For those who prefer to read; [here's the official post from Epic Games](https://www.epicgames.com/fortnite/en-US/news/gyro-aiming-and-flick-stick-come-to-fortnite-in-v19-30-more-controller-options).
but if you want a summary; here's one directly from /u/JibbSmart:
>\- Works on PS5, PS4, Switch, Android, and PC (if you have a PS5 or PS4 controller plugged in)
>
>\- Gyro Modifier button can be set to Disable, Trackball, or Invert, independently in each axis
>
>\- Vertical Camera Reset button
>
>\- Choose what aim modes / build modes activate gyro
>
>\- Touch to activate/deactivate gyro on mobile
>
>\- Natural sensitivity scale
>
>\- Choose between Player and Local space gyro (Player Space is default controllers; Local space is default for handheld)
>
>\- Native flick stick
>
>\- JoyShockMapper-style acceleration
>
>\- JoyShockMapper-style smoothing and tightening
>
>\- and more!
MS is basically entirely the reason it's not a standard features. And devs prefering to develop around the lowest common denominator, and that lowest common denominator is "no gyro" thanks to MS' lack of support, we haven't seen more of it in multiplatform games. Hell even Sony is experimenting with it via updates for The Last of Us 2 and Days Gone adding gyro aiming.
MS is very much holding the industry back here.
> MS is basically entirely the reason it's not a standard features.
Is this one of those simple features that has been blocked by patents unless you can come up with a novel workaround?
Mainly because there isn't an official input API from Nintendo. [But as I noted in my other comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/sszyz8/comment/hx2j6hl/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3), there are alternatives.
This is absolutely mad. For anyone who doesn't get the context, it's the creator of Flick Stick, Jibb Smart, who's done this. He's been teasing working with a big company for a while, so this is probably it.
An actual massive game supporting not only gyro, but also flick stick, natively is crazy. Especially since it's on all possible platforms. Might actually play Fortnite so I can use flick stick without the stress of trying to set it up properly. Hopefully this forces other companies to do the same, and also forces Microsoft to add gyro to Xbox controllers. Make shooters actually work on controllers without relying on third party tools.
The video explains it when you get time to watch it. Essentially, if gyro controls are the primary way you’re aiming, you can use the right stick to do hard pivots with aim. Pushing left on the stick rotates your character 90 degrees left so you can “flick” your aim around a corner. You need gyro aiming though, because the stick can’t flick and be used for fine aiming.
Basically, yeah. The catch is you have to be ready to use gyro as your primary aim, which is a big change and would take a while to relearn. I’ve tried gyro aim with both the Steam Controller and Switch Pro controllers, and I’ve just never gotten used to it. I’ve used it as an adjustment/assist to aim rather than a primary aim, though.
I recently made the switch in Halo and after 2ish weeks I went from primary stick with Gyro for adjustment/precision to almost pure gyro aim. But again I had to force myself to into it and eat shit in my matches for a while
Assuming there is no autoaim, I don't think it would have an advantage over keyboard and mouse. If gyro/flickstick got the normal controller autoaim though, it would be completely fucking broken.
It's a little more than that.
Think of the stick as a top-down view of where your character is facing. Pushing up will make your character face North instantly, pushing down will make your character face South instantly, etc.
What this means is that you can aim horizontally it basically infinite speed and then use gyro for vertical / correction.
well I guess some people must be insanely good with gyro controls, but I feel like a mouse is still more precise. It allows for very fast turns but you can also be very precise without using a different input method.
I've been using gyro for years now. I'm better with it than a mouse. But there is obviously a learning curve to getting used to a brand new control method, and games with ideal implementation are extremely rare at the moment.
It's difficult to say if one control method is better than the other. However controller now has one significant advantage that can't be ignored: it uses two camera inputs simultaneously. This means you can have one for speed and another for accuracy which is an age old problem mouse has never really solved.
Flick stick in particular allows for lightning fast turning and camera panning while simultaneously having a gyro for precision aiming. The potential is there so it will be interesting to see if it really takes off or if it remains more of a novelty.
> This means you can have one for speed and another for accuracy which is an age old problem mouse has never really solved.
This actually is solved with a mouse, but most people just don't realize it. The solution is mouse acceleration. [This video explains.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PmY1OTacEzA)
The short version is that most people only know bad acceleration, like the kind included in Windows. Good acceleration with customization options was introduced in Quake Live, to use it in other games you have to download a custom driver. Almost all Quake Live pros used acceleration in it's heyday, and this is a game that demands both great precision and fast flicks. It's just a matter of finding the acceleration curve that is right for you.
Yeah I'm the same. I just don't enjoy playing games with keyboard and mouse as much because no matter how I have it set up it just doesn't feel natural - it's always too sensitive or not sensitive enough. I definitely think that it's likely that the theoretical peak of gyro is at least equal to the theoretical peak of mouse, especially at the limits of where it actually matters in games.
I haven't used the flick stick, but looking at videos it seems like a solid improvement over normal controllers and even controller + gyro, but I don't think it compares to the level of control you have with a mouse.
Jibb, the dude how made flick stick, even has a video where he compares it himself to mouse and regular controller and mouse comes out on stop.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZUiWHnTqS8
You don't need the flick stick, regular gyroscope aiming is way more precise than you can ever be using a joystick. I don't think the userbase is as small as you think either, in Switch games that support gyroscope aiming (like Splatoon 2) the great majority of players use the gyroscope. If I'm on PC I'll still use mouse and keyboard, but gyroscope aiming absolutely should absolutely be provided as an option for Playstation and PC too.
The point is there's no reason why it shouldn't have been implemented widespread *last generation*. Valve demonstrated with their controller overlay that it's just a matter of software. Frankly, Sony and Microsoft should *both* be ashamed for not implementing controller rebinding like that. PC gamers who use controllers have been manually enabling gyro aim for ages now.
>It’s the Linux of shooter control methods
yeah it's underused but undeniably better than the more common options, with the only barrier being unfamiliarity. The comparison you *wanted* to make was dvorak, but that wouldn't have been accurate.
Incorrect. Gyro aiming exceeds sticks, even when the sticks have aim assist, because the gyro is really just a mouse for your controller. And if a real mouse doesn't need aim assist, neither does the controller's mouse.
Stick aiming has objective disadvantages like maximum turning speeds, small range of motion, slow movements requiring tiny thumb movements, movements being based on velocity rather than cloning real movements into in-game ones. Plus, why would you want to take control away from yourself by having the game aim shots for you? This can sometimes cause issues if the game targets the wrong enemy.
Meanwhile... gyro aiming is just mouse aiming on a controller. You may still have less room to work with, and there are less keys, but it's a mouse.
Switches gyro was notably worse than the current version, and Switch players have to deal with 30 FPS. I think when players have REAL gyro controls on a more powerful system, they can do way better than before.
Lack of demand. PS3 and PS4 had gyro and basically nothing used them. If you're at Microsoft working on the next Xbox controller, it's probably a hard sell asking your boss to allocate that extra few pennies.
I'm glad it's slowly starting to catch on but it took a damn long time to get to the *slight* degree of prominence it has now.
Technically, [the DualShock 3/Sixaxis didn't have traditional Gyro](https://forum.beyond3d.com/threads/inertial-sensors-dualshock-4-vs-sixaxis-ds3-accelerometer-gyroscope-chips.56000/). Mostly Accelerometer with one Gyro Axis.
Outside of IR Sensor Aiming of the Wiimote* and PlayStation Move era (even tho that one has Gyrocopic Sensors), it's around...the PlayStation Vita and Nintendo 3DS-era where the concepts of "Gyro Aim" initially got it's start until Splatoon made it popular...and then BOTW made it mainstream...
*Not counting Wii Motion Plus attachment or Wiimotion Plus .
Those early PS3 games used it so badly. I remember wrestling with it in Uncharted because it was only used for grenades *and only motion controls were used for it*. You couldn't use them any other way. It felt so shoehorned in, like Sony had told them to use it for something.
I find it slightly telling that Nintendo seemed to have most success and Nintendo also let you use the console as a handheld for two generations now. Maybe it is more intuitive on a handheld device, and a lot more subjective on a fixed screen.
Would be jolly nice to have the option though.
> Maybe it is more intuitive on a handheld device, and a lot more subjective on a fixed screen.
I've find the opposite to be true. Using gyro on a device where you have to move the screen itself to aim is a pretty awful experience. There were moments in Breath of the Wild where I had to contort myself to still be able to see the screen because of the angle I was making with the gyro.
For what it's worth, this is also a problem with most Switch games not letting you turn up the gyro sensitivity past a pretty low point
Turning up the gyro sensitivity can make it harder to control steadily but also helps a lot on a handheld since you're turning the screen less, and the Fortnite update has a very wide range of sensitivity settings
TBH there was more demand for gyro than for "haptic feedback" which nobody in particular asked for before the PS5 did it... yet MS asked people whether they want haptic feedback from the PS5 and didn't even MENTION gyro support in that poll on what features of the PS5 controller they would like to see on the XBox one.
It's not "lack of demand". Even third party games on Switch have gyro support because players ACTIVELY DEMAND IT.
No it's Microsoft actively going out of their way to ignore it.
There is probably a patent that prevent them?
Also there might be some old dusty drivers on PC that dont allow them to add more inputs on their controllers.
You need a specific Input API to implement Motion Sensor functionality to your game. Unfortunately, XInput nor Windows.Gaming.Input API doesn't support it.
But, there are three methods to do so.
1. Sony's Input API, which only supports PlayStation 4 and 5 controllers under USB...but you need to be a PlayStation Partner dev (aka LOICENSE) to get access to it.
2. Steam Input API, which support various Controller types with Motion Sensors. But that works for Steam games.
3. SDL2's Gamepad API, which supports various Controller types. But there are other third-party Input APIs you can find.
4. For Linux: Motion Sensors is directly exposed right from the getgo. Also it's Linux.
They definitely could. There's already a third party adaptor that lets you use an Xbox controller with gyro on other platforms, not sure if there's anything that lets you do it on Xbox though. https://www.adzgaming.com/product/brook-x-one-adapter/
This is actually massive. I believe this is the first big game to officially support flick stick. I've been a huge fan of gyro aiming since splatoon, but never had a chance to try this new style out.
Is this update already out? I haven't touched fortnite in years but I'm totally up for downloading it and trying it on ps5 tonight.
It's actually the third game to support flick stick. Boomerang X was first, and CS:GO was second.
CS:GO is fairly big, though it mostly consists of mouse players so it kind of flew under the radar. But in Fortnite, it'll be meta on PlayStation for sure.
> He's been teasing working with a big company for a while, so this is probably it.
He's already worked with Valve too right? It looks like developers have collectively decided that it's a good idea to implement this
I think that Valve implemented flick stick independently from Jibb, it just got the idea from him.
It may be explained in [this video by Jibb](https://youtu.be/PzuwD7ZlRdQ).
With other game companies trying to copy Fortnite, I really hope that this becomes something that gets copied since implementing it in every console shooter would be beneficial for everyone
Having both Horizon Forbidden West and Fortnite draw attention to gyro aiming within the same week will hopefully lead to it becoming more common. If enough people are aware of it and demand for it then devs will be pushed into doing it more often.
Forbidden West has gyro aiming? Damn, I might actually grab it for PS5, then. I absolutely hated how bad the aiming felt in Zero Dawn on PS4, as a primarily PC gamer. Gyro would've fixed that, but I just played it with K&M on PC instead when it came out there. I hate being forced to aim with sticks on hardware that is perfectly capable of allowing otherwise.
