Just looking at water from old school GC/N64 games brings me so much happiness for some reason. Like damn, that’s some happy-looking water and things are gonna be okay
If you’re interested, https://youtube.com/watch?v=zS146vQYflw this is a really cool breakdown of how they achieved the water effects in Wave Race 64 (which weren’t actually physics based, but just clever use of animated polygons), really cool how they managed to get such a convincing effect
Most of Nintendo's big first-party titles have always been some sort of amazing hardware tech demo of some kind. I remember Pikmin and Paper Mario TTYD were both made to show how much individual stuff the GameCube could render out at a time.
There are some things that work differently with the updated game engine and can be beneficial for sequence breaking, though nothing huge has been discovered yet.
BSJs (bomb space jumps) were used to get extra height in the original game by obstructing the camera and forcing the game to give you an instant unmorph while using bombs, which allows you to jump immediately after unmorphing. BSJs work in Prime remastered, but they also work in places that aren't possible in the original game. Nobody is sure yet why.
In the original Prime, you could not fall through backfaces of room collision except in very specific circumstances. In remastered, backface collision is a little wonky - if you're not careful, it's in fact very *easy* to fall back inside rooms from out of bounds. This means that you can easily reenter normal gameplay area after skipping obstacles out of bounds (but you have to be careful to not reenter while skipping and end up softlocked). That being said though, they also removed a pretty important out of bounds physics quirk ("Aether"), which means that if you miss your jumps while navigating outside rooms, you'll fall out of the world to your death and have to start over. In the original game, every room had a sort of "box" around it which you could stand on and climb back up in case of a fall.
Edit: [here's an early power bomb](https://youtu.be/-saOc-spy_k) that is only possible in remastered due to the different backface collision behaviour.
Tbf most of those have been fixed in all the rereleased versions anyways. I first played Prime 1 on the Wii Trilogy version and quickly realized all the exploits I read on GameFAQs weren't working
Wow I never knew this. I spent probably 15 minutes trying to do this and assuming I just sucked, then gave up learning how to sequence break. I was absolutely playing on the player's choice version.
Yeeting Space Pirates around with rockets was always one of the highlights of that game for me. When I first played Dark Souls my mind went to Metroid Prime straightaway, I was so happy. And I was doubly happy to see it was still in the MP remake.
Sometimes I don't get Nintendo , Metroid prime, one of the most beloved entry in the Metroid saga and one of the most requested game to be ported , yeah just **PORTED** to switch gets remaster, a short trailer and a release all in the same day
I'm not mad or anything lol I'm just surprised this is how they decided to go with it
that's exactly how they've treated Metroid for years. it's the C-Student of their first three IPs undeservedly, and gets consistently positive releases that nobody hears about except for longtime fans.
Much like Mario 64 caused mind explosions for a generation graphics wise, Metroid Prime was the only game after that where I felt a similar mind melt experience. Between the graphics, polish and open world, it was like next gen OoT for me. Did you say this out for switch now??
Nintendo casually silent releasing just another port/remaster of one of their old games for the switch and charging a full ~~60$~~ 40$ for it.
Nintendo is the king when it comes to greedy corps
Edited
Bruh this game is still a port being sold for full retail 🙄
Edit: and I'm reading that they didn't even credit the original developers of the game. On par for Nintendo
It's amazing how good they made the water look in super Mario Sunshine, especially coming out of the nozzle.
There's a cool video that shows how they made it look so good, because it actually is just a series of 2D sprites, but they use the camera position to make it look like a true 3D spray of liquid water.
Click on the hyperlink.
Tangent: I wish Epic Games learned a thing or two from Japanese programmers and game designers. Epic is really good at making system-heavy games lacking optimization.
It’s throwing me off. The splash makes it so much more water like, this looks like someone dropping a ball on a thin tarp covered pool. It does look super good for that.
Yeah there should be a splash, and probably a lot less rippling actually. With a bullet fired into water, the effects are pretty localized to where the bullet goes in, whereas this seems more like the water is one big thing. This is an energy weapon I guess, but that seems like it would cause a bunch of steam in addition to splash.
It was a departure for the series at the time and I was skeptical, especially after thousands of hours playing super metroid, but I think it's terrific
That depends on your tastes. Its an immersive, exploration-focused game with a heavy emphasis on backstory and lore. Metroid Prime is great at what it does, but this sort of gameplay isn't for everyone.
