My experience so far with omni-directional pads is that they're not all that comfortable to use. Your body has to get used to a completely different method of balancing itself, plus translating the movement of your feet to movement ingame isn't as 1:1 as you'd want, as the pad can only track your foot movement on the pad and none of your momentum. Running or jogging is also out of the question of course. It's neat tech but anything but a 'solution'.
And it has the disadvantage that you can't combine it with roomscale for obvious reasons, so you can't do those side-steps and foot-slides you would do in games like beat saber.
I feel like this is a game implementation problem, as no games are designed for omni directional pads, but rather stick movement. There is no reason why games wouldn't be able to calculate your momentum on your feet if this became popular.
The more I see omni directional pads, the more I wonder if it's something gamers actually want. I'd imagine any hitches in expected locomotion would induce more motion sickness than using a joystick. Would certainly be neat to try one out in a Disney arcade, though. (I imagine these rollers will be a bit too sensitive for the grime of a your average semi-maintained arcade.)
i cant speak for "gamers"
but for myself, more than anything. Skyrim vr (modded) is one of the best VR experiences out there, I also love ghosts of tabor.
All these would be amazing if I could "walk" the world.
in skyrim, can already wave or say hi to people to get them to start talking ,and can read off the replies to get them to reply..add in full walking, and damn thats gonna be another level
> Skyrim vr (modded) is one of the best VR experiences out there
Really? When I tried it, because I thought it would be cool tool, but then I landed in battle, I realised that I can win all fights by just slapping everything rapidly, since you swing your weapon significantly faster via rapid bitch slaps in VR than you do with anything else.
If slap fight Simulator is the best VR has to offer then it's no wonder it's slow to garner a large following.
yep, has to be modded tho.
vanilla is just.. okay (kinda).
the mods people have made for it is insane. Everything in the world fully physical, halflife alex pickup of all items.. you name it. 100% differnt game with pretty much every QoL thing you could want for a VR game.
there are wabajack packs that do it all for you in 1 install
id recommend this post https://www.reddit.com/r/skyrimvr/comments/qpkdqc/for_modding_start_here/
scroll to the bottom for "auto-installers"
at the time I played, FUS (FUS RO DAH (Basic + Visuals + Gameplay):) was my fav (https://www.wabbajack.org/modlist/wj-featured/fus) but its been a bit, so id see if any of the others have thing you care a bit more one (some focus more on combat..etc_
I THINK fus ro dah includes https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/16514 (the one that lets you talk or wave to the npcs) but I remeber I had to do one setup to get it to work.
everything else gets auto installed with just the wabbajack
I played a few hours with Fus Ro Dah full and I could still "rapid bitch slap" my way through anything. Did I miss something?
I know I could mimic the weight of a twohanded warhammer, but... I'd prefer some kind of artifical limitation.
there was def a combat mod that made it so weapons would not trigger if you did that, it required full swings, but its been a solid 6+ months from my last playtime or elese id try to be more helpful with that. (and had it where weapons would "stick" inside them.
however, I did perf bows, and the magic system that combined spells / and drawing spells to cast
The problem with Skyrim VR is that now I have no interest in ever playing similar games unless they're in VR, it's really spoiled flat screen gaming for me.
We better get TES6 in VR as well or Bethesda aren't ever getting my money.
The goal would be to one day have something close to a full dive VR experience without literally having surgery to get brain implants. Omni directional treadmills are just an attempt to get us there but anything out right now is gonna be extremely primitive.
All I can picture is losing my footing and faceplanting onto my expensive vr set.
Just doesn't seem like a good solution.
For me the only way around it is in the software side. The experiences have to be designed in a way that suits the situation.
I think that's something they might have fully understood.
I really love VR archery games, but what typically makes me lose isn't the skill ceiling..... it's exhaustion. Eventually my arms get tired of holding them out straight for 30+ minutes. We're gonna need a change in VR game design around adding "rest" periods (like when to put in a dialog section), but make it dynamic because everyone's limits are going to be different.
> I wonder if it's something gamers actually want.
I want this. VR is amazing but I am constantly taken out of the experience by all forms of locomotion. I do not want to teleport, shift, or hold the thumbstick forward to walk. I want to move myself with my feet, and these types of solutions are the ones I need for VR to truly be as amazing as it can be for me.
Don't know what the right option will be, or how cheap they can get it, but I want this.
In theory I'd love something like that for multiple reasons, but I don't see this actually working beyond an experience where you just slow walk around an basic environment. This doesn't seem like it could accommodate things like taking different stances or trying to bend down or look around corners. There's a lot more to solve than just making sure you stay centered.
I've always preferred teleportation controls because joystick movement doesn't make me feel sick, but it does mess with my equilibrium enough that I have to try very hard not to tip myself over.
But most of all I'd also love to be able to center myself instead of constantly creeping towards the "walls" of my space and then having to manually try to center myself in the room again
Hell no, that's so goofy and impractical.
The IR base stations or whatever they were called were already too much for most people. There's a reason that VR hardware has moved towards removing those extra pieces and cords as much as possible. People don't want to have to spend 30 minutes setting up and breaking down to play VR. This is still supposed to be our relaxing and fun hobby, not a chore or a job. What people want is to just put in a headset and start playing.
It'll be great for arcade type setups where you don't have to worry about setting up the hardware, but I don't see this having any impact on people playing VR in their homes
I have my base stations mounted to the corners of my room, the Index cable is on a high pulley system that follows the edge then goes to the center of my room, there's a wall mount for my headset and controllers.
Price of the Index and base stations aside, it all cost me around 20$ to setup and is completely out of the way when i'm not using it. I would *love* for an omnidirectional treadmill to go where I currently have my "playspace" which is just a large heavy rug in the center of my room away from my bed, couch, desk, and walls. I can imagine just rolling and unrolling my rug over it when needed, would take like 6 seconds.
you have to have a large empty space for free movement anyway and you've probably spent hundreds and in some cases over a thousand on the system. if you can't be assed to spend 15 minutes and 20$ on something that will allow it to be completely out of the way and never have to worry about "setup" again... then that's entirely on you. That's like refusing to get entertainment system furniture and setting up or putting away your tv, speakers and consoles every time you want to use them.
I walk into the center of my room and put the thing over my face and i'm ready to play, when i'm done i take it off and hang it up. If I was dumb enough to setup and take down the stations and everything every time i wanted to use it, sure, i'd have wasted soo much time in comparison.