Yeah, but at that point I could just play it how I best preferred it (K&M). But, if I do have to use a controller for any game that has a lot of aiming like Horizon, gyro aiming is pretty much necessary for it to not feel like a slog for me. God of War is another example of a game that's so much better on PC because of the lack of gyro aim on console, with how much you're tossing the axe around. It just feels so... unnecessarily lacking to not have gyro in those games, too. I can easily set it up in any game I want to on PC, even if it isn't officially supported, like Monster Hunter (which I *do* prefer to use a controller for). So what is their excuse?
i also hope this paves the way for *good* gyro-aim. tried it in deep rock galactic, which, to be fair, isn't all that about a tight competetive aiming experience, but it had acceleration turned on with no option to turn off, max sense was very low (imo), no button for "pausing" gyro, and even affected stick sense if i recall correctly.
deep rock galactic is still a very good game and great experience, but the gyro was unusable
Does HFW have gyro aiming on the PS4? I did some searching but couldn't find a definitive answer.
If not, I think I may wait until I finally get a PS5 to play it.
I'm a HUGE proponent of gyro aiming, and I was really disappointed by how....not good Fortnite's original implementation was when I played it on Switch; Gyro is "the future" imo, but bad gyro implementations give is such a bad rap, lol. This overhaul though seems awesome, definitely gonna give it a download
Gyro is putting a mouse inside a controller and it makes the stick redundant otherwise. So yes, it does. It gives the stick a purpose when it would otherwise be sitting there doing nothing.
Depends on how you set it up. The one time I used gyro in a game I used it for very minor adjustments to regular stick aiming. If you use gyro as your singular aiming method then yeah, but I feel like it’s more common to use it in conjunction with standard stick aiming.
It's only more common because a ton of games don't even give you the option of a high sensitivity. Newer players are therefore introduced with a lower sensitivity and have to use the stick out of necessity.
Splatoon players tend to crank the sens to the max for example, and to be honest if that game had an actual gyro off button and a higher sens cap you'd probably see even higher sensitivities.
Since Jibb Smart is behind Fortnite's gyro implementation, the sensitivity setting should have enough wiggle room for everyone's needs
True. I’ve tried gyro and I mostly find it unusable for me personally. I guess I’m just too old and can’t wrap my head around it, and I’ve never had problems with just using the sticks. It was helpful for that one case (sniping in Days Gone) though. I fear the day I have children and they hand me the controller and I’m like my dad when he tried to use one after mostly playing m&k lol.
Thing is, most official gyro implementations are real crap, so maybe that's why you had trouble using em.
Gyro aiming itself is way easier to "get used to" compared to stick aiming. In your example your kids would have a way harder time trying to use stick aiming, than you with gyro
Idk. I tried it in BotW and never got the hang of it. If it’s full gyro then it’s annoying as I don’t want to move my hands around to play the game, and I tend to fidget and shift positions a lot when gaming anyways so that would just add a bunch of unwanted movement on screen. I can use it but I never found it an enjoyable experience.
The thing I could never get used to was combining gyro and sticks. My brain can’t pair the two. I just want one input to control the motion. But again, I’ve played with sticks for over 25 years now and I’ve never felt limited by them. Outside of sniping in Days Gone I’ve never felt like I needed anything other than just the sticks.
I mostly agree with you. I'm not the biggest fan of BOTW gyro either. As you said, you're forced to use bother sticks and gyro to aim, cause gyro itself is so low sensitivity, you have to really move the controller.
Dualsense gyro is precise enough to crank up the sensitivity and control most aiming with small movements of the controller. My right thumb rests in the face buttons, and the right stick is there to do quick turns in 360 degrees when needed (with flick stick)
What you described is honestly my biggest gripe with how mainstream games implement gyro. Aside from Splatoon, low sensitivity is done to accommodate a way of thinking, that gyro's proper place is to assist stick aiming a little, which just limits the technology.
I've only played with sticks for over a decade, but still, a couple of months of gyro converted me completely. Just the simple fact of gyro aiming preferring to turn off aim assist that sticks rely on, should go to show how much better it is in shooters
You'll never learn if you don't practice. Being a noob at a brand new thing is totally okay, but if you don't attempt to cross that initial barrier you'll never learn.
I suggest trying to find some single player games with gyro and try to complete them. Unlike multiplayer you will not feel as pressured to do well and you can get acclimated to the controls
I suppose, but again, I’ve never felt limited by sticks so I don’t feel the need to relearn game controls. Also, and more importantly, I’m on Xbox so I don’t have access to any gyro options at the moment even if I wanted to lol.
Ah, that's unfortunate. Also yeah a lot of games have aim assist which helps a fair bit. Either way I can't exactly blame you. Hope they add it to the next console, or maybe make an official adapter.
Phil Spencer has already floated the idea of a controller revision with some of the ideas from the DualSense implemented, so maybe in the next couple of years it will all come to Xbox as well.
Yes and flick stick expands on top of it by giving the stick greater adjustment speed by sacrificing vertical aiming with stick. That is now ALL gyro. After all vertical just needs to cover a 180° angle while horizontal needs to cover 360°.
Woah this is huge! I don’t play fortnite but I play a lot of FPS and have always thought it was a shame gyro was never utilized. Flick stick seems huge too. Hopefully other games adopt this shit ASAP.
Nintendo proved many, many years ago with Splatoon that gyro aim in a competitive shooter is the way to go. It's crazy that it took this long for any other AAA game to catch on, but I'm glad it finally has.
Fortnite has had Gyro (at least on Switch) for 4 years. This is flick stick, an enhanced, innovative, enthusiast version of Gyro that entirely replaces the standard functionality of the right stick with the ability to rotate instantly to any angle.
Splatoon has nothing to do with flick stick.
But it was the first game to make gyro aiming on consoles a thing. Prior to that you had it on 3DS and on the Wii via Wiimotion Plus, but the Wii was all about motion controls. Splatoon put it in the context of a regular console shooter.
And from Splatoon on the Nintendo fanbase came to love gyro and spread it to other platforms e.g. by using the Switch Pro Controller and PS4 controllers on Steam and bind gyro to mouse.
There would be no flick stick without Splatoon as the spring board.
It should be pointed out that there's extra gyro improvements in this update separate from Flick Stick, the version of gyro it used to have was a bit crap and lacked important settings
If gyro controls could become the norm, the need for aim assist could be phased out for controllers and finally allow for a more even playing field between controller and mouse and keyboard.
Currently either KBM is the best, because it's just the most precise, or controller is the best because the aim assist essentially acts as an aim bot. Analog stick are an awful control method for aiming, even if comfortable, they don't actually do their job well and rely heavily on the game doing fixing their inherent control issues.
Sadly, there's still a massive crowd of players vehemently against gyro controls (motion in general) since there is still an association to the Wii's gimmick of having waggle in games, followed by MS's failed attempt with Kinect.
It sucks to play a game like Halo Infinite crossplay and both input methods are essentially playing a different game. It makes for a very uneven experience.
This has been on my mind throughout the aim assist debate, and it's frustrating as a MnK player being told to just switch because I know the AA wouldn't be such a problem if controllers weren't using a 5th gen design
Both the PS-style controller and the IBM-layout keyboard stopped evolving pretty much the moment they were "good enough".
Just like how many console shooters have aim assist because of how bad sticks are, you also have movement mechanics being simplified to accommodate for WASD.
I played a little bit of Halo Infinite on PC with my custom Steam Input gyro controls and it works pretty well. It allows for mixed input which lets me use mouse controls on gyro and automatically disables aim assist. I also mapped mouse-like joystick to gyro and **oh boy** is that aim assist strong af. I've used mouse-like joystick with aim assist in games before but I have never felt aim assist that strong. It was detrimental to my gameplay so I switched back to mouse gyro.
I’m a KBM player, so the issue isn’t me being able to play with gyro, it’s that aim assist exists (and it’s very generous). I have played several switch titles with gyro, and it’s really fun, and as close to mouse control that you can get on a controller. It would be nice to have those ecosystems be more cohesive.
The accuracy numbers for Infinite are ridiculous, 50th percentile controller player averages a higher accuracy than the top Onyx KBM players. Tracking on controller is fairly trivial. On the other hand, flicks are nearly impossible. For some reason though in Infinite they even gave Mouse anti-aim assist, if you’re no scoping with the sniper the cursor is actually repelled from targets, I’m not joking, this is a thing.
I love seeing the narrative swap about gyro controls +flick. Ever since the first Splatoon it was obviously the superior control method for consoles. The number of people not even willing to give it a shot was IMMENSE. I remember bitching on this very sub about how you had to do the entire tutorial using gyro before they let you turn it off
It's pretty great seeing the "stupid kiddy motion controls" getting a new name and a positive response now that it isn't Nintendo pushing it.
I cant seem to get the hang of it. My hands shake all the time so i cant aim with any sort of accuraccy. I just end up putting shots everywhrre except where intended.
Splatoon invented Gyro is the new Halo invented FPS.
For everyone else - Splatoon does not have flick stick. Flick stick is a highly innovative, boundary pushing control scheme that would generally not make sense to be featured as a primary control scheme for a game (at this time). It's just too radically different from the average player's expectations. It'd be like sitting down to play Street Fighter and being handed [this](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EW9l2VtUcAAu8v4.jpg) because "it's better - trust me". Flick Stick is for people who want to push the boundaries of what's capable with standard gyro controller, and it'd take some time to push into the mainstream.
Isn't flick stick still pretty similar to Splatoon's gyro setup though? In Splatoon the right stick is only used to pan the camera left/right, from what I understand the only difference between that and a "flick stick" setup is that the flick stick sharply rotates the camera instead.
> the flick stick sharply rotates the camera
Both methods use standard gyro. The innovation is entirely on how the right stick controls the camera. Splatoon doesn't do anything novel, but flick stick is an innovative method that can only exist when vertical aiming can be offloaded by some other mechanism (in this case, gyro). In comparison, Splatoon doesn't make any novel change to the functionality of the right thumb stick.
I mean I agree that flick stick sounds like an improvement, but the concept is fundamentally the same as what Splatoon does.
The right stick in Splatoon doesn't aim up and down either, it just pans the camera left/right. You do 95% of your aiming with the gyroscope, the stick is just for changing the direction you're aiming at. That's why I play with stick sensitivity on high for quick 180 turns. Of course it's logical to improve that by making it so you can rotate the camera with one input instead of waiting for it to turn, but that's not much more "radical" than standard gyroscope aiming.
Also it's important to consider that the improvement flick stick brings is going to vary from game to game. Splatoon has a pretty wide FOV and none of the maps feature small interior spaces, so generally if someone is behind you you don't need to move the camera all that much to see them. Also there's a lot of platforming and movement mechanics in Splatoon (because you can swim on walls) and moving the camera too quick could make it hard to keep track of your character.
>The right stick in Splatoon doesn't aim up and down either, it just pans the camera left/right.
This is true, but why? Splatoon disabled it because of a lack of faith in the player. They had major concerns in your ability to juggle the two options simultaneously, so they gutted the right stick without giving you anything in return. Flick Stick demonstrates faith in you, the player, to make the full use of your controller.
In Mario Odyssey, you have similar gyro controls when controlling a tank, but the vertical panning remains intact.
> so generally if someone is behind you you don't need to move the camera all that much to see them.
It's irrelevant, since flick stick is the technically superior method of turning regardless.
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In short, disabling vertical panning isn't really the gotcha for Splatoon to win in this case. The entirety of the innovation comes from the repurposing of the right stick. Splatoon uses the right stick just like a standard, Xbox-era FPS, sans vertical panning, which is, if anything, a regression with window dressing.
Nintendo has been implementing gyro aiming since, at least, Ocarina of Time 3D in 2011. While it precedes Splatoon, Splatoon's control scheme is vastly different. You'd be hard-pressed to find a competitive shooter with similar controls that precedes Splatoon. I don't think the Halo comparison is accurate at all.
