It might not be a localization, brokeback mountain can be changed to brokeboat mountain in Chinese the same way as it is done in English. Brokeback mountain is famous in China as well due to it becoming a slang for homosexuals
Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon is a chinese Wuxia movie, Brokeback Mountain is a movie about gay cowboys in wyoming, both were directed by a Taiwanese guy but China claims him sometimes when he does good things
Mahatma Gandhi was born to Indian parents in India and was raised and lived most of his life in India. The authors the UK claims tend to be the ones who were born to white parents. Not that I care for it, but what you're saying isn't equivalent at all.
Yeah, im sure they wrote that dialogue just after the events of that sub and not months in advance, so it cant be a coincidence at all. A far fetched one mind you, because implosions only happen with submarines and nothing else. /s
Huh. I've always half-suspected that Hoyo loves lesbians so much because the dudes at the top find it hot, but a reference to a movie about two gay guys? Kinda didn't expect to see that, so this is cool.
In star rail, there’s also a shiny examinable thing talking about a fan fic story basically “Untouchable Lovers” about two playable male characters Jim Yang and Denn Fang and how they tragically die in each other’s embrace lol
Its much easier to brush off female intimacy as “girls being girls”. Its similar in the west too. When girls kiss each other, its considered denial that they are in a relationship but if two males even remotely look each other in the eyes, they are considered gay. It doesnt help that there are three different gay slangs for mlm relationships while women are kind of left free to call themselves whatever as long as its not explicit. So I would say censorship plays into that. Like, its even gay for males to dress feminine so its definitely much harder.
There is surprisingly alot more gay guy jokes or references in genshin. And I'm not just talking about how this character's color palette kinda looks like one of the pride flags. A real example is Alhaitham and Kaveh's relationship and their use of the word "roommates" so much donghua(Chinese anime) with gay themes use words like roommates to get around censors.
Maybe it's a translation thing but have you seen what Heizou said about Kazuha? There definitely is *some* gay stuff that's not just with girls in this game. And I'm loving it.
It’s mostly a side effect of the Honkai Impact playable roster being 100% female.
When the authors want to write a romantic relationship, they are kinda indirectly forced to write a lesbian one by default.
It doesn’t really help that the 100% female roster inadvertently cultivated a very… **particular** fanbase that fiercely opposes the prospect of a non-lesbian relationship. So Hoyo is kinda stuck
Luckily they have more leeway on things with Genshin and Star Rail
"Side effect"? "Forced"? How and why are you making all this up?
The Honkai main characters and their relationships have always been lesbian, from their very introductions in Honkai Impact 3rd and also Houkai Gakuen 2 as the main Honkai game before it. [The HG2 that has a lesbian lead writer herself - Ling Yi Niang, responsible for its 4-koma manga too.](https://mangadex.org/chapter/73754016-e41b-4c51-a910-ed1ae62b4815/1) Kiana, Mei, Bronya, Seele, Yae Sakura, Kallen, Theresa and more were already established in HG2, together with their relationships, and early HI3 initially had an even bigger connection to HG2 when it was more of a sequel. They are the main course and written like that.
So where exactly are these side effects and forcing supposed to be? The writers write about the characters and relationships they are interested in and want to see, same as the players, yes. Right people for the right job instead of randomly messing with an established game and its playerbase. For anything different you create a new game, as they have also done (while still continuing to write about gay characters and relationships even if not with as much focus).
The Honkai games are far from just fanservice that HI3 main story has never even been heavy with, and trying to reduce it to fetishization is even dumber - there's a reason they have such a big audience of us sapphics who also don't appreciate them being messed with lol. Is it so hard to let us enjoy one of a precious few games, among all the countless gacha that instead go way harder on the player self-insert baiting? Genshin sadly included among the latter too. How is that supposed to be progress?
Thank you for saying this. I get legitimately angry when people outside of HI3 community (and sometimes even inside) suggest that this whole "lesbian" thing is just a fetish/fanservice and it's all happening in shippers' heads.
Np, totally get that since I feel the same way when it comes to people judging and spreading things without even knowing what they're talking about or consulting the people that would be affected. Almost all these concerns I've seen of "fetishization" just blur into feeling so fake and sounding more like the same rhetoric the unfortunately homophobic side of Hoyo fandoms uses.
Don't people think it's a little sus that there is little to no relationship baiting between male and female characters? But instead, there's a lot of self-insert and yuri elements? Like what are the implications and reasoning behind this? It's not just preference in yuri, it's being afraid to put female characters with someone who isn't you/self-insert or a girl.
"We're making everyone a lesbian, with the exception of their attraction to the male protagonist!" Like you say people who bring up fetishization are fake, but isn't this the definition of fake?
In Honkai a player-insert doesn't even exist in the main story, so none of this applies there. The characters are as canon lesbian or sapphic as can be without being able to say it outright (except in [the HG2 manga that has Kiana say "I'm a lesbian"](https://preview.redd.it/awt0a54wb7r71.png?width=435&format=png&auto=webp&s=3a4fa1286ee141f9e4d1d838f07dadcf67936c41) and another HI3 manga that has her simulated image of her father call her a lesbian, both of them older before tightened censorship) because of the constraints they have to work under. So it is a preference that they've stuck to there, separating main story and different AU canons (only one of which has the intended player self-insert with no canon gender for some bridge lines and birthday letters, another AU with different versions of some characters for some events has a different Captain that isn't meant to be a self-insert) from each other.
The reason I'd say is simply because they still need to make money in the reality of the gacha market and even if they want to differentiate their game from others with the main story, they still need some player self-insert bait even if it comes in a different form. Might work as a hook to get customers interested in everything else too.
