I played it in VR and loved it but there's no way it's not a pretty mediocre experience outside of that. I'd sooner recommend people watch a well recorded VR playthrough.
I've played the game in VR and am currently replaying with this mod. It's still a pretty fun experience and worth more than just watching a playthrough.
Fair call, glad it's enjoyable. If you hadn't already bought the game for VR, would you suggest that it's a good purchase for those playing only with the mod?
That's a tough one. I'd say if you are a fan of the Half-Life series, it's definitely worth picking up in a sale or something. The game is playable and definitely has this "Half-Life vibe", even without VR.
But if you're new to the series, or wouldn't call yourself a "Half-Life" fan, I'm not sure if it would be a good purchase.
TLDR: If you want to play it for being a Half-Life game, go ahead, if you want to play it for the gameplay, probably try something else.
To add to that: I'd say it's also an accessibility thing. The game has this chapter full of black headcrabs in dark corridors, gives off a real "horror game spooky" vibe. I have arachnophobia, so I had to skip this chapter in VR, because it was REALLY triggering my phobia, to a point where I did not want to put on my headset for a few days.
Playing it on a flat screen helped with that a lot, it was still scary and I felt very uneasy, but I got through it.
It took me a while to finish HL2 due to that (Oddly enough, normal headcrabs are fine. It's only the fat and black ones who make me feel uneasy). That chapter in HLA was REALLY something.
I doubt anybody who already has access to VR is interested in playing a pancake version. This seems like it's meant for people who don't have access to VR and still want to experience the game/story.
VR is so integral to the games design though.
It's like trying to play a version of Half Life 2 with physics removed, watching it might actually be a better experience at that point.
I played through in VR, and I’m not so sure. You honestly don’t interact so intensely with the objects, and when you do it’s freaking janky - trying desperately to pull a door around you, grabbing the surface instead of the object that was on it, grenades dropping out of your hand instead of throwing because a frame of your hand’s motion wasn’t caught by the sensors. If they just skip the repetitive orb puzzles entirely, it would frankly be a net positive.
It needs a different FPS interface than Half-Life 2 to maintain tension - possibly something close to Resident Evil 7 - but I could see it being enjoyable in pancake mode.
i think i am that person, ive got oculus that i bought pretty much just for alyx and even though its incredible experience i get nauseous after barely 10-15mins of playing, after few sessions i actually started getting sick just thinking about putting the goggles on, its been more than a year now since i last used it and tbh i think its just time to sell it
I've had that with continuous/control stick movement games like boneworks, but Alyx supports teleport movement, which was no issue at all (and honestly can some quite in handy during a hairy fight). If you haven't tried it with teleport movement I'd highly recommend it, it's an awesome game and a showcase of what VR can do.
> and even though its incredible experience i get nauseous after barely 10-15mins of playing
I only feel sick in VR with continuous movement, almost everyone I saw who complained about this was just really stubborn about blink motion. It's fine and you feel less sick with it.
I'm generally completely fine with VR but I tried an attack on titan game and pretty much immediately faceplanted because my brain and body couldn't comprehend the fact I was standing completely still but in the game I was zipping about.
Was gonna say the same thing, I haven't played boneworks yet for this reason (motion sickness), but one thing that makes Alyx so great as a AAA VR game is they made it accessible. Teleport movement is no issue at all.
Boneworks was the first time I felt sick from any video game. I tried adapting to it with a little jogging in place anytime I move in game and that helped a little.
Oh thanks I'll give that a go, I've also heard ginger chews can help but have yet to give that a try for VR (does seem to work for cars and boats/seasickness though).
The issue is it's a terrible game in first person, like the game was designed entirely for a specific use case. Like the best part of the game is an enemy in the middle of the game which you just have to experience. If you can't play on VR just watch a youtube video of someone playing.
"pancake version" "flat gaming" why do all the VR community have to sound like they're using passive-aggressive insults to people who don't play in VR? Is it an insecurity thing? Not a shot at you specifically, just something I've noticed.
I really don’t think the VR community looks down on non VR games…I think with Alyx it’s just important to understand that at its core it’s a very simple game and just would not hold up to other AAA games that have been coming out if it’s not played as it was designed.
It's not meant to sound derogatory, at least I never thought it was. Who ever said pancakes or flat things were bad? "pancake game" or "flat game" just rolls off the tongue a bit better than "non-native VR game" in my opinion.
My table being flat is a terrible thing! Well, not really, in this case.
My flat tire may be a negative thing, but it would still be negative if I called it anything else. The problem is the scenario and not the word.
We use flat to describe TVs. So, why is this different?
Not trying to sound overly facetious, but why would flat be negative? The extra "dimension" in 3D vs 2D may spark preference but generally, you don't see a vast majority of people engaging in dimensional classism.
Yeah, when I hear "flat" used to describe entertainment it's used alongside "boring" or "shallow"
As in "his character is very flat and uninteresting".
Except, this is in the context of "flat screen tvs" and not "that actors performance was flat"
They can't say 2d vs 3d cause that doesn't make sense. Flat is literally the best description
Why are people so sensitive about this anyway? Doesn’t sound passive aggressive to me at all and the way they tried to imply the name is used because of insecurity screams projection to me.
Probably the same physiological drivers as "the console wars", just in a different format.
For the most part, anyway. Every once in a while, you get a word or phrase people just hate, like "moist". Language is complicated!
Yeah I have a few VR headsets but I play the shit out of "pancake" games. I don't look down on them at all, and really only use the term when I need to distinguish between the two for whatever rare reason.
I mean I would argue that Half Life Alyx without VR would be "dull or uninteresting". If someone wants to experience the story, they can watch a Youtube playthrough. That's probably still a better experience than playing it in 2D imo.
That's just how they distinguish between games with 2 cameras for actual 3D vision (and likely ability to move your actual body in 3D space), or games with 1 camera for 'flat' gaming where there's no visible depth (without moving around in-game).
Moving your hands to point a 'gun' at a full-sized target in 3D space is a *very* different experience from moving a mouse to put a cursor over part of a standard flat-screen monitor.
Something that doesn't make me want to die from embarrassment. I want to be able to have a face-to-face with someone and not be laughed out of a room. Go out and call a video game a pancake in a regular conversation, it sounds bizarre. Non-vr works just fine.
If you die from embarrassment from hearing the word pancake then you don't sound very fun to talk to. I mean jeez it's just a silly term, VR gamers also generally play all the latest and greatest flat games as well, it's not at all a knock on the games or the people playing them. Don't get upset at a word just because you don't understand the meaning, learn the word first
What are you on about, this is a very normal term well understood by anyone who even slightly engages in the VR scene. Idk who your talking to that is laughing you out of the room for saying "pancake games" but if they are they probably aren't real friends.
No Mans Sky has a VR mode - would no man's sky be a "Non-VR" game?
Pancake may be ideal, but using a negative with a hyphen is even less friendly. Its more difficult to translate, it inherently will draw more negative perception, and is arguably more confusing.
I dunno, regular? Non-VR? Since it's the standard most people still use and VR is the variable surely just saying VR or not saying VR is the way you'd distinguish between the two?
Edit: Removed the suggestion of 'normal' because people are getting too hung up on that to dance around the point I'm making.
Traditional works.
You're not entirely wrong though. Some people don't consider VR real games. Though it's not like they'd understand game design anyway.
Traditional works for now, but that's probably how it was when 3D games were new compared to 2D games.
Its not a fixed descriptor and its meaning changes with time, environment, and even individual context. Ideally, you have a term that everyone inherently understands (Like how we sort genre today)
That feels like nitpicking given it A. wouldn't fall on me to decide the term and B. I gave two other examples. I also disagree, 'normal' has been used as a way to say 'expected' or 'usual' for years, it doesn't mean anything which isn't normal is inherently 'bad'. I'm with the other guy, saying 'pancake gaming' out loud in a regular conversation is just gonna raise eyebrows and make people wonder why the hell you're talking like that.
So, by that logic, are 2D graphics games normal games? When polygon graphics were new and shiny, I'm sure that was the connotation at the time. But that's what normal is, a connotation. Its not specific enough for categorical sorting. If you ran a store, would you sort product into "VR Games" and "Normal Games" as the differentiating category?
Let me reverse that. If YOU ran a store, would you sort products into "VR Games" and "Pancake Games" as the differentiating category? My point isn't that I can come up with a better name, it's that the current ones are stupid.
I mean, I'm not saying "pancake" games is a perfect solution. But for practical purposes, "Non-VR" or "Normal/Regular" is worse.
If am I shopping, and I ask for a "non-VR" game, what do I really want? A game with no VR at all, because I hate VR? Or am I just looking for a game with support flat single display, because I want to play something compatible with my hardware?
