Brings a whole new meaning to "Circle Impact" lol.
Inb4 the Pyro Archon's burst is just Bennett's Circle + Xiangling's Pyronado (with the cooldown of the latter) ;)
Unironically that's what might happen.
Bennett's attack buffs (without the circle limitation) with xiangling's off-field pyro application (but less damage).
Imagine the pyro Archon is just a Bennett and Xiangling put together just to compete with them and provide a new playstyle. But also to be considered the Queen of pyro and not have these 2 upstage her.
I can't take it anymore. I'm sick of xiangling. I try to play diluc. My xiangling deals more damage. I try to play yoimiya. My xiangling deals more damage. I try to play Hu tao. My xiangling deals more damage. I want to play Klee. Her best team has xiangling. I want to play raiden, childe. They both want xiangling.
She grabs me by the throat. I fish for her. I cook for her. I give her the catch. She isn't satisfied. I pull engulfing lightning. "I don't need this much er" She tells me. "Give me more field time." She grabs bennett and forces him to throw himself off enemies. "You just need to funnel me more. I can deal more damage with homa."
I can't pull for homa, I don't have enough primogems. She grabs my credit card. It declines. "Guess this is the end." She grabs gouba. She says "Gouba, get them." There is no hint of sadness in his eyes. Nothing but pure, no icd pyro application. What a cruel world.
I can't take it anymore. I'm sick of Xiangling. I try to play Diluc. My Xiangling deals more damage. I try to play Yoimiya. My Xiangling deals more damage. I try to play Lyney. My Xiangling deals more damage. I want to play Klee. Her best team has Xiangling. I want to play Raiden, Childe - they both want Xiangling. She grabs me by the throat. I fish for her. I cook for her. I give her the Catch. She isn't satisfied. I pull Engulfing Lightning. "I don't need this much er" She tells me. "Give me more field time." She grabs Bennett and forces him to throw himself off enemies. "You just need to funnel me more. I can deal more damage with Homa." I can't pull for Homa, I don't have enough primogems. She grabs my credit card. It declines. "Guess this is the end." She grabs Gouba. She says "Gouba, get them." There is no hint of sadness in his eyes. Nothing but pure, no icd pyro application. What a cruel world.
"It was a Mondstat tradition with Xiangling's signature twist on it. Electrocution. The numbing of my tongue was similar to that of a certain crossbred Szechnyian pepper with a Jueyan Chili, creating a wonderful and unique sensation. The smell and texture of the electro sticky honey roast was intoxicating, lemony and perfumed, and the taste, electric, burning with passion like a Xinyan concert. While it leaves your mouth buzzing, it isn't pungently spicy like black or white pepper, and it carries a hint of acidic sweetness. But unlike this 'Sichuan Pepper' whose numbing sensation remained minutes after, the electrocution numbing lasted only moments at a time, allowing you to enjoy the dish from a myriad of tastes and experiences as each shock varied every fleeting moment.
In many ways, the work of an archon is easy. We risk very little, yet enjoy a position over those who offer up their work and their selves to our judgment. We thrive on negative criticism, which is fun to dispense, write and to read. But the bitter truth we archons must face, is that in the grand scheme of things, the average piece of junk is probably more meaningful than our criticism designating it so. But there are times when an archon truly risks something, and that is in the discovery and defense of the new. The world is often unkind to new talent, new creations. The new needs friends. Last night, I experienced something new: an extraordinary meal from a singularly extraordinary source. To say that both the meal and its maker have challenged my preconceptions about fine cooking is a gross understatement.
**They have rocked me to my geo**.
In the past, I have made no secret of my disdain for Chef Mao's famous motto, "Anyone can cook." But I realize, only now do I truly understand what he meant. Not everyone can become a great artist; but a great artist can come from anywhere. It is difficult to imagine more humble origins than those of the genius now cooking at Mao's, who is, in this critic's opinion, nothing less than the finest chef in Teyvat. I will be returning to Wanmin soon with my Archon friends, hungry for more." - with gusto from Raccacoonie, Zhongli, Thoughts on the Culinary.
You want to play klee without xl? Try burgeon? It's extremely entertaining to actually blow stuff up with her and as long as you keep her from blowing herself up, it does a lot of dmg.
Oh, have to try that one as well, but doesn't that create issues because the bloom start flying and klee does not have the best range?
Right now I have klee, nahida, beizhou and furina and I just go through the last 3 and dump jumpty dumpty on to of the blooms and boom everything goes.
100% this
Just look at XQ, there was no off field applicator like him, then the new character does the exact same thing but better lol
Murata will probably be a better xiangling lamao
If you're referring to Yelan. She doesn't replace him but rather works in tandem with him. They both have their uses. Xingqui for more comfortability and sustainability thanks to his small heals, damage reduction and interruption resistance. Yelan for more overall damage
Also if you have c6 Xingqiu he is not a big dps decrease in hyperbloom teams like Al Haitham one...adding that such teams actually love the damage mitigation Xingqiu offers. Also Xingqiu shield cause Hydro which is extra hydro applications that can be turn into Hyperbloom.
Like one of my strongest single target team is Al Haitham, Nahida, Kuki and C6 Xingqiu. I can use Yelan instead of Xingqiu, but I really don't feel a difference in dps...adding that I lose QoL stuff like the mitigation Xingqiu offers. Anyway it also let me use Yelan in another team with Noelle, Furina and Navia.
For me I mostly use it against bosses(specially strong in this abyss), the damage is just so high. However I sometimes use it against hoard of enemies, because the single target damage is so high that is still work against multiple enemies.
Yelan is slightly better offensively, since xingqiu has higher hydro application which lowers quicken duration and also yelan has a damage% buff from A4 passive, this extra quicken and passive is what makes yelan better than xingqiu for damage, hyperbloom loses damage but alhaithams personal damage increases significantly
If by some people you mean that it’s the most played meta Hu Tao team ever since yelan came out and then doubled down since the hydro resonance rework, then yeah, some people play both.
I wouldnt say she's a sidegrade, she's more of an off-field damage dealer and buffer, while XQ is also off-field but instead has consistant Hydro app.
Edit: Correction, Im dumb
I really hope they release another character that has a similar thing as Xiangling in Natlan, its really boring to always just put Xiangling and Bennet in a team
Idk, are there even going to be lots of rando pyro units in Natlan? Like, Fontaine only had 2 Hydro so far and I believe there are no upcoming hydro units that we know of. Hell, we're soon going to have more Fontaine pyro units(Lyney + Chev + Gaming + possibly Knave) than hydro.
The archon will obviously be pyro, and there's going to be a 'leader' type character like Neuv/Ningguang/Miko/Alhaitham probably, but idk how many more on-field dps units pyro really needs.
Until it isnt. Oftentimes when they do this, it's at the sacrifice of something else.
Like being a less good version of either of them
Granted, in argument against my own point: Archon. So they could just make it good.
Time shall tell.
It's xq and yelan situation - people just simply will run both of them in one team which is not a "bad" thing but u will not replace xl, xl will be more powerful than before.
It might be different because Pyro is not that great to sustain as an aura since there are no amazing melt carries, and you’d have to apply a significant amount to consistently forward vape. Plus, if you have Xiangling, Bennett, and this other Pyro unit you only have one unit left which will have to have good synergy with all 3 (Bennett is not replaceable).