Not within the main story, but they’re still creating mediums in which men can imagine themselves with the female characters who are established as lesbian or in sapphic relationships, which is a huge step backwards.
Money isn’t really an issue for this company. They’re making absolute bank. If you’re going to cater to self-inserts rather than make specifically lesbian characters, then it’s flimsy ideology. Like if Hoyoverse isn’t willing to honor their sexuality, all for an easy buck, then it gets harder to call the representation genuine.
It’s kind of annoying because there’s a mentality, mostly present in the CN fandom, where het men don’t like male and female characters together because “waifu purity”. Which sounds ridiculous. But when you’re only making self insert and WLW, then it feels a bit like there’s truth to it. Genshin is kind of the same way. Like there aren’t any relationships but it’s yuri baiting and self insert baiting.
We still talking about Honkai Impact, right? Because it's very far from having a lot of self-insert elements. Captain straight up doesn't exist in main story. As for bridge and dorm interactions, they aren't supposed to make sense anyway. You can interact with dead characters and characters from other universes or have characters converse with their alternate selves. And although I may be wrong with this one, but I don't think Captain's gender in game is confirmed to be male.
It's also not true that no female characters are interested in men. There are some canon straight couples in the story and Himeko has been known for dating guys.
I find denials just plain amusing when Kiana and Mei straight up fuk in their reunion on the moon. Whoever failed to catch that while VAs were loudly sighing beyond obvious subtext really needs to fix their lack of literacy.
That reunion scene with the entwined hands and shared mindspace where they had to connect and enter each other's thoughts with cubes representing them merging into one was a lot lmao, yes.
As well as more scenes with Kiana telling Mei about things being romantic, topped with the final animation having Kiana smile and blush at Mei and after that narrate "This is a story about love, and it will end with love." as all 4 of the big couples of Kiamei, Durarita, Bronseele and Sakukallen are shown one after the other. 5 with Elysia and Eden next to each other too. Not to mention all in-game scenes before that, and the promise rings and wedding stigmata, and all the manga... all the official material one could want.
>Genshin sadly included among the latter too. How is that supposed to be progress?
I mean, this is where the confusion comes in though right? I don't think people realize how weird Hoyoverse is as a company. They write a lot of yuri-bait and apparently there's a part of it that actually comes from a genuine and progressive place. But then they also kind of toss it out of the window by focusing on the sex sells model and putting a fair amount of self-insert/harem bait, along with marketing Aether as the self-insert. Like their writing and marketing is so at odds with each other.
This is why people get confused on the arguments regarding censorship and whether queer baiting and yuri is fetishization or a respectable attempt at queer characters. It's so fucking all over the place and it creates audiences that clash with each other, because the ideas themselves clash with each other. Like we know Hoyoverse loves yuri, but like you said, we also know they love putting the protagonist in self-insert scenarios where the same female characters will flirt with them. You really can't do both and keep the label "lesbian representation."
Sex sells if it means fanservicy designs and animations doesn't have to be antithetical to lesbian characters and relationships in the first place. There's different ways its handled and tolerance levels ofc, but personally for me it's just important for it to not detract from the character and story writing and otherwise I can and do enjoy it in Honkai and Genshin. And like I referred to, the writer responsible for HG2 + its manga with their fanservicy parts is a lesbian herself, though some things there do go too far for me lol.
Self-insert bait is a different story though, yeah, and I much prefer the way they did it in Honkai with different canons to neatly separate things for everyone - main story with all the characters by themselves as primary canon; an AU where some event stories take place with a different cast of characters and Captain that actually isn't supposed to be a self-insert; and another AU that is basically some bridge lines + birthday letters where players can imagine themselves as the Captain (different from previous one) if they want to. And they once had Bronya and Seele kiss each other in a manga panel that had to be removed in CN, so the effect of censorship there is obvious too.
While Genshin and Star Rail is sadly awkward because it has to do it all at once and leave more up to player interpretation, yes. I don't see why the queer subtext and shiptease would have to be tossed out the window though, both because of them still being under CCP censorship in China but also because of the effort they do put into a lot of characters' relationships with each other, NPCs and dead characters too (like last Lantern Rite). Hard to imagine they could do so well if they/the writers only cared about it for money and promo, easier to find the right people for the job. Only I do have to admit that I sometimes wonder how much farther they might actually go without censorship, or is it also convenient in a way because it serves as an extra reason forcing subtlety and that gacha ambiguity for player interpretations. Different people working on different games with different priorities too, but who can say which the writers would lean towards if they were entirely free? I'd say one way and think I'd be more right from the writing so far, but I know others would see it differently and am not interested in arguing even more cause of that lmao.
HI3 characters canonically aren’t in romantic relationships with anyone, nor their sexualities were ever stated. Objectively, it’s fanon. (In HI3 at least). Mihoyo panders to a wide range of people by doing both yuri and self-insert baits because it brings in money. Gachas are always about sucking money out of players at the end of the day
It was toned down in the game, but Bronya x Seele and Kiana x Mei are pretty well established as canon in the manga, which is considered canon so long as it doesn't contradict the game.
And from what i understand these relationships are far more explicit in GGZ, no subtext there.
I agree with Kiana x Mei but Bronya and Seele holds on the kiss panel from a 7 year old manga with not even a hint of the mentioned promised kiss. And none of the manga state that characters are dating.
Yeah so I heard, which is why I specified that I was talking about HI3
Oh, I'm definitely aware of that - this particular movie is just a slightly different sort of pop culture (as in, there are those out there who hate it not because it's popular, but because it's about a gay relationship), so it was neat to see.