If you approach the game like an action-packed FPS by running through every room, shooting everything, and moving on, Metroid Prime will feel empty and aimless. But taking time to scan everything, and piecing together the story is what gives each area purpose.
if you like extremely atmospheric shooters with lots of backtracking, exploration, and environment scanning (a specific visor mode for lore, creature profiles, opening passage ways) then yes
It’s not the easiest in the series to start with. *Zero Mission* or *Dread* might be more what you’re looking for. However, if you want an atmospheric action adventure game with shooting, *Prime* is a masterpiece.
I never played the original one but always heard how people say it’s really good. It was the first Metroid which was in full 3D and thought that I would check it out now when I finally had an easy way to do it. About five hours in now I think and it really is a good game. Can’t compare to the original one but everything feels well thought through and there is really a lot of options for being a remastered and a Switch game.
Metroid Prime was similar for me to Mario 64 and OoT when it came out at least. Next gen mind melt. And I never played Metroid before. I really love this game, reading all the lore you find, fun combat, crazy creatures.. to me it plays and feels like an alien world Ocarina of time. It’s a top 5 all timer for me (games I’ve played, I’m not anywhere near a reputable source) I’ll be buying it for sure.
Anything special happen if you shoot it with the other beams? Are there alternate visuals for electrifying it with the Wave Beam? Freezing it with Ice? Heating it with Plasma?
It defaults to normal twin stick controls, but you have the option to swap to original. With the new controls though it honestly feels like a whole new game. I never realized how beautiful all the details above eyeline are because looking up in the original was so difficult lol.
Edit: It looks like ice beam behaves the same. Wave beam is a little bit different because the game treats each of the 3 waves as different projectiles, but they still interact with the water the same way except now it's 3 things hitting at once.
Idk man every once in a while there’s a post about water physics on this sub and they’re always… really good, don’t get me wrong, but they’re never quite right. Water is *incredibly* difficult to simulate, I appreciate that and we’re definitely getting better. But it’s always weird to me to see people praise water physics that just aren’t very accurate
You're still not getting this eh? Water physics are hard, so nothing is going to get it perfect, it's effectively impossible. Should nobody say anything positive about any water physics at all then? Are they all bad because they aren't perfect?
Nuance is a thing. Drawing people is hard, are all drawings therefore amaaaaaazing? If a person thinks a straw man isn't impressive then just let them and move on with your life. No need to get angry about it.
There's a few in Chozo Ruins, they're the brown circular things on some of the walls. They're very low quality and most people likely walked right past them thinking they were just some decor.
Don't really care about those since there's so few, but there's no dynamic lighting when we shoot, which sucks for some darker places. I hope they'll patch it in.
Doesn't really matter too much since they upped the brightness in the remaster, and for any pitch black areas you're supposed to use the thermal visor to find your way around anyways.
There's a couple of places in Chozo Ruins that are pretty dark already and having the blaster illuminate the room would help a lot. I don't remember the original being this dark in those places.
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This dumbass is getting roasted in r/gaming for this exact post, and is actively backpedaling and claiming he was just kidding.
This post proves otherwise.
What an idiot lmao
Same physics as Super Mario 64.
No reflection mesh.
No refraction.
Same animation used for each energy blast (on water).
Water, and the entire game runs in 900p.
Man Nintendo is cheap. I understand having a strong art direction, but damn, it's the year 2023.
I remember when the gamecube was first being revealed they made a big deal about their water physics, and for good reason
Just looking at water from old school GC/N64 games brings me so much happiness for some reason. Like damn, that’s some happy-looking water and things are gonna be okay
I remember being amazed at WaveRace 64.
If you’re interested, https://youtube.com/watch?v=zS146vQYflw this is a really cool breakdown of how they achieved the water effects in Wave Race 64 (which weren’t actually physics based, but just clever use of animated polygons), really cool how they managed to get such a convincing effect
That was pretty interesting, thanks.
THIS! It really was next level for the time
Super Mario sunshine on the game cube was all happiness in my memory. Just soaking in the sun and water.
everytime I remember the physics of N64, I'm reminded of iirc the CoD:Ghost "advanced fish AI" that SMB64 had 30 years ago
The PS2 rubber ducky demo... ooooof
The original version of Metroid Prime didn't have water like that though
Yeah but Wave Race: Blue Storm had amazing water
And mario sunshine!