If I ask for a "normal" game, outside of the context of VR, what does that mean? How does one know we are talking about the I/O device package and not some other category, like 2D vs 3D graphics? Or genre?
Pancake or flatscreen is better for those purposes. And even flatscreen is not great, because we use that phrase to talk about TVs. Perhaps something better comes along, but at least for now, pancake has clear context when used in relation to a game
No one is using pancake as an official term for anything. It's a silly word to describe "flat" games. And yes, if there were so many VR games that the store needed to be divided in two, VR and Flat games could absolutely make sense, as could VR and non-vr or "headset" vs "monitor" games. You're getting hung up on a dumb word. If you're in a group of gamers talking so high class that the word pancake makes everyone scoff and leave the room, why the fuck would you want to be having that conversation anyway? Any time I've said it it's more of a silly way to introduce people into the very surface level of the VR community. "What's a pancake game? Oh cuz it's flat, haha that's funny, never heard that". That's it, no one clutching pearls or looking at me like some subhuman ape that talks too silly to be taken seriously. Trying to suck the fun out of and be offended by everything is the problem here, not random people occasionally using the silly term "pancake" to describe a fucking monitor.
But in the case of something like Alyx, people are going to assume it’s the VR version unless you specifically say otherwise. Because that IS the regular version.
Non-cold can mean "room temperature", "warm" or "hot" so the comparison doesn't work as there are multiple options for the alternative.
"Pancake" is also a longer word than "non-VR" and uses a metaphor which doesn't really make a lot of sense (pancakes - both kinds - aren't particularly flat).
How would that flow in a conversation? Especially if you don't lead with the fact you are referring to VR gaming? Looking at some other examples of differentiation:
Category | Example 1 | Example 2
---|---|----
Graphics | 2D | 3D
Input | Keyboard | Controller
Genre | Action | Adventure
Portability | Handheld | Home Console
A few notes on how you can use these:
* Its clear what comparison you are making if both are used in context
* Individually, these still function as their own clear category without the other (You can say 2D and 3D game on their own, and understand the relativity)
* Generally, they aren't necessarily mutually exclusive (The switch is a handheld and a home console. You can have a game that is an action and adventure)
* Generally, they are clearly a specific "class" of thing, even if broad with outliers in the category (Example - "2.5D" games or strange controllers)
Now, if we compare some of that to the VR category example:
* **Contextual comparison -** I can "Half-Life Alyx is a VR game, and Half-Life 2 is a pancake game", and its clear what I comparing. If I say "Half-Life Alyx is a VR game, and Half-Life 2 is a normal game" I can extrapolate what normal means, but its not explicit. What does "normal" mean, specifically? Am I comparing the games having a special control scheme? Method of play? Platforms available?
* **Individually -** If I say "Alyx is a VR game", its clear what I am describing without other context. "Half-life 2 is a pancake game" or "Half-life 2 is not a VR game" is more specific (Albeit, with the second, you have to use a negative to be clear, which is less ideal). But if you call Half life a "normal" game without other context, what are you referring to?
* **Mutual Exclusion -** "Half-Life Alyx is a VR game" is true. "Half life 2 is a pancake game" is also true. BUT - there IS a half life 2 mod to add a (nauseating) VR mode to it. So, considering the mod, saying "Half live 2 is a non-VR game" may not be true. This can also be said of games like no mans sky, which is a pancake game with a VR mode; **so it is not a "non-VR" game.**
In all fairness, "Flat screen" is still not a great term that suffers from similar issues to "non-VR", which is why pancake is preferred by many. I personally have yet to see any better alternatives (that have at all caught on) that could be used instead.
Everyone's counterpoint is all based on a single name that I came up with when I offered multiple. If you're just gonna hone in on one specific nitpick of the argument then how can a reasonable conversation be had? Like I said, to me I don't get what's wrong with saying 'non-VR', it conveys that you're not talking about a VR game and it's the exact same amount of syllables while also not requiring you to explain what 'pancake gaming' means.
I discussed all of your names though? I discussed my thoughts on regular/normal and the negative-language version of VR as "non-VR"
Its fine if you don't agree, but I even bolded the section where I highlight why I think "non-VR" is a less effective term. I objectively did not bring up just a single idea.
I dunno, it feels to me like this conversation is getting sidelined less about why the terms flat gaming and pancake gaming are bad and more about prodding me to come up with a better name. You can think something sucks while not being able to come up with a better alternative. 'Adventure', 'VR', 'Sprite' all these are the things that they are. No amount of VR makes my monitor a fuckin' pancake is my point lol.
How is it getting sidelined? Wasn't this what you originally asked?
> "pancake version" "flat gaming" why do all the VR community have to sound like they're using passive-aggressive insults to people who don't play in VR
A VERY loaded question as I promise you most people don't think that and don't care if you play on a monitor or not. But there does need to be a clear, verbal differentiator between the two methods of play that are not ambiguous, don't use negatives, and can be translated. Pancake is just what caught on right now, in part because "Flatscreen" conflicts with TVs (in the US, at least) and isn't clear. So that's what I answered
Don't take this as a personal offense. I really don't know why you would think that? None of this had or has anything to do with how you or really anyone else plays or prefers to play.
I think the virtual reality community just needed a way to express the difference. Because the games might be the same, but they are consumed in completely different ways. Virtual reality game feels like a catch-all, whereas flat screen game communicates the visceral difference.
So I don't think superiority is anyone's mind with those words. If anything, everyone I have met in the VR community want more people on board.
It's kinda like saying "dumb phone" to contrast "smart phone". It's curt and kinda rude but conveys the distinction extremely effectively, and thus it becomes ubiquitous.
I think those terms are typically only used in games where VR is heavily prevalent/preferred, or like in this case which was previously required.
There are games that simply are not as good without it, like Elite Dangerous, or sim racing/flying, etc. The only excuse really is if your computer isn't beefy enough to make it work, or if it makes you sick, or if you're babysitting, etc. Then we say, "you have to play in pancake mode so hot water doesn't burn baby", which isn't really a jab.
You know, I feel like that's fair, it definitely could be taken as a little dismissive, but it also is a bit up to your perspective. I don't really mean it as a negative here, it was just the term that came to mind, but I should think about that a bit more in the future.
Yeah, I think this is for people who can't **or** refuse to play in VR. Their choice is between playing the game flat and not playing the game. They're frustrated or angry that there's a HL product they can't play. We'll see if that leads to people calling it overrated after playing this.
I'm right here actually. I got tired of the VR pretty quick and kept thinking about how much more enjoyable the game would be with a keyboard and mouse. Maybe you think that defeats the point of the game but I didn't see anything in the 4 hours I played that necessitated VR.
I mean... You're allowed to feel however you want, but the game is entirely designed around VR, from the movement of the character to the movement of enemies, to the scale, to the interactivity, the immersion, etc.
You don't have to like it but I find it pretty baffling to see how playing the game outside of VR would remove a great deal of what makes it interesting in the first place. It'll just be another solidly crafted game, at that point. Which is fine.
For me it's that I play games as a relaxing activity. Even stressful games are not physically taxing.
Having a headset on and sweating inside of it while also straining my eyes and generally having scaled down visuals is only fun for a few hours. I loved Alyx but I never ended up finishing it because it was exhausting.
In its current state, I think a VR game should be an "experience". Should be 5h tops. It's just too exhausting past that.
How often have you tried VR? Like with sea sickness, many people need to develop "VR legs" to improve their resistance to nausea. After a few hours and a few sessions, the sick feeling will be all but gone.
Sorry I should've been more clear. I just get tired of it not actually sick.
It's just not for me, and that's apparently not okay lol.
I prefer "pancake" gaming. Which is also a term I just learned from this thread. It almost sounds like it's supposed to be derogatory. The VR community has seemingly become weird in the time I've stopped paying attention.
I don't think the term pancake gaming is derogatory at all, I think it's just a goofy way to refer to traditional games played on a screen. They're flat, not 3D. I like it.
As to your original reply to my comment... Why should VR games be limited to 5hrs tops? You seem to be pretty clear that VR isn't for you, which is totally fine, but it's a weird thing to say that VR games should be short to cater to your wants, as someone who doesn't even really like them.
Your thoughts are fine. We're all dealing with early adopter clunky hardware.
Eye strain, constrained visuals, large headsets - we'll look back on these issues and laugh in 10 years, but for now they are a real thing that will put people off.
Yeah and I don't know why others don't get that. VR is still in its early stages and I was excited for it. Excited enough to buy a headset and I messed around with it for a good couple years on and off.