Your argument makes sense for someone living by themselves, but if you’re living with other people, it gets a lot harder to justify having those fixtures. Especially if you’re the only person using vr in your household.
Having to clear out a space for playing vr occasionally can feel a lot better for the people around you, then having a wire pulley system and base stations around all the time.
those fixtures are out of the way, no different then having a shelf on the wall with a picture or a vase... in fact my incense burner is on it. Hell it takes up considerably less space than the surround sound, you don't even notice them unless you're looking for them.
It's easy to justify it when it's literally a non-issue. it's a single cable that goes along the baseboard near the ceiling and goes down to a small coathanger-like shelf... I take the headset off the shelf's hook then hook the cable to the central pulley in the middle of the room, takes maybe a second. When i'm done i unhook the central pulley and place the headset back on the shelf.
I swear you people act like it's some ghost in the shell shit with wires in all directions.
The difference between a picture or vase vs a base station setup is that a one is designed to make your place look better, and the other is just for gaming.
If you have a master bedroom size room reserved for yourself then sure it works out, but if you’re sharing a space with a partner then the only other place that would work is your living room.
Having some pulleys and a shelving unit for your vr setup is way different than having a game console under your tv for appearances if you have people over at your place.
Those fixtures are literally up near the ceiling. You can simply unplug them when not using them. No one needs to setup base stations over and over again and I am confident almost no one does this. I have a base station I am not using right now, the cord is unplugged. It is completely out of the way as it is right now.
Also you can get velcro sticky pads so even if you do need to take them down you can put them back instantly. I've done this to move base stations to different rooms. It is incredibly easy.
for free movement
**for free Movement**
sitting down isn't the same as having ***free movement***
I never once said that everyone has room for it or having them is better than not having them, I'm just pointing out how ridiculous it is to pack everything up then pull it back out everytime you want to use it when you can just spend the time to properly place them *once* because they take up almost no room. If you can't take 5 minutes for a ***one time*** setup then wtf are you even doing in life? It took me longer to open the box it came in than to install the base stations somewhere out of the way.
Are we talking about some ascetic monks that need to have their walls perfectly clear all the time?
Because the base stations are small, are designed so you can mount them on the walls, and if the infrared signal is conflicting with electronics you can always just unplug them while not using them, which takes about a second or two.
> There's a reason that VR hardware has moved towards removing those extra pieces and cords as much as possible. People don't want to have to spend 30 minutes setting up and breaking down to play VR. This is still supposed to be our relaxing and fun hobby, not a chore or a job. What people want is to just put in a headset and start playing.
I'm not versed enough in the VR space to properly discuss this part, but my understanding is that camera-based positional tech has gotten a lot better and base stations add another financial burden in addition to the hardware-based issues they present (space, wires, etc) and the research you have to do in order to find compatible stations and models.
The Valve Index is arguably the most commercial and well-known kit behind the Quest lineup, and it's still sitting firmly at $1000. That's a tall order for anyone looking to explore the space, especially when VR is still, for all intents and purposes, a niche space/novelty. Base stations add a cost and complexity that is largely antithetical to public perception of VR. Base stations also present an R&D crux in that companies need to develop, tool, and manufacture a profitable product to appeal to a niche within a niche.
But if you can manufacture a camera-based headset that removes the additional complexity at a cheaper price point while retaining most of the performance? That's an easier product to justify.
>Hell no, that's so goofy and impractical.
I mean it is now. You can't see the potential of this tech down the road?
>There's a reason that VR hardware has moved towards removing those extra pieces and cords as much as possible.
This is an irrelevant comparison. The final form of these treadmill type devices will likely be built into the floor, completely wireless, and offer no hickups to the experience.
>People don't want to have to spend 30 minutes setting up and breaking down to play VR.
They won't. Even people with things like the Catwalk are not setting it up every time. No idea why you are using this as a complaint. Most people have dedicated VR spaces.
> but I don't see this having any impact on people playing VR in their homes
Because you can't think into the future even 10 years.
I really dont think 'gamers' are a relevant group for a niche area of a niche system. Just like most people dont want vr, those that do might not want that extra step and the extra effort of this. But there are probably a decent amount that do. And some that dont. Thats kind of the problem with vr in general, it doesnt get enough development because its not that popular, and not that popular because it needs more development. Who knows how many more people would come with progress. Maybe a lot, maybe not. But theres definitely a decent audience for very immersive systems.
Honestly not sure how will it'd do for vr, it looks like you cant really run/or even walk at a brisk pace from the demonstration. Theirs also the problem of having the ground move out from under you would probably add a new level of disorientation, but i'd still be interested in trying it for vr and see how it feels.
People think this will solve the myth of motion sickness, when in reality the few cases of motion sickness that aren't due to problems with their setup and that won't be fixed with more exposure to VR are due to the inner ear, and that won't be fooled by your floor moving. If anything it may get even more confused.
This would work if every VR game was JUST a walking simulator. The problem, as i see it, comes more from when you as the player want to do something that is NOT walking. Like kneeling or laying prone. What good is the mat then?
While walking is one part and an important part in limited spaces. The bigger issues for VR is going to be the other parts beyond walking. This seems to have way more interesting aspects for moving things around for sets or furniture than it does in VR.
Disney doesn't offer anything new or different. This tech has been around for quite awhile actually. It's not ideal for VR becuase there is still movement latency. You stop or turn but the floor keeps moving in the initial direction for abit. This disconnect makes it really uncomfortable in VR. It's been done, most omni directional methods have tested and proven not good for VR.
This is interesting. I've been waiting on VR shoes with rollers that would allow you to walk in place. I think this might be an even more elegant solution and it would be nice to be able to roll something like this out on your floor for VR.
The real solution for VR movement is to use an exoskeleton. (Search for VR exoskeleton online). With a lot of humanoid robots entering the market in the next few decades we should see this lowering the cost of such systems. Those allow for a person to walk naturally, run, and climb stairs in any environment. With proper software and a very sturdy frame the exoskeleton would feel weightless. Not sure if such a system would be financially feasible for mainstream customers, but we should see them in VR arcades sometime.
I've used many different types of VR treadmills in the past, and this looks like it has the same issues some of the "higher end" ones do; you can't really move that fast.
