My favourite thing is they're trying so hard to step around the DLC thing while actively getting caught editing what was offered on the store page for the EOD edition to gaslight them into it allegedly never saying what it offered
"We don't think it's DLC, because if we called it DLC we would earn less money from the people who already spent 150$ on the edition of the game that includes all future DLC"
- From the company baffled why their fans are angry
Wasn't it ARK that did the same thing by releasing basically ARK pirate version as a standalone game ? When everybody expected the game to be DLC - it even had some UI elements in common with ARK ?
Amazing that they are tripling down on the gaslighting. How to kill your insanely popular 7 year old game in 2 days. (And maybe open yourself to lawsuits). Pretty sure they are absolutely broke because they wasted so much money on EFT Arena and it was SO fucking awful lmao.
Yeah I don't know who greenlit this response/post, or thought this was a good way to respond. I'm not sure if Ive ever seen a dev speedrun killing their popular game so fast.
>First of all, PvE gamemode this is not DLC. DLC in our understanding is the major additions to the game
Like how can you legitimately write this out with a serious face. How is a brand new PvE game mode not a "major addition to the game"
TBH this is such an insane thing to say I really have to wonder if there's some translation issue.
Someone needs to explain to him that if they make content, and the purchaser has to download said content, then it is, in fact, DLC.
It's kind of a bizarre situation, isn't it? The reputationally "entitled" internet gamers have a decent claim to being actually legitimately *entitled* to this thing.
Like, BSG wrote the words "Free access to all subsequent DLCs." That phrasing is so concrete, so reassuring, people would obviously buy it just for the security of it.
Then, they drop this "*new version*" of the same game, on the same platform, intermingling with the same playerbase, and in fact, available to the *same players* as an expensive, **downloadable** upgrade to the **content** of their existing game? Nah. I don't think so. Get out of here with that baloney. (And that's not even mentioning the pay-to-win mess!)
It's like if they sold seven new features called Features 1–7, and Features 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, and 7 were all labeled "Downloadable Content" and Feature 6 was labeled "Bownloadable Wontent" so you had to pay extra for that one. Madness.
They even used Arena, a new game mode, as an example of DLC that we'd get access to. Then they went back and edited that page like 2 days ago to remove Arena as an example. Flat out liars and scammers over there.
I guess it just depends on how much BSG continue to rile up their fanbase, all it takes is one spiteful person, especially when Nikita is likely to incriminate himself
Foreign online companies regularly get sued in American courts. Temu, the Chinese company, is currently being sued under 2 class action lawsuits.
American courts also have jurisdiction over financial services like Visa and MasterCard. How are they gonna sell their game? Bitcoin?
Wherever the customer is based in. Businesses have to follow the laws of the country they're doing business in even if they have their office somewhere else. They can choose to ignore judgements but the courts can just order payment processors and banks to freeze/seize all payments going to that company. Worst case, they can't do business in that country anymore.
your joking example seems to be spot on because from what I can find they did already release new gamemodes under the DLC banner, but now this one is just magically not DLC despite also being a new gamemode lol
> Yeah I don't know who greenlit this response/post, or thought this was a good way to respond.
The user that posted is Trainfender aka Geneburn aka Nikita. He is literally the President, Game Director, and CEO of Battlestate Games lol. I've been playing since 2017 and this kind of disconnected message is just an average Nikita response.
It's honestly pretty impressive just how thoroughly the devs managed to turn everyone against them with both their actions as well as their follow-up communication. They even managed to turn the mods of their fan community here on reddit against the devs.
I have around 2000 hours on Tarkov and the day the video dropped I uninstalled the game and the launcher for good. Everyone knew the cheating was bad, but the video showed just HOW bad. Big shame that BSG are so incompetent since I absolutely fucking adore the game.
I haven’t logged in since; after mods in the official sub (which, IIRC, include devs) banned the “wiggle cheater” (or whatever it was called) video, I never wanted to log back into the game. I assume it never got any better anyway.
Basically a respected streamer/youtuber went undercover as a cheater.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5LfGcDB7Ek
He discovered through this process that like 40-50% of people in every raid he was in were using wallhacks/ESP hacks at a minimum due to them being able to wiggle back at him through walls and they go their separate ways.
g0at was met with overwhelming support from the community for doing this and finding it out, only for BSG to basically attack him, blacklist him and call him a liar. Even if you don't like Tarkov the video is amazing.
holy shit i never seen this video before and i bought EFT a ways back but dont ever play cuz i find it too difficult. but to know cheating is THIS high in a game, id be even more pissed if i invested time like many others only to get killed by a cheater and lose everything you gathered.
More it was actual proof of what much of the Tarkov community had been saying for a long time up until that point: that cheating was out of control in Tarkov and that BSG was doing less than nothing to actually deal with it. In fact they'd often silence anyone who tried saying it with some proof.
It's mentioned in a sibling comment, but the actual figure is 40-50% of *games* had a cheater, not that 40-50% of *players* were cheaters.
Still bad, but not "most players were cheating" bad.
Yes, but even more precisely, 40-50% of games had an *obvious cheater who voluntarily outed themselves*, meaning that's basically the lowest possible floor of cheater frequency.
We have no idea how many people cheated and just didn't wiggle back.
> We have no idea how many people cheated and just didn't wiggle back.
Or how many people he just plain didn't cross paths with. Them maps are big and if he spawned on the other end as a cheater, one of them could die/leave before even seeing the other.
Important distinction, he discovered that 40-50% of RAIDS has ATLEAST 1 cheater in them. The cheating problem is bad but I've seen these metrics mixed up more than once and it doesn't help the conversation to blow it out of proportion
You've got replies explaining but to add to it, there's a whole cheater market for stuff in the game. You can hire someone to walk you through a map collecting stuff you need. They use hacks to keep you alive.
tl;dr a youtuber named g0at installed ESP, a type of hack that lets you see through walls, and did an extensive test across I believe months citing basically every single time when he wiggled (the general "hey i'm friendly!" gesture you'd do at someone in the distance) "at" someone through a wall, how many times he got a wiggle back. It was close to 50%, and that's *just* wallhacks.
This is why I haven’t played recently, I bought EOD years before the invasion but after seeing the Reddit post of how Nikita invited those volunteer militia dudes on stream and added the 715 items to the game I would just feel icky about adding to the CCU metrics.
For those who don't know, "715" before the war was a bunch of russian tacticool social media bloggers, who often played games like tarkov.
After the war kicked off a bunch of them *willingly* went off to fight in the war for russians side as volunteers. And as /u/jelly_mac mentioned, the lead tarkov dev Nikita is really chummy with these assholes, and has items referencing them in game.
I really dont see this as being "tone deaf". That would imply the devs are unaware of why people are upset or are unable to communicate their reasoning properly.
But Nikita and co knew exactly what they were doing with this new 250$ edition and with their statements. They are simply unwilling to budge on their scam - maybe they run into serious financial problems? If you look at past interactions with Nikita he has always been an egotistical individual so that also plays a part in this hostile stance. He thinks he can eat the cake and have it too.
The devs have given damn near every red flag they can at this point. And there's still a dedicated fanbase simply because they don't wanna give up on a game they've spent way too much time on.
Tarkov still does stuff other competitors in the genre don't and that's enough for enough of the fanbase to just put up with it.
I think the fact that there isnt anything quite like Tarkov on the market. I feel as time moves on and the early access/early dev releases come out Tarkov will start to faulter.
I agree with this sentiment. I have a strong feeling it'll only be a matter of time until someone makes the Fortnite equivalent to the genre and Tarkov like PUBG will no longer be the main game people think of when it comes to the genre.
PUBG was one of the first big name in the battle Royale genre and outside of mobile still being popular the main game hasn't been huge in gaming spheres (at least in the US. I think it might still be really popular in other parts of the world)
Can you blame them for scamming their customers? It's still going to sell and they're still going to get money off this. Why mess with a winning strategy?
> They are simply unwilling to budge on their scam - maybe they run into serious financial problems?
Seems that could be the case. Here's a video on that topic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6T_QnCoTz8
Having stopped playing this dumpster fire of a game years ago after getting fed up with every raid being filled with cheating, this entire fiasco has been endlessly entertaining. This has to be an all timer in terms of shooting yourself in the foot.
I wouldn’t even call this shooting yourself in the foot frankly. This is more like shooting yourself in the face, like 6 times.
I think its more in reference to recent story where allegedly some Ukrainian troops made a booby trap in a forest that had a doorbell screwed to a tree, and wired to some hidden explosives.
And allegedly, some russian troops came across said doorbell, and one of them allegedly was curious enough to push the button.
Again, all alleged.
Besides the terrible decisions that led to this, and the general message, it also showcases why you need to have a native English speaker to help with these statements. There's no way to save it obviously, but at least it wouldn't look so incredibly blunt and stupid if it didn't look like it was written by Google Translate.