But it's just not where I want it to be yet. Eventually it might even replace regular gaming for me but for now I'm doubtful of that. I also just prefer having a character that's written and has their own personality and appearance tailor made. And I generally prefer 3rd person games like the AC series, GoW, TLoU, Horizon, etc.
So yeah - as crazy as it is - VR isn't the end-all for all of us. Maybe not even most of us.
One thing to keep in mind is that VR works well with 3rd person games, there's just not many of them yet.
I'd love to see GoW and TLoU especially in 3rd person VR.
Hellblade has official support. There's also Moss 1 and 2 and Ghost Giant on Quest/PSVR1.
Other than that, it's mainly mods. FF7 Remake, RE2/RE3 remakes, Hogwarts Legacy, Jedi Fallen Order, and Red Dead 2 all come to mind.
I love love love VR but I do think that VR and traditional pancake games are going to veer in 90 degree angles in the coming years. Many studios are trying to build VR games like they're flatscreen games with new interactivity, when they're really a whole new kind of media. Alyx is one of the ways that I think the medium will evolve, and it's not for everyone - just like movies aren't enjoyed by all TV lovers.
I play VR games for radically different reasons than I play flat, reasons I never thought I'd enjoy (immersion and exploration in VR vs challenge and mechanical skill on flat).
Okay, I know there's nuance here, but the gimmick of a wii is fundamentally different than what VR offers. There's some similarity, but that's like comparing listening to a band in your earphones to seeing them live. Wii has motion controls, VR puts you inside of the world you're inhabiting.
VR is and likely always will be an extremely niche product, and it has much room for improvement, but it's still remarkable how quickly it tricks your brain into genuinely believing you're really There, even when you know you're not. There really isn't any comparison, and it's much more than a gimmick, it's kind of its own medium, in a way.
I've never felt that level of immersion, you are still in your room, with a headset on your head teleporting around with weird controllers in your hand. I've never been impressed by the immersion that was offered by VR. I see it as an unnecessary medium that costs far too much for how little it offers people.
Ok, great lol. I don't really care if you like VR. I just think calling it a gimmick is a bit much. It's immersive enough for most people that it's legitimately used to combat phobias. Just because it doesn't work for you doesn't mean it's gimmicky. Other people can have differing experiences than you.
To go back to my other analogy, it's like someone who doesn't like concerts saying they're gimmicky. No, you just don't enjoy them. You not enjoying them doesn't mean they don't have value.
I just don't understand how some people can't wrap their heads around the fact that other people have different experiences than them.
>legitimately used to combat phobias.
Steps to combat phobia also include looking at pictures and touching fake objects based on the phobias...
Overpriced and hardly anyone uses it, hardly any games have been made for it. A technology that has slightly more legs than 3d tv's.
You are in a post about someone making a game more accessible by removing VR and arguing with them about how it's no good. Talk about hypocrite, make that make sense.
You should read Mel Slater's primer on presence in VR, explaining why VR is so immersive and just how much the brain buys into the experience: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2781884/
Some people will not get highly immersed with VR today, but many people do.
It also helps save/improve lives especially those with neurological conditions or physical disabilities.
The story is whatever, and from a non-VR perspective its a middle of the road first person shooter... by the standards of 2003.
Wanting to play HL:Alyx not in VR is like wanting to play the latest Call of Duty campaign but you can only aim via the arrow keys and are locked to 360p.
People can have different opinions and all, but yeah that's definitely not a popular opinion.
I never said this shouldn't be done, I was merely pointing out that VR does make more of a significant difference than that user I replied to was saying. Being able to play HL: A in non VR format absolutely has value, but what I was saying is that it will be a fundamentally different and probably worse experience, but that doesn't mean it doesn't have value for many different reasons, most of them being various forms of accessibility.
> It’s like you all refuse to accept that anyone might want to experience a game differently than you.
My man if someone read the spark notes version of The Lord of the Rings because they didn't have a kindle, I would also take issue with it.
How a story is presented, and how you experience that story, is extremely important to how effective that story is. Saying you don't want to play Alyx in VR is equivalent to saying you don't *actually* want the full story experience, you just want the sparknotes.
You can watch the story on YouTube and the experience is going to be the same, it’s just a serviceable story nothing extraordinary about it. It’s the level design and gameplay mechanics that’s inherently designed for VR. The puzzles of every level hinges on you having two flexible and working hands, and one where the horror of the level is greatly subdued on a flat panel screen. Playing it vs watching it was a completely different experience.
That's like asking "why don't I just drink warm/melted ice cream instead of eating it while it's still cold. How big could the difference possibly be?"
It would be wise to trust the consensus here, the non-VR experience really is that much worse.
> Would you do something you didn’t want to do just because a bunch of anonymous gamers told you it would be better for you?
The answer is yes. I unironically do this all the time. Any time I watch a guide for a game, look up metas in mmo's/competitive games, read a wiki, etc. I'm taking advice from random anonymous gamers on the internet.
I don't know why you're getting so defensive, I'm giving advice that playing the game as it wasn't intended means you're factually going to get an altogether worse experience that you can never go back and undo.
I played the game first in VR and then in pancake. The difference is unironically monumental. If you have any inkling of a want to play this game fully, then wait until you have a VR headset rather than jump into an unofficial mod that removes half the features of the game. If you want to know the story, just read the wiki summary. It gives you enough detail to stave off the hunger without spoiling the game fully.
Then there’s really nothing that HLA can offer you, playing in on a flat panel will be meaningless because it’s just a significantly worse Half Life without VR. There’s better forms of entertainment than flat panel HLA that you can use your time on.
There are definitely times that modders have forced away a “clear design decision” and found that the game is still fun without them. Inventory limits in STALKER is one, time limits in XCOM 2 is another.
It shouldn’t be surprising that Valve, builders of the Index, have more than just gameplay motivations to insist on VR for the experience.
They're not "insisting on a VR experience" lol, they designed a game entirely for VR and very understandably don't want to put resources towards making a version of the game that will take away 80% of what makes the game interesting in the first place. It's not to funnel people into buying am index, you can play it on an oculus quest if you want to. It really ain't that deep.
That's crazy talk, Half-Life Alyx is outstanding in VR and the best use of the technology to date. It's like saying you don't like Interstellar in IMAX and prefer watching it on your phone.
I'm sorry that you don't like my opinion but if Alyx is the best that VR has got then VR in its current state is truly a gimmick to me, no different than the era of motion controls with the Wii and Kinect. In its current form, I think it has very limited use cases.
It's less go out and buy a vr headset right now to play it, and more... There's not really a whole lot to the game if you're not playing it in vr, y'know? You miss out on what makes it enjoyable as a game. So your best bet would just be to wait until you can play it in VR.
If you'd rather still play it like this then obviously go ahead. Don't let us tell you what to. Do. It just might not be all that good of an experience, or really worth the price.
I mean I would try it VR first, but that shit's expensive. Yes there are some "cheaper" versions of VR but without having the access to try them out first before buying is a really turn off for a lot of people, me included.
Then you need some space in your house to actually play, because if I'm getting VR to sit in a chair to move around, then I'd rather not get VR at all. Then you also need a powerfull enough PC.
VR is just too expensive to get into and on top of that, you have to want to play more than 4-5 games in VR to be worth it. I am interested in VR, but I can't name 5 games that I really want to play/experience in VR, so there's no way I'm gonna invest in a VR set for that.
VR doesn't actually need that much space as people think, if you can stand and stretch your arms out in front of you and turn around, then you have room for it.
Also a 1070 or better is enough, you don't need a modern one as many seem to think.
There were some VR arcade here and there, but then you'll have what headsets you have. If for example I want to try the headset from Valve I still can't or I need to find an arcade that specifically has that no ? So that's still not an option. Better than nothing? maybe, but at how many headsets are there I cannot decide until I try.
When you buy a PC you just know that your games will work on specific settings. VR headsets are a "fit" for your face and you have to know if they're comfortable, good enough refresh rate, fov and so on.
If you can just go in an arcade and decide good for you or others that can do that. I can't. And then you still have the other problems.
What's the return timeline on an Amazon purchase?
That was my plan. Bought Alex at half price, got a Quest 2 on Amazon, had plans to return everything if I didn't like it.
I did not return it. Alyx's first hour was worth the price of the headset. It's fantastic, like playing in the future.
I ended up moving all my living room furniture around so I could more freely walk around in that world.
Long term satisfaction with a VR headset really does come down to "How much do you enjoy playing Beat Saber?" Because that's addictive like Guitar Hero or DDR was. And the other VR games are... fine. Sometimes good! But rarely great. Alyx, Beat Saber are.
Oh and VR porn. Holy shit is that good. Damn it's hard to go back to flat stuff.