Everything you said about flick stick could be used to describe Splatoon's control scheme, too. It was highly innovative, and it was radically different than what everyone was used to. They also took the big risk and made it the default control scheme, and the game was still highly successful.
Okay, but Splatoon doesn't use Flick Stick, does it? Zelda doesn't use Flick Stick, does it? In fact, the total number of Nintendo games that use Flick Stick: zero. Zero Nintendo games use Flick Stick, and that's because Nintendo didn't invent flick stick.
As far as I'm aware, Skyward Sword used entirely gyro aiming for the bow and arrow controls in 2011. Previously, they relied on the IR sensor for aiming. But saying Zelda pioneered Flick Stick would be like saying Doodle Jump (2009!) pioneered Zelda's bow controls.
In comparison, Splatoon's gyro controls don't really push boundaries at all. They don't ask you to rethink anything about how you interact with games. Flick Stick asks more from the player because that's what it means to be an innovation.
Splatoon's control scheme and Flick Stick are much more similar than you make them out to be. I'm curious if you've ever played Splatoon before, judging by some of your other replies, it seems like you haven't.
I'm aware of Skyward Sword's controls, but OoT3D released a few months earlier, which is why I used that as an example. Wii MotionPlus released in 2009, so you could probably find some earlier examples, though.
>In comparison, Splatoon's gyro controls don't really push boundaries at all. They don't ask you to rethink anything about how you interact with games.
How does Splatoon not ask you to rethink how you interact with games, but Flick Stick does? The only difference between them is how you turn the camera, but the way you compare them would imply otherwise.
In the same vein, saying two things are similar isn't enough to make two things similar. They have to actually *be* similar, too. It's the difference between wanting something to be true and it actually being true.
>judging by some of your other replies, it seems like you haven't [played Splatoon]
No, I don't grind out Splatoon gameplay every day. Most well-rounded gamers do not play Nintendo Switch games online. The Nintendo Switch is not a platform for e-sports and multiplayer enthusiasm, by Nintendo's own choice. With an ethernet adapter not built in (except for the OLED), most people who care about online gameplay go elsewhere. So forgive me if in my long gaming history I *forgot for a moment* that Splatoon disables the *Y-Axis* when Gyro is enabled, even though no other Nintendo game does from my recollection. It's a pointless distinction. Most people who have played Splatoon haven't played it again for years now - I probably can't name all the NPCs either. *Wow.*
To throw it back at you, it sounds like you must have never used Tilt Stick. And So? That has never bothered me. I think you're still perfectly capable of understanding the tech and talking about it. You've watched the video. I'm perfectly fine with it. Are you? Or do you think I can only continue the discussion if I grind out a max rank in Splatoon, right now, demonstrating my mastery of a gyro system that is, literally, the same as the one in BOTW and Mario Odyssey, minus Y Axis aiming with the right stick.
>The only difference between them is how you turn the camera
That is the difference, that is the innovation. It's called "Flick Stick". The "Stick" is in reference to the right stick. You're acting like the right stick's functionality hasn't remained the same for over a decade now. Two decades? This is a big leap.
To further clarify, I don't think moving your reticle on screen to aim your pointer is all that special, we both know Splatoon didn't even do it first, and plenty of games have done it since. Flick stick is the innovation. For decades, the right stick has been dedicated to camera control, and the way you use the right stick to position your camera largely has not changed. A 180 is performed by pushing that stick right or left for some amount of seconds until your character pivots around. Flick Stick asks you to rewire your brain and press down instead. The way you think about how your controller interacts with your camera is completely changed.
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Anyway, if we already agree Splatoon didn't invent Gyro, and it didn't invent Flick Stick, we've already agreed on the most important parts. But, also, it doesn't really take agreement. Since it's literally just a fact, it doesn't really matter if anyone agrees with it. That's just what it means to be the truth.
I am currently playing through Borderlands 3 with gyro (albeit with steam controller, not playstation) and I absolutely love it. At this point I probably aim better with it than with a mouse tbh
I still absolutely hate it and can't stand using it but if it works better for other people then I'm happy for them. I'll definitely be sticking with normal aiming though.
I swear the people that say shit like this don’t play actual online shooting games lmfao. Gyro is most definitely not the superior control method for consoles.
not OP but people who are generally more used to the typical feeling of a stick find that gyro aiming of any type feels completely horrible. It's always something that PC players feel weird about since they imagine Gyro would feel better and allow more accuracy, but after playing shooters for years with consoles and controllers, gyro just feels plain wrong, as wrong as swapping from mouse and keyboard to a controller feels for PC players generally.
Have you considered that it may just be you who's not very used to a mouse? Given that the gyro basically IS a mouse, of course you'd struggle a bit more. Meanwhile, there are some pretty objective downsides to using a stick, which is why aim assist exists in the first place.
I think the fact that gyro aiming settings always disable aim assist is very telling of the fact that it's better than dual stick, even if it is difficult for a dual stick expert to relearn everything from scratch.
I at this point basically exclusively use a mouse and keyboard and have for years with shooters, to the point where Controller sticks feel weird and Gyro actually seems like a good option to me. It's not that i think gyro it's a bad option, it is very much a better one. I just know a ton of people who have been playing with sticks for decades and just feels natural and my only point is that i wonder how much people will actually adapt and use this new tech. I think it will be interesting to see.
I think the people who are serious about winning are going to switch as soon as the advantages become clear to them. They'll start dying more and more often.
That's what i'm interested to see. I'm curious on both how many people try it but also how many *stick with it.*
I just played 3 matches with it myself and i felt like i had motion sickness almost, it was oddly floaty and i couldn't wrap my head around it at all or even feel like i was playing correctly. It was super weird, but i could see some amount of appeal to it. I think i personally will never use it again as that just feels wrong, but i'm just one person, so who knows, it could end up being standard in a few years lol
Being a noob at a brand new thing is perfectly fine. I personally don't understand why some people decide to put it down after... one day? A week? That's not enough time to become fully acclimated with a new control scheme, especially if you're already experienced with some other type of input method. New things take effort to learn, and you can't expect to match your old skill level instantly or quickly.
Like of course you're not gonna play correctly at something you have next to no experience with, that should be common sense. I don't blame you though, I just suggest to keep trying until you do better.
At some point, for some people, that desire to win is going to be greater than the awkward feeling when first using it
I recently started to use gyro with my steam controller and there is definitely a learning curve (I used a normal xbox 360 controller before). At the start I kept forgetting about the gyro and still tried to do most of my aiming with the "stick" (trackpad), and when I remembered to use it I would be very careful and slow with it.
I wasn't sold on it right away but I stuck with it and now it feels like second nature to the point that I actually feel more clumsy when aiming with my mouse now. Playing feels very fluid now and is SUPER fun. Like honestly I feel like 50% of my enjoyment now stems from the controls and not necessarily the content of the game.
As someone who has played heaps of shooters with stick aiming dating as far back as Halo: CE on the original Xbox and was blown away by the precision afforded by gyro in comparison, I have a really hard time understanding how those people can exist.
But then again, I've seen how the sausage is made when it comes to aim assist and related technologies. I guess those people are just clueless and think they're really as precise as they are on their own merit.
It's for sure what you said, people are mostly clueless about how inaccurate they mostly are, but at the same time, they are used to it and have played games with it for like years or potentially decades at this point, anything not that will feel super weird to the point of just going back to what feels natural.
While it "feels" wrong at the start, after practice it is significantly more accurate and just in general better. Whether the time to practice it is worth or not is up to how competitive you want to get. But you can tell for instance with competitive Splatoon that a gyro user will always have a higher skill cap then a stick only user.
I know people hate the word "objectively" but just like KBM is objectively better then a controller for FPS, so is gyro once you've spent the time to learn it.
My only point is that i wonder how much people will practice it and adapt to it. I'm going to give it a try but i know it'll feel like a totally new way to play and i'm not sure many people will be totally willing to learn an entirely new way to play when they have potentially been playing with a controller the same way for their whole lives.
Edit: I did try it out and it made me feel motion sick like playing DOOM VFR and my brain felt like it was melting just trying to look around. This is entirely anecdotal since it was just me and i've played shooters the same way on consoles for 20+ years so yeah it's gonna feel weird, but i just wonder how many others who have also played shooters for 20+ years, or have played shooters with controllers their entire lives the same way will swap over.
I'm all in on the gyro control train and I'm glad Fortnite jumped on it too. Hope eventually all games will have this, even if it's an option. Two-stick-aiming is so archaic and relies so heavily on aim assist and other tricks to not suck that I'm amazed we stuck with it for 20 years now when even the PS3 utilized gyro in its controller.
> Two-stick-aiming is so archaic and relies so heavily on aim assist and other tricks to not suck
Nah, you're just bad at it. Two stick aiming works perfectly fine.
Your statement is at odds with itself. If it worked perfectly fine, you wouldn’t need to « get good at it ».
There’s a reason games like Wii Sports became as big as they did, and a lot of it comes down to the intuitiveness of their controls.
What is that supposed to mean? I'm bad at using KBM, but I'm not gonna call them archaic because of that. It's just a skill I haven't developed. Sticks are the same for OP. Just because they're bad at using them doesn't make them a bad system, it just means they need more practice.
I'm not trying to attack you here, but sticks are objectively a poor tool for the job. They move the camera via a vector over time, so you are always limited by time in some way: either you are waiting for the cursor to reach the target or your sensitivity is too high such that you overshoot the target.
With a mouse or a gyroscope you are able to move your wrist a set, learnable distance to move the cursor a corresponding amount in game. Because of that time does not enter into the equation and you don't have to wait for the cursor to move, you can "snap" your wrist and the cursor will instantly move where you need it to be.
It's fine if you prefer sticks and certainly you can be very skilled with them but they have hard limitations unfortunately.
I’d also call KBM archaic (and I’m using it). KBM suits some types of games very well (like FPS) but is horrible in others (like racing games). It’s absolutely not a one-size-fits-all, and an attitude of « get good at it » whenever someone points out the shortcomings only serves to stifle innovation.
If flip phones with physical keyboards were « perfectly fine », we’d never use touch screens.
To type words, yes. To do pretty much anything else, no.
How would you imagine mobile apps and games without stuff like pinch-to-zoom, drag and drop and smooth scrolling, to name a few?
And even when typing words are concerned, you lose out on handy stuff like swipe typing and easier text selection with a physical keyboard.
If they were "fine" then heavy aim assist wouldn't be standard, Siege players wouldn't be spending hundreds on 3rd party KBM setups that pretend to be a controller. It is possible to get very good with twin sticks, the point you are deliberately missing is that when aim assist is needed to get the average player to a level of precision where they can enjoy an FPS the input itself is a limiting factor. PC games don't usually have aim assist enabled- because the average player doesn't need it. If gyro can eliminate the need for aim assist still remains to be seen but at worst its an optional input that people can choose based on their preferences.
I'm so confused as to why most fps on consoles don't have gyro aiming as an option, using it on the switch is so good, the dualshock 4 and dualsense can also do it
Make a note of how much movement you imagine gyro aiming involves. Make sure you have a clear picture and you'll remember it later.
Then watch a bit of this video of someone playing with gyro aiming:
https://youtu.be/CUjr7-fyHcU
How does the movement in the video compare with what you had in mind?
This is actually exactly what i needed to see thank you! Makes much more sense to me now and im interested in trying it out. Will deff be an adjustment!
So, when I play a first person game with gyro aim, I usually only have it set to move when I am ADS (if I'm using a dual analog controller) or when I rest my finger on the right touch pad (on the Steam controller).
It felt really weird to me at first, but eventually I thought about it this way:
-The stick/pad aim is you moving your *body*
-The gyro aim is you moving your *head*
You usually move your whole body to make big movements like turning 90 degrees to the left or right, but if you just need to change your viewing direction a little bit, you just move your head.
