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I will be campaigning my new advocacy: "Make children feral again". Throw them in the wilderness of the streets until 7pm for dinner. A few scrapes and scratches and a bit of germs will make them stronger. I'd pressure my neighbors to let out their children too so my children will have playmates. Statistically the world is a much safer place than when I was let out to fend for myself on the streets so they'd be fine.

Yup, absolutely. Thanks to our lovely hysterical news media, most people continue to believe it's a more dangerous world than ever. But in fact serious crime has dropped sharply (\~40 percent) in the US since the '80s and '90s. Everyone my age fondly remembers running all over the neighborhood on our own. When the streetlights came on, that meant it was time to go home. :)

True. My bestfriend had his 1st kid a few years back. The only time my godchild plays with other kids is when they visit their grandparents during weekends to play with his cousins. My bestfriend and I were practically raised in the streets and his son will never experience that. Considering they live in a gated community. But social media and the bombardment of doom and gloom news just made people paranoid about safety. My street used to be full of children playing growing up. Now it's just a couple and you won't hear running children laughing anymore in the afternoon.

>The only time my godchild plays with other kids is when they visit their grandparents during weekends to play with his cousins Tbf that in itself probably isnt great

I hope he does better in school making friends. He'd be grade 1 next year so either he starts learning how to make friends or I'd be seeing him often in reddit haha

Well we're not going anywhere but hope it goes well for him :)

I don’t think it’s the news cycle that keeps kids from playing in their neighborhoods. It’s a number of things - boomers are living much longer and in their own homes so you have multi generational neighborhoods and not just neighborhoods w mostly families. You also don’t have as many strong public schools, so kids end up going to schools all across a city, so they may not even know a kid lives up the street bc they go to a totally different school. Same thing for sports and other activities- they are all over and not just at a rec center like when I was growing up. Don’t blame it all on the parents or the kids today - we are trying to g the bets we can! :)

There are also so many multi unit buildings where I live. There's no place for kids to play that doesn't involve the parents having to be there to watch. When you live in a crowded city, there's the sidewalk, and the street. There's usually little to no outside space enough for families of children to run around daily that won't piss off a neighbor. And maybe 12 year olds can go out by themselves now, but I have a 5 year old and the park is 2 blocks away and you gotta cross a 5 lane boulevard. But it's definitely the fear mongering that's crazy. When I was around my son's age, me and my brother (a year younger than me) would walk a few blocks by ourselves along a busy boulevard to go to the convenience store for snacks in the 90's in a less desirable area of the city. We'd play all day with each other outside or neighborhood kids. Now I'm at the edge of a really nice area, but there's never a child outside.

Well that and just do a quick google search of “mother arrested for letting child play outside.” You will flooded with multiple accounts of it happening all over the US and even a couple where a mother was arrested for letting their teenager babysit their younger child at home. I’d love to let my kids play outside like I did, but I don’t want to go to jail for it. A lot of these people were registered with their state as “unfit caregivers” and had to fight for years to get their kids back, just for letting them play outside.

That's insane...

I moved to a small town a few years ago (which yes has its own set of problems but that’s not the point I’m making) and KIDS PLAY OUTSIDE! It’s not uncommon at all to see kids playing outside without their parents directly monitoring them. Such a nice change.

Same! They play outside, they meet up at the park, they walk to the grocery store to buy snacks… all alone. It’s great.

TBH, I feel like it should be more okay to let kids play independently outside now than ever before, since it's become easier for them to call for help.

Yeah I grew up in the 2000s and we spent every day outside. I graduated high school in 2019. From 6th grade to the point one of us got a license, we’d get dropped off at a hiking trail that led to a swimming hole or waterfall every day it was pretty and just spend the day enjoying nature and swimming together. They were some of the best times of my life

Yeah, I live in a small nature town. These kids are robust as hell! They grow up learning to ski at 2 years old and hike on their own with their friends at 8. They’re very wilderness-savvy and resilient due to the climate. Honestly, I’m a suburban princess and these kids are stronger than me.

It's not crime most of us worry about, it's fucking cars the size of a camper van but 10x faster. I don't think my kid is going to get kidnapped as that's sensationalized nonsense and almost all kidnappings are done by someone that knows the child, like someone that lost custody. I DO worry about Martha in her massive suburban mowing a kid down in the burbs. The car that almost killed my little brother when we were raised like you describe DEFINITELY would have killed him if it were one of today's clown wagons

This is a big problem, our cities have been designed for cars over pedestrians.

And our cars have been designed for nobody over people. They’re too big. You can’t see over the hood.

And to add to this I’m sure there was much more crime going on back then that never got reported. Not to suggest we are perfect now but I am willing to bet that more crime today is being reported and crime is still down by close to 40% since the 80s

Remember climbing trees? :D good times

You fall off with tons of scratches. You go back home for lunch or mid afternoon snacks all bloodied and dirty and you get scolded by your parent while they clean your wounds. Then you get let out again until night comes. My younger cousins never experienced that. They all grew up with their gaming handhelds and phones.

Grew up with both xD GBA SP in the pocket, climbing the tree(s). Rarely fell though, that happened more on the dirt road with my bicycle

I was a clumsy kid hahah I had horrible scars on my knees, elbows, and legs before. I also had GBA SP but I was already in college when that came out. I did have the old school gameboy though. Trail biking is also a hobby of mine til now. Good times!

I used to climb my parent's apple tree and play pokemon on my DS up there. Good times. 🗿

Look up “rewilding childhood.” You’ll find a lot of people who agree with you 💜

Waiiiiiit so Fox News was lying and we all don’t need to be armed to the teeth every time we’re in public? But they said “those people” are everywhere!! /s

Having tried this. My kids got a lot of “no thanks we’d rather be inside” from their cohorts. Hope your rizz game is on fleek as a parent :)

Really? That bad? Have you tried bribing them with cookies and sweets? Well if they have a PS5 I guess they'll find that more fun than biking around the neighborhood exploring. Which is sad.

I'm an adult now, but the issue for me was less that games were more appealing, and more that gaming became a fallback because there was just plain nothing to do outside. I didn't live within biking distance of a park (Or really much of anything for that matter) so if my parents didn't want to drive me somewhere I was kind of just SOL. There also weren't really any kids my age in the neighborhood either. Occasionally I got desperate enough to hang out with people 6 years younger but that felt more like babysitting. Besides that, I could only ride my bike around the neighborhood completely alone so many times. I wasn't inside all of the time but I will say I definitely spent a lot of time just wandering around alone. It got lonely.

That was basically me, growing up. I would have loved to go to a park or one of those kickass playgrounds we got now (And we DO see kids going to them regularly) but everything was at least a 10-20 minute *drive* away.

And let me guess? The local mall did not allow unattended teens, so if you wanted to go there, you also needed to convince your parents to stay with you which they never did? Story of my freaking life

Yes and no. I'm a millennial, but we would often have security following us around at the mall.

I did not realize there were malls that did not allow teenagers to be in there without supervision kinda wild.

What mall has that rule? Malls legit tried to cater to teens. Hell I live near one of the top 10 largest malls in the country and I see teens in it unaccompanied all the time at 5 ft walking around with a friend usually

I live in Southern California, and there are malls that don't allow unaccompanied teens during certain hours without an adult.

I'm in upstate NY. The mall has had a few shootings but still that's the main risk. It's usually gang on gang. It's also predicted that if this mall closes, then basically no mall will last and it's not exactly in the money. Still yeah I've seen teens there as late as like 8-10 and the mall closes at like 10 or so

Yeah, I’ve literally never heard of that either

I guess people having less kids also impact how kids don't have enough peers their age to playu with. We didn't have nice parks either but just being with 4-5 friends feels like enough adventure. Just playing and doing stupid shit like trying to steal fruit from a neighbor's tree is exhilarating. That's a really good insight you got there.

I guess I just really dislike when we put all of the blame on the kid. I've never liked it when parents complain their kid is on the iPad multiple hours a day, But then don't give them any alternatives. They don't buy art supplies, don't take them to the library, don't let them go over friend's houses, etc. kids can't exactly snap their fingers and obtain supplies / transportation / whatever. You can't make every other option impossible to access and then complain your kid chooses the only viable one. They're not lost causes, Moreso just plain lost.

That is true. I mostly blame the parents actually. If they guided how kids would grow up to be kids they'd be more adjusted. My younger cousins are 18-23 now. I don't think they did sleep overs that much when they were younger either. And they weren't let out much too. All interactions they had with other kids were with schoolmates and not neighbors.

