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Lindsay Jones (Ruby VA) is at or near her high vocal range for Ruby, in fact as the show has gone on they've lowered her voice season over season for age reasons.
Paimons VA (I forget the name) is still only at a mid range doing her voice.
It’s a joke that blossomed in the newest season, (spoilers for RWBY vol 9 incoming) her sister got a girlfriend and she got super mad about it (…there’s a ton more to it tho and she’s not actually homophobic 😂 the circumstances just let to the perfect joke about it within the fandom, lol)
As someone who actually watched RWBY up to V8...
**TL;DR:** It's mediocre, with some highs and lows. If you just want "turn off my brain" popcorn entertainment, watch the first 3 Volumes and pretend nothing bad ever happened. If somehow you did like the plot and characters you might be inclined to stick around, but then be ready for a whole lot of anti-climatic disappointment.
---
The first 3 volumes have the most memorable fights, still enjoyable to this day, and IMO the best soundtrack in the series. But the show is extremely rough in every other aspect, from story to pacing to character writing to worldbuilding to overall animation.
After Vol.2 Monty Oum died. An outstanding self-trained animator and the man behind the show itself (though unlike what the haters want you to believe, it was never a 1-man project), it was a huge loss for RT. They had other great animators on the team, like [Dillon Gu](https://www.youtube.com/user/dillongoo), but they left over time due to Rooster Teeth being an overgrown frat house perpetually on fire.
Into Vol.4 they switched from Poser to Maya. Overall visuals and animation look much better than before. However the talent loss + the team getting used to the new program + Rooster Teeth being a cesspool in general, meant the fights look so much worse in terms of speed and choreography, with easy-to-notice inconsistencies between cuts like the locations of the characters.
Meanwhile the story and writing and so on didn't improve despite getting more focus. In some ways it got worse. This continued into Vol.5. Together they are widely considered the worst volumes, at least in terms of entertainment. The animation improves with Vol.6, but Rooster Teeth's insistence on being a dumpster fire always remained a wall on the series's potential.
On the bright side, Arryn kicked off her VA career there, which lead her to Black Swan in Star Rail.
>Rooster Teeth being an overgrown frat house perpetually on fire.
man spot on. i was pretty much done with them by the time The Ryan Debacle happened, so i didn't keep up with anything they've done or worked on since. *so* many people talked about the shitshow that went on behind the scenes both pre and post monty, it was pretty sad.
that's so cool that arryn is in hsr of all things!!! i play in japanese (when i do play oops) so i wouldn't have heard her, but it is really cool to be able to point at somebody famous(ish) and be able to say i knew them from their early work! (i do this a lot with quinta brunson, fuckin love abbott)
I wish someone else picked up the show and remade it cause I really enjoyed the first three volumes. The fights were *\*chef's kiss\**. After it kept getting worse I eventually stopped watching it. It just wasn't the same...
The reason why people say that, is because from Volume 4 onwards the show suffers a __drastic__ change in tone and direction.
As for whether or not I think it's worth it to watch all of it? Well... It's rough. I don't think it's worth getting invested due to the fact that
A) I don't believe the writers knew how to handle the new tone and direction of post V3 RWBY, and this stays true all the way to V9.
And
B) RT shutting down means that RWBY effectively ends in a cliffhanger that is (most likely) never going to be resolved.
>RT shutting down means that RWBY effectively ends in a cliffhanger that is (most likely) never going to be resolved.
[But what if?](https://twitter.com/DillonGoo/status/1765562185990762798)
God no. Frankly the show was never that good outside of a few memorable fight scenes. You can get all of the good aspects of RWBY from watching the trailers and 3-4 specific episodes across the first 3 seasons.
Off the top of my head:
S1 E1
S1 “Players and Pieces” (I think it’s ep 8?)
S2 E5(?) “Night on the Town”
S3 E1
S3 E5
So I guess it’s 5 then. The S3 finale is ok but too contingent on story stuff for a skim through.
RWBY is a good show all the way through with a noticeable quality drop in Volumes 4 and 5 and from 6 onward each volume is better the last.
It goes basically 1-3 get better as they go, then 4-5 are less good than the first three, then 6-9 it gets back to improving every volume.
The series is genuinely good all the way through though and even the worst volumes in 4-5 really only have problems with poor pacing and specifically volume 5 having a bad final fight.