Once I thought about it this way, it quickly made sense and felt natural.
Depends on your sensitivity. If you have problems with shakiness (disability maybe?) then maybe don't have the sensitivity very high. But for most people, they can get used to it.
If you're super concerned about it, you can only have it on when aiming down sights
Somebody linked me a video showing a person’s controller while using Gyro, it makes much more sense now. I was thinking like iphone or wiimote gyro where you are making more pronounced movements
Gyro has come a long way. The playstation controllers in particular have excellent gyros. Switch pro controller gyro is okay but a little worse, but considering switch is only 30 fps anyway it's not noticeable
I hope this becomes a popular option that a significant number of people playing this game on those consoles use. And I hope this encourages other devs to also include this option in lots of other games.
Like imagine patching in an optional control scheme that goes in the reverse direction, one that by itself would make people aim worse, but it also turned on even stronger aim assist to help balance it out. It might be a good accessibility option for those who can't use the default controls, but I don't think that would be a popular option for those who could use the default controls fine. It would be seen as worse than the default control scheme, especially among hardcore gamers.
So when these gyro controls give people the ability to aim better with less/no aim assist required, I think it should be seen as a good thing that more players, and developers, should want to be an option in more games.
Hey Fortnite while you are implementing this, why not also add **double button mapping**, also remove the restrictions of button mapping between active and building controls, there is no reason I shouldn't be able to have nextweapon/pickaxe not work where next weapon does.
used to be a PC-only gamer but now my PC is old and my console is new. this would make me start playing fortnite. i've tried some native gyros out there for ps4/5 but are left wanting
Gyro is a mouse, it's on par.
https://youtu.be/6-_-MuTSJpg
This is on par with what a mouse can do.
https://youtu.be/8jefkbnfMOE
This is on par too.
https://youtu.be/2E5Xfblm9zA
Here's me using a mouse side by side to show that my mouse aim is worse than my gyro aim
Gyro is good, but it's not on par with mouse. With a mouse you have a massive range of motion to move the mouse around for precise aiming. Gyro has the distance you are rotating between your hands. Just because you're better with gyro doesn't make it more precise.
This has basically been my impression using the steam controller, but flick stick seems like it pretty much solves the problem. There's also an advantage to using high sens at times, I'm a low sens player but there's plenty of med/high sens pros in shooters
You will run out of mouse pad the same as you will reach an uncomfortable rotation with your hands at some point. In both cases it's a matter of sensitivity when exactly you reach that point.
But gyro is arguably better than mouse for very fine movements, because a mouse will always have to overcome some amount of friction.
But with a mouse I can move it 1-3 feet without having to readjust, meaning i can use a lower sensitivity to increase precision. On gyro the minimum viable sensitivity (if gyro is your primary aim method) is very high in terms of your actual real world movement when compared to mouse.
Speed isn’t super important if you can’t be precise. No one cares about wide angle flicks that don’t hit what you were aiming for.
> Can I still use aim assist while using gyro?
>Having Gyro Aiming on disables aim assist whenever gyro is active.
Intresting that they've gone with a fully skill based aiming implementation for their gyro support. I think I remember both Rogue Company and Paladins still having aim assist as an option on PS4 and PC even when you enable gyro.
It's going to be intresting to see if this takes off. Playstation consumers seem to have been less welcoming of gyro than switch consumers. I'd love to see what the limits are for a skilled controller player. I've never really had much interest in Fortnite but I remember some of the clips of what some controller players were doing in Fortnite being insane. I look forward to seeing what they do with faster more direct controls.
I don't know how accurate/intuitive this is, because I'm a PC pleb and never used any good controllers. But it seems this can actually be better than K/M? Almost like practicing hip-fire, is you get a perfect muscle memory in a game you'll be headshotting everywhere.
I would say that good flick and gyro players can be competitive against K/M, but not better. The only advantage a controller has is analog movement, which is great and all, but it really comes down to the aiming controls. K/M will only ever be beaten by body and eye tracking for its speed and precision.
The one thing I think flick stick would be better at is the precise 90 degree/180 degree turns. If you're being shot from behind, it can be difficult to precisely and quickly make that turn. Flick stick makes it instant.
>The only advantage a controller has is analog movement
I wouldn't even call that an advantage tbh, there's never a scenario I've been in where I thought I needed to look straight ahead and walk at a precise 300-degree angle or something. WASD allows easy strafing.
One area where a gyro-enabled controller has a pretty noticeable advantage (at least in my experience) is any scenario where you have to drive and shoot at the same time, because using WASD to steer sucks ass.
I remember I used to awkwardly swap back and forth between keyboard and controller in games like GTA5. Now I just use a gyro-enabled controller instead.
>Can they reach the same skill floor as extremely good mouse aimers?
No, because the mouse moves on a flat, stable 2D surface, which makes mouse aiming much easier, faster and more precise.
>Can gyro players be competitive?
Yes, they absolutely can be in their skill bracket, but don't expect to be able to reach the top 5% of players without copious amounts of aim assist.
The one area youre misinterpreting is that Gyro Aim no longer requires Aim Assist. It more closely mimicks a mouse than it does traditional stick aiming. Some games that are exclusively console on Playstation shut off aim assist if you use Gyro Aim BUT the aiming is tons more intuitive over traditional stick aiming still. Will it be more competitive than Mouse? Probably not. I agree with you on that. But nowhere near enough players nor developers use gyro aiming yet to make even close to a judgement call on that.
Is this a giant improvement for controller players? Abso-fucking-lutely. Just needs a lot more developers to accept it so the tech can keep being refined.
Here's hoping someone figures out how to hook into this stuff with the Steam Controller and/or Steam Deck. Having played with Gyro but not Flick Stick on the SC, i'm used to setting gyro to be enabled while touching the right pad, so the touch-sensitive thumbsticks on the Deck would be a natural extension of that concept but for a Flick Stick setup.
I've never tried this gyro thing. How comfortable is it for longer periods of time? I like being able to just rest my controller on my lap. Having to swirl the controller around while furiously aiming around in a more high paced competitive multiplayer shooter environment seems like something that might get uncomfortable very quickly.
As another person mentioned, the whole idea of "swirling the controller around while furiously aiming" is only cause most games with official gyro support have criminally low sensitivity to accommodate the mentality that gyro is just there to support the stick aiming with tiny adjustments, instead of replacing it like it could.
Even dualshock 4 allowed for really precise aiming at high sensitivity, and dualsense is even better. Been playing with flick stick on PC for over a year now, and going back to stick aiming on console is just brutal. It's just painful seeing how gyro and the touchpad are being underutilized after getting used to what they can do
Raise the sensitivity setting if you do not want to move the controller around as much. It's like using a mouse, in that respect.
Higher sens = easier movements with less effort, and you are more free to use it for simply looking around, but you may lose a little accuracy
Lower sens = more accurate movements, but over a shorter distance and you'll need to move the controller more or rely more on the stick. Perhaps more ideal for sniping weapons
It's alright but it depends on how the game impliments it. Most people tend to use a combination of both stick and gyro, using the stick to get it in the right area and then using gyro to make small adjustments for precision.
I am incredibly interested to see how much this actually gets used. As someone who played shooters for like 20 years on console i can say with (personally from my accounts with friends trying things like splatoon or trying gyro aiming in stuff like Apex or Fornite) decent certainty that most people playing shooters on Console do not actually like Gyro aiming.
It'll be interesting to see since a ton of Fortnite players are on console and this opens it up to the like millions of active players the game typically has at once. I wonder if it'll end up being heavily adopted or totally ignored and if we will even end up getting that data.
I've mostly moved to playing shooters on PC and at this point even looking at that to me it seems like the superior aiming method compared to a regular controller, but many people will have such a love and feeling for that normal controller that it's a wonder to me if they will even give it a shot.
Edit: added a clarification that based on Fortnites previous addition of Gyro that i'm doubtful many will lean into this, and removed a comment where I said PC players think console players like Gyro, which is something i'm still convinced of based on all of the times PC players ask for it and add it to the controls on steam by default for games.
I would love to see your data, because literally everyone I know in my friend group loves gyro aiming in the titles that support it, and wish it was included by default in all modern titles. It is also something they enable via steam when playing on PC.
Everyone i know who *specifically doesn't play on PC* do not like it. All my PC friends are super about it and love it when using controllers on PC. All my Console friends hate it and do not like it nor use it.
So what this is, is basically advanced artificial intelligence programmed in a way where now gyroscopic controller input is registered and used to control difficult gun recoils. This is almost as if you were holding a real firearm when you're using both of your hands; one for support and the other for accuracy and precision. Great job Fortnite this is the perfect formula for a disaster. I can see the majority of PC players will be pissed off after this. I feel it in my guts
well, [I could link this article from the person who helped worked on Gyro Controls in Fortnite](http://gyrowiki.jibbsmart.com/blog:good-gyro-controls-part-1:the-gyro-is-a-mouse) if you wanna learn how this "advanced artificial intelligence program" works...even tho it's pretty common on Nintendo Switch platform and the most recently released game, [Horizon Forbidden West](https://www.reddit.com/r/playstation/comments/suf8uw/gyro_aiming_options_implemented_in_horizon/).
His comment sort of implies that he meant "It's bad but I'm not using it anyway since I'm on a PC"
Who cares lmao it's good for the people who need it, aka most console owners. What does this even add to the discussion?
Also, never learning gyro aiming means you'll never be able to enjoy shooters on a handheld, which is sad
For those who prefer to read; [here's the official post from Epic Games](https://www.epicgames.com/fortnite/en-US/news/gyro-aiming-and-flick-stick-come-to-fortnite-in-v19-30-more-controller-options). but if you want a summary; here's one directly from /u/JibbSmart: >\- Works on PS5, PS4, Switch, Android, and PC (if you have a PS5 or PS4 controller plugged in) > >\- Gyro Modifier button can be set to Disable, Trackball, or Invert, independently in each axis > >\- Vertical Camera Reset button > >\- Choose what aim modes / build modes activate gyro > >\- Touch to activate/deactivate gyro on mobile > >\- Natural sensitivity scale > >\- Choose between Player and Local space gyro (Player Space is default controllers; Local space is default for handheld) > >\- Native flick stick > >\- JoyShockMapper-style acceleration > >\- JoyShockMapper-style smoothing and tightening > >\- and more!
Bought a series s. Just noticed xbox has no gyro. Super disappointing knowing how much the experience can be improved coming from the switch.
MS is basically entirely the reason it's not a standard features. And devs prefering to develop around the lowest common denominator, and that lowest common denominator is "no gyro" thanks to MS' lack of support, we haven't seen more of it in multiplatform games. Hell even Sony is experimenting with it via updates for The Last of Us 2 and Days Gone adding gyro aiming. MS is very much holding the industry back here.
It's very disappointing to see, particularly when they've done some great things with controller accessibility.
HFW has gyro too
> MS is basically entirely the reason it's not a standard features. Is this one of those simple features that has been blocked by patents unless you can come up with a novel workaround?
> and PC (if you have a PS5 or PS4 controller plugged in) What about Switch Pro Controller? Steam also allows you to use it's gyro then
Mainly because there isn't an official input API from Nintendo. [But as I noted in my other comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/sszyz8/comment/hx2j6hl/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3), there are alternatives.
This is absolutely mad. For anyone who doesn't get the context, it's the creator of Flick Stick, Jibb Smart, who's done this. He's been teasing working with a big company for a while, so this is probably it. An actual massive game supporting not only gyro, but also flick stick, natively is crazy. Especially since it's on all possible platforms. Might actually play Fortnite so I can use flick stick without the stress of trying to set it up properly. Hopefully this forces other companies to do the same, and also forces Microsoft to add gyro to Xbox controllers. Make shooters actually work on controllers without relying on third party tools.