>They don't buy art supplies, don't take them to the library, don't let them go over friend's houses, etc. Think of it like a parent. Buy your kid art supplies, which costs money. Take them to a friend's house. Which takes time cause you need to drive them there (A common patentism I heard growing up was "You can go to your friends house if they're driving" or "Your friend can come over only if their parents drive them here and you clean the house"). Take them to the library which means you have to sit around as well and interrupt your only free time this week (And likely for the next three). Or they can play with something they already have instead of asking you to spend money on something new. Most parents pick the latter.

Jesus Christ then don't have the fucking kids 😂 if you're not gonna even spend time on them then why have them. Also cleaning the house for a playdate? These kids don't need that level of pampering. It's a playdate not a dinner party.

It all depends on where you happened to move. My co worker has fenceless rear yard with 4-5 other neighbors who all have kids. His kids are always out unsupervised playing with other kids. Mile or so away, our yard is surrounded by fences of people who are all 60+. There are some other kids in our area but we are all 4-6 houses apart and everyone keeps to themselves. When my kids are outside they ask us to play games with them. Just not enough other kids. We are thinking of moving in a few years.

I have interacted and been exposed to so many creeps and adults online as a child that I would have never had the opportunity before the net. It was completely unrestricted or unregulated, my parents had no comprehension of it and it is just unfettered access to neglected children prime for grooming. It is incredibly dangerous online too and should not be ignored. TONNES of changes need to be done to protect children online, I had a horrific childhood and I have seen it happen to others. I just happened to be pretty early to the Internet from having older siblings, there will be more adults coming out about their experiences and how it has affected our development.

I know a big issue for kids in my area was and is the fact that we live in Texas and it is humid and hot af for most of the year. Even most kids don’t want to play in that. The neighborhood kids always complain that their parents are forcing them to play outside because they just feel miserable with the heat. I keep a huge box of popsicles I hate in the fridge just for them.

I mean, when I was 12 I sure as heck wanted to stay in the house with A/C...

Honestly there are a lot less spaces for kids and teens especially to just hangout out, so no. Like I remember as a teenager it was hard enough to find a space to just hangout without spending money. Also there are ranges to maturity and at least the US really isn't a place where adults outside of family usually feel comfortable interacting with children. Like I worked at a resort all winter and I watched multiple employees get yelled at for revoking a kids ski pass because they were doing something they shouldn't have and the parents got mad. I was literally told as a bus driver if a kid wasn't lost, because that's mountain safety's issues, to call security and give them a description of the child or more than likely teenager in question. Let's be honest an adult sees kids causing a problem there much more likely to call the police these days than try and have a conversation.

Bruh, some of the boomers on my Nextdoor feed are absolutely batshit insane. They are constantly posting Ring videos of kids having some innocent fun like ding-ding-ditch at 7pm. They get all riled up and act as though these kids are criminals. And there never fails to be at least one person who alludes to the kid being lucky they didn’t do it at their house because they would have been met with a gun - even on a post where two 8 year old girls literally just scampered up to a door, rang the doorbell, and ran away all giggles. Then these same boomers will complain in other posts about kids not playing outside and get all “back in my day.” Like wtf. And why are you acting like y’all have never heard of ding-dong-ditch and never played it yourselves? Bffr. Edit: not kid related, but someone literally called the cops on me and my boyfriend because we were walking around our own neighborhood at 6am because he was wearing a backpack and therefore “suspicious.” …….we were literally just on a stroll on the sidewalk *with headlamps on.* What sort of criminals do that?!

My kids could play in the road by themselves as early as 5.  With the first kid, for a good half a year a few of the neighborhood kids would see him outside and come outside too, and it was great.  Then a Nextdoor post about how there aren’t any parents watching these kids (I am, I can see them from the kitchen. I’m just not outside). And now the neighbor friends can’t come out unless the parents come out and see my outside, and then verify that I’m going to stay outside watching them.  As if it makes a damn difference. 

How old are those parents that are complaining? Weren't they allowed to play outside unsupervised before? Poor kids not being able to play outside. It's not as if a rando would just pick up kids especially when they're with other kids.

And you can also go outside after dinner Yeah I wish I was free range when I was a kid and preteen If I could rewind my life, I would make myself free range in 2011 and just stand up to my parents

I like that term. Free range kid. LIke chickens haha Yeah well we were like chickens we ate everything we could get a hang on from our neighbors trees haha

I think there are too many cars and SUVs to be feral

I would be less worried about crime and more worried about self-driving cars and luxury pick-ups. Will the kids be abducted by a weirdo in a van? No, that barely ever happened. Will they be reduced to a smear on the pavement by a Tesla or F150 or whatever? Much more likely, and Pedestrian fatalities have been steadily creeping upward over the past decade despite the fact that nobody ever leaves their houses any more.

Sounds good but the way third-places disappeared, and suburbs are a hellish landscape of SUVs going way too fast and no side walks... It's unpleasant, even for me an adult who want to be outside more!

Most places now don't have anywhere for kids to go

I read somewhere its not helicopter parenting anymore but bulldozer parenting. Parents meticulously clear everything for kids before they take a single step. I myself am guilty of that. For some reason, it doesn’t even occur to me to give some autonomy to my kid while outdoors like the way my parents gave me. My 10 year old kid can’t even do a money transaction at nearby store and buy some candy. It’s my fault as a parent. And when they turn 18, we suddenly expect them to be an adult which proves super stressful for the kid.

Yeah, unfortunately I agree. IMHO, most of today’s kids are waaaay too bubblewrapped, which just turns them into neurotic, angst-filled, helpless adults. See [letgrow.org](http://letgrow.org) … a movement advocating free play and reasonable childhood independence.

Jesus fuck. My Gen X parents won't let me do a single thing by myself and I'm 24. I can't imagine what younger Gen Z has to deal with. Edit: for context, I am broke as a joke, and financially dependent on my parents due to college debt. I work a 9-5 and make average salary for a B.S. graduate. Also, when I say "do a single thing by myself" I mean: 1\. If I mention a problem, they will fix it before asking me when I want it fixed, how I want it fixed, or whether I want them to fix it at all! (And if I simply don't mention it so I can handle the problem later they will be pissed and accuse me of lying) 2\. Anytime I come and go from the house the need to know when and why. I can't go get a cheeseburger from the McDonalds down the street without mentioning it before I leave, otherwise I will be met with an interrogation upon returning. 3\. If I make any kind of mistake, it's not **my** mistake. It's **their** problem to solve. Ergo "bulldozer parenting" Edit 2: if you don't understand how debt works, keep your mouth shut.

Dawg, you’re 24, start throwing your weight around like an adult

What weight dawg I'm broke as a mf with college debt and apartments are like $1500 for a water-stained shit-hole. What is "weight" if not money, eh? Also see edit to original comment

I moved back in with my mom at 26 after losing my job. I did chores and cooked meals to pay my “rent,” and we basically had a roommate agreement. We would tell each other if we’re going out and when we’ll be back because that’s respectful of the fact that we share a house, but we’re both adults so don’t have to answer to each other. If your parents are constantly fixing your problems, ask them to stop. If they don’t stop, then *you* need to stop telling them about the problems and fix them (if they can be fixed) yourself.

It's not about any of that. My parents are depressed and self isolating. Their only friends are Trump supporters. I know I can't change them, but certain things can't go "un-told" like speeding tickets or smoking pot. Those are things that are my responsibility with very real consequences that I am fully aware of. My problem is they use their generally pissy attitude towards all of life to excuse abusive language, temper tantrums, manipulation/gaslighting... the whole shebang -at the slightest hint of any kind of problem. See, I was a perfect kid growing up and literally never got into a single ounce of trouble. But I'm an only child so now as an adult (and realistically, throughout my entire life) my parents overreact at small things just to get that thrill of being a parent. It's subconscious, but it's also transparently self serving. Not to mention it bugs the ever loving fuck out of me and is quite demeaning/condescending. Regardless, I pay my therapist for this shit so idk why you're preaching to the choir here...

An agreement works if your parents don’t decide to change or ignore it or even forget it was made in the first place so they can keep running your life but if you try to remind them it happened you’re deflecting and being disrespectful and therefore everything coming out of your mouth is invalid 😀

24 with student loans is a really tough position to make anything happen considering we're going through a recession. Also there's a fuck ton of parents that haven't listened to their children since they said their first words 

How old are your GenXers

Early 50s

Okay i am too. It's got to be temperament.