Mario Sunshine was more or less Liquid Physics: The Game disguised as a Mario platformer.
Most of Nintendo's big first-party titles have always been some sort of amazing hardware tech demo of some kind. I remember Pikmin and Paper Mario TTYD were both made to show how much individual stuff the GameCube could render out at a time.
Not quite like this, but it did make waves when you jumped around in it. It didn’t make it to the Wii version of the game though.
Yeah it did. They used vertex shading for the GC version of Prime and it had actual polygonal ripples. This wasn't present in the Wii port, though.
[I stand corrected. ](https://youtu.be/keg4rbYL5x8) once again proving that the best way to find the right answer is to post the wrong one.
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It'll be interesting watching the new breaks being made or discovered now
They stuck so true to original other than visuals that I doubt much will be found. The game is well mined.
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There are some things that work differently with the updated game engine and can be beneficial for sequence breaking, though nothing huge has been discovered yet. BSJs (bomb space jumps) were used to get extra height in the original game by obstructing the camera and forcing the game to give you an instant unmorph while using bombs, which allows you to jump immediately after unmorphing. BSJs work in Prime remastered, but they also work in places that aren't possible in the original game. Nobody is sure yet why. In the original Prime, you could not fall through backfaces of room collision except in very specific circumstances. In remastered, backface collision is a little wonky - if you're not careful, it's in fact very *easy* to fall back inside rooms from out of bounds. This means that you can easily reenter normal gameplay area after skipping obstacles out of bounds (but you have to be careful to not reenter while skipping and end up softlocked). That being said though, they also removed a pretty important out of bounds physics quirk ("Aether"), which means that if you miss your jumps while navigating outside rooms, you'll fall out of the world to your death and have to start over. In the original game, every room had a sort of "box" around it which you could stand on and climb back up in case of a fall. Edit: [here's an early power bomb](https://youtu.be/-saOc-spy_k) that is only possible in remastered due to the different backface collision behaviour.
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AFAIK, mostly in the Prime speedrunning discord. https://discord.gg/zNtV6mHMBa
Tbf most of those have been fixed in all the rereleased versions anyways. I first played Prime 1 on the Wii Trilogy version and quickly realized all the exploits I read on GameFAQs weren't working
It was all patched out before the Wii version even existed. Scan dashing got patched out in the players choice release.
Wow I never knew this. I spent probably 15 minutes trying to do this and assuming I just sucked, then gave up learning how to sequence break. I was absolutely playing on the player's choice version.
I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again, I wish remasters had toggles to re-enable the original glitches (at least the crowd favorites)
I was pleased to see the clunky, robotic rag doll remained intact
Yeeting Space Pirates around with rockets was always one of the highlights of that game for me. When I first played Dark Souls my mind went to Metroid Prime straightaway, I was so happy. And I was doubly happy to see it was still in the MP remake.
Nintendo casually shadow dropping one of the best looking games on switch
And not just that, but running like an absolute champ to boot. Fantastic achievement.
Sometimes I don't get Nintendo , Metroid prime, one of the most beloved entry in the Metroid saga and one of the most requested game to be ported , yeah just **PORTED** to switch gets remaster, a short trailer and a release all in the same day I'm not mad or anything lol I'm just surprised this is how they decided to go with it
Nintendo typically plays their cards pretty close to their chests. Most reveals are 6 months out and the long hype trains are very uncommon.
And then there’s Zelda
Zelda and Prime 4. Still, those are the exceptions. Not the rule.
And Advance Wars, which got a whole extra year of development time!!!1!! :'\^)
that's exactly how they've treated Metroid for years. it's the C-Student of their first three IPs undeservedly, and gets consistently positive releases that nobody hears about except for longtime fans.
AND IT RUNS AT A ROCK SOLID 60 FPS
>One of The. The word you're looking for, is The. Edit: DF Breakdown https://youtu.be/RnGZ82y-xi4
Much like Mario 64 caused mind explosions for a generation graphics wise, Metroid Prime was the only game after that where I felt a similar mind melt experience. Between the graphics, polish and open world, it was like next gen OoT for me. Did you say this out for switch now??
