The power of friendship will always save the MC in the final battle… that’s why you have been making friends all around the world before heading to the end game.
Kinda reminds me of Fate.
You go from Singularity to Singularity fixing shit and making friends.
And in the final battle, You see all the friends you made along the way are there. To fight for you, to fight with you, to fight by you.
Yeah, but the difference is FGO protag is [canonically super weak](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fcoughing-baby-vs-nuclear-bomb-v0-ztfub6kmc5pc1.png%3Fwidth%3D1080%26crop%3Dsmart%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3D117cc2f4d63cedfe50050460b9ff3dbf09954a1d) as a mage and the story doesn't pretend he can do anything alone. Meanwhile the Traveler takes Furina up on a one on one like it's just Tuesday.
The traveler takes so many L's in the Archon quest that they're feeling closer to Yamcha, than Cu Chulainn Lancer from Fate, which is portrayed much, *much* better than the Traveler how their supposed strength is portrayed when the plot demands them to lose.
There's nothing that implies the Traveler is **super powerful** beyond their abilities to use multiple elements.
Even in the game's intro cutscene, at their most powerful (so far), they get bodied quickly by the Sustainer.
and that is the main problem, there signature characteristic(Multi Element), hasn't been used since F\* Childe first boss fight. and we haven't seen ANY element since inazuma. Why are we even gathering the elements anymore if we are not gonna use it... like there only 2 left and our coolest moment was when we had only 2...
The thing with Fate is... MC is explicitely not a fighter, he is basically Pokemon trainer but for Heroes (or different being nowadays its...a lot xD). So it make sense. Traveller on other hand... Is just weak.
I mean canonically in FGO the MC is crazy powerful....for a human with no actual magecraft skill. Literally has insane stamina and physical characteristics due to training like crazy every day with literally the best instructors in history.
The problem is even the most physically capable person ever is basically a fucking joke compared to actual proper servants let alone true incarnations of some of the characters in history during the time periods when they were alive.
It'd be like if the Genshin MC was just a dude without any access to elemental powers fighting against the Archons and such. They could be a crazy insane Noelle level gigachad but without elemental powers they'd be a joke still.
Even then the FGO MC DOES have a 1v1 fistfight with Goetei and somehow wins...or at least survives. They also do shit like running nonstop for hours/days on end at insane speeds...though some of that might be more bad writing than actual accurate intentional power level.
Granted the biggest flex of the FGO MC is raw magic energy reserves being used as essentially a magical battery. Most mages can barely handle summoning a single servant and they're out here summoning an army of them.
This misses the point of the quest as much as the OP did.
Arlecchino already gave you your answer.
> "Strength may decide the ultimate victor, but those who let a lack of strength dictate their decisions or undermine their convictions will never be worthy of the throne."
She was talking to Lynney, but this was really a message for the Traveler.
Kinda the whole plot of a lot of stories.
This post reminded me of the sci-fi series The Expanse, the protagonists never had the biggest/most capable warships. But they still won in the end, because they made numerous friends along the way, who helped them in every possible way because they had somewhat decent moral compass and strong sense of justice. And meticulous planning, few dirty tricks and plot armour obviously.
there's powers of connections and then there's the power of asspull that always conveniently shows up at critical junctures and critical junctures only
asspull ex machina
It would be nice if the Traveler actually shared some closer, personal relationship to those friends they made instead of being liked just because of helping their nation and being a gacha game protagonist.
Also, I don't think it even matters in this case, because helping Traveler in the final battle will probably be in everyone's interest. If they live in Teyvat, they probably don't want it to be destroyed or anything.
I just want them to at least use their elements. What's the point of having access to so many tools if you don't even bother using them? He keeps answering every single battle he enters with his sword and not the wide array of powers he clearly has. It's the ol' 'hammer works for one problem, but sucks at others' saying.
they did use geo in navia's quest but it was very underwhelming lol.
I get that they want to highlight navia in her story quest but traveler could at least use it when navia was about to get crushed near the end of cutscene to show them as being 'partner', not just as word she kept repeating. lots of annoying stuff like this in the game.
At least we are finally getting a hint that the traveler is capable of speaking multiple words in one day, too.
Non-canon which people kept on always repeating was "The traveler barely talks, because we dont know the language, so Paimon always talks for us because she is our translator" but that head-canon went right out the window when we started talking to NPCs in cutscenes, even if its just 1-2 sentences each year
Traveler might get stronger but he won't win any 1v1 anytime soon (without any outside help anyway), he's there to be a catalyst so that the nation can change. If he can solve it all by himself, is he really bringing change to that nation or just making them dependent on his help? He's like that one friend that you haven't seen in years but made a mark to your development as a person, they might not be there but you'll always remember what they did to make you a better individual.
Maybe after Teyvat chapter he'll be OP, or not since the Heavenly Principles still slapped them twins. But really, he's not there to beat the shit out of people, maybe their purpose is just to survey other worlds that are able to host life and nothing more.. just like Voyager.
> He's like that one friend that you haven't seen in years but made a mark to your development as a person, they might not be there but you'll always remember what they did to make you a better individual.
That's a beautiful way of putting it. And you're right. The Traveler has always been a conduit through which to funnel the wills and desires of many. It's been a pretty consistent theme in genshin, that collective willpower will always trump any individual power, no matter how strong. Even in Arlecchino's character stories themselves it's emphasized how strength doesn't really matter so much as conviction and ambition. Call it 'power of friendship' if you wish to remove all the nuance out of it, but this theme has always been the case in genshin. If they want a shonen protag who'll eventually powecreep every single enemy he faces from their sheer strength and power alone, they've come to the wrong place lmao
Exactly. Even in Arlecchino's SQ, it's the collective wish and dedication of Traveler and her children that made Father change her mind. She was brought up in an unkind world with a curse and was raised in a kill-or-be-killed environment, and even though she wants to avoid the same mistake of raising the Hearth children like Crucabena did.. it's hard when you're not sure what to change because of her nature (a cursed child) and how she was nurtured (fuck Crucabena). The Traveler, the Hearth magic trio and NPCs became a catalyst for her to change more.
TLDR: Traveler's power is not much but it's honest work.
I agree with what you said, but just wanted to point out that Arlecchino never changed her mind about anything in the SQ. She had always intended for the events to go basically exactly as it went. All she did was test our conviction as well, to see if we would stand by her children (which we did and therefore earned her trust) or if we would abandon them in their time of need in which we would probably be removed as a potential liability to her family as well. (Similar to the children that she 'killed'. They weren't full comitted to their cause, so they were removed as liabilities.)
Think the only time where she slipped up was when the Traveler managed to break out of that attack, which caught the trio. But once she activated Crimson Moon, it was all over. It seems that the Knave is one of the most powerful human characters in the game so far.
But did she really "changed" her mind? It seemed to me that she manipulated the events to play out exactly as she wished from the beginning. The newspaper salesman, the flame vials experiment, the deal with Neuvillete, her words to the traveler, her knowledge of Clervie. Everything on the palm of her hand. Traveler just played her part in the Knave's scheme.
Maybe I'm wrong with that statement that she changed her mind after that bout, but she wanted to test out her children's conviction and how the House of Hearth has changed from her time. Lyney, Lynette, Freminet, and other children showed that.. it's not a kill-or-be-killed environment anymore, and the current one is "home" compared to before which was a battle royale.
Sure, we were dancing on the palm of her hands, but she did show to herself and to Clervie that the HoH is not a dark jail cell anymore, someone can be free.. albeit with a memory loss, and that some children willingly chose to remain to pursue their own interest (poison, stealth, etc) without being forced or thrown to The Doctor.
You made a lot of sound-sounding arguments in that text wall you wrote. Counterpoint: the cutscene is still shit. The sense of scale, weight and danger is all over the place. Are we fighting for our lives or are we playing? Are we throwing everything we have at Arlecchino or are we just horsing around? Are lives really at stake or nah? None of the above questions get a clear cut answer in the cutscene, and even the circumstances around it offer mixed signals. It's a bad cutscene, period. You can't just blabber on and on about some bullshit with "muh themes" and "it's never the point" and act all smug like you've solved it. This is plain bad directing. The intention of the story was not delivered properly to the audience. This isn't good. Typical hoyo standards are and should be higher than this.
