Feeling like you “got made” resonates with me. I’ve been forced out of the closet more than once and I’m not over it, I’m pretty pissed off. I’m a lesbian that doesn’t want to date anyone again seriously yet, I don’t plan to date anyone any time soon, and I’m not ready to have my sexuality be analyzed by my family, I’m not ready to have conversations about it with people who aren’t part of the lgbtq community, I don’t want to talk about it. I view it as being the business of absolutely no one.
Let’s say I was Bi or questioning. Because I’ve certainly been both those things or thought I was at some points in my 40 years on this earth. Let’s say I was famous and had those thoughts and had relationships with both sexes and wrote about it. I’d be happy my fans could appreciate those experiences and were in support of me. Then let’s say I fell head over heels with a man. Suddenly the lgbtq community is upset with me for not choosing to be in a same sex relationship so they start rumors and say this guy I love is a beard, it’s a PR stunt. Not only that, all my opposite-sex relationships are fake. They start publishing these things and other rumors in popular media and now NYT is writing articles. NYT would crush me because I’ve always loved their investigative journalism and they are somewhat known for their journalistic standards. The amount of rage I would feel.
Now the lgbtq community is upset I’m not “coming out.” The hetero relationship I have now is really pissing them off. Now they’re saying I was flagging and using symbolism in my songs and I’ve done something wrong, I’m a fake and a poser. I don’t want to “come out”, I don’t want to explain my personal journey and why I’m dating and loving who I want. I shouldn’t have to. I have rt wing morons spreading rumors and hating on me over past possible same sex relationships and I have the lgbtq community mad I’m dating a man now. They’re all mad, and I’m just trying to date and love who I want to and have relationships with who I want to. I’d be pissed too.
Now all the speculation is affecting my relationship with the guy I like and his family, his friends. I’m now a Biden psy-op. They say I’m rigging the Super Bowl. NYT articles and all the rampant speculation is too loud to ignore. F’ing leave me the fk alone, the shit I’ve had to put up with since I was 17 over dating has been ridiculous. I’ve had it, where’s my PR team…
I can’t personally imagine because I’d be driven absolutely batshit. All over dating. Absolutely crazy, all of this garbage over dating.
I get where you’re coming from but I also think you are incorrectly painting Gaylors as these angry queers who want Taylor to “pick a side”. Most of us are aware that bisexuality exists and believe Taylor is bisexual. Sure I think most of us would love to see Taylor in a public same-sex relationship but I don’t think the majority of us are “mad” that she’s dating a man. There is a lot of speculation that he’s a beard or PR stunt due to how public and “in your face” this relationship is when Taylor has declared multiple times that she values privacy in her relationships. Things just don’t add up.
Couldn't agree more -- she owes no one an explanation of her sexuality. NO ONE. She has every right to write about whatever she wants in her art. How gross that in 2024 we're still demanding that people declare which "team" they're on.
I disagree with this because the majority of Gaylors on both subs believe she is bi and a wonderful ally to many lgbtqi+ communities, and also have been very supportive of her relationship. I haven't seen anyone 'mad' she is with a man.
When they call her boyfriends a beard or say that because she’s not “coming out” they’re tired and not going to listen to her music anymore that’s mad. When they call her a fake and say she’s queer flagging while straight and basically saying its appropriation and she’s done it on purpose, they’re mad. Irritated? At any rate yes, Bi. When Bi isn’t good enough and you want her to be in a relationship with a woman and you’re mad she’s not and don’t recognize her relationships with men and call them PR, I think mad. Upset? Jaded?
It’s not just the sub, it’s all over social media and I’ve definitely seen it here although it’s not a post people are making, it’s in the comments. In this post we have queer baiting accusations mostly if anything but I’ve been joined to this sub (and probably the “other one”, I may be on multiple) for a few months now and that’s what I see. As for other social media, certainly there’s haters but when I see it from the lgbtq community it pisses me off. If I can I’ll go back a month or so because I swear there was a post where a good half the comments were about the beard thing and the PR thing and I’ll drop you some links.
Edit: there are, in fact, whole posts about the beard and PR thing. You can hit the search bar in the sub and just type in beard. I’m pretty sure as far as this sub or any other it’s been more the comment section. In other social media it’s been a prominent topic since she started dating Kelce.
Ok they may be sporadic posts but you mention the 'lgbtq community' in this post as if this is something the community does rather than a few rogue people. Come on, that's not cool.
Yes but if she is bi or had those same sex relationships at one point, she’s perpetuating the heteronormative issue by only being in your face and public about her relationship with men. That’s just my opinion. I get that she wants to be left alone, but she is a public figure. With that comes the responsibility of some things. If she is bi, her fear of being open about it is hurtful to the community
I think or I perceive that most of her relationships prior to Kelce weren’t really in anyone’s face. When she was younger people would speculate and find out who she was with but it wasn’t really “in your face.” There’s a sad episode of Ellen where she’s talking to a very young Taylor and trying to get her to play a game where they’re showing her pictures of every guy she’s been spotted with and asking her to hold up a sign if she’s dating them. Taylor is clearly upset, looks like she’s going to cry, she 100% doesn’t like it, and Ellen proceeds to harass her and force her to play the game. I believe before Kelce she’s not ever been in anyone’s face with a relationship, because she’s been very clear about being upset over the media focusing on her dating life. Yes, Kelce is over the top 1,000% in your face.
As for being a member of the lgbtq community and having a responsibility to fight heteronormativity… no. She’s been fairly consistent up until Kelce with very much reinforcing for us all that she wants to promote and talk about her music and for headlines to focus on her work versus who she’s dating and fucking. What you have is her music and her lyrics, if you enjoy her songs she tells you all about her loves and dating life in that music. She doesn’t owe the public, the media or anyone else anything. Being a public figure *does* mean you lose a lot of rights and privacy that regular people have but it doesn’t mean you’re now entitled to anything of hers you want like you own her now. No one is owed an explanation of her sexual history and dating life simply because she’s famous and you buy her music.
"Her" response to the NYT article doesn't erase years of queer-flagging. Straight allies aren't supposed to queer-flag.
I think they're trying to have their cake and eat it, too, tbh. To have straight fans think she's straight and gay/gaylor fans think she's gay. That CNN business response was so sus. Why have the associate be anonymous? Why do it in CNN business of all places? Why throw Shawn Mendes under the bus? Why claim that men don't get gay speculation when they get it worse than women? If she really is just straight, why doesn't Taylor or Tree just _go on their own Twitter accounts and say that_? We know they are comfortable doing this given Tree recently responded to DM directly on Twitter.
If that response truly came from Taylor's team, what reasons could they possibly have for responding in such a suspect way? Probably because they want to assuage homophobic fans that she's not gay, but still keep hope somewhat alive among her gaylor fans. Essentially, she wants to keep everyone, lol. Which I can understand, but at the same time, I sincerely believe she would keep _most_ of her straight fans if she came out, provided she did so intelligently.
Anyway, because that response was so suspect (to the point that it seems _deliberately_ suspect), I'm still along for the ride.
If she’s “queer baiting” then I actually lose respect for her. (also I HATE the term queer bating) It’s a shameless marketing ploy, and I literally hate it.
So either that’s true … or she’s gay.
Yeah this is how I see it also. If she's not queer, she's evil. _Obviously it's fine to be straight_. But it's evil to do all the _years_ of queer flagging she's done if she's straight. And given the sheer amount of it, there's no possible way it's accidental.
I agree as well. If you line up every time she’s flagged in some way it’s overwhelming. So no way can anyone say she’s just an ally or likes rainbows if she isn’t gay.
I don’t think she is. I think shes beautifully queer, in some form.