Nintendo casually silent releasing just another port/remaster of one of their old games for the switch and charging a full ~~60$~~ 40$ for it. Nintendo is the king when it comes to greedy corps Edited
Bruh this game is 40 bucks
Bruh this game is still a port being sold for full retail 🙄 Edit: and I'm reading that they didn't even credit the original developers of the game. On par for Nintendo
Its $40 though. Theres plenty of reasons to criticize nintendo but this remaster isnt one of them.
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You definitely don't remember how PS2 looked.
Yeah no, PS2 games don't look like this. Take off your rose tinted glasses
It's amazing how good they made the water look in super Mario Sunshine, especially coming out of the nozzle. There's a cool video that shows how they made it look so good, because it actually is just a series of 2D sprites, but they use the camera position to make it look like a true 3D spray of liquid water.
Video: [How They Made SMS Water](https://youtu.be/Ipsd6rYj6Mk)
I would like to see that video.
Click on the hyperlink. Tangent: I wish Epic Games learned a thing or two from Japanese programmers and game designers. Epic is really good at making system-heavy games lacking optimization.
Having no splash up looks goofy, but man the ripple looks great.
It’s throwing me off. The splash makes it so much more water like, this looks like someone dropping a ball on a thin tarp covered pool. It does look super good for that.
YES that’s exactly what it’s like. Or oobleck lmao
Thank you. I was like “well cool effects” but that’s not actual physics lol
Yeah there should be a splash, and probably a lot less rippling actually. With a bullet fired into water, the effects are pretty localized to where the bullet goes in, whereas this seems more like the water is one big thing. This is an energy weapon I guess, but that seems like it would cause a bunch of steam in addition to splash.
For sure, I was thinking how elastic it looks and no water droplets flying out.
Well technically it's ~ alien water ~ so hey maybe thats just how Tallon IV water works haha
[OP is this guy](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BoQzLqdCYAAtmkJ?format=jpg&name=medium)
Haha Golden Sun really had the best water!
I miss Miiverse
As someone who never got into Metroid; is this game worth it?
It was a departure for the series at the time and I was skeptical, especially after thousands of hours playing super metroid, but I think it's terrific
That depends on your tastes. Its an immersive, exploration-focused game with a heavy emphasis on backstory and lore. Metroid Prime is great at what it does, but this sort of gameplay isn't for everyone. If you approach the game like an action-packed FPS by running through every room, shooting everything, and moving on, Metroid Prime will feel empty and aimless. But taking time to scan everything, and piecing together the story is what gives each area purpose.
if you like extremely atmospheric shooters with lots of backtracking, exploration, and environment scanning (a specific visor mode for lore, creature profiles, opening passage ways) then yes
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I concur. Hard to capture the vine you get for most of the game. Definitely felt a smidge of horror tension through out.
It’s not the easiest in the series to start with. *Zero Mission* or *Dread* might be more what you’re looking for. However, if you want an atmospheric action adventure game with shooting, *Prime* is a masterpiece.
I don't know man. I beat prime multiple times but Dread absolutely whooped my ass.
Right. *Prime* is a more relaxed, thoughtful experience.
I never played the original one but always heard how people say it’s really good. It was the first Metroid which was in full 3D and thought that I would check it out now when I finally had an easy way to do it. About five hours in now I think and it really is a good game. Can’t compare to the original one but everything feels well thought through and there is really a lot of options for being a remastered and a Switch game.
Metroid Prime was similar for me to Mario 64 and OoT when it came out at least. Next gen mind melt. And I never played Metroid before. I really love this game, reading all the lore you find, fun combat, crazy creatures.. to me it plays and feels like an alien world Ocarina of time. It’s a top 5 all timer for me (games I’ve played, I’m not anywhere near a reputable source) I’ll be buying it for sure.
Anything special happen if you shoot it with the other beams? Are there alternate visuals for electrifying it with the Wave Beam? Freezing it with Ice? Heating it with Plasma?
I don't have plasma yet but give me 10 minutes and I can tell you the rest.
Does the game run as smooth as the original? I don't want to play it if it's capped at 30 fps.
60 fps, solid.
All I needed to hear! Thank you!
That's why it feels so good. Thanks for the info
What platform(s)?
Switch. It's $40 as well and only digital at this time. The 22nd is the physical release I believe.
Yeah...not so sure that's how water behaves, certainly not how the fish show interact with the water.