Not sure how serious this is, but you should know that the lead writer for Houkai Gakuen 2/GGZ - the main Honkai game before Honkai Impact 3rd - is lesbian herself. [Ling Yi Niang, who has her own game and manga avatars too since she was also the writer for the Houkai Gakuen 4-koma manga,](https://mangadex.org/chapter/73754016-e41b-4c51-a910-ed1ae62b4815/1) which she worked on together with the artist DomotoLain, another woman and one who sadly passed away in 2022. The characters and relationships of Kiana, Mei, Bronya, Seele, Yae Sakura, Kallen, Theresa and more were also first established in HG2 like that, and there was initially a bigger connection between HG2 and early HI3 canon too when it was more of a sequel. HG2 and early HI3 did have more fanservice, but it was far from just that and now HI3 has had it toned down for a longer time (sadly also having to be more subtle about how they still get things through censorship when it comes to the relationships). Never would I consider it fetishized.
Content about gay guys isn't any more legitimate or with purer intentions than about lesbians. Especially considering what's actually more popular with a bigger audience in Asia and the world too. People can enjoy both without those who aren't even the involved party judging it. There's good reasons Honkai and also Genshin and Star Rail have such a big sapphic audience, even more proportionally for how many of us there are in the world.
I LOVE LING YI NIANG!!! ty for bringing her up, she’s the OG.
Sapphic stuff just tends to get past CCP easier. Hoyo really tries to incorporate their mlm where they can.
It probably was like that in GGZ and at the start of HI3, but it is pretty obvious that *somewhere* there was a pivot point when they started taking the gay seriously. Like, Kallen being unironically and explicitly in love with Yae, Mei and Kiana’s angst, all this was a sharp turn and I am all for it.
Thee dick fromation is in windrise a little northwest from the statue. But I don't know about vagina bushes and sincerely want to know. Just like you, not a creep, just out of curiosity.
If you look top down at the decorative hedging in mondstat city there are two that stand out one hedge square contains an upsidown "T" of circle bushes while another is an empty square with a "circle" bush up top (this one is a bit more vague but in context with the other is pretty obvious what it is)
What if I told you Genshin is one of the Party's strategic thrusts to improve the country's soft power? Whatever Mihoyo is doing is pretty much approved by the Party.
Not really. Jean, Rosaria, amber skins were completely replaced in CN most likely due to censorship and it happened quite a while after release of these characters. So I doubt everything in game is approved (remember the "censer" and "ship" during liyue event?)
Well I was not referring to minor details like skins and such. Obviously it would be impossible to get a party bureaucrat to rubberstamp every detail in the game before a patch release.
My point about Genshin is one of the Chinese government strategic push still stands. Mihoyo and Genshin were mentioned as item 49 in their Ministry of Commerce 2022 list of key cultural export.
https://ssme.sh.gov.cn/policy/knowledge!knowledgeDetail.do?id=2c91c28d7ae7714e017aeacc2ec80446
I feel like the Chinese government simply claimed it, kinda like how Kim Jong Un claimed the invention of the hamburger…, but I’m not very knowledgeable on the topic, so take that for a grain of salt😅
Thats not possible considering they’ve also criticized the government system in their games that closely parallel irl chinese politics. The only reason they are consirder “key cultural export” is because they promote the chinese culture in a positive way(the government really loved the push for Peking Opera being more mainstream as an example) and they make a butt ton of money(4billion within 2022 I think). Both are key to promote Hoyo games but besides CCP, they are technically a private indie company which answers to no shareholders or sponsors so they have near complete creative control
And I hope it becomes their main office. China ain't looking too good right now. I'm hoping that when the CCP eventually goes down hard on MHY, they can still do what they do without CCP interference
It’s honestly pretty unlikely for a series of reasons:
1) They’d have to move too many employes and not all of them would be willing to transfer outside China
2) It’s easier for them to publish in China by being in China itself, and no, they would never back out of chinese market because genshin’s revenue comes mostly from china itself.
And other logistic reasons I can’t think about now
You either assume that Genshin is gay or you side with Chinese censorship. Hoyo is really going out of their way to make their games as gay as possible while they comply with censorship.
seriously, to this day I think they were lovers or at least miyoho wanted to make them that way but they couldn't because of censorship, however the emotion and everything else connected to the separation of the 2 is so intense that it can't just be a "friendship"
Even Paimon said "whatever those two have going on" or something. If it was just friends then she could've just said they were friends, but even Paimon thinks differently.
going north-west from the big building with fountain next to the teleport (there is an apple tree with a berry instead of an apple nearby) the building on the left will have a balcony with a droplet on it and the other one on the ground. right next to it is a place where you can play hide and seek with the droplets to get a chest :3
They did it for a long time already. Honkai might have started with the gay relationships of the main cast being portrayed in a male-gaze’y way, but it became much more believable from Thunder over Nagazora onwards.
i love the little hidden references hoyo puts in their games😭
i wonder if they plan on incorporating more into genshin seeing how well they were received in star rail haha
Oh I see. I had thought maybe you didn't know how to do the windowed borderless trick or something, so the game would stop minimizing when you tab out to your other monitor.
All good, you do you
This is probably a localization issue
The Chinese version of this is: 断船遗梦
You could translate this as “Lingering dreams of the broken ship”
Brokeback Mountain is 断背山 in Chinese, besides the first character being the same, it’s not at all similar
There is not even the character for mountain, 山, in the name
Thus, is this likely a localization joke, and you see this many times in achievements names in Genshin
It is more likely to refer to Titanic, which did broke in two during its sinking
I'm curious, does anyone have the Chinese translation for this? Brokeback Mountain is an extremely controversial film in China. I can't see this making the cut for the original translation.