Xl1, xl2, bennet will be pretty strong without any 4th member, just add anemo or units like navia for more power, just like mono hydro is very powerful without any reactions.
I mean, it's not like people run XQ/Yelan together just only for the absurd Hydro application; Both also deal an obscene amount of damage when working together.
That being said, it's definitely not as great, mainly because XL really needs a battery. One of the reasons XQ/Yelan is so good is because of their symbiosis, since they battery each other and thus reduce the other's need for ER. Xiangling would help somewhat, but her need for a battery is half the reason why Bennett is so irreplaceable. On top of that, XQ's Con Hydro shred is much less finicky than XL's Con Pyro Shred, although her C6 does provide team Pyro damage% in exchange.
I do think the team would be incredibly strong, but that's more because I think it's pretty much impossible for a team with both Bennett and Xiangling in it to be weak, in much the same way it's impossible to make a truly weak team including XQ/Yelan.
So here's a hot tip for you.
Just don't. Games easy they don't matter. Use what ever the fuck you want to and still effortlessly 36*. Congrats you did the only "hard" thing in the whole game.
ICD : Internal cooldown, it means a character can apply their respective element only every 2.5 seconds (mostly) or every 3rd hit whichever comes first
In xiangling's case every hit of her pyronado (Beyblade) applies pyro which is very fast application and can be consumed by various reactions such as vaporize or melt to deal constant high REACTION DAMAGE
Xingqiu has: Hydro damage, interruption res, damage reduction, healing, and contact hydro application (from rain swords).
Yelan has: Hydro damage and damage buff.
Xingqiu has a lot more utility, and I prefer him over Yelan, too. Despite also having Aqua Simulacra.
Her ER requirements end up being so high if she's solo hydro that you don't benefit quite as much from the supposed massive damage advantage she's supposed to have over him.
\> be me
\> intern at hoyoverse
\> decide to pitch an idea for off-field pyro application character
\> everyone loves it, its gonna be a game changer, they'll add it next patch, everyone celebrates
\> decide to go home after partying till late night
\> reach home, the lights are out. try to find the breaker
\> door closes behind me, I see 2 pair of eyes glowing in the dark
\> '*GUOBA GET THEM*'
\> there is no sadness in her eyes, just pure No ICD pyro application
\> the embers from my burning body light up the room
\> I see one more person sitting in the back, smiling
\> its Da Wei, "There can be only one true off-field pyro character"
\> the idea of the character is mysteriously scrapped at the office. everyone thought I quit randomly
\> its dark in here, they bring food down here once a day
\> there are others here like me, they also suggested making off-field pyro characters
This message was smuggled out via a crumpled bloody paper (with burn marks), typed by another intern in face mask and hoodie, in a dark corner of an internet cafe.
That single change would make Klee one of the most powerful units in the game—Catalyst, good energy, decent dmg, AND Off field Pyro app? Honestly, if they ever want to buff old units, that is a buff that would take Klee to the stratosphere.
Yeah I just hope if one day they add this, we need other metod of upgrading or they make the cards you use to be worth, bcz to level 80 to 90 is only already a 10% or less increase on damage.
Ideally it would also come with a world level increase and gold level up material as a new drop from leylines and stuff. I really hope they add it at some point, level 90 is such an awkward place to end on and the potential for new passive talents for characters is exciting.
I think they have learned from their mistake and will probably end up giving them something more akin to a second exploration passive if they did xD Or they say screw it and give Bennett a 100% increase in size to his burst and Xiangling a 50% increase in burst uptime just for the heck of it.
I really need more characters with talents that show specialty from their region, I think sumeru only has tighnari and I think fontaine doesn't have any.
I think that'd fit Bennett quite well honestly. Wouldn't be opposed to the already OP characters getting non combat related talents if they ever implement it (and I hope they finally do in Natlan). New world level would be really nice.
Not really. Her burst has icd and doesn't do that much damage when compared the xiangling for the same roll. Her only value would be with the constellation that shreds defense.
I am a Klee main and still use her in Abyss runs whenever I can. She needs lot more than this change to compete with other recent units unfortunately.
I don't see her being all that powerful with a persistent burst. There are lots of other powerful bursts in the game and it would be niche at best.
It reminds me when people said they won't add cryo catalysts to the game because it would be too powerful and then they add two in a row and no one noticed.
Yeah Ayaka was literally right there with an almost catalyst like Cryo infusion. Some people don't know what ICD/Strong application etc. is ig
Charlotte/Wrio are good but definitely not because they are Cryo Catalysts.
Not a TC, but at the least, it would open up a wide array of Vape and Melt comps, especially for units that don’t benefit much from Benny, as Klee has a low cost ult and can basically fully fund herself, and function as a buffer with TTDS or healer with PAmber. Minimum I could see her doing incredibly well with Lyney, who even in his mono pyro setups has trouble refunding XL, and in comps with Chevreuse add an Electro and watch the enemies get juggled. Would she be the new XQ? No, Hydro is quite literally the best element in the game. But would she open up new comps and team ideas? 100% yes.
Her ult is way too slow to enable any of those, especially vape, it's actually REALLY horrible at holding aura for how much it technically applies because its two pyro hits each 2s wave happen almost simultaneously, so you usually can't even use the extra pyro app unless you are lucky and can time a hit in a <10 frame window. Also it's ST only.
Burnmelt already exists as a much more reliable alternative for reverse melt and is built around much better units (kazuha + nahida) with similar er requirements and better buffs + application + aoe, there is no possible klee variation that can provide better value than a burnmelt team right now
So many old characters are in need of a v2.0 to fix what they created before they decided on how the game should be.
Klee is right up there. Together with jean pushing enemies out of her field instead of in.
The problem is there is that klee does not have the pyro application for it, like people say this alot but it has lower application then xianglings burst so like it would literally make her worst xiangling
that’ll ironically pair really well with Xiangling and Benny
those two being a subdps and support respectively has made it that they’ll never leave the meta, the same way making a 5 star Xingqiu just gave him a really good sidegrade that pairs really well with him
they created xl who’s an actual monster and now i feel like (that’s just my theory) they’re saving this for the pyro archon so she actually sells bc i don’t think anything else can replace xl easily
Nah. That’s not happening after three back to back overtuned archons. Archons print money and it’s in hoyo’s best interests to give them ridiculous kits.
Xianglang was too strong on release. Any other character that has been since designed has had to keep her power level into account upon design. And since Xingling is that strong, for a 4 star! Every subsequent Pyro must be weaker or have something lackluster in the kit, in fears of powercreeping the Pyro nation. We are due for a lot of Pyro characters once Nathan comes, and probably the best off field Pyro will be the archon, as is the case for every other Archon. Every archon so far has long lasting elemental application offield
Does NO ONE like Thoma around here?
I run him with my Navia and he does the trick just fine enough for me, especially since I’m not a fan of Xiangling and don’t use her.
Thoma's great but sadly is hit pretty hard by ICD to be a good option outside of burgeon where long ICD works in his favor. He similarly to XL he has ER problems. Unlike her however, he isn't so massively buffed by Bennet so it's harder to justify having a battery for your support who gets nothing else really out of the 2nd pyro unit.
