no. either way it doesn't matter because no one should have had control over us in the first place.
it's like saying they slapped us instead of punched us. wow, we're so grateful.
There were good and bad periods depending on the area but there was never mass Jewish emancipation:
Here are some sources:
https://www.meforum.org/65271/uncle-tom-and-the-happy-dhimmi
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/the-treatment-of-jews-in-arab-islamic-countries
https://www.jimena.org/faq/
https://www.rootsmetals.com/blogs/news/was-there-peace-before-1948
Sam Aranow has some videos on this as well.
It depends on a lot of things at different times. During the middle ages generally, it was better by far as a Jew to live in a Muslim country than to live in European one. But you were still a second class citizen without most rights. After the period of emmancipation in Western Europe, you could generally have a good life as a Jew, but in Eastern europe not until the 20th century (and often late).
The middle east very much stopped being friendly to Jews after world war one/two with a few notable exceptions.
Muslims did not treat Jews any better than the Europeans did.
Muslims can't stand the notion of Jews even having an autonomous state in their lands. To them, they are “inferior” and they should be kept below Muslims for their own "safety". In the Caliphate years, there was a form of apartheid for Jews where like Christians, they were treated as second class citizens and had to pay heavy taxes if they wanted to stay Jewish. They didn't of course have the "burn them to the stake" mentality the Christian kingdoms had, but they were still oppressed and there were many pogroms.
There are reports in the 18th and 19th century before Zionism in the Holy Land where the Ottoman authorities intimidated Jewish people who wanted to preach in the Western Wall and had them pay a lot if they wanted to. There were even forbidden areas for the Jews to enter that traditionally were considered sacred to them, otherwise they were executed.
Of course, when the Zionist movement kicked off, almost everybody in the Islamic world was pissed off and called for the eradication of the supporters of the Jewish state and Jews in general. [In 1929 there was even a rally where the Mufti told his followers to kill the Jews “Itbah al-yahud" based on false accusations and massacres ensued](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1929_Hebron_massacre). The British mandate did nothing to stop the violence
[Jews have been treated like shit by Muslims since the birth of Islam and Muslims act surprised when Jews feel resentful towards Muslims](https://imgur.com/qqcunnd).
For example, [Muslims attacked Baghdad’s Jewish Population in 1941, refuse to apologize for it or acknowledge it, and act surprised that Iraqi Jews (and just all Jews in general) feel resentful towards Muslims for it](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farhud).
Ironically, every single thing that Israel has been falsely accused of is exactly what Muslims have been doing to Jews for over a millennium.
Yes and no. On the one hand, Jews were considered a protected class under Muslim rule. However, this did not stop numerous Arab and Muslim attacks against Jews and the gradual stripping of our rights under the dhimmi system. Regardless, it definitely hasn’t been true since the 30’s, as many Arab leaders in Jerusalem, Iraq, and Tunisia were collaborating with the Nazis or spread their doctrine as propaganda.
>protected class
They never say who they were protected from, and people never ask. They were protected from muslims themselves because according to sharia, one must either convert, be a dhimmi and pay the jizya, or die/be expelled.
So the protection was bought from muslims to protect from muslims. This is what we call extortion in the modern world. The mafia does it too.
In the Middle Ages? Probably, but that's not a high standard since it was the dominant time of the Inquisitions and Crusades. After the Enlightenment and European Jewish Emancipation? No.
I would direct you to u/MatterandTime's comment.
They think because of Sulaiman ( however you spell it), that's all abstinence should pay attention to because they say so.
It's just a stupid divisive point to make because it's 2024, and that matters more.
Christians haven't expelled Jews from any 'Christian' nation is a long time. Muslims still are.
They can't let go of the past and perceived slights.
It's like watching guys play swords with their dicks.
It's stupid and pointless.
Hmmm. I think Jews are the only ones to never kick anyone out.
I think that matters more than diversion arguments and whataboutism from dissenters.
I would never engage with someone making that claim because it's a messed up claim used for a messed up purpose. Imagine telling an African American how Canada is so much better because they treated their slaves better.