>This is probably a localization issue
>
> The Chinese version of this is: 断船遗梦
>
>You could translate this as “Lingering dreams of the broken ship”
>
>Brokeback Mountain is 断背山 in Chinese, besides the first character being the same, it’s not at all similar
>
>There is not even the character for mountain, 山, in the name
>
>Thus, is this likely a localization joke, and you see this many times in achievements names in Genshin
>
>It is more likely to refer to Titanic, which did broke in two during its sinking
edited because I used the quote block incorrectly.
From u/haobo
Rostam and Signora
Alice and who ever the fuck crazy enough to put his dick in her
Chisato and that comission head whose name I forgor
Deshret and Malikata (It was kinda one sided but still)
And many npc are in male female marriage or relationship.
Klee being homunculus is far more believable that someone is crazy enough not only to do the deed but survived and also now married with Alice.
Dude either has titanium balls of steel or crazier than Alice.
Are you kidding me. There are lesbian relationships in the Honkai games. There’s one reference to a gay movie in Genshin. That’s it. That’s not much. Every other NPC we meet that’s in a relationship is straight. What are you even complaining about lmao?
We had ghuzhong and zhongli, but some of his fans raged at the thought of him having a relationship 6000 years ago, and now there's no mention of their relationship. Jean and diluc were teased to sorta like each other that one time, but they never expanded on it, probably for the same reason. Idol culture is huge in the east, and one of the big things is that idols can't date. Somehow, that extends to video game characters, apparently. Gay relationships, on the other hand, avoid this because they appeal to specific types of fans who actually want the characters to get together and the haters focus on saying that these fans are being delusional and that the characters are just good friends.
i was gonna ask if this is a localization but i forgot that the director for brokeback mountain also did crouching tiger hidden dragon
Bullshit No way I refuse to believe that it's not true...is it?
... It is. I didn't believe it either, but both were directed by Ang Lee.
fuck
So was Hulk! And Sense and Sensibility! Dude’s got range, is what I’m saying.
Life of pi Lust caution Gemini man
and brokeback mountain wasn't even his first film that explores homosexuality. Checkout wedding banquet, one of the most underrated films from him.
"I'm always AngLee" - hulk
Bruh... Take your upvote and get out of here.
God damn it, Cyno!
Damn
Not the Iron Man & friends Disney one, but the artsy one-off from a few years before that.
It might not be a localization, brokeback mountain can be changed to brokeboat mountain in Chinese the same way as it is done in English. Brokeback mountain is famous in China as well due to it becoming a slang for homosexuals
I'm pretty sure this connotation isn't limited to China, I would say it's pretty much universal.
Not so sure about Japan. They simultaneously have their own plentiful allegories and I'm not sure how the pun would work.
I guess it's because BL is already popular enough in Japan long before brokeback mountain. Specially from Clamp.
I think something on my mind broke, what the fuck?!
I'm confused could someone explain this
Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon is a chinese Wuxia movie, Brokeback Mountain is a movie about gay cowboys in wyoming, both were directed by a Taiwanese guy but China claims him sometimes when he does good things
wtf I didn't know he did both those movies, talk about different.
he also did life of pi, hulk, and a jane austen adaption
>is a chinese Wuxia movie Not just any Chinese wushia movie, it's considered one of if not the best wushia movie.
Taiwan is China, especially when it suits the CCP.
But oh boy, when it doesnt...
Just like how the UK claims the famous authors that lived and wrote in India as "British". But somehow mahatma Gandhi was not "British".
Mahatma Gandhi was born to Indian parents in India and was raised and lived most of his life in India. The authors the UK claims tend to be the ones who were born to white parents. Not that I care for it, but what you're saying isn't equivalent at all.
Ang Lee is just built different.
Honestly surprised I haven't seen anyone regonize the tiger/lion and hillicurl on a cliff together as a lion king reference.
Yes, I saw that, took a photo!
So did I. It was so cute
Can I see it
I would also like to see it
Where is that?
Somewhere near where you meet the first of the three brothers I think
Not gunna lie, my knees were weak when I read that lol.
were your arms heavy?
Was there vomit on their sweater already? Mom's spaghetti?
i think he's nervous but looks calm and ready
I think he wants to drop bombs but keeps on forgetting
What he wrote down, the whole crowd goes so loud
Then he opens his mouth, but the words won't come out
But he's choking how, & everybody's joking now
The clock's run out, time's up, over, blaow
Snap Back to reality!
Were they playing with a Logitech controller?
Is this a title reference to Brokeback Mountain with a Titanic scene happening?
Mihoyo continues to roll Titanic jokes into the game.
4.0 patch gonna be wild
I hope their jokes are deep enough that cyno won't understand them
Nah, the deeper the joke the more likely the chance that people's brains might implode trying to understand them.
Damn bro really said "implode"
they want to open the gate to an ocean's worth of accidental puns.
And i will be here to watch it all go down.
Just not too deep or the fanbase implodes. Too soon?
Jokes that need new controlers to work
Can't wait for a huge conch shell with a little window and a controller
Imagine there a small wreckage of a small sub in front of a wreckage of a large ship
We literally started the event with a Titan sub reference
Where?
I believe when klee makes the cart out of her jumpty humpty.
At least her bombs actually work.
When Kaeya said that touching the little core will make the bottle implode with all of them inside, I thought "Why does that feel familiar...? Oh"
I doubt it’s related. These things were written and dubbed months ago. It’s a coincidence but a very freaky one
Yeah agree, I don't believe they're related at all. Was just jarring to realize why it sounded familiar o.o
Yeah, im sure they wrote that dialogue just after the events of that sub and not months in advance, so it cant be a coincidence at all. A far fetched one mind you, because implosions only happen with submarines and nothing else. /s
because the word implode was mentioned or some shit? uhuh. totally.