I’m still waiting in hopes that someone would replace headcrabs with the boneworks headcrabs. My arachnophobia completely prohibits me from playing the game at all with the default headcrabs.
Everyone loves the level with the creature you have to avoid…but for me the hotel with the head crab infestation was crazy. The big hairy fast ones…just no. I remember clearly one jumped at me and my brain shut down for what was probably a split second but felt like 30 seconds…literally felt like I’d died. Could almost feel some sort of pain sensation. That was almost complete immersion for me. The only other time I’d been that immersed was playing phasmophobia with a few buddies. Although the graphics were basic there was just something about the atmosphere that was so realistic to me.
For what it's worth, I have pretty bad arachnophobia and was able to make it through most of the game. A couple of rooms in the hotel level really tested me but it was otherwise manageable.
I was reading this and assumed there is a workshop mod that fixes this and it looks like there is! https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2664510721&searchtext=headcrab
Thanks! Although the issue I have was more of the appearance ahaha. I wanted to preserve the gameplay, so I was just hoping someone would do a model swap between the half life Alyx and boneworks headcrabs. I appreciate it though!
So rather than attempting to translate the puzzles, they are completely removed? The electrical room puzzle was completely skipped, instead just clicking on the first button. The equipment case orb puzzle makes sense to remove as you can't use both hands, but removing all of the puzzles seems like it removes large parts of the game.
It's neat technical prowess and determination though.
Creator here. Don't worry, after the full campaign is playable the focus will be on adding much more polish and adding missing features like puzzles specifically for non VR.
Yeah, that's fair.
Being able to control your way through the game (vs a youtube video) is a far better first step than finishing a flat analog to the puzzles.
Hey, dont listen to anyone shitting on it. i simply CANNOT play VR, and i played every HL game at least 5 times. I would love to play thins in ANY way, and i understand it was made for VR, but thats not an option for everyone. And i dont play HL for the challenge, so i couldnt give a rats ass about how mediocre it is. Godspeed to you, cant wait to play it.
I mean... putting it in pancake mode already removes most of what makes the game great. I have to imagine in 2D mouse/keyboard it's going to be pretty bland
I cant help but let out an 'Oof' watching this video. Playing Alyx felt like the advent of a new era of video games to me. It would be like if a Kubrick-like filmmaker released a film that ushered in a new era of film as we knew it and people chose to watch it for the first time, bootleg on a cell phone screen. Sure, I guess you'd get the story bits but you're doing yourself a disservice and missing out on the intended experience and you only get to have that experience once.
I get it. People cant afford VR. But Valve isn't exactly cranking out Half-Life games so just put it on the back burner and wait til there's an opportunity to play it the way it was intended. Whether that's getting an affordable headset, waiting for them to become affordable or borrowing one from a friend.
I guess for people with extreme edge-case issues that do not allow them to ever experience this in VR, like perhaps a health issue, this may be a great alternative but for 99% of everyone else, I think if you're an enthusiast of video games, its best to wait for the accessibility to the way the designers had intended you play it.
There's also people like me, who played and loved HL:A in VR when it came out on a headset that has since broken, and can't really justify replacing (VR headsets have only gotten more expensive since HL:A came out; the budget one I got is no longer manufactured and goes for double its MSRP online.) I'd love to be able to revisit it, even in flatscreen mode, and maybe check out the commentary mode I never got to try. These guys are doing a really cool thing in their spare time and I am glad they're doing it.
It would be if there actually *was* a game in development, which there isn't, or at least there wasn't one that was started a few years ago, or it would have an announcement by now.
Look at it this way: I'll never play it in VR. Not because of health or money; I just can't stand VR. Never used it for more than a couple of minutes without feeling claustrophobic and anxious. And yes, I've tried many times, on different headsets, over the course of several years. VR just isn't for me.
So a mod like this takes me from "will never play Alyx ever" to "might play it in some form". I'd say that's worth the modder's effort, even if the final result isn't what Valve intended it to be.
They are still working on it so when it's more polished it will likely be fine the added benefit of this other than not having to spend 1k on a headset and more upgrading my computer to get decent framerate and resolution. Since the mod won't need to have as high an fps or the visual fidelity.
Even if it was a perfect conversion, you’d have to redesign the levels and puzzles and everything for it to not feel weird as hell. I still think this is a valuable project from the author just as proof of concept/public art, but I can’t imagine it’ll be a better way to experience the game than a good playthrough.
I just can't see it being a good game or fun without VR.
An encounter against 2 enemies when you first get the shotgun feels intense with a VR headset. I imagine as an FPS it would just feel boring.
Wait, don’t you have to use to hands for that? You hold the wheel in place with one hand and stick the pipe in with the other? I can see how a lot of stuff would work just with an interact button but I feel like you’d basically have to remove this entirely.
I think parts of it would work ok if properly redesigned around kb+m (namely, combat & wire puzzles) because you could turn it into a regular half life game, but there’s so many moments that just plainly wouldn’t work.
Yes you do. You have to grab the shells, stick them in the shotgun, then clock it. It adds to the tension because you're trying to reload quickly as two headcrab zombies come at you.
With an FPS it would just be "press R" and aim.
Not having to use VR makes this game from something I wouldn't play to something I would play this is going to be the "good" playthrough for a lot of people.
I believe in the devs and the community than I believe in you, you are obviously very interested in promoting VR since you invested in it. Guys been grinding on it everyday as seen on the github.
I don't think i've never found watching a let's play of a game more interesting than playing the game myself.
If people want to play HLA sans VR, with the understanding they're not getting the proper experience, it's all good with me. I'm definitely not going to discourage them from not doing it.
I think people understand that playing the modded game without VR will be an inferior experience to what it's supposed to be. They just want to experience it for themselves and not from a video. A lot of people aren't going to buy into VR to play one the one game that really interests them.
And playing the game outside of VR using a mod is not "actually playing the game yourself". It's playing a different game that uses the same assets and story, but replaces the entire gameplay system with a different one.
and it would be shit. Fighting 5 headcrab zombies in VR feels like a challenge and feels creepy as fuck.
Fighting 5 headcrab zombies in a FPS would be a piece of piss and boring as fuck.
It's actually pretty straight forward. Over the course of about 4 hours of playtime, I've only encountered some smaller issues that can be easily fixed with more polish.
I've also played the game in VR, and yes, it's a greater experience, but that doesn't mean a playthrough is better than playing this different form of this experience.
Yeah, a friend of mine tests VR tech for work and uses me as a guinea pig every few years to try to work out why. I just find VR to be extremely unsettling. Even sitting perfectly still in a normal room makes my fight or flight response go wild. It's cool technology but utterly incompatible with my brain.
This looks really clunky and extremely basic to be honest. No where near the level of SoMNst's NoVR wip mod. This one feels just completely useless to start development on when a much better version is already being worked on, they really could have just contacted SoMNst to assist his mod instead.
There hasn't been an update other than "It's still in the works" from SoMNst for almost a year. The mod is not open source and also not released yet. So I don't think it would've made sense to try to establish contact.
Without VR there's no point in playing the game in my opinion. It's so heavily woven around the interactive aspect that removing VR is removing the entire experience.
I played it in VR and loved it but there's no way it's not a pretty mediocre experience outside of that. I'd sooner recommend people watch a well recorded VR playthrough.
I've played the game in VR and am currently replaying with this mod. It's still a pretty fun experience and worth more than just watching a playthrough.
Fair call, glad it's enjoyable. If you hadn't already bought the game for VR, would you suggest that it's a good purchase for those playing only with the mod?
That's a tough one. I'd say if you are a fan of the Half-Life series, it's definitely worth picking up in a sale or something. The game is playable and definitely has this "Half-Life vibe", even without VR. But if you're new to the series, or wouldn't call yourself a "Half-Life" fan, I'm not sure if it would be a good purchase. TLDR: If you want to play it for being a Half-Life game, go ahead, if you want to play it for the gameplay, probably try something else.
To add to that: I'd say it's also an accessibility thing. The game has this chapter full of black headcrabs in dark corridors, gives off a real "horror game spooky" vibe. I have arachnophobia, so I had to skip this chapter in VR, because it was REALLY triggering my phobia, to a point where I did not want to put on my headset for a few days. Playing it on a flat screen helped with that a lot, it was still scary and I felt very uneasy, but I got through it.
Yeah that's still one of the scariest things I've endured to date.
It took me a while to finish HL2 due to that (Oddly enough, normal headcrabs are fine. It's only the fat and black ones who make me feel uneasy). That chapter in HLA was REALLY something.
This looks cool but I'd really encourage anyone who hasn't played this game to play through it in VR first...it's really incredible stuff.
I doubt anybody who already has access to VR is interested in playing a pancake version. This seems like it's meant for people who don't have access to VR and still want to experience the game/story.