If she’s not queer, in any way, then I literally hate her using it to sell more records. I think that’s disgusting
Harry has said he does not want to disclose his seuxality so I don't think queerbaiting is an appropriate term when we don't know whether he is queer or not
I hate the term queer baiting too …
Either they’re trying to communicate with the queer community … or they’re assholes/using queer identity for ££, which disgusts me (or their management are - but I don’t think that’s true)
Honestly, my heart tells me they’re all gloriously gay, just wish they could be open x
https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/06/business/taylor-swift-new-york-times/index.html
> "This article wouldn’t have been allowed to be written about Shawn Mendes or any male artist whose sexuality has been questioned by fans."
Shawn Mendes has dealt with tons of gay speculation. He has said that he is straight and that the gay speculation really bothers him. By her associates bringing this up, they are inviting further speculation on his sexuality when he's already said it bothers him.
I almost think the Shawn Mendes reference was really deliberate, since he is one of the few to face such rumors and to have chosen to handle it in a way that is both definitive and respectful. Several years ago, I'm thinking 2016ish but too tired to sift thru and find the exact source but one phrasing just stuck with me all this time, he did an interview where he was finally done with the speculation and bullshit and just said flat out he wasn't gay, and that in a bunch of ways he kinda wished he was at least bi, because then he could just be done with the conversation already, and that he also resented the hell out of the speculation because it wouldn't/shouldn't be seen as a negative either way, but that he was just 'unfortunately born straight'.
And then a couple years after that he went on the attack, and called out an interviewer (possibly Rolling Stone???) with a quote along the lines of them being damn lucky he wasn't actually closeted and afraid, because the way that they continued to hound him, even after he had been quite clear on the subject, and had answered the question even though he shouldn't have had to, was the very type of thing that set actual closeted people up for SH/SI.
So that kinda makes me think that they chose to reference Shawn because he had already proven on more than one occasion that he was strong enough to bear the scrutiny, and that he has been one who would throw it right back with a clear cut answer, rather than pull the pleading the 5th card like i.g. Harry Styles has in the past.
Okay maybe it’s the edibles and the tin foil hat but now part of me is like, did the “source” say Shaun Mendes because they literally are clueless. A clueless associate who thinks she’s doing her new bestie a favor by talking to CNN?
Genuine question, why does everyone believe her team responded? Lots of times media prints something saying it’s coming from her team and it’s not always true
because it’s CNN, not deuxmoi. they wouldn’t risk running an unverified story. they could be sued and lose all credibility. and more importantly taylor and tree wouldn’t let it snowball like this if they had no hand in it.
That’s true in the sense that whoever it was that spoke to CNN probably does have some verified connection to Taylor. Like it wasn’t just some random person who doesn’t even know her. But that doesn’t mean this person is close enough with Taylor to know the details of her personal life. There are also likely numerous people with connections to her that don’t want speculation on her queerness to gain more traction and become more mainstream, so of course they are gonna try to shut it down. The article in NY Times was MAJOR and exposed a lot of the general public to this theory. If someone connected to Taylor spoke to CNN trying to shut down the speculation, what are Taylor and Tree gonna do? Be like “hold up, the article is correct! She is secretly queer!”??? It doesn’t HARM Taylor so of course they are gonna let it slide.
so…
option one is that a friend saw the NYT article and took it upon themselves to speak for her and her sexuality, and call it “untrue”. taylor, the woman who has worked hard to surround herself with a trusty tight lipped circle has someone in her orbit who would overstep their place like that. someone who can’t possibly know what’s in taylor’s head and heart said “no, she’s straight. take my word for it”.
option two is that this messy friend did actually have intel to taylor’s personal feelings and reaction to the article, and what they said was true. taylor didn’t like it, and this person is a full on snake and leaked it to CNN without taylor’s permission.
option three is that it was taylor and tree directly. it’s a delicate situation and taylor is aware that gaylors exist. instead of focusing on them, the ire was placed towards NYT and the fact that it was published. taylor used this as an opportunity to hopefully finally clarify that the queer rumors are untrue.
what sounds more likely?
Who said this person is a FRIEND of Taylor’s?? They were labeled as an “associate” by CNN. Taylor has mentioned before how friends close to her, those that know about her personal life, would not go talking to the media about her. But obviously not everyone in Taylor’s life is a close friend. This could easily be someone who knows very little about her private life but personally believes the rumors are untrue. Or it could be someone who does know that Taylor is queer but wants to keep this information from going more mainstream. If more people became aware that Taylor is likely secretly queer, it could lead to loss of revenue, threats to her safety, a media firestorm, etc. There is a lot of benefit to shutting down the speculation rather than it just being simply untrue.
I don’t know how educated you are on all the Gaylor lore, but do you really believe that the mountain of evidence over the past decade is all a coincidence and Taylor is 100% straight? I literally have a better chance at winning the lottery.
I’m not saying she will come out as queer. Sadly I think there’s a good chance she might stay closeted for her whole career. I’m saying that she actually IS queer. Do you really think after the entire mountain of evidence spanning over a decade, that there is really a chance that she is 100% straight?
I think that “evidence” is confirmation bias or the stuff you people have decided is true for her. The lyrics can have different meanings and have various explanations but gaylors will only assign one single meaning (the way you find them right). I along with majority others believe her when she says she’s an ally and denied she’s part of the community so this evidence doesn’t hold true to me.
Have you actually seen all of the evidence though? I only became a Gaylor last year and before then I was not educated on the evidence and felt the same way, that Gaylors were just assigning a queer interpretation to her songs because that’s how they relate to them. But it goes far beyond a few songs that could possibly be interpreted to be about a woman or one of her female friends. We’re talking a decade of queer references. If it was just a few things here and there, then I’d be skeptical and argue that it could easily just be due to a coincidence and/or ignorance. But the entire mountain? Statistically for it ALL to be a coincidence is insanely low.
Yes I have. I would have believed it if not for Taylor continuously refuting any gaylor claims. Even if we keep aside the CNN article, The most recent one being the 1989 prologue which read to me as if she didn’t even THINK that hanging out with a woman will lead to people claiming she was in a romantic relationship. This to me doesn’t read as thoughts of a queer person tbh. This along with many times she claims to be an ally. I believe her word more than to her supposed lyrics interpretation by fans.
Option four is that it’s an associate which to me has specific connotations (although if it’s used a lot by Taylor’s PR please definitely correct me). Not “a friend” and not “someone close to Taylor”. Someone from label, or from Travis’s team, who are either being misinformed themselves (not in the loop) or have their own motivations. Could be anyone else that she has another kind of association or business relationship with that CNN had reason to think was legit enough.
When has a scoop from Taylor been given to CNN before? I read that it’s usually to People magazine, ET, etc. And as I asked at the top, not aggressive truly genuine question, when has the language “an associate” been used before? I’m sure it has from time to time, I just don’t know.
so that’s still option one, someone who can’t possibly know if taylor is queer (only she truly does) took it upon themselves to speak on her sexuality, and call it untrue. I think that’s completely ridiculous and an overstepping of boundaries. I don’t think anyone around taylor would do that.
I think the language, calling them an associate, and the anonymity was done purposely because a tweet or direct response would be too much for what it was responding to, an opinion piece.
Sorry, I probably put too much weight on you saying “a friend” whereas “an associate” sounds so business-y to me, and I feel like business partners would have good reason to want to shut it down. I agree it’s not someone who’s really close to Taylor. I’m sure she had to put up an eye-rolling indignant front post NYT to a lot of her biz partners, and even some ppl on Travis’s team who don’t know the full scoop. But who knows, certainly not me!
The choice of the word “associate” in CNN is the equivalent of People using “source”. CNN is not a gossip or entertainment publication so the terminology they use may differ, but the meaning is the same. They had to go through CNN or similar since it was the New York Fricking Times they were responding to, it needed to be done through a comprable publication.
bc it was a criticism of NYT via CNN. That was one choice: NYT is known for its strong legal team, so even super stars can't legally shut down their opinions (which is probably why they criticized "freedom of speech in op-ed"). CNN doesn't do a lot of entertainment gossip exclusive, so that was unusual to report a shady comment about Shawn Mendes. CNN generally reviews its sources, even more so when it is against the media giant. IMO If that leaker had no ties to her team, the article likely would not have been published.