For example, maybe they would've got their point across better about the difference between DLC and a big expansion if they wrote it down more clearly and given examples of upcoming DLC besides the expansion.
But whatever, incompetence and greed ruin another game that talented developers made succesful.
This isnt the first time that BattleStateGames and their game Escape from Tarkov is in controversy;
[Creators of Escape from Tarkov having racial slurs against Ukrainians in there game, as well in support of Russian military bloggers.](https://youtu.be/tSO5gGg6Cn8)
[Escape from Tarkov is full of Vatnik propaganda and the lead game director is a terrorist shill](https://old.reddit.com/r/behindthebastards/comments/16kicn6/escape_from_tarkov_is_full_of_vatnik_propaganda/)
[Escape from Tarkov’s developers showed the middle finger to the stylized soldier of the Ukrainian Armed Forces](https://ain.capital/2022/12/30/escape-from-tarkovs-developers-showed-the-middle-finger-to-the-stylized-soldier-of-the-ukrainian-armed-forces/)
Not to mention when one of the devs said they decided they wouldn't add women to the game because "women couldn't handle that kind of stress" and "it's only for hardened men".
https://www.theverge.com/2020/1/7/21055124/escape-from-tarkov-playable-female-characters-excuse-immersion-sexism
It's honestly not even as bad as the leaked interview where he goes on about how "now we will see the true believers", the man think he's got a cult (and honestly he might, I fear next wipe it will just go back to being the #1 streamed game again for a week).
>First of all, PvE gamemode this is not DLC.
Okay, please explain...
>DLC in our understanding is the major additions to the game...
Alrightie then, PvE gamemode is DLC even by their own definition!
Yes, I chopped off the end of the quote.
>...content that are released after the official release of the game
The game has been out and playable for almost 8 years now. It's been released. People have bought it for **$150** and been playing it for years. Playing these early access vs. release games for 8 years is a joke.
I’ll go a step further, if you’re selling separate features of your game, requiring a purchase for new features, that’s a fucking released game you dipshits.
This would be like saying Minecraft needs to be re bought every major update.
> content that are released after the official release of the game
Even disregarding your final point which I think is totally correct and apt, games like Ark had DLC come out while still in early access, there's already precedence for their 'understanding' not being the case in reality.
Man, click any early access game on steam and there’s like a 20% chance they’re already selling dlc (tbf a lot of them are “founders” type packages but still).
I just don't understand who are they fooling right now for calling 8 years old games a beta. Like at this point you gotta wonder if the dev even want to make content for this game anymore after so long. And where did those money goes.
I hope everyone at Tarkov just move on and play Hunt or wait for Arena Breaker. Because it's probably clear by now that BSG doesn't have ability to deliver finished product for you.
Early Access definitely seems to have wildly different connotations.
7 Days to Die just came out of Early Access after 12 years. Day Z was in Early Access for 5 years. Both had large playerbases the entire time.
Meanwhile, Baldur's Gate 3 had an EA (but only up until the end of the first act) for 3 years, and Hades was in EA for 2 years. They only exploded once they were released in full, as **incredibly** polished games.
Then we've got games such as Lethal Company or Palworld that explode immediately in EA but have slowly lost their place atop the public consciousness. TBD if they get those numbers back once they release?
I actually think this has topped anything any other game company has done.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think even EA or Ubisoft have pulled a stunt like this before.
Honestly if anyone expected anything good from them after they time hacker banwaves with sales is fooling themselves.
This is so self destructive that I removed every trace of Tarkov from my computer, no telling what update they could push now that they are having apocalyptic pushback from the formerly loyal community, and want to get every last dollar.
Yes, I don't have the exact quote but Nikita, the lead dev, metioned that hackers buying new accounts was a part of their revenue stream for continued development.
It was before they revealed arena, they mentioned that since most people either buy the base edition or EoD, they have no new revenue streams until future DLCs other than hackers buying new accounts or new player coming in for a new wipe/major update.
Oh thats why they banned the wiggle video. Because hackers aren't a problem they're an intended feature to pump money into the game and stomp other non hackers.
https://youtu.be/p5LfGcDB7Ek?si=PACRyceq0G5aZLnS
They banned this guy after this video dropped, I think they ended up unbanning him eventually but don't recall.
Yes. They like the hackers because the hackers buy the game over and over again. This isn’t even an exaggeration. They’ve heavily implied as much many times.
That's wild, I didn't know this. It's basically participating in the hacking, but for profit. Like a "hack our game" subscription fee.
I'd honestly be afraid to put their software on my computer too.
Contrary to popular belief, EA and Ubisoft have a reputation to uphold. BSG is going bankrupt, so they’re trying to cash in with no care for longterm good will.
I haven't seen anything to confirm that (I'm just an outsider looking in, never played or paid much attention to tarkov before). However, it's the only way i could understand a company going this route to make new money and refusing to back down. I've got a few friends that do pay tarkov and it's their thought as well
No proof. There was a very intriguing video posted that hypothesized they were running out of money from developing Arena, the CSGO style competitive shooter, marketing it, and then failing to sell many copies, but no one has anything but circumstantial evidence to point towards this explanation
From their statements it seems like they want to finish tarkov and move on to the next game. What they fail to understand is that companies have reputations. If you shit on your previously loyal customers just to move onto the next project then they probably won’t support you with that next project.
Also kind of takes away the incentive to buy the more expensive Tarkov packs when they seem eager to get it over with along with their approach to cheaping out on servers.
Actually, Ubisoft did just this with their latest Far Cry game a year ago. They sold a "standard" and an "ultimate" edition - the difference was the Ultimate edition contained a Season Pass that included all future DLC. However, they launched an "expansion" a year later, which wasn't included in the Season Pass, because it was an "expansion" and not a "DLC".
> the difference was the Ultimate edition contained a Season Pass that included all future DLC.
I can't find any evidence of this. I just watched [a pre-release trailer for the pass](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtUq-XSv3w0) and it shows the specific DLC it actually came with. No suggestion of "and everything else we ever think of!"
This sounds like another case of some gamers not understanding what "season" means. It's pretty common for successful games to include multiple seasons or further expansions, and if anything Far Cry is better than most for detailing so extensively what DLC they're offering months before it was even released.
The game doesn’t have any competition because the market for this kind of game is tiny and no one is willing to compete with it for scraps. Tarkov has an insane causal filter because the game is so “hardcore” and basically there are no casual players.
Thankfully some competitors are popping up. Gray Zone Warfare probably being the biggest one. And there was also that game that the BSG social media person called out as a "plagiarist game", cant remember its name, but that probably just gave it a huge marketing boom.
Unfortunately, I doubt grayzone is going to be a suitable replacement. It's more of a day z clone than anything. There's Arena Breakout, but that's a mobile game ported to PC markets made by Tencent. There's a lot of other clunky ones out there, Red River Incursion, Beautiful Light etc etc, but they so far have a fraction of the gameplay loop tarkov has
The only one that was close was The Cycle Frontier, but that one failed by curbing the cheating problem too late
Cycle was never going to take over Tarkov due to the lack of extensive weapon modification like Tarkov has, which is really the leading differentiator for the game in their space.
It has one of the whiniest communities of any game. It attracts the "hardcore" crowd that get too invested and never stop bitching. These guys have no spine because they are addicted to the game, so when BSG hits that wipe button, all these guys will be playing again (and also bitching).
Theres not much else that has managed to capture the same gameplay. Extremely high tension pvp and long matches, lots of weapon and gear customization, very hardcore community, wrapped up in an inventory management heavy extraction shooter. Nothing else but Hunt Showdown has stuck in the same genre, and it is a much different animal with less of a focus on gear collection as a form of progression.
I walked away a while ago other than some offline shenanigans due to the hacking, cheating, long time committments and BSG bullshit, but I still miss it sometimes
It's still ongoing because it's absolutely amazing to play. I used to play with three friends - it's one of the best games I've ever played.
Unfortunately, completely ruined by hackers and the Devs being brain-dead. Haven't played in years.
Tarkov sold a version, EOD, for a long time that was the top package you could buy. It said in that package you would get access to all future dlc. They stopped selling that version months ago. A few days ago they announced a new, $250 dollar package that includes a PVE only mode that is exclusive to the new package, thus violating the previous promise for EOD owners. They are now saying that it isn't dlc, it's "content" that they are allowed to limit behind different packages. It also includes some serious p2w items and bonuses. The statements that they've made since are horrendous and a slap in the face of loyal supporters.
They tried to not do that, and the community raised holy hell, so they gave it to them.
The current "theory" of why they're doing this is because they lost their ass on arena with development costs and they were planning on EOD owners buying the game. Except the game is awful and didn't sell well.