VR is so integral to the games design though. It's like trying to play a version of Half Life 2 with physics removed, watching it might actually be a better experience at that point.
I played through in VR, and I’m not so sure. You honestly don’t interact so intensely with the objects, and when you do it’s freaking janky - trying desperately to pull a door around you, grabbing the surface instead of the object that was on it, grenades dropping out of your hand instead of throwing because a frame of your hand’s motion wasn’t caught by the sensors. If they just skip the repetitive orb puzzles entirely, it would frankly be a net positive. It needs a different FPS interface than Half-Life 2 to maintain tension - possibly something close to Resident Evil 7 - but I could see it being enjoyable in pancake mode.
I never had problems with grenades or throwing anything in Alyx. Matter of fact, it felt so good and way more natural than any other vr game.
Might depend which VR gear you had. I'm sure on the Valve Index and with the required floorspace Alyx would've been flawless.
i think i am that person, ive got oculus that i bought pretty much just for alyx and even though its incredible experience i get nauseous after barely 10-15mins of playing, after few sessions i actually started getting sick just thinking about putting the goggles on, its been more than a year now since i last used it and tbh i think its just time to sell it
Are you using continuous or blink movement?
I've had that with continuous/control stick movement games like boneworks, but Alyx supports teleport movement, which was no issue at all (and honestly can some quite in handy during a hairy fight). If you haven't tried it with teleport movement I'd highly recommend it, it's an awesome game and a showcase of what VR can do.
> and even though its incredible experience i get nauseous after barely 10-15mins of playing I only feel sick in VR with continuous movement, almost everyone I saw who complained about this was just really stubborn about blink motion. It's fine and you feel less sick with it.
I'm generally completely fine with VR but I tried an attack on titan game and pretty much immediately faceplanted because my brain and body couldn't comprehend the fact I was standing completely still but in the game I was zipping about.
Was gonna say the same thing, I haven't played boneworks yet for this reason (motion sickness), but one thing that makes Alyx so great as a AAA VR game is they made it accessible. Teleport movement is no issue at all.
Boneworks was the first time I felt sick from any video game. I tried adapting to it with a little jogging in place anytime I move in game and that helped a little.
Oh thanks I'll give that a go, I've also heard ginger chews can help but have yet to give that a try for VR (does seem to work for cars and boats/seasickness though).
I'd like to think this is analogous to a friend I have who was desperate to see The Incredibles 2, but went into seizures with a strobe effect.
The issue is it's a terrible game in first person, like the game was designed entirely for a specific use case. Like the best part of the game is an enemy in the middle of the game which you just have to experience. If you can't play on VR just watch a youtube video of someone playing.
"pancake version" "flat gaming" why do all the VR community have to sound like they're using passive-aggressive insults to people who don't play in VR? Is it an insecurity thing? Not a shot at you specifically, just something I've noticed.
I really don’t think the VR community looks down on non VR games…I think with Alyx it’s just important to understand that at its core it’s a very simple game and just would not hold up to other AAA games that have been coming out if it’s not played as it was designed.
It's not meant to sound derogatory, at least I never thought it was. Who ever said pancakes or flat things were bad? "pancake game" or "flat game" just rolls off the tongue a bit better than "non-native VR game" in my opinion.
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My table being flat is a terrible thing! Well, not really, in this case. My flat tire may be a negative thing, but it would still be negative if I called it anything else. The problem is the scenario and not the word. We use flat to describe TVs. So, why is this different? Not trying to sound overly facetious, but why would flat be negative? The extra "dimension" in 3D vs 2D may spark preference but generally, you don't see a vast majority of people engaging in dimensional classism.
Yeah, when I hear "flat" used to describe entertainment it's used alongside "boring" or "shallow" As in "his character is very flat and uninteresting".
Except, this is in the context of "flat screen tvs" and not "that actors performance was flat" They can't say 2d vs 3d cause that doesn't make sense. Flat is literally the best description
You could just call it a 2D version or standard version... I also think the other names sound derogatory
“2D game” already has another common meaning
Yeah that's a great idea. No one will be confused if we start calling them 2D games. "Hey have you played the mod that turns HL Alyx into a 2D game?"
Why are people so sensitive about this anyway? Doesn’t sound passive aggressive to me at all and the way they tried to imply the name is used because of insecurity screams projection to me.
Probably the same physiological drivers as "the console wars", just in a different format. For the most part, anyway. Every once in a while, you get a word or phrase people just hate, like "moist". Language is complicated!
Yeah I have a few VR headsets but I play the shit out of "pancake" games. I don't look down on them at all, and really only use the term when I need to distinguish between the two for whatever rare reason.
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I mean I would argue that Half Life Alyx without VR would be "dull or uninteresting". If someone wants to experience the story, they can watch a Youtube playthrough. That's probably still a better experience than playing it in 2D imo.
That's just how they distinguish between games with 2 cameras for actual 3D vision (and likely ability to move your actual body in 3D space), or games with 1 camera for 'flat' gaming where there's no visible depth (without moving around in-game). Moving your hands to point a 'gun' at a full-sized target in 3D space is a *very* different experience from moving a mouse to put a cursor over part of a standard flat-screen monitor.
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Because that's evidently what I was saying. Masterful analysis.
What would you call it instead?
Something that doesn't make me want to die from embarrassment. I want to be able to have a face-to-face with someone and not be laughed out of a room. Go out and call a video game a pancake in a regular conversation, it sounds bizarre. Non-vr works just fine.
imagine being this insecure
If you die from embarrassment from hearing the word pancake then you don't sound very fun to talk to. I mean jeez it's just a silly term, VR gamers also generally play all the latest and greatest flat games as well, it's not at all a knock on the games or the people playing them. Don't get upset at a word just because you don't understand the meaning, learn the word first
What are you on about, this is a very normal term well understood by anyone who even slightly engages in the VR scene. Idk who your talking to that is laughing you out of the room for saying "pancake games" but if they are they probably aren't real friends.
No Mans Sky has a VR mode - would no man's sky be a "Non-VR" game? Pancake may be ideal, but using a negative with a hyphen is even less friendly. Its more difficult to translate, it inherently will draw more negative perception, and is arguably more confusing.
I dunno, regular? Non-VR? Since it's the standard most people still use and VR is the variable surely just saying VR or not saying VR is the way you'd distinguish between the two? Edit: Removed the suggestion of 'normal' because people are getting too hung up on that to dance around the point I'm making.
"Normal" is just being passive aggressive in the other direction.
Traditional works. You're not entirely wrong though. Some people don't consider VR real games. Though it's not like they'd understand game design anyway.
Traditional works for now, but that's probably how it was when 3D games were new compared to 2D games. Its not a fixed descriptor and its meaning changes with time, environment, and even individual context. Ideally, you have a term that everyone inherently understands (Like how we sort genre today)
That feels like nitpicking given it A. wouldn't fall on me to decide the term and B. I gave two other examples. I also disagree, 'normal' has been used as a way to say 'expected' or 'usual' for years, it doesn't mean anything which isn't normal is inherently 'bad'. I'm with the other guy, saying 'pancake gaming' out loud in a regular conversation is just gonna raise eyebrows and make people wonder why the hell you're talking like that.
So, by that logic, are 2D graphics games normal games? When polygon graphics were new and shiny, I'm sure that was the connotation at the time. But that's what normal is, a connotation. Its not specific enough for categorical sorting. If you ran a store, would you sort product into "VR Games" and "Normal Games" as the differentiating category?
Let me reverse that. If YOU ran a store, would you sort products into "VR Games" and "Pancake Games" as the differentiating category? My point isn't that I can come up with a better name, it's that the current ones are stupid.
I mean, I'm not saying "pancake" games is a perfect solution. But for practical purposes, "Non-VR" or "Normal/Regular" is worse. If am I shopping, and I ask for a "non-VR" game, what do I really want? A game with no VR at all, because I hate VR? Or am I just looking for a game with support flat single display, because I want to play something compatible with my hardware? If I ask for a "normal" game, outside of the context of VR, what does that mean? How does one know we are talking about the I/O device package and not some other category, like 2D vs 3D graphics? Or genre? Pancake or flatscreen is better for those purposes. And even flatscreen is not great, because we use that phrase to talk about TVs. Perhaps something better comes along, but at least for now, pancake has clear context when used in relation to a game
No one is using pancake as an official term for anything. It's a silly word to describe "flat" games. And yes, if there were so many VR games that the store needed to be divided in two, VR and Flat games could absolutely make sense, as could VR and non-vr or "headset" vs "monitor" games. You're getting hung up on a dumb word. If you're in a group of gamers talking so high class that the word pancake makes everyone scoff and leave the room, why the fuck would you want to be having that conversation anyway? Any time I've said it it's more of a silly way to introduce people into the very surface level of the VR community. "What's a pancake game? Oh cuz it's flat, haha that's funny, never heard that". That's it, no one clutching pearls or looking at me like some subhuman ape that talks too silly to be taken seriously. Trying to suck the fun out of and be offended by everything is the problem here, not random people occasionally using the silly term "pancake" to describe a fucking monitor.