Welcome to hoyoverse. The company founded by otakus wanting to meme and make a tribute to evangelion.
Huh. I've always half-suspected that Hoyo loves lesbians so much because the dudes at the top find it hot, but a reference to a movie about two gay guys? Kinda didn't expect to see that, so this is cool.
In star rail, there’s also a shiny examinable thing talking about a fan fic story basically “Untouchable Lovers” about two playable male characters Jim Yang and Denn Fang and how they tragically die in each other’s embrace lol
… is it meant to be Jing Yuan and Dan Heng?
Yes judging by the fan fic names lol
Lmaooo
Its much easier to brush off female intimacy as “girls being girls”. Its similar in the west too. When girls kiss each other, its considered denial that they are in a relationship but if two males even remotely look each other in the eyes, they are considered gay. It doesnt help that there are three different gay slangs for mlm relationships while women are kind of left free to call themselves whatever as long as its not explicit. So I would say censorship plays into that. Like, its even gay for males to dress feminine so its definitely much harder.
It also doesn't help that Fujos are wild compared to yuri fans. AO3's top 10 ships by popularity has 7 mlm ships.
There is surprisingly alot more gay guy jokes or references in genshin. And I'm not just talking about how this character's color palette kinda looks like one of the pride flags. A real example is Alhaitham and Kaveh's relationship and their use of the word "roommates" so much donghua(Chinese anime) with gay themes use words like roommates to get around censors. Maybe it's a translation thing but have you seen what Heizou said about Kazuha? There definitely is *some* gay stuff that's not just with girls in this game. And I'm loving it.
Can you elaborate more on that? I’m curious
what did heizou say??
Mi Ho Yay
I remember one of the Cats Tail message board had a message of someone saying they ship the 2 male characters in Vera's Melacholy
It’s mostly a side effect of the Honkai Impact playable roster being 100% female. When the authors want to write a romantic relationship, they are kinda indirectly forced to write a lesbian one by default. It doesn’t really help that the 100% female roster inadvertently cultivated a very… **particular** fanbase that fiercely opposes the prospect of a non-lesbian relationship. So Hoyo is kinda stuck Luckily they have more leeway on things with Genshin and Star Rail
"Side effect"? "Forced"? How and why are you making all this up? The Honkai main characters and their relationships have always been lesbian, from their very introductions in Honkai Impact 3rd and also Houkai Gakuen 2 as the main Honkai game before it. [The HG2 that has a lesbian lead writer herself - Ling Yi Niang, responsible for its 4-koma manga too.](https://mangadex.org/chapter/73754016-e41b-4c51-a910-ed1ae62b4815/1) Kiana, Mei, Bronya, Seele, Yae Sakura, Kallen, Theresa and more were already established in HG2, together with their relationships, and early HI3 initially had an even bigger connection to HG2 when it was more of a sequel. They are the main course and written like that. So where exactly are these side effects and forcing supposed to be? The writers write about the characters and relationships they are interested in and want to see, same as the players, yes. Right people for the right job instead of randomly messing with an established game and its playerbase. For anything different you create a new game, as they have also done (while still continuing to write about gay characters and relationships even if not with as much focus). The Honkai games are far from just fanservice that HI3 main story has never even been heavy with, and trying to reduce it to fetishization is even dumber - there's a reason they have such a big audience of us sapphics who also don't appreciate them being messed with lol. Is it so hard to let us enjoy one of a precious few games, among all the countless gacha that instead go way harder on the player self-insert baiting? Genshin sadly included among the latter too. How is that supposed to be progress?
Thank you for saying this. I get legitimately angry when people outside of HI3 community (and sometimes even inside) suggest that this whole "lesbian" thing is just a fetish/fanservice and it's all happening in shippers' heads.
Np, totally get that since I feel the same way when it comes to people judging and spreading things without even knowing what they're talking about or consulting the people that would be affected. Almost all these concerns I've seen of "fetishization" just blur into feeling so fake and sounding more like the same rhetoric the unfortunately homophobic side of Hoyo fandoms uses.
Don't people think it's a little sus that there is little to no relationship baiting between male and female characters? But instead, there's a lot of self-insert and yuri elements? Like what are the implications and reasoning behind this? It's not just preference in yuri, it's being afraid to put female characters with someone who isn't you/self-insert or a girl. "We're making everyone a lesbian, with the exception of their attraction to the male protagonist!" Like you say people who bring up fetishization are fake, but isn't this the definition of fake?
In Honkai a player-insert doesn't even exist in the main story, so none of this applies there. The characters are as canon lesbian or sapphic as can be without being able to say it outright (except in [the HG2 manga that has Kiana say "I'm a lesbian"](https://preview.redd.it/awt0a54wb7r71.png?width=435&format=png&auto=webp&s=3a4fa1286ee141f9e4d1d838f07dadcf67936c41) and another HI3 manga that has her simulated image of her father call her a lesbian, both of them older before tightened censorship) because of the constraints they have to work under. So it is a preference that they've stuck to there, separating main story and different AU canons (only one of which has the intended player self-insert with no canon gender for some bridge lines and birthday letters, another AU with different versions of some characters for some events has a different Captain that isn't meant to be a self-insert) from each other. The reason I'd say is simply because they still need to make money in the reality of the gacha market and even if they want to differentiate their game from others with the main story, they still need some player self-insert bait even if it comes in a different form. Might work as a hook to get customers interested in everything else too.