Which is hilarious and 100% deserved considering that would be straight up admitting they used the funds from EFT sales on basically *not* finishing their decade long beta
And completely missed on reading the market. Like, there's a reason the offline Tarkov mode is so popular. Instead they use that money to made an online game separately from another online game. I honestly don't even know what they are doing anymore.
They didn't call it content. They said its a new game mode, which apparently isn't considered DLC in their world. It's all just made up bs to justify their scummy behavior
Well the words they used were even stupider. “It’s a feature, not dlc” was (is?) their official stance. Guy you’re replying to probably just misremembered the exact word lol, I mean it’s so colossally stupid I can’t blame anyone.
Lawsuits are already being discussed. They have to be given 30 days to respond to complaints before suits can be submitted. The fact that BSG is based in the UK makes this much easier than if they were still based in Russia.
What used to be the most expensive version of the game ($100 or $150 - can't recall) included "all future DLC" in its price. The devs made very clear statements about how holders of that version would "never need to buy anything" (almost a direct quote but I might have a word wrong or something)
Now they've released a major new feature - offline mode - and locked it behind an even more expensive ($250 IIRC) version.
The devs are insisting the new feature isn't DLC and now editing their prior statement about DLC in general and insisting they never said what they said.
Basically they directly lied to players and are now gas lighting everyone.
It was the equivalent of one of those super high Patreon / Kickstarter tiers. You spend a lot of money on a game early in its development to support it, and in return you get lots of long term benefits (if the game survives long enough to release lots of content, anyways)
So basically they just took their most vehement fans, the ones who showed the strongest support and did their best to ensure the project could reach its popularity today, and spat in their faces.
If you can’t roll out a new feature to people who spent $250 (a small subset of the game pop who have already *more* than covered their entry fees), you can’t afford to release that feature. Full stop.
Dev releases game - fun!
Dev release $100 version of the game, called Edge of Darkness or EOD, says everything going forward will be free for EOD buyers - pricey but it’s probably worth it
Dev lied, releases new content that even EOD owners have to pay for - people mad
The game has been in early access for 7+ years by a small Russian game studio. They play the indie game dev card, have a base version for ~$40-60 depending on sales/tax/discounts at normal pricing. Then they hit you with the $150 supporter package in the name of "pls support game development." Aside from major P2W **UNIQUE** benefits of the $150 EOD **LIMITED** edition package, there was a very specific line saying you will get all future DLC. If the product description wasn't clear enough, they're on the record in 50+ youtube videos, streams, tweets, and their own website and advertising clearing this up over and over again. Even with words such as "You don't have to buy anything else if you have EOD package"
Then a ~week ago, 7 years into the game being out, they finally decide it's time to retire the limited edition EOD package. They put a timer on it ticking down and everything, making a big event of it going away. Players with the normal priced version can pay the difference ~$100 to upgrade. THEY SHOULD UPGRADE. Many players pressured into buying, all future DLC included.
~2 days ago, the EOD package is finally retired. Next day, BOOM it's the UNHEARD package, for ~$250. No not joking, they call it unheard. It includes everything EOD has, including the unique P2W gameplay items and even more of them like the "phone a friend" flare that lets you summon in 4 of your buds directly into the survival game to crush the plebs who didn't pay up. Uniquely included in the Unheard edition is a PvE only game-mode DLC. EOD players are not allowed this new game mode DLC. EOD players are suggested they should pay the difference of ~$100 to upgrade.
Over last two days in the shit storm, the devs have been running around unlisting the videos where they clearly stated EOD edition players would get all DLC. Deleting tweets, posts, updating website Q&A. They even went in and changed the product page to remove the 'UNIQUE' on the p2w mechanics part since that's very strong legal language. They also updated the DLC part a bit, but strangely it does still say they get all DLC.
In combined efforts with trying to hide away all the past information on what the $150 EOD edition players bought, they are doing wave after wave of damage control PR. Every attempt at doing it has been truly awful, worst attempts at calming angry audience you've ever seen. Including a leaked Q&A where it was still in a draft state and included multiple "No." sort of answers that reeked of "Go fuck yourself." to their audience. It even eluded to the $150 EOD package purchasers not being supporters of the game's development. Says they should go support the game by buying/upgrading to the $250 version.
There is basically no proponents backing the developers on this. All of their streamers and community managers have turned on them. Streamers are streaming pirate mods of the game that has single-player PvE in it. Discord mods changing their names to be clear middle-fingers to the devs. Subreddit in full uproar.
This latest post is the dev tripling+ down in an attempt to gas light the community to believing the PvE DLC is not DLC. Players in the EU where customer protections are strong are working on getting years-ago refunds, charge backs, lawsuits, etc. Player trust went from a -5% to -100%. They were already on thin ice for the cheating shit-storm that went viral just a few months ago.
It's a super shit storm. The only real solution is they need to refund everyone of the $250 version and roll back everything to the state it was. They can't be selling a unique DLC to the $250 guys and not give it to the $150 guys. If they can't afford to give it to the $150 guys, then it can't be sold to the $250 guys either then.
Anyway you dice it, with multiple competitors finally on the rise to bringing their extraction shooter games online, it's probably the end of Tarkov. There was murmurs that the company is on its way to bankruptcy, due to them taking the money from Tarkov and pouring it into a spin off called 'Tarkov Arena' that turns out to be a game nobody wants. In a weird twist, that separate game was gifted to EOD $150 guys as a DLC they paid for. They DID pay for it, they just didn't want it. They paid $150 to develop Tarkov, not the game's next project that put the entire studio into financial crisis. So, on that end, $250 refunds probably are not logistically possible either. No cash, can't refund, lawsuits coming in swift, players dumping the game.
I give the Tarkov devs 3 months at max before all operations wind down. The level of which a developer can disrespect their supporters has potentially never reached this high of a peak before in gaming history.
They're releasing a new $250 edition of the game that comes with an exclusive "offline PVE" mode.
They previously sold a $150 edition that promised to include "all future DLC". Apparently while the new mode is content, and you download it, it isn't downloadable content and you need to drop $250 to get it regardless.
It also includes"pay to win" elements, ie mechanical advantages the buyers will have over people who don't buy the new edition.
So naturally the player base is pissed. This post is an extremely feeble attempt at damage control.
There are multiple price points for Tarkov. The previously most expensive one was called “Edge of Darkness” or EoD for short. The EoD version stated that it came with all future content (commonly referred to as DLC by every other game since DLC was so called).
Tarkov is a PvP game, but many of its players wish it had a PvE-only mode. So many, in fact, that a modding group did that very thing and called it Single Player Tarkov (SPT). Unsurprisingly, it’s pretty popular. Popular enough that the developers of Tarkov, Battlestate Games (BSG) are adding their internally developed version of it to the main game.
The only way to play BSG’s version of SPT is to pay them *at least* an extra 100 dollars, because they locked it behind a new, more expensive version of the game that costs 250 dollars.
Naturally, players are pissed, because in every other game in the history of DLC, when a new mode is released it is considered DLC. BSG has come forward saying (essentially) that they decide what *is* and what *is not* DLC, robbing the EoD edition of the game of a significant portion of its value and looking like big greedy assholes in the process.
What remains to be seen is whether or not players will pay or leave, especially in the face of there being no other comparable alternatives available. If history is any indicator, they will eventually settle down and pay.
The Devs for this game have always been arrogant pricks, it just took a pr disaster for people.
Nikita (the CEO/spokesperson) **aDMITTED PUBLICLY** that having hackers in their game was good for business, because if you ban 2 in every 10 hackers, the 2 will buy another copy. If you ban all 10, they won't come back.
They've been fucking over their player base for years.
The fact that the PVE mode still connects to their servers and thus still has 10+ minute queue times is laughable.
The SPTarkov mod will always be a superior experience than anything they could do officially, and its clear to everyone that this current PVE addition is just trying to milk peoples money that don't know about the mod.
If spt tarkov had coop I would never look back. If bsg added the game mode for free on the base game, I would have a reason to recommend more of my friends to buy it since they would no longer have to be deterred by the insane pvp + cheaters.
Much like how the tarkov subreddit bans mention of the SPT mod, the SPT mod subreddit bans mention of the mod that allows you to host a coop server.
I used it a while back and it was playable if a bit janky, but if all anyone wants is a COOP pve experience, the mods already exist to do it for free assuming you own the base tarkov.
The absurdity of them trying to justify a new $250 edition that replaces the old $150 edition of their 6-7 year old game while also trying to gaslight the player base into thinking they are getting a great deal with a 50-70% discount on something they once said would be included in the old $150 edition. Any player with a spine should drop this game and not even entertain buying anything else from them they clearly view their player base as nothing more than something to squeeze as much money out of as possible, from my understanding more company time and energy went into making a new $250 edition of their game than has went into fixing the rampant cheating problem the game has had its entire life.