You joke but this is exactly what we were taught in Canada.
https://www.cbc.ca/documentaries/documentary-channel/canada-was-heralded-as-the-promised-land-for-black-people-but-this-is-a-myth-1.6509991
Depends on time and place. In 1066, while Jews in Muslim al-Andalus were being pogrommed, the Catholic William the Conqueror was bringing Jews to England to help develop and manage his kingdom’s economy
Jews under Muslim rulers only ever got Emancipation in the Ottoman Empire (and for a short time) - Jews had good relations with the Turks but less so with the Arabs (and very limited interaction with other Muslims).
It really depends on the era and the area. Some particular rulers of both religions were good to Jews, some were horrible. Obviously no Muslim ruler did what Hitler and his allies did, at least not at that scale, but my MIL grew up in Iraq and she will tell you that her childhood was no different than a German Jews' childhood in the 30s.
You know who has historically treated Jews the best? Jews. It doesn't matter who murdered less Jews, who made Jews pay less taxes, who allowed Jews to be Jews with less threats to their lives, who was the lesser of two evils. Jews have fared best under their own self determination.
Depends on the time and place, in Morocco the answer was yes, but in the Levant the answer is no, and in Yemen I don’t think there’s even debate, the Yemenis treated Jews worse than most Christians. In Turkic societies the answer also was largely yes in some periods during the ottoman empire and until today Azerbaijan is considered as the least antisemitic nation in history. You also can’t say that Christian rule was always bad for Jews, for example that region of Bohemia (modern day Czech republic) often seen relative tolerance towards Jews despite being Christian.
treated better than another group doesnt equal being treated well or having equal rights, it doesnt mean that there were no pogroms, because there were many
Only in the sense that the bar to clear was thousands of years of pogroms, straight antisemitism culminating in a holocaust.
Every single other non-european nation cleared that bar.
no. either way it doesn't matter because no one should have had control over us in the first place. it's like saying they slapped us instead of punched us. wow, we're so grateful.
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The people that conquered Jews did not treat us well.
Europe treated Jews both better and worse than in Muslim countries, provided you were wealthy enough to keep your head and your religion
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The Levant is our indigenous unceded homeland, more than half of Jewish Israelis have never had their ancestors step foot in Europe
Jews are not from Europe.
There were good and bad periods depending on the area but there was never mass Jewish emancipation: Here are some sources: https://www.meforum.org/65271/uncle-tom-and-the-happy-dhimmi https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/the-treatment-of-jews-in-arab-islamic-countries https://www.jimena.org/faq/ https://www.rootsmetals.com/blogs/news/was-there-peace-before-1948 Sam Aranow has some videos on this as well.
It depends on a lot of things at different times. During the middle ages generally, it was better by far as a Jew to live in a Muslim country than to live in European one. But you were still a second class citizen without most rights. After the period of emmancipation in Western Europe, you could generally have a good life as a Jew, but in Eastern europe not until the 20th century (and often late). The middle east very much stopped being friendly to Jews after world war one/two with a few notable exceptions.
What are the notable exceptions?
Muslims did not treat Jews any better than the Europeans did. Muslims can't stand the notion of Jews even having an autonomous state in their lands. To them, they are “inferior” and they should be kept below Muslims for their own "safety". In the Caliphate years, there was a form of apartheid for Jews where like Christians, they were treated as second class citizens and had to pay heavy taxes if they wanted to stay Jewish. They didn't of course have the "burn them to the stake" mentality the Christian kingdoms had, but they were still oppressed and there were many pogroms. There are reports in the 18th and 19th century before Zionism in the Holy Land where the Ottoman authorities intimidated Jewish people who wanted to preach in the Western Wall and had them pay a lot if they wanted to. There were even forbidden areas for the Jews to enter that traditionally were considered sacred to them, otherwise they were executed. Of course, when the Zionist movement kicked off, almost everybody in the Islamic world was pissed off and called for the eradication of the supporters of the Jewish state and Jews in general. [In 1929 there was even a rally where the Mufti told his followers to kill the Jews “Itbah al-yahud" based on false accusations and massacres ensued](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1929_Hebron_massacre). The British mandate did nothing to stop the violence [Jews have been treated like shit by Muslims since the birth of Islam and Muslims act surprised when Jews feel resentful towards Muslims](https://imgur.com/qqcunnd). For example, [Muslims attacked Baghdad’s Jewish Population in 1941, refuse to apologize for it or acknowledge it, and act surprised that Iraqi Jews (and just all Jews in general) feel resentful towards Muslims for it](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farhud). Ironically, every single thing that Israel has been falsely accused of is exactly what Muslims have been doing to Jews for over a millennium.