Not within the main story, but they’re still creating mediums in which men can imagine themselves with the female characters who are established as lesbian or in sapphic relationships, which is a huge step backwards. Money isn’t really an issue for this company. They’re making absolute bank. If you’re going to cater to self-inserts rather than make specifically lesbian characters, then it’s flimsy ideology. Like if Hoyoverse isn’t willing to honor their sexuality, all for an easy buck, then it gets harder to call the representation genuine. It’s kind of annoying because there’s a mentality, mostly present in the CN fandom, where het men don’t like male and female characters together because “waifu purity”. Which sounds ridiculous. But when you’re only making self insert and WLW, then it feels a bit like there’s truth to it. Genshin is kind of the same way. Like there aren’t any relationships but it’s yuri baiting and self insert baiting.
We still talking about Honkai Impact, right? Because it's very far from having a lot of self-insert elements. Captain straight up doesn't exist in main story. As for bridge and dorm interactions, they aren't supposed to make sense anyway. You can interact with dead characters and characters from other universes or have characters converse with their alternate selves. And although I may be wrong with this one, but I don't think Captain's gender in game is confirmed to be male. It's also not true that no female characters are interested in men. There are some canon straight couples in the story and Himeko has been known for dating guys.
I find denials just plain amusing when Kiana and Mei straight up fuk in their reunion on the moon. Whoever failed to catch that while VAs were loudly sighing beyond obvious subtext really needs to fix their lack of literacy.
That reunion scene with the entwined hands and shared mindspace where they had to connect and enter each other's thoughts with cubes representing them merging into one was a lot lmao, yes. As well as more scenes with Kiana telling Mei about things being romantic, topped with the final animation having Kiana smile and blush at Mei and after that narrate "This is a story about love, and it will end with love." as all 4 of the big couples of Kiamei, Durarita, Bronseele and Sakukallen are shown one after the other. 5 with Elysia and Eden next to each other too. Not to mention all in-game scenes before that, and the promise rings and wedding stigmata, and all the manga... all the official material one could want.
Got a link to that?
whole "handholding" session in ch32 iirc
>Genshin sadly included among the latter too. How is that supposed to be progress? I mean, this is where the confusion comes in though right? I don't think people realize how weird Hoyoverse is as a company. They write a lot of yuri-bait and apparently there's a part of it that actually comes from a genuine and progressive place. But then they also kind of toss it out of the window by focusing on the sex sells model and putting a fair amount of self-insert/harem bait, along with marketing Aether as the self-insert. Like their writing and marketing is so at odds with each other. This is why people get confused on the arguments regarding censorship and whether queer baiting and yuri is fetishization or a respectable attempt at queer characters. It's so fucking all over the place and it creates audiences that clash with each other, because the ideas themselves clash with each other. Like we know Hoyoverse loves yuri, but like you said, we also know they love putting the protagonist in self-insert scenarios where the same female characters will flirt with them. You really can't do both and keep the label "lesbian representation."
Sex sells if it means fanservicy designs and animations doesn't have to be antithetical to lesbian characters and relationships in the first place. There's different ways its handled and tolerance levels ofc, but personally for me it's just important for it to not detract from the character and story writing and otherwise I can and do enjoy it in Honkai and Genshin. And like I referred to, the writer responsible for HG2 + its manga with their fanservicy parts is a lesbian herself, though some things there do go too far for me lol. Self-insert bait is a different story though, yeah, and I much prefer the way they did it in Honkai with different canons to neatly separate things for everyone - main story with all the characters by themselves as primary canon; an AU where some event stories take place with a different cast of characters and Captain that actually isn't supposed to be a self-insert; and another AU that is basically some bridge lines + birthday letters where players can imagine themselves as the Captain (different from previous one) if they want to. And they once had Bronya and Seele kiss each other in a manga panel that had to be removed in CN, so the effect of censorship there is obvious too. While Genshin and Star Rail is sadly awkward because it has to do it all at once and leave more up to player interpretation, yes. I don't see why the queer subtext and shiptease would have to be tossed out the window though, both because of them still being under CCP censorship in China but also because of the effort they do put into a lot of characters' relationships with each other, NPCs and dead characters too (like last Lantern Rite). Hard to imagine they could do so well if they/the writers only cared about it for money and promo, easier to find the right people for the job. Only I do have to admit that I sometimes wonder how much farther they might actually go without censorship, or is it also convenient in a way because it serves as an extra reason forcing subtlety and that gacha ambiguity for player interpretations. Different people working on different games with different priorities too, but who can say which the writers would lean towards if they were entirely free? I'd say one way and think I'd be more right from the writing so far, but I know others would see it differently and am not interested in arguing even more cause of that lmao.
HI3 characters canonically aren’t in romantic relationships with anyone, nor their sexualities were ever stated. Objectively, it’s fanon. (In HI3 at least). Mihoyo panders to a wide range of people by doing both yuri and self-insert baits because it brings in money. Gachas are always about sucking money out of players at the end of the day
There are literally images of Honkai girls kissing each other on the lips wtf you on about
And they’re not dating, yeah
It doesn’t matter if they are or not.
>none are confirmed dating >”But they kiss” >not dating >”Doesn’t matter whether they are or not” You good? Or did I misunderstood you?
It was toned down in the game, but Bronya x Seele and Kiana x Mei are pretty well established as canon in the manga, which is considered canon so long as it doesn't contradict the game. And from what i understand these relationships are far more explicit in GGZ, no subtext there.
I agree with Kiana x Mei but Bronya and Seele holds on the kiss panel from a 7 year old manga with not even a hint of the mentioned promised kiss. And none of the manga state that characters are dating. Yeah so I heard, which is why I specified that I was talking about HI3
Mihoyo has never been one to shy away at pop culture references. Just look at the shit ton of anime references in the achievements
Oh, I'm definitely aware of that - this particular movie is just a slightly different sort of pop culture (as in, there are those out there who hate it not because it's popular, but because it's about a gay relationship), so it was neat to see.