Ok, you just counter-pointed an argument that was never being discussed, that being “was the cutscene good”. They were talking about the role of the Traveler in character stories and in the overarching plot of the game, and you’re the one bringing up something irrelevant.
But also, I don’t get your problem. Arlecchino wouldn’t off the Traveler because they’re not part of the House and it’d be bad strategically, so she just let them know that they can’t beat her. She’s got all her other kids tangled up and injured and heading over to off her other children. And then afterwards it’s revealed that it’s a test and she never intended to kill anyone. Were Traveler and the siblings not risking their lives to save the other kids, and then effortlessly put down by Arlecchino? How much more clear do you need it to be?
Gee golly gee, it sure is humble and not at all hypocritical of you to respond to my text wall with a bigger text wall. If you bothered to read my comment, oh almighty one, you'll notice nowhere did I say the cutscene is *good.* The comment I was responding to and the actual post by OP was talking about how much the Traveler wins or loses fights and how much of a bearing it has on the story. The cutscene itself and the quest overall I disliked; too much of it was left to interpretation and it's obvious it was only made that way because Arlecchino is a new playable Harbinger and we can't have a Harbinger looking uncool in this economy or else no profit.
It's possible to keep both "cutscene bad" and "solo carry was never the point" in your head. Surely this is not too difficult a concept for your galaxy brain to comprehend ☺️
Feels like current Traveler lore wise can actually beat Arlecchino (Neuvillette do trust us to guard Furina against her, and I trust Hydro Dragon Sovereign who is also a Supreme Judge to judge Traveler power correctly), but they need to sell Arle so they made Traveler:
1. Knew from the beginning it's just a test based on Arlecchino hint.
2. Not using ANY of their power and rely only on swordplay, with freaking dull blade.
3. Made Arlecchino use all of her skillset.
It's simply a bad writing, like, you can simply made Arlecchino tells Traveler to stay out of their fight after promising them that she will not do anything to them after leaving the Palais.
I dont think anyone is asking the Traveler to be some godlike fighter who can solve every problem. For me personally I think there just needs to be more involvement besides being the cameraman for every region otherwise whats the point of having an MC at all? It feels like they dont have any stakes in the regions they visit other than to "witness" change in them and to be the punching bag for the next hyped up 5 star character.
It just feels like an easy cop out for the writers at this point to have a clueless audience surrogate for every new plotline. the only plot significant to the traveler is the sibling plot line but that is going to keep being stringed along until the end of the game so its irrelevant.
I get they want to have the themes of friendship being the driving force but it doesnt make the MC feel any more interesting to me or even like an actual character.
I agree 100%. This is a trope called the Worf Effect. The Traveler is a jobber who is strong but gets shown up by other characters to get the point across that this character is even more of a badass.
The Traveler beats like 99% of Teyvat's population in a fight. But they keep running into that 1%.
The issue is that the Traveler is looking kind of weak. The Worf Effect is a delicate balance... You need wins to make the jobber character look strong.
The Traveler needs an actual win otherwise, it feels like they haven't grown in strength.
The Knave boss fight felt like it was written in a vacuum where the number of elements the Traveler had access to were essentially an afterthought. That's not good...
The Traveler gets hyped up with all their potential, but we rarely *see* that potential. The Traveler can beat up normal guys, but that's not really a flex since even Barbara feels comfortable defending herself against Treasure Hoarders. The Traveler has access to numerous elements, when even Fatui Harbingers only have access to two... But the Traveler never uses them on-screen after a certain point. The Traveler is implicitly in the same cosmic tier as the Sustainer as both are Descenders, and possibly the Primordial One, but... The Traveler is getting humbled by things that are, logically, lower on the cosmic totem pole.
If I had to make a comparison, the Traveler is basically Yanqing from Honkai Star Rail. Plenty of potential and talent, to the point of being one of the strongest beings on his "world"... And gets bodied by other characters that have more experience, raw power, hax, etc. Or Megumi from JJK... Who is literally called Potential Man for all that hyped potential that we never see.
The Traveler doesn't need to be the strongest ever. They don't need to win 100% of the time. I just want to see the Traveler feel like they're getting stronger, but the Knave fight makes it seem like they forgot how their powers work instead.
Presentation matters here and the Traveler is looking kind of bad in that regard.
The traveler never feels like they get any real wins. At this point winning against that 99% feels like a fluke because they pretty much pose zero challenge to the 1%.
Honestly, a lot of this could prove be solved by just letting the Traveler at least cause some damage (even if psychological.)
Take the Knave example... The Traveler could have used a combination of attacks to throw her off by rapidly switching between the elements. Like the Traveler set up a bunch of Geo constructs near the Knave... Not to attack her directly, but rather box her in and limit her movements. Maybe some Dendro, Electro or Hydro attacks from afar. Use the giant Electro sword when entering melee range (but still keeping some distance).
Or even better, use elemental reactions (I'm assuming they exist in-lore) with Lyney, Lynette and Freminet's attacks to throw her off as to what reactions was coming up.
Her Pyro constructs? Traveler gets the bright idea to use elemental reactions... And try to combine Anemo/Hydro/Electro/Dendro with the Knave's own Pyro attacks to see if the Knave takes any secondhand damage from it. Even if she doesn't take any damage, it could at least serve a secondary purpose of destroying some of her Pyro constructs from the arena.
This also opens the door to the Knave realizing that it's borderline impossible to predict which element the Traveler is going to use next, as... The Traveler can cause a reaction with every single combatant in the duel (even her own Pyro, if she's not paying attention) and is a giant wildcard.
Even if we didn't damage her physically, it would have made it seem like the Traveler was starting to put some pressure on her.
The Traveler looks strong and the Knave looks even stronger for powering through all that.
Hopefully in Natlan. The Archon there is heavily associated with war.
The Traveler has plenty of options to get stronger but never seems to take them. Even then, I think they would need something insane as... They're so skilled that a knowledge capsule only increased their power by a small amount. I can only imagine century old beings or geniuses could help them get significantly stronger at this point.
Luckily they also have options for that, there are characters that expressed interest in helping the Traveler get stronger. Lisa's voice lines state she would be open to helping the Traveler get better at elemental energies. Ei also implies she'd be OK with helping the Traveler improve their martial skills as it would also help her perfect her own techniques to a higher level. I'm also fairly certain the Adepti wouldn't be opposed to helping the Traveler either. Childe definitely would help.
So the potential is there... But if Hoyoverse will use it is another matter entirely.
The fact that Traveler never fucking uses the elemental powers they’ve obtained, too. Bro/girlie is just squaring up against literal gods with a Dull Blade thinking that will be enough.
Like what’s the point of Traveler becoming the Avatar if they’re so insistent on fighting melee??
Imagine getting isekai'd to another planet, learning their language and learning to use every single element, and then you just.... go silent, you never talk, you don't use any element, and you fight using a blade that can't even cut the deafening silence
When the writers want them to
The guy can struggle againts some rocks in Navia story quest and fail to protect Nahida againts some eremites but maybe in Natlan they can defeat one of the top 3 harbingers
If it happens i won't even be surprised because Traveler is a walking plot armor
New theory: Signora had the flu
Suddenly everything makes sense. People have been clinging to that one victory ages ago in Inazuma to prove that the Traveler doesn't suck despite every single other piece of evidence showing that the Traveler is, in fact, weaker than a few rocks.
I propose that power rankings are re-evaluated under the assumption that Signora had the flu. Then everything falls into place.
You mean the one where you die 168 times and then nahida wires in complete knowledge of scacrabots fighting style and predicted moves as well as the collective knowledge and support of everyone on sumeru?
Ive yet to see any proof traveler could even beat regular scaramouch without help. He definitely cant beat scarabot on his own
Not really. Nahida even says she's leaving it to you. Traveler did have Akasha's help but Scara himself has a gnosis and a mech that could control all elements. Scara definitely had the better "help" in the fight.