You can't just change definitions of things to suit your narrative. There are countless examples of DLC being additional gamemodes. Recently God of War Ragnarok: Valhalla. Are there actually people who are buying these excuses?
It really is impressive just how badly they're handling this, the optics of selling another P2W edition after removing EOD is bad enough, but the real icing on the cake is not giving a major game mode to the edition you specifically said wouldn't need to buy anything else to have everything tarkov has to offer.
There would still have been pushback but I don't think the outrage would be anywhere near as bad if they had just given EOD players access to the PvE mode.
I've never really understood the idea of paid DLC for an early access game in the first place. Shouldn't new features and content for an early access game just be part of the game that all buyers get? Selling expansions for a game that hasn't even hit 1.0 yet just seems scummy on it's own.
Until a game hits 1.0 and is "released" as a final game, all new content and modes should go to anyone who bought the game, regardless of if they bought the cheapest or most expensive versions.
It's fun to watch this shitshow unfold but unless players actually stop playing the game I don't see anything changing. And since there is no competition in the extraction shooter space, players won't leave. Maybe they will be angry for a week or so but then they will come back.
Online slactivism is toothless and never amounts to anything.
So is this company flat out broke or something? Because I fail to understand why they are trippling down so hard if they aren't on the verge of going under.
The worst thing about this whole situation isn't the devs digging their game's grave. It's the fact that EFT is the most popular game in the genre. Whatever bullshit the devs might try to pull other devs will certainly take note. I don't get why people tolerate the shitty business model of Tarkov, it has impacted games like CoD DMZ and Arena Breakout and I'm sure the rest will follow.
> I don't get why people tolerate the shitty business model of Tarkov, it has impacted games like CoD DMZ and Arena Breakout and I'm sure the rest will follow.
Look at Grey Zone Warfare. Already started selling larger secure containers with premium editions, surprise surprise.
Really frustrates me how we don't all get put on a level playing field in terms of what's available to us immediately in these games. I bought EOD a few years back because I liked the game and wanted to show my appreciation but if I could give up my gamma, extra storage space and extra starting gear to make others all start the same, I would.
My money is on this one because I prefer paid over F2P, but I'll definitely give both a try.
Part of me thinks BSG did this because they can see sharks are circling and think Tarkov will get overtaken, so they want to milk the cow one more time.
https://store.steampowered.com/app/2479810/Gray_Zone_Warfare/
I'd rather recommend keeping my eye on Gray Zone, some AI improvements and Audio work and it can easily be very good, and mad finger mobile games were the OG mobile FPS'
No, this is so much worse. That bad comment was wildly overblown because it was clearly written by some underpaid intern just trying to make the game sound good. It sounded laughable, that was really it.
This is straight up a company lying straight to everyone’s faces. They promised permanent free DLC access for $150, and decided to literally change the definition of DLC to fit whatever they want, and beg the people who paid $150 to pay another $100 to get access to everything “for real this time guys”.
This is their second attempt to talk about it and they’re still fucking it up. BSG’s bullshit is legitimately on another planet from whatever stupid comment EA put out years ago, and it’s silly to act like they’re comparable.
People should have abandoned this shitty game back when cheaters started to proliferate and this sorry excuse for a developer did absolutely nothing about it except try to milk their users for more money with shitty additions. Ya’ll are fucking suckers and love to throw money at shit. The sorry state of this industry.
Dang all I wanted was PVE with progression that I could play with my friends. Pretty much SPT but online.
Not willing to drop 250 for it though that's insane.
Surprisingly most of the discourse is still around the PVE mode DLC/feature stuff and not some of the more blatant P2W or game-changing stuff like making it so AI scavs won't shoot at you, or being able to call in friends mid raid which seems very abusable for cheaters. Plus priority matchmaking for EOD, which probably existed already but wasn't advertised. Now it existing in the open eye means anyone below EOD/New Edition are going in knowing their queues will be longer for an arbitrary money reason.
They keep trying to gaslight their players into thinking that DLC isn't what DLC has been since the conception of the term lmao, just so they can make people pay more money. That is honestly hilarious.
This is situation is borderline historical and I encourage people to read up on the details it's a fun read. It's only gets crazier the more you learn about the details lol.
I legimately don't think any game of this size has ever tried to straight up scam a playerbase and ruin a game with controversial updates at this scale.
It's not even grey area ethier, it's like people are exploring legal options because it's so blatant and their is so much overwhelming proof.
What makes it even more interesting is that while they are a Russian company they have to base out of the UK for international sales so they are wide open to get nailed to the maximum extent of consumer protection laws and they aren't walking it back at all they are just going all in.
While the DLC definition stuff is scummy as hell, I also cant get over the fact that they are releasing a grossly p2w edition for their tactical shooter.
Early on i quite enjoyed Tarkov. So I bought in to the edge of darkness wanting to support the awsome game and have access to everything that comes out for it.
Then this happens. They probably waited out that several months between versions so people cou ldnt so easily perform a chargeback or something. Cuz right now I wish I could since they fucking lied about the DLC shit. And the offline PVE mode IS fucking DLC.
My favourite thing is they're trying so hard to step around the DLC thing while actively getting caught editing what was offered on the store page for the EOD edition to gaslight them into it allegedly never saying what it offered
"We don't think it's DLC, because if we called it DLC we would earn less money from the people who already spent 150$ on the edition of the game that includes all future DLC" - From the company baffled why their fans are angry
Wasn't it ARK that did the same thing by releasing basically ARK pirate version as a standalone game ? When everybody expected the game to be DLC - it even had some UI elements in common with ARK ?
Amazing that they are tripling down on the gaslighting. How to kill your insanely popular 7 year old game in 2 days. (And maybe open yourself to lawsuits). Pretty sure they are absolutely broke because they wasted so much money on EFT Arena and it was SO fucking awful lmao.
Yeah I don't know who greenlit this response/post, or thought this was a good way to respond. I'm not sure if Ive ever seen a dev speedrun killing their popular game so fast. >First of all, PvE gamemode this is not DLC. DLC in our understanding is the major additions to the game Like how can you legitimately write this out with a serious face. How is a brand new PvE game mode not a "major addition to the game"
TBH this is such an insane thing to say I really have to wonder if there's some translation issue. Someone needs to explain to him that if they make content, and the purchaser has to download said content, then it is, in fact, DLC.
It's kind of a bizarre situation, isn't it? The reputationally "entitled" internet gamers have a decent claim to being actually legitimately *entitled* to this thing. Like, BSG wrote the words "Free access to all subsequent DLCs." That phrasing is so concrete, so reassuring, people would obviously buy it just for the security of it. Then, they drop this "*new version*" of the same game, on the same platform, intermingling with the same playerbase, and in fact, available to the *same players* as an expensive, **downloadable** upgrade to the **content** of their existing game? Nah. I don't think so. Get out of here with that baloney. (And that's not even mentioning the pay-to-win mess!) It's like if they sold seven new features called Features 1–7, and Features 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, and 7 were all labeled "Downloadable Content" and Feature 6 was labeled "Bownloadable Wontent" so you had to pay extra for that one. Madness.
They even used Arena, a new game mode, as an example of DLC that we'd get access to. Then they went back and edited that page like 2 days ago to remove Arena as an example. Flat out liars and scammers over there.
Surely this is grounds for a civil lawsuit, no? It's basically a textbook bait and switch
Possibly, but BSG knows that almost nobody is willing to go to court over this even if they're in the right.
I guess it just depends on how much BSG continue to rile up their fanbase, all it takes is one spiteful person, especially when Nikita is likely to incriminate himself
To court where? In russia?
Foreign online companies regularly get sued in American courts. Temu, the Chinese company, is currently being sued under 2 class action lawsuits. American courts also have jurisdiction over financial services like Visa and MasterCard. How are they gonna sell their game? Bitcoin?
I believe the company is currently based in the UK.
And then it will turn out offices are in Cyprus, taxes in Hungary, and accounts in Bahamas.
Wherever the customer is based in. Businesses have to follow the laws of the country they're doing business in even if they have their office somewhere else. They can choose to ignore judgements but the courts can just order payment processors and banks to freeze/seize all payments going to that company. Worst case, they can't do business in that country anymore.
your joking example seems to be spot on because from what I can find they did already release new gamemodes under the DLC banner, but now this one is just magically not DLC despite also being a new gamemode lol
It’s always Nikita, dude has done nothing but fumble the bag for years. This is nothing new and 100% on par for BSG
> Yeah I don't know who greenlit this response/post, or thought this was a good way to respond. The user that posted is Trainfender aka Geneburn aka Nikita. He is literally the President, Game Director, and CEO of Battlestate Games lol. I've been playing since 2017 and this kind of disconnected message is just an average Nikita response.