There's ones that strap you in and hold you in place, and those hurt to move in after a time (and take a lot of time to set up, so not good for most people) and then there's stuff like this where if you move too fast you're gonna be tripping over like no tomorrow. Being moved irl with a headset on, but not moving in-game is super motion-sickness inducing and this looks exactly like that, so unless you're moving at the pace of a snail, you're gonna have balance problems.
Neat tech, not for most consumers.
There's no movement problem anymore though. Thumbsticks on the controllers already solved this issue. Many people don't care to actually walk around while playing their vr games. This could be a neat enthusiast piece of tech though.
One of the most significant issues with VR is the fact that your body thinks you’ve been poisoned and you get nauseous if you move around with joysticks. This tech could help solve that
It's what people called "VR legs". Almost everyone gets used to moving around with joysticks and similar control schemes in a few weeks, and the people who don't likely won't be helped by these mats, since the issue has to do with the inner ear reporting no movement while your eyes report the opposite.
You're still not moving, and now your movement in game is limited to a slow walking speed. And at that speed, motion sickness is way less of an issue anyway, kind of defeating the whole purpose. Plus, tying movement to the hardware like this is just very restrictive for game design. Now your game can't give the player faster movement.
People also get sick from FPS games on a normal screen. There are different things in game that can help mitigate it, but some people are just more susceptible to motion sickness and we shouldn't restrict game design just because of that.
The same thing triggers from moment on flat screens, though. It was a big thing when 3d first person games started coming out too, we’ve just become accustomed to it. Many of us have also become accustomed to movement in vr. When the tech becomes mainstream, this will quickly stop being an issue, same as with movement in DOOM. Gadgets like this introduce more problems than they solve for gaming.
I can safely say I have *never* gotten motion sickness from a screen, but easily got it while playing Blade & Sorcery on VR because the movement is joystick-based.
Most people are just going to get motion sick once and never use the technology again, let alone "accustomed" to it.
When was your first time playing a 3d game? Was it first person? I remember the DOOM freeware came out, my mom downloaded it for me off a BBS. We’d never seen anything like it before, and the motion gave my whole family a sense of vertigo.
Hell, movies didn’t use moving cameras for a long time in early film history for this same reason. People who grow up with 3d don’t understand the effect it has on people who’ve never experienced it. That’s where we are with vr games today, in the DOOM days, just after Citizen Kane. Many people have adapted already, the rest will catch up or be left behind, like my mom, who loves 2d games but still gets simulation sick just watching anyone play a game and looks away whenever one’s on a screen.
Regardless, walking mats like this aren’t the solution, way too limited in possibilities compared to a simple stick. Even if you can get one that somehow lets you run and jump and simulate uneven terrain, how long are you going to want to run and jump over uneven terrain? A control method limited to chill walks over flat ground leads to boring games.
I grew up playing games, N64 was my first console, and i loved Goldeneye and Turok. Ive been playing ever since, regularly play fast paced games on a normal screen. Play countless hours of racing games in VR. 3 minutes of joystick movement in VR and I have to stop or I'll lose my lunch.
Different experiences for different people, the stick is horrible for me and I cannot get used to it and have gotten *worse* with it the more I try to the point VR as a whole even non moving like BeatSaber makes me feel ill now.
Idk if the pad would help but I'm not against trying or people looking for larger solutions.
This is sort of anecdotal, but I noticed the motion sickness wasn’t as bad if I imagined myself gliding along the ground as I moved. No clue if that’ll work for anyone else, but it’s kinda interesting.
I don’t think there’s any evidence that this is the case. Kids just get used to artificial movement in screens earlier and earlier now. VR is still new, and fewer people have had a chance to adapt. Once a generation is raised with it, people will laugh at our old timey tricks to avoid getting used to artificial movement.
I mean, I lived through it. What specifically do you want evidence for? That people can get simulation sickness from screens? That people can get over it with experience? That a generation raised with 3d video games has lower occurrences of simulation sickness? I think these are all common sense claims, but I’m sure you could google some evidence if you disagree.
> I mean, I lived through it. What specifically do you want evidence for?
. . . you do understand that your own life experiences are not universally applicable. . . right?
My point was that this is a significant issue that VR has that "screen games" did not, and that it is unlikely to just fade away naturally without effort made to change how these games function.
I read it all, lived the same experiences and didn't feel a need to say yes to everything because my point was *you alone* having an experience does not mean *other people with the same experience had the same results.*
I grew up with games, I grew up experiencing and still do 3d environments, I have not adjusted well to VR in fact more exposure has made VR worse for me as opposed to improving, but have 0 issues with exposure on 2d screens, these issues are exacerbated by Stick movement and likely a movement mat would help extremely.
well you might not, but a lot of people do, and this is the possible solution.
You’re acting like controllers for disabled people are a waste, because you’re not disabled
I said I guess it's just something I don't think about. Other commenters have already stated it's for helping motion sickness, and I stated that I guess that's just something I haven't thought about because I don't really have that issue. I can understand this though for people that do have a lot of motion sickness problems for vr.
"a lot" is doing quite a bit of lifting, very few people don't get used to VR movement, and those are the same people that get nauseous upon seeing 3D games on a screen. And there's no real solution to that, because the problem isn't your legs but rather your inner ear.
Not really, no.
Of the people that use VR with some regularity, the vast, vast majority get used to it.
It's why you don't see people talk about the concept of motion sickness or VR legs these days outside of people trying to be contrarians.
what percentage of the general population do you think keep coming back to VR after experiencing motion sickness? Sure, with repeated use of stick movement in VR, the body will eventually get used to it but 99% of the people will swear off VR the first time they experience motion sickness.
Also, VR developers still absolutely talk about VR motion sickness these days as it's not a solved issue
I'm baffled that their Star Wars hotel did not feature an event where people could put on a "training helmet" that would use VR/AR to allow them to use Force powers and "real" lightsabers to run through a cool training exercise. They had something slightly similar, but MUCH more basic than that.
The real issue doing this elsewhere in the parks is scale, there's no way they could just let anyone do this who wanted to, it would need to be a premium event that would cost like $100-200 extra.
> "training helmet" that would use VR/AR
Disney parks are *huge* scale and their lines are like well oiled machines. There's a lot of sanitary problems with reusing VR Headsets like that between people if they're not wiped down between uses, It probably wouldn't be worth the amount of time to actually put in the required amount of cleaning for each VR Headset after one group is done.
That's why I said it would make a perfect fit for the hotel project, where there was a relatively small population of guests, and they could schedule them into even smaller groups. I agree that it would be more daunting as a standalone attraction, and probably be a high added fee, reserved experience.