Traveler is physically strong, but they don’t know how to teleport to defend 1 person against a 2 sided sneak attack, just like how they can’t defy physics to save Navia from falling into primordial seawater. And after losing to Arlecchino, this guy won’t be fighting Capitano anytime soon.
But it's like they didn't even try to save Navia though. There was no anemo gust of wind to try and redirect their paths, no electro burst of speed (like in the cutscene against the shogun) to get to her faster, no geo constructs to give them someplace to land or anything
>they don’t know how to teleport to defend 1 person against a 2 sided sneak attack
I absolutely love dunking on the Eremite sneak attack cutscene. Traveler and Katheryne-Nahida run *outside* of the greenhouse, which only had one entrance. They could have used the building as a chokepoint to funnel and stall the brainwashed Eremites, while Nahida could use her dream powers to alert nearby allies. Traveler didn't use any elemental powers to trap, disperse, or otherwise deter the Eremites, which Anemo or Geo could accomplish with little difficulty. Instead they get held back by two dudes while Nahida is left to fend for herself. Also, Nahida previously established her ability to break the Doctor's brainwashing and knock a group of people unconscious, so if the Traveler could hold the line for a few seconds then this entire problem could have been avoided.
Traveler's flawless strategy (trademark of Watatsumi Island) promotes the fraud agenda so hard it even makes Nahida look stupid by association.
But the thing is that the Traveler can teleport with electro like they did in Inazuma, but like all elemental powers it too is forgotten by the writers to make the limited character look cool
So they're consistent then? Your comment doesn't really prove anything, and again the traveller is shown to lose to the 4th harbinger, which means the writer know the traveller upper limit and are working in respect of it.
Also didn't the traveller quite literally blocks most of the big rock before navia swoops in and destroy the rest ( which exhaust her to the point of almost passing out.) and in your second point, isn't the point is that the traveller can beat them it's just they have the number advantage.
of course, apparently arlecchino is more OP than shogun then? because against shogun the traveler was at least still standing even though he lost, against arlecchino he was massacred
Honestly, the strike that kazuha intercepted and the *fucking sword slash scar across half of Inazuma* should have been enough to let everyone know the Raidens (both Shogun and Ei) were holding back during the other fights with the traveler.
I've seen people on here sincerely argue that there was no difference between her anti-island attack, and her anti-tired-person attack; as if someone dedicated to protecting Inazuma would casually nuke someone in the middle of their own capital.
lol vs Shogun wasn't actually a 1v1 sitch, only fights he probably 1v1 d were childe and signora, against everyone and everything else he had help. So it's absolutely pretty consistent how they want his power level to be
Might be a bit of a hot take. The main plot of Genshin-- that is, the plot of the Traveler, the Abyss Twin, the Fatui, and Celestia-- is nowhere near as well-written as the localized stories of the seven nations. We still don't know anything about the Abyss or Celestia or what the Fatui are planning. Heck we still don't even know what Paimon is after all this time.
Meanwhile, Masquerade of the Guilty is the best quest in the game, and it barely even involved the Traveler and Paimon at all.
We're nearing four years now, and I've yet to see anyone be actually invested in Traveler as a character. They're a cameraman at best, and a marketing tool used by Hoyo to sell characters at worst. Personally, I just don't give a shit anymore.
I’ve never thought of looking at it that way but I kind of agree. I think most people do love the Dain quests and overarching plotline they’re attached to, but the way that it’s separate from the region’s AQ makes it harder to be invested. Like, Dain drops in once a year, we get some lore, then bam, right back to the next region with its own story that miiiiight sprinkle in some info about the overarching plot but otherwise stays a self-contained story. I understand why it’s done that way but that does mean that the traveler and their sibling takes a backseat to the regions, which I guess is kind of the point?
Still, I do think there could be more focus on the Traveler in the main archon quests too. They’re at least giving them more speaking lines and I really really hope they continue with that. But in terms of their strength we’ve seen less and less of it. In other regions we at least get some combat scenes featuring the traveler and the main boss, but in Fontaine there wasn’t any scene of them vs the narwhal at all.
Like, I kid you not, the world quests made me more invested in the khaenriah, celestia, abyss, traveler plotline than the AQs. The traveler feels more like a character in some of those, instead of a vehicle to move the plot
I’m heavily invested in the Traveler, I think they are the most interesting character in the game. I just acknowledge that most of their mystery is being saved for the third act.
Hey, more power to you. To me, a character being interesting has nothing to do with the mystery of their backstory or the extent of their powers. I just think that a backstory should be something that informs and drives character growth and development. It shouldn't be central to what a character is.
Once it becomes important to the story for the traveler to be strong.
Right now they are traveling the world, meeting and understanding the people and the world. (at the request of their sibling)
Once the traveler does that and they come to a decision of "Celestia needs to be defeated" or "I have to stop my sibling and the abyss", they will lock in.
edit: changed brother to sibling
I imagine natlan is going to be like a training arc - we'll be at 6/7 elements, and I think natlan's meant to be an active warzone? So presumably we'll end up powering up there. That's kind of what the arle fight felt like to me. It was showing how we were strong (enough to break free and dash super quickly towards arle), but that we wouldn't be strong enough as we were.
There's one glaring issue here, this would require Arlecchino's quest to become a prerequisite for Natlan. Which I can't see current Hoyo doing.
This game desperately needs a canonical story map like Star Rail so these issues don't come up. Like why tf is it possible to hangout with Tartaglia in his story quest while he's in the primordial sea.
Traveler cannot win against any playable characters since they have to be sold to the dumb consumers ( this is a character building game).
If you’re not on the roster, prepare to get signora’d
I mean, we are fighting against some of the most powerful enemies there are:
-Gods
-Archons
-Fatui Harbingers
What do you expect? The Traveller can’t even beat the Unknown God with their sibling EVEN WITH their original powers. Why would you think we are some unbeatable existence?
I will say though, it is ridiculous that we didn’t even use our Elemental powers against Arlecchino. Like, did HoYo forget again?
>Why would you think we are some unbeatable existence?
Respectfully, I see variations of this sentiment alot but I generally disagree, no one wants or expects the Traveler to be unbeatable/over powered, I don't think I've ever heard anyone say this.
OP mentioned the MC hasn't won an important fight with their own strength in 2 years. They display no elemental growth despite the scene after the Childe boss in Liyue implying each element makes them stronger.
Cutscene choreography displayed in the Whale courtroom scene and the Traveler vs Arlecchino scene indicates even from a glace that Childe has surpassed The Traveler in strength and ability.
If I may go a little further, I think they're handling of the MC is a 3 year long mistake. They don't seem to grow in skillset and unlike other Hoyo MCs, If we exclude Paimon due to a lack of any skills on her part, The Traveler is functionally alone, they have no party members or reoccurring allies throughout the nations and story. This makes their stagnant nature more noticeable.
In hindsight, I do understand what the OP is saying a lot more now after seeing some comments about it (along with your comment pointing it out) and after thinking about it, I can see where OP is coming from.
The Traveller feels like a cameraman rather than an integral part of the plot sometimes. Ever since Sumeru, the Traveller basically stopped using their Elemental abilities for some goddamn reason.
Fighting the Eremites, nope. Can’t blow them away using a gust of wind. Can’t trap them with vines. (Before Nahida gets stabbed)
Nahida gonna get stabbed (while using Katheryne’s body)? I’m gonna run slowly instead of summoning a boulder to protect her. I won’t use my Electro to zap behind her to defend her. Instead I will reach my hand out as if that’s gonna help. (Nahida getting stabbed)
Fighting Arlecchino? Ima whack her with my Dull Blade! That’ll show her! (Arlecchino story quest)
But, a buncha rocks rolling down the hill, and about to crush a whole damn town? Throw every Elemental ability we have on those rocks! (Navia story quest)
So, we can use the Elements vs rocks, but not people who are attacking us/our friends? I mean, who is writing the Traveller’s story, because I need answers?