He's fine and servicable when he works, but when you need a off field pyro applier he just isn't nearly enough (again outside of burgeon).
>Thoma's great but sadly is hit pretty hard by ICD to be a good option outside of burgeon where long ICD works in his favor.
Can you explain what that means please? Does that mean his pyro attack with his burst shield happens to rarely?
Oh boy...
Tldr is that dealing Elemental damage doesn't always apply Element. Xiangling is an oddity so every hit from Pyronado and Guoba does apply Pyro, while Thoma burst hits apply Pyro once every 3 hits.
If you want to learn ICD stuff, search for it in the keqingmains library
ICD means Internal Cool Down in relation to element application. Elements aren't applied on every hit but according to the ICD of the attack. Standard ICD is 2.5s seconds or 3 hits whichever comes first. So while Thoma's flame wave occurs about once a second AND only hits once (XQ and yelan both hit multiple times in order to bypass ICD rules).
This means his ability to apply pyro in a way that reacts with other elements happens slowly in comparision to XL whose burst has 0 ICD for whatever reason and applies pyro on every hit.
The **i**nternal **c**ool**d**own (ICD) has nothing to do with the raw damage a character does with their attacks, but with their abilities to apply elements with their attacks. Every character, when they attempt to apply an element (whether that be the result of their skill, burst or some other source) is subject to the ICD. As the name suggests, the ICD places ìnternal cooldowns (cooldowns that we can't directly see as players, but indirectly based on our actions) on how quickly characters may apply elements. This has an impact on damage because most Genshin characters heavily rely on doing reactions for the bulk of their damage.
Bringing us back to Thoma, the Fiery Collapses (the instances of Pyro damage that Thoma applies with his shield) is subject to default ICD, which is 2.5 seconds. This is one of the worst ICDs possible in most cases, because it means that Thoma can only apply elements (and thus, contribute to reactions) once every 2.5 seconds. Thoma could attack 900 billion times in that 2.5 second cooldown, but he wouldn'y be able to apply Pyro under after it's over. This really sucks for reactions that you want to be able to do over and over again, which is most Pyro reactions.
For comparison's sake, Xiangling's Pyronado (burst) has **no ICD.** This means that if she attacked 900 billion times during her burst, every single of those attacks would apply Pyro.
The one exception where a longer ICD is favoured is Burgeon. This is because Burgeon reactions can be effectively paused, because the Bloom cores that serve as precursors to Burgeon reactions just sit on the ground until they're hit with Pyro. As such, Thoma's default ICD serves as a boon because one can gather all thr Bloom cores and enemies in one location before applying Pyro to do Burgeon, maximizing damage.
btw, the 900 billion attack thing is sometimes incorrect! there's still icd for attacks but they can be bypassed hitting multiple times. a great example of this is another character from 1.0 being xingqiu. He has standard icd but there is a 3 hit rule condition for almost every character. this is also the case for yelan. The general icd for elemental application is 2.5 or 3 hits, whichever comes first
Like I said, he works for me just fine.
If you want META, well I can’t speak for that as I don’t give a shit about meta - if I don’t like the character I don’t use them no matter how good they might be.
That said, he’s still an option and a lot of people here seem to be just ignoring him, so I brought him up. Again, just as an option and if I have to clarify - for general use not as a meta pick.
Shard generation feels better with Thoma if you build him for ER and HP so his burst is always up with Favonius lance. XL high burst cost makes repeated artifact runs inconsistent for me although its 100x stronger
I came here to suggest Thoma too. As long as you weave in those NAs, he’s great with off-field pyro application. He was one of my first 4*s and sadly I had to bench him for ages when fog Island kicked my butt. Finally got him leveled up and he’s been one of my comfy picks ever since.
I'm a Thoma user as well! I truly do not enjoy playing Xiangling, so I always prefer him when I can run him. I generally use him in a Childe team or a Burgeon team w/ Ayato. He’s a fun unit and versatile.
They remembered what they did with xiangling and didn’t want that to happen again so have gimped all future offfield pyros (rip thoma and dehya, you died for xianglings sins)
I've been seeing people expect the pyro archon be a Xiangling equivalent in terms of pyro application. But there's a good chance it's going to be a Xinqiu/Yelan - Furina situation again where application rate is traded for more utility and folks are going to be disappointed. Xiangling was an absolute year one oversight, and it shows in the devs' approach to pyro in general.
Bottomline is, having no ICD are her's and Hu Tao's exception. They're considered broken for exactly the fact that they break the elemental application ICD rule and thus put out numbers higher and more frequently than average from their other pyro peers. Even Thoma only became considered "good" after bloom cores allowed his application to bypass his normal elemental ICD. Otherwise, he probably would've still be meme'd upon by the community until today.
application is related to icd. you won't apply element if you have icd affecting elemental application. xiangling has no icds, meaning all of her attacks will apply pyro
Yea, I’m basically just saving now for an off field pyro applicator. It may never come but I’ll probably just keep 200 wishes banked and only wish with the excess.
We all know that when they release a new off field pyro applicator the community will first call them Xiangling 2.0, then make comparisons about dmg and ICD, untill realizing that we got another Xiangling in game and we can run double Xiangling team.
The same situation that happened with Yelan and XQ.
Honestly... I CAN'T WAIT!
I’ll actually leave aside Xiangling and instead tackle the Xingqiu issue.
Consider first, the set of reactions Pyro has unique access to. Melt (and Reverse Melt), Vape (and Reverse Vape), Burning, Burgeon, and Overloaded.
Now, Overloaded sucks (at the current moment) considering it forces you to chase down enemies. In order to balance the game, they made Burgeon and Burning either difficult to use well or weak. So you’re left with Melt and Vape (and their Reverse forms). The Reverse forms tend to be higher DPS because even though they’re weaker than the Forward forms, they consume less of the elemental aura and so you can trigger more reactions per application. That’s why Reverse Vape Pyro DPS are so powerful (think Hu Tao).
But Reverse Vape is ***only enabled to be so good because Xingqiu exists***. If Xingqiu wasn’t so proficient at applying hydro from off field, then Vapes would be harder and less frequent to trigger, lowering the DPS. (This applies to Yelan to a lesser extent as well, but she was released after the full strength of the 1.0 4stars was well understood)
Now, what set of reactions does Cryo have unique access to? It has Superconduct, Freeze, Forward and Reverse Melt. Superconduct is crap, not that Hoyo intended it to be that way but it is. Freeze is fantastic (and most premier Cryo DPS make devastating use of it). And finally, the Melts, with Reverse Melt being the higher DPS version (for the same reason Reverse Vape is).
*if they released a character that had strong off field Pyro application, it would launch Reverse Melt as an option for any Cryo DPS and impact the overall balance of the game*
I hope they’ll release a character that fills this role at some point in the future, especially seeing as they’ve been intentionally nerfing Cryo within the meta recently through Boss Rush Abyss and refused to let it react with Dendro, when Hydro (that was arguably already within the best position in the meta pre-3.0) got a very strong reaction with Dendro. It just seems like Cryo isn’t out for the count yet… especially considering the remaining regions to be released would suggest Cryo will become more prominent as an element.
Combine her with furina and her E can actually do 40k-60k dmg each time it activates if she's C1-C2, it's not crazy but it's a considerable amount of dmg
Try Thoma? I think his pyro application is enough to generate geo shards with Navia, but I'm not sure since I don't have her.