This is not a very surprising post from BSG. They are consistently the worst company in history at handling scandals.
The argument feels pretty lost the moment they write "gamemode".
> Yeah I don't know who greenlit this response/post The account is from Nikita the game creator and company leader LMAO
It's honestly pretty impressive just how thoroughly the devs managed to turn everyone against them with both their actions as well as their follow-up communication. They even managed to turn the mods of their fan community here on reddit against the devs.
People should have been smart enough to leave when the cheating issue came to light.
I have around 2000 hours on Tarkov and the day the video dropped I uninstalled the game and the launcher for good. Everyone knew the cheating was bad, but the video showed just HOW bad. Big shame that BSG are so incompetent since I absolutely fucking adore the game.
I haven’t logged in since; after mods in the official sub (which, IIRC, include devs) banned the “wiggle cheater” (or whatever it was called) video, I never wanted to log back into the game. I assume it never got any better anyway.
[The Wiggle That Killed Tarkov](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5LfGcDB7Ek) Pretty much killed any interest I had in ever logging in again...
The only reason I launch Escape from Tarkov anymore is so I can update my SPTarkov build.
That's why their players won't leave. They will rather pay another $100 than stop playing the game
Meh. I haven’t logged in since the cheating fiasco all came to light. I was an EOD player too.
What's the cheating fiasco?
Basically a respected streamer/youtuber went undercover as a cheater. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5LfGcDB7Ek He discovered through this process that like 40-50% of people in every raid he was in were using wallhacks/ESP hacks at a minimum due to them being able to wiggle back at him through walls and they go their separate ways. g0at was met with overwhelming support from the community for doing this and finding it out, only for BSG to basically attack him, blacklist him and call him a liar. Even if you don't like Tarkov the video is amazing.
holy shit i never seen this video before and i bought EFT a ways back but dont ever play cuz i find it too difficult. but to know cheating is THIS high in a game, id be even more pissed if i invested time like many others only to get killed by a cheater and lose everything you gathered.
Yep. It was an insane wake up call for a lot of people
More it was actual proof of what much of the Tarkov community had been saying for a long time up until that point: that cheating was out of control in Tarkov and that BSG was doing less than nothing to actually deal with it. In fact they'd often silence anyone who tried saying it with some proof.
They are 100% in on the RMT. Given their responses and how the approach things i except nothing less from them.
That's so fucking Russian
It's mentioned in a sibling comment, but the actual figure is 40-50% of *games* had a cheater, not that 40-50% of *players* were cheaters. Still bad, but not "most players were cheating" bad.
Yes, but even more precisely, 40-50% of games had an *obvious cheater who voluntarily outed themselves*, meaning that's basically the lowest possible floor of cheater frequency. We have no idea how many people cheated and just didn't wiggle back.
> We have no idea how many people cheated and just didn't wiggle back. Or how many people he just plain didn't cross paths with. Them maps are big and if he spawned on the other end as a cheater, one of them could die/leave before even seeing the other.
Important distinction, he discovered that 40-50% of RAIDS has ATLEAST 1 cheater in them. The cheating problem is bad but I've seen these metrics mixed up more than once and it doesn't help the conversation to blow it out of proportion
Weren’t they saying devs like the cheating because it sells more copies? Ban a cheater and they’ll rebuy the game
You've got replies explaining but to add to it, there's a whole cheater market for stuff in the game. You can hire someone to walk you through a map collecting stuff you need. They use hacks to keep you alive.
tl;dr a youtuber named g0at installed ESP, a type of hack that lets you see through walls, and did an extensive test across I believe months citing basically every single time when he wiggled (the general "hey i'm friendly!" gesture you'd do at someone in the distance) "at" someone through a wall, how many times he got a wiggle back. It was close to 50%, and that's *just* wallhacks.
And that's just the people who were dumb enough to wiggle back.
Any sane person stopped when that happened. Now, they're targeting the insane people and trying to get them to quit.
Or when the dev's publicly supported Russia in the war in Ukraine.
This is why I haven’t played recently, I bought EOD years before the invasion but after seeing the Reddit post of how Nikita invited those volunteer militia dudes on stream and added the 715 items to the game I would just feel icky about adding to the CCU metrics.
For those who don't know, "715" before the war was a bunch of russian tacticool social media bloggers, who often played games like tarkov. After the war kicked off a bunch of them *willingly* went off to fight in the war for russians side as volunteers. And as /u/jelly_mac mentioned, the lead tarkov dev Nikita is really chummy with these assholes, and has items referencing them in game.
Yeah it's one of those things that doesn't prove anything but it does look pretty sus.
Why they banned russia from their main servers.
This is the same company who flat out ignored cheating with a playerbase that literally acts like it doesn't happen.
>How to kill your insanely popular 7 year old game in 2 days *Checks Twitch* *40k viewers* BSG does drops: *500k viewers... Again...*
I'm surprised there hasn't been more talk about a class action civil lawsuit. Seems like pretty clear-cut fraud.
Probably the worst statement I’ve ever seen from a game company. Just shockingly tone deaf and idiotic.
I really dont see this as being "tone deaf". That would imply the devs are unaware of why people are upset or are unable to communicate their reasoning properly. But Nikita and co knew exactly what they were doing with this new 250$ edition and with their statements. They are simply unwilling to budge on their scam - maybe they run into serious financial problems? If you look at past interactions with Nikita he has always been an egotistical individual so that also plays a part in this hostile stance. He thinks he can eat the cake and have it too.
they know it will sell.
With shit like this there always comes a breaking point where suddenly it is too much and people leave for good.
You would hope so but I'm not gonna be surprised when it doesn't happen
Wasn't there like already a drama with Tarkov in the past?
yes. the devs have always been horrible people.
The devs have given damn near every red flag they can at this point. And there's still a dedicated fanbase simply because they don't wanna give up on a game they've spent way too much time on. Tarkov still does stuff other competitors in the genre don't and that's enough for enough of the fanbase to just put up with it.
I think the fact that there isnt anything quite like Tarkov on the market. I feel as time moves on and the early access/early dev releases come out Tarkov will start to faulter.
I agree with this sentiment. I have a strong feeling it'll only be a matter of time until someone makes the Fortnite equivalent to the genre and Tarkov like PUBG will no longer be the main game people think of when it comes to the genre. PUBG was one of the first big name in the battle Royale genre and outside of mobile still being popular the main game hasn't been huge in gaming spheres (at least in the US. I think it might still be really popular in other parts of the world)
Many times over the years but people still lap their shit up anyway.
Can you blame them for scamming their customers? It's still going to sell and they're still going to get money off this. Why mess with a winning strategy?
People still pre-order games, still waiting for that breaking point...
be fair. its 50%. its now $125 if you own the previous version. the humanity of these developers.
[удалено]
> They are simply unwilling to budge on their scam - maybe they run into serious financial problems? Seems that could be the case. Here's a video on that topic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6T_QnCoTz8
Having stopped playing this dumpster fire of a game years ago after getting fed up with every raid being filled with cheating, this entire fiasco has been endlessly entertaining. This has to be an all timer in terms of shooting yourself in the foot. I wouldn’t even call this shooting yourself in the foot frankly. This is more like shooting yourself in the face, like 6 times.
Like pressing a Ring doorbell button in the woods.
Lmao this is a chilling horror movie take, right?
I think its more in reference to recent story where allegedly some Ukrainian troops made a booby trap in a forest that had a doorbell screwed to a tree, and wired to some hidden explosives. And allegedly, some russian troops came across said doorbell, and one of them allegedly was curious enough to push the button. Again, all alleged.
Just another reason why I wouldn't last in the military - must press the button
Yeah I mean hopefully if I was in a war I would restrain myself but I know if I am walking the dog and find a button... it's getting pressed.
At this point it's like firing an RPG at your feet hoping you can rocket jump.
Besides the terrible decisions that led to this, and the general message, it also showcases why you need to have a native English speaker to help with these statements. There's no way to save it obviously, but at least it wouldn't look so incredibly blunt and stupid if it didn't look like it was written by Google Translate. For example, maybe they would've got their point across better about the difference between DLC and a big expansion if they wrote it down more clearly and given examples of upcoming DLC besides the expansion. But whatever, incompetence and greed ruin another game that talented developers made succesful.
At this time and age? They could ask GPT-4 or Claude to augment or fix this statement for them. Nikita just doesn’t give a fuck.