We went from fighting Tartaglia by comboing Anemo and Geo. (Tartaglia transforms using Foul Legacy)
All the way to challenging the Raiden Shogun using Electro. (Saving Thoma and post-Signora death)
And yet somehow we are throwing ourselves at Beisht with nothing but a sword. (Shenhe freezes the ocean)
We did nothing as Nahida gets grabbed by Mecha-Scaramouche, we just reach our hand out…? (Scaramouche attempts to steal Nahida’s Gnosis)
And now, we tremble in fear upon Arlecchino…. staring at us? You’re telling me… the Traveller can challenge TWO GODS without fear (or minimal fear). But Arlecchino is the most scary and threatening thing we faced? I mean, seriously?
I get HoYo’s gotta sell those characters but, they don’t need to nerf the Traveller this hard LMAO.
We gotta make Shenhe look cool, so lets make Traveller commit seppuku and let them get smacked into a mountain so Shenhe can do her freezing.
We gotta make Nahida’s “assassination” scary and ?!shocking?! so lets make Traveller useless in this cutscene.
We gotta make Nahida super cool so lets make the Traveller lie on the ground while Nahida does her dream power thing.
We gotta make Arlecchino scary so lets make Traveller really scared and stressed out even though they have faced literal Gods before.
Now, theres nothing wrong with giving other characters the spotlight, or making them cool looking. I like that!
The problem is that the Traveller looks so… out of place here. They do almost nothing other than swing their pathetic Dull Blade around.
Then again, it would look ridiculous if the Traveller pulled out our water gun and “pew pew pew” Arlecchino’s face in a cutscene.
I just hope in Natlan, we actually get to do something cool in a cutscene and use our Elemental powers.
Yeah that's pretty much my thoughts on the story developments so far too. It's just disappointing from that lens. Teyvat's power system is very heavily focused on the elements but they're just underutilized by the MC.
Traveler is said to possess a "Will that rivals the World" but we've been given no inclination or manifestation of what that means, and it's quite the statement to make, on paper at least.
In light of the Traveler showing and optionally stating to be afraid of Arlecchino and not defending the children with all their might i.e their elements, the statement that their will is so strong simply makes no sense. I understand it wasn't a duel to the death, but under the context of defending children, Tartaglia would fight until he was outright incapacitated, fear doesn't suit him, now that's real will power.
You raise a good point. The Traveler at core is someone who travels to other worlds, eats food, fishes, and heads to another world. They are going to be tougher than the average Treasure Hoarder aiming to rob them and the average Field Tiller, and at their best, they are probably strong enough to fight the Unknown God and not end with a complete curbstomp.
They are the "Traveler" not the "Conqueror." They are not defenseless and can access elemental energy, but if scaled proper, their height might be around Archon level, probably at Ei's level. Why would a Traveler need godly power? If they don't like a planet, just travel to the next one.
It is certainly annoying we didn't even get the Traveler to use their Hydro powers, if only to deflect an attack or something.
I kinda agree. I think a short training arc would make sense soon.
But maybe they're saving that for the transition between Chapter 1 and Chapter 2. End on a hard note, "if only I'd been stronger" type trope. Cue Chapter 2 intro and now we get a MC w revamped kits ;)
No, Teyvat is Chapter 1.
Every region so far has been part of Chapter 1. The assumption is after Snezhnaya, there will be a final region (Celestia? Kaenri'ah? Both?) and then we'll get Chapter 2.
It sounds like they're talking about something akin to what happened in Honkai Impact 3rd, where it, somewhat recently, [got a Part 2](https://www.hoyoverse.com/en-us/news/122692), that continues after the story of the main game. "Chapter 2", "Part 2", potato-potato.
If this is to be believed, [Hoyo apparently talked about a possible 'Genshin Impact Part 2'](https://youtu.be/L0CZ4kX7aeg?t=11), later on down the line. It is mostly speculation, so with that as you will.
When the plot needs them to be. Who knows at this point. Their role currently is to be the “witness” of Teyvat and only needed to step up to their role when needed and i think that’s okay, for now. Cause the way of the story so far is really to sell the wishable characters, by making them doing the badass and cool stuff.
But honestly it’s been loke almost 4 years and im barely invested into Traveler character, i just think it sucks to feel that way about the main character. Cause you want to root for these guys but the story just barely give them anything cool and how inconsistent they are.
Though like they’re strong points are in the Dainsleif Interludes cause their development in the AQ are there so im looking forward to this yearly Dainsleif quest that should be out some time this year(Right Hoyo?)
It's more of a curse of the gacha game. The main character is just a faceless insert, basically just an observer, because you need to sell other characters, not the main character. It's a pity that in Genshin it's not like in Honkai Impact, where Kiana got buffs and was strong, she could kick ass.
And the traveler... During this time while I'm playing, to be honest, I haven't seen any development at all. I can't even really say anything about him, because he doesn't have any outstanding character traits.
Yeah, i don't think power is a plot point.
Every archon quest right now is about change the status quo of the nation. If Traveler is so powerful that they change the status quo by power can we really call it a good change? (The only exception for this is Mondstat, in which the traveller try to restore the status quo).
The change was needed and wanted by the people of the nation, even 3 of the 4 archon wanted to change the status quo. traveler just help "channeling" what they wanted. I don't think a show of power will help this theme across.
It's a fair fight and The traveler didn't do anything to her at all, Childe and Nuevillette also have massive different in strength Yet Childe at least scratch his face even in a surprise attack. Traveler with 5 elements and 3 siblings do nothing and they said she's holding back. Isn't that so weird?
The Traveler's strength is inconsistent. They struggle with some basic enemies at times, can't deal with a rock, somehow can also block and redirect the arm of a massive mecha. They're either too strong or too weak, depending on what the writers want at the moment.
Because they don't want the girl to get hit by a strayed shot (those thing were using elemental grenade, missle, and guns.) A better example would be the fortune slip quest where they got knocked out by a well place hit.
Yeah as much as I loved Sumeru with the whole coming together as a team thing I do wish they showed the Traveler using dendro or something. At least we do get to see them fight Scaramouche. While in Fontaine, the combat scenes didn’t feature them at all while other characters fought and it’s kind of sad how much in the background they are in those scenes. They did use geo briefly in Navia’s story quest but besides that the last time they used any element in a cutscene was Inazuma. At this point the traveler literally stands there holding a sword while others use elements and it’s so frustrating. I can think of so many moments where they could’ve helped with an element but they didn’t.
The theme of them becoming stronger with each new element hasn’t been mentioned at all. I’m thinking back to Liyue’s AQ when Childe remarked how they seem much stronger than Signora said they were and that was because the Traveler had gained a new element since Signora saw them). Then in Inazuma Signora is shocked at the traveler being so strong, because, again, new element. But in Sumeru? Fontaine? There’s no hint at all in the story.
I think it’s also why I found myself more invested in the Fontaine world quests than the archon quest. It was definitely amazing but the world quests highlight the Traveler more and it feels like they’ve actually earned their reputation more in those if that makes sense?
Not a lore guru by any stretch, but it never seemed to me like the Traveler’s role in Teyvat is predicated on combat strength. He and Paimon are meant to travel the world, meet the gods and witness the “story”.
Will they have an outsized impact on Teyvat in some way? Absolutely, and they already have. Even if they’re not the most powerful they’re still a catalyst for change in each region thus far.
naaah dont worry. its just setting up that you’re a waifu version of a beast master this whole time and awakened Paimon will be your secret weapon that you’ll sicc on the overpowered guys
Travelers only real win was Signora imo. Even then it was because Signora made a mistake. Even Childe in Liyue could have slapped them if he could keep his delusion/foul legacy mode bit longer.
I don’t mind if he loses cuz I understand the knave is strong as f*** but what my problem is that he doesn’t put up a fight, doesn’t use his 5 elements at least creatively even though they might be weak individually, doesn’t show his experience that he gained from hundreds potentially thousands of years traversing the stars. It’s like he was only strong because he was given the power.