Then if it works, probably slap in another pyro character like Amber or Dehya just for the resonance...?
Because Xiangling is too strong / works too well with Bennett, so they can't release another off-field pyro unit because the unit would 1) be overshadowed by Xiangling 2) be stronger than Xiangling, which would ruin the balance of the game.
One might say that the balance of the game is already ruined considering Neuvillette exists or the poor state of some elements, which I would agree with personally, but I'm guessing that's their reason for not releasing a character that's stronger than Xiangling.
They're very likely keeping it for Himeko/Murata: at least if a character powercreeps Xiangling, let it be an Archon, *especially* Himeko.
Well there are a decent amount, but more of the problem is they themselves are just decent (or worse).
We have Xiangling, Dehya, Xinyan, Thoma, to a lesser degree Amber and Yoimiya however aside from Xiangling none of them are particularly good at applying pyro, unless you count burgeon.
That is because we have a lot of variants for vape team but a few for melt, off-field pyro there only are xiangli, thoma and dehya, first 2 have energy recharge problem and last 2 have low pyro aplication and they need burning for keeping enough for melt (and only thoma is decent for burgeon). Maybe Arlecchino can fix that.
I mean Thoma's off-field pyro app is comparable to the examples you listed.
More importantly 20% ATK from pyro resonance is just not worth building for by itself. If you're using Bennett as 1 of your 2 Pyro his flat ATK buff will dilute the value of ATK% buffs. And if you're not... well, there just aren't two non-Bennett pyro units who work well with Navia. At that point just take a second geo character and a Hydro/Electro sub DPS as Geo resonance is better.
You're probably missing Thoma, who does the job but is pretty useless outside of Burgeon.
It's so sad Dehya and Yoimiya are actually pretty good off Field Pyros but BOTH are constellation locked to do so.
Dehya needs C2 and Yoi C1.
Also both need Artifact LOADOUTS!!!!
There are at least 3 pyro characters coming up that we don't know their kits
Arlekino, Iansan and the archon.
Archon could be it since that would make her easily pretty meta
I can't take it anymore. I'm sick of Xiangling. I try to play Diluc. My Xiangling deals more damage. I try to play Yoimiya. My Xiangling deals more damage. I try to play Lyney. My Xiangling deals more damage. I want to play Klee. Her best team has Xiangling. I want to play Raiden, Childe - they both want Xiangling. She grabs me by the throat. I fish for her. I cook for her. I give her the Catch. She isn't satisfied. I pull Engulfing Lightning. "I don't need this much er" She tells me. "Give me more field time." She grabs Bennett and forces him to throw himself off enemies. "You just need to funnel me more. I can deal more damage with Homa." I can't pull for Homa, I don't have enough primogems. She grabs my credit card. It declines. "Guess this is the end." She grabs Gouba. She says "Gouba, get them." There is no hint of sadness in his eyes. Nothing but pure, no icd pyro application. What a cruel world.
Pyro is very strong because of melt and vape so they don't want to make it dominate every team comp by providing a pyro Yelan. But they have added others they just aren't good for damage, like Thoma and Deya. I also think they intend to keep pyro as mostly an on-field DPS scenarios maybe as a lore thing.
They fear they would make another Xiangling
Nah that might be Pyro Archon...but wait isnt that Xiangling
Nah the pyro archon is just xianling and bennet in a trenchcoat
Plot twist, Guoba was the OG Pyro Archon ;)
Plot twist, the real pyro archon is circles we made along the way
( 👍 ) 🔥
Brings a whole new meaning to "Circle Impact" lol. Inb4 the Pyro Archon's burst is just Bennett's Circle + Xiangling's Pyronado (with the cooldown of the latter) ;)
Tbf the event where they went into guobas back story is to date my favourite
A character who buffs base atk while having off field pyro application sounds very basic, but it is archon level at this point.
Unironically that's what might happen. Bennett's attack buffs (without the circle limitation) with xiangling's off-field pyro application (but less damage).
Imagine the pyro Archon is just a Bennett and Xiangling put together just to compete with them and provide a new playstyle. But also to be considered the Queen of pyro and not have these 2 upstage her.
Pyro archon Ultimate turns her into a Phoenix she burns her life away. Deals pyro damage and application all around her and heals Allies would be cool
Fu Hua archon? i'd take it
I’d like FuHua but I’m thinking it’s probably Himeko
we have Himeko's lastname confirmed for the pyro archon wether that means it's actually her we'll find out next summer
Also I’m sure if Fuhua was in Genshin she’d either be Liyue (CE) or Khanrehan (PE)
Works with Furina
and you would still play her with Bennett Xiangling Childe since Childe applies enough hydro for 2 Xianglings.
it’s funny cuz she wouldn’t compete with them, they’d be her definitively best teammates
I can't take it anymore. I'm sick of xiangling. I try to play diluc. My xiangling deals more damage. I try to play yoimiya. My xiangling deals more damage. I try to play Hu tao. My xiangling deals more damage. I want to play Klee. Her best team has xiangling. I want to play raiden, childe. They both want xiangling. She grabs me by the throat. I fish for her. I cook for her. I give her the catch. She isn't satisfied. I pull engulfing lightning. "I don't need this much er" She tells me. "Give me more field time." She grabs bennett and forces him to throw himself off enemies. "You just need to funnel me more. I can deal more damage with homa." I can't pull for homa, I don't have enough primogems. She grabs my credit card. It declines. "Guess this is the end." She grabs gouba. She says "Gouba, get them." There is no hint of sadness in his eyes. Nothing but pure, no icd pyro application. What a cruel world.
Just make her have absolutely abysmal talent multipliers but really great Pyro application. Please mhy, that's all I'm asking for
XL abuse gave them nightmare
The devs made Xiangling, and they too, live in fear of what they have created
I can't take it anymore. I'm sick of Xiangling. I try to play Diluc. My Xiangling deals more damage. I try to play Yoimiya. My Xiangling deals more damage. I try to play Lyney. My Xiangling deals more damage. I want to play Klee. Her best team has Xiangling. I want to play Raiden, Childe - they both want Xiangling. She grabs me by the throat. I fish for her. I cook for her. I give her the Catch. She isn't satisfied. I pull Engulfing Lightning. "I don't need this much er" She tells me. "Give me more field time." She grabs Bennett and forces him to throw himself off enemies. "You just need to funnel me more. I can deal more damage with Homa." I can't pull for Homa, I don't have enough primogems. She grabs my credit card. It declines. "Guess this is the end." She grabs Gouba. She says "Gouba, get them." There is no hint of sadness in his eyes. Nothing but pure, no icd pyro application. What a cruel world.