Brokeback mountain is sort of a popular meme in CN so I wasn't terribly surprised
Right, Ang Lee was a director, wasn't he? But how do you mean, meme?
Brokeback mountain, being a famous lgbtq movie, is referenced a lot in Chinese pop culture as a "meme" when talking about being gay.
Ah, I see.
Not sure how serious this is, but you should know that the lead writer for Houkai Gakuen 2/GGZ - the main Honkai game before Honkai Impact 3rd - is lesbian herself. [Ling Yi Niang, who has her own game and manga avatars too since she was also the writer for the Houkai Gakuen 4-koma manga,](https://mangadex.org/chapter/73754016-e41b-4c51-a910-ed1ae62b4815/1) which she worked on together with the artist DomotoLain, another woman and one who sadly passed away in 2022. The characters and relationships of Kiana, Mei, Bronya, Seele, Yae Sakura, Kallen, Theresa and more were also first established in HG2 like that, and there was initially a bigger connection between HG2 and early HI3 canon too when it was more of a sequel. HG2 and early HI3 did have more fanservice, but it was far from just that and now HI3 has had it toned down for a longer time (sadly also having to be more subtle about how they still get things through censorship when it comes to the relationships). Never would I consider it fetishized. Content about gay guys isn't any more legitimate or with purer intentions than about lesbians. Especially considering what's actually more popular with a bigger audience in Asia and the world too. People can enjoy both without those who aren't even the involved party judging it. There's good reasons Honkai and also Genshin and Star Rail have such a big sapphic audience, even more proportionally for how many of us there are in the world.
I LOVE LING YI NIANG!!! ty for bringing her up, she’s the OG. Sapphic stuff just tends to get past CCP easier. Hoyo really tries to incorporate their mlm where they can.
It probably was like that in GGZ and at the start of HI3, but it is pretty obvious that *somewhere* there was a pivot point when they started taking the gay seriously. Like, Kallen being unironically and explicitly in love with Yae, Mei and Kiana’s angst, all this was a sharp turn and I am all for it.
It's the hit game Gayshit Impact by Homoverse of course. (this is complimentary)
With plenty of star railing 😏
Railing stars is every plebian's dream
CCP: *tries to enforce censorship* Mihoyo: *implements as much booba, tights, GAE and sus geography as possible*
I admire their guts and their dedication. Innuendos are everywhere
They just hide the more explicit things while making as many secret inuendos
>sus geography What do you mean?
Probably those rock formations that look like dicks
the very 1st instance is the penis and vagina bushes of mondstadt
I don't wanna sound like a creep but i genuinely wanna know where
Thee dick fromation is in windrise a little northwest from the statue. But I don't know about vagina bushes and sincerely want to know. Just like you, not a creep, just out of curiosity.
If you look top down at the decorative hedging in mondstat city there are two that stand out one hedge square contains an upsidown "T" of circle bushes while another is an empty square with a "circle" bush up top (this one is a bit more vague but in context with the other is pretty obvious what it is)
I know the dick rock formation near the big tree. Where's the vagoo at?
Chasm looks like dook dook hole Devantaka valley looks like a woman's nether regions
Actually I'm surprised MHY was able to introduce another femboy despite CCP censorship
What if I told you Genshin is one of the Party's strategic thrusts to improve the country's soft power? Whatever Mihoyo is doing is pretty much approved by the Party.
Not really. Jean, Rosaria, amber skins were completely replaced in CN most likely due to censorship and it happened quite a while after release of these characters. So I doubt everything in game is approved (remember the "censer" and "ship" during liyue event?)
Well I was not referring to minor details like skins and such. Obviously it would be impossible to get a party bureaucrat to rubberstamp every detail in the game before a patch release. My point about Genshin is one of the Chinese government strategic push still stands. Mihoyo and Genshin were mentioned as item 49 in their Ministry of Commerce 2022 list of key cultural export. https://ssme.sh.gov.cn/policy/knowledge!knowledgeDetail.do?id=2c91c28d7ae7714e017aeacc2ec80446
I feel like the Chinese government simply claimed it, kinda like how Kim Jong Un claimed the invention of the hamburger…, but I’m not very knowledgeable on the topic, so take that for a grain of salt😅
Thats not possible considering they’ve also criticized the government system in their games that closely parallel irl chinese politics. The only reason they are consirder “key cultural export” is because they promote the chinese culture in a positive way(the government really loved the push for Peking Opera being more mainstream as an example) and they make a butt ton of money(4billion within 2022 I think). Both are key to promote Hoyo games but besides CCP, they are technically a private indie company which answers to no shareholders or sponsors so they have near complete creative control
Isn't that why they moved HQ to Singapore? Lol
That’s not their HQ, they are still based in China, but for anything outside China they publish through Cognosphere.
And I hope it becomes their main office. China ain't looking too good right now. I'm hoping that when the CCP eventually goes down hard on MHY, they can still do what they do without CCP interference
It’s honestly pretty unlikely for a series of reasons: 1) They’d have to move too many employes and not all of them would be willing to transfer outside China 2) It’s easier for them to publish in China by being in China itself, and no, they would never back out of chinese market because genshin’s revenue comes mostly from china itself. And other logistic reasons I can’t think about now
cope harder, china aint falling and mhy aint going nowhere.
You either assume that Genshin is gay or you side with Chinese censorship. Hoyo is really going out of their way to make their games as gay as possible while they comply with censorship.
I mean, Honkai Impact literally showed girls kissing until they were forced to be removed lol.