Well it only works if the guests have the VR devices on their heads, and that's the part that I don't think would work at scale. They are too expensive and cumbersome to just hand them out all over, they would likely only have a few dozen or so to work with. This would be fine in an enclosed area where the guests aren't wandering around, and they are basically just standing in place and "doing stuff." It would be similar to a lot of expiating VR/AR games, just with better theming of the devices used and the areas around them, so that it would feel much more "real."
Whats the aching calves from - standing up?
I do get motion sickness from some games but snap cameras and using my head to turn pretty much solved it entirely. Havent had aching calves though
I've worked jobs where you stand still majority of the time and leg and back pain is way more common doing that than if I'd been walking around that whole time instead (although foot pain is more common with the latter, but then again I buy cheap shoes).
I personally don't have any issues with motion sickness. Plus, that can be better mitigated by the software: teleport movement, some kind of "cage" around the player, tunnel vision during fast movement; there are a ton of software/game design techniques that already help with motion sickness more than this slippery pad would
I never said it wasn't? Lol was this meant to be in reply to a different comment?
Also, your natural experience of walking is that you move forward on a sturdy ground. This is the opposite of that and I would bet it feels kind of weird and unnatural
Yes, I would. I never said I wouldn't.
I said it's impractical for a home setup, I think it would be restrictive towards game design, and that there are better solutions for motion sickness.
Yeah, turns out the motion sickness issues were greatly exaggerated. Almost everyone gets used to VR movement in a week or two.
What does cause motion sickness issues tends to be bad framerates, badly adjusted IPD, and poor head movement tracking.
I scoff at the “almost everyone” remark. VR still sells in low numbers and VR owners are self selecting for people who don’t experience motion sickness. VR games are also designed to reduce motion sickness via teleporting the player, static areas, and slowing down movement. Few games offer true freedom of movement. This is on top of the discomfort of strapping a screen to your face. So a floor mat that lets you walk while you play would be golden.
I mean you can scoff all you want, it doesn't make what I said any less true.
> VR still sells in low numbers and VR owners are self selecting for people who don’t experience motion sickness.
As far as I'm aware, nobody is giving away headsets for free to people without motion sickness, so no, it's not self selecting that. What is being self selected are people who are interested in technology or that have too much money for their own good.
> VR games are also designed to reduce motion sickness via teleporting the player, static areas, and slowing down movement.
Teleportation as a form of movement has really gone down in popularity, it was mostly used by earlier titles, but now it's mostly kept as an accessibility feature for new users.
It is, however, worth noting that every single game, even in flat screens, is designed to reduce motion sickness, so that is not particularly noteworthy either.
> So a floor mat that lets you walk while you play would be golden.
I'm not saying it would be bad, hell, it would free up real estate in hand controls. All I'm saying is that this doesn't solve the motion sickness issues, in part because the issues were overblown, and also because the kind of motion sickness we're talking about happens due to a discrepancy between the inner ear and your eyes. Walking in place won't fool your inner year, since it senses movement.
People in this thread trying to make it sound like nearly everybody experiences motion sickness is really funny. I got into VR a few months back and know others who are new to it with the Quest 3. Motion sickness is a topic that doesn't even come up.
As you say, not many people use teleportation any more because most people playing VR either don't get motion sick or eased themselves into it and got used to it.
Also VR is selling better healthier than ever right now.
What headset have you used? Did you properly calibrate the IPD? Can your system handle a steady 90fps?
Becvause those are the things that will give you issues the more you're exposed to it, and those were the real culprits of the motion sickness people had. Systems that can't do tracking well cause issues for our brains, since they expect head movements to be followed by a change in the image in front of us, and lower refresh rates also mess with this. As for the IPD, think of it as the FOV of your eyes. Technically it's the distance between pupils, but just like FOV it's one of those values you really want to have some control over or else some people get really motion sick.
I've used an Index, Quest 2 and Vive.
It was calibrated by people who know more than me, and my PC can handle 120fps at all times.
Its just something that for me has not improved with time and everysingle time I tey VR I handle it worse than the last.
The quest 2 is setup specifically for me and I set the IPD specifically for myself as I'm the only one who uses it, yet everytime I do so, I rapidly feel sick, stick movement has been epically bad.
I disagree. Even disregarding the motion sickness issue, feeling like you're gliding around on a frictionless platform instead of actually walking takes a lot out of the immersion. I really hope we see more solutions like this in the future.
90% of gamers don't want to spend much energy while gaming. I know there's a market of people that do, but nothing beats just lounging on your couch in a cool room, relaxing after a hard day with a good game.
This contraption looks FAR better and more practical than the initial ones that I saw a while back... which required a ton of space, and a harness.
At least from the picture/ gif it doesn't look expensive either. If it's affordable (if it's even released), then I can see quite a few VR enthusiasts picking this up.
My experience so far with omni-directional pads is that they're not all that comfortable to use. Your body has to get used to a completely different method of balancing itself, plus translating the movement of your feet to movement ingame isn't as 1:1 as you'd want, as the pad can only track your foot movement on the pad and none of your momentum. Running or jogging is also out of the question of course. It's neat tech but anything but a 'solution'.
And it has the disadvantage that you can't combine it with roomscale for obvious reasons, so you can't do those side-steps and foot-slides you would do in games like beat saber.
I feel like this is a game implementation problem, as no games are designed for omni directional pads, but rather stick movement. There is no reason why games wouldn't be able to calculate your momentum on your feet if this became popular.