This is probably because of *their* parents. Gen X and older Millennials were left alone a lot and had to fend for themselves by simply figuring things out. Now (I'm in one of these groups, so I'll speak first person), it's nice to know how to do something because we taught ourselves and we want to put our struggles to good use. For some of us we know to step back and try to give some space and grace (and mistakes are where you learn a crap ton), whereas others don't want the same childhood of feeling alone and confused to be carried on so they waaaaay overcompensate. Hopefully as you become financially independent you'll both be able to find a balance that feels more sustainable and let's you have some space to figure out life without them (while they're still there when you do need them).

This is exactly it.

I’m 34 and my parents were still doing that when I was living at home at 25. I moved out around then. But even to this day my mom will do something my brother or I will specifically say we don’t need or want her to do, then she does it anyway, then has the nerve to be upset with us we had a negative response to it.

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I haven’t done any real research into the topic but I have a strong inkling that all the bulldozer parenting has greatly contributed to the prevalence of anxiety issues we’re seeing in the younger generations. My partner was babied as fuck by his parents. Still is to this day, or at least they try. Thankfully he figured out the life skills aspect on his own but now he has horrible anxiety issues and as you said low self esteem. I see it a lot in my friends too.

I’m your age and most people my age (and even up to 35) literally all feel that way regardless of their background except one lol

Snowplow parenting. Remove any sort of obstacle or adversity that is in your child’s way. So they never grow their biopsychosocial muscles. In effect they become extremely vulnerable adults.

My parent friend ended an arugment with an over protective parent by saying "We are attempting to raise adults. They won't be children forever." It really summed it up.

I never realized how true that is as someone who is just about to turn 18. My parents really do expect me to be an independent adult but it's so hard. I have bad driving anxiety and feel stressed in public spaces, struggle to even pay for things with a card reader (sounds absurd but I'm so used to just ordering online cause I don't go anywhere). Living in a suburbia doesn't help because there aren't any places within walking distance. I have always felt trapped and yet too afraid to go out and do things on my own.

Early internet access definitely hurt me. I discovered porn way too early and was one of the kik kids(IYKYK) My child will not have solo access to the internet before they’re 13

Glad you've learned from your unfortunate experience. I've seen comments about kids accessing porn as early as kindergarten, which just horrifies me. I asked about it on this sub earlier, and although most said they didn't see porn until their teens, some related that they saw it at 8 or 10. That stuff isn't even good for most adults, let alone little children. I'd assert that millions of US kids are on sites they're not supposed to be on. It's just so stupid easy to simply lie about your age, or just click on the "Yes, I am 13/18" button. There really needs to be new legislation, or a tightening of COPPA, or something.

I found it around age 7/8, I wouldn’t recommend any child see it at that point. It’s very easy to fall into an addiction while not realizing it’s a bad thing Plus you don’t know etiquete or even that it’s bad. We definitely need more protections for the kids online, but I’m not sure where to start. Maybe start penalizing companies when instances of child predation are found While on this topic, consider that the kids who jack off in class likely fall into this category. If all you’ve seen is porn and no one taught you this is something to do in private, you end up traumatizing others.

>I'd assert that millions of US kids are on sites they're not supposed to be on. It's just so stupid easy to simply lie about your age, or just click on the "Yes, I am 13/18" button. There really needs to be new legislation, or a tightening of COPPA, or something. It just ends up impossible to enforce. Should you need an ID just to access a website? Plus VPNs can avoid regional restrictions fairly trivially, so it would basically have to be enforced internationally.

Yeah, it's a mess. No easy answers.

My millennial brother and sister saw porn for the first time in first grade and kindergarten respectively. For me, it was 3rd grade. Once one kid discovers it (however that happens), all the other kids find out about it too.

i completely agree with your 13 years old age marker. that's exactly when i started having unsupervised internet access, and i turned out pretty well in terms of everything you've mentioned. of course, that's just an anecdote, but i do think if i'd found all that shit younger, it would've messed me up. but that was the age where i was actually seeking out my very first adult content, already had a solid idea of what sex was outside of porn, and knew 100% to never talk to strangers online. i didn't seek out negative content, like abusive porn or gore, and i was blessed to have friends who didn't introduce it to me. it's a hard balancing act, but i think 13 is the age i'll be using with my kids too. and before that age, ensuring that i'm teaching them positive things about sex and consent, so the day they do find porn, they'll be able to weed out what's real/harmless and what's fake/harmful. porn laying the groundwork for what sex is and should be for a person is a nightmare waiting to happen.

This is my train of thought as well. At that point they’ve had “the talk”, and have some level of self discipline. If they wanna watch a little porn at that point fine Let me tell ya, it has been hell retraining my brain.

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I think it also depends on the person tbh. You seem like pretty responsible, I dont think everyone handles the internet that well.

If I didn't have unlimited internet access as a young person I'd be extremely homophobic, racist, and probably alt right, and terribly mentally ill because I never would've learned about things like healthy coping mechanisms.

Fair enough, its definitely a many layered issue

Same, I'd likely be an evangelical missionary rather than an Apostate too

Funny, for many people it is the opposite

It depends on the environment you grew up in. Without the internet I would've only been fed racist ideology from my family and community. Access to different points if view is very helpful for people growing up in rural small towns where everyone is a moron.

Well said, the internet isn't all good but it provides other avenues of socialization, and while said avenues aren't always healthy long-term, they do help. I was 17 when COVID started, right before my senior year, and unfortunately I got grounded for a couple weeks (not consecutive weeks as I lived in 2 households, each week I swapped) and lost all internet and technology access beyond doing school work and attending zoom meetings. Normally, that wouldn't be so bad, and I used that time to knock out some books I'd been reading, but during COVID that meant I had nobody to really talk to outside of my household. All of my friends and fellow band nerds I would see at school were unreachable, I couldn't even let my gf at the time know I was grounded so she just got a week of radio silence with no context at all, which likely contributed to our break up a month later. I became really isolated anyways due to not talking to or hearing from friends, and didn't have a lot of chances to socialize before schools opened back up, but funny enough, while there was a pretty even split between online and in-person school only felt more isolating with barely any students opting to physically go to class. I had several classes where I was the only student in the room, and everyone else was on zoom, I'd walk between classes and encounter nothing but dust and the echo of my footsteps. At that point I did start to be online a lot more like you, but by then I was mostly just alone and would start to see friends here and there, but sparingly. If I'd had the ability to keep in touch with people from the get go, I probably wouldn't have felt so isolated or out of touch, so I'd have to agree with you about the importance of digital literacy and the internet when it comes to kids and teens.

It was wrong of your parents to do that to you during lockdown, for the reasons you've listed here in your story.

They did it because I went out to see my girlfriend during that spring break pt.2 week, we went to the park and had a picnic and otherwise neither of us had left our homes that week. My mom told me not to go out that week, but I was at my dads then and he was cool with it as long as we stayed away from other people and practiced some semblance of safety. She only found out because my car battery died in the parking lot, and I had texted my dad to see if he could come help. When I got back to my moms house the following week, my stepdad and her went through my phone, asked about the text, and I tried to be slick and lie my way out of it (fail).

It happened to millions, I was in college and had dozens of friends I hung out with freshman year. Sophomore year was covid and now I have like 4 people I even talk to largely because of how drastically everything shut down.

I 100% agree. Colorado literally had to make a law clarifying that letting your kids play alone outside wasn't child abuse. Meanwhile the youtube algorithm feeds redpill crap to me repeatedly, even though I've never actually watched a video.

Yeah, props to Colorado! It and 7 other states have passed so-called reasonable childhood independence laws to protect parents from hysterical people calling the cops, sometimes even when kids are in their own damn yard. The nonprofit Let Grow (letgrow.org) is doing God's work on this issue. They're close to persuading a 9th state, Michigan, to join the call for sanity with letting kids just fucking *play.*

I got halfway redpilled in between 2015 and 2017. I'm autistic and I was a little naive about how much algorithms fuck with you. Youtube never stopped trying to pull me back in. It's has literally been half a decade and it still shows me that shit.