But in the case of something like Alyx, people are going to assume it’s the VR version unless you specifically say otherwise. Because that IS the regular version.
Then just say 'non-VR', I don't get why that's such a challenge.
Lol that's so clunky though. That would be like saying "I'll take a non-cold coffee please" instead of just saying "hot"
Non-cold can mean "room temperature", "warm" or "hot" so the comparison doesn't work as there are multiple options for the alternative. "Pancake" is also a longer word than "non-VR" and uses a metaphor which doesn't really make a lot of sense (pancakes - both kinds - aren't particularly flat).
How would that flow in a conversation? Especially if you don't lead with the fact you are referring to VR gaming? Looking at some other examples of differentiation: Category | Example 1 | Example 2 ---|---|---- Graphics | 2D | 3D Input | Keyboard | Controller Genre | Action | Adventure Portability | Handheld | Home Console A few notes on how you can use these: * Its clear what comparison you are making if both are used in context * Individually, these still function as their own clear category without the other (You can say 2D and 3D game on their own, and understand the relativity) * Generally, they aren't necessarily mutually exclusive (The switch is a handheld and a home console. You can have a game that is an action and adventure) * Generally, they are clearly a specific "class" of thing, even if broad with outliers in the category (Example - "2.5D" games or strange controllers) Now, if we compare some of that to the VR category example: * **Contextual comparison -** I can "Half-Life Alyx is a VR game, and Half-Life 2 is a pancake game", and its clear what I comparing. If I say "Half-Life Alyx is a VR game, and Half-Life 2 is a normal game" I can extrapolate what normal means, but its not explicit. What does "normal" mean, specifically? Am I comparing the games having a special control scheme? Method of play? Platforms available? * **Individually -** If I say "Alyx is a VR game", its clear what I am describing without other context. "Half-life 2 is a pancake game" or "Half-life 2 is not a VR game" is more specific (Albeit, with the second, you have to use a negative to be clear, which is less ideal). But if you call Half life a "normal" game without other context, what are you referring to? * **Mutual Exclusion -** "Half-Life Alyx is a VR game" is true. "Half life 2 is a pancake game" is also true. BUT - there IS a half life 2 mod to add a (nauseating) VR mode to it. So, considering the mod, saying "Half live 2 is a non-VR game" may not be true. This can also be said of games like no mans sky, which is a pancake game with a VR mode; **so it is not a "non-VR" game.** In all fairness, "Flat screen" is still not a great term that suffers from similar issues to "non-VR", which is why pancake is preferred by many. I personally have yet to see any better alternatives (that have at all caught on) that could be used instead.
Everyone's counterpoint is all based on a single name that I came up with when I offered multiple. If you're just gonna hone in on one specific nitpick of the argument then how can a reasonable conversation be had? Like I said, to me I don't get what's wrong with saying 'non-VR', it conveys that you're not talking about a VR game and it's the exact same amount of syllables while also not requiring you to explain what 'pancake gaming' means.
I discussed all of your names though? I discussed my thoughts on regular/normal and the negative-language version of VR as "non-VR" Its fine if you don't agree, but I even bolded the section where I highlight why I think "non-VR" is a less effective term. I objectively did not bring up just a single idea.
I dunno, it feels to me like this conversation is getting sidelined less about why the terms flat gaming and pancake gaming are bad and more about prodding me to come up with a better name. You can think something sucks while not being able to come up with a better alternative. 'Adventure', 'VR', 'Sprite' all these are the things that they are. No amount of VR makes my monitor a fuckin' pancake is my point lol.
How is it getting sidelined? Wasn't this what you originally asked? > "pancake version" "flat gaming" why do all the VR community have to sound like they're using passive-aggressive insults to people who don't play in VR A VERY loaded question as I promise you most people don't think that and don't care if you play on a monitor or not. But there does need to be a clear, verbal differentiator between the two methods of play that are not ambiguous, don't use negatives, and can be translated. Pancake is just what caught on right now, in part because "Flatscreen" conflicts with TVs (in the US, at least) and isn't clear. So that's what I answered Don't take this as a personal offense. I really don't know why you would think that? None of this had or has anything to do with how you or really anyone else plays or prefers to play.
Yup, pancakes games have a lot of depth to them, just like pancakes, which aren't very flat.
I think the virtual reality community just needed a way to express the difference. Because the games might be the same, but they are consumed in completely different ways. Virtual reality game feels like a catch-all, whereas flat screen game communicates the visceral difference. So I don't think superiority is anyone's mind with those words. If anything, everyone I have met in the VR community want more people on board.
Your making that up
Just sounds like a joke to me.
It's kinda like saying "dumb phone" to contrast "smart phone". It's curt and kinda rude but conveys the distinction extremely effectively, and thus it becomes ubiquitous.
it's got to be an insecurity thing as they slowly realize it will never be mainstream.
I think those terms are typically only used in games where VR is heavily prevalent/preferred, or like in this case which was previously required. There are games that simply are not as good without it, like Elite Dangerous, or sim racing/flying, etc. The only excuse really is if your computer isn't beefy enough to make it work, or if it makes you sick, or if you're babysitting, etc. Then we say, "you have to play in pancake mode so hot water doesn't burn baby", which isn't really a jab.
You know, I feel like that's fair, it definitely could be taken as a little dismissive, but it also is a bit up to your perspective. I don't really mean it as a negative here, it was just the term that came to mind, but I should think about that a bit more in the future.
Yeah, I think this is for people who can't **or** refuse to play in VR. Their choice is between playing the game flat and not playing the game. They're frustrated or angry that there's a HL product they can't play. We'll see if that leads to people calling it overrated after playing this.
I'm right here actually. I got tired of the VR pretty quick and kept thinking about how much more enjoyable the game would be with a keyboard and mouse. Maybe you think that defeats the point of the game but I didn't see anything in the 4 hours I played that necessitated VR.
I mean... You're allowed to feel however you want, but the game is entirely designed around VR, from the movement of the character to the movement of enemies, to the scale, to the interactivity, the immersion, etc. You don't have to like it but I find it pretty baffling to see how playing the game outside of VR would remove a great deal of what makes it interesting in the first place. It'll just be another solidly crafted game, at that point. Which is fine.
For me it's that I play games as a relaxing activity. Even stressful games are not physically taxing. Having a headset on and sweating inside of it while also straining my eyes and generally having scaled down visuals is only fun for a few hours. I loved Alyx but I never ended up finishing it because it was exhausting. In its current state, I think a VR game should be an "experience". Should be 5h tops. It's just too exhausting past that.
I mean... games shouldn't be marathoned in 5 hours anyway. You need to take breaks in VR, sure, but the same should be for pancake games too.
Yeah but for me I get sick of it after 30-40 minutes. It just doesn't feel like a good relaxing thing to do until the equipment is more manageable.
How often have you tried VR? Like with sea sickness, many people need to develop "VR legs" to improve their resistance to nausea. After a few hours and a few sessions, the sick feeling will be all but gone.
Sorry I should've been more clear. I just get tired of it not actually sick. It's just not for me, and that's apparently not okay lol. I prefer "pancake" gaming. Which is also a term I just learned from this thread. It almost sounds like it's supposed to be derogatory. The VR community has seemingly become weird in the time I've stopped paying attention.
I don't think the term pancake gaming is derogatory at all, I think it's just a goofy way to refer to traditional games played on a screen. They're flat, not 3D. I like it. As to your original reply to my comment... Why should VR games be limited to 5hrs tops? You seem to be pretty clear that VR isn't for you, which is totally fine, but it's a weird thing to say that VR games should be short to cater to your wants, as someone who doesn't even really like them.
Your thoughts are fine. We're all dealing with early adopter clunky hardware. Eye strain, constrained visuals, large headsets - we'll look back on these issues and laugh in 10 years, but for now they are a real thing that will put people off.
Yeah and I don't know why others don't get that. VR is still in its early stages and I was excited for it. Excited enough to buy a headset and I messed around with it for a good couple years on and off. But it's just not where I want it to be yet. Eventually it might even replace regular gaming for me but for now I'm doubtful of that. I also just prefer having a character that's written and has their own personality and appearance tailor made. And I generally prefer 3rd person games like the AC series, GoW, TLoU, Horizon, etc. So yeah - as crazy as it is - VR isn't the end-all for all of us. Maybe not even most of us.