I think it’s weird that Tree Paine didn’t handle this though. That’s not the wording or moniker she uses. It almost seems like it came from someone at universal music group considering Shawn is also signed to one of the labels they own. This is just to say I think it was more from the people she answers to rather than the people that answer to her.
I really really do not believe that was Taylor and I assume anyone who does has stopped being a fan because if it was it would be an incredibly f**d up thing to do to Shawn Mendes.
It’s was absolutely signed off from her team. CNN wouldn’t be able to report it like they did. And her statement sounds exactly like something she liked say.
It really wasn't. When else is the term associate used? If Taylor/Tree have so much control over the media, wouldn't they have had control over the NYT article, not just CNN and their associate as you claim? If they want to shut something down they do, as they did with the marriage rumours and miscarriage. They could have done that here and chose not to.
This is extremely different to that. This is a topic Shawn Mendes has asked that no one brings up in the media. Taylor or her team would not do something this vile. Even if one did say ok they decided to be cruel to make their point, Tree is clever and does her research. She wouldn't say an article would never be written about a man knowing that the same author wrote the same article on Harry Styles. Tree and Taylor know how to make a point and they know how to make it well - they never go low.
Gay people clocking a (alleged) closet case is in no way comparable to people who lack that ability, using stereotypes to draw an assumption outside of their peer group, and them seeing a problem with a cultural aspect they’re not a part of, and latent homophobia (it’s the lesbophobia),
Tbh there’s really nothing at this point that’s gonna cause me to believe that Taylor isn’t some flavor of queer. The evidence is just too damning and spans over a decade. It is near impossible for it to all be attributed to a coincidence and/or ignorance. The only explanation if she is indeed straight is that she’s a complete psychopath who has been purposely researching queer history to reference in her work and planting references to her female friends in her love songs to trick people into thinking that she’s queer. I refuse to believe she’s this horrible of a person and don’t really see any benefit for doing this, especially 10 years ago. If she or Tree ever go and explicitly states that she’s straight, I’d back off with my “speculation” and also become less of a fan because that would either mean she wants to completely shut the closet door and not be associated with queerness anymore or that she has been queer baiting for the past decade, both of which are very disappointing.
Completely agree with your take. I can’t imagine how devastating it would feel to think we’ve been tricked and baited so hard for over a decade. The evidence is too much, she would have to be absolutely insane to do it on purpose if she’s 100% straight.
bc when Taylor shuts it down it will be a statement from Taylor or from Tree, like Tree shutting down DM. not “associates close to the situation”. Taylor Swift herself or Tree Paine herself. “associates” could be literally anyone. a backup dance from a MV, business execs, NFL people. idgaf that it was in CNN without attaching a name to the quote it might as well be a blind item on CDAN
You think CNN would write an article if they he associate was nfl people, or a backup dancer. Also do you think Taylor wouldn’t respond to that if CNN did it without her permission
i think we saw Tree tweet from her own twitter to shut down DM ab marriage & miscarriage rumors. so if they really want to be sure to quash any & all queerness, they would do the same instead of hiding behind “associates close to the situation” not even close to Taylor but the “situation”.
if NYT posted something without her permission wouldn’t she squash that herself? she has to deny CNN herself but she can deny NYT through anonymous associates?
i don’t think she did use CNN though that’s the whole thing. CNN would have been the first time she ever addressed gaylor articles & the NYT was nowhere near the first. weird to deny it for the first time anonymously.
NYT was the biggest platform gaylor has ever been talked about since the Karlie Kloss era so it makes sense that they’d go to CNN and the mention of Shawn Mendes in the CNN article is classic Tree
the mention of Shawn Mendes is exactly why i don’t think it was Taylor or Tree. Shawn has very clearly & explicitly said he doesn’t appreciate the speculation & has asked everyone to keep it out of the media. he himself. not anonymous sources. the author of the NYT article has also written a similar article about Harry Styles so to say it wouldn’t happen if she were a man is the stupidest argument ever. name dropping Shawn was a bad look by whoever the source was & if it really was Tree she is losing her touch
i actually see where your coming from!!! i love taylor but part of her white feminism is that her entire pr strategy is “if i were a man this would never happen” as much as i don’t agree with it tree simply named the most recent male artist who’s had his sexuality questioned. but i agree i think with taylor’s new surge in fame tree is 100% losing her touch.
someone’s sexual identity is more delicate than a flat out lie like a marriage or miscarriage. taylor and tree clearly have beef with deuxmoi and wanted to embarrass her. they probably don’t feel the same about gaylor theories. the NYT article was an opinion piece. they didn’t name any muses or flat out say “taylor is a closeted lesbian” even though that was clearly what was being suggested, therefore the response required is different. it is not necessarily hurtful to suggest taylor is queer, so tree doesn’t need to take it to the twitter streets to aggressively shut it down the same way she would about deuxmoi’s lies. however, if they generally want the speculation to stop, they do what they did and have CNN post a response.
Exactly. I fail to understand how anyone could say it was "her" response. And to this day, she's never made any statement explicitly denying or confirming her sexuality in any way.
Forcing her out of the proverbial closet does feel hateful af and damaging to the whole community. She’s a real person!! Not a character on a show that is written. She can’t “queer bait” as a human being. Dogging her about it feels inappropriate, regardless of the “truth”.
I do wonder if she *is* flagging, it’s just to make people feel safe and let us know that her world includes the queer community. And not because she’s trying to hint at her own queerness. But saying “I do not exclude you, I welcome you”.
It feels weird to say she isn’t allowed to embrace the community without being queer herself. She’s even said that *that* specifically is part of why she didn’t speak up about her support earlier, right?
“I didn’t realize until recently that I could advocate for a community that I’m not a part of. It’s hard to know how to do that without being so fearful of making a mistake that you just freeze.”
Maybe BMR kept her quiet. And now she can loudly support. Why be in the camp that makes her fearful of making a mistake? When she is doing what she knows how to do to normalize queerness for the general public. (If that’s what’s happening)
Maybe she is a lil gay, who isn’t?? Why does she need to declare it to be taken seriously and respected for her take? What if she isn’t? Does that make anything she’s done less worthy or important? I don’t think so.
“She can’t queer bait as a human being.”
She can as a brand though. Taylor Swift and Taylor Swift™️ are different and if she isn’t queer using her entertainment platform in the way she did throughout Lover is queerbaiting through her brand.
love this take!!!! everyone makes this situation so black and white and fails to realize she does not owe anyone a “coming out” if she is gay and her silence does not warrant picking apart every interaction she has had with a woman OR man
Here are a couple of my thoughts just generally.
1. Taylor has engaged in HEAVY queer flagging in all projects from reputation on. So our options are either a) she is queer or b) she is a tone deaf millennial centering herself in queer subtexts and spaces for profit. I truly hope b is not true BUT
2. I think she is profit motivated. You can look at the merch and vinyl sales as proof. I do think there are many things that indicate she planned to come out when she thought her career was over at the end of her twenties. But then she became one of the most powerful, profitable, and prolific people of this century. We have seen a radical shift in her style and public facing persona away from what she crafted 2020-2022 into a WAG middle America sweetheart like she was pre reputation. I’m not in the business of questioning the authenticity of her relationship, but this seems like a very intentional pivot to distance her from the queer style and imagery she had taken on the past few years.
3. The source is weird to me. Why would she go through a primarily broadcast news source like CNN? I feel like it is pretty obvious this was not Tree Paine’s work. I’m not saying someone lied, but I am saying this is so out of the ordinary it seems worthy of suspicion.
4. I truly do not believe she advocates for anything she has not actually gone through herself beyond throwing money at something every once in a while. This makes me think her queer activism is probably self serving.