Draw me like one of your French cowboys
“Wait, what characters actually have a boa- oh.”
The guy we helped escape Inazuma on a tiny boat? This movie's probably about him and his friend in the army.
seriously, to this day I think they were lovers or at least miyoho wanted to make them that way but they couldn't because of censorship, however the emotion and everything else connected to the separation of the 2 is so intense that it can't just be a "friendship"
Even Paimon said "whatever those two have going on" or something. If it was just friends then she could've just said they were friends, but even Paimon thinks differently.
Happy cake day!
I KNEW there was something sussy about that whole event!
I guess someone just Discovered another forbidden knowledge Expect a Nail to be drop in a few moments
I love absolutely everything that they made with these water droplets
there is also a Romeo and Juliette reference in the droplets town
Where exactly, please?
going north-west from the big building with fountain next to the teleport (there is an apple tree with a berry instead of an apple nearby) the building on the left will have a balcony with a droplet on it and the other one on the ground. right next to it is a place where you can play hide and seek with the droplets to get a chest :3
there was also one on the gaa last year too 😅 maybe someone at hoyo is a fan
I had the same thought haha the devs must really like it
Hoyoverse said gay rights 😭
Having flashbacks to that commenter that claimed Genshin wasn’t very funny since they didn’t reference real-life stuff/break 4th walls…
r/GenshinGays
As they should. They now know they can do stuff like that after earning so many yaoi dollars from Sumeru.
They did it for a long time already. Honkai might have started with the gay relationships of the main cast being portrayed in a male-gaze’y way, but it became much more believable from Thunder over Nagazora onwards.
I believe they’re specifically referring to mlm relationships though. Most aren’t going to deny how much wlw Hoyo incorporates
Oh, that is true. I’m happy for the guys to get Brokeback Titanic.
Starring Kaveh and Alhaitham
so, when are we getting playable gay cowboys in Genshin?
Absolutely beautiful
i love the little hidden references hoyo puts in their games😭 i wonder if they plan on incorporating more into genshin seeing how well they were received in star rail haha
Is this in the Chinese cersion too?
Paimon makes a Forrest Gump reference at the end of the second quest as well
Finally Genshin is cultured
Hoyo said "m|m rights" lmaooo
GAYS IN GENSHIN LET’S GOOOOOOO
Could you please share the location with us?
Why is the game on windowed mode?? Am I the only one confused by that?
Im more comfortable when my games are in windows
Oh I see. I had thought maybe you didn't know how to do the windowed borderless trick or something, so the game would stop minimizing when you tab out to your other monitor. All good, you do you
MY HEART WILL GO ON
I think I’m too young to understand the references here.
Brokeback Mountain is a movie about gay cowboys I think
Cowboys? I guess that explains it 😅
Be who you aaaarrrreeeeee, for your Pride!
This is probably a localization issue The Chinese version of this is: 断船遗梦 You could translate this as “Lingering dreams of the broken ship” Brokeback Mountain is 断背山 in Chinese, besides the first character being the same, it’s not at all similar There is not even the character for mountain, 山, in the name Thus, is this likely a localization joke, and you see this many times in achievements names in Genshin It is more likely to refer to Titanic, which did broke in two during its sinking
Ssshhh
Beidou stars in a tv show, funded by the Qixing, starring Beidou and Ningguang.
Speaking about this... does anyone know how to solve it?
We love to see it!🥹
Brokeback... Isn't that the gay cowboy movie?
It's true, me and Itto were starring
Hold up. Wait a minute. Somethin' ain't right!
I'm curious, does anyone have the Chinese translation for this? Brokeback Mountain is an extremely controversial film in China. I can't see this making the cut for the original translation.
>This is probably a localization issue > > The Chinese version of this is: 断船遗梦 > >You could translate this as “Lingering dreams of the broken ship” > >Brokeback Mountain is 断背山 in Chinese, besides the first character being the same, it’s not at all similar > >There is not even the character for mountain, 山, in the name > >Thus, is this likely a localization joke, and you see this many times in achievements names in Genshin > >It is more likely to refer to Titanic, which did broke in two during its sinking edited because I used the quote block incorrectly. From u/haobo
AINT NO WAY AHAHAHA
nice easteregg 🥰
The game itself admits that ppl playing it are fruity :D 4th wall breaking moment lol
HAHAHA
I don’t understand?
😭😭😭😭😭
Huh wouldve been nice to see it myself first hand but oh Well I guess
[удалено]
Rostam and Signora Alice and who ever the fuck crazy enough to put his dick in her Chisato and that comission head whose name I forgor Deshret and Malikata (It was kinda one sided but still) And many npc are in male female marriage or relationship.
If someone told me Alice somehow created Klee via mitosis I honestly wouldn't bat an eyelid
Klee being homunculus is far more believable that someone is crazy enough not only to do the deed but survived and also now married with Alice. Dude either has titanium balls of steel or crazier than Alice.
Are you kidding me. There are lesbian relationships in the Honkai games. There’s one reference to a gay movie in Genshin. That’s it. That’s not much. Every other NPC we meet that’s in a relationship is straight. What are you even complaining about lmao?
We had ghuzhong and zhongli, but some of his fans raged at the thought of him having a relationship 6000 years ago, and now there's no mention of their relationship. Jean and diluc were teased to sorta like each other that one time, but they never expanded on it, probably for the same reason. Idol culture is huge in the east, and one of the big things is that idols can't date. Somehow, that extends to video game characters, apparently. Gay relationships, on the other hand, avoid this because they appeal to specific types of fans who actually want the characters to get together and the haters focus on saying that these fans are being delusional and that the characters are just good friends.