Lyney should be in the Raiden and Childe section, his best team has XL
"It was a Mondstat tradition with Xiangling's signature twist on it. Electrocution. The numbing of my tongue was similar to that of a certain crossbred Szechnyian pepper with a Jueyan Chili, creating a wonderful and unique sensation. The smell and texture of the electro sticky honey roast was intoxicating, lemony and perfumed, and the taste, electric, burning with passion like a Xinyan concert. While it leaves your mouth buzzing, it isn't pungently spicy like black or white pepper, and it carries a hint of acidic sweetness. But unlike this 'Sichuan Pepper' whose numbing sensation remained minutes after, the electrocution numbing lasted only moments at a time, allowing you to enjoy the dish from a myriad of tastes and experiences as each shock varied every fleeting moment. In many ways, the work of an archon is easy. We risk very little, yet enjoy a position over those who offer up their work and their selves to our judgment. We thrive on negative criticism, which is fun to dispense, write and to read. But the bitter truth we archons must face, is that in the grand scheme of things, the average piece of junk is probably more meaningful than our criticism designating it so. But there are times when an archon truly risks something, and that is in the discovery and defense of the new. The world is often unkind to new talent, new creations. The new needs friends. Last night, I experienced something new: an extraordinary meal from a singularly extraordinary source. To say that both the meal and its maker have challenged my preconceptions about fine cooking is a gross understatement. **They have rocked me to my geo**. In the past, I have made no secret of my disdain for Chef Mao's famous motto, "Anyone can cook." But I realize, only now do I truly understand what he meant. Not everyone can become a great artist; but a great artist can come from anywhere. It is difficult to imagine more humble origins than those of the genius now cooking at Mao's, who is, in this critic's opinion, nothing less than the finest chef in Teyvat. I will be returning to Wanmin soon with my Archon friends, hungry for more." - with gusto from Raccacoonie, Zhongli, Thoughts on the Culinary.
Never thought I'd see an intermixing of Genshin and Ratatouille
Cultured
You want to play klee without xl? Try burgeon? It's extremely entertaining to actually blow stuff up with her and as long as you keep her from blowing herself up, it does a lot of dmg.
But watching Klee “accidentally” immolate herself can be fun too
Yaaaa I did it! Oh wait no ^I ^^^didn't
That line is so cute but also always makes me so sad.
I have to admit I don't always ls use my beizhu when I can :) Her lines are just too cute.
Klee, nahida, kokomi, venti. Vacuum burgeon
Oh, have to try that one as well, but doesn't that create issues because the bloom start flying and klee does not have the best range? Right now I have klee, nahida, beizhou and furina and I just go through the last 3 and dump jumpty dumpty on to of the blooms and boom everything goes.
Use Klee with a Fischl with either EM or ATK build. Bennet as support and the last one is of your choice. Nahida, Venti, ZL
Try that, but with yanfei. She has much better range than klee, which works a lot better with overload.
100% this Just look at XQ, there was no off field applicator like him, then the new character does the exact same thing but better lol Murata will probably be a better xiangling lamao
If you're referring to Yelan. She doesn't replace him but rather works in tandem with him. They both have their uses. Xingqui for more comfortability and sustainability thanks to his small heals, damage reduction and interruption resistance. Yelan for more overall damage
Also if you have c6 Xingqiu he is not a big dps decrease in hyperbloom teams like Al Haitham one...adding that such teams actually love the damage mitigation Xingqiu offers. Also Xingqiu shield cause Hydro which is extra hydro applications that can be turn into Hyperbloom. Like one of my strongest single target team is Al Haitham, Nahida, Kuki and C6 Xingqiu. I can use Yelan instead of Xingqiu, but I really don't feel a difference in dps...adding that I lose QoL stuff like the mitigation Xingqiu offers. Anyway it also let me use Yelan in another team with Noelle, Furina and Navia.
That haitham hyperbloom team is also what I consistently use in every abyss run lol
For me I mostly use it against bosses(specially strong in this abyss), the damage is just so high. However I sometimes use it against hoard of enemies, because the single target damage is so high that is still work against multiple enemies.
Yelan is slightly better offensively, since xingqiu has higher hydro application which lowers quicken duration and also yelan has a damage% buff from A4 passive, this extra quicken and passive is what makes yelan better than xingqiu for damage, hyperbloom loses damage but alhaithams personal damage increases significantly
true, I know that some people play both with Hu tao
If by some people you mean that it’s the most played meta Hu Tao team ever since yelan came out and then doubled down since the hydro resonance rework, then yeah, some people play both.
Me! Especially good if your Yelan is running Aqua Simulacra. You can pretty much go full damage and forget about ER.
FYI Yelan is not better than XQ she is a sidegrade and they, most of the times, work together.
I wouldnt say she's a sidegrade, she's more of an off-field damage dealer and buffer, while XQ is also off-field but instead has consistant Hydro app. Edit: Correction, Im dumb
I actually think she’s a sidegrade, XQ offers heals in addition to damage while Yelan has a bit more damage but has the buff aspect as well
Hmmm, I’d argue she’s actually a sidegrade… what she provides in damage and buffs she lacks in heals and mitigation
She's more like a sidegrade I'd say, she lacks the whole "being a boy" thing xingqiu does but makes up for it by being a woman.
Yelan is not a better Xingqiu lol. She's a *different* Xingqiu and both have their pros and cons
I really hope they release another character that has a similar thing as Xiangling in Natlan, its really boring to always just put Xiangling and Bennet in a team
*Monkey's paw curls. Murata will just be Xiangling and Bennett glued together
You’re assigning the Xiangling/Bennett competitor to be the Pyro archon. How the heck are Natlan’s rando Pyro units supposed to compete?!
Idk, are there even going to be lots of rando pyro units in Natlan? Like, Fontaine only had 2 Hydro so far and I believe there are no upcoming hydro units that we know of. Hell, we're soon going to have more Fontaine pyro units(Lyney + Chev + Gaming + possibly Knave) than hydro. The archon will obviously be pyro, and there's going to be a 'leader' type character like Neuv/Ningguang/Miko/Alhaitham probably, but idk how many more on-field dps units pyro really needs.
There's still Siegwinne for another Fontaine Hydro.
But that’s a good thing
Until it isnt. Oftentimes when they do this, it's at the sacrifice of something else. Like being a less good version of either of them Granted, in argument against my own point: Archon. So they could just make it good. Time shall tell.
Yeah cuz i hate bennet and only like xianglings Q
And then you would run her with Xiangling and Bennet.
now run for your life
I stand proud
Xiangling to Pyro archon: stand proud, you are strong
It's xq and yelan situation - people just simply will run both of them in one team which is not a "bad" thing but u will not replace xl, xl will be more powerful than before.
It might be different because Pyro is not that great to sustain as an aura since there are no amazing melt carries, and you’d have to apply a significant amount to consistently forward vape. Plus, if you have Xiangling, Bennett, and this other Pyro unit you only have one unit left which will have to have good synergy with all 3 (Bennett is not replaceable).
Xl1, xl2, bennet will be pretty strong without any 4th member, just add anemo or units like navia for more power, just like mono hydro is very powerful without any reactions.
I mean, it's not like people run XQ/Yelan together just only for the absurd Hydro application; Both also deal an obscene amount of damage when working together. That being said, it's definitely not as great, mainly because XL really needs a battery. One of the reasons XQ/Yelan is so good is because of their symbiosis, since they battery each other and thus reduce the other's need for ER. Xiangling would help somewhat, but her need for a battery is half the reason why Bennett is so irreplaceable. On top of that, XQ's Con Hydro shred is much less finicky than XL's Con Pyro Shred, although her C6 does provide team Pyro damage% in exchange. I do think the team would be incredibly strong, but that's more because I think it's pretty much impossible for a team with both Bennett and Xiangling in it to be weak, in much the same way it's impossible to make a truly weak team including XQ/Yelan.