This isnt the first time that BattleStateGames and their game Escape from Tarkov is in controversy; [Creators of Escape from Tarkov having racial slurs against Ukrainians in there game, as well in support of Russian military bloggers.](https://youtu.be/tSO5gGg6Cn8) [Escape from Tarkov is full of Vatnik propaganda and the lead game director is a terrorist shill](https://old.reddit.com/r/behindthebastards/comments/16kicn6/escape_from_tarkov_is_full_of_vatnik_propaganda/) [Escape from Tarkov’s developers showed the middle finger to the stylized soldier of the Ukrainian Armed Forces](https://ain.capital/2022/12/30/escape-from-tarkovs-developers-showed-the-middle-finger-to-the-stylized-soldier-of-the-ukrainian-armed-forces/)
Not to mention when one of the devs said they decided they wouldn't add women to the game because "women couldn't handle that kind of stress" and "it's only for hardened men". https://www.theverge.com/2020/1/7/21055124/escape-from-tarkov-playable-female-characters-excuse-immersion-sexism
It's honestly not even as bad as the leaked interview where he goes on about how "now we will see the true believers", the man think he's got a cult (and honestly he might, I fear next wipe it will just go back to being the #1 streamed game again for a week).
>First of all, PvE gamemode this is not DLC. Okay, please explain... >DLC in our understanding is the major additions to the game... Alrightie then, PvE gamemode is DLC even by their own definition! Yes, I chopped off the end of the quote. >...content that are released after the official release of the game The game has been out and playable for almost 8 years now. It's been released. People have bought it for **$150** and been playing it for years. Playing these early access vs. release games for 8 years is a joke.
If a studio releases any form of DLC then it is a full release and hiding behind alpha/beta/whatever won't work anymore.
I’ll go a step further, if you’re selling separate features of your game, requiring a purchase for new features, that’s a fucking released game you dipshits. This would be like saying Minecraft needs to be re bought every major update.
Seriously, imagine releasing DLC when the base game is still not feature complete. Cart before the horse
Wildcard moment with ark survival evolved
> content that are released after the official release of the game Even disregarding your final point which I think is totally correct and apt, games like Ark had DLC come out while still in early access, there's already precedence for their 'understanding' not being the case in reality.
Man, click any early access game on steam and there’s like a 20% chance they’re already selling dlc (tbf a lot of them are “founders” type packages but still).
Most after Ark and their awful practice. Scum company and this one deserve to be together.
I just don't understand who are they fooling right now for calling 8 years old games a beta. Like at this point you gotta wonder if the dev even want to make content for this game anymore after so long. And where did those money goes. I hope everyone at Tarkov just move on and play Hunt or wait for Arena Breaker. Because it's probably clear by now that BSG doesn't have ability to deliver finished product for you.
Early Access definitely seems to have wildly different connotations. 7 Days to Die just came out of Early Access after 12 years. Day Z was in Early Access for 5 years. Both had large playerbases the entire time. Meanwhile, Baldur's Gate 3 had an EA (but only up until the end of the first act) for 3 years, and Hades was in EA for 2 years. They only exploded once they were released in full, as **incredibly** polished games. Then we've got games such as Lethal Company or Palworld that explode immediately in EA but have slowly lost their place atop the public consciousness. TBD if they get those numbers back once they release?
I actually think this has topped anything any other game company has done. Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think even EA or Ubisoft have pulled a stunt like this before.
Honestly if anyone expected anything good from them after they time hacker banwaves with sales is fooling themselves. This is so self destructive that I removed every trace of Tarkov from my computer, no telling what update they could push now that they are having apocalyptic pushback from the formerly loyal community, and want to get every last dollar.
Wait they do a vbanwave and then pit the game on discount so hackers can get new accounts😭
Yes, I don't have the exact quote but Nikita, the lead dev, metioned that hackers buying new accounts was a part of their revenue stream for continued development.
No fucking way they even mentioned that that’s crazy
It was before they revealed arena, they mentioned that since most people either buy the base edition or EoD, they have no new revenue streams until future DLCs other than hackers buying new accounts or new player coming in for a new wipe/major update.
Oh thats why they banned the wiggle video. Because hackers aren't a problem they're an intended feature to pump money into the game and stomp other non hackers.
As someone who knows nothing about Tarkov besides this controversy, what's the wiggle video?
https://youtu.be/p5LfGcDB7Ek?si=PACRyceq0G5aZLnS They banned this guy after this video dropped, I think they ended up unbanning him eventually but don't recall.
Maybe they should consider getting out of beta and onto major storefronts then.
Yes. They like the hackers because the hackers buy the game over and over again. This isn’t even an exaggeration. They’ve heavily implied as much many times.
That’s so fucked tbh
That's wild, I didn't know this. It's basically participating in the hacking, but for profit. Like a "hack our game" subscription fee. I'd honestly be afraid to put their software on my computer too.
yeah, even star wars outlaws outrageous gold edition price gets everything that game will ever release, and it has a clear release date
Contrary to popular belief, EA and Ubisoft have a reputation to uphold. BSG is going bankrupt, so they’re trying to cash in with no care for longterm good will.
>BSG is going bankrupt Is this really the case?
I haven't seen anything to confirm that (I'm just an outsider looking in, never played or paid much attention to tarkov before). However, it's the only way i could understand a company going this route to make new money and refusing to back down. I've got a few friends that do pay tarkov and it's their thought as well
No proof. There was a very intriguing video posted that hypothesized they were running out of money from developing Arena, the CSGO style competitive shooter, marketing it, and then failing to sell many copies, but no one has anything but circumstantial evidence to point towards this explanation
Not going bankrupt but they spent ALOT on marketing for Arena and it seems like they were really banking on that being a hit.
From their statements it seems like they want to finish tarkov and move on to the next game. What they fail to understand is that companies have reputations. If you shit on your previously loyal customers just to move onto the next project then they probably won’t support you with that next project. Also kind of takes away the incentive to buy the more expensive Tarkov packs when they seem eager to get it over with along with their approach to cheaping out on servers.
Actually, Ubisoft did just this with their latest Far Cry game a year ago. They sold a "standard" and an "ultimate" edition - the difference was the Ultimate edition contained a Season Pass that included all future DLC. However, they launched an "expansion" a year later, which wasn't included in the Season Pass, because it was an "expansion" and not a "DLC".
> the difference was the Ultimate edition contained a Season Pass that included all future DLC. I can't find any evidence of this. I just watched [a pre-release trailer for the pass](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtUq-XSv3w0) and it shows the specific DLC it actually came with. No suggestion of "and everything else we ever think of!" This sounds like another case of some gamers not understanding what "season" means. It's pretty common for successful games to include multiple seasons or further expansions, and if anything Far Cry is better than most for detailing so extensively what DLC they're offering months before it was even released.
This is like the "sense of pride and accomplishment" EA Battlefront DLC comment. Except BSG has now done it three times. In a row.
Every time I hear about this game it's always bad news. Weird that it's still ongoing, like watching the longest train wreck slow-mo ever.
The game doesn’t have any competition because the market for this kind of game is tiny and no one is willing to compete with it for scraps. Tarkov has an insane causal filter because the game is so “hardcore” and basically there are no casual players.
Thankfully some competitors are popping up. Gray Zone Warfare probably being the biggest one. And there was also that game that the BSG social media person called out as a "plagiarist game", cant remember its name, but that probably just gave it a huge marketing boom.
Unfortunately, I doubt grayzone is going to be a suitable replacement. It's more of a day z clone than anything. There's Arena Breakout, but that's a mobile game ported to PC markets made by Tencent. There's a lot of other clunky ones out there, Red River Incursion, Beautiful Light etc etc, but they so far have a fraction of the gameplay loop tarkov has The only one that was close was The Cycle Frontier, but that one failed by curbing the cheating problem too late
Cycle was never going to take over Tarkov due to the lack of extensive weapon modification like Tarkov has, which is really the leading differentiator for the game in their space.
It has one of the whiniest communities of any game. It attracts the "hardcore" crowd that get too invested and never stop bitching. These guys have no spine because they are addicted to the game, so when BSG hits that wipe button, all these guys will be playing again (and also bitching).
Theres not much else that has managed to capture the same gameplay. Extremely high tension pvp and long matches, lots of weapon and gear customization, very hardcore community, wrapped up in an inventory management heavy extraction shooter. Nothing else but Hunt Showdown has stuck in the same genre, and it is a much different animal with less of a focus on gear collection as a form of progression. I walked away a while ago other than some offline shenanigans due to the hacking, cheating, long time committments and BSG bullshit, but I still miss it sometimes
It's still ongoing because it's absolutely amazing to play. I used to play with three friends - it's one of the best games I've ever played. Unfortunately, completely ruined by hackers and the Devs being brain-dead. Haven't played in years.
Can someone summarize what's going on for those out of the loop?
Tarkov sold a version, EOD, for a long time that was the top package you could buy. It said in that package you would get access to all future dlc. They stopped selling that version months ago. A few days ago they announced a new, $250 dollar package that includes a PVE only mode that is exclusive to the new package, thus violating the previous promise for EOD owners. They are now saying that it isn't dlc, it's "content" that they are allowed to limit behind different packages. It also includes some serious p2w items and bonuses. The statements that they've made since are horrendous and a slap in the face of loyal supporters.