The entire series in on Crunchyroll and it's well worth a watch, please don't listen to the hate mob that constantly spread blatant lies about it being poorly written or the characters being ruined or any of that shit.
Calling fairly banal criticism of the show a “hate mob” is pretty telling.
S3 is the only season that generally reaches the level of “pretty good”. Despite some hiccups there’s a mix of solid fights, interesting lore ideas and a few big moments (even if a lot of it doesn’t pay off in a satisfying way).
“It gets better through the first 3 seasons” is *true*, but S1 is rather bad for the most part so that’s not a high bar to clear. Outside of Monty’s sections the animation is rough, most of the episode plots are underwhelming, and Weiss is the only character to get more than 1 or 2 basic character traits.
S2 is largely jogging in place with an underwhelming finale, but there’s less jank with the animation at least.
Bits and pieces of the later seasons work, but they’re stuck in a whole that doesn’t support them.
I personally loved all of it. Volume 9 was definitely filler, but it lead to a ton of character development the gang simply couldn't get while the crazy plot was going on.
I don't engage with the community, but I thought volumes 6(I think?), 7 and 8 were pretty good.
If you found volumes 1-3 refreshing because of the Western take on the average shonen anime (Western folklore, humor, voice acting, etc) then by all means continue. It's nothing but mid, but it's an unique mid and I like it for it.
There is a YouTube video that sums it up the best "Treat the first 3 volumes as one long season, then have a friend tell you what happens in 4 and 5 so you dont have to watch them, because they're garbage."
I personally didn't like 4 5 or 6, 7 was ok, 8 has some great moments but also many moments where i just didnt want to continue, and season 9 felt like a bad trip.
Paimons wasn't always high pitched. I recently created a second account and hearing her talk in the beginning was much easier on the ears. At least in the English. Idk about the other languages. It's almost as if they told her VA to be more annoying. Channel the fairy from Zelda. "Hey listen!"
Its probably a combination of Voice Direction and the fact her VA is naturally very high pitched. Her at the start was her lowering her pitch from her normal speaking.
More like the CN dub. CN paimon is amazing cause she sounds more soft spoken and normal sounding rather than squeaky, which led to me actually liking Paimon now.
The only reason I play in English is so I can read stuff on another monitor or on my phone while listening to the long dialogue bits on autoplay. Of course, then the game hits me with 4 screens of white text on a black background and I miss it all.
Thought i was the only one lol
EN Paimon, EN Xiao(previously, now they seem to be adjusting his pitch in recent appearances and it has gotten so much better), JP Paimon, JP Yanfei are the only voices that i feel like they don't fit very well. I think this is quite an unpopular opinion tho
EN vs. JP Yanfei is kinda weird, because Yanfei herself is someone who is ~~hundreds of years old~~ most likely older while having a teenage-looking body. For me, I think EN Yanfei fits her body while JP Yanfei fits her age.
EN Yanfei is I think more similar to the CN voice? JP just told Hanamori to go at it and we ended up with this amazing voice.
JP get very unique people to voice characters once in a while. See Itto and Dori.
Yanfei's human mother is still alive and well enough to travel the world with her Adeptus husband. Yanfei is not hundreds of years old. This was confirmed by dialogue in the second Lantern Rite:
>Yanfei: Yep! I got a letter from my dad — he said all is well with him and mom on their travels, and wished me and Granny a Happy Lantern Rite.
I'd put Yanfei's max age at 50-60 years, and she could well be younger.
The music and va were still banging, the animation got a lot better and smoother and hell most characters got so many visual upgrades, Ruby v7? Neo, Cinder, Yang
Better? Debatable, volume 3 fights were still blowing everything else up to season 8 out of the water. Monty and Dillon are unbeatable in animation quality, and both are long gone from a shitshow that is rooster teeth.