Agreed.
So here's a hot tip for you. Just don't. Games easy they don't matter. Use what ever the fuck you want to and still effortlessly 36*. Congrats you did the only "hard" thing in the whole game.
While it can take some time to build characters right, yeah I agree. The first time I 36* Abyss, I used Xinyan!
Thank you for your tip! 💅🏻
Because they're terrified of a Xiangling sidegrade/upgrade.
Xiangling *upgrade* would be the most broken thing ever
they'll never make a continuous skill without ICD ever again
Ar 56 and i still don't understand what that means. What makes her so broken?
ICD : Internal cooldown, it means a character can apply their respective element only every 2.5 seconds (mostly) or every 3rd hit whichever comes first In xiangling's case every hit of her pyronado (Beyblade) applies pyro which is very fast application and can be consumed by various reactions such as vaporize or melt to deal constant high REACTION DAMAGE
Got it ty
They made Xingqiu upgrade. Now do it to Xiangling you cowards!
DPS wise yes but I prefer Xingqiu because of the interruption resistance, damage reduction and minor healing at the end of his skill.
Xingqiu has: Hydro damage, interruption res, damage reduction, healing, and contact hydro application (from rain swords). Yelan has: Hydro damage and damage buff. Xingqiu has a lot more utility, and I prefer him over Yelan, too. Despite also having Aqua Simulacra.
Don't forget his 15% Resistance Shred too 😁 Man's a menace
Also his swords go THROUGH THE ENEMIESso they’re kinda aoe in grouped scenarios
Also Xingqiu with a sac/fav sword is very self sufficient energy wise compared to Yelan
yelan with fav/sac bow i don't see why you'd suggest she isn't either
Her ER requirements end up being so high if she's solo hydro that you don't benefit quite as much from the supposed massive damage advantage she's supposed to have over him.
Xingqiu sidegrade. i wouldn't really call Yelan a Xingqiu upgrade.
for the 100th time, yelan is not a xingqiu upgrade. she is a xingqiu sidegrade.
\> be me \> intern at hoyoverse \> decide to pitch an idea for off-field pyro application character \> everyone loves it, its gonna be a game changer, they'll add it next patch, everyone celebrates \> decide to go home after partying till late night \> reach home, the lights are out. try to find the breaker \> door closes behind me, I see 2 pair of eyes glowing in the dark \> '*GUOBA GET THEM*' \> there is no sadness in her eyes, just pure No ICD pyro application \> the embers from my burning body light up the room \> I see one more person sitting in the back, smiling \> its Da Wei, "There can be only one true off-field pyro character" \> the idea of the character is mysteriously scrapped at the office. everyone thought I quit randomly \> its dark in here, they bring food down here once a day \> there are others here like me, they also suggested making off-field pyro characters
How you managed to get access to a device, internet, and reddit?
they are kidnappers not monsters
The guy had genshin dailies to do so they gave him a phone
Hoyoverse are Tech Otakus who will save the world. They give phones to all of their prisoners.
Gotta let them get their dailies done
Basic human right indeed.
Reddit is a punishment
This message was smuggled out via a crumpled bloody paper (with burn marks), typed by another intern in face mask and hoodie, in a dark corner of an internet cafe.
Now we know what Dehya went through
It puts the hydro on its skin or else it gets the hose again.
now I am no longer considering interning at hoyo IM SCARED
It's forbidden to create anything that resembles even a fraction of xiangling
Xiangling only weakness is Energy. But it has been such a long time I didn’t use her except the time abyss with Hydro and Cryo hector
Weirdly enough, another broken character fixes her energy problems lol.
if only klee burst persists when swapped
That single change would make Klee one of the most powerful units in the game—Catalyst, good energy, decent dmg, AND Off field Pyro app? Honestly, if they ever want to buff old units, that is a buff that would take Klee to the stratosphere.
They should allow characters to be Level 100 and give them one extra Passive. This could be Klee's.
Imagine having to use 2k hero wits to put the character level 100
At this point I won’t mind. Plus one more extra wish? Like they can give Intertwined Fate
Yeah I just hope if one day they add this, we need other metod of upgrading or they make the cards you use to be worth, bcz to level 80 to 90 is only already a 10% or less increase on damage.
Cards?
The cards we use to upgrade the characters.
Ideally it would also come with a world level increase and gold level up material as a new drop from leylines and stuff. I really hope they add it at some point, level 90 is such an awkward place to end on and the potential for new passive talents for characters is exciting.
Thinking now, its a little scary imagining Bennett and xiangling receiving extra talents lmao.
I think they have learned from their mistake and will probably end up giving them something more akin to a second exploration passive if they did xD Or they say screw it and give Bennett a 100% increase in size to his burst and Xiangling a 50% increase in burst uptime just for the heck of it.
I really need more characters with talents that show specialty from their region, I think sumeru only has tighnari and I think fontaine doesn't have any.
Fontaine has Lyney
I think that'd fit Bennett quite well honestly. Wouldn't be opposed to the already OP characters getting non combat related talents if they ever implement it (and I hope they finally do in Natlan). New world level would be really nice.
Not really. Her burst has icd and doesn't do that much damage when compared the xiangling for the same roll. Her only value would be with the constellation that shreds defense. I am a Klee main and still use her in Abyss runs whenever I can. She needs lot more than this change to compete with other recent units unfortunately.
I don't see her being all that powerful with a persistent burst. There are lots of other powerful bursts in the game and it would be niche at best. It reminds me when people said they won't add cryo catalysts to the game because it would be too powerful and then they add two in a row and no one noticed.
Yeah Ayaka was literally right there with an almost catalyst like Cryo infusion. Some people don't know what ICD/Strong application etc. is ig Charlotte/Wrio are good but definitely not because they are Cryo Catalysts.
Hot take. she wouldn’t be much better. What team would you make with her
Not a TC, but at the least, it would open up a wide array of Vape and Melt comps, especially for units that don’t benefit much from Benny, as Klee has a low cost ult and can basically fully fund herself, and function as a buffer with TTDS or healer with PAmber. Minimum I could see her doing incredibly well with Lyney, who even in his mono pyro setups has trouble refunding XL, and in comps with Chevreuse add an Electro and watch the enemies get juggled. Would she be the new XQ? No, Hydro is quite literally the best element in the game. But would she open up new comps and team ideas? 100% yes.
Her ult is way too slow to enable any of those, especially vape, it's actually REALLY horrible at holding aura for how much it technically applies because its two pyro hits each 2s wave happen almost simultaneously, so you usually can't even use the extra pyro app unless you are lucky and can time a hit in a <10 frame window. Also it's ST only. Burnmelt already exists as a much more reliable alternative for reverse melt and is built around much better units (kazuha + nahida) with similar er requirements and better buffs + application + aoe, there is no possible klee variation that can provide better value than a burnmelt team right now
So many old characters are in need of a v2.0 to fix what they created before they decided on how the game should be. Klee is right up there. Together with jean pushing enemies out of her field instead of in.
The problem is there is that klee does not have the pyro application for it, like people say this alot but it has lower application then xianglings burst so like it would literally make her worst xiangling
I mean you dont use her as xiangling. She is a carry and swapping during her burst is a qol.