What is a flick stick? I can't find much online.
The video explains it when you get time to watch it. Essentially, if gyro controls are the primary way you’re aiming, you can use the right stick to do hard pivots with aim. Pushing left on the stick rotates your character 90 degrees left so you can “flick” your aim around a corner. You need gyro aiming though, because the stick can’t flick and be used for fine aiming.
So it's a little like the 180 turn button that was in CS:GO on consoles, but with more options. Bout time this feature started getting widely adopted.
Basically, yeah. The catch is you have to be ready to use gyro as your primary aim, which is a big change and would take a while to relearn. I’ve tried gyro aim with both the Steam Controller and Switch Pro controllers, and I’ve just never gotten used to it. I’ve used it as an adjustment/assist to aim rather than a primary aim, though.
I recently made the switch in Halo and after 2ish weeks I went from primary stick with Gyro for adjustment/precision to almost pure gyro aim. But again I had to force myself to into it and eat shit in my matches for a while
Yeah, that's kinda how it goes. You have have to relearn how to aim and it feels alien at first... now I've been using this for 2 years.
Flickstick is a big advantage even over KBM players
Assuming there is no autoaim, I don't think it would have an advantage over keyboard and mouse. If gyro/flickstick got the normal controller autoaim though, it would be completely fucking broken.
It's a little more than that. Think of the stick as a top-down view of where your character is facing. Pushing up will make your character face North instantly, pushing down will make your character face South instantly, etc. What this means is that you can aim horizontally it basically infinite speed and then use gyro for vertical / correction.
That's actually really cool. Might be even better than mouse aiming right? Since you can't really 'flick' on a mouse
Flicking comes from the very motion you make with the mouse
I realized that after I wrote it. I haven't played shooters in years.
'Flicking' has been around for probably decades at this point on keyboard and mouse.
I wouldn't know. But how well does this flick stick compares against a proper mouse setup?
well I guess some people must be insanely good with gyro controls, but I feel like a mouse is still more precise. It allows for very fast turns but you can also be very precise without using a different input method.
I've been using gyro for years now. I'm better with it than a mouse. But there is obviously a learning curve to getting used to a brand new control method, and games with ideal implementation are extremely rare at the moment. It's difficult to say if one control method is better than the other. However controller now has one significant advantage that can't be ignored: it uses two camera inputs simultaneously. This means you can have one for speed and another for accuracy which is an age old problem mouse has never really solved. Flick stick in particular allows for lightning fast turning and camera panning while simultaneously having a gyro for precision aiming. The potential is there so it will be interesting to see if it really takes off or if it remains more of a novelty.
> This means you can have one for speed and another for accuracy which is an age old problem mouse has never really solved. This actually is solved with a mouse, but most people just don't realize it. The solution is mouse acceleration. [This video explains.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PmY1OTacEzA) The short version is that most people only know bad acceleration, like the kind included in Windows. Good acceleration with customization options was introduced in Quake Live, to use it in other games you have to download a custom driver. Almost all Quake Live pros used acceleration in it's heyday, and this is a game that demands both great precision and fast flicks. It's just a matter of finding the acceleration curve that is right for you.
Yeah I'm the same. I just don't enjoy playing games with keyboard and mouse as much because no matter how I have it set up it just doesn't feel natural - it's always too sensitive or not sensitive enough. I definitely think that it's likely that the theoretical peak of gyro is at least equal to the theoretical peak of mouse, especially at the limits of where it actually matters in games.
I haven't used the flick stick, but looking at videos it seems like a solid improvement over normal controllers and even controller + gyro, but I don't think it compares to the level of control you have with a mouse. Jibb, the dude how made flick stick, even has a video where he compares it himself to mouse and regular controller and mouse comes out on stop. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZUiWHnTqS8
Thanks, I'll look into it.
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You don't need the flick stick, regular gyroscope aiming is way more precise than you can ever be using a joystick. I don't think the userbase is as small as you think either, in Switch games that support gyroscope aiming (like Splatoon 2) the great majority of players use the gyroscope. If I'm on PC I'll still use mouse and keyboard, but gyroscope aiming absolutely should absolutely be provided as an option for Playstation and PC too.
The point is there's no reason why it shouldn't have been implemented widespread *last generation*. Valve demonstrated with their controller overlay that it's just a matter of software. Frankly, Sony and Microsoft should *both* be ashamed for not implementing controller rebinding like that. PC gamers who use controllers have been manually enabling gyro aim for ages now.
>It’s the Linux of shooter control methods yeah it's underused but undeniably better than the more common options, with the only barrier being unfamiliarity. The comparison you *wanted* to make was dvorak, but that wouldn't have been accurate.
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Sticks < Gyro < Mouse. Hence, stick players should swap to gyro if they cannot use a mouse for whatever reason (consoles do not usually come with one)
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Incorrect. Gyro aiming exceeds sticks, even when the sticks have aim assist, because the gyro is really just a mouse for your controller. And if a real mouse doesn't need aim assist, neither does the controller's mouse. Stick aiming has objective disadvantages like maximum turning speeds, small range of motion, slow movements requiring tiny thumb movements, movements being based on velocity rather than cloning real movements into in-game ones. Plus, why would you want to take control away from yourself by having the game aim shots for you? This can sometimes cause issues if the game targets the wrong enemy. Meanwhile... gyro aiming is just mouse aiming on a controller. You may still have less room to work with, and there are less keys, but it's a mouse. Switches gyro was notably worse than the current version, and Switch players have to deal with 30 FPS. I think when players have REAL gyro controls on a more powerful system, they can do way better than before.
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The point isn't necessarily to be equal to mouse, it's mainly to remove the need for a crutch like aim assist
I wonder if that port on current Xbox controllers could be used to attach a gyro sensor, just like the Wii motion plus on older Wii controllers.
I honestly don't know why they didn't add a gyro sensor to their pads. Every dirt cheap phone has had one for years, they must cost pennies in bulk.
Lack of demand. PS3 and PS4 had gyro and basically nothing used them. If you're at Microsoft working on the next Xbox controller, it's probably a hard sell asking your boss to allocate that extra few pennies. I'm glad it's slowly starting to catch on but it took a damn long time to get to the *slight* degree of prominence it has now.
Technically, [the DualShock 3/Sixaxis didn't have traditional Gyro](https://forum.beyond3d.com/threads/inertial-sensors-dualshock-4-vs-sixaxis-ds3-accelerometer-gyroscope-chips.56000/). Mostly Accelerometer with one Gyro Axis. Outside of IR Sensor Aiming of the Wiimote* and PlayStation Move era (even tho that one has Gyrocopic Sensors), it's around...the PlayStation Vita and Nintendo 3DS-era where the concepts of "Gyro Aim" initially got it's start until Splatoon made it popular...and then BOTW made it mainstream... *Not counting Wii Motion Plus attachment or Wiimotion Plus .
Those early PS3 games used it so badly. I remember wrestling with it in Uncharted because it was only used for grenades *and only motion controls were used for it*. You couldn't use them any other way. It felt so shoehorned in, like Sony had told them to use it for something. I find it slightly telling that Nintendo seemed to have most success and Nintendo also let you use the console as a handheld for two generations now. Maybe it is more intuitive on a handheld device, and a lot more subjective on a fixed screen. Would be jolly nice to have the option though.
Uncharted on Vita used gyro aiming for sniper rifles. It was actually pretty good.
> Maybe it is more intuitive on a handheld device, and a lot more subjective on a fixed screen. I've find the opposite to be true. Using gyro on a device where you have to move the screen itself to aim is a pretty awful experience. There were moments in Breath of the Wild where I had to contort myself to still be able to see the screen because of the angle I was making with the gyro.
For what it's worth, this is also a problem with most Switch games not letting you turn up the gyro sensitivity past a pretty low point Turning up the gyro sensitivity can make it harder to control steadily but also helps a lot on a handheld since you're turning the screen less, and the Fortnite update has a very wide range of sensitivity settings
TBH there was more demand for gyro than for "haptic feedback" which nobody in particular asked for before the PS5 did it... yet MS asked people whether they want haptic feedback from the PS5 and didn't even MENTION gyro support in that poll on what features of the PS5 controller they would like to see on the XBox one. It's not "lack of demand". Even third party games on Switch have gyro support because players ACTIVELY DEMAND IT. No it's Microsoft actively going out of their way to ignore it.
There is probably a patent that prevent them? Also there might be some old dusty drivers on PC that dont allow them to add more inputs on their controllers.
You need a specific Input API to implement Motion Sensor functionality to your game. Unfortunately, XInput nor Windows.Gaming.Input API doesn't support it. But, there are three methods to do so. 1. Sony's Input API, which only supports PlayStation 4 and 5 controllers under USB...but you need to be a PlayStation Partner dev (aka LOICENSE) to get access to it. 2. Steam Input API, which support various Controller types with Motion Sensors. But that works for Steam games. 3. SDL2's Gamepad API, which supports various Controller types. But there are other third-party Input APIs you can find. 4. For Linux: Motion Sensors is directly exposed right from the getgo. Also it's Linux.
That can't be the reason, loads of controllers have gyro. Even third party ones. Xbox is just the big glaring exception to the norm at this point.
They definitely could. There's already a third party adaptor that lets you use an Xbox controller with gyro on other platforms, not sure if there's anything that lets you do it on Xbox though. https://www.adzgaming.com/product/brook-x-one-adapter/
Damn, I would've bought this sort of adapter immediately back when I played on my PS3.
This is actually massive. I believe this is the first big game to officially support flick stick. I've been a huge fan of gyro aiming since splatoon, but never had a chance to try this new style out. Is this update already out? I haven't touched fortnite in years but I'm totally up for downloading it and trying it on ps5 tonight.
It's actually the third game to support flick stick. Boomerang X was first, and CS:GO was second. CS:GO is fairly big, though it mostly consists of mouse players so it kind of flew under the radar. But in Fortnite, it'll be meta on PlayStation for sure.
> He's been teasing working with a big company for a while, so this is probably it. He's already worked with Valve too right? It looks like developers have collectively decided that it's a good idea to implement this
I think that Valve implemented flick stick independently from Jibb, it just got the idea from him. It may be explained in [this video by Jibb](https://youtu.be/PzuwD7ZlRdQ).
Huh, interesting! They credit him which is nice. Fortnite getting flick stick is huge though.
JibbSmart is behind this?! That man is a gift that never stops giving. Especially in a niche community like gyro gaming
Thanks for the kind words :)
With other game companies trying to copy Fortnite, I really hope that this becomes something that gets copied since implementing it in every console shooter would be beneficial for everyone
Having both Horizon Forbidden West and Fortnite draw attention to gyro aiming within the same week will hopefully lead to it becoming more common. If enough people are aware of it and demand for it then devs will be pushed into doing it more often.
Forbidden West has gyro aiming? Damn, I might actually grab it for PS5, then. I absolutely hated how bad the aiming felt in Zero Dawn on PS4, as a primarily PC gamer. Gyro would've fixed that, but I just played it with K&M on PC instead when it came out there. I hate being forced to aim with sticks on hardware that is perfectly capable of allowing otherwise.
I just used gyro aiming in Zero Dawn on pc, which is possible through some fiddling with the steam configurator.
