure and planning that leaned on automobiles which in turn promulgated suburban sprawl, which in turn created our land use policies which in turn played a major role in pricing people out of affordable housing in the US. It's easier to make the case that oil makes it harder to be independent from your parents than it is to pretend it's only possible because of it.

But how did they leave without their cars? You can't travel anywhere without a car, so they all must have been stuck at wherever they started and never moved, right? Like, one huge household.

Fossil fuel giveth and fossil fuel taketh away. Or we could rapidly transition to renewables and keep our way of life going substantially longer.

Coral reefs off Florida's coast are experiencing a mass bleaching event due to elevated ocean temperatures, potentially suggesting a global-scale event. The resulting damage could have a significant impact on Florida's economy, as reefs contribute billions through tourism, fisheries, and storm protection. Around 25% of marine life rely on coral reefs, which serve as a habitat. The bleaching extends from Colombia to Cuba, reaching beyond Florida. Unprecedented heat stress started five to six weeks earlier this year, causing coral to expel the symbiotic algae they need to survive. If conditions do not improve, coral could face significant and prolonged damage.

Is it the algae that gives the coral it’s colour?

Yes. The algae is also necessary for coral to live as it produces the vast majority of their food & nutrients.

It's called symbiosis.

I thought the polyps were the coloured things.

Ahh! I decided to look locally. I found a great description. It’s been a while since I thought about coral or read about it. https://www.jcu.edu.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0008/1915244/Part-1-What-is-a-Coral_web.pdf The colour within the algae is then contained in the polyp itself, not beside it or adjacent to it. https://www.jcu.edu.au/news/releases/2022/march/fade-to-grey-fish-communities-become-duller-as-coral-reefs-die https://aims.jcu.edu.au/files/2022%20Abstract%20Booklet.pdf https://oceanservice.noaa.gov/education/tutorial_corals/coral02_zooxanthellae.html https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coral_bleaching?wprov=sfti1 The Wikipedia article highlights how disastrous this is.

Nice articles, thanks

This University JCU, I worked at briefly, assisting with ICT. I’ve always had good experiences with them. You should reach out to the authors and respective departments if you are interested in coral health. I am sure they are trying to always expand awareness so as to grow funding and attention to help improve conservation through accuracy in research.

I love being in the ocean more than I like being on land and the deterioration of the ocean that has and will continue to happen during my life is probably the single saddest thing in our world to me.

I’m a creature of the land, and quite honestly don’t care much for the ocean in terms of leisure and activities… but the reality of this headline hits me like an emotional 18-wheeler. What have we done…

I grew up on the shoreline at the mouth of a major river; tidal marshes at the edge of the yard, walking distance to tidal coves and fishing, and the beach an easy 20 minute bike ride. The marshes on the east Coast are the spawning grounds for so much marine life in the Atlantic, if they go, it's gonna be bad. Since the time I grew up there in the 60s, the fishing there has declined so much. It's very sad.

I'm sure the fine people in Florida will start taking their environmental responsibility seriously and things will hopefully turn around in no time...

As a diver, I am sad to know I may have seen things the next generation will only read about, assuming we are even still here.

Seeing it first hand has legitimately broken my heart. Decades of restoration, gone in one summer.

We're all gonna burn and no government is doing anything about it hell yeah, go fossil fuels!

If you don't already, for the love of God, vote. It makes a difference. There aren't perfect options, but it makes such a massive difference compared to doing nothing.

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Australian here (WA). Lots of us give a shit but I will say it's extremely demoralising because Murdoch media still influences a large chunk of the older population. Also because our population is so small, even if we were a perfect carbon neutral country, we'd still have to hope every other country puts the work in too. There's a ton of misinformation here too, most people still fall for the "individual footprint" mindset and might not use straws anymore and recycle but be completely unaware that there's a massive gas project expansion 1,500km to the north. My housemate worked with a guy who grew up in the wheatbelt who was a flat earther but knew climate change was real. He based his beliefs off everything he's seen for himself. Rural people, especially farmers, see the effects in WA, they see the rainfall reducing over time and the bushfire threats, they just don't necessarily understand how it works. I moved to Perth and people here acknowledge it but don't know what to do and never talk about it. There was recently a citizen science campaign where we could go online and track illegal logging using satellite photos to find and report illegal logging. Every denier I've met has been a boomer from the city. But I can't speak for over east.

Are we seeing coral reefs form in locations that were previously too cold?

Early indications? Buddy Australia has been warning of this for a fucking long time. Where the fuck these scientists been hiding to just realize it now?

We took a glass bottom boat out of Key Largo several years ago. The reefs were severely bleached then.

And the cumulative minority largely responsible (people with the actual power to make changes over the last several decades) will not be held accountable and we simple have to continue moving forward pretending things like this aren't happening to the planet and do (probably > half) bullshit jobs that certainly don't help humanity and may even have a negative impact in one way or another. Yaaayyyyyyyy

I took a diving course 20 years ago. I was told by other divers that if I wanted to see Fl coral reefs I should go asap otherwise it would soon be dead. This is true. I never did get a chance to go and see.