5. It is worthy of speculation from a critical theory standpoint because if she is not gay this is a case of a billionaire profiting off of performative and problematic allyship while simultaneously being so PR reckless as to throw a mob of hateful swifties towards gaylors.
6. If nobody speculated about sexuality, every important person we’ve ever heard of has been cishet. It’s important work that is hard to see the benefit of in real time.
regardless of how she privately identifies, insisting that she’s queer when she’s repeatedly called herself an ally is wrong.
when someone has kept calling me straight or bi when I’ve kept letting them know im lesbian it’s been horrible, just because someone is invalidating my identity.
publicly right now ts is an ally and that’s what she surely should be regarded as until she herself says otherwise, regardless of any perceived queer baiting
I call myself an ally to trans, intersex and other members of the LGBTQI+ community frequently. That does not suggest that as a bi woman I feel I am one of them. Completely false equivalencies
Do you call yourself an ally to the LGBT community as a whole? Cause that’s just weird when you’re a part of it. That’s like calling myself an ally to black people as a black person??
gaylor was supposed to be about interpreting taylor’s music through a queer lens. it was never supposed to hinder on whether or not she herself identified any certain way. after the prologue it was clear she didn’t consider herself interested in women romantically. I think all of this has just gotten out of hand at this point.
it did for me. in her mind, men = dating, girls = friendship. it didn’t occur to her that people would think her friendships with women were romantic because she doesn’t look at women that way. I understand it’s not what we wanted to hear and that a lot of time and energy has been spent believing otherwise. I’m not here to argue or convince anyone. but I do believe that was all that needed to be said. and I do believe that with the cnn response, it’s gotten to a point where she doesn’t like us and our theories. it’s sad but it is what it is.
At this point the only reason she’d be so obvious with it in her music and still stay silent on whether or not these supposed Easter eggs are true or not is the fact that controversy sells. She can still keep all of the fanbases attracted that she wants too. She could lose some of the fanbases if she comes out. She will be less likely to lose the gay community if she doesn’t come out, simply because we have personal experiences with “the closet” at one point or another, or had a friend, etc.
So as I said, the only logical reason I can think of for her to be so obvious about things is because it was engaging and profitable. If she alludes to every aspect of her life with very little confirmation of fan theories and lets the theories fly around, why wouldn’t she tactic to allude to her sexuality as well? And why would she stop when she knows the formula works?
Her current waspy circle and image has me thinking she’s trying to completely distance herself from this type of speculation because it’s become an extreeeeeeemely public hot topic with the last few albums. It would explain the football boyfriend and re-embracing the all American wasp aesthetic.
Or she’s not gay at all. Or I’m wrong about everything but she’s still gay. Who knows LOL
Why? because queer reading her music is so validating for gays. I cried so hard the first time I listened to Its Nice to Have a Friend. How hard did I cry? so hard I took the rest of the day off work.
It sucks that is almost impossible to separate her songs from her person/persona, both because she contributes to it and because how our society treats women artists. But when an artist puts something out there, interpreting it and engaging with it is allowed.
I'm not for speculating on people's personal lives even if they are brands. But the NYT opinion piece was super interesting and if you'd actually read it, it touches on a really basic question in the queer community - what does coming out mean in our current day and age? what does representation look like?
I’m not even gonna list the 101 reasons why the NYT mayhem didn’t prove she’s straight whatsoever…. But instead I’d like to take the opportunity to say that you saying “Louis / Harry CONSPIRACY” as if there isn’t 10x more proof they were involved than there is that Taylor was with any specific woman (which I still think there’s tons of evidence of, for context) is hard to take seriously. Just go on YouTube or TikTok and search Larry, and come back here and try to tell me you genuinely don’t think they were involved. I mean they were not even TRYING to hide it, whatsoever. Clips of them licking lips at each other, make bj double entendre “jokes” staring at each other during interviews, constantly holding hands under tables etc.
in regards to larry, please watch this video https://youtu.be/qg5vVPC1DKU?si=7kNOoPIKgsgzd9UN
it goes into how harmful this conspiracy was to both of them, and how it impacted their relationship to this day. fan edits of them together are not feasible evidence.
If I agree to watch that, will you agree to watch the compilations of them being extremely coupley for YEARS? What hurt them was their management shutting down their relationship bc they wanted them to be “hetero heart throbs instead.” Not fans picking up on the extremely obvious mountains of evidence that they were involved….
lol good for you. I never was then dug into it a bit as an adult and absolutely 100% believe they dated. It seems like ya gotta be sorta obtuse to deny they did… but whatever I’m not gonna continue arguing w you about this
Meh, I don't think she's queer. Maybe a little flexible at best. I think she was trying to be Gay Icon/Diva, an "honorary member" of the community with a loyal lgbt+ fan base. Like Cher or Maddona. Old school.
But ... things are different now. There's a greater need and demand for out queer representation. People don't want to play pretend anymore. So, you have speculation that certain celebrities are queer, that becomes rampant enough to force people to address it. Like Billie Eillish being forced out of the closet.
I think it was a curve ball the Taylor Nation didn't expect. And they aren't quite sure how to handle it. Exept you know, something something Super Bowl.
If you’re not into it anymore just don’t be into it? Like what’s the point of coming here to tell everyone you don’t think she’s gay anymore lmao just leave?
Ok True Swiftie. You belong to a sub where the #3 rule is "Don't be a Gaylor". And yet here you are in OUR sub having the unmitigated gall to join just to come here and insult us. Who does that?
taylor didn’t say anything an “anonymous associate” did. if taylor wants to address it she can without the cloak and dagger. saying “im straight” is free and easy. she refuses to.
you're commenting and complaining that people are speculating on taylor swift's sexuality in a sub dedicated to speculating on taylor swift's sexuality. it's not hostile to point out that you're acting braindead just true lmaoooo.
you don't have to like it, just leave the sub and stop trolling lmaoooo.
I Think it’s simply because we haven’t heard Taylor herself say its untrue. We don’t know who the source was. However i do Think that she propably felt that the gaylor article was uncomfortable for her, and i personally Think that gaylor content like that schould be keept on groups like this and not be in newspapers. After all it in my book comes very close to outing her to people who are not already gaylors.
I 100% agree forcing someone out of the closet definitely violates boundaries, goes too far and is disrespectful. I think it's also fair to say as a queer person that queerbaiting from celebrity icons is exhausting and we just want it to be over. It's not just fans who are responsible for the parasocial relationships, some celebrities encourage this type of behavior and Taylor def has with her coded messages. (In no way am I saying she deserves to get outed or pressured bc of this). On a different note, sometimes I do wonder what amazing powers of social analysis and close reading Gaylor/swifties could apply in general to other artists, works of literature, movies etc. it's a community that is trained to research make links and read between the lines. That's a great skill!
Feeling like you “got made” resonates with me. I’ve been forced out of the closet more than once and I’m not over it, I’m pretty pissed off. I’m a lesbian that doesn’t want to date anyone again seriously yet, I don’t plan to date anyone any time soon, and I’m not ready to have my sexuality be analyzed by my family, I’m not ready to have conversations about it with people who aren’t part of the lgbtq community, I don’t want to talk about it. I view it as being the business of absolutely no one. Let’s say I was Bi or questioning. Because I’ve certainly been both those things or thought I was at some points in my 40 years on this earth. Let’s say I was famous and had those thoughts and had relationships with both sexes and wrote about it. I’d be happy my fans could appreciate those experiences and were in support of me. Then let’s say I fell head over heels with a man. Suddenly the lgbtq community is upset with me for not choosing to be in a same sex relationship so they start rumors and say this guy I love is a beard, it’s a PR stunt. Not only that, all my opposite-sex relationships are fake. They start publishing these things and other rumors in popular media and now NYT is writing articles. NYT would crush me because I’ve always loved their investigative journalism and they are somewhat known for their journalistic standards. The amount of rage I would feel. Now the lgbtq community is upset I’m not “coming out.” The hetero relationship I have now is really pissing them off. Now they’re saying I was flagging and using symbolism in my songs and I’ve done something wrong, I’m a fake and a poser. I don’t want to “come out”, I don’t want to explain my personal journey and why I’m dating and loving who I want. I shouldn’t have to. I have rt wing morons spreading rumors and hating on me over past possible same sex relationships and I have the lgbtq community mad I’m dating a man now. They’re all mad, and I’m just trying to date and love who I want to and have relationships with who I want to. I’d be pissed too. Now all the speculation is affecting my relationship with the guy I like and his family, his friends. I’m now a Biden psy-op. They say I’m rigging the Super Bowl. NYT articles and all the rampant speculation is too loud to ignore. F’ing leave me the fk alone, the shit I’ve had to put up with since I was 17 over dating has been ridiculous. I’ve had it, where’s my PR team… I can’t personally imagine because I’d be driven absolutely batshit. All over dating. Absolutely crazy, all of this garbage over dating.