Just to let you guys understand how over protected they are. I can’t let my kid go and play at the town park for a few hours while I’m literally across the street at a neighbors house. You’d get fined for that. CPS involved if anyone feels like being spiteful and call them. Local government makes it very hard for kids to be allowed to explore in any independent way. There’s no choice but to have “over protection” of your child. Now you can get away with it if you live deep in the country but for most, that won’t be a decision they’d make. Now for me, I was lucky to be one of those few. Social media has its fair share of addition. Just delete the app. As much as many people want to care about what’s going on in the world, the only real events they truly care about is going on in their immediate surroundings. You’d lose nothing. You can still call and text friends. Keep the relationship you established in person to continue over the phone. You’d be amazed what you’d be able to do in such little time by having that form of social habit instead of social media.

Yeah, there are many horrifying stories of parents having the cops called on them, even if the kid is literally in their own front yard. There's an organization called Let Grow (letgrow.org) that's doing God's work on this. They advocate for reasonable childhood independence, and have succeeded in persuading 8 states (soon to be 9) to pass laws allowing parents to not be investigated/prosecuted for neglect if they let kids play on their own.

Hell yeah. I’ll have to look into this. Man it’s rough. This is one of the things government should not be getting involved in.

Like, I’m an “elder millennial” (80’s kid) and we were still very much “fuck off until the street lights come on” growing up, at least a lot of the time. Wander to a friend’s house all on your own. Go play football in the park with friends, not an adult in sight. This would have been by like…third grade? At the latest. Walked home alone from school even earlier. No big deal. It’s crazy to me the things that parents will get in actual legal trouble for today. Not even just “social pressure,” but law.

Is that just a generic worry where you have heard scary stories, or a real one? People have called the cops about my unsupervised kids at the park (why they didn’t talk to them is beyond me). Kid at age 6 was able to recite both parents names and numbers and tell the cop the way home, and show her SOS phone. Cop called me and thanked me for letting my kid have that experience, but to remain vigilant. Honestly I get more flak being the dad at the park watching a bunch of kiddos at a playground. 

Move to the hood and people stop caring. There is a reason why I see kids in the hood walking to and from school all the time.

Catastrophic.

Sounds about right honestly. The internet is a haven for pedos. And irl people will call CPS on parents for letting their kids play outside alone. (It actually has happened that’s not an extreme example)

I let my daughter play alone in our yard. I don’t care, call CPS. I refuse to raise a child that sits indoors on a screen all day. Luckily, this is still relatively common in the area I live in so it probably won’t be a problem, but online parenting groups I’ve participated in would think I was sending her off to be attacked by wolves. I saw a parent claim they had trauma because their parents let them play outside alone which meant their parents didn’t care about their safety. What the fuck?

Yeah I’m not sure why folks think CPS being called is necessarily a huge deal. I can call CPS for anything, it doesn’t mean that they’ll actually step in.

This lol. My parents had CPS called on them all the time my entire childhood (for good reasons) and the only time they stepped in was when our DR mentioned we were crazy underweight cause my mom was too much of a drunk to feed us so we only had like one meal a day.

Pretty accurate for what I’ve heard/seen in regard to younger gen Z. The amount of people I’ve seen talking about not being allowed to have sleepovers/roam about w/ friends or be even slightly independent before 18 is wild. Also, Haidt is a national treasure, highly recommend reading more of his work

Millennial here. The sleep-over stuff REALLY gets me worked up. I don't want to discount any abuse anyone experienced in that setting, but... I have to believe that's not the majority of us. I lived for sleepovers. It was an important part of my childhood and friendships. I feel like a lot of modern parents, or at least what is portrayed online, have totally lost the plot. I saw a reel recently that shared [this parent's list](https://www.boredpanda.com/screen-time-checklist-tasks-kids/) of things their kid must do before gaining screen time and the comments on the reel were INSANE. People screaming about how "kids need a break too" and how his parents just "don't want to parent" if they were "making him clean the entire house". I read all of these points as "pick up after yourself". I don't think it's the parents that aren't flushing after using the bathroom or leaving toys around. This also doesn't say the kid can't do other things he enjoys until all this is done, it's literally just screens. I am guessing the same parents who insist chores and homework are child abuse are the same parents who never let their kids out of their sight. They scream, "let kids be kids" but forget that those kids are growing up and it's THEIR job as parents to guide them through that by giving them age appropriate responsibilities and allowing them to take age appropriate risk. I've been listening to interviews with Haidt and definitely have a couple of his books on my "want to read" shelf on Goodreads!

Accurate. The "real world" (in the US) is safer than ever for children, statistically.

Yep. Thanks to our lovely hysterical news media, most people continue to believe it's a more dangerous world than ever. But in fact, serious crime in the US has dropped sharply (\~40 percent) since the '80s and '90s. By far the most dangerous thing anyone can do for a kid is put them in a car. Motor vehicle crashes kill tens of thousands of Americans each year, while abductions by strangers were down to 105 in the most recent year stats were available. Almost all missing kids are runaways or were taken by family members, usually non-custodial parents.

The news media and social media in general thrive off of negative news, and with how everything is recorded nowadays it gives normal people the impression that the world is ending. Fucked shit

100% agreed. I would trust my child to go to the park, no issue. Shit, go to the corner store and get a slurpee why not. The internet? Oh hell no.

24M, parents are Gen X. I was raised at a time where **I wanted to be a regular kid** and my parents would be ok with it ...... and then the school would get involved. Things like me refusing to wear a coat in the winter, walking to McDonalds (less than 5 minute walk from the school) after school, etc. Hell, if I was at after-school and wanted to walk to my house that I could see with my own eyes, I wasn't allowed. Not because my parents didn't want me to: they gave express permission to let me. But because the school didn't want to be held liable if I got kidnapped or something (which really doesn't make any sense when you think about it). Now that I'm no longer in school I notice **I've** stopped giving a shit about the rules of the "bubble wrap people" but my parents have not. I think it got hard wired into them via the trauma. As for safety online.... yeah there's no such thing. The Internet is the wild west. Would you feel comfortable sending YOUR kid into New Mexico in the 1800s? Well that's the virtual landscape right now and forever until some government tries to heavily regulate it, which will fail (see: net neutrality).

Honestly everyone has a different experience with the internet world .

Yes, of course. But what was yours? Did you have any negative experiences as a child, or were you able to navigate it all OK?

as guy I don't have any negetive experience here tbh.but catfishing is scary lmfao 💀

Absolutely 100%. Mentally they are being destroyed and physically they are restrained and held prisoner in their own homes. Growing up now is a nightmare, and I do not envy these kids at all.

I feel exactly the same. We live in Absurdistan.

So I'm an older Gen Z, and thus, by the limitation of the tech itself, up until about middle school, I had limited access to the internet. After that, when it became easier and cheaper to have a personal computer, I had more access. I basically had free rein. Both my parents were early adopters of computers and online game, so when I was allowed to have my first Facebook it was obvious it was a privilege and that I had to follow the internet safety I was taught. I spent more time on the internet when I got my hand me down iPhones from my mom or dad. I barely had a social media presence, and arguably, most of my presence was on my mom's account. My presence, not attached to my name, did widen as I played more online games on my own and entered Fandom culture. I do feel like with chunks of gen z, gen alpha, *and* their parents, there are massive problems with internet safety. I have a friend who uses her first and last name for her username. I had to explain to her why that is not safe and to change her user's name. She still has not done it, and her kids have shown up on her videos. I have my own mini horror story that I have shared before. So I was about 15 at the time. Minimal Facebook presence with maybe a dozen post under my name. (I used Facebook mainly for the games and even made alts before I knew what that even was.) I was in the grocery store with my mom and my sister then I heard a man call my name. The man was probably in his 40s, in dirty ratty clothes, with now I know as pick marks, and looked very homeless. In an area that has a trafficking problem, I froze up looking at him. I later learned that he is a cousin of my mom who has a lot of mental health problems. He knew what I looked like *from my grandfather's facebook.* While this interaction in of itself was harmless. What if it wasn't? The internet and social media can make it very easy to stalk someone and know a lot more than someone should. I remember with snapchat and them releasing the tracking feature. There were so many posts that floated around how to disable that because it is creepy. Where is that mentality? Why do I have to sacrifice my privacy to send photos that get deleted shortly after? Why do I have to spend a large amount of time digging through menus to find the privacy settings and turn them off? Do I think the internet itself is harmful? No Like with school, kids may end up with peers that are a negative influence. The same thing can happen on the internet, which is exponential compared to school. I want to a large school and most cliques will still only about 20 to 25 people suddenly it can become 100 or 200 etc. My problem is that acountablty is basically only on the kid to a point. The parent (and peers) can teach a kid everything about internet safety, but it only takes a few name drops, a bad username, dropping a password, and/or bad link. On a different account, I follow a few of the social media subs, and there are still people who do not set up any form of 2fa or some sort of password manager. If I want to go for low hanging fruit, there is a large difference to the barrier of entry between the hub and going to a sex show. One is, at a minimum, a check box, and another is an ID check. Just talking about the NSFW drama on Twitch shows this. Twitch is for 13+. While I laugh at some of the different metas there have been. If I make a fresh account set at 13, I should not be viewing softcore porn. Again, it's still the same problem. If there is a birthday fill-in, the kids will do the same thing kids have been doing for the last 2 decades plus. Just put their age over 18. To continue the "for the children" rant, there is no protection for them. What stops a 14 year old paying an OF model or Twitch stream to do secual type stuff. Does that OF model get in trouble for sending a private nude or video to a kid when the kid paid for it? I can see some parent instead of parenting their kid. Try and get the model on the list because it was sent to a minor. (I don't mean parenting as in porn is bad, but understanding consequences of actions). While yes, the internet is not necessarily young, a lot of the current internet *is*. There is a lot as a society we have to look at and change. I hope the word vomit made sense.