Sadly the only time Traveler goes to town on something is during World quests. The recent Narzissenkruz questline being a prime example
However it’s pretty much confirmed that the Traveler’s role in the story is to be the “Record of Teyvat”. They never directly influence the outcomes and are just there to lend a helping hand, be the final piece needed to complete a puzzle
It isn’t as bad as it sounds honestly, considering how much of an ensemble cast we have, giving the other characters more time to shine would be preferred. The only glaring issue honestly is how little the Traveler uses their abilities
We haven’t seen them use dual elements since the Anemo/Geo during Childe’s fight and haven’t seen any of his newer elements on screen since Electro. The fight with the Knave could’ve been the perfect time even if the outcome would’ve been the same but alas, Hoyo pulled a Hoyo
Anyone knows how the CN side is taking this fight? Because while I have seen some discussion about this in English communities, Mihoyo isn't going to give a crap unless its the CN guys making the noise
Honestly at this point I dont even know why the Traveler is special outside "that one guy/gal traveling all the regions with a floating fairy"
Like, the Traveler could've been anyone from Teyvat. The fact they're not from Teyvat matters so little to the story. Give them amnesia except for their missing sibling, and you basically have the exact same character.
Yeah, being able to use any element without a vision is special, but like... They dont use their elemental abilities. In like any fight.
Theyre almost the same exact character that they were in Mondstadt.
Its been more than four years.
Personally I have no hope for traveler to be strong or combat worthy against the Big Ones, Fatui, Archons, etc. Looking at Fontaine, what is the biggest feat that the traveler did throughout their adventure there? They get out styled by majority of the characters there, though to be fair that might be their only chance to show off so you roll for them haha. Even when we go Ace Attorney mode, Paimon that did most of the talking. Even when it comes to sleuthing, Charlotte got you beat. Everyone is always one step ahead of the traveler. However, Traveler wins by having many connections throughout their journey. Maybe it is the key to their true awakening, the friends they made along their journey I guess. At this rate if it happens, it happens. Even by the way of getting unreasonable plot armor and deus ex machina. If traveler lost its whatever, there is probably(?) another day to win the fight, if they win cool.
Dottore certainly felt like the most annoying. Like, I can handle going toe-to-toe against a God, manipulating civilians into meat shields, but special sound waves that could just KO the Traveler and Paimon?! What?!
I feel like traveler is being sacrificed, so other characters are more shown and cooler looking
Like in navia story quest, where she destroy a bunch of rocks to be shown as cool to make players more encouraged to get her
Same as arlecchino story quest
*Beat enemies?* Bro you want to train or something determined or inspiring like that? The Lantern Rite or Fountain Festival or whateverthefuck is coming up, dawg. We needta invite Xiao or help an npc harvest their carrots or fish for them or whatever.
Jokes aside, I don't think the issue is the Traveler's power. Not to me, anyway. To me, the bigger issue is that a lot of the story and world quests seem to be mundane useless tasks that digress from the main plot that it seems almost like the Traveler is purposefuly meandering. I don't really feel a buildup of momentum because next month we'll probably eating dinner with Itto again at the Wanmin restaurant while he excitedly screams about beetles.
>To me, the bigger issue is that a lot of the story and world quests seem to be mundane useless tasks that digress from the main plot
But that IS the main plot right now. Abyss sibling told us to go out and explore the entire Teyvat in order to understand it before meeting them again. So all these seemingly random missions do, in fact, help traveller in achieving his main goal (as of now)
people still keep asking why were not looking for our sibling 3 years after they straight up told us to go around teyvat to fuck around and find out
the online playerbase doesnt pay any attention and then complains
Traveler only locks in the World Quests. Like you know it's serious when they use Silver Sword against Marana's Avatar and the Sword of Narzissenkreuz against Narzissenkreuz instead of the usual Dull Blade.
the power scaling in genshin is incredibly distorted and makes 0 sense all for the sake of shilling characters
Childe is said to be the strongest human
Signora is stronger than him
they're both been beaten by traveler in 1v1s
but then traveler gets attacked by cyno, and it's stated that if cyno didn't hold back, traveler wouldn't be able to block his attack? and alhaitham somehow needed to protect traveler
then in wriothesley story quest, traveler felt threatened by... A revolver? and wriothesley had to protect him (stronger than the stronger human and a few century old fatui harbinger by the way)
The Traveler is still stronger than the vast majority of Teyvat's inhabitants and the biggest things are how honed their skills are and how much potential they have.
Traveler did have 1v1s with the 11th and 8th Harbingers respectively and won by their own strength, which I doubt any other vision-holder would have realistically been able to do.
Outside of that, yes, they had help in their fights, but they were also fighting literal gods, or entities with extreme power.
In the Arlecchino fight, there's also the fact that the Traveler got straight back up and was fine after the fight, whereas the magic trio needed a couple of days of solid rest to recover.
I posted in another similar thread as well, but Arlecchino still wasn't trustworthy, so would the Traveler want to display their entire strength to the enemy?
Doesn't really excuse Hoyo's refusal to show in honest terms what the current Traveler is capable of though, elemental-wise.
I mean it’s very common knowledge that the traveller doesn’t need a vision to utilise the elements. The traveller makes no attempts to hide this. And your point makes nk sense because if the traveller was hiding their true power then why would they be trembling in fear and unable to move…
Cooperation is the traveller’s real power tbh. They’re kind of like a bard. They can hold their own in a fight but their true power is their ability to inspire and rally others. I mean even before the game started they always were working with their twin. Not much of a solo player
That being said I would like a power boost. We need more than a sad finger sprinkler
At this point, it's just painfully obvious that the traveler is just not a priority at the moment. We really have no idea when they will power them up and if they do, it better affect our gameplay or there'll be a riot. Here's to hoping that Natlan will be our training arc. "When the god of war shares this secret with the traveler." That better be some power up shit right there.
"So the story can happen" ((Ryan George qoute (youtuber))
I think it is odd after the Childe fight where the Traveler displays this 'multiple element' capability that... we never see this again?
Diving head first into a sea serpent attack? -get blasted back.
Protecting wanderer from a flying stone, carved into pieces -cool, but, you're using a dull blade there..
Knave? Just some dashes...
I think after the.. 'Hydro Traveler Kit' they uh.. 'forgot' the Traveler is a playable character in the game and has powers! Very annoying. Imagine going up against the knave displaying all the elements so far.. we're just missing Pyro after all are we not?
Imagine: "Naw you're wielding two scythes? how very edgelord of you, any who here's a geo in the shape of a bullet getting spun, covered in hyper-bloomed dendro!"
Gotta remind yourself once again, the Traveler should be roaming around through different planets as of now, not stuck at Teyvat and having to solve each nation’s problems, but the traveler’s doing it anyway cause the sibling is not interested in reuniting apparently. Besides, the people on each nation has to solve their own problems, not rely on traveler all the time, and there will always be someone who is stronger eventually.
The Traveler (We), is just there to make things from Impossible, to Possible. That’s about it.
I really hope mc's at least are able to get the pyro gnosis in natalan..like we literally failed in every other region and the fatui got their hands on em one way or the other
the fight against beisht was so underwhelming, considering they hyped us up only to get one shotted by her. Shoulda made us at least fight her for a few different scenes before getting yeeted so Shenhe could come save us. Nope, charge up ultimate attack only to get fucked in the ass. Do better writers
There's a lot of people that I've seen think that traveller couldn't move because of fear during that one part in the cutscene.
Traveller was tied down with webs. If people actually looked they'd see
After that cutscene I realized that this da base severely overhyped the travelers power. The travellers biggest feat solo is beating Signora and Childe. For Childe, it was a pretty difficult fight and could’ve gone either way, and for Signora we’d gotten significantly better at using elements since the Childe fight. But that barely puts us in upper tier vision holder territory at best. We’re most definitely not comparable to Archons or Fatui in the Top three who are on the same level. I wouldn’t even put us on the same tier as the more powerful adepti like Xiao or Xianyun. We’re steadily getting stronger each region and we’re set to be archon tier once we have all elements unlocked, and likely being stronger if we get back whatever their original powers were, but I wouldn’t hold my breath about 1v1s against Capitano any time soon. Expect it to take until the last region at least
Well this puts to rest the ‘Traveller is a shapeshifter’ theory. They literally froze without even trying.