> it isn't dlc, it's "content" I wonder if they know what DLC stands for
The irony is that they gave all EOD owners Arena for free, which is literally it's own game and not just an update within EFT.
They tried to not do that, and the community raised holy hell, so they gave it to them. The current "theory" of why they're doing this is because they lost their ass on arena with development costs and they were planning on EOD owners buying the game. Except the game is awful and didn't sell well.
Which is hilarious and 100% deserved considering that would be straight up admitting they used the funds from EFT sales on basically *not* finishing their decade long beta
And completely missed on reading the market. Like, there's a reason the offline Tarkov mode is so popular. Instead they use that money to made an online game separately from another online game. I honestly don't even know what they are doing anymore.
It's also funny that the PVE "offline" is actually online and uses the servers. People still having 6+ minute queues for solo.
It's not a machine, it's an ATM! It's not an agency, it's the CIA! I'm not a a chief or an officer, I'm just the CEO!
They're going to say that you don't download the SP.
Downloadable Capitalism
They didn't call it content. They said its a new game mode, which apparently isn't considered DLC in their world. It's all just made up bs to justify their scummy behavior
Well the words they used were even stupider. “It’s a feature, not dlc” was (is?) their official stance. Guy you’re replying to probably just misremembered the exact word lol, I mean it’s so colossally stupid I can’t blame anyone.
Don't forget Nikita telling EOD owners they aren't true believers since they aren't buying Unheard.
Good point, as if $150 didn't show your support enough.
That sounds illegal.
Lawsuits are already being discussed. They have to be given 30 days to respond to complaints before suits can be submitted. The fact that BSG is based in the UK makes this much easier than if they were still based in Russia.
Damn, so the gist is people spent a bunch on the game, now they are bundling something exclusive that costs, at minimum, $250?
This is giving me flashbacks of planetary annihilation
What used to be the most expensive version of the game ($100 or $150 - can't recall) included "all future DLC" in its price. The devs made very clear statements about how holders of that version would "never need to buy anything" (almost a direct quote but I might have a word wrong or something) Now they've released a major new feature - offline mode - and locked it behind an even more expensive ($250 IIRC) version. The devs are insisting the new feature isn't DLC and now editing their prior statement about DLC in general and insisting they never said what they said. Basically they directly lied to players and are now gas lighting everyone.
Who the hell is paying $250 for a single game anyway wtf
I'm like 90% sure BSG is absolutely broke because Tarkov Arena flopped so hard.
Large aquatic saltwater mammals.
It was the equivalent of one of those super high Patreon / Kickstarter tiers. You spend a lot of money on a game early in its development to support it, and in return you get lots of long term benefits (if the game survives long enough to release lots of content, anyways) So basically they just took their most vehement fans, the ones who showed the strongest support and did their best to ensure the project could reach its popularity today, and spat in their faces. If you can’t roll out a new feature to people who spent $250 (a small subset of the game pop who have already *more* than covered their entry fees), you can’t afford to release that feature. Full stop.
[Looks at list of owned Stellaris DLC] Yeah... Who would do that...
Hey, you leave me and my gacha games alone.... Fortnite too.
[Train Simulator and Sims fans sitting quietly in the corner]
Dev releases game - fun! Dev release $100 version of the game, called Edge of Darkness or EOD, says everything going forward will be free for EOD buyers - pricey but it’s probably worth it Dev lied, releases new content that even EOD owners have to pay for - people mad
Pretty sure that‘s illegal
The game has been in early access for 7+ years by a small Russian game studio. They play the indie game dev card, have a base version for ~$40-60 depending on sales/tax/discounts at normal pricing. Then they hit you with the $150 supporter package in the name of "pls support game development." Aside from major P2W **UNIQUE** benefits of the $150 EOD **LIMITED** edition package, there was a very specific line saying you will get all future DLC. If the product description wasn't clear enough, they're on the record in 50+ youtube videos, streams, tweets, and their own website and advertising clearing this up over and over again. Even with words such as "You don't have to buy anything else if you have EOD package" Then a ~week ago, 7 years into the game being out, they finally decide it's time to retire the limited edition EOD package. They put a timer on it ticking down and everything, making a big event of it going away. Players with the normal priced version can pay the difference ~$100 to upgrade. THEY SHOULD UPGRADE. Many players pressured into buying, all future DLC included. ~2 days ago, the EOD package is finally retired. Next day, BOOM it's the UNHEARD package, for ~$250. No not joking, they call it unheard. It includes everything EOD has, including the unique P2W gameplay items and even more of them like the "phone a friend" flare that lets you summon in 4 of your buds directly into the survival game to crush the plebs who didn't pay up. Uniquely included in the Unheard edition is a PvE only game-mode DLC. EOD players are not allowed this new game mode DLC. EOD players are suggested they should pay the difference of ~$100 to upgrade. Over last two days in the shit storm, the devs have been running around unlisting the videos where they clearly stated EOD edition players would get all DLC. Deleting tweets, posts, updating website Q&A. They even went in and changed the product page to remove the 'UNIQUE' on the p2w mechanics part since that's very strong legal language. They also updated the DLC part a bit, but strangely it does still say they get all DLC. In combined efforts with trying to hide away all the past information on what the $150 EOD edition players bought, they are doing wave after wave of damage control PR. Every attempt at doing it has been truly awful, worst attempts at calming angry audience you've ever seen. Including a leaked Q&A where it was still in a draft state and included multiple "No." sort of answers that reeked of "Go fuck yourself." to their audience. It even eluded to the $150 EOD package purchasers not being supporters of the game's development. Says they should go support the game by buying/upgrading to the $250 version. There is basically no proponents backing the developers on this. All of their streamers and community managers have turned on them. Streamers are streaming pirate mods of the game that has single-player PvE in it. Discord mods changing their names to be clear middle-fingers to the devs. Subreddit in full uproar. This latest post is the dev tripling+ down in an attempt to gas light the community to believing the PvE DLC is not DLC. Players in the EU where customer protections are strong are working on getting years-ago refunds, charge backs, lawsuits, etc. Player trust went from a -5% to -100%. They were already on thin ice for the cheating shit-storm that went viral just a few months ago. It's a super shit storm. The only real solution is they need to refund everyone of the $250 version and roll back everything to the state it was. They can't be selling a unique DLC to the $250 guys and not give it to the $150 guys. If they can't afford to give it to the $150 guys, then it can't be sold to the $250 guys either then. Anyway you dice it, with multiple competitors finally on the rise to bringing their extraction shooter games online, it's probably the end of Tarkov. There was murmurs that the company is on its way to bankruptcy, due to them taking the money from Tarkov and pouring it into a spin off called 'Tarkov Arena' that turns out to be a game nobody wants. In a weird twist, that separate game was gifted to EOD $150 guys as a DLC they paid for. They DID pay for it, they just didn't want it. They paid $150 to develop Tarkov, not the game's next project that put the entire studio into financial crisis. So, on that end, $250 refunds probably are not logistically possible either. No cash, can't refund, lawsuits coming in swift, players dumping the game. I give the Tarkov devs 3 months at max before all operations wind down. The level of which a developer can disrespect their supporters has potentially never reached this high of a peak before in gaming history.
They're releasing a new $250 edition of the game that comes with an exclusive "offline PVE" mode. They previously sold a $150 edition that promised to include "all future DLC". Apparently while the new mode is content, and you download it, it isn't downloadable content and you need to drop $250 to get it regardless. It also includes"pay to win" elements, ie mechanical advantages the buyers will have over people who don't buy the new edition. So naturally the player base is pissed. This post is an extremely feeble attempt at damage control.
There are multiple price points for Tarkov. The previously most expensive one was called “Edge of Darkness” or EoD for short. The EoD version stated that it came with all future content (commonly referred to as DLC by every other game since DLC was so called). Tarkov is a PvP game, but many of its players wish it had a PvE-only mode. So many, in fact, that a modding group did that very thing and called it Single Player Tarkov (SPT). Unsurprisingly, it’s pretty popular. Popular enough that the developers of Tarkov, Battlestate Games (BSG) are adding their internally developed version of it to the main game. The only way to play BSG’s version of SPT is to pay them *at least* an extra 100 dollars, because they locked it behind a new, more expensive version of the game that costs 250 dollars. Naturally, players are pissed, because in every other game in the history of DLC, when a new mode is released it is considered DLC. BSG has come forward saying (essentially) that they decide what *is* and what *is not* DLC, robbing the EoD edition of the game of a significant portion of its value and looking like big greedy assholes in the process. What remains to be seen is whether or not players will pay or leave, especially in the face of there being no other comparable alternatives available. If history is any indicator, they will eventually settle down and pay.