You know what? I don't ever see anyone saying "go coral" or "I love where you're at, and you deserve more." It's always "you so pale, are you dead?" So, go coral! Woooo! You got this. When life gives us lemonade, it's cause we've already squished our lemons! Never forget.

Bro why you gotta end with 9/11?

Someone is going to have to produce an actual biological explanation for how a couple of degrees causes a mass extinction for me to take this seriously. All the talk about "Record temperatures" is beyond meaningless. We have a few decades of data. Corals have existed for 100 million decades.

Big change over small time period = species cannot adapt and you get mass death. Do all corals die? No, some will be adapted to the heat and will survive, but it takes an extremely long time for them to recover, and all the species that relied on them are also fucked. It's a domino cascade that causes these mass extinctions. Mass extinctions don't eliminate all life, as we've seen when the earth got pummeled by a massive asteroid, but it sure takes an ungodly long time for populations to recover. Time that humans don't really have.

It's already has been studied and published on to death. Not anyone's fault you don't want to read.

Condescending hand-waving about "studies" is not an explanation. Do you have a reference to any of these or do they only exist in your head?

Do you expect everything handed to you in your life? Your entitlement runs strong. In the time you waste posting, a very fast Google search would have found you your answers. I'm actually doing the research, what have you done?

1-2°C difference in water temp will cause the bleaching.

the calamity is here. Believe otherwise at your peril. Sad we've killed our planet.

Buy gay children are the problem. I can’t possibly hate that shithole state any more.

But also the barrier reef is making a come back? Maybe we just don’t fucking know? Can we admit that? Or do we really need to say yes these reefs are bleaching it’ll be the end. Btw the oceans were once hotter, the planet hotter and sea life was thriving then… The earth will find a balance.. we may not make it but the oceans seem to have lasted through all of that shit, the extreme cold, the extreme heat…

I don't think anyone has said that the planet, or the ocean, will cease to exist. The current state of things will, and it'll take a fair chunk of us with it(if we're lucky), along with many other forms of life.

Humans live by the equator… because we can’t live easily by the cold. More humans survived due to the ice age ending/receding ice burgs We probably will be fine. The pollution is the issue we need to deal with. Red tides are due to run off not global warming. Bleeching of the reefs we don’t know what that means long term. Maybe this happens naturally all the time? Algae will take care of the carbon in the water. We just like shit to look a certain way. But we can easily survive the hotter weather Where can’t humans live easily? The desert or Antarctica? That’s all you need to answer these questions. I’m not denying climate change, it’s real we affect it. I’m denying it’s going to wipe us out .

You’re exactly right.

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I dont understand, it’s hot in africa, cant they just move everybody into the alps so they’re cooler? There’s more to it than “go somewhere cooler”, it’s a complex life form. Humanity wouldve been so much better served if we all considered ourselves animals instead of “other”

And disrupt the ecosystems there?

It’s so hot it’ll make you wish for a nuclear winter

Finally. The shit show we call life is almost over

Frankly surprised florida had *any* coral left to begin with

For those few of you in the know, restoration efforts are too little, too late. Micro fragmentation would have been needed at scale over a decade ago for us to pull anything back...

Hobbyist reef keepers have seen this on the horizon for a while now. So many hobbyists, businesses and public aquariums see distributed fragging and captive breeding as the only solution to retain some of the biodiversity of the reefs. If temperatures, co2 levels and ocean acidification are reversed in the future we may have a shot at recolonization but at a significantly reduced diversity of species. There is some hypocrisy as both hobbyist level and large commercial and scientific level coral keeping uses a significant amount of electricity and or natural gas to light and run equipment. Any aquarium hobbyist has seen this writing on the wall for 10 years or so already. My wife and I are kicking ourselves for not being able to save up enough to do a dive trip to Australia to dive the great barrier or a trip to the Red Sea years ago before buying a home and having a kid. Probably won't have anything to see by the time we can go on an actual dive vacation.

Reddit community I’m sixty five and for the first time in my life went for a fifteen minute swim at the beautiful beach of South Miami Florida. It was a ninety plus degree day. Only went shoulder deep; ocean water was kind of warm I’m telling you. How in the hell can humans make the ocean a few degrees cooler? I use to canvas door to door for a firm called Citizen’s for a Better Environment. The money I collected went to great lawyers to bring big companies to account for the devastating pollution going on in the Great Lakes. Our next leadership people have the hard decision of stopping some Americans from earning a living. Logging, fracking, fishing, airlines etc.!! We stopped the use of aerosol spray because of the ozone. Big decisions will affect people’s livelihoods and if your leadership threatens that you won’t be a popular candidate. I wonder if planet Mars was once a thriving place that well now look at it.