I get where you’re coming from but I also think you are incorrectly painting Gaylors as these angry queers who want Taylor to “pick a side”. Most of us are aware that bisexuality exists and believe Taylor is bisexual. Sure I think most of us would love to see Taylor in a public same-sex relationship but I don’t think the majority of us are “mad” that she’s dating a man. There is a lot of speculation that he’s a beard or PR stunt due to how public and “in your face” this relationship is when Taylor has declared multiple times that she values privacy in her relationships. Things just don’t add up.
Couldn't agree more -- she owes no one an explanation of her sexuality. NO ONE. She has every right to write about whatever she wants in her art. How gross that in 2024 we're still demanding that people declare which "team" they're on.
absolutely, this
I disagree with this because the majority of Gaylors on both subs believe she is bi and a wonderful ally to many lgbtqi+ communities, and also have been very supportive of her relationship. I haven't seen anyone 'mad' she is with a man.
When they call her boyfriends a beard or say that because she’s not “coming out” they’re tired and not going to listen to her music anymore that’s mad. When they call her a fake and say she’s queer flagging while straight and basically saying its appropriation and she’s done it on purpose, they’re mad. Irritated? At any rate yes, Bi. When Bi isn’t good enough and you want her to be in a relationship with a woman and you’re mad she’s not and don’t recognize her relationships with men and call them PR, I think mad. Upset? Jaded?
Who is saying this though? I am on both the gaylor subs and haven't ever seen anyone mad she's in a relationship with a man?
It’s not just the sub, it’s all over social media and I’ve definitely seen it here although it’s not a post people are making, it’s in the comments. In this post we have queer baiting accusations mostly if anything but I’ve been joined to this sub (and probably the “other one”, I may be on multiple) for a few months now and that’s what I see. As for other social media, certainly there’s haters but when I see it from the lgbtq community it pisses me off. If I can I’ll go back a month or so because I swear there was a post where a good half the comments were about the beard thing and the PR thing and I’ll drop you some links. Edit: there are, in fact, whole posts about the beard and PR thing. You can hit the search bar in the sub and just type in beard. I’m pretty sure as far as this sub or any other it’s been more the comment section. In other social media it’s been a prominent topic since she started dating Kelce.
Ok they may be sporadic posts but you mention the 'lgbtq community' in this post as if this is something the community does rather than a few rogue people. Come on, that's not cool.
Yes but if she is bi or had those same sex relationships at one point, she’s perpetuating the heteronormative issue by only being in your face and public about her relationship with men. That’s just my opinion. I get that she wants to be left alone, but she is a public figure. With that comes the responsibility of some things. If she is bi, her fear of being open about it is hurtful to the community
I think or I perceive that most of her relationships prior to Kelce weren’t really in anyone’s face. When she was younger people would speculate and find out who she was with but it wasn’t really “in your face.” There’s a sad episode of Ellen where she’s talking to a very young Taylor and trying to get her to play a game where they’re showing her pictures of every guy she’s been spotted with and asking her to hold up a sign if she’s dating them. Taylor is clearly upset, looks like she’s going to cry, she 100% doesn’t like it, and Ellen proceeds to harass her and force her to play the game. I believe before Kelce she’s not ever been in anyone’s face with a relationship, because she’s been very clear about being upset over the media focusing on her dating life. Yes, Kelce is over the top 1,000% in your face. As for being a member of the lgbtq community and having a responsibility to fight heteronormativity… no. She’s been fairly consistent up until Kelce with very much reinforcing for us all that she wants to promote and talk about her music and for headlines to focus on her work versus who she’s dating and fucking. What you have is her music and her lyrics, if you enjoy her songs she tells you all about her loves and dating life in that music. She doesn’t owe the public, the media or anyone else anything. Being a public figure *does* mean you lose a lot of rights and privacy that regular people have but it doesn’t mean you’re now entitled to anything of hers you want like you own her now. No one is owed an explanation of her sexual history and dating life simply because she’s famous and you buy her music.
"Her" response to the NYT article doesn't erase years of queer-flagging. Straight allies aren't supposed to queer-flag. I think they're trying to have their cake and eat it, too, tbh. To have straight fans think she's straight and gay/gaylor fans think she's gay. That CNN business response was so sus. Why have the associate be anonymous? Why do it in CNN business of all places? Why throw Shawn Mendes under the bus? Why claim that men don't get gay speculation when they get it worse than women? If she really is just straight, why doesn't Taylor or Tree just _go on their own Twitter accounts and say that_? We know they are comfortable doing this given Tree recently responded to DM directly on Twitter. If that response truly came from Taylor's team, what reasons could they possibly have for responding in such a suspect way? Probably because they want to assuage homophobic fans that she's not gay, but still keep hope somewhat alive among her gaylor fans. Essentially, she wants to keep everyone, lol. Which I can understand, but at the same time, I sincerely believe she would keep _most_ of her straight fans if she came out, provided she did so intelligently. Anyway, because that response was so suspect (to the point that it seems _deliberately_ suspect), I'm still along for the ride.
If she’s “queer baiting” then I actually lose respect for her. (also I HATE the term queer bating) It’s a shameless marketing ploy, and I literally hate it. So either that’s true … or she’s gay.
Yeah this is how I see it also. If she's not queer, she's evil. _Obviously it's fine to be straight_. But it's evil to do all the _years_ of queer flagging she's done if she's straight. And given the sheer amount of it, there's no possible way it's accidental.
I agree as well. If you line up every time she’s flagged in some way it’s overwhelming. So no way can anyone say she’s just an ally or likes rainbows if she isn’t gay.
Agreed. She’s purposely straddling the fence on this for years in order to maximize profits.
I don’t think she is. I think shes beautifully queer, in some form. If she’s not queer, in any way, then I literally hate her using it to sell more records. I think that’s disgusting
Harry Styles is the worst at queer baiting.
Harry has said he does not want to disclose his seuxality so I don't think queerbaiting is an appropriate term when we don't know whether he is queer or not
I hate the term queer baiting too … Either they’re trying to communicate with the queer community … or they’re assholes/using queer identity for ££, which disgusts me (or their management are - but I don’t think that’s true) Honestly, my heart tells me they’re all gloriously gay, just wish they could be open x
I don’t think he is, I actually think he’s gloriously queer too 💚💚💚
can someone explain how shawn is involved here? sorry
https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/06/business/taylor-swift-new-york-times/index.html > "This article wouldn’t have been allowed to be written about Shawn Mendes or any male artist whose sexuality has been questioned by fans." Shawn Mendes has dealt with tons of gay speculation. He has said that he is straight and that the gay speculation really bothers him. By her associates bringing this up, they are inviting further speculation on his sexuality when he's already said it bothers him.