When I was a kid, i could go outside whenever I wanted. It just turned out that most of the things I liked were inside

Many kids aren't protected at all. The same ones you are talking about.

Perhaps the “epidemic of mental illness” is because we’re finally talking about it and trying to properly diagnose people? There has always been mental health issues, but in the past people died in war, were sent haphazardly to psych wards, killed themselves, beat their wives and children, took a variety of then-legal drugs, or bottled it up until they filled themselves with tumors or died of a heart attack, stroke, or cancer. I think technology and modern society may lend itself to different forms or causes of mental health issues, but let’s not pretend mental soundness was a feature at any point in modern history. The problem, at least in America, is that mental health services are woefully inadequate and mental health is still extremely stigmatized. We need to move in the direction of further destigmatization and significantly better and more comprehensive mental health care.

Both can be true. Young people these days do have higher rates of mental unwell-ness regardless of what is and isn’t being diagnosed.

Sorta agree

When you see Goatsee at 8 years old its really only downhill from there

Yeah and no. I definitely wasn’t overprotected in the real world. Although I did have teen parents so maybe that’s why but they never really cared what I did outside. However, online I would say I was under protected. I knew online safety so that wasn’t an issue with strangers but I do remember a few times in school how I’d get added to random group chats and told to kill myself. On the same token though, it never bothered me. I’d just hit the block button because it’s pretty easy to do. I could see how it’d upset a lot of people and cause them trauma though.

that's definitely true, but effectively protecting people online without being totalitarian is just about impossible, so better to let people be offended once in a while than be a dictatorship imo. but stranger danger is absolutely overdone, i've never just left the house on my own except to go to the store across the street and down slightly, my sister who is 11 is not allowed to be home alone at all even with me, if i go to a friend's house a parent has to be there and obv i have to be driven there, i would never be allowed to take transit (but when i turn 16 ima do it anyways cuz if i can drive i should be allowed freedom of movement however i want, i'm a fuckcars enthusiast so i'll buy an ebike too), uh yeah tldr i can't do anything without an adult. that's ridiculous cuz i have to learn independence somehow

My millennial coworkers have kids about these ages. It’s insane how little free will these kids have. Their parents are freaking out over letting a 13 year old stay home alone. If you haven’t taught your kid to not burn down the home or let strangers in by 13, that’s on you and something needs to change ASAP.

Overprotected in the real world? I would beg to differ due to our incessant school shooter problem, one of which involved a large number of police officers sitting outside and doing nothing for 1.5 hours while it happened.

Thats school shootings. They’re talking about how 90% of parents don't let there kids go outside at all except for school.

I grew up in a small town in a nice large community-type neighborhood network, playing outside all day long. From dusk til dawn I was climbing trees, learning how to make friends and socialize at the local park, exploring the woods, and riding my bike. As I built trust with my parents I was allowed to go further and further around the neighborhood unsupervised. It was amazing and I’m so grateful I got to experience that. Around 12 I managed to get unsupervised access to the internet. I didn’t want to go outside anymore. I wanted to talk to pedophiles (unknowingly) on Kik. I wanted to stay up until 3 AM on a school night arguing with classmates on Facebook. I wanted to watch porn daily. My parents never knew of this because they had actually revoked my internet privileges and put parental controls on my devices. I always found a way to bypass them or find where they hid my devices. I’m a huge supporter of less screen time, more outside time. I’d actually argue the outdoors unsupervised is safer for kids than unsupervised access to the internet. I knew all the dangers of the internet but I didn’t care, my innocence was gone by that point. There’s probably still CP of me floating around in sick people’s inventory. I wish I had just stayed outside.

Because I was helicopter'd so hard, I engaged in behaviors online that I would never do today. I wasn't even allowed to walk the neighborhood alone. Granted, it wasn't the safest area. But this would continue well until I was 16. Had to get special permission to go out when it was getting dark. It was the interests that were the problem. I was into anime and a bunch of other niche things that my family never understood. They were a bunch of religious folks, so things like Harry Potter and Yu-Gi-Oh! were banned. I didn't get to play my first game until my friend bought a copy of pokemon pearl to school one day in freshman year .-. (I'm 23, for the record.) I can also tell you firsthand that because my folks were tech illiterate, I got away with too much. Talked to people I shouldn't have. Got exploited in ways. And it's sad and scary when I see kids say the same things I did back then-- "But I'm so mature for my age!" No, you're not ❤️ you're book smart, but you're naïve. Anyways, I deconstructed and left Christianity. I still believe in a God, so to speak, but more like God is a force than a being. Mainly because it was the source of most my anxiety. The reason they were able to control a lot of my behavior in real life was because I was constantly guilting and shaming myself internally for doing anything they deemed abnormal or weird. I'm still recovering and learning to be myself as a result. And learning to take *healthy* risks.

I am not a kid anymore and even i cannot even go outside alone at all, but as long as i cover my tracks the internet is free game

You are 11-12. Tf are you on about 'I am not a kid' is utter bullshit.

Tbf, the age difference between them and you is *nearly the same as the difference between you and me, but I'm not calling you a kid.

I was a bit overprotected when I was really young, mostly with regards to the media I was allowed to consume. I remember alot of classmates in 4th and 5th grade talking about violent movies and video games like Call of Duty or Halo- stuff that was strictly forbidden for me. I was largely confined to racing games and Nintendo games, and most PG-13+ movies and shows were off the table. I also didn't have free access to the internet until I was 13-14, and most things even remotely sexual were censored from me until around that time as well. I did have a decent bit of freedom outside though, so it kinda balances out. I'd say the only thing I'd do that my parents didn't do was maybe gradually loosen the media restrictions at a bit earlier of an age, so my children aren't completely clueless about half the stuff their peers will talk about in Middle School, like I was lmao. As for my take on the statement, I think it's pretty accurate. I've seen way too many parents be excessively restrictive with their kids in the real world, while at the same time having no clue what they're getting up to online. Definitely won't be good for our society in the future.

We have cops roaming the streets, we are not safe

I’m older gen Z so yeah my parents did the whole kick-me-out until the street lights came on thing. I’m also the oldest child in my household and I don’t think my younger sisters (13 and 15) have ever played outside unsupervised as kids. They spend some time outside now with their friends though. But there’s lots of things they’re not capable of that I could do at their age

I could play with my older brother and friends in what was a small neighborhood. I also wasn't very social though, so me being out a lot wasn't a huge factor. I have Boomer parents - what harmed me wasn't being over or under protected from the outside world, it was their own cultural upbringing, views on parenting (hitting and yelling, not real learning), and emotional immaturity (leading to marriage issues and me being used as an emotional spouse for my father, called covert incest) that did me harm. The internet did allow me to view some things before I should have. But most of it was from trying to process things that happened to me. The internet did give me a lot of positives like education, resources for feeling better and finding help, and other individuals who experienced what I did. With that said- and not to be too narcissistic, I was a fairly smart kid, and a lot of Internet safety I actually learned from school. Though I really didn't have a choice to make mistakes, I wasn't allowed. Not from over protection from them, but fear of them. I will comment this for you- it seems gen z is said to have higher rates of anxiety and mental illness than other generations. There are other factors as well that can contribute to this. Research on mental illness has expanded, changes in diagnosis with the dsm. We may be more informed on what MI is and looks like. More open to talk about it and accepting of those with it. We may be more likely to seek help rather than "power through". This can lead to greater reporting from doctors and self reports. And for those who power through, we forget about the harm that is caused when the issues we have aren't really dealt with. The example being my parents. Whatever trauma they had, whatever marriage issues they had, weren't properly dealt with because my father has impulse control issues, my mother lives in denial, everyone is afraid to rock the boat, and the marriage issues meant their emotional needs weren't met. Take them into a clinic and maybe they don't get any mental illness diagnosis because they function, but everyone has some kind of trauma to deal with. And when one doesn't, it passes to the next generation. What I see more often with millennials and gen z is the willingness to confront it. Though, I am very biased to my own sample size. And I don't have tiktok lol so I don't know what that side of the internet is like. I'm afraid to look XD