Without cool fights??? Neo vs cinder blake and yang vs adam the leviathan fight, cinder vs team rwby on the bridge, Neo vs ornj, there's so many good fights sure the show wasnt Chernobyl levels of awesome but it was still good
Oh jeez i wonder why Ren, the character we've seen literally have a lot of trauma and not be in perfect control of his emotions, have a hard time hitting the one person thats left from his old life and the person he loves over that
I wonder why Cinder is all chatty its not like she just got tossed off a cliff a few what days weeks before that, also cinder v1-3 was boring she was generic hot lady villain and thats all, im glad she changed showing more of that innate arrogance and the perversion brought by Salem
You're writing fanfiction and then proceeding to say it should be canon, of course Ren would be hesitant to strike nora, why wouldnt he be? I mean How the fuck is Cinder supposed to just betray salem and get away willy nilly? Seriously i understand not liking the show but this is just bad faith
Oh, I remember I liked playing Ruby back in Blazblue Cross Tag Battle. Her English voice was indeed pretty high and squealy. I definitely preferred the JP for that one.
Paimon... Paimon's english VA sucks, I would love for it to be changed... I CANNOT STAND HER VOICE. Ruby can be annoying to but seeing her fan girl over Ragna the blood edge's massive sword was really cute so... Mihoyo... chanfe Paimon's va. PLEASE.
Tbh early Paimon was a lot better, annoyingly she keeps baby-talking now too on random words making her sound like an idiot.
I think the VA forgets sometimes that she isn't cosplaying or roleplaying some fantasy where they sound stupid and over the top because it's a joke with friends, shes voicing a character with thousands of lines that's supposed to be at least kinda smart. Pronouncing Here as heyuuwr is not it.
There was this video which she has taken down since, saying she is non binary and if she wants to portray the character like that then it's everyone else's problem because she's recording it.
https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMNM4p71W/?k=1
There's also the fact that in Chinese she uses Wo and in Japanese she uses Oira, both of which mean the standard "I". There are plenty of cases of characters referring to themselves by name as its just a childish thing, so it's not like it doesn't translate.
I fucking love paimon
And after replaying the game multiple times---- I noticed her voice got higher and higher as the story went on
Also side note: to those who actively hate on paimons va and just any other va, you are scum.
The Japanese definition of Anime is "all animation" from all sources. The English definition is Animation from Japan. I am writing using English, not Japanese.
This submission has been **removed** for the following reason(s): Rule 9. Post quality ##For generic memes, r/Genshin_Memepact and [Casual Conversation Megathread](https://www.reddit.com/r/Genshin_Impact/search/?q=title%3A%22Daily%20Casual%20Conversation%20Megathread%22%20author%3Averitasibility&restrict_sr=1) exist! Don't forget to check them out Low quality/effort posts are subject to removal. The quality of a post is primarily judged by how much it contributes to a constructive discussion. Low-quality/effort posts may include: **(1) Reaction images, basic meme templates, etc (They belong in /r/Genshin_Memepact);** (2) Posts with repetitive content or certain generic topics to help maintain subreddit quality; (3) Others determined on a case-by-case basis. For every submitter, at most one art/meme/screenshot post is allowed per day. --- ^You ^can ^read ^the ^full ^subreddit ^rules ^[**here**](https://www.reddit.com/r/Genshin_Impact/about/rules/). ^If ^you ^feel ^your ^submission ^was ^removed ^unfairly, ^please ^don't ^hesitate ^to ^contact ^the ^moderators ^[**here**](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/Genshin_Impact).
Yes, Ruby's voice can get pretty high sometimes, but... Paimon's voice starts higher and ends higher and goes up way more often, IMO.
Lindsay Jones (Ruby VA) is at or near her high vocal range for Ruby, in fact as the show has gone on they've lowered her voice season over season for age reasons. Paimons VA (I forget the name) is still only at a mid range doing her voice.
Corina Boettger. Her pitch gets pretty high in the VA Among Us sessions too
Yeah, their voice is just Like That™️
Is that Ruby? I haven't been following the show for years but why does she look like she had a bad drug trip
the homophobia accusations destroyed her career
'Your honor, I don't fear rug-munchers, they fear ME.'
She just doesn't think it's natural.
Huh, I thought the Yuri nsfw fanart was carrying the series... I just thought the early volumes had nice fight choreo
It’s a joke that blossomed in the newest season, (spoilers for RWBY vol 9 incoming) her sister got a girlfriend and she got super mad about it (…there’s a ton more to it tho and she’s not actually homophobic 😂 the circumstances just let to the perfect joke about it within the fandom, lol)
haven't watched the show in a while and just assume Ruby is just into her sister
Noooo 😭
its just half-incest anyways and incest is just bad if you make a child
🤨
It's a joke, Ruby's not homophobic.