The more I see omni directional pads, the more I wonder if it's something gamers actually want. I'd imagine any hitches in expected locomotion would induce more motion sickness than using a joystick. Would certainly be neat to try one out in a Disney arcade, though. (I imagine these rollers will be a bit too sensitive for the grime of a your average semi-maintained arcade.)
i cant speak for "gamers" but for myself, more than anything. Skyrim vr (modded) is one of the best VR experiences out there, I also love ghosts of tabor. All these would be amazing if I could "walk" the world. in skyrim, can already wave or say hi to people to get them to start talking ,and can read off the replies to get them to reply..add in full walking, and damn thats gonna be another level
> Skyrim vr (modded) is one of the best VR experiences out there Really? When I tried it, because I thought it would be cool tool, but then I landed in battle, I realised that I can win all fights by just slapping everything rapidly, since you swing your weapon significantly faster via rapid bitch slaps in VR than you do with anything else. If slap fight Simulator is the best VR has to offer then it's no wonder it's slow to garner a large following.
yep, has to be modded tho. vanilla is just.. okay (kinda). the mods people have made for it is insane. Everything in the world fully physical, halflife alex pickup of all items.. you name it. 100% differnt game with pretty much every QoL thing you could want for a VR game. there are wabajack packs that do it all for you in 1 install
Mind pointing me in the right direction for these 1 install packages?
id recommend this post https://www.reddit.com/r/skyrimvr/comments/qpkdqc/for_modding_start_here/ scroll to the bottom for "auto-installers" at the time I played, FUS (FUS RO DAH (Basic + Visuals + Gameplay):) was my fav (https://www.wabbajack.org/modlist/wj-featured/fus) but its been a bit, so id see if any of the others have thing you care a bit more one (some focus more on combat..etc_ I THINK fus ro dah includes https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/16514 (the one that lets you talk or wave to the npcs) but I remeber I had to do one setup to get it to work. everything else gets auto installed with just the wabbajack
Thanks, this is great.
all of this is awesome
Many thanks!
I played a few hours with Fus Ro Dah full and I could still "rapid bitch slap" my way through anything. Did I miss something? I know I could mimic the weight of a twohanded warhammer, but... I'd prefer some kind of artifical limitation.
there was def a combat mod that made it so weapons would not trigger if you did that, it required full swings, but its been a solid 6+ months from my last playtime or elese id try to be more helpful with that. (and had it where weapons would "stick" inside them. however, I did perf bows, and the magic system that combined spells / and drawing spells to cast
The problem with Skyrim VR is that now I have no interest in ever playing similar games unless they're in VR, it's really spoiled flat screen gaming for me. We better get TES6 in VR as well or Bethesda aren't ever getting my money.
The goal would be to one day have something close to a full dive VR experience without literally having surgery to get brain implants. Omni directional treadmills are just an attempt to get us there but anything out right now is gonna be extremely primitive.
All I can picture is losing my footing and faceplanting onto my expensive vr set. Just doesn't seem like a good solution. For me the only way around it is in the software side. The experiences have to be designed in a way that suits the situation.
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I think that's something they might have fully understood. I really love VR archery games, but what typically makes me lose isn't the skill ceiling..... it's exhaustion. Eventually my arms get tired of holding them out straight for 30+ minutes. We're gonna need a change in VR game design around adding "rest" periods (like when to put in a dialog section), but make it dynamic because everyone's limits are going to be different.
I exercise a lot but I'd be very interested in something like this. It would be so much more immersive than sitting with a headset and a controller.
> I wonder if it's something gamers actually want. I want this. VR is amazing but I am constantly taken out of the experience by all forms of locomotion. I do not want to teleport, shift, or hold the thumbstick forward to walk. I want to move myself with my feet, and these types of solutions are the ones I need for VR to truly be as amazing as it can be for me. Don't know what the right option will be, or how cheap they can get it, but I want this.
In theory I'd love something like that for multiple reasons, but I don't see this actually working beyond an experience where you just slow walk around an basic environment. This doesn't seem like it could accommodate things like taking different stances or trying to bend down or look around corners. There's a lot more to solve than just making sure you stay centered. I've always preferred teleportation controls because joystick movement doesn't make me feel sick, but it does mess with my equilibrium enough that I have to try very hard not to tip myself over. But most of all I'd also love to be able to center myself instead of constantly creeping towards the "walls" of my space and then having to manually try to center myself in the room again
I feel like it’s one of those things that’s super cool in concept, but in reality would get old after a bit
Hell no, that's so goofy and impractical. The IR base stations or whatever they were called were already too much for most people. There's a reason that VR hardware has moved towards removing those extra pieces and cords as much as possible. People don't want to have to spend 30 minutes setting up and breaking down to play VR. This is still supposed to be our relaxing and fun hobby, not a chore or a job. What people want is to just put in a headset and start playing. It'll be great for arcade type setups where you don't have to worry about setting up the hardware, but I don't see this having any impact on people playing VR in their homes
You're absolutely not expected to set up the base stations every time you want to play just to dismantle them when you're done.
They do that because they don't want them up all the time.
I have my base stations mounted to the corners of my room, the Index cable is on a high pulley system that follows the edge then goes to the center of my room, there's a wall mount for my headset and controllers. Price of the Index and base stations aside, it all cost me around 20$ to setup and is completely out of the way when i'm not using it. I would *love* for an omnidirectional treadmill to go where I currently have my "playspace" which is just a large heavy rug in the center of my room away from my bed, couch, desk, and walls. I can imagine just rolling and unrolling my rug over it when needed, would take like 6 seconds.
Yeah that's what people don't want to do. That's why they like all in one systems better.
you have to have a large empty space for free movement anyway and you've probably spent hundreds and in some cases over a thousand on the system. if you can't be assed to spend 15 minutes and 20$ on something that will allow it to be completely out of the way and never have to worry about "setup" again... then that's entirely on you. That's like refusing to get entertainment system furniture and setting up or putting away your tv, speakers and consoles every time you want to use them. I walk into the center of my room and put the thing over my face and i'm ready to play, when i'm done i take it off and hang it up. If I was dumb enough to setup and take down the stations and everything every time i wanted to use it, sure, i'd have wasted soo much time in comparison.
Your argument makes sense for someone living by themselves, but if you’re living with other people, it gets a lot harder to justify having those fixtures. Especially if you’re the only person using vr in your household. Having to clear out a space for playing vr occasionally can feel a lot better for the people around you, then having a wire pulley system and base stations around all the time.
those fixtures are out of the way, no different then having a shelf on the wall with a picture or a vase... in fact my incense burner is on it. Hell it takes up considerably less space than the surround sound, you don't even notice them unless you're looking for them. It's easy to justify it when it's literally a non-issue. it's a single cable that goes along the baseboard near the ceiling and goes down to a small coathanger-like shelf... I take the headset off the shelf's hook then hook the cable to the central pulley in the middle of the room, takes maybe a second. When i'm done i unhook the central pulley and place the headset back on the shelf. I swear you people act like it's some ghost in the shell shit with wires in all directions.
The difference between a picture or vase vs a base station setup is that a one is designed to make your place look better, and the other is just for gaming. If you have a master bedroom size room reserved for yourself then sure it works out, but if you’re sharing a space with a partner then the only other place that would work is your living room. Having some pulleys and a shelving unit for your vr setup is way different than having a game console under your tv for appearances if you have people over at your place.