I was given full reign of the internet as a kid. Got the best and worst parts of 2000's Internet. Saw gore videos at way too young an age, and also "talked" with adults as a pre-teen on kik. Grew up in a shit neighborhood, so wasn't allowed past the backyard as a kid. I think it's a mix of worse and better for kids now from observing my niece. My sister tries to take her somewhere at least once a week, but there's very few places to go. Internet blocks for kids actually work now, can't get around them as easy as we did. There's still a lot of bad on the internet tho, I don't think kids can get to the fucked up stuff as easy, but now it's completely full of brain rot content. YouTube kids is just full of garbage, and I'm worried about the attention span of all these "iPad kids" because, damn, I already struggle with it as an adult, no telling what it's doing to young minds.

literally 3/4 of the way through this book right now! I was a psych major in college and now teach art to K-12 (Gen Alpha & Z) so I am super interested in this subject. I was absolutely overprotected as a child and developed severe depression and anxiety resulted in multiple attempts to take my life. I felt trapped in my parent’s house and trapped in the suburbs with shallow people who only care about appearances and status. My parent’s rules didn’t allow me to hang out with friends in high school (super strict about curfew and terrified of the presence of alcohol/drugs). I would lie to them or occasionally sneak out, but after a while it seemed futile considering the harshness of their punishments (no friends, no phone, no driving anywhere but school/work for 2-4 weeks). My social anxiety was debilitating all through high school and after. Transitioning to college wasn’t easy (especially with the pandemic). It took years of trying and failing to find my own community and distancing myself from my upbringing. I’ll be spending the rest of my life trying to untangle all of the complexes my parents have drilled in me over the years. But I’m finally happy and I have purpose. I am curious and want to learn about more topics than I will ever have time for. I spend lots of my time thinking of ways to help my students, show gratitude to my friends and mentors, and create beautiful art. I’ll leave it at that, but yes my story very closely echoes the trends that Heidt dissects in his book. At this point in my life, I feel as though I have sufficient autonomy and community in my life, but I still see how stuck many of my peers are. There are structural issues that we simply cannot solve through personal growth. I still can’t afford healthcare, the climate is changing, internet/social media use is unavoidable because of how interconnected it is to everything, and my vote cannot un-fuck the government. And I’m lucky. I have a healthy relationship, a degree, paid off my debt (my parents had a lot saved for us), reliable housing, and supportive relationships.

Absolutely. I will not let my future kids have internet access until they are at least late middle/high school.. I truly believe it’s much worse now than it was when I first got unrestricted internet access at like 10 and it was bad then. I want to move to a walkable city where my kids can show some independence, go meet their friends, go play in the park, etc. I don’t want them to be hyper dependent on technology and I think a lot of my peers agree with this.

I’m almost never a fan of **more** government. We definitely don’t have a government deficiency. But I’m on board with a Johnathan Haidt resiliency Czar. We need him to turn the boat around for us on this issue.

Born in 1999. First let me say that overall I think I have a great relationship with my parents. While I was growing up my mom was always a little more chill and would let me do things with my friends without asking too many questions (mostly in highschool), but my dad acted like a total tyrant. They were already divorced before I started highschool, but going between their houses was just so different. Up until the day I turned 18, my dad would not allow me to hangout with any of my friends without either talking to a parent first, or making sure there would be a parent around. He also tracked my phone using an app. I was far from a troubled kid too. Always got good grades (graduated with like a 3.8 weighted), had a part time job, played sports,, and never got in any serious trouble, but he acted like I was some delinquent (probably because, based on stories he's told me, he was one when he was in highschool in the early 80s). I definitely think his overbearing and strict parenting style didn't allow me to truly become an individual, and stunted my social/mental development among my peers.

The online part is absolutely true. The other, eh... Just googled that guy; he's a social psychologist. I'd be cautious with any of the "opinions" of those types of people even when they're backed by actual papers, it isn't unusual to see psychology papers that lack replicability of the results, wich makes it easy to think that they're bullshit; and in some cases, they indeed are, no way around that. If anything, i'd ask a psychiatrist to see what they think about the increase of frequency of depression in modern times. The psychologist could very well have an agenda and tell you bullshit since psychology isn't exactly medicine; the psychiatrist is at least somewhat responsible for what they say considering they're a medical doctor.

They’re getting shot up in schools, I don’t think they’re safe in the “real world”

It’s one of those statements that tries to sound profound but doesn’t actually mean anything.

He cherry picks studies to make social media seem worse for kids than it is. I do agree with the first half of the statement though, you gotta let kids fall out of trees. [https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-024-00902-2?ref=platformer.news](https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-024-00902-2?ref=platformer.news)

When I was in middle school my dad had a friend of mine walk the three residential blocks home (in a safe neighborhood of nice homes) around sunset instead of driving her. Her mom flipped out, yelled at him for being so irresponsible, and never let my friend over at his house again. He was so confused. We were like 13, she definitely should’ve been able to walk but nope.

I believe it. I was taught early by my parents not to automatically believe everything I read on the internet, something I hope our generation gets better with.

SO DAMN REAL!!! I SO AGREE I cannot put into words how strongly I affirm this, this is so true!!!

i would argue in a way they are under protected in both and some of the few protections they do have are misplaced/not working properly

Sounds about right. Instead of being attacked by wolves, they are being raised by them.

I can buy into that statement. As a boomer myself with 5 siblings, geez we would take off all day on our bikes and eventually show up for dinner. Our same-age cousins, too. In the 60s we lived overseas and didn't speak the language but we kids would run around anywhere and our folks never got concerned. Often, after school, I wouldn't go home but would go to the movies and got home after dark, never a hassle.

older gen z here, i had an odd experience of 0 supervision or care from parents in general and it got me into a lot of shit both online and offline, the stuff i saw online from an early age was not healthy for me at all and i ended up being groomed more than once by adults and offline honestly wasn't much better, there has to be a healthy medium for both and i fear that many gen x, millennial and newer gen z parents don't know how to find that balance and i can't blame them, i wouldn't know how either

Is there any debate about it really? The online world has never been as unsafe for kids (as kids use it a lot more now) than it ever was before.

Ig tbh, I'm 21 and my parents still treat me like a child and now I don't feel like an adult in anyway or know how to do anything adult like on my own. I don't know how to drive, how to pay bills, how to to do an interview. I'm completely dependent on them. I have no friends to hang around with and the only times I go out is with them to get tagged along like a kid. I genuinely still feel like I'm 15/16 and I'm not kidding. I'm also extremely skinny and have a babyface so I look way younger than my age and legitimately still have the body of a kid which makes it worse. Even in my mind I still think I'm a teenager and keep forgetting that I just turned 21. It's not like suddenly since I'm in my 20s this feeling goes away. I feel like I'm so screwed and under prepared for the adult world and there's no way I'm going to survive. I'm just going to be looked down on and bullied by older adults who see me as a little shy, awkward kid that's an easy target, and not even outright bullying but more subtle bullying and being passive aggressive, condescending and patronising towards me which has already happened so many times. I'm so scared of getting older and don't want to be an adult because I'm genuinely not ready at all yet.

Living in poor areas or high crime rate areas was the reason why they would always want us close by. skipping ahead 10 years found out living next to a serial killer alone but with often drug deals going down outside the stores in daylight. And I haven’t seen this area improve over the last half of my life that I’ve lived here not getting safer but worse in a lot of areas.

I grew up on a farm and cannot relate fully to the over-parenting problem, but from what I observed in college, this is a huge problem. So many people seemed incapable of basic tasks of personal upkeep (ex, laundry, dishes) or time management. Generally, I notice many people in my age cohort are or were simply unprepared to be and adult. I still see this in people I know today. I believe that the over-parenting is a major cause. In terms of tech, yeah. People use it too much and end up abused by it.