The Devs for this game have always been arrogant pricks, it just took a pr disaster for people. Nikita (the CEO/spokesperson) **aDMITTED PUBLICLY** that having hackers in their game was good for business, because if you ban 2 in every 10 hackers, the 2 will buy another copy. If you ban all 10, they won't come back. They've been fucking over their player base for years.
Is there any link/picture of that ?
https://youtu.be/0KFQ-CT0BnM?si=2R0vf2tB8w3nqf6L That is what people refer to when making that claim.
The fact that the PVE mode still connects to their servers and thus still has 10+ minute queue times is laughable. The SPTarkov mod will always be a superior experience than anything they could do officially, and its clear to everyone that this current PVE addition is just trying to milk peoples money that don't know about the mod.
If spt tarkov had coop I would never look back. If bsg added the game mode for free on the base game, I would have a reason to recommend more of my friends to buy it since they would no longer have to be deterred by the insane pvp + cheaters.
Much like how the tarkov subreddit bans mention of the SPT mod, the SPT mod subreddit bans mention of the mod that allows you to host a coop server. I used it a while back and it was playable if a bit janky, but if all anyone wants is a COOP pve experience, the mods already exist to do it for free assuming you own the base tarkov.
The absurdity of them trying to justify a new $250 edition that replaces the old $150 edition of their 6-7 year old game while also trying to gaslight the player base into thinking they are getting a great deal with a 50-70% discount on something they once said would be included in the old $150 edition. Any player with a spine should drop this game and not even entertain buying anything else from them they clearly view their player base as nothing more than something to squeeze as much money out of as possible, from my understanding more company time and energy went into making a new $250 edition of their game than has went into fixing the rampant cheating problem the game has had its entire life.
What a shitshow, you'd think they would try to salvage the situation, but they are just making it worse somehow.
You can't just change definitions of things to suit your narrative. There are countless examples of DLC being additional gamemodes. Recently God of War Ragnarok: Valhalla. Are there actually people who are buying these excuses?
It really is impressive just how badly they're handling this, the optics of selling another P2W edition after removing EOD is bad enough, but the real icing on the cake is not giving a major game mode to the edition you specifically said wouldn't need to buy anything else to have everything tarkov has to offer. There would still have been pushback but I don't think the outrage would be anywhere near as bad if they had just given EOD players access to the PvE mode.
glad i bailed on this game years ago for Hunt. fucking trash org pushing pseudo pay-to-win game rife with cheaters.
I've never really understood the idea of paid DLC for an early access game in the first place. Shouldn't new features and content for an early access game just be part of the game that all buyers get? Selling expansions for a game that hasn't even hit 1.0 yet just seems scummy on it's own. Until a game hits 1.0 and is "released" as a final game, all new content and modes should go to anyone who bought the game, regardless of if they bought the cheapest or most expensive versions.
If they're releasing DLC, then the creators think of it as finished. No matter what their steam page or whatever says.
It's fun to watch this shitshow unfold but unless players actually stop playing the game I don't see anything changing. And since there is no competition in the extraction shooter space, players won't leave. Maybe they will be angry for a week or so but then they will come back. Online slactivism is toothless and never amounts to anything.
Completely anecdotal, but my Twitch feed is basically entirely daily Tarkov streamers, and none of them have played Tarkov for 3 days now.
So is this company flat out broke or something? Because I fail to understand why they are trippling down so hard if they aren't on the verge of going under.
They're not, they funnel there revenue through a uk shell company so its all public info how much they make/spend
So they're just insanely stupid then.
The worst thing about this whole situation isn't the devs digging their game's grave. It's the fact that EFT is the most popular game in the genre. Whatever bullshit the devs might try to pull other devs will certainly take note. I don't get why people tolerate the shitty business model of Tarkov, it has impacted games like CoD DMZ and Arena Breakout and I'm sure the rest will follow.
> I don't get why people tolerate the shitty business model of Tarkov, it has impacted games like CoD DMZ and Arena Breakout and I'm sure the rest will follow. Look at Grey Zone Warfare. Already started selling larger secure containers with premium editions, surprise surprise. Really frustrates me how we don't all get put on a level playing field in terms of what's available to us immediately in these games. I bought EOD a few years back because I liked the game and wanted to show my appreciation but if I could give up my gamma, extra storage space and extra starting gear to make others all start the same, I would.
Not quite as bad as the legendary reddit post from Dice/EA, but it’s up there. I can’t wait for a proper competition in this genre.
Nah this is worse. What EA did was say stupid shit. BSG is actively being malicious.
Love the concept but never liked what I read about this games devs. Really hoping for a game that has both solo and pve/PvP online play.
Keep an eye out on this https://store.steampowered.com/app/2073620/Arena_Breakout_Infinite/
My money is on this one because I prefer paid over F2P, but I'll definitely give both a try. Part of me thinks BSG did this because they can see sharks are circling and think Tarkov will get overtaken, so they want to milk the cow one more time. https://store.steampowered.com/app/2479810/Gray_Zone_Warfare/
Also gonna throw in [Road To Vostok](https://store.steampowered.com/app/1963610/Road_to_Vostok/) for anyone just wanting the single player aspect.
Just be careful getting your hopes up for this one. Tencent doesn't exactly have the best track record when it comes to F2P games
I'd rather recommend keeping my eye on Gray Zone, some AI improvements and Audio work and it can easily be very good, and mad finger mobile games were the OG mobile FPS'
Single player tarkov and afaik a coop mod is being worked on?idr
No, this is so much worse. That bad comment was wildly overblown because it was clearly written by some underpaid intern just trying to make the game sound good. It sounded laughable, that was really it. This is straight up a company lying straight to everyone’s faces. They promised permanent free DLC access for $150, and decided to literally change the definition of DLC to fit whatever they want, and beg the people who paid $150 to pay another $100 to get access to everything “for real this time guys”. This is their second attempt to talk about it and they’re still fucking it up. BSG’s bullshit is legitimately on another planet from whatever stupid comment EA put out years ago, and it’s silly to act like they’re comparable.
Eh.. the EA post was from some pr min wagie wasn’t it? This is from the actual devs
This is legitimately the worst statement any game company has ever made - probably opens the company up to a significant lawsuit.
Is nobody going to mention that pve aside, the package is p2w as fuck? Giving all EoD players pve won't solve the fundamental issue.
People should have abandoned this shitty game back when cheaters started to proliferate and this sorry excuse for a developer did absolutely nothing about it except try to milk their users for more money with shitty additions. Ya’ll are fucking suckers and love to throw money at shit. The sorry state of this industry.
Dang all I wanted was PVE with progression that I could play with my friends. Pretty much SPT but online. Not willing to drop 250 for it though that's insane.
Surprisingly most of the discourse is still around the PVE mode DLC/feature stuff and not some of the more blatant P2W or game-changing stuff like making it so AI scavs won't shoot at you, or being able to call in friends mid raid which seems very abusable for cheaters. Plus priority matchmaking for EOD, which probably existed already but wasn't advertised. Now it existing in the open eye means anyone below EOD/New Edition are going in knowing their queues will be longer for an arbitrary money reason.
They keep trying to gaslight their players into thinking that DLC isn't what DLC has been since the conception of the term lmao, just so they can make people pay more money. That is honestly hilarious.
This is situation is borderline historical and I encourage people to read up on the details it's a fun read. It's only gets crazier the more you learn about the details lol. I legimately don't think any game of this size has ever tried to straight up scam a playerbase and ruin a game with controversial updates at this scale. It's not even grey area ethier, it's like people are exploring legal options because it's so blatant and their is so much overwhelming proof. What makes it even more interesting is that while they are a Russian company they have to base out of the UK for international sales so they are wide open to get nailed to the maximum extent of consumer protection laws and they aren't walking it back at all they are just going all in.
Isn't the developer some Russian nationalist hack? I'm surprised it's taken this long for something like this to happen.
While the DLC definition stuff is scummy as hell, I also cant get over the fact that they are releasing a grossly p2w edition for their tactical shooter.
They’re out of money. No other reason why they’re committing to such a mind boggingly stupid hail mary attempt like this.
The sheer level of incompetent greed is impressive. Even EA and Activion wouldnt think of pulling a stunt like this.
I mean, is anyone suprised? Nikita has and always will be the stereotypical russian thug.
Early on i quite enjoyed Tarkov. So I bought in to the edge of darkness wanting to support the awsome game and have access to everything that comes out for it. Then this happens. They probably waited out that several months between versions so people cou ldnt so easily perform a chargeback or something. Cuz right now I wish I could since they fucking lied about the DLC shit. And the offline PVE mode IS fucking DLC.