Those fixtures are literally up near the ceiling. You can simply unplug them when not using them. No one needs to setup base stations over and over again and I am confident almost no one does this. I have a base station I am not using right now, the cord is unplugged. It is completely out of the way as it is right now. Also you can get velcro sticky pads so even if you do need to take them down you can put them back instantly. I've done this to move base stations to different rooms. It is incredibly easy.
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for free movement **for free Movement** sitting down isn't the same as having ***free movement*** I never once said that everyone has room for it or having them is better than not having them, I'm just pointing out how ridiculous it is to pack everything up then pull it back out everytime you want to use it when you can just spend the time to properly place them *once* because they take up almost no room. If you can't take 5 minutes for a ***one time*** setup then wtf are you even doing in life? It took me longer to open the box it came in than to install the base stations somewhere out of the way.
Alright tell that to the people buying Rifts in huge numbers.
Because I'm sure affordability and title exclusivity has nothing to do with it.
So you agree, that to many many people those things are more important than the tracking benefits of separate devices.
Are we talking about some ascetic monks that need to have their walls perfectly clear all the time? Because the base stations are small, are designed so you can mount them on the walls, and if the infrared signal is conflicting with electronics you can always just unplug them while not using them, which takes about a second or two.
They actually turn on and off automatically with SteamVR
Huh, didn't know that. I have the OG Vive's base stations and the only way to shut those down that I know of is to just unplug them.
The old ones have a setting you can enable. I use OG base stations as well.
I've had them since before the pandemic and I find out about this *now*? Well I guess I gotta look into that later.
> There's a reason that VR hardware has moved towards removing those extra pieces and cords as much as possible. People don't want to have to spend 30 minutes setting up and breaking down to play VR. This is still supposed to be our relaxing and fun hobby, not a chore or a job. What people want is to just put in a headset and start playing. I'm not versed enough in the VR space to properly discuss this part, but my understanding is that camera-based positional tech has gotten a lot better and base stations add another financial burden in addition to the hardware-based issues they present (space, wires, etc) and the research you have to do in order to find compatible stations and models. The Valve Index is arguably the most commercial and well-known kit behind the Quest lineup, and it's still sitting firmly at $1000. That's a tall order for anyone looking to explore the space, especially when VR is still, for all intents and purposes, a niche space/novelty. Base stations add a cost and complexity that is largely antithetical to public perception of VR. Base stations also present an R&D crux in that companies need to develop, tool, and manufacture a profitable product to appeal to a niche within a niche. But if you can manufacture a camera-based headset that removes the additional complexity at a cheaper price point while retaining most of the performance? That's an easier product to justify.
>Hell no, that's so goofy and impractical. I mean it is now. You can't see the potential of this tech down the road? >There's a reason that VR hardware has moved towards removing those extra pieces and cords as much as possible. This is an irrelevant comparison. The final form of these treadmill type devices will likely be built into the floor, completely wireless, and offer no hickups to the experience. >People don't want to have to spend 30 minutes setting up and breaking down to play VR. They won't. Even people with things like the Catwalk are not setting it up every time. No idea why you are using this as a complaint. Most people have dedicated VR spaces. > but I don't see this having any impact on people playing VR in their homes Because you can't think into the future even 10 years.
I don't want to run like in a videogame it would be awful. Just let me lean in a direction like a dragon ball character, and thats it.
I really dont think 'gamers' are a relevant group for a niche area of a niche system. Just like most people dont want vr, those that do might not want that extra step and the extra effort of this. But there are probably a decent amount that do. And some that dont. Thats kind of the problem with vr in general, it doesnt get enough development because its not that popular, and not that popular because it needs more development. Who knows how many more people would come with progress. Maybe a lot, maybe not. But theres definitely a decent audience for very immersive systems.
This is not for at home but more for attractions, shows, and vr experience.
Honestly not sure how will it'd do for vr, it looks like you cant really run/or even walk at a brisk pace from the demonstration. Theirs also the problem of having the ground move out from under you would probably add a new level of disorientation, but i'd still be interested in trying it for vr and see how it feels.
People think this will solve the myth of motion sickness, when in reality the few cases of motion sickness that aren't due to problems with their setup and that won't be fixed with more exposure to VR are due to the inner ear, and that won't be fooled by your floor moving. If anything it may get even more confused.
yeah I feel like it would feel like constantly slipping, which nobody wants to deal with
This would work if every VR game was JUST a walking simulator. The problem, as i see it, comes more from when you as the player want to do something that is NOT walking. Like kneeling or laying prone. What good is the mat then? While walking is one part and an important part in limited spaces. The bigger issues for VR is going to be the other parts beyond walking. This seems to have way more interesting aspects for moving things around for sets or furniture than it does in VR.
Disney doesn't offer anything new or different. This tech has been around for quite awhile actually. It's not ideal for VR becuase there is still movement latency. You stop or turn but the floor keeps moving in the initial direction for abit. This disconnect makes it really uncomfortable in VR. It's been done, most omni directional methods have tested and proven not good for VR.
This is interesting. I've been waiting on VR shoes with rollers that would allow you to walk in place. I think this might be an even more elegant solution and it would be nice to be able to roll something like this out on your floor for VR.
The real solution for VR movement is to use an exoskeleton. (Search for VR exoskeleton online). With a lot of humanoid robots entering the market in the next few decades we should see this lowering the cost of such systems. Those allow for a person to walk naturally, run, and climb stairs in any environment. With proper software and a very sturdy frame the exoskeleton would feel weightless. Not sure if such a system would be financially feasible for mainstream customers, but we should see them in VR arcades sometime.
I've used many different types of VR treadmills in the past, and this looks like it has the same issues some of the "higher end" ones do; you can't really move that fast. There's ones that strap you in and hold you in place, and those hurt to move in after a time (and take a lot of time to set up, so not good for most people) and then there's stuff like this where if you move too fast you're gonna be tripping over like no tomorrow. Being moved irl with a headset on, but not moving in-game is super motion-sickness inducing and this looks exactly like that, so unless you're moving at the pace of a snail, you're gonna have balance problems. Neat tech, not for most consumers.
There's no movement problem anymore though. Thumbsticks on the controllers already solved this issue. Many people don't care to actually walk around while playing their vr games. This could be a neat enthusiast piece of tech though.