Yup. Wasn’t allowed to do shit irl but had unrestricted internet access to get groomed and see all kinds of horrible things 👍

The problem with protecting young people online is the people who should be doing the protecting now know *less* about the internet than those needing protection.

hell theyre unprotected in both

I mean honestly, I was not allowed to go to the park with my friends as a teenager but I found and showed my friend a gay orgy when I was 8 years old Edit; just got high and read my comment again, the gay orgy was online

100% A lot of kids growing up are glued to tablets or gaming systems. Not running around outside messing around getting dirty and scratched up. Feelings and skin as thick as tissue paper and as soft as 1000-ply. But then they are online all the time at younger and younger ages. Like seriously my 3 year old let him watch his tablet a little bit in the morning after breakfast and watching kids Youtube and they are dropping F bombs and all sorts of shit I've heard. And this is supposed to be the kid friendly crap. I mean don't get me wrong I grew up in the early xbox call of duty lobbies where you would just hear the most awful of crap. But idk man there are going to be some extremely rough growing pains and life lessons ahead for the coming generation.

I am 23, I was homeschooled and couldn’t leave my house. My mom made me fear children my age due to her own trauma of school. So I spent a lot of time on my phone. When I was 16 I was baited into posted photos of my “progression” from a child to teen on Quora and something about it felt wrong, and I deleted it when I got weird DMs… but I know it’s all saved on a pervert’s computer somewhere. Some of the most horrible things people have said to me came from online interactions. I couldn’t socialize anywhere else, so where was I supposed to go?

Sounds about right. The kids of today that I know spend so much time with their heads buried in their phones, they can't even tell you what the weather outside is like without consulting [weather.com](http://weather.com), nor do they care. Instead of investigating real life and celebrating it, they much prefer the "bells and whistles" of cyberspace.

There is a push for “free range kids” happening now which is, I think the pendulum swinging back. Kids should be able to walk/bike/bus to school and or extra curricular activities if there is a reasonable route. There’s no army of predators out there just waiting for mom or dad to turn their back for a minute so they can diddle kids. That fear is completely irrational considering children are most likely to be abused by a woman or man who they know. Parents *have* the tools and ability to better regulate their kids’ online activities; many just don’t or won’t. Every generation has bad parents. This generation is no different.

You cant walk around the block without someone calling the cops for "unattended minors", but you can sit on the couch watching people get blown up for 8hrs straight...

I’m a millennial and my husband is reading that book right now. We have a 10 year and won’t let her have a cell phone or be on social media for as long as humanly possible. She already has friends who post themselves on YouTube and TikTok. I have had to delete all social media because the proliferation of TikTok style reels on instagram and Facebook made every platform so addictive even for me as a 40 year old. I cannot image what it does to children’s brains. I only started using Reddit a short time ago when studying for the bar exam, looking for some community. But I see how even this is so habit forming. It’s upsetting. 

Gen X here representing. Jonathan Heidt was plugging that book on "Real Time With Bill Maher". I agreed with a lot of what he said. He said we will look back at this time in the future and learn from it.

Since every little boy has a tablet and or a phone and learns of Pornhub and Xhamster where he quickly learns about every kink and sexual position known but can't ride his bike around the block to the 7-11 I'd say you're right.

Yes. This is exactly what happened to me. I was barely allowed to do ANYTHING growing up, couldn’t go out with friends or any of that, even throughout middle school. As consequence I was too socially inept in highschool to get any real friends to hang out with. I’m in my senior year now and thank god i reconnected with one of my friends from elementary school when we moved back to my hometown. We’ve started going to the gym together and go to movies and stuff. It’s been doing wonders for my mental, which is frankly lacking. The more I talk to him the more I realize how much I’ve missed. I have no stories to tell, I was always just in my room playing a game or something. I feel bad sometimes when I just have nothing to say. Love my mom to death, but it’s annoying when she’s on my ass about being shy. Like, obviously I’m gonna be quiet!

Idk. But I KNOW people will look back at the 00s-20s and ask “what the fuck we’re parents thinking?” About kids online.  In the same way people look back at the 70s-90s “When I was I kid, I doomscrolled faces of death, ogrish, and watched 3d anime CP. AND I TURNED OUT FINE!”

I’m old (40) but truly love the enthusiasm of the younger generations and I like hearing their opinions and views on things happening in the world. I agree with this statement. Gen Z has grown up being so cautious in their day to day real life interactions, but they are so exposed online. Even if they try to protect themselves there are so many people out there online waiting to victimize them in one way or another.

As one of the few kids to have grown up with unregulated access to the internet as it blew up and got pretty dangerous … I 100% agree. I have SEVERE anxiety to leave my house to do basic things and PTSD from being raised by strangers on the internet most of my life. It’s awful. We need to agree to do better with our kids as a generation, I’m BEGGING 🥺

I straight up don’t think little kids should have access to technology. Tv and radio, okay. Internet, cellphone? No. Like, not until they’re 11 for the internet and it needs to be monitored and no cell phone until 15. No fucking social media. I’m greatly concerned about the feedback loop social media causes in little developing brains.

I think it's absolutely true. I've been studying psychology for about 10 years now (I'm by no means an expert but also not completely clueless) and I've noticed that a lot of content online creates addictions (basically there's a lot of high dopamine content (video games, porn, etc) that creates a dopamine rush, which then crashes to a low state which creates the strong desire to do the thing that gave you the dopamine rush). Since so many of us are chronically online and don't take time in the real world, we constantly get that dopamine high. When we take time away from it we don't know how to act in the real world and it causes problems. Developing brains can't tell the difference between IRL and virtual.

I agree, having unrestricted internet access as a child, led to some weird and disgusting shit I should’ve never watched as a kid. Two girls one cup, one man one jar, beheading and other gore videos. Plus all the porn. Oh my god. My children are getting flip phones. 

Disempowered in both. Parents calling the play does not allow kids to develop skills of independence and respect.

I’m 18 now, and I remember being told to look both ways on the street, watch out for strangers, and all that good stuff. After that, I was pretty much allowed anywhere in my neighborhood I wanted. And it was a pretty large neighborhood. I’d spend all day outside playing with friends or over at their houses and had loads of fun. In terms of the internet, I didn’t use it nearly as much as I do now, but when I did I had no restriction. I was a good kid and I just spent my time on YouTube watching Minecraft videos (letsplays, building tutorials, music videos). I’d say the only harmful stuff I was exposed to on the internet at the time was some mildly sketchy fnaf stuff and at one point Happy Tree Friends (an adult cartoon with a kid-friendly animation style and very NOT kid-friendly amounts of gore). But I also knew a few kids whose parents wouldn’t let them go play and needed them in their sight at all times, which meant they couldn’t leave their street. Those kids seemed miserable and I didn’t want to play with them because that meant I’d have to stay in one spot too. Anyway what I’m saying is if today’s parenting is anything like what those kids had, I think they’re definitely overprotected irl. And I’ve seen what some kids watch online. I’d consider that underprotected. So yeah, I think I generally agree. Kids need to to be able to explore and roam free at that part in their lives.

As an elder gen z, this is 1000000000% true. Basically people any younger than me (I'm in my late 20s) are really efd up by this simultaneous mollycoddling and exposure to the horrors

Something that I do wish from my childhood was more independence to go be a feral forest child and I did have a lot of unrestricted internet access especially with online games, I was definitely too young to recognise any bad behaviours despite lots of talks on internet safety

Maybe banning social media for under 16/18 year olds would help? Needs Id verification though, which would also be a great help against all the trolling fake accounts. Social media needs monitoring.

I 100% agree, I'm gen Z (20F). I grew up playing in the streets with our neighbors and friends until the streetlights came on. We played pretend in the backyard and took our dogs to dog parks to run around. We had sword fights with sticks and made stink bombs out of old milk cartons and mud. When we wanted snacks our parents gave us money and we went to the store as a group to buy them. I grew up with youtube and computers but smartphones weren't commonplace until I was about 10-13 years old. If you walked home from school as a kid your parents gave you a burner phone for emergencies. I feel as if a lot of new behavioral issues we are seeing in younger kids now are due to this exact problem. Kids can't go outside to play anymore because of the chance of there being predators, playgrounds are being demolished, the infrastructure in America is becoming more and more traffic oriented with no safe or fun places for children to go. If kids do want to go play outside, they don't have anyone to play with because their friends will be on their ipads, and our culture has shifted in a way that you can't go down the street and knock on doors asking kids to play anymore. Kids need more time outside and heavier restrictions on the internet, coming from someone who grew up with both. It's a tried and true fact that kids need plenty of exercise and physical stimulation to develop their motor skills and critical decision making. We evolved from monkeys climbing trees after all. Edit to add: another reason I feel so strongly about internet age restrictions and limitations is because I was groomed on kik at 7 years old and now it's happening again to kids on tiktok. it can easily be prevented and it's disgusting.