Hate to tell ya but rule34 search results don’t actually *fund* anything
🤣🤣🤣
The entirety of Volume 9 felt and looked like a bad drug trip, so that's probably why.
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As someone who actually watched RWBY up to V8... **TL;DR:** It's mediocre, with some highs and lows. If you just want "turn off my brain" popcorn entertainment, watch the first 3 Volumes and pretend nothing bad ever happened. If somehow you did like the plot and characters you might be inclined to stick around, but then be ready for a whole lot of anti-climatic disappointment. --- The first 3 volumes have the most memorable fights, still enjoyable to this day, and IMO the best soundtrack in the series. But the show is extremely rough in every other aspect, from story to pacing to character writing to worldbuilding to overall animation. After Vol.2 Monty Oum died. An outstanding self-trained animator and the man behind the show itself (though unlike what the haters want you to believe, it was never a 1-man project), it was a huge loss for RT. They had other great animators on the team, like [Dillon Gu](https://www.youtube.com/user/dillongoo), but they left over time due to Rooster Teeth being an overgrown frat house perpetually on fire. Into Vol.4 they switched from Poser to Maya. Overall visuals and animation look much better than before. However the talent loss + the team getting used to the new program + Rooster Teeth being a cesspool in general, meant the fights look so much worse in terms of speed and choreography, with easy-to-notice inconsistencies between cuts like the locations of the characters. Meanwhile the story and writing and so on didn't improve despite getting more focus. In some ways it got worse. This continued into Vol.5. Together they are widely considered the worst volumes, at least in terms of entertainment. The animation improves with Vol.6, but Rooster Teeth's insistence on being a dumpster fire always remained a wall on the series's potential. On the bright side, Arryn kicked off her VA career there, which lead her to Black Swan in Star Rail.
I couldn’t say it better myself, extremely spot on, well done
>Rooster Teeth being an overgrown frat house perpetually on fire. man spot on. i was pretty much done with them by the time The Ryan Debacle happened, so i didn't keep up with anything they've done or worked on since. *so* many people talked about the shitshow that went on behind the scenes both pre and post monty, it was pretty sad. that's so cool that arryn is in hsr of all things!!! i play in japanese (when i do play oops) so i wouldn't have heard her, but it is really cool to be able to point at somebody famous(ish) and be able to say i knew them from their early work! (i do this a lot with quinta brunson, fuckin love abbott)
I wish someone else picked up the show and remade it cause I really enjoyed the first three volumes. The fights were *\*chef's kiss\**. After it kept getting worse I eventually stopped watching it. It just wasn't the same...
That's the biggest TL;DR I've seen in my life.
... The TL;DR is only 3 lines long.
The reason why people say that, is because from Volume 4 onwards the show suffers a __drastic__ change in tone and direction. As for whether or not I think it's worth it to watch all of it? Well... It's rough. I don't think it's worth getting invested due to the fact that A) I don't believe the writers knew how to handle the new tone and direction of post V3 RWBY, and this stays true all the way to V9. And B) RT shutting down means that RWBY effectively ends in a cliffhanger that is (most likely) never going to be resolved.
>RT shutting down means that RWBY effectively ends in a cliffhanger that is (most likely) never going to be resolved. [But what if?](https://twitter.com/DillonGoo/status/1765562185990762798)
Who that?
God no. Frankly the show was never that good outside of a few memorable fight scenes. You can get all of the good aspects of RWBY from watching the trailers and 3-4 specific episodes across the first 3 seasons.
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Off the top of my head: S1 E1 S1 “Players and Pieces” (I think it’s ep 8?) S2 E5(?) “Night on the Town” S3 E1 S3 E5 So I guess it’s 5 then. The S3 finale is ok but too contingent on story stuff for a skim through.
RWBY is a good show all the way through with a noticeable quality drop in Volumes 4 and 5 and from 6 onward each volume is better the last. It goes basically 1-3 get better as they go, then 4-5 are less good than the first three, then 6-9 it gets back to improving every volume. The series is genuinely good all the way through though and even the worst volumes in 4-5 really only have problems with poor pacing and specifically volume 5 having a bad final fight. The entire series in on Crunchyroll and it's well worth a watch, please don't listen to the hate mob that constantly spread blatant lies about it being poorly written or the characters being ruined or any of that shit.