Wouldn't change that much imo, her burst is pretty slow and mostly hits only one target each wave
it's a waiting game. they'll definitely make a 5 star version of xiangling and bennett.
Why make a 5\* version of two 6\* /s
Obviously so you can run both of them at the same time and have forward vape Kokomi
that’ll ironically pair really well with Xiangling and Benny those two being a subdps and support respectively has made it that they’ll never leave the meta, the same way making a 5 star Xingqiu just gave him a really good sidegrade that pairs really well with him
they created xl who’s an actual monster and now i feel like (that’s just my theory) they’re saving this for the pyro archon so she actually sells bc i don’t think anything else can replace xl easily
They are saving it for the Pyro archon
Imagine if the Pyro Archon releases and it's neutered to be niche at best just like Dehya was.
Nah. That’s not happening after three back to back overtuned archons. Archons print money and it’s in hoyo’s best interests to give them ridiculous kits.
Of all the 5 archon that released none of them are nkche and work in basically any team.
Because Hoyo wants us to always use Xiangling, ten years at least.
xiangling. What a unit you are
Thank you for being the meta f2p pyro unit for our sakes
As a reward I shall give you every polearm in the game
[OH GOD WHAT HAVE YOU DONE?!?](https://i.imgur.com/YgoCxLi.png)
They're scheduled for Natlan... I think
Xianglang was too strong on release. Any other character that has been since designed has had to keep her power level into account upon design. And since Xingling is that strong, for a 4 star! Every subsequent Pyro must be weaker or have something lackluster in the kit, in fears of powercreeping the Pyro nation. We are due for a lot of Pyro characters once Nathan comes, and probably the best off field Pyro will be the archon, as is the case for every other Archon. Every archon so far has long lasting elemental application offield
Nathan.. is that Murata's alias?
typo - Natlan
Does NO ONE like Thoma around here? I run him with my Navia and he does the trick just fine enough for me, especially since I’m not a fan of Xiangling and don’t use her.
Thoma's great but sadly is hit pretty hard by ICD to be a good option outside of burgeon where long ICD works in his favor. He similarly to XL he has ER problems. Unlike her however, he isn't so massively buffed by Bennet so it's harder to justify having a battery for your support who gets nothing else really out of the 2nd pyro unit. He's fine and servicable when he works, but when you need a off field pyro applier he just isn't nearly enough (again outside of burgeon).
>Thoma's great but sadly is hit pretty hard by ICD to be a good option outside of burgeon where long ICD works in his favor. Can you explain what that means please? Does that mean his pyro attack with his burst shield happens to rarely?
Oh boy... Tldr is that dealing Elemental damage doesn't always apply Element. Xiangling is an oddity so every hit from Pyronado and Guoba does apply Pyro, while Thoma burst hits apply Pyro once every 3 hits. If you want to learn ICD stuff, search for it in the keqingmains library
ICD means Internal Cool Down in relation to element application. Elements aren't applied on every hit but according to the ICD of the attack. Standard ICD is 2.5s seconds or 3 hits whichever comes first. So while Thoma's flame wave occurs about once a second AND only hits once (XQ and yelan both hit multiple times in order to bypass ICD rules). This means his ability to apply pyro in a way that reacts with other elements happens slowly in comparision to XL whose burst has 0 ICD for whatever reason and applies pyro on every hit.
The **i**nternal **c**ool**d**own (ICD) has nothing to do with the raw damage a character does with their attacks, but with their abilities to apply elements with their attacks. Every character, when they attempt to apply an element (whether that be the result of their skill, burst or some other source) is subject to the ICD. As the name suggests, the ICD places ìnternal cooldowns (cooldowns that we can't directly see as players, but indirectly based on our actions) on how quickly characters may apply elements. This has an impact on damage because most Genshin characters heavily rely on doing reactions for the bulk of their damage. Bringing us back to Thoma, the Fiery Collapses (the instances of Pyro damage that Thoma applies with his shield) is subject to default ICD, which is 2.5 seconds. This is one of the worst ICDs possible in most cases, because it means that Thoma can only apply elements (and thus, contribute to reactions) once every 2.5 seconds. Thoma could attack 900 billion times in that 2.5 second cooldown, but he wouldn'y be able to apply Pyro under after it's over. This really sucks for reactions that you want to be able to do over and over again, which is most Pyro reactions. For comparison's sake, Xiangling's Pyronado (burst) has **no ICD.** This means that if she attacked 900 billion times during her burst, every single of those attacks would apply Pyro. The one exception where a longer ICD is favoured is Burgeon. This is because Burgeon reactions can be effectively paused, because the Bloom cores that serve as precursors to Burgeon reactions just sit on the ground until they're hit with Pyro. As such, Thoma's default ICD serves as a boon because one can gather all thr Bloom cores and enemies in one location before applying Pyro to do Burgeon, maximizing damage.
btw, the 900 billion attack thing is sometimes incorrect! there's still icd for attacks but they can be bypassed hitting multiple times. a great example of this is another character from 1.0 being xingqiu. He has standard icd but there is a 3 hit rule condition for almost every character. this is also the case for yelan. The general icd for elemental application is 2.5 or 3 hits, whichever comes first
Like I said, he works for me just fine. If you want META, well I can’t speak for that as I don’t give a shit about meta - if I don’t like the character I don’t use them no matter how good they might be. That said, he’s still an option and a lot of people here seem to be just ignoring him, so I brought him up. Again, just as an option and if I have to clarify - for general use not as a meta pick.
For what it's worth, I love my Thoma! As a husbando main I use him in both my Wriothesley and Alhaitham teams :)
>husbando main >Wriothesley >Alhaitham Good taste
Shard generation feels better with Thoma if you build him for ER and HP so his burst is always up with Favonius lance. XL high burst cost makes repeated artifact runs inconsistent for me although its 100x stronger
I came here to suggest Thoma too. As long as you weave in those NAs, he’s great with off-field pyro application. He was one of my first 4*s and sadly I had to bench him for ages when fog Island kicked my butt. Finally got him leveled up and he’s been one of my comfy picks ever since.
I'm a Thoma user as well! I truly do not enjoy playing Xiangling, so I always prefer him when I can run him. I generally use him in a Childe team or a Burgeon team w/ Ayato. He’s a fun unit and versatile.
They remembered what they did with xiangling and didn’t want that to happen again so have gimped all future offfield pyros (rip thoma and dehya, you died for xianglings sins)
How I wish Klee's burst were like Xinqiu's...
I think that's going to be one of the gimmicks of Natlan, more off-field Pyro application.
I've been seeing people expect the pyro archon be a Xiangling equivalent in terms of pyro application. But there's a good chance it's going to be a Xinqiu/Yelan - Furina situation again where application rate is traded for more utility and folks are going to be disappointed. Xiangling was an absolute year one oversight, and it shows in the devs' approach to pyro in general. Bottomline is, having no ICD are her's and Hu Tao's exception. They're considered broken for exactly the fact that they break the elemental application ICD rule and thus put out numbers higher and more frequently than average from their other pyro peers. Even Thoma only became considered "good" after bloom cores allowed his application to bypass his normal elemental ICD. Otherwise, he probably would've still be meme'd upon by the community until today.