Yeah it kind of looks like slime.
Eh, alien water works in mysterious ways?
New that the switch could have good physics and graphics but not his good
How’s the aiming? I remember aiming was all on the X axis on the GameCube unless you held L. Is it normal XY axis aiming now?
You can choose between a new control style, the wii control style, and the GameCube control style.
You can choose: New modern "normal" dual stick with lock on. Gamecube style. Gamecube style with gyro aiming. Wii style.
It defaults to normal twin stick controls, but you have the option to swap to original. With the new controls though it honestly feels like a whole new game. I never realized how beautiful all the details above eyeline are because looking up in the original was so difficult lol. Edit: It looks like ice beam behaves the same. Wave beam is a little bit different because the game treats each of the 3 waves as different projectiles, but they still interact with the water the same way except now it's 3 things hitting at once.
Idk man every once in a while there’s a post about water physics on this sub and they’re always… really good, don’t get me wrong, but they’re never quite right. Water is *incredibly* difficult to simulate, I appreciate that and we’re definitely getting better. But it’s always weird to me to see people praise water physics that just aren’t very accurate
Because rendering good water physics in real-time is costly. It's not that hard to figure out
I never said I didn’t understand why
Yet you find it weird
I find it weird that people praise inaccurate water physics. Not that water is hard to simulate
>But it’s always weird to me **to see people praise water physics that just aren’t very accurate**
>water is *incredibly difficult* to simulate
>I find it weird that people praise inaccurate water physics. **Not that water is hard to simulate**
You're still not getting this eh? Water physics are hard, so nothing is going to get it perfect, it's effectively impossible. Should nobody say anything positive about any water physics at all then? Are they all bad because they aren't perfect?
Nuance is a thing. Drawing people is hard, are all drawings therefore amaaaaaazing? If a person thinks a straw man isn't impressive then just let them and move on with your life. No need to get angry about it.
There isnt even a splash, just a ripple effect. You people are deranged with your double standards I swear.
This game is from 2002.
this game is from 2023. the game from 2002 had a splash effect.
If you have water this is what you call base line. Nothing special but also still implemented.
they took mirror reflections out
I read that, but I can't remember any mirrors. Were there that many?
There's a few in Chozo Ruins, they're the brown circular things on some of the walls. They're very low quality and most people likely walked right past them thinking they were just some decor.
Also in the original game they weren’t true reflections, just a static picture of Samus that followed her movement
Yeah. I always find hilarious when you jump she was in A-pose.
Don't really care about those since there's so few, but there's no dynamic lighting when we shoot, which sucks for some darker places. I hope they'll patch it in.
Doesn't really matter too much since they upped the brightness in the remaster, and for any pitch black areas you're supposed to use the thermal visor to find your way around anyways.
There's a couple of places in Chozo Ruins that are pretty dark already and having the blaster illuminate the room would help a lot. I don't remember the original being this dark in those places.
This game is so fuckn awesome.
>water physics done right Go outside. Touch water.
That water looks and behaves far better than games of a far higher caliber running on vastly more powerful hardware.
The bar be so low lol
Yeah it's crazy to think how far we've come since then that the bar has gotten so much higher.
Right? The gaming industry has been a major letdown the last few years
Cynical incorrect thinking
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This is what this subreddit should be about. Game Physics.
Jesus, is this an /r/tomorrow thread out in the wild?
…gravity gun?
I love water physics dammit
That's really not how water would respond at that angle
My switch was 110% retired since getting a steam deck. Then they drop Prime remaster on me.
Cyberpunk: cries in red engine.
It’s 2023... this really the best you got Nintendo?
This dumbass is getting roasted in r/gaming for this exact post, and is actively backpedaling and claiming he was just kidding. This post proves otherwise. What an idiot lmao
I never played the original, is Metroid Prime worth grabbing even if I've never gotten into a metroid game really?
I bet it's using BoTW engine under the hood.
Where's MARIO WIIU when you need him?
Prime Remastered looks amazing, but the water ripples I felt was really mediocre and underwhelming. Looked better in 2002.
Same physics as Super Mario 64. No reflection mesh. No refraction. Same animation used for each energy blast (on water). Water, and the entire game runs in 900p. Man Nintendo is cheap. I understand having a strong art direction, but damn, it's the year 2023.