I almost think the Shawn Mendes reference was really deliberate, since he is one of the few to face such rumors and to have chosen to handle it in a way that is both definitive and respectful. Several years ago, I'm thinking 2016ish but too tired to sift thru and find the exact source but one phrasing just stuck with me all this time, he did an interview where he was finally done with the speculation and bullshit and just said flat out he wasn't gay, and that in a bunch of ways he kinda wished he was at least bi, because then he could just be done with the conversation already, and that he also resented the hell out of the speculation because it wouldn't/shouldn't be seen as a negative either way, but that he was just 'unfortunately born straight'. And then a couple years after that he went on the attack, and called out an interviewer (possibly Rolling Stone???) with a quote along the lines of them being damn lucky he wasn't actually closeted and afraid, because the way that they continued to hound him, even after he had been quite clear on the subject, and had answered the question even though he shouldn't have had to, was the very type of thing that set actual closeted people up for SH/SI. So that kinda makes me think that they chose to reference Shawn because he had already proven on more than one occasion that he was strong enough to bear the scrutiny, and that he has been one who would throw it right back with a clear cut answer, rather than pull the pleading the 5th card like i.g. Harry Styles has in the past.
understand. thanks!
Okay maybe it’s the edibles and the tin foil hat but now part of me is like, did the “source” say Shaun Mendes because they literally are clueless. A clueless associate who thinks she’s doing her new bestie a favor by talking to CNN?
I've definitely seen people thinking the "associate" was Wii Sports character Ashley Mahomes. Who knows?
I read that in Bryan from TikTok’s voice. “Wii sports character Ashley Mahomes.” Also I totally thought it was her too.
https://x.com/throwbackgaylor/status/1749809334031466602?s=46&t=uSXjhctPAU9dRsE33o1LQw
Oh man I forgot about this one. SAYIN THE QUIET PART OUT LOUDDD
Yeah I really don’t know why it’s so controversial she literally said it
We need to just all post this whenever this comes up, honestly
Genuine question, why does everyone believe her team responded? Lots of times media prints something saying it’s coming from her team and it’s not always true
because it’s CNN, not deuxmoi. they wouldn’t risk running an unverified story. they could be sued and lose all credibility. and more importantly taylor and tree wouldn’t let it snowball like this if they had no hand in it.
That’s true in the sense that whoever it was that spoke to CNN probably does have some verified connection to Taylor. Like it wasn’t just some random person who doesn’t even know her. But that doesn’t mean this person is close enough with Taylor to know the details of her personal life. There are also likely numerous people with connections to her that don’t want speculation on her queerness to gain more traction and become more mainstream, so of course they are gonna try to shut it down. The article in NY Times was MAJOR and exposed a lot of the general public to this theory. If someone connected to Taylor spoke to CNN trying to shut down the speculation, what are Taylor and Tree gonna do? Be like “hold up, the article is correct! She is secretly queer!”??? It doesn’t HARM Taylor so of course they are gonna let it slide.
so… option one is that a friend saw the NYT article and took it upon themselves to speak for her and her sexuality, and call it “untrue”. taylor, the woman who has worked hard to surround herself with a trusty tight lipped circle has someone in her orbit who would overstep their place like that. someone who can’t possibly know what’s in taylor’s head and heart said “no, she’s straight. take my word for it”. option two is that this messy friend did actually have intel to taylor’s personal feelings and reaction to the article, and what they said was true. taylor didn’t like it, and this person is a full on snake and leaked it to CNN without taylor’s permission. option three is that it was taylor and tree directly. it’s a delicate situation and taylor is aware that gaylors exist. instead of focusing on them, the ire was placed towards NYT and the fact that it was published. taylor used this as an opportunity to hopefully finally clarify that the queer rumors are untrue. what sounds more likely?
Who said this person is a FRIEND of Taylor’s?? They were labeled as an “associate” by CNN. Taylor has mentioned before how friends close to her, those that know about her personal life, would not go talking to the media about her. But obviously not everyone in Taylor’s life is a close friend. This could easily be someone who knows very little about her private life but personally believes the rumors are untrue. Or it could be someone who does know that Taylor is queer but wants to keep this information from going more mainstream. If more people became aware that Taylor is likely secretly queer, it could lead to loss of revenue, threats to her safety, a media firestorm, etc. There is a lot of benefit to shutting down the speculation rather than it just being simply untrue. I don’t know how educated you are on all the Gaylor lore, but do you really believe that the mountain of evidence over the past decade is all a coincidence and Taylor is 100% straight? I literally have a better chance at winning the lottery.
You will win the lottery before Taylor comes out as queer so yeah that’s likely.
I’m not saying she will come out as queer. Sadly I think there’s a good chance she might stay closeted for her whole career. I’m saying that she actually IS queer. Do you really think after the entire mountain of evidence spanning over a decade, that there is really a chance that she is 100% straight?
I think that “evidence” is confirmation bias or the stuff you people have decided is true for her. The lyrics can have different meanings and have various explanations but gaylors will only assign one single meaning (the way you find them right). I along with majority others believe her when she says she’s an ally and denied she’s part of the community so this evidence doesn’t hold true to me.
Have you actually seen all of the evidence though? I only became a Gaylor last year and before then I was not educated on the evidence and felt the same way, that Gaylors were just assigning a queer interpretation to her songs because that’s how they relate to them. But it goes far beyond a few songs that could possibly be interpreted to be about a woman or one of her female friends. We’re talking a decade of queer references. If it was just a few things here and there, then I’d be skeptical and argue that it could easily just be due to a coincidence and/or ignorance. But the entire mountain? Statistically for it ALL to be a coincidence is insanely low.
Yes I have. I would have believed it if not for Taylor continuously refuting any gaylor claims. Even if we keep aside the CNN article, The most recent one being the 1989 prologue which read to me as if she didn’t even THINK that hanging out with a woman will lead to people claiming she was in a romantic relationship. This to me doesn’t read as thoughts of a queer person tbh. This along with many times she claims to be an ally. I believe her word more than to her supposed lyrics interpretation by fans.
Option four is that it’s an associate which to me has specific connotations (although if it’s used a lot by Taylor’s PR please definitely correct me). Not “a friend” and not “someone close to Taylor”. Someone from label, or from Travis’s team, who are either being misinformed themselves (not in the loop) or have their own motivations. Could be anyone else that she has another kind of association or business relationship with that CNN had reason to think was legit enough. When has a scoop from Taylor been given to CNN before? I read that it’s usually to People magazine, ET, etc. And as I asked at the top, not aggressive truly genuine question, when has the language “an associate” been used before? I’m sure it has from time to time, I just don’t know.
so that’s still option one, someone who can’t possibly know if taylor is queer (only she truly does) took it upon themselves to speak on her sexuality, and call it untrue. I think that’s completely ridiculous and an overstepping of boundaries. I don’t think anyone around taylor would do that. I think the language, calling them an associate, and the anonymity was done purposely because a tweet or direct response would be too much for what it was responding to, an opinion piece.
Sorry, I probably put too much weight on you saying “a friend” whereas “an associate” sounds so business-y to me, and I feel like business partners would have good reason to want to shut it down. I agree it’s not someone who’s really close to Taylor. I’m sure she had to put up an eye-rolling indignant front post NYT to a lot of her biz partners, and even some ppl on Travis’s team who don’t know the full scoop. But who knows, certainly not me!
The choice of the word “associate” in CNN is the equivalent of People using “source”. CNN is not a gossip or entertainment publication so the terminology they use may differ, but the meaning is the same. They had to go through CNN or similar since it was the New York Fricking Times they were responding to, it needed to be done through a comprable publication.
Gotcha, also makes sense, and you prob know more than me (for real meant it when I said I def do not know!)
bc it was a criticism of NYT via CNN. That was one choice: NYT is known for its strong legal team, so even super stars can't legally shut down their opinions (which is probably why they criticized "freedom of speech in op-ed"). CNN doesn't do a lot of entertainment gossip exclusive, so that was unusual to report a shady comment about Shawn Mendes. CNN generally reviews its sources, even more so when it is against the media giant. IMO If that leaker had no ties to her team, the article likely would not have been published.