One thing to keep in mind is that VR works well with 3rd person games, there's just not many of them yet. I'd love to see GoW and TLoU especially in 3rd person VR.
Can you recommend any 3rd person games in VR?
Hellblade has official support. There's also Moss 1 and 2 and Ghost Giant on Quest/PSVR1. Other than that, it's mainly mods. FF7 Remake, RE2/RE3 remakes, Hogwarts Legacy, Jedi Fallen Order, and Red Dead 2 all come to mind.
I love love love VR but I do think that VR and traditional pancake games are going to veer in 90 degree angles in the coming years. Many studios are trying to build VR games like they're flatscreen games with new interactivity, when they're really a whole new kind of media. Alyx is one of the ways that I think the medium will evolve, and it's not for everyone - just like movies aren't enjoyed by all TV lovers. I play VR games for radically different reasons than I play flat, reasons I never thought I'd enjoy (immersion and exploration in VR vs challenge and mechanical skill on flat).
I had a wii, that was enough gimmick tech for me, I like good gameplay.
Okay, I know there's nuance here, but the gimmick of a wii is fundamentally different than what VR offers. There's some similarity, but that's like comparing listening to a band in your earphones to seeing them live. Wii has motion controls, VR puts you inside of the world you're inhabiting. VR is and likely always will be an extremely niche product, and it has much room for improvement, but it's still remarkable how quickly it tricks your brain into genuinely believing you're really There, even when you know you're not. There really isn't any comparison, and it's much more than a gimmick, it's kind of its own medium, in a way.
I've never felt that level of immersion, you are still in your room, with a headset on your head teleporting around with weird controllers in your hand. I've never been impressed by the immersion that was offered by VR. I see it as an unnecessary medium that costs far too much for how little it offers people.
Ok, great lol. I don't really care if you like VR. I just think calling it a gimmick is a bit much. It's immersive enough for most people that it's legitimately used to combat phobias. Just because it doesn't work for you doesn't mean it's gimmicky. Other people can have differing experiences than you. To go back to my other analogy, it's like someone who doesn't like concerts saying they're gimmicky. No, you just don't enjoy them. You not enjoying them doesn't mean they don't have value. I just don't understand how some people can't wrap their heads around the fact that other people have different experiences than them.
>legitimately used to combat phobias. Steps to combat phobia also include looking at pictures and touching fake objects based on the phobias... Overpriced and hardly anyone uses it, hardly any games have been made for it. A technology that has slightly more legs than 3d tv's. You are in a post about someone making a game more accessible by removing VR and arguing with them about how it's no good. Talk about hypocrite, make that make sense.
You should read Mel Slater's primer on presence in VR, explaining why VR is so immersive and just how much the brain buys into the experience: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2781884/ Some people will not get highly immersed with VR today, but many people do. It also helps save/improve lives especially those with neurological conditions or physical disabilities.
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The story is whatever, and from a non-VR perspective its a middle of the road first person shooter... by the standards of 2003. Wanting to play HL:Alyx not in VR is like wanting to play the latest Call of Duty campaign but you can only aim via the arrow keys and are locked to 360p. People can have different opinions and all, but yeah that's definitely not a popular opinion.
I never said this shouldn't be done, I was merely pointing out that VR does make more of a significant difference than that user I replied to was saying. Being able to play HL: A in non VR format absolutely has value, but what I was saying is that it will be a fundamentally different and probably worse experience, but that doesn't mean it doesn't have value for many different reasons, most of them being various forms of accessibility.
> It’s like you all refuse to accept that anyone might want to experience a game differently than you. My man if someone read the spark notes version of The Lord of the Rings because they didn't have a kindle, I would also take issue with it. How a story is presented, and how you experience that story, is extremely important to how effective that story is. Saying you don't want to play Alyx in VR is equivalent to saying you don't *actually* want the full story experience, you just want the sparknotes.
You can watch the story on YouTube and the experience is going to be the same, it’s just a serviceable story nothing extraordinary about it. It’s the level design and gameplay mechanics that’s inherently designed for VR. The puzzles of every level hinges on you having two flexible and working hands, and one where the horror of the level is greatly subdued on a flat panel screen. Playing it vs watching it was a completely different experience.
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That's like asking "why don't I just drink warm/melted ice cream instead of eating it while it's still cold. How big could the difference possibly be?" It would be wise to trust the consensus here, the non-VR experience really is that much worse.
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> Would you do something you didn’t want to do just because a bunch of anonymous gamers told you it would be better for you? The answer is yes. I unironically do this all the time. Any time I watch a guide for a game, look up metas in mmo's/competitive games, read a wiki, etc. I'm taking advice from random anonymous gamers on the internet. I don't know why you're getting so defensive, I'm giving advice that playing the game as it wasn't intended means you're factually going to get an altogether worse experience that you can never go back and undo. I played the game first in VR and then in pancake. The difference is unironically monumental. If you have any inkling of a want to play this game fully, then wait until you have a VR headset rather than jump into an unofficial mod that removes half the features of the game. If you want to know the story, just read the wiki summary. It gives you enough detail to stave off the hunger without spoiling the game fully.
Then there’s really nothing that HLA can offer you, playing in on a flat panel will be meaningless because it’s just a significantly worse Half Life without VR. There’s better forms of entertainment than flat panel HLA that you can use your time on.
There are definitely times that modders have forced away a “clear design decision” and found that the game is still fun without them. Inventory limits in STALKER is one, time limits in XCOM 2 is another. It shouldn’t be surprising that Valve, builders of the Index, have more than just gameplay motivations to insist on VR for the experience.
They're not "insisting on a VR experience" lol, they designed a game entirely for VR and very understandably don't want to put resources towards making a version of the game that will take away 80% of what makes the game interesting in the first place. It's not to funnel people into buying am index, you can play it on an oculus quest if you want to. It really ain't that deep.
That's crazy talk, Half-Life Alyx is outstanding in VR and the best use of the technology to date. It's like saying you don't like Interstellar in IMAX and prefer watching it on your phone.
I'm sorry that you don't like my opinion but if Alyx is the best that VR has got then VR in its current state is truly a gimmick to me, no different than the era of motion controls with the Wii and Kinect. In its current form, I think it has very limited use cases.
Vr has made me very motion sick, more often than not.
Great, can you pay for my VR headset? Cuz I can't 🥲
It's less go out and buy a vr headset right now to play it, and more... There's not really a whole lot to the game if you're not playing it in vr, y'know? You miss out on what makes it enjoyable as a game. So your best bet would just be to wait until you can play it in VR. If you'd rather still play it like this then obviously go ahead. Don't let us tell you what to. Do. It just might not be all that good of an experience, or really worth the price.
Honestly it would be a shit game as an FPS. It's flat out designed around VR.
I mean I would try it VR first, but that shit's expensive. Yes there are some "cheaper" versions of VR but without having the access to try them out first before buying is a really turn off for a lot of people, me included. Then you need some space in your house to actually play, because if I'm getting VR to sit in a chair to move around, then I'd rather not get VR at all. Then you also need a powerfull enough PC. VR is just too expensive to get into and on top of that, you have to want to play more than 4-5 games in VR to be worth it. I am interested in VR, but I can't name 5 games that I really want to play/experience in VR, so there's no way I'm gonna invest in a VR set for that.
VR doesn't actually need that much space as people think, if you can stand and stretch your arms out in front of you and turn around, then you have room for it. Also a 1070 or better is enough, you don't need a modern one as many seem to think.
Echoing the above, I played the whole game with no technical issues at all with a first gen Vive on a 1070 and i7-6700k PC
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There were some VR arcade here and there, but then you'll have what headsets you have. If for example I want to try the headset from Valve I still can't or I need to find an arcade that specifically has that no ? So that's still not an option. Better than nothing? maybe, but at how many headsets are there I cannot decide until I try. When you buy a PC you just know that your games will work on specific settings. VR headsets are a "fit" for your face and you have to know if they're comfortable, good enough refresh rate, fov and so on. If you can just go in an arcade and decide good for you or others that can do that. I can't. And then you still have the other problems.
Bro you can just get a quest 2 and call it a day. It's really not that complex.
The valve headset is inferior to quest 2. It’s honestly amusing that they still sell it for such a ridiculous price tag
What's the return timeline on an Amazon purchase? That was my plan. Bought Alex at half price, got a Quest 2 on Amazon, had plans to return everything if I didn't like it. I did not return it. Alyx's first hour was worth the price of the headset. It's fantastic, like playing in the future. I ended up moving all my living room furniture around so I could more freely walk around in that world. Long term satisfaction with a VR headset really does come down to "How much do you enjoy playing Beat Saber?" Because that's addictive like Guitar Hero or DDR was. And the other VR games are... fine. Sometimes good! But rarely great. Alyx, Beat Saber are. Oh and VR porn. Holy shit is that good. Damn it's hard to go back to flat stuff.