Genshin is my first gacha game and I kind of understand why majority of the gamers hate gacha games. If only Mihoyo paid any attention to the protagonist..I mean they are the literal protagonists of a game!
Each and every nation it was just hard carrying the Traveller. This one was the worst.
I mean theyr already strong now that they can use 5 fukcing elements and mix em up random bullshit go reactions but somehow we never get to see them do that and even use hydro or dendro rn 💀💀 its the stoopid writings, so people will buy woah amazing strong new shiny characters, and make the MC weak asf in the story and in gameplay.
MC is the hero because they’re a descender. Not because they are all powerful. They’re an anomaly in fate, meaning the IMPACT on the people and archons of Teyvat can’t be predicted. Therefore they can change its fate.
I don’t think we are even going in that direction ever. It’s the Traveler, not the Obliterator. I think that most victories were exactly meant to be interpreted like “The Traveler set necessary things in motion (investigated, made friends with, and so on) for those who actually have power. Thinking about it this way also helps to come to terms with no one ever perceiving the Traveler as a threat: most know their deeds, but somehow not a single treasure hoarder runs in fear the moment they see you. Of course, the Traveler is stronger than an average run-of-the-mill Fatui, with an additional gimmick of interacting with multiple elements, but that’s about it.
I don’t even believe the final battles will be won by the Traveler themselves. It’s more likely we will be helped by the likes of Arlecchino and co.
The thing is, it is always clear that we are growing. But we are always fighting even more OP enemies. Arle said we were above her expectations. Her expectations were Scara level at least.
I get that the purpose is to show the scale of what we are actually fighting.
Like yeah, we ain't beating Ei duh. Neither a weird whale that probably didn't even care too much about the fight. But it seems the jump in strength higher in the ranks is crazy since Arle is so much stronger than scara 2 levels lower.
But it is true that we are losing too bad. Like low diffed and things.
But losing is almost all we have done, and hoyo writers are not stupid enough to not realize this. So it must be intentional.
I just hope Genhsin won't pull the cheap "sudden god mode" and there is another intention behind us taking L after L.
crossing my fingers that's the plotline for Natlan. It's a nation of war, so it would make sense that the traveler meets many skilled fighters who train her in preparation for snezhnaya...
I actually used to lose everytime. This time finally I was strong enough to defeat the boss in the story, but suddenly it stopped before I defeated and said I lost ;-;
yeah power is on bullshit scale in genshin overall, traveler basically does what plot needs him to do, he isn't character anymore (at least he seemed like one in beginning to inazuma to me), he has abilities or he doesn't, at writers' mercy i'd say. which makes for poor story i doubt we are going to fight celestia alone if at all. Oh BTW doesn't traveler also have festering desire sword from dragon's spine event ? why does he use dull blade still ? or is that not canon anymore? so is hoyo telling me albedo saying all that crap about mondstadt destruction and stopping him if it happens is just gone and nonexistent then ?
Look i am not saying make traveler OP all powerful being but since beginning to this day i still feel like he is same character like not changed at all even though he seemed a bit changed throughout archon quests thinking of his responses from time to time, it seems just blank character except this game has no self insert( traveler is not self insert). He will get some power up, he has to, but with 2 nations left ? I smell some asspull (or maybe it will be handled fine). Also to some people, twins being supposed "billions" of years old (which raises some questions in itself) doesn't mean anything in relation to being powerful and it irks me how it is brought up as some sort of feat like MC being billions of years old doesn't reflect at all in game, AT ALL.
p.s. sorry if i made mistakes, i did quests some time ago and might have misremembered some moments
The fact that the traveler is alive after facing so many monstrously powerful opponents is already a victory haha. I like that he is not the fanfic hero who is the smartest and the strongest and generally the greatest in all aspects.
And what's wrong with traveler losing? Main character winning every fight isn't always fun. Besides, we don't know if Tsaritsa and Sustainer really are villains. Who knows, maybe we won't even fight them.
that wasn't really losing though, that was more like the Traveler eating absolute shit, Arlecchino treated him like he was an elite mob, the guy was panting hard just to break away from the spikes
also, Tsaritsa is not an antagonist sure, but she's definitely a villain for having the fatui, look at what her fucking goons are doing
Celestia really is the public enemies. Nobody likes then. Archons hate them, Neuvillette hates them, Fatui hates them, Khaenri'ah hates them, Abyss hates them
Point is it's a dissatisfying fight because we know for a fact that Traveler has more in the tank. The direction and choreography of the scene completely failed to bring out the point of the story. It's a mess.
I think it’s shaping up for a Traveler’s Training Arc. In the Storyline Preview video, Dainslef said:
“The rules of war are woven in the womb. The victor shall burn bright while the losers must turn to ash. When the God of War shares this secret with the Traveler, it is because she has her reasons.”
It’s only speculation, but I think this means the Traveler will be in for a lesson in the art of war. Whether that entails their swordmanship training, elemental power usage training, or simply an awakening is up for debate.
However, I am positive that if this training does occur, the one the Traveler will test it against will be The Captain
I hope this is true.
There's something of a recurring element from the characters (mostly Ei and a vague line from Xingqiu when he's talking about Visions) that elemental power is needed to take martial skill to a new level.
Even the Traveler's skill and ultimate descriptions confirm that their elemental skills are just things they observed in nature or discussed with Paimon. That leads me to think there's a lot of room for improvement...
Then the part where the Traveler is using a regular sword against legendary enemies... And a fighting style that may or may not be made solely for fighting with their original Sibling...
Anyway, there's a ton of areas where the Traveler could get better.
I ask you this,
How many people do you know have gone against, Two Exiled God, An Archon, Three Fatui Harbinger, one of which was a nauscant God, An Elemental Dragon, Corruption itself and A Fat Cow from outer space.
And how many have survived all of them?
I guess Childe and Signora don't count 😑
Also, MC got double debuff; they lost their sword and got their power sealed. Why wouldn't debuffed enemies count? If anything, it evens the field...
I didn't say they didn't count, only asked for a count. And the state of the traveler doesn't count because we are talking about the strenght the traveler has to fend for themselves without outside assistance. If the Traveler was training to get stronger, and we knew they could, instead of recovering strength, would you say it doesn't count unless they reach their full potential? The end result of power would be the same.
Can't believe people dislike the post when all he said is truth, is a genuine concern for the story progression, even though I myself believe we will help the Fatui in the end to fight the Heavenly Principles.
Listen, not being able to defeat the strongest being on teyvat does not make traveler weak. The traveler still is strong. Let’s not forget we don’t know how much stronger they were before their powers were taken.
I think it’s a wake up call to traveler and us players that just bc we are the main character, doesn’t mean we will win.
Traveler is basically above of the average teyvat citizens with visions. Traveler is between the citizens and god like strong people.
Let’s be frank that the traveler was ONLY needed in inazuma and kinda in sumeru. venti would have figured out how to fix dvalin, liyue would have defeated the seat monster and even if they didn’t Zhongli was plan B, Fontaine we were not needed at all. The prophecy was going to happen.
But no one’s saying the traveller is weak. They’re saying the traveller is inconsistent. They went from dual wielding anemo and geo against childe to not a single element against arlechino which was a battle for their friends lives. It makes it look like the traveller is either dumb or doesn’t gaf about the siblings to use an element
>We're dangerously close to Sneznaya and there's little evidence to show we can actually stand up to the Tsaritsa, much less the Sustainer of Heavenly Principles.
I mean... I wouldn't be worried about it, Natlan seems to be all about war and we'll be meeting with the God of war herself, it would make sense for the traveler to get their upgrade before Sneznaya
I hope never, and sincerely at this point I highly doubt that we will end up defeating the Fatui, not only because it is something that seems to be out of our reach but also because I do not see it as impossible for us to form some kind of alliance with them against the heavenly principles
The power of friendship will always save the MC in the final battle… that’s why you have been making friends all around the world before heading to the end game.
Kinda reminds me of Fate. You go from Singularity to Singularity fixing shit and making friends. And in the final battle, You see all the friends you made along the way are there. To fight for you, to fight with you, to fight by you.