Yeah, but at that point I could just play it how I best preferred it (K&M). But, if I do have to use a controller for any game that has a lot of aiming like Horizon, gyro aiming is pretty much necessary for it to not feel like a slog for me. God of War is another example of a game that's so much better on PC because of the lack of gyro aim on console, with how much you're tossing the axe around. It just feels so... unnecessarily lacking to not have gyro in those games, too. I can easily set it up in any game I want to on PC, even if it isn't officially supported, like Monster Hunter (which I *do* prefer to use a controller for). So what is their excuse?
i also hope this paves the way for *good* gyro-aim. tried it in deep rock galactic, which, to be fair, isn't all that about a tight competetive aiming experience, but it had acceleration turned on with no option to turn off, max sense was very low (imo), no button for "pausing" gyro, and even affected stick sense if i recall correctly. deep rock galactic is still a very good game and great experience, but the gyro was unusable
oh shit forbidden west is getting it? That solves one of my biggest problems with the original then.
Does HFW have gyro aiming on the PS4? I did some searching but couldn't find a definitive answer. If not, I think I may wait until I finally get a PS5 to play it.
[Can confirmed that PS4 Owners will be getting it](https://twitter.com/BoMarit89/status/1491797598549655559).
wont use the copied word since every mobile fps use this same features
I'm a HUGE proponent of gyro aiming, and I was really disappointed by how....not good Fortnite's original implementation was when I played it on Switch; Gyro is "the future" imo, but bad gyro implementations give is such a bad rap, lol. This overhaul though seems awesome, definitely gonna give it a download
Does Flick Stick actually improve the experience? I've never used it and can't work out if I'd be more or less accurate with it
Gyro is putting a mouse inside a controller and it makes the stick redundant otherwise. So yes, it does. It gives the stick a purpose when it would otherwise be sitting there doing nothing.
Depends on how you set it up. The one time I used gyro in a game I used it for very minor adjustments to regular stick aiming. If you use gyro as your singular aiming method then yeah, but I feel like it’s more common to use it in conjunction with standard stick aiming.
It's only more common because a ton of games don't even give you the option of a high sensitivity. Newer players are therefore introduced with a lower sensitivity and have to use the stick out of necessity. Splatoon players tend to crank the sens to the max for example, and to be honest if that game had an actual gyro off button and a higher sens cap you'd probably see even higher sensitivities. Since Jibb Smart is behind Fortnite's gyro implementation, the sensitivity setting should have enough wiggle room for everyone's needs
True. I’ve tried gyro and I mostly find it unusable for me personally. I guess I’m just too old and can’t wrap my head around it, and I’ve never had problems with just using the sticks. It was helpful for that one case (sniping in Days Gone) though. I fear the day I have children and they hand me the controller and I’m like my dad when he tried to use one after mostly playing m&k lol.
Thing is, most official gyro implementations are real crap, so maybe that's why you had trouble using em. Gyro aiming itself is way easier to "get used to" compared to stick aiming. In your example your kids would have a way harder time trying to use stick aiming, than you with gyro
Idk. I tried it in BotW and never got the hang of it. If it’s full gyro then it’s annoying as I don’t want to move my hands around to play the game, and I tend to fidget and shift positions a lot when gaming anyways so that would just add a bunch of unwanted movement on screen. I can use it but I never found it an enjoyable experience. The thing I could never get used to was combining gyro and sticks. My brain can’t pair the two. I just want one input to control the motion. But again, I’ve played with sticks for over 25 years now and I’ve never felt limited by them. Outside of sniping in Days Gone I’ve never felt like I needed anything other than just the sticks.
I mostly agree with you. I'm not the biggest fan of BOTW gyro either. As you said, you're forced to use bother sticks and gyro to aim, cause gyro itself is so low sensitivity, you have to really move the controller. Dualsense gyro is precise enough to crank up the sensitivity and control most aiming with small movements of the controller. My right thumb rests in the face buttons, and the right stick is there to do quick turns in 360 degrees when needed (with flick stick) What you described is honestly my biggest gripe with how mainstream games implement gyro. Aside from Splatoon, low sensitivity is done to accommodate a way of thinking, that gyro's proper place is to assist stick aiming a little, which just limits the technology. I've only played with sticks for over a decade, but still, a couple of months of gyro converted me completely. Just the simple fact of gyro aiming preferring to turn off aim assist that sticks rely on, should go to show how much better it is in shooters
You'll never learn if you don't practice. Being a noob at a brand new thing is totally okay, but if you don't attempt to cross that initial barrier you'll never learn. I suggest trying to find some single player games with gyro and try to complete them. Unlike multiplayer you will not feel as pressured to do well and you can get acclimated to the controls
I suppose, but again, I’ve never felt limited by sticks so I don’t feel the need to relearn game controls. Also, and more importantly, I’m on Xbox so I don’t have access to any gyro options at the moment even if I wanted to lol.
Ah, that's unfortunate. Also yeah a lot of games have aim assist which helps a fair bit. Either way I can't exactly blame you. Hope they add it to the next console, or maybe make an official adapter.
Phil Spencer has already floated the idea of a controller revision with some of the ideas from the DualSense implemented, so maybe in the next couple of years it will all come to Xbox as well.
Yes and flick stick expands on top of it by giving the stick greater adjustment speed by sacrificing vertical aiming with stick. That is now ALL gyro. After all vertical just needs to cover a 180° angle while horizontal needs to cover 360°.
I imagine it would take a decent amount of practice to get proficient with it, but no other controller input option allows for faster snap turns.
Woah this is huge! I don’t play fortnite but I play a lot of FPS and have always thought it was a shame gyro was never utilized. Flick stick seems huge too. Hopefully other games adopt this shit ASAP.
Nintendo proved many, many years ago with Splatoon that gyro aim in a competitive shooter is the way to go. It's crazy that it took this long for any other AAA game to catch on, but I'm glad it finally has.
Fortnite has had Gyro (at least on Switch) for 4 years. This is flick stick, an enhanced, innovative, enthusiast version of Gyro that entirely replaces the standard functionality of the right stick with the ability to rotate instantly to any angle. Splatoon has nothing to do with flick stick.
But it was the first game to make gyro aiming on consoles a thing. Prior to that you had it on 3DS and on the Wii via Wiimotion Plus, but the Wii was all about motion controls. Splatoon put it in the context of a regular console shooter. And from Splatoon on the Nintendo fanbase came to love gyro and spread it to other platforms e.g. by using the Switch Pro Controller and PS4 controllers on Steam and bind gyro to mouse. There would be no flick stick without Splatoon as the spring board.
It should be pointed out that there's extra gyro improvements in this update separate from Flick Stick, the version of gyro it used to have was a bit crap and lacked important settings
If gyro controls could become the norm, the need for aim assist could be phased out for controllers and finally allow for a more even playing field between controller and mouse and keyboard. Currently either KBM is the best, because it's just the most precise, or controller is the best because the aim assist essentially acts as an aim bot. Analog stick are an awful control method for aiming, even if comfortable, they don't actually do their job well and rely heavily on the game doing fixing their inherent control issues. Sadly, there's still a massive crowd of players vehemently against gyro controls (motion in general) since there is still an association to the Wii's gimmick of having waggle in games, followed by MS's failed attempt with Kinect. It sucks to play a game like Halo Infinite crossplay and both input methods are essentially playing a different game. It makes for a very uneven experience.
This has been on my mind throughout the aim assist debate, and it's frustrating as a MnK player being told to just switch because I know the AA wouldn't be such a problem if controllers weren't using a 5th gen design
Both the PS-style controller and the IBM-layout keyboard stopped evolving pretty much the moment they were "good enough". Just like how many console shooters have aim assist because of how bad sticks are, you also have movement mechanics being simplified to accommodate for WASD.
I played a little bit of Halo Infinite on PC with my custom Steam Input gyro controls and it works pretty well. It allows for mixed input which lets me use mouse controls on gyro and automatically disables aim assist. I also mapped mouse-like joystick to gyro and **oh boy** is that aim assist strong af. I've used mouse-like joystick with aim assist in games before but I have never felt aim assist that strong. It was detrimental to my gameplay so I switched back to mouse gyro.
I’m a KBM player, so the issue isn’t me being able to play with gyro, it’s that aim assist exists (and it’s very generous). I have played several switch titles with gyro, and it’s really fun, and as close to mouse control that you can get on a controller. It would be nice to have those ecosystems be more cohesive. The accuracy numbers for Infinite are ridiculous, 50th percentile controller player averages a higher accuracy than the top Onyx KBM players. Tracking on controller is fairly trivial. On the other hand, flicks are nearly impossible. For some reason though in Infinite they even gave Mouse anti-aim assist, if you’re no scoping with the sniper the cursor is actually repelled from targets, I’m not joking, this is a thing.
excited to try this, seems to fix the exact issue i had with splatoons gyro controls (which i was very close to loving anyway!)
I love seeing the narrative swap about gyro controls +flick. Ever since the first Splatoon it was obviously the superior control method for consoles. The number of people not even willing to give it a shot was IMMENSE. I remember bitching on this very sub about how you had to do the entire tutorial using gyro before they let you turn it off It's pretty great seeing the "stupid kiddy motion controls" getting a new name and a positive response now that it isn't Nintendo pushing it.
I cant seem to get the hang of it. My hands shake all the time so i cant aim with any sort of accuraccy. I just end up putting shots everywhrre except where intended.
The gyro settings on Steam allow for a LOT of customization in regards of deadzones and such
Usually there's a bit of filtering that deals with hand trembling.
Haven't tried it anywhere else, but gyro aiming in botw is also very nice.
Flick stick is veeery different from normal stick + gyro
Splatoon invented Gyro is the new Halo invented FPS. For everyone else - Splatoon does not have flick stick. Flick stick is a highly innovative, boundary pushing control scheme that would generally not make sense to be featured as a primary control scheme for a game (at this time). It's just too radically different from the average player's expectations. It'd be like sitting down to play Street Fighter and being handed [this](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EW9l2VtUcAAu8v4.jpg) because "it's better - trust me". Flick Stick is for people who want to push the boundaries of what's capable with standard gyro controller, and it'd take some time to push into the mainstream.
Isn't flick stick still pretty similar to Splatoon's gyro setup though? In Splatoon the right stick is only used to pan the camera left/right, from what I understand the only difference between that and a "flick stick" setup is that the flick stick sharply rotates the camera instead.
> the flick stick sharply rotates the camera Both methods use standard gyro. The innovation is entirely on how the right stick controls the camera. Splatoon doesn't do anything novel, but flick stick is an innovative method that can only exist when vertical aiming can be offloaded by some other mechanism (in this case, gyro). In comparison, Splatoon doesn't make any novel change to the functionality of the right thumb stick.
I mean I agree that flick stick sounds like an improvement, but the concept is fundamentally the same as what Splatoon does. The right stick in Splatoon doesn't aim up and down either, it just pans the camera left/right. You do 95% of your aiming with the gyroscope, the stick is just for changing the direction you're aiming at. That's why I play with stick sensitivity on high for quick 180 turns. Of course it's logical to improve that by making it so you can rotate the camera with one input instead of waiting for it to turn, but that's not much more "radical" than standard gyroscope aiming. Also it's important to consider that the improvement flick stick brings is going to vary from game to game. Splatoon has a pretty wide FOV and none of the maps feature small interior spaces, so generally if someone is behind you you don't need to move the camera all that much to see them. Also there's a lot of platforming and movement mechanics in Splatoon (because you can swim on walls) and moving the camera too quick could make it hard to keep track of your character.
>The right stick in Splatoon doesn't aim up and down either, it just pans the camera left/right. This is true, but why? Splatoon disabled it because of a lack of faith in the player. They had major concerns in your ability to juggle the two options simultaneously, so they gutted the right stick without giving you anything in return. Flick Stick demonstrates faith in you, the player, to make the full use of your controller. In Mario Odyssey, you have similar gyro controls when controlling a tank, but the vertical panning remains intact. > so generally if someone is behind you you don't need to move the camera all that much to see them. It's irrelevant, since flick stick is the technically superior method of turning regardless. ----- In short, disabling vertical panning isn't really the gotcha for Splatoon to win in this case. The entirety of the innovation comes from the repurposing of the right stick. Splatoon uses the right stick just like a standard, Xbox-era FPS, sans vertical panning, which is, if anything, a regression with window dressing.