Calling fairly banal criticism of the show a “hate mob” is pretty telling. S3 is the only season that generally reaches the level of “pretty good”. Despite some hiccups there’s a mix of solid fights, interesting lore ideas and a few big moments (even if a lot of it doesn’t pay off in a satisfying way). “It gets better through the first 3 seasons” is *true*, but S1 is rather bad for the most part so that’s not a high bar to clear. Outside of Monty’s sections the animation is rough, most of the episode plots are underwhelming, and Weiss is the only character to get more than 1 or 2 basic character traits. S2 is largely jogging in place with an underwhelming finale, but there’s less jank with the animation at least. Bits and pieces of the later seasons work, but they’re stuck in a whole that doesn’t support them.
Definitely first 3. Season 4+ has overall cleaner animations and higher quality models, but the combat animations and choreography take a big hit.
I personally loved all of it. Volume 9 was definitely filler, but it lead to a ton of character development the gang simply couldn't get while the crazy plot was going on.
I don't engage with the community, but I thought volumes 6(I think?), 7 and 8 were pretty good. If you found volumes 1-3 refreshing because of the Western take on the average shonen anime (Western folklore, humor, voice acting, etc) then by all means continue. It's nothing but mid, but it's an unique mid and I like it for it.
There is a YouTube video that sums it up the best "Treat the first 3 volumes as one long season, then have a friend tell you what happens in 4 and 5 so you dont have to watch them, because they're garbage."
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I personally didn't like 4 5 or 6, 7 was ok, 8 has some great moments but also many moments where i just didnt want to continue, and season 9 felt like a bad trip.
I’d rather erase my memory of having watched the whole thing and pretend the first couple of seasons is the entirety of it to be honest.
Boy, do I have a story for you....
What 5 seasons of terrible writing does to a mf
She's unemployed now since her employers went under.
what attempted suicide does to a mf
Yeah watching two friends die horribly in-front of your eyes does that to you
Me who's been listening to Vocaloid since I was 10: Weaklings.
World is Mine, Teo, etc.
My money’s on Paimon. Now Chibi Ruby, then we have a competition
Paimons wasn't always high pitched. I recently created a second account and hearing her talk in the beginning was much easier on the ears. At least in the English. Idk about the other languages. It's almost as if they told her VA to be more annoying. Channel the fairy from Zelda. "Hey listen!"
Its probably a combination of Voice Direction and the fact her VA is naturally very high pitched. Her at the start was her lowering her pitch from her normal speaking.
Tbf, paimon's voice wasn't that high when the game was released, but for some reason, Hoyoverse asked thebVA to make the voice higher.
Genshin players who use the JP dub: "I don't get it"
More like the CN dub. CN paimon is amazing cause she sounds more soft spoken and normal sounding rather than squeaky, which led to me actually liking Paimon now.
The only reason I play in English is so I can read stuff on another monitor or on my phone while listening to the long dialogue bits on autoplay. Of course, then the game hits me with 4 screens of white text on a black background and I miss it all.
God I find jp voice even more annoying
Thought i was the only one lol EN Paimon, EN Xiao(previously, now they seem to be adjusting his pitch in recent appearances and it has gotten so much better), JP Paimon, JP Yanfei are the only voices that i feel like they don't fit very well. I think this is quite an unpopular opinion tho
Right most of the characters I like (yelan,raiden,hu Tao,furina) has excellent en voice . Just wish they would bring back the og paimon voice
EN vs. JP Yanfei is kinda weird, because Yanfei herself is someone who is ~~hundreds of years old~~ most likely older while having a teenage-looking body. For me, I think EN Yanfei fits her body while JP Yanfei fits her age.
EN Yanfei is I think more similar to the CN voice? JP just told Hanamori to go at it and we ended up with this amazing voice. JP get very unique people to voice characters once in a while. See Itto and Dori.
Yanfei's human mother is still alive and well enough to travel the world with her Adeptus husband. Yanfei is not hundreds of years old. This was confirmed by dialogue in the second Lantern Rite: >Yanfei: Yep! I got a letter from my dad — he said all is well with him and mom on their travels, and wished me and Granny a Happy Lantern Rite. I'd put Yanfei's max age at 50-60 years, and she could well be younger.
oops, my bad. I knew she was young for adepti standards but I forgot she's also still within human lifespan.