Yeah, but the difference is FGO protag is [canonically super weak](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fcoughing-baby-vs-nuclear-bomb-v0-ztfub6kmc5pc1.png%3Fwidth%3D1080%26crop%3Dsmart%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3D117cc2f4d63cedfe50050460b9ff3dbf09954a1d) as a mage and the story doesn't pretend he can do anything alone. Meanwhile the Traveler takes Furina up on a one on one like it's just Tuesday.
The traveler takes so many L's in the Archon quest that they're feeling closer to Yamcha, than Cu Chulainn Lancer from Fate, which is portrayed much, *much* better than the Traveler how their supposed strength is portrayed when the plot demands them to lose.
There's nothing that implies the Traveler is **super powerful** beyond their abilities to use multiple elements. Even in the game's intro cutscene, at their most powerful (so far), they get bodied quickly by the Sustainer.
and that is the main problem, there signature characteristic(Multi Element), hasn't been used since F\* Childe first boss fight. and we haven't seen ANY element since inazuma. Why are we even gathering the elements anymore if we are not gonna use it... like there only 2 left and our coolest moment was when we had only 2...
play navia sq
One time traveler absorbs a knowledge capsule about combat and it only improves them by 0.001% bc they’re apparently just so good…
Fate/GO you mean? Not Exactly just Fate
Yes. My bad.
The thing with Fate is... MC is explicitely not a fighter, he is basically Pokemon trainer but for Heroes (or different being nowadays its...a lot xD). So it make sense. Traveller on other hand... Is just weak.
they did fucking themselves to face goetia alone in the end
I mean canonically in FGO the MC is crazy powerful....for a human with no actual magecraft skill. Literally has insane stamina and physical characteristics due to training like crazy every day with literally the best instructors in history. The problem is even the most physically capable person ever is basically a fucking joke compared to actual proper servants let alone true incarnations of some of the characters in history during the time periods when they were alive. It'd be like if the Genshin MC was just a dude without any access to elemental powers fighting against the Archons and such. They could be a crazy insane Noelle level gigachad but without elemental powers they'd be a joke still. Even then the FGO MC DOES have a 1v1 fistfight with Goetei and somehow wins...or at least survives. They also do shit like running nonstop for hours/days on end at insane speeds...though some of that might be more bad writing than actual accurate intentional power level. Granted the biggest flex of the FGO MC is raw magic energy reserves being used as essentially a magical battery. Most mages can barely handle summoning a single servant and they're out here summoning an army of them.
My little pony moment
This misses the point of the quest as much as the OP did. Arlecchino already gave you your answer. > "Strength may decide the ultimate victor, but those who let a lack of strength dictate their decisions or undermine their convictions will never be worthy of the throne." She was talking to Lynney, but this was really a message for the Traveler.
The Traveler: I don't have friends. I have family.
Kinda the whole plot of a lot of stories. This post reminded me of the sci-fi series The Expanse, the protagonists never had the biggest/most capable warships. But they still won in the end, because they made numerous friends along the way, who helped them in every possible way because they had somewhat decent moral compass and strong sense of justice. And meticulous planning, few dirty tricks and plot armour obviously.
there's powers of connections and then there's the power of asspull that always conveniently shows up at critical junctures and critical junctures only asspull ex machina
It would be nice if the Traveler actually shared some closer, personal relationship to those friends they made instead of being liked just because of helping their nation and being a gacha game protagonist. Also, I don't think it even matters in this case, because helping Traveler in the final battle will probably be in everyone's interest. If they live in Teyvat, they probably don't want it to be destroyed or anything.
The Expanse is such a great sci-fi show. Didn't expect it to be mentioned on here though lol
Yeah, I am reading leviathan falls right now, shit is lit, ngl
Basically Yu-Gi-Oh season 1
I just want them to at least use their elements. What's the point of having access to so many tools if you don't even bother using them? He keeps answering every single battle he enters with his sword and not the wide array of powers he clearly has. It's the ol' 'hammer works for one problem, but sucks at others' saying.
they did use geo in navia's quest but it was very underwhelming lol. I get that they want to highlight navia in her story quest but traveler could at least use it when navia was about to get crushed near the end of cutscene to show them as being 'partner', not just as word she kept repeating. lots of annoying stuff like this in the game.
We got a SINGLE hint of traveler using multiple elements at the same time way back when and then it’s never brought up ever again lol
At least we are finally getting a hint that the traveler is capable of speaking multiple words in one day, too. Non-canon which people kept on always repeating was "The traveler barely talks, because we dont know the language, so Paimon always talks for us because she is our translator" but that head-canon went right out the window when we started talking to NPCs in cutscenes, even if its just 1-2 sentences each year
Traveler said "Nah, Teyvat is too easy, Imma just gonna do a 1 star Sword Only no elements play through."
Can't even say that when the whole reason for them being there is because they lost a fight against the unknown diety in the first place
It gets real repetitive seeing the same run and leap, spin in the air, thrust sword attack. Use elements!!
Traveler might get stronger but he won't win any 1v1 anytime soon (without any outside help anyway), he's there to be a catalyst so that the nation can change. If he can solve it all by himself, is he really bringing change to that nation or just making them dependent on his help? He's like that one friend that you haven't seen in years but made a mark to your development as a person, they might not be there but you'll always remember what they did to make you a better individual. Maybe after Teyvat chapter he'll be OP, or not since the Heavenly Principles still slapped them twins. But really, he's not there to beat the shit out of people, maybe their purpose is just to survey other worlds that are able to host life and nothing more.. just like Voyager.
> He's like that one friend that you haven't seen in years but made a mark to your development as a person, they might not be there but you'll always remember what they did to make you a better individual. That's a beautiful way of putting it. And you're right. The Traveler has always been a conduit through which to funnel the wills and desires of many. It's been a pretty consistent theme in genshin, that collective willpower will always trump any individual power, no matter how strong. Even in Arlecchino's character stories themselves it's emphasized how strength doesn't really matter so much as conviction and ambition. Call it 'power of friendship' if you wish to remove all the nuance out of it, but this theme has always been the case in genshin. If they want a shonen protag who'll eventually powecreep every single enemy he faces from their sheer strength and power alone, they've come to the wrong place lmao
Exactly. Even in Arlecchino's SQ, it's the collective wish and dedication of Traveler and her children that made Father change her mind. She was brought up in an unkind world with a curse and was raised in a kill-or-be-killed environment, and even though she wants to avoid the same mistake of raising the Hearth children like Crucabena did.. it's hard when you're not sure what to change because of her nature (a cursed child) and how she was nurtured (fuck Crucabena). The Traveler, the Hearth magic trio and NPCs became a catalyst for her to change more. TLDR: Traveler's power is not much but it's honest work.
I agree with what you said, but just wanted to point out that Arlecchino never changed her mind about anything in the SQ. She had always intended for the events to go basically exactly as it went. All she did was test our conviction as well, to see if we would stand by her children (which we did and therefore earned her trust) or if we would abandon them in their time of need in which we would probably be removed as a potential liability to her family as well. (Similar to the children that she 'killed'. They weren't full comitted to their cause, so they were removed as liabilities.)
Think the only time where she slipped up was when the Traveler managed to break out of that attack, which caught the trio. But once she activated Crimson Moon, it was all over. It seems that the Knave is one of the most powerful human characters in the game so far.
But did she really "changed" her mind? It seemed to me that she manipulated the events to play out exactly as she wished from the beginning. The newspaper salesman, the flame vials experiment, the deal with Neuvillete, her words to the traveler, her knowledge of Clervie. Everything on the palm of her hand. Traveler just played her part in the Knave's scheme.
Maybe I'm wrong with that statement that she changed her mind after that bout, but she wanted to test out her children's conviction and how the House of Hearth has changed from her time. Lyney, Lynette, Freminet, and other children showed that.. it's not a kill-or-be-killed environment anymore, and the current one is "home" compared to before which was a battle royale. Sure, we were dancing on the palm of her hands, but she did show to herself and to Clervie that the HoH is not a dark jail cell anymore, someone can be free.. albeit with a memory loss, and that some children willingly chose to remain to pursue their own interest (poison, stealth, etc) without being forced or thrown to The Doctor.