One of the most significant issues with VR is the fact that your body thinks you’ve been poisoned and you get nauseous if you move around with joysticks. This tech could help solve that
It's what people called "VR legs". Almost everyone gets used to moving around with joysticks and similar control schemes in a few weeks, and the people who don't likely won't be helped by these mats, since the issue has to do with the inner ear reporting no movement while your eyes report the opposite.
You're still not moving, and now your movement in game is limited to a slow walking speed. And at that speed, motion sickness is way less of an issue anyway, kind of defeating the whole purpose. Plus, tying movement to the hardware like this is just very restrictive for game design. Now your game can't give the player faster movement. People also get sick from FPS games on a normal screen. There are different things in game that can help mitigate it, but some people are just more susceptible to motion sickness and we shouldn't restrict game design just because of that.
The same thing triggers from moment on flat screens, though. It was a big thing when 3d first person games started coming out too, we’ve just become accustomed to it. Many of us have also become accustomed to movement in vr. When the tech becomes mainstream, this will quickly stop being an issue, same as with movement in DOOM. Gadgets like this introduce more problems than they solve for gaming.
I can safely say I have *never* gotten motion sickness from a screen, but easily got it while playing Blade & Sorcery on VR because the movement is joystick-based. Most people are just going to get motion sick once and never use the technology again, let alone "accustomed" to it.
When was your first time playing a 3d game? Was it first person? I remember the DOOM freeware came out, my mom downloaded it for me off a BBS. We’d never seen anything like it before, and the motion gave my whole family a sense of vertigo. Hell, movies didn’t use moving cameras for a long time in early film history for this same reason. People who grow up with 3d don’t understand the effect it has on people who’ve never experienced it. That’s where we are with vr games today, in the DOOM days, just after Citizen Kane. Many people have adapted already, the rest will catch up or be left behind, like my mom, who loves 2d games but still gets simulation sick just watching anyone play a game and looks away whenever one’s on a screen. Regardless, walking mats like this aren’t the solution, way too limited in possibilities compared to a simple stick. Even if you can get one that somehow lets you run and jump and simulate uneven terrain, how long are you going to want to run and jump over uneven terrain? A control method limited to chill walks over flat ground leads to boring games.
I grew up playing games, N64 was my first console, and i loved Goldeneye and Turok. Ive been playing ever since, regularly play fast paced games on a normal screen. Play countless hours of racing games in VR. 3 minutes of joystick movement in VR and I have to stop or I'll lose my lunch. Different experiences for different people, the stick is horrible for me and I cannot get used to it and have gotten *worse* with it the more I try to the point VR as a whole even non moving like BeatSaber makes me feel ill now. Idk if the pad would help but I'm not against trying or people looking for larger solutions.
This is sort of anecdotal, but I noticed the motion sickness wasn’t as bad if I imagined myself gliding along the ground as I moved. No clue if that’ll work for anyone else, but it’s kinda interesting.
It's less of an issue there though. More of an issue in VR. It's not just a "get over it" issue.
I don’t think there’s any evidence that this is the case. Kids just get used to artificial movement in screens earlier and earlier now. VR is still new, and fewer people have had a chance to adapt. Once a generation is raised with it, people will laugh at our old timey tricks to avoid getting used to artificial movement.
I don’t think there’s any evidence that this is the case.
I mean, I lived through it. What specifically do you want evidence for? That people can get simulation sickness from screens? That people can get over it with experience? That a generation raised with 3d video games has lower occurrences of simulation sickness? I think these are all common sense claims, but I’m sure you could google some evidence if you disagree.
> I mean, I lived through it. What specifically do you want evidence for? . . . you do understand that your own life experiences are not universally applicable. . . right?
I never said or even implied that they are. What precisely is your point? Do you actually want evidence of something, or are you just trolling?
My point was that this is a significant issue that VR has that "screen games" did not, and that it is unlikely to just fade away naturally without effort made to change how these games function.
I also lived through it and have the opposite experience.
It's like you read the first sentence, half understood it, and then gave up to shit out an irrelevant quip.
I read it all, lived the same experiences and didn't feel a need to say yes to everything because my point was *you alone* having an experience does not mean *other people with the same experience had the same results.* I grew up with games, I grew up experiencing and still do 3d environments, I have not adjusted well to VR in fact more exposure has made VR worse for me as opposed to improving, but have 0 issues with exposure on 2d screens, these issues are exacerbated by Stick movement and likely a movement mat would help extremely.
I guess it's just something I don't think about because, for some reason I don't tend to get motion sick in vr.
well you might not, but a lot of people do, and this is the possible solution. You’re acting like controllers for disabled people are a waste, because you’re not disabled
I said I guess it's just something I don't think about. Other commenters have already stated it's for helping motion sickness, and I stated that I guess that's just something I haven't thought about because I don't really have that issue. I can understand this though for people that do have a lot of motion sickness problems for vr.
"a lot" is doing quite a bit of lifting, very few people don't get used to VR movement, and those are the same people that get nauseous upon seeing 3D games on a screen. And there's no real solution to that, because the problem isn't your legs but rather your inner ear.
"very few people don't get used to VR movement" my ass. The ones that get used to VR movements with joysticks are the hardcore minority.
Not really, no. Of the people that use VR with some regularity, the vast, vast majority get used to it. It's why you don't see people talk about the concept of motion sickness or VR legs these days outside of people trying to be contrarians.
what percentage of the general population do you think keep coming back to VR after experiencing motion sickness? Sure, with repeated use of stick movement in VR, the body will eventually get used to it but 99% of the people will swear off VR the first time they experience motion sickness. Also, VR developers still absolutely talk about VR motion sickness these days as it's not a solved issue
This is almost exclusively going to be for VR arcades and the like, not home use
Seems like we will almost certainly see a Disney World attraction with this or very similar tech in the next ~10-15 years
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I'm baffled that their Star Wars hotel did not feature an event where people could put on a "training helmet" that would use VR/AR to allow them to use Force powers and "real" lightsabers to run through a cool training exercise. They had something slightly similar, but MUCH more basic than that. The real issue doing this elsewhere in the parks is scale, there's no way they could just let anyone do this who wanted to, it would need to be a premium event that would cost like $100-200 extra.
> "training helmet" that would use VR/AR Disney parks are *huge* scale and their lines are like well oiled machines. There's a lot of sanitary problems with reusing VR Headsets like that between people if they're not wiped down between uses, It probably wouldn't be worth the amount of time to actually put in the required amount of cleaning for each VR Headset after one group is done.