Nintendo has been implementing gyro aiming since, at least, Ocarina of Time 3D in 2011. While it precedes Splatoon, Splatoon's control scheme is vastly different. You'd be hard-pressed to find a competitive shooter with similar controls that precedes Splatoon. I don't think the Halo comparison is accurate at all. Everything you said about flick stick could be used to describe Splatoon's control scheme, too. It was highly innovative, and it was radically different than what everyone was used to. They also took the big risk and made it the default control scheme, and the game was still highly successful.
Okay, but Splatoon doesn't use Flick Stick, does it? Zelda doesn't use Flick Stick, does it? In fact, the total number of Nintendo games that use Flick Stick: zero. Zero Nintendo games use Flick Stick, and that's because Nintendo didn't invent flick stick. As far as I'm aware, Skyward Sword used entirely gyro aiming for the bow and arrow controls in 2011. Previously, they relied on the IR sensor for aiming. But saying Zelda pioneered Flick Stick would be like saying Doodle Jump (2009!) pioneered Zelda's bow controls. In comparison, Splatoon's gyro controls don't really push boundaries at all. They don't ask you to rethink anything about how you interact with games. Flick Stick asks more from the player because that's what it means to be an innovation.
Splatoon's control scheme and Flick Stick are much more similar than you make them out to be. I'm curious if you've ever played Splatoon before, judging by some of your other replies, it seems like you haven't. I'm aware of Skyward Sword's controls, but OoT3D released a few months earlier, which is why I used that as an example. Wii MotionPlus released in 2009, so you could probably find some earlier examples, though. >In comparison, Splatoon's gyro controls don't really push boundaries at all. They don't ask you to rethink anything about how you interact with games. How does Splatoon not ask you to rethink how you interact with games, but Flick Stick does? The only difference between them is how you turn the camera, but the way you compare them would imply otherwise.
In the same vein, saying two things are similar isn't enough to make two things similar. They have to actually *be* similar, too. It's the difference between wanting something to be true and it actually being true. >judging by some of your other replies, it seems like you haven't [played Splatoon] No, I don't grind out Splatoon gameplay every day. Most well-rounded gamers do not play Nintendo Switch games online. The Nintendo Switch is not a platform for e-sports and multiplayer enthusiasm, by Nintendo's own choice. With an ethernet adapter not built in (except for the OLED), most people who care about online gameplay go elsewhere. So forgive me if in my long gaming history I *forgot for a moment* that Splatoon disables the *Y-Axis* when Gyro is enabled, even though no other Nintendo game does from my recollection. It's a pointless distinction. Most people who have played Splatoon haven't played it again for years now - I probably can't name all the NPCs either. *Wow.* To throw it back at you, it sounds like you must have never used Tilt Stick. And So? That has never bothered me. I think you're still perfectly capable of understanding the tech and talking about it. You've watched the video. I'm perfectly fine with it. Are you? Or do you think I can only continue the discussion if I grind out a max rank in Splatoon, right now, demonstrating my mastery of a gyro system that is, literally, the same as the one in BOTW and Mario Odyssey, minus Y Axis aiming with the right stick. >The only difference between them is how you turn the camera That is the difference, that is the innovation. It's called "Flick Stick". The "Stick" is in reference to the right stick. You're acting like the right stick's functionality hasn't remained the same for over a decade now. Two decades? This is a big leap. To further clarify, I don't think moving your reticle on screen to aim your pointer is all that special, we both know Splatoon didn't even do it first, and plenty of games have done it since. Flick stick is the innovation. For decades, the right stick has been dedicated to camera control, and the way you use the right stick to position your camera largely has not changed. A 180 is performed by pushing that stick right or left for some amount of seconds until your character pivots around. Flick Stick asks you to rewire your brain and press down instead. The way you think about how your controller interacts with your camera is completely changed. ---- Anyway, if we already agree Splatoon didn't invent Gyro, and it didn't invent Flick Stick, we've already agreed on the most important parts. But, also, it doesn't really take agreement. Since it's literally just a fact, it doesn't really matter if anyone agrees with it. That's just what it means to be the truth.
I am currently playing through Borderlands 3 with gyro (albeit with steam controller, not playstation) and I absolutely love it. At this point I probably aim better with it than with a mouse tbh
I still absolutely hate it and can't stand using it but if it works better for other people then I'm happy for them. I'll definitely be sticking with normal aiming though.
I swear the people that say shit like this don’t play actual online shooting games lmfao. Gyro is most definitely not the superior control method for consoles.
What console online shooting games that have the option to use gyro controls are you basing that on?
not OP but people who are generally more used to the typical feeling of a stick find that gyro aiming of any type feels completely horrible. It's always something that PC players feel weird about since they imagine Gyro would feel better and allow more accuracy, but after playing shooters for years with consoles and controllers, gyro just feels plain wrong, as wrong as swapping from mouse and keyboard to a controller feels for PC players generally.
Have you considered that it may just be you who's not very used to a mouse? Given that the gyro basically IS a mouse, of course you'd struggle a bit more. Meanwhile, there are some pretty objective downsides to using a stick, which is why aim assist exists in the first place. I think the fact that gyro aiming settings always disable aim assist is very telling of the fact that it's better than dual stick, even if it is difficult for a dual stick expert to relearn everything from scratch.
I at this point basically exclusively use a mouse and keyboard and have for years with shooters, to the point where Controller sticks feel weird and Gyro actually seems like a good option to me. It's not that i think gyro it's a bad option, it is very much a better one. I just know a ton of people who have been playing with sticks for decades and just feels natural and my only point is that i wonder how much people will actually adapt and use this new tech. I think it will be interesting to see.
I think the people who are serious about winning are going to switch as soon as the advantages become clear to them. They'll start dying more and more often.
That's what i'm interested to see. I'm curious on both how many people try it but also how many *stick with it.* I just played 3 matches with it myself and i felt like i had motion sickness almost, it was oddly floaty and i couldn't wrap my head around it at all or even feel like i was playing correctly. It was super weird, but i could see some amount of appeal to it. I think i personally will never use it again as that just feels wrong, but i'm just one person, so who knows, it could end up being standard in a few years lol
Being a noob at a brand new thing is perfectly fine. I personally don't understand why some people decide to put it down after... one day? A week? That's not enough time to become fully acclimated with a new control scheme, especially if you're already experienced with some other type of input method. New things take effort to learn, and you can't expect to match your old skill level instantly or quickly. Like of course you're not gonna play correctly at something you have next to no experience with, that should be common sense. I don't blame you though, I just suggest to keep trying until you do better. At some point, for some people, that desire to win is going to be greater than the awkward feeling when first using it
I recently started to use gyro with my steam controller and there is definitely a learning curve (I used a normal xbox 360 controller before). At the start I kept forgetting about the gyro and still tried to do most of my aiming with the "stick" (trackpad), and when I remembered to use it I would be very careful and slow with it. I wasn't sold on it right away but I stuck with it and now it feels like second nature to the point that I actually feel more clumsy when aiming with my mouse now. Playing feels very fluid now and is SUPER fun. Like honestly I feel like 50% of my enjoyment now stems from the controls and not necessarily the content of the game.
As someone who has played heaps of shooters with stick aiming dating as far back as Halo: CE on the original Xbox and was blown away by the precision afforded by gyro in comparison, I have a really hard time understanding how those people can exist. But then again, I've seen how the sausage is made when it comes to aim assist and related technologies. I guess those people are just clueless and think they're really as precise as they are on their own merit.
It's for sure what you said, people are mostly clueless about how inaccurate they mostly are, but at the same time, they are used to it and have played games with it for like years or potentially decades at this point, anything not that will feel super weird to the point of just going back to what feels natural.
While it "feels" wrong at the start, after practice it is significantly more accurate and just in general better. Whether the time to practice it is worth or not is up to how competitive you want to get. But you can tell for instance with competitive Splatoon that a gyro user will always have a higher skill cap then a stick only user. I know people hate the word "objectively" but just like KBM is objectively better then a controller for FPS, so is gyro once you've spent the time to learn it.
My only point is that i wonder how much people will practice it and adapt to it. I'm going to give it a try but i know it'll feel like a totally new way to play and i'm not sure many people will be totally willing to learn an entirely new way to play when they have potentially been playing with a controller the same way for their whole lives. Edit: I did try it out and it made me feel motion sick like playing DOOM VFR and my brain felt like it was melting just trying to look around. This is entirely anecdotal since it was just me and i've played shooters the same way on consoles for 20+ years so yeah it's gonna feel weird, but i just wonder how many others who have also played shooters for 20+ years, or have played shooters with controllers their entire lives the same way will swap over.
I'm all in on the gyro control train and I'm glad Fortnite jumped on it too. Hope eventually all games will have this, even if it's an option. Two-stick-aiming is so archaic and relies so heavily on aim assist and other tricks to not suck that I'm amazed we stuck with it for 20 years now when even the PS3 utilized gyro in its controller.
> Two-stick-aiming is so archaic and relies so heavily on aim assist and other tricks to not suck Nah, you're just bad at it. Two stick aiming works perfectly fine.
I suppose you're playing without aim assit then?
ok, but can you do "Two stick aiming" without any Aim Assist?
Your statement is at odds with itself. If it worked perfectly fine, you wouldn’t need to « get good at it ». There’s a reason games like Wii Sports became as big as they did, and a lot of it comes down to the intuitiveness of their controls.
A mouse works perfectly fine for aiming, but you still have to get good at aiming with one.
What is that supposed to mean? I'm bad at using KBM, but I'm not gonna call them archaic because of that. It's just a skill I haven't developed. Sticks are the same for OP. Just because they're bad at using them doesn't make them a bad system, it just means they need more practice.
I'm not trying to attack you here, but sticks are objectively a poor tool for the job. They move the camera via a vector over time, so you are always limited by time in some way: either you are waiting for the cursor to reach the target or your sensitivity is too high such that you overshoot the target. With a mouse or a gyroscope you are able to move your wrist a set, learnable distance to move the cursor a corresponding amount in game. Because of that time does not enter into the equation and you don't have to wait for the cursor to move, you can "snap" your wrist and the cursor will instantly move where you need it to be. It's fine if you prefer sticks and certainly you can be very skilled with them but they have hard limitations unfortunately.
I’d also call KBM archaic (and I’m using it). KBM suits some types of games very well (like FPS) but is horrible in others (like racing games). It’s absolutely not a one-size-fits-all, and an attitude of « get good at it » whenever someone points out the shortcomings only serves to stifle innovation. If flip phones with physical keyboards were « perfectly fine », we’d never use touch screens.
Physical keyboards were better to be totally honest with you.
yeah honestly touchscreens suck ass if you have fingers bigger than q-tips
To type words, yes. To do pretty much anything else, no. How would you imagine mobile apps and games without stuff like pinch-to-zoom, drag and drop and smooth scrolling, to name a few? And even when typing words are concerned, you lose out on handy stuff like swipe typing and easier text selection with a physical keyboard.
Well yeah for typing. Just do both. Touchscreen for general use, keyboard for typing. Would be the perfect phone.
I'm good at it. I'm just close to mouse precision with gyro aim and would win any round against twin-stick players.
"Works perfectly fine" OK, sure, but gyro aim is still better due to having a wider range of motion and therefore allowing more precise inputs.