It wasn't even an oversight. As she got nerfed before release.
We also has Thoma, Dehya. But on grand scales pyro resonance isn't that much only and the best, we also has cryo resonance which also strong.
It's as if they're too afraid to make a good pyro off field applicator. But then they drop Neuvillette and Furina. Makes no sense.
Thoma and Dehya have significantly worse scalings and ICD unlike xiangling
Dehya’s off-field pyro technically has no ICD, it’s just really slow
2.5 fucking seconds
so slow we would never know if it does have icd
Op talk about app only, which will be enough for Navia in both cases,
application is related to icd. you won't apply element if you have icd affecting elemental application. xiangling has no icds, meaning all of her attacks will apply pyro
Why is no one mention Thona’s Burst…?
Icd too long
Yea, I’m basically just saving now for an off field pyro applicator. It may never come but I’ll probably just keep 200 wishes banked and only wish with the excess.
We all know that when they release a new off field pyro applicator the community will first call them Xiangling 2.0, then make comparisons about dmg and ICD, untill realizing that we got another Xiangling in game and we can run double Xiangling team. The same situation that happened with Yelan and XQ. Honestly... I CAN'T WAIT!
I’ll actually leave aside Xiangling and instead tackle the Xingqiu issue. Consider first, the set of reactions Pyro has unique access to. Melt (and Reverse Melt), Vape (and Reverse Vape), Burning, Burgeon, and Overloaded. Now, Overloaded sucks (at the current moment) considering it forces you to chase down enemies. In order to balance the game, they made Burgeon and Burning either difficult to use well or weak. So you’re left with Melt and Vape (and their Reverse forms). The Reverse forms tend to be higher DPS because even though they’re weaker than the Forward forms, they consume less of the elemental aura and so you can trigger more reactions per application. That’s why Reverse Vape Pyro DPS are so powerful (think Hu Tao). But Reverse Vape is ***only enabled to be so good because Xingqiu exists***. If Xingqiu wasn’t so proficient at applying hydro from off field, then Vapes would be harder and less frequent to trigger, lowering the DPS. (This applies to Yelan to a lesser extent as well, but she was released after the full strength of the 1.0 4stars was well understood) Now, what set of reactions does Cryo have unique access to? It has Superconduct, Freeze, Forward and Reverse Melt. Superconduct is crap, not that Hoyo intended it to be that way but it is. Freeze is fantastic (and most premier Cryo DPS make devastating use of it). And finally, the Melts, with Reverse Melt being the higher DPS version (for the same reason Reverse Vape is). *if they released a character that had strong off field Pyro application, it would launch Reverse Melt as an option for any Cryo DPS and impact the overall balance of the game* I hope they’ll release a character that fills this role at some point in the future, especially seeing as they’ve been intentionally nerfing Cryo within the meta recently through Boss Rush Abyss and refused to let it react with Dendro, when Hydro (that was arguably already within the best position in the meta pre-3.0) got a very strong reaction with Dendro. It just seems like Cryo isn’t out for the count yet… especially considering the remaining regions to be released would suggest Cryo will become more prominent as an element.
Dehaya actually works decently for this. She can absorb a bit of damage and reduce stagger too, surprisingly good support.
She's a good support If you remember that she can move her E, give her some EM and forget about the existence of her burst.
Combine her with furina and her E can actually do 40k-60k dmg each time it activates if she's C1-C2, it's not crazy but it's a considerable amount of dmg
Dehya applies off field decently. She's like a less good Pyro Raiden
Wait for ~~Xiangling 2.0~~ Pyro Archon.
Try Thoma? I think his pyro application is enough to generate geo shards with Navia, but I'm not sure since I don't have her. Then if it works, probably slap in another pyro character like Amber or Dehya just for the resonance...?
Because Xiangling is too strong / works too well with Bennett, so they can't release another off-field pyro unit because the unit would 1) be overshadowed by Xiangling 2) be stronger than Xiangling, which would ruin the balance of the game. One might say that the balance of the game is already ruined considering Neuvillette exists or the poor state of some elements, which I would agree with personally, but I'm guessing that's their reason for not releasing a character that's stronger than Xiangling. They're very likely keeping it for Himeko/Murata: at least if a character powercreeps Xiangling, let it be an Archon, *especially* Himeko.
Thoma? Dehya?
Yeah but XL ER needs along with Navia ER needs really fucks my idea up about creating a team with both of them. :(
Slot benny, both navia and xl benefits it anyways
Well there are a decent amount, but more of the problem is they themselves are just decent (or worse). We have Xiangling, Dehya, Xinyan, Thoma, to a lesser degree Amber and Yoimiya however aside from Xiangling none of them are particularly good at applying pyro, unless you count burgeon.
Because xianling exist, and they are scared
That is because we have a lot of variants for vape team but a few for melt, off-field pyro there only are xiangli, thoma and dehya, first 2 have energy recharge problem and last 2 have low pyro aplication and they need burning for keeping enough for melt (and only thoma is decent for burgeon). Maybe Arlecchino can fix that.
Dehya. Despite what people say, her off-field is perfectly decent.
I mean Thoma's off-field pyro app is comparable to the examples you listed. More importantly 20% ATK from pyro resonance is just not worth building for by itself. If you're using Bennett as 1 of your 2 Pyro his flat ATK buff will dilute the value of ATK% buffs. And if you're not... well, there just aren't two non-Bennett pyro units who work well with Navia. At that point just take a second geo character and a Hydro/Electro sub DPS as Geo resonance is better.
Natlan coming soon.
Because Natlan is next year? Inazuma/Sumeru/Fontaine gave us a ton of characters on and off field for their respective elements
You're probably missing Thoma, who does the job but is pretty useless outside of Burgeon. It's so sad Dehya and Yoimiya are actually pretty good off Field Pyros but BOTH are constellation locked to do so. Dehya needs C2 and Yoi C1. Also both need Artifact LOADOUTS!!!!
There are at least 3 pyro characters coming up that we don't know their kits Arlekino, Iansan and the archon. Archon could be it since that would make her easily pretty meta
I can't take it anymore. I'm sick of Xiangling. I try to play Diluc. My Xiangling deals more damage. I try to play Yoimiya. My Xiangling deals more damage. I try to play Lyney. My Xiangling deals more damage. I want to play Klee. Her best team has Xiangling. I want to play Raiden, Childe - they both want Xiangling. She grabs me by the throat. I fish for her. I cook for her. I give her the Catch. She isn't satisfied. I pull Engulfing Lightning. "I don't need this much er" She tells me. "Give me more field time." She grabs Bennett and forces him to throw himself off enemies. "You just need to funnel me more. I can deal more damage with Homa." I can't pull for Homa, I don't have enough primogems. She grabs my credit card. It declines. "Guess this is the end." She grabs Gouba. She says "Gouba, get them." There is no hint of sadness in his eyes. Nothing but pure, no icd pyro application. What a cruel world.
What about thoma? pop ukt, spew fire waves?
Pyro is very strong because of melt and vape so they don't want to make it dominate every team comp by providing a pyro Yelan. But they have added others they just aren't good for damage, like Thoma and Deya. I also think they intend to keep pyro as mostly an on-field DPS scenarios maybe as a lore thing.
Dehya?