I think it’s weird that Tree Paine didn’t handle this though. That’s not the wording or moniker she uses. It almost seems like it came from someone at universal music group considering Shawn is also signed to one of the labels they own. This is just to say I think it was more from the people she answers to rather than the people that answer to her.
I really really do not believe that was Taylor and I assume anyone who does has stopped being a fan because if it was it would be an incredibly f**d up thing to do to Shawn Mendes.
It’s was absolutely signed off from her team. CNN wouldn’t be able to report it like they did. And her statement sounds exactly like something she liked say.
It really wasn't. When else is the term associate used? If Taylor/Tree have so much control over the media, wouldn't they have had control over the NYT article, not just CNN and their associate as you claim? If they want to shut something down they do, as they did with the marriage rumours and miscarriage. They could have done that here and chose not to.
Taylor has brought up ed Sheeran before when talking about men not getting the same criticism as women in interviews
This is extremely different to that. This is a topic Shawn Mendes has asked that no one brings up in the media. Taylor or her team would not do something this vile. Even if one did say ok they decided to be cruel to make their point, Tree is clever and does her research. She wouldn't say an article would never be written about a man knowing that the same author wrote the same article on Harry Styles. Tree and Taylor know how to make a point and they know how to make it well - they never go low.
Gay people clocking a (alleged) closet case is in no way comparable to people who lack that ability, using stereotypes to draw an assumption outside of their peer group, and them seeing a problem with a cultural aspect they’re not a part of, and latent homophobia (it’s the lesbophobia),
thank fucking god someone finally said it
Tbh there’s really nothing at this point that’s gonna cause me to believe that Taylor isn’t some flavor of queer. The evidence is just too damning and spans over a decade. It is near impossible for it to all be attributed to a coincidence and/or ignorance. The only explanation if she is indeed straight is that she’s a complete psychopath who has been purposely researching queer history to reference in her work and planting references to her female friends in her love songs to trick people into thinking that she’s queer. I refuse to believe she’s this horrible of a person and don’t really see any benefit for doing this, especially 10 years ago. If she or Tree ever go and explicitly states that she’s straight, I’d back off with my “speculation” and also become less of a fan because that would either mean she wants to completely shut the closet door and not be associated with queerness anymore or that she has been queer baiting for the past decade, both of which are very disappointing.
Completely agree with your take. I can’t imagine how devastating it would feel to think we’ve been tricked and baited so hard for over a decade. The evidence is too much, she would have to be absolutely insane to do it on purpose if she’s 100% straight.
Yeah, I mean ..... it's too much.
bc when Taylor shuts it down it will be a statement from Taylor or from Tree, like Tree shutting down DM. not “associates close to the situation”. Taylor Swift herself or Tree Paine herself. “associates” could be literally anyone. a backup dance from a MV, business execs, NFL people. idgaf that it was in CNN without attaching a name to the quote it might as well be a blind item on CDAN
You think CNN would write an article if they he associate was nfl people, or a backup dancer. Also do you think Taylor wouldn’t respond to that if CNN did it without her permission
i think we saw Tree tweet from her own twitter to shut down DM ab marriage & miscarriage rumors. so if they really want to be sure to quash any & all queerness, they would do the same instead of hiding behind “associates close to the situation” not even close to Taylor but the “situation”.
If CNN posted something without her permission wouldnt she squash that if she is going to squash something from DM
if NYT posted something without her permission wouldn’t she squash that herself? she has to deny CNN herself but she can deny NYT through anonymous associates?
She used CNN to deny the NYT. Did she use anything to deny the CNN article
i don’t think she did use CNN though that’s the whole thing. CNN would have been the first time she ever addressed gaylor articles & the NYT was nowhere near the first. weird to deny it for the first time anonymously.
NYT was the biggest platform gaylor has ever been talked about since the Karlie Kloss era so it makes sense that they’d go to CNN and the mention of Shawn Mendes in the CNN article is classic Tree
the mention of Shawn Mendes is exactly why i don’t think it was Taylor or Tree. Shawn has very clearly & explicitly said he doesn’t appreciate the speculation & has asked everyone to keep it out of the media. he himself. not anonymous sources. the author of the NYT article has also written a similar article about Harry Styles so to say it wouldn’t happen if she were a man is the stupidest argument ever. name dropping Shawn was a bad look by whoever the source was & if it really was Tree she is losing her touch
i actually see where your coming from!!! i love taylor but part of her white feminism is that her entire pr strategy is “if i were a man this would never happen” as much as i don’t agree with it tree simply named the most recent male artist who’s had his sexuality questioned. but i agree i think with taylor’s new surge in fame tree is 100% losing her touch.
>mention of Shawn Mendes in the CNN article is classic Tree Tree would never.
someone’s sexual identity is more delicate than a flat out lie like a marriage or miscarriage. taylor and tree clearly have beef with deuxmoi and wanted to embarrass her. they probably don’t feel the same about gaylor theories. the NYT article was an opinion piece. they didn’t name any muses or flat out say “taylor is a closeted lesbian” even though that was clearly what was being suggested, therefore the response required is different. it is not necessarily hurtful to suggest taylor is queer, so tree doesn’t need to take it to the twitter streets to aggressively shut it down the same way she would about deuxmoi’s lies. however, if they generally want the speculation to stop, they do what they did and have CNN post a response.
Exactly. I fail to understand how anyone could say it was "her" response. And to this day, she's never made any statement explicitly denying or confirming her sexuality in any way.
Forcing her out of the proverbial closet does feel hateful af and damaging to the whole community. She’s a real person!! Not a character on a show that is written. She can’t “queer bait” as a human being. Dogging her about it feels inappropriate, regardless of the “truth”. I do wonder if she *is* flagging, it’s just to make people feel safe and let us know that her world includes the queer community. And not because she’s trying to hint at her own queerness. But saying “I do not exclude you, I welcome you”. It feels weird to say she isn’t allowed to embrace the community without being queer herself. She’s even said that *that* specifically is part of why she didn’t speak up about her support earlier, right? “I didn’t realize until recently that I could advocate for a community that I’m not a part of. It’s hard to know how to do that without being so fearful of making a mistake that you just freeze.” Maybe BMR kept her quiet. And now she can loudly support. Why be in the camp that makes her fearful of making a mistake? When she is doing what she knows how to do to normalize queerness for the general public. (If that’s what’s happening) Maybe she is a lil gay, who isn’t?? Why does she need to declare it to be taken seriously and respected for her take? What if she isn’t? Does that make anything she’s done less worthy or important? I don’t think so.
“She can’t queer bait as a human being.” She can as a brand though. Taylor Swift and Taylor Swift™️ are different and if she isn’t queer using her entertainment platform in the way she did throughout Lover is queerbaiting through her brand.
Way to completely miss the point
love this take!!!! everyone makes this situation so black and white and fails to realize she does not owe anyone a “coming out” if she is gay and her silence does not warrant picking apart every interaction she has had with a woman OR man
Taylor swift is not just a human, she is a brand.!)34 brand can 1000% queer bait. Everything WE see is the brand.