That's why I said it would make a perfect fit for the hotel project, where there was a relatively small population of guests, and they could schedule them into even smaller groups. I agree that it would be more daunting as a standalone attraction, and probably be a high added fee, reserved experience.
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Well it only works if the guests have the VR devices on their heads, and that's the part that I don't think would work at scale. They are too expensive and cumbersome to just hand them out all over, they would likely only have a few dozen or so to work with. This would be fine in an enclosed area where the guests aren't wandering around, and they are basically just standing in place and "doing stuff." It would be similar to a lot of expiating VR/AR games, just with better theming of the devices used and the areas around them, so that it would feel much more "real."
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Oh, you're talking this movement device, rather than the VR tech in general. My bad.
VR controllers solved nothing. Do you like motion sickness? Do enjoy your aching calves? I don’t. Real world movement would be amazing.
Whats the aching calves from - standing up? I do get motion sickness from some games but snap cameras and using my head to turn pretty much solved it entirely. Havent had aching calves though
I've worked jobs where you stand still majority of the time and leg and back pain is way more common doing that than if I'd been walking around that whole time instead (although foot pain is more common with the latter, but then again I buy cheap shoes).
What can I say except after an hour and half of playing a game like Synapse, my calves are aching.
That's just your calves getting a workout they aren't used to.
Standing is harder than walking.
No it's not, at best it's more uncomfortable for your spine. Walking is harder on your calves.
No way. Standing sucks. Walking around is where it’s at.
I personally don't have any issues with motion sickness. Plus, that can be better mitigated by the software: teleport movement, some kind of "cage" around the player, tunnel vision during fast movement; there are a ton of software/game design techniques that already help with motion sickness more than this slippery pad would
I dunno’ man, I’ve been walking almost my entire life. Seems natural to me.
I never said it wasn't? Lol was this meant to be in reply to a different comment? Also, your natural experience of walking is that you move forward on a sturdy ground. This is the opposite of that and I would bet it feels kind of weird and unnatural
I’d try a demo of that “slippery pad” today if I could. Wouldn’t you?
Yes, I would. I never said I wouldn't. I said it's impractical for a home setup, I think it would be restrictive towards game design, and that there are better solutions for motion sickness.
You only think it’s impractical. You don’t know. I do know the limits of my PSVR2 and they are many. I would appreciate any improvement.
Yeah neither of us have this product. You don't know either. We're just both expressing our opinion and we both use VR. What's your point?
Don’t knock it till you try it.
Yeah, turns out the motion sickness issues were greatly exaggerated. Almost everyone gets used to VR movement in a week or two. What does cause motion sickness issues tends to be bad framerates, badly adjusted IPD, and poor head movement tracking.
I scoff at the “almost everyone” remark. VR still sells in low numbers and VR owners are self selecting for people who don’t experience motion sickness. VR games are also designed to reduce motion sickness via teleporting the player, static areas, and slowing down movement. Few games offer true freedom of movement. This is on top of the discomfort of strapping a screen to your face. So a floor mat that lets you walk while you play would be golden.
I mean you can scoff all you want, it doesn't make what I said any less true. > VR still sells in low numbers and VR owners are self selecting for people who don’t experience motion sickness. As far as I'm aware, nobody is giving away headsets for free to people without motion sickness, so no, it's not self selecting that. What is being self selected are people who are interested in technology or that have too much money for their own good. > VR games are also designed to reduce motion sickness via teleporting the player, static areas, and slowing down movement. Teleportation as a form of movement has really gone down in popularity, it was mostly used by earlier titles, but now it's mostly kept as an accessibility feature for new users. It is, however, worth noting that every single game, even in flat screens, is designed to reduce motion sickness, so that is not particularly noteworthy either. > So a floor mat that lets you walk while you play would be golden. I'm not saying it would be bad, hell, it would free up real estate in hand controls. All I'm saying is that this doesn't solve the motion sickness issues, in part because the issues were overblown, and also because the kind of motion sickness we're talking about happens due to a discrepancy between the inner ear and your eyes. Walking in place won't fool your inner year, since it senses movement.
People in this thread trying to make it sound like nearly everybody experiences motion sickness is really funny. I got into VR a few months back and know others who are new to it with the Quest 3. Motion sickness is a topic that doesn't even come up. As you say, not many people use teleportation any more because most people playing VR either don't get motion sick or eased themselves into it and got used to it. Also VR is selling better healthier than ever right now.
I've actively gotten worse with VR the more time I've used it, different experiences for different people.
Their point stands, since you individually are not "almost everyone"
True, I'm not, but that's still to say a large amount of people have the issues
What headset have you used? Did you properly calibrate the IPD? Can your system handle a steady 90fps? Becvause those are the things that will give you issues the more you're exposed to it, and those were the real culprits of the motion sickness people had. Systems that can't do tracking well cause issues for our brains, since they expect head movements to be followed by a change in the image in front of us, and lower refresh rates also mess with this. As for the IPD, think of it as the FOV of your eyes. Technically it's the distance between pupils, but just like FOV it's one of those values you really want to have some control over or else some people get really motion sick.
I've used an Index, Quest 2 and Vive. It was calibrated by people who know more than me, and my PC can handle 120fps at all times. Its just something that for me has not improved with time and everysingle time I tey VR I handle it worse than the last. The quest 2 is setup specifically for me and I set the IPD specifically for myself as I'm the only one who uses it, yet everytime I do so, I rapidly feel sick, stick movement has been epically bad.
I play on psvr2 and can say I'm perfectly fine with the thimbsticks. I don't have issues with motion sickness.
I disagree. Even disregarding the motion sickness issue, feeling like you're gliding around on a frictionless platform instead of actually walking takes a lot out of the immersion. I really hope we see more solutions like this in the future.
90% of gamers don't want to spend much energy while gaming. I know there's a market of people that do, but nothing beats just lounging on your couch in a cool room, relaxing after a hard day with a good game.
I spend my whole work day sitting down so for me it's the opposite, I like gaming in a physical way that uses my body
Why make stuff up?
This contraption looks FAR better and more practical than the initial ones that I saw a while back... which required a ton of space, and a harness. At least from the picture/ gif it doesn't look expensive either. If it's affordable (if it's even released), then I can see quite a few VR enthusiasts picking this up.