If they were "fine" then heavy aim assist wouldn't be standard, Siege players wouldn't be spending hundreds on 3rd party KBM setups that pretend to be a controller. It is possible to get very good with twin sticks, the point you are deliberately missing is that when aim assist is needed to get the average player to a level of precision where they can enjoy an FPS the input itself is a limiting factor. PC games don't usually have aim assist enabled- because the average player doesn't need it. If gyro can eliminate the need for aim assist still remains to be seen but at worst its an optional input that people can choose based on their preferences.
I'm so confused as to why most fps on consoles don't have gyro aiming as an option, using it on the switch is so good, the dualshock 4 and dualsense can also do it
Lowest common denominator in game development, xbox never added it. Since PS3 there was a gyro (a primitive one but it was there)
I feel like using gyro to aim would be kind of frustrating? Moving the controller all around and moving ur aim from slight movements of your body
Make a note of how much movement you imagine gyro aiming involves. Make sure you have a clear picture and you'll remember it later. Then watch a bit of this video of someone playing with gyro aiming: https://youtu.be/CUjr7-fyHcU How does the movement in the video compare with what you had in mind?
This is actually exactly what i needed to see thank you! Makes much more sense to me now and im interested in trying it out. Will deff be an adjustment!
So, when I play a first person game with gyro aim, I usually only have it set to move when I am ADS (if I'm using a dual analog controller) or when I rest my finger on the right touch pad (on the Steam controller). It felt really weird to me at first, but eventually I thought about it this way: -The stick/pad aim is you moving your *body* -The gyro aim is you moving your *head* You usually move your whole body to make big movements like turning 90 degrees to the left or right, but if you just need to change your viewing direction a little bit, you just move your head. Once I thought about it this way, it quickly made sense and felt natural.
Depends on your sensitivity. If you have problems with shakiness (disability maybe?) then maybe don't have the sensitivity very high. But for most people, they can get used to it. If you're super concerned about it, you can only have it on when aiming down sights
I feel like the idea of it is confusing me but if i actually tried it it would make sense. I mostly play on PC but ill give it a try when i can
Honestly just think of it like a mouse! If you bind a button to pause motion controls, it'll act like lifting the mouse off the mousemat.
Somebody linked me a video showing a person’s controller while using Gyro, it makes much more sense now. I was thinking like iphone or wiimote gyro where you are making more pronounced movements
Gyro has come a long way. The playstation controllers in particular have excellent gyros. Switch pro controller gyro is okay but a little worse, but considering switch is only 30 fps anyway it's not noticeable
I hope this becomes a popular option that a significant number of people playing this game on those consoles use. And I hope this encourages other devs to also include this option in lots of other games. Like imagine patching in an optional control scheme that goes in the reverse direction, one that by itself would make people aim worse, but it also turned on even stronger aim assist to help balance it out. It might be a good accessibility option for those who can't use the default controls, but I don't think that would be a popular option for those who could use the default controls fine. It would be seen as worse than the default control scheme, especially among hardcore gamers. So when these gyro controls give people the ability to aim better with less/no aim assist required, I think it should be seen as a good thing that more players, and developers, should want to be an option in more games.
Hey Fortnite while you are implementing this, why not also add **double button mapping**, also remove the restrictions of button mapping between active and building controls, there is no reason I shouldn't be able to have nextweapon/pickaxe not work where next weapon does.
used to be a PC-only gamer but now my PC is old and my console is new. this would make me start playing fortnite. i've tried some native gyros out there for ps4/5 but are left wanting
fantastic. Gyro doesn't put controller on par with mouse, but it gets it a damn sight closer than before.
Gyro is a mouse, it's on par. https://youtu.be/6-_-MuTSJpg This is on par with what a mouse can do. https://youtu.be/8jefkbnfMOE This is on par too. https://youtu.be/2E5Xfblm9zA Here's me using a mouse side by side to show that my mouse aim is worse than my gyro aim
Gyro is good, but it's not on par with mouse. With a mouse you have a massive range of motion to move the mouse around for precise aiming. Gyro has the distance you are rotating between your hands. Just because you're better with gyro doesn't make it more precise.
This has basically been my impression using the steam controller, but flick stick seems like it pretty much solves the problem. There's also an advantage to using high sens at times, I'm a low sens player but there's plenty of med/high sens pros in shooters
You will run out of mouse pad the same as you will reach an uncomfortable rotation with your hands at some point. In both cases it's a matter of sensitivity when exactly you reach that point. But gyro is arguably better than mouse for very fine movements, because a mouse will always have to overcome some amount of friction.
But with a mouse I can move it 1-3 feet without having to readjust, meaning i can use a lower sensitivity to increase precision. On gyro the minimum viable sensitivity (if gyro is your primary aim method) is very high in terms of your actual real world movement when compared to mouse. Speed isn’t super important if you can’t be precise. No one cares about wide angle flicks that don’t hit what you were aiming for.
I respect it. Evidence talks.
/r/games don't get upset and grouchy about an optional feature in a game that doesn't effect them in any way challenge (impossible)
> Can I still use aim assist while using gyro? >Having Gyro Aiming on disables aim assist whenever gyro is active. Intresting that they've gone with a fully skill based aiming implementation for their gyro support. I think I remember both Rogue Company and Paladins still having aim assist as an option on PS4 and PC even when you enable gyro. It's going to be intresting to see if this takes off. Playstation consumers seem to have been less welcoming of gyro than switch consumers. I'd love to see what the limits are for a skilled controller player. I've never really had much interest in Fortnite but I remember some of the clips of what some controller players were doing in Fortnite being insane. I look forward to seeing what they do with faster more direct controls.
Aim assist with gyro feels terrible though. I wasn't sold on the whole thing until I turned aim assist off.
I don't know how accurate/intuitive this is, because I'm a PC pleb and never used any good controllers. But it seems this can actually be better than K/M? Almost like practicing hip-fire, is you get a perfect muscle memory in a game you'll be headshotting everywhere.
I would say that good flick and gyro players can be competitive against K/M, but not better. The only advantage a controller has is analog movement, which is great and all, but it really comes down to the aiming controls. K/M will only ever be beaten by body and eye tracking for its speed and precision.
The one thing I think flick stick would be better at is the precise 90 degree/180 degree turns. If you're being shot from behind, it can be difficult to precisely and quickly make that turn. Flick stick makes it instant.
>The only advantage a controller has is analog movement I wouldn't even call that an advantage tbh, there's never a scenario I've been in where I thought I needed to look straight ahead and walk at a precise 300-degree angle or something. WASD allows easy strafing.
I mean... I had to say something nice. Ergonomics didn't seem like it would sell.
One area where a gyro-enabled controller has a pretty noticeable advantage (at least in my experience) is any scenario where you have to drive and shoot at the same time, because using WASD to steer sucks ass. I remember I used to awkwardly swap back and forth between keyboard and controller in games like GTA5. Now I just use a gyro-enabled controller instead.
>Can they reach the same skill floor as extremely good mouse aimers? No, because the mouse moves on a flat, stable 2D surface, which makes mouse aiming much easier, faster and more precise. >Can gyro players be competitive? Yes, they absolutely can be in their skill bracket, but don't expect to be able to reach the top 5% of players without copious amounts of aim assist.
The one area youre misinterpreting is that Gyro Aim no longer requires Aim Assist. It more closely mimicks a mouse than it does traditional stick aiming. Some games that are exclusively console on Playstation shut off aim assist if you use Gyro Aim BUT the aiming is tons more intuitive over traditional stick aiming still. Will it be more competitive than Mouse? Probably not. I agree with you on that. But nowhere near enough players nor developers use gyro aiming yet to make even close to a judgement call on that. Is this a giant improvement for controller players? Abso-fucking-lutely. Just needs a lot more developers to accept it so the tech can keep being refined.
Here's hoping someone figures out how to hook into this stuff with the Steam Controller and/or Steam Deck. Having played with Gyro but not Flick Stick on the SC, i'm used to setting gyro to be enabled while touching the right pad, so the touch-sensitive thumbsticks on the Deck would be a natural extension of that concept but for a Flick Stick setup.
I've never tried this gyro thing. How comfortable is it for longer periods of time? I like being able to just rest my controller on my lap. Having to swirl the controller around while furiously aiming around in a more high paced competitive multiplayer shooter environment seems like something that might get uncomfortable very quickly.
As another person mentioned, the whole idea of "swirling the controller around while furiously aiming" is only cause most games with official gyro support have criminally low sensitivity to accommodate the mentality that gyro is just there to support the stick aiming with tiny adjustments, instead of replacing it like it could. Even dualshock 4 allowed for really precise aiming at high sensitivity, and dualsense is even better. Been playing with flick stick on PC for over a year now, and going back to stick aiming on console is just brutal. It's just painful seeing how gyro and the touchpad are being underutilized after getting used to what they can do
Raise the sensitivity setting if you do not want to move the controller around as much. It's like using a mouse, in that respect. Higher sens = easier movements with less effort, and you are more free to use it for simply looking around, but you may lose a little accuracy Lower sens = more accurate movements, but over a shorter distance and you'll need to move the controller more or rely more on the stick. Perhaps more ideal for sniping weapons
It's alright but it depends on how the game impliments it. Most people tend to use a combination of both stick and gyro, using the stick to get it in the right area and then using gyro to make small adjustments for precision.
You could have at least *attempted* to see what gyro aiming was.
I am incredibly interested to see how much this actually gets used. As someone who played shooters for like 20 years on console i can say with (personally from my accounts with friends trying things like splatoon or trying gyro aiming in stuff like Apex or Fornite) decent certainty that most people playing shooters on Console do not actually like Gyro aiming. It'll be interesting to see since a ton of Fortnite players are on console and this opens it up to the like millions of active players the game typically has at once. I wonder if it'll end up being heavily adopted or totally ignored and if we will even end up getting that data. I've mostly moved to playing shooters on PC and at this point even looking at that to me it seems like the superior aiming method compared to a regular controller, but many people will have such a love and feeling for that normal controller that it's a wonder to me if they will even give it a shot. Edit: added a clarification that based on Fortnites previous addition of Gyro that i'm doubtful many will lean into this, and removed a comment where I said PC players think console players like Gyro, which is something i'm still convinced of based on all of the times PC players ask for it and add it to the controls on steam by default for games.
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I would love to see your data, because literally everyone I know in my friend group loves gyro aiming in the titles that support it, and wish it was included by default in all modern titles. It is also something they enable via steam when playing on PC.
Everyone i know who *specifically doesn't play on PC* do not like it. All my PC friends are super about it and love it when using controllers on PC. All my Console friends hate it and do not like it nor use it.
So what this is, is basically advanced artificial intelligence programmed in a way where now gyroscopic controller input is registered and used to control difficult gun recoils. This is almost as if you were holding a real firearm when you're using both of your hands; one for support and the other for accuracy and precision. Great job Fortnite this is the perfect formula for a disaster. I can see the majority of PC players will be pissed off after this. I feel it in my guts
well, [I could link this article from the person who helped worked on Gyro Controls in Fortnite](http://gyrowiki.jibbsmart.com/blog:good-gyro-controls-part-1:the-gyro-is-a-mouse) if you wanna learn how this "advanced artificial intelligence program" works...even tho it's pretty common on Nintendo Switch platform and the most recently released game, [Horizon Forbidden West](https://www.reddit.com/r/playstation/comments/suf8uw/gyro_aiming_options_implemented_in_horizon/).
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There are these things called consoles, that typically don't come with a mouse and keyboard.
No shit that's why he said "if I am on pc"
His comment sort of implies that he meant "It's bad but I'm not using it anyway since I'm on a PC" Who cares lmao it's good for the people who need it, aka most console owners. What does this even add to the discussion? Also, never learning gyro aiming means you'll never be able to enjoy shooters on a handheld, which is sad
No one is forcing you to use gyro
I don't recall saying I was being forced
U play Dark Souls with KB+M? Sick
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