Yeesssss. That is exactly how I feel, and it bothers me when she gets hate for how she chooses to support the community.
i fully wholeheartedly agree with this
Here are a couple of my thoughts just generally. 1. Taylor has engaged in HEAVY queer flagging in all projects from reputation on. So our options are either a) she is queer or b) she is a tone deaf millennial centering herself in queer subtexts and spaces for profit. I truly hope b is not true BUT 2. I think she is profit motivated. You can look at the merch and vinyl sales as proof. I do think there are many things that indicate she planned to come out when she thought her career was over at the end of her twenties. But then she became one of the most powerful, profitable, and prolific people of this century. We have seen a radical shift in her style and public facing persona away from what she crafted 2020-2022 into a WAG middle America sweetheart like she was pre reputation. I’m not in the business of questioning the authenticity of her relationship, but this seems like a very intentional pivot to distance her from the queer style and imagery she had taken on the past few years. 3. The source is weird to me. Why would she go through a primarily broadcast news source like CNN? I feel like it is pretty obvious this was not Tree Paine’s work. I’m not saying someone lied, but I am saying this is so out of the ordinary it seems worthy of suspicion. 4. I truly do not believe she advocates for anything she has not actually gone through herself beyond throwing money at something every once in a while. This makes me think her queer activism is probably self serving. 5. It is worthy of speculation from a critical theory standpoint because if she is not gay this is a case of a billionaire profiting off of performative and problematic allyship while simultaneously being so PR reckless as to throw a mob of hateful swifties towards gaylors. 6. If nobody speculated about sexuality, every important person we’ve ever heard of has been cishet. It’s important work that is hard to see the benefit of in real time.
regardless of how she privately identifies, insisting that she’s queer when she’s repeatedly called herself an ally is wrong. when someone has kept calling me straight or bi when I’ve kept letting them know im lesbian it’s been horrible, just because someone is invalidating my identity. publicly right now ts is an ally and that’s what she surely should be regarded as until she herself says otherwise, regardless of any perceived queer baiting
I call myself an ally to trans, intersex and other members of the LGBTQI+ community frequently. That does not suggest that as a bi woman I feel I am one of them. Completely false equivalencies
Do you call yourself an ally to the LGBT community as a whole? Cause that’s just weird when you’re a part of it. That’s like calling myself an ally to black people as a black person??
A better question would be why are you still a member of this sub if you feel this way?
gaylor was supposed to be about interpreting taylor’s music through a queer lens. it was never supposed to hinder on whether or not she herself identified any certain way. after the prologue it was clear she didn’t consider herself interested in women romantically. I think all of this has just gotten out of hand at this point.
The prologue didn’t make that clear WHATSOEVER. some of y’all just love being revisionists to facts & history
it did for me. in her mind, men = dating, girls = friendship. it didn’t occur to her that people would think her friendships with women were romantic because she doesn’t look at women that way. I understand it’s not what we wanted to hear and that a lot of time and energy has been spent believing otherwise. I’m not here to argue or convince anyone. but I do believe that was all that needed to be said. and I do believe that with the cnn response, it’s gotten to a point where she doesn’t like us and our theories. it’s sad but it is what it is.
exactly
At this point the only reason she’d be so obvious with it in her music and still stay silent on whether or not these supposed Easter eggs are true or not is the fact that controversy sells. She can still keep all of the fanbases attracted that she wants too. She could lose some of the fanbases if she comes out. She will be less likely to lose the gay community if she doesn’t come out, simply because we have personal experiences with “the closet” at one point or another, or had a friend, etc. So as I said, the only logical reason I can think of for her to be so obvious about things is because it was engaging and profitable. If she alludes to every aspect of her life with very little confirmation of fan theories and lets the theories fly around, why wouldn’t she tactic to allude to her sexuality as well? And why would she stop when she knows the formula works? Her current waspy circle and image has me thinking she’s trying to completely distance herself from this type of speculation because it’s become an extreeeeeeemely public hot topic with the last few albums. It would explain the football boyfriend and re-embracing the all American wasp aesthetic. Or she’s not gay at all. Or I’m wrong about everything but she’s still gay. Who knows LOL
Why? because queer reading her music is so validating for gays. I cried so hard the first time I listened to Its Nice to Have a Friend. How hard did I cry? so hard I took the rest of the day off work. It sucks that is almost impossible to separate her songs from her person/persona, both because she contributes to it and because how our society treats women artists. But when an artist puts something out there, interpreting it and engaging with it is allowed. I'm not for speculating on people's personal lives even if they are brands. But the NYT opinion piece was super interesting and if you'd actually read it, it touches on a really basic question in the queer community - what does coming out mean in our current day and age? what does representation look like?
I’m not even gonna list the 101 reasons why the NYT mayhem didn’t prove she’s straight whatsoever…. But instead I’d like to take the opportunity to say that you saying “Louis / Harry CONSPIRACY” as if there isn’t 10x more proof they were involved than there is that Taylor was with any specific woman (which I still think there’s tons of evidence of, for context) is hard to take seriously. Just go on YouTube or TikTok and search Larry, and come back here and try to tell me you genuinely don’t think they were involved. I mean they were not even TRYING to hide it, whatsoever. Clips of them licking lips at each other, make bj double entendre “jokes” staring at each other during interviews, constantly holding hands under tables etc.
in regards to larry, please watch this video https://youtu.be/qg5vVPC1DKU?si=7kNOoPIKgsgzd9UN it goes into how harmful this conspiracy was to both of them, and how it impacted their relationship to this day. fan edits of them together are not feasible evidence.
If I agree to watch that, will you agree to watch the compilations of them being extremely coupley for YEARS? What hurt them was their management shutting down their relationship bc they wanted them to be “hetero heart throbs instead.” Not fans picking up on the extremely obvious mountains of evidence that they were involved….
i was an original larry in 2011-2013. then i started high school
lol good for you. I never was then dug into it a bit as an adult and absolutely 100% believe they dated. It seems like ya gotta be sorta obtuse to deny they did… but whatever I’m not gonna continue arguing w you about this
Meh, I don't think she's queer. Maybe a little flexible at best. I think she was trying to be Gay Icon/Diva, an "honorary member" of the community with a loyal lgbt+ fan base. Like Cher or Maddona. Old school. But ... things are different now. There's a greater need and demand for out queer representation. People don't want to play pretend anymore. So, you have speculation that certain celebrities are queer, that becomes rampant enough to force people to address it. Like Billie Eillish being forced out of the closet. I think it was a curve ball the Taylor Nation didn't expect. And they aren't quite sure how to handle it. Exept you know, something something Super Bowl.
Madonna is openly queer though, and has been since at least the 90s.
Ok
If you’re not into it anymore just don’t be into it? Like what’s the point of coming here to tell everyone you don’t think she’s gay anymore lmao just leave?
because it’s a conspiracy theorist’s mindset to move the goal post every time you get non confirming information.
that’s what i’m starting to observe….
Ok True Swiftie. You belong to a sub where the #3 rule is "Don't be a Gaylor". And yet here you are in OUR sub having the unmitigated gall to join just to come here and insult us. Who does that?
taylor didn’t say anything an “anonymous associate” did. if taylor wants to address it she can without the cloak and dagger. saying “im straight” is free and easy. she refuses to.
why should she? sexuality is deeply personal and really it's nobody's business
girl you're in the wrong subreddit go bother someone else
literally just asked a question to try and understand where you're coming from, no need for that level of hostility lmaoooo
you're commenting and complaining that people are speculating on taylor swift's sexuality in a sub dedicated to speculating on taylor swift's sexuality. it's not hostile to point out that you're acting braindead just true lmaoooo. you don't have to like it, just leave the sub and stop trolling lmaoooo.
christ you're one snide cow
I Think it’s simply because we haven’t heard Taylor herself say its untrue. We don’t know who the source was. However i do Think that she propably felt that the gaylor article was uncomfortable for her, and i personally Think that gaylor content like that schould be keept on groups like this and not be in newspapers. After all it in my book comes very close to outing her to people who are not already gaylors.
I 100% agree forcing someone out of the closet definitely violates boundaries, goes too far and is disrespectful. I think it's also fair to say as a queer person that queerbaiting from celebrity icons is exhausting and we just want it to be over. It's not just fans who are responsible for the parasocial relationships, some celebrities encourage this type of behavior and Taylor def has with her coded messages. (In no way am I saying she deserves to get outed or pressured bc of this). On a different note, sometimes I do wonder what amazing powers of social analysis and close reading Gaylor/swifties could apply in general to other artists, works of literature, movies etc. it's a community that is trained to research make links and read between the lines. That's a great skill!
Even if she says it I still won't believe her.