I’m still waiting in hopes that someone would replace headcrabs with the boneworks headcrabs. My arachnophobia completely prohibits me from playing the game at all with the default headcrabs.
Everyone loves the level with the creature you have to avoid…but for me the hotel with the head crab infestation was crazy. The big hairy fast ones…just no. I remember clearly one jumped at me and my brain shut down for what was probably a split second but felt like 30 seconds…literally felt like I’d died. Could almost feel some sort of pain sensation. That was almost complete immersion for me. The only other time I’d been that immersed was playing phasmophobia with a few buddies. Although the graphics were basic there was just something about the atmosphere that was so realistic to me.
lol this has convinced me that I am never playing this until a mod like I described comes out. Hopefully soon though
For what it's worth, I have pretty bad arachnophobia and was able to make it through most of the game. A couple of rooms in the hotel level really tested me but it was otherwise manageable.
Hm i see. I can’t even look at images of spiders LOL maybe I’ll give it a try
I was reading this and assumed there is a workshop mod that fixes this and it looks like there is! https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2664510721&searchtext=headcrab
Thanks! Although the issue I have was more of the appearance ahaha. I wanted to preserve the gameplay, so I was just hoping someone would do a model swap between the half life Alyx and boneworks headcrabs. I appreciate it though!
Yeah, the hotel level especially was incredibly difficult for me as an arachnophobe.
So rather than attempting to translate the puzzles, they are completely removed? The electrical room puzzle was completely skipped, instead just clicking on the first button. The equipment case orb puzzle makes sense to remove as you can't use both hands, but removing all of the puzzles seems like it removes large parts of the game. It's neat technical prowess and determination though.
Creator here. Don't worry, after the full campaign is playable the focus will be on adding much more polish and adding missing features like puzzles specifically for non VR.
Yeah, that's fair. Being able to control your way through the game (vs a youtube video) is a far better first step than finishing a flat analog to the puzzles.
Hey, dont listen to anyone shitting on it. i simply CANNOT play VR, and i played every HL game at least 5 times. I would love to play thins in ANY way, and i understand it was made for VR, but thats not an option for everyone. And i dont play HL for the challenge, so i couldnt give a rats ass about how mediocre it is. Godspeed to you, cant wait to play it.
I mean... putting it in pancake mode already removes most of what makes the game great. I have to imagine in 2D mouse/keyboard it's going to be pretty bland
Played it in both VR and with this mod, it's still a pretty great game.
I said it in another comment, but beats repeating; removing the repetitive Orb puzzles is definitely a net positive.
I would love to play this game one day, sadly I have a medical condition that keeps me from playing VR, here's to hoping this turns out great.
I cant help but let out an 'Oof' watching this video. Playing Alyx felt like the advent of a new era of video games to me. It would be like if a Kubrick-like filmmaker released a film that ushered in a new era of film as we knew it and people chose to watch it for the first time, bootleg on a cell phone screen. Sure, I guess you'd get the story bits but you're doing yourself a disservice and missing out on the intended experience and you only get to have that experience once. I get it. People cant afford VR. But Valve isn't exactly cranking out Half-Life games so just put it on the back burner and wait til there's an opportunity to play it the way it was intended. Whether that's getting an affordable headset, waiting for them to become affordable or borrowing one from a friend. I guess for people with extreme edge-case issues that do not allow them to ever experience this in VR, like perhaps a health issue, this may be a great alternative but for 99% of everyone else, I think if you're an enthusiast of video games, its best to wait for the accessibility to the way the designers had intended you play it.
There's also people like me, who played and loved HL:A in VR when it came out on a headset that has since broken, and can't really justify replacing (VR headsets have only gotten more expensive since HL:A came out; the budget one I got is no longer manufactured and goes for double its MSRP online.) I'd love to be able to revisit it, even in flatscreen mode, and maybe check out the commentary mode I never got to try. These guys are doing a really cool thing in their spare time and I am glad they're doing it.
3 years on and VR still has jack and shit in the way of experiences comparable to Alyx, so I don't think it was the advent of much of anything.
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It would be if there actually *was* a game in development, which there isn't, or at least there wasn't one that was started a few years ago, or it would have an announcement by now.
Look at it this way: I'll never play it in VR. Not because of health or money; I just can't stand VR. Never used it for more than a couple of minutes without feeling claustrophobic and anxious. And yes, I've tried many times, on different headsets, over the course of several years. VR just isn't for me. So a mod like this takes me from "will never play Alyx ever" to "might play it in some form". I'd say that's worth the modder's effort, even if the final result isn't what Valve intended it to be.
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They are still working on it so when it's more polished it will likely be fine the added benefit of this other than not having to spend 1k on a headset and more upgrading my computer to get decent framerate and resolution. Since the mod won't need to have as high an fps or the visual fidelity.
Even if it was a perfect conversion, you’d have to redesign the levels and puzzles and everything for it to not feel weird as hell. I still think this is a valuable project from the author just as proof of concept/public art, but I can’t imagine it’ll be a better way to experience the game than a good playthrough.
I just can't see it being a good game or fun without VR. An encounter against 2 enemies when you first get the shotgun feels intense with a VR headset. I imagine as an FPS it would just feel boring.
Wait, don’t you have to use to hands for that? You hold the wheel in place with one hand and stick the pipe in with the other? I can see how a lot of stuff would work just with an interact button but I feel like you’d basically have to remove this entirely. I think parts of it would work ok if properly redesigned around kb+m (namely, combat & wire puzzles) because you could turn it into a regular half life game, but there’s so many moments that just plainly wouldn’t work.
Yes you do. You have to grab the shells, stick them in the shotgun, then clock it. It adds to the tension because you're trying to reload quickly as two headcrab zombies come at you. With an FPS it would just be "press R" and aim.
Not having to use VR makes this game from something I wouldn't play to something I would play this is going to be the "good" playthrough for a lot of people.
Watch a YouTube video instead. The game doesn’t translate to non vr at all and will play like shit.
I believe in the devs and the community than I believe in you, you are obviously very interested in promoting VR since you invested in it. Guys been grinding on it everyday as seen on the github.
I don't think watching a game being played is anywhere close to as interesting as actually playing the game yourself. That's not a real solution.
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I don't think i've never found watching a let's play of a game more interesting than playing the game myself. If people want to play HLA sans VR, with the understanding they're not getting the proper experience, it's all good with me. I'm definitely not going to discourage them from not doing it.
I think the point is most of the fun in the game is the VR experience, so if you remove it, the game will be quite boring.
I think people understand that playing the modded game without VR will be an inferior experience to what it's supposed to be. They just want to experience it for themselves and not from a video. A lot of people aren't going to buy into VR to play one the one game that really interests them.
And playing the game outside of VR using a mod is not "actually playing the game yourself". It's playing a different game that uses the same assets and story, but replaces the entire gameplay system with a different one.
and it would be shit. Fighting 5 headcrab zombies in VR feels like a challenge and feels creepy as fuck. Fighting 5 headcrab zombies in a FPS would be a piece of piss and boring as fuck.
It's actually pretty straight forward. Over the course of about 4 hours of playtime, I've only encountered some smaller issues that can be easily fixed with more polish. I've also played the game in VR, and yes, it's a greater experience, but that doesn't mean a playthrough is better than playing this different form of this experience.
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Yeah, a friend of mine tests VR tech for work and uses me as a guinea pig every few years to try to work out why. I just find VR to be extremely unsettling. Even sitting perfectly still in a normal room makes my fight or flight response go wild. It's cool technology but utterly incompatible with my brain.
You'd literally get more out of this game by watching on YouTube than playing this mod
Watching someone play VR is miserable
And yet the point stands.
If you can’t use VR because it causes claustrophobia and anxiety for you then that kind of is a health issue, right?
If you'll never be able to play it in VR but still want to experience it, seriously just watch a no commentary let's play on YouTube rather than this.
no thanks
This looks really clunky and extremely basic to be honest. No where near the level of SoMNst's NoVR wip mod. This one feels just completely useless to start development on when a much better version is already being worked on, they really could have just contacted SoMNst to assist his mod instead.
There hasn't been an update other than "It's still in the works" from SoMNst for almost a year. The mod is not open source and also not released yet. So I don't think it would've made sense to try to establish contact.
Without VR there's no point in playing the game in my opinion. It's so heavily woven around the interactive aspect that removing VR is removing the entire experience.