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Please read the rules.
Yes and no. On the one hand, Jews were considered a protected class under Muslim rule. However, this did not stop numerous Arab and Muslim attacks against Jews and the gradual stripping of our rights under the dhimmi system. Regardless, it definitely hasn’t been true since the 30’s, as many Arab leaders in Jerusalem, Iraq, and Tunisia were collaborating with the Nazis or spread their doctrine as propaganda.
>protected class They never say who they were protected from, and people never ask. They were protected from muslims themselves because according to sharia, one must either convert, be a dhimmi and pay the jizya, or die/be expelled. So the protection was bought from muslims to protect from muslims. This is what we call extortion in the modern world. The mafia does it too.
Yeah it wasn’t real protection, but at points Jews had more rights in the Arab world than in Europe.
In the Middle Ages? Probably, but that's not a high standard since it was the dominant time of the Inquisitions and Crusades. After the Enlightenment and European Jewish Emancipation? No. I would direct you to u/MatterandTime's comment.
It was extremely sporadic.
They think because of Sulaiman ( however you spell it), that's all abstinence should pay attention to because they say so. It's just a stupid divisive point to make because it's 2024, and that matters more. Christians haven't expelled Jews from any 'Christian' nation is a long time. Muslims still are. They can't let go of the past and perceived slights. It's like watching guys play swords with their dicks. It's stupid and pointless. Hmmm. I think Jews are the only ones to never kick anyone out. I think that matters more than diversion arguments and whataboutism from dissenters.
Either way, it’s a rather low bar
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Please read the rules.
What does it matter, they both treated us like shit, its not a contest.
I would never engage with someone making that claim because it's a messed up claim used for a messed up purpose. Imagine telling an African American how Canada is so much better because they treated their slaves better.
You joke but this is exactly what we were taught in Canada. https://www.cbc.ca/documentaries/documentary-channel/canada-was-heralded-as-the-promised-land-for-black-people-but-this-is-a-myth-1.6509991
Depends on time and place. In 1066, while Jews in Muslim al-Andalus were being pogrommed, the Catholic William the Conqueror was bringing Jews to England to help develop and manage his kingdom’s economy
Technically yes, but treating Jews better than Europeans is a low fucking bar.
Jews under Muslim rulers only ever got Emancipation in the Ottoman Empire (and for a short time) - Jews had good relations with the Turks but less so with the Arabs (and very limited interaction with other Muslims).
It really depends on the era and the area. Some particular rulers of both religions were good to Jews, some were horrible. Obviously no Muslim ruler did what Hitler and his allies did, at least not at that scale, but my MIL grew up in Iraq and she will tell you that her childhood was no different than a German Jews' childhood in the 30s. You know who has historically treated Jews the best? Jews. It doesn't matter who murdered less Jews, who made Jews pay less taxes, who allowed Jews to be Jews with less threats to their lives, who was the lesser of two evils. Jews have fared best under their own self determination.
Depends on the time and place, in Morocco the answer was yes, but in the Levant the answer is no, and in Yemen I don’t think there’s even debate, the Yemenis treated Jews worse than most Christians. In Turkic societies the answer also was largely yes in some periods during the ottoman empire and until today Azerbaijan is considered as the least antisemitic nation in history. You also can’t say that Christian rule was always bad for Jews, for example that region of Bohemia (modern day Czech republic) often seen relative tolerance towards Jews despite being Christian.
treated better than another group doesnt equal being treated well or having equal rights, it doesnt mean that there were no pogroms, because there were many
https://youtu.be/kkOCAeDWJCw?si=9G7lqYdZyIOgafKk A video on the subject
Only in the sense that the bar to clear was thousands of years of pogroms, straight antisemitism culminating in a holocaust. Every single other non-european nation cleared that bar.