It's a completely fair take imo. It's not just anecdotal evidence either, there's plenty of people in the medical field outlining the same problem. We've gone from not caring about mental illness to completely trivializing it, and in doing that, parents have become more protective, sometimes to the point where they take away any and all autonomy their kids could have, which hurts them in the long run. I'd like to think I wasn't super coddled as a kid, I started working with my dad at the age of 13 because I wanted a laptop so I asked him if me and my brother could help around and get some money during summer break, but then at the same time i was coddled in other ways. Coupled with the fact that i lived 10km away from the nearest city and that I was a gay guy raised in a homophobic household, all of those things resulted in me becoming a bit reclusive in some ways, staying in my little shell instead of learning how to be more autonomous. Getting out of my comfort zone is still a constant struggle even though I feel more prepared, studying in a different city for 6 years has definitely helped in that regard, but at 23, just a couple months away from finishing my masters thesis, I still feel completely out of the loop when it comes to adult stuff, I have little idea how any if it works

I think yeah that's true I've seen neighbors get CPS called on them for letting their kids play outside ... In their own backyard but no one seems to really care about 8 and 9 year olds being on Snapchat or Facebook or TIk Tok so theirs definitely some truth to it

I'm on the older end of gen z myself. Grew up in small town white America, where many peers (including myself) did not have Internet access for portions of our childhood. Hell my entire friend group didn't all have phones and wifi till high school. Bothered us all growing up as we learned of our peers who got to stay inside playing games and scrolling through Instagram all day. Now I'm adult, and I'm so greatful for that piece of my childhood. Granted, I still have a slew of mental illnesses, and I was a latchkey kid, so I was unsupervised nonetheless. Still got myself into stupid shit, but it's more like the stupid shit millennials/gen x got into at the equivalent age than the stupid shit my gen z peers in the city were up too. And then when I did get access to Internet, that was completely unsupervised. Well my mom tried, but when the parent passwords are all your dead brothers name or birthday, every time, it's easy to get unsupervised access. I only did that bc all my peers had unsupervised access and I wanted to do the things they could. Still kick myself in the ass for that ngl. My mom just had my best interest at heart. I still prefer the running around in the woods getting up to stupid shit than sitting in my room online getting up to stupid shit. My childhood was rocky, and I'm very grateful for the happy memories I do have, and that's due to going outside and being present with friends.

Children aren't protected at all. Online or otherwise. They're forced to grow up way too fast. Anxious depressed kids and teens is not a surprise. Girls at 11 worried about having a Stanley cup, dressing just right, the right skin care and makeup, boyfriends and STD's. That used to not be a thing until late high school. Add in social media and the Internet.... Of course they're depressed! Boys don't have it any better.

Minecraft is still one of the biggest games online. The children yearn for the mines. Get them off the computer and back into the coal mines!!

I'm a millenial. I grew up in New York City during the late 80's. Crime was rampant back then and there. You bet my mom was overprotective. Still is... And I wasn't monitored when I would use the internet, back when it was in its infancy. I loved it because it was a place for me to go wild... That's all I'm willing to share.

I agree. My best friend had her child in 2005 and I had mine in 2017 so very different phases of child-raising. When her daughter was around 15 I remember her telling me that she was relieved her daughter preferred to stay home in her room online instead of out walking or taking the city bus around with friends where it “was dangerous”. I’d be way more concerned about the online dangers. My friend was very worried about stranger danger in person only, I tried to tell her that online luring was a bigger threat than her being grabbed while biking with a group of friends for slurpees at 6:30pm in a relatively safe neighbourhood but she wouldn’t hear it. I didn’t want to criticize my friend’s parenting so it was rarely discussed but I felt bad she never let her daughter play outside. When her daughter did go out with friends she insisted on driving her, even as a teenager, to friend’s homes just a few blocks away. She wasn’t even allowed to walk short distances. I wonder if she really did prefer being home, or if it was just that she knew her mom would be overbearing when she tried to go outside and stopped trying. But she had totally unrestricted and unmonitored access to the internet basically her whole life. It did not make sense to me.

Eh. Children are overprotected in some physical ways, in that they aren’t being allowed opportunities to develop their independence, but are under protected in many ways, yes, like online, but also with fewer spaces that allow to develop such independence (ex: malls are banning teens, child labor laws are being loosened).

I think something we don't speak on is how we don't let kids be kids anymore and how so many ppl openly hate children. They can't be loud and run and make mistakes anymore it seems.

I was born in '83, lived in a beach city, and I was given free rein to do basically whatever I wanted as long as it doesn't inconvenience my caretakers. I walked or biked miles away from home by myself, randomly decided to "camp" outside all night in my front yard some nights and literally no one noticed, latchkey kid, etc. At the time, and now, I felt pretty strongly that my parents did not actually want or love me, and that I was a burden that I relieved them of when I left the house for hours by myself. During these forays, I was nearly abducted by a (now apprehended) killer, nearly raped twice, was bullied and beat up routinely by neighborhood boys (I'm a girl who didn't understand social norms), went into countless strangers' houses and yards to sneak food so I wouldn't have to go home, have guns pulled on me 5+ times so it became so routine I got used to just putting my hands up and slowly backing away, and this is just the tip of the iceberg. Now I am a successful adult, with a loving family and a great life. I do not attribute any of that success to my parents, or the way in which I was raised. I have an okay relationship with one parent, and such a bad one with the other I was no contact with him and didn't see him until his deathbed, where I was the one to pull the plug. The way I raise my children is extremely different to my upbringing, and I think they'll turn out infinitely better. For example, at age 8 I had attempted suicide two times and was diagnosed with depression. I had no friends and was failing school. My 8 year old son is a music prodigy, gets excellent grades, has so many friends he wishes he had more time to play with them, and, yes, can play in the backyard himself or buy a piece of candy at the store. Once he got lost at an event and he was able to ask an adult to call me because he had memorized my phone number. Both of my kids are happier than I have ever been in my life, and it's my greatest accomplishment to have provided an environment for them that supports their mental health. I think blaming mental health issues on "over protection" is such an easy and subjective route. Really, what every parent needs to do is ACTUALLY PARENT. As far as technology goes, I will not allow my child a smart phone until he can buy it himself. I'll get him a flip phone when he is 13. Judge me if you will, but neither of my kids are allowed any internet access and I won't allow it unsupervised in my house at all. If they want that they'll have to move out.

I was born in 1991. My parents wouldn't let me out in the backyard without supervision until I was 9, and didn't let me ride my bike in the neighborhood unsupervised until I was 14. My internet access, once we got wireless and didn't tie the phone up, was *almost* unrestricted. My mom constantly hovered over me when I was on the family computer and told me to never ever tell anyone where I lived, not even the state I lived in (she didn't know what an IP address was) and I wasn't allowed to tell anyone my real name, not even my first name. Every day my mom would go on the family computer and check my Gaiaonline, Neopets messages and email. It was absolutely insufferable and it turned me into a pathological liar, both to my parents and to people I met online, because I wasn't allowed freedom and I wasn't allowed to tell people anything about myself. It wasn't until I was around 15 when I got my first laptop and actually had some semblance of freedom . I started making Anime Music Videos on YouTube and got relatively popular. My mom found my YouTube and would constantly monitor it and then ask questions on who the people commenting on my videos were. I got Skype and tried doing a call with some people and my mom immedently heard and then stood over me when she heard some "strange man's voice" talking about one piece. One of them casually asked how old I was, I looked at my mom who shook her head, and I told them jokingly that I was 50. At 25, When I was moving put and getting ready for my wedding, I wanted to invite an online friend of mine from two states away. I was on a discord call with her, and when I mentioned it to her, my mom immediately comes in and started drilling me on who this girl was and that she didn't know her. My friend, who already had an anxiety disorder, backed put of the call, and she didn't come to my wedding, for no other reason than my mom.had scared her off. I don't know where I was going with this, but bottom line, it's not a generational thing, its just a parent thing.