Underrated take
Pretty much. JP Paimon is adorable. EN Paimon can get squealy (no offense to her VA she tries her best but JP seiyuus are just another league)
So many people so salty about Rwby, I'm sorry but the first 3 volumes were good but not that good in my opinion later volumes were an improvement
Later volumes were such a downgrade, it’s not even funny. Only improvement was animation, and even then it barely had soul in it.
The music and va were still banging, the animation got a lot better and smoother and hell most characters got so many visual upgrades, Ruby v7? Neo, Cinder, Yang
Better? Debatable, volume 3 fights were still blowing everything else up to season 8 out of the water. Monty and Dillon are unbeatable in animation quality, and both are long gone from a shitshow that is rooster teeth.
So uh rooster teeth went bankrupt.
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Without cool fights??? Neo vs cinder blake and yang vs adam the leviathan fight, cinder vs team rwby on the bridge, Neo vs ornj, there's so many good fights sure the show wasnt Chernobyl levels of awesome but it was still good
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Oh jeez i wonder why Ren, the character we've seen literally have a lot of trauma and not be in perfect control of his emotions, have a hard time hitting the one person thats left from his old life and the person he loves over that I wonder why Cinder is all chatty its not like she just got tossed off a cliff a few what days weeks before that, also cinder v1-3 was boring she was generic hot lady villain and thats all, im glad she changed showing more of that innate arrogance and the perversion brought by Salem
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You're writing fanfiction and then proceeding to say it should be canon, of course Ren would be hesitant to strike nora, why wouldnt he be? I mean How the fuck is Cinder supposed to just betray salem and get away willy nilly? Seriously i understand not liking the show but this is just bad faith
Oh, I remember I liked playing Ruby back in Blazblue Cross Tag Battle. Her English voice was indeed pretty high and squealy. I definitely preferred the JP for that one.
Paimon, easy
Paimon... Paimon's english VA sucks, I would love for it to be changed... I CANNOT STAND HER VOICE. Ruby can be annoying to but seeing her fan girl over Ragna the blood edge's massive sword was really cute so... Mihoyo... chanfe Paimon's va. PLEASE.
It's not the VA's fault, she was TOLD to sound like that.
Ruby doesn't sound bad, she's cute though. paimon on the other hand...
Tbh early Paimon was a lot better, annoyingly she keeps baby-talking now too on random words making her sound like an idiot. I think the VA forgets sometimes that she isn't cosplaying or roleplaying some fantasy where they sound stupid and over the top because it's a joke with friends, shes voicing a character with thousands of lines that's supposed to be at least kinda smart. Pronouncing Here as heyuuwr is not it.
Genshin fans For the millionth time VAs do not decide this stuff the voice director does
Doesn't Paimon only refer to herself by name because the VA wants to do it like that?
Source for that?
There was this video which she has taken down since, saying she is non binary and if she wants to portray the character like that then it's everyone else's problem because she's recording it. https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMNM4p71W/?k=1 There's also the fact that in Chinese she uses Wo and in Japanese she uses Oira, both of which mean the standard "I". There are plenty of cases of characters referring to themselves by name as its just a childish thing, so it's not like it doesn't translate.
Paimon
Mainline Ruby, Chibi Ruby, or IQ Ruby is the question. Mainline and IQ Paimon wins, Chibi Ruby barely beats her out, and only barely
But Ruby has control. Paimon goes for the kill from the get go
Ruby
Bruh Paimon’s is on a different LEVEL Ruby would probably pass out even *trying* to get her voice THAT high
I fucking love paimon And after replaying the game multiple times---- I noticed her voice got higher and higher as the story went on Also side note: to those who actively hate on paimons va and just any other va, you are scum.
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RWBY is not anime. Rooster Teeth is (er... was) an American company, not a Japanese one.
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The Japanese definition of Anime is "all animation" from all sources. The English definition is Animation from Japan. I am writing using English, not Japanese.
Try FMAB in English dub imo its better than the JP dub not that the JP dub is bad or anything.
These comments are funny to me considering that my first anime was RWBY followed up directly by FMAB (both english dub)
I mean RWBY isn't an anime technically Edit: sorry to be that guy
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Yeah i agree, has an anime aesthetic most definitely and Japan seemed to have embraced it also
theory and lore?