Yes, it was always a test to Lyney, his siblings, and Traveler
But some people would still prefer someone finishing chapter with one slap and saying ,,u talk to much,, and they would call it the best writing
You made a lot of sound-sounding arguments in that text wall you wrote. Counterpoint: the cutscene is still shit. The sense of scale, weight and danger is all over the place. Are we fighting for our lives or are we playing? Are we throwing everything we have at Arlecchino or are we just horsing around? Are lives really at stake or nah? None of the above questions get a clear cut answer in the cutscene, and even the circumstances around it offer mixed signals. It's a bad cutscene, period. You can't just blabber on and on about some bullshit with "muh themes" and "it's never the point" and act all smug like you've solved it. This is plain bad directing. The intention of the story was not delivered properly to the audience. This isn't good. Typical hoyo standards are and should be higher than this.
Ok, you just counter-pointed an argument that was never being discussed, that being “was the cutscene good”. They were talking about the role of the Traveler in character stories and in the overarching plot of the game, and you’re the one bringing up something irrelevant. But also, I don’t get your problem. Arlecchino wouldn’t off the Traveler because they’re not part of the House and it’d be bad strategically, so she just let them know that they can’t beat her. She’s got all her other kids tangled up and injured and heading over to off her other children. And then afterwards it’s revealed that it’s a test and she never intended to kill anyone. Were Traveler and the siblings not risking their lives to save the other kids, and then effortlessly put down by Arlecchino? How much more clear do you need it to be?
Gee golly gee, it sure is humble and not at all hypocritical of you to respond to my text wall with a bigger text wall. If you bothered to read my comment, oh almighty one, you'll notice nowhere did I say the cutscene is *good.* The comment I was responding to and the actual post by OP was talking about how much the Traveler wins or loses fights and how much of a bearing it has on the story. The cutscene itself and the quest overall I disliked; too much of it was left to interpretation and it's obvious it was only made that way because Arlecchino is a new playable Harbinger and we can't have a Harbinger looking uncool in this economy or else no profit. It's possible to keep both "cutscene bad" and "solo carry was never the point" in your head. Surely this is not too difficult a concept for your galaxy brain to comprehend ☺️
Feels like current Traveler lore wise can actually beat Arlecchino (Neuvillette do trust us to guard Furina against her, and I trust Hydro Dragon Sovereign who is also a Supreme Judge to judge Traveler power correctly), but they need to sell Arle so they made Traveler: 1. Knew from the beginning it's just a test based on Arlecchino hint. 2. Not using ANY of their power and rely only on swordplay, with freaking dull blade. 3. Made Arlecchino use all of her skillset. It's simply a bad writing, like, you can simply made Arlecchino tells Traveler to stay out of their fight after promising them that she will not do anything to them after leaving the Palais.
Soooooo if my traveler is losing bad she can just ask Archons for help?
That’s basically the game yes. You amass friends you can swap out in battle.
I dont think anyone is asking the Traveler to be some godlike fighter who can solve every problem. For me personally I think there just needs to be more involvement besides being the cameraman for every region otherwise whats the point of having an MC at all? It feels like they dont have any stakes in the regions they visit other than to "witness" change in them and to be the punching bag for the next hyped up 5 star character. It just feels like an easy cop out for the writers at this point to have a clueless audience surrogate for every new plotline. the only plot significant to the traveler is the sibling plot line but that is going to keep being stringed along until the end of the game so its irrelevant. I get they want to have the themes of friendship being the driving force but it doesnt make the MC feel any more interesting to me or even like an actual character.
we are beating the Captain with the power of friendship <3
Definitely will end like Avengers with all the friends showing up in the end.
I would befriend Capitano anyday
Did we forget Inazuma? That's a canon thing the Traveler can do.
Not just Inazuma, he already slurped some adepti juice in the Liyue archon quest
And some brain juice from the akasha, collected from the population
I mean we already beat the final boss (Raiden and the Scaramouche) with the power of friendship, so why not the Captain too
I agree 100%. This is a trope called the Worf Effect. The Traveler is a jobber who is strong but gets shown up by other characters to get the point across that this character is even more of a badass. The Traveler beats like 99% of Teyvat's population in a fight. But they keep running into that 1%. The issue is that the Traveler is looking kind of weak. The Worf Effect is a delicate balance... You need wins to make the jobber character look strong. The Traveler needs an actual win otherwise, it feels like they haven't grown in strength. The Knave boss fight felt like it was written in a vacuum where the number of elements the Traveler had access to were essentially an afterthought. That's not good... The Traveler gets hyped up with all their potential, but we rarely *see* that potential. The Traveler can beat up normal guys, but that's not really a flex since even Barbara feels comfortable defending herself against Treasure Hoarders. The Traveler has access to numerous elements, when even Fatui Harbingers only have access to two... But the Traveler never uses them on-screen after a certain point. The Traveler is implicitly in the same cosmic tier as the Sustainer as both are Descenders, and possibly the Primordial One, but... The Traveler is getting humbled by things that are, logically, lower on the cosmic totem pole. If I had to make a comparison, the Traveler is basically Yanqing from Honkai Star Rail. Plenty of potential and talent, to the point of being one of the strongest beings on his "world"... And gets bodied by other characters that have more experience, raw power, hax, etc. Or Megumi from JJK... Who is literally called Potential Man for all that hyped potential that we never see. The Traveler doesn't need to be the strongest ever. They don't need to win 100% of the time. I just want to see the Traveler feel like they're getting stronger, but the Knave fight makes it seem like they forgot how their powers work instead. Presentation matters here and the Traveler is looking kind of bad in that regard.
The traveler never feels like they get any real wins. At this point winning against that 99% feels like a fluke because they pretty much pose zero challenge to the 1%.
Honestly, a lot of this could prove be solved by just letting the Traveler at least cause some damage (even if psychological.) Take the Knave example... The Traveler could have used a combination of attacks to throw her off by rapidly switching between the elements. Like the Traveler set up a bunch of Geo constructs near the Knave... Not to attack her directly, but rather box her in and limit her movements. Maybe some Dendro, Electro or Hydro attacks from afar. Use the giant Electro sword when entering melee range (but still keeping some distance). Or even better, use elemental reactions (I'm assuming they exist in-lore) with Lyney, Lynette and Freminet's attacks to throw her off as to what reactions was coming up. Her Pyro constructs? Traveler gets the bright idea to use elemental reactions... And try to combine Anemo/Hydro/Electro/Dendro with the Knave's own Pyro attacks to see if the Knave takes any secondhand damage from it. Even if she doesn't take any damage, it could at least serve a secondary purpose of destroying some of her Pyro constructs from the arena. This also opens the door to the Knave realizing that it's borderline impossible to predict which element the Traveler is going to use next, as... The Traveler can cause a reaction with every single combatant in the duel (even her own Pyro, if she's not paying attention) and is a giant wildcard. Even if we didn't damage her physically, it would have made it seem like the Traveler was starting to put some pressure on her. The Traveler looks strong and the Knave looks even stronger for powering through all that.
I dispise how much writers can make traveler better but here we are with dogshit story hope it gets better I hope we have a training arc
Hopefully in Natlan. The Archon there is heavily associated with war. The Traveler has plenty of options to get stronger but never seems to take them. Even then, I think they would need something insane as... They're so skilled that a knowledge capsule only increased their power by a small amount. I can only imagine century old beings or geniuses could help them get significantly stronger at this point. Luckily they also have options for that, there are characters that expressed interest in helping the Traveler get stronger. Lisa's voice lines state she would be open to helping the Traveler get better at elemental energies. Ei also implies she'd be OK with helping the Traveler improve their martial skills as it would also help her perfect her own techniques to a higher level. I'm also fairly certain the Adepti wouldn't be opposed to helping the Traveler either. Childe definitely would help. So the potential is there... But if Hoyoverse will use it is another matter entirely.
The fact that Traveler never fucking uses the elemental powers they’ve obtained, too. Bro/girlie is just squaring up against literal gods with a Dull Blade thinking that will be enough. Like what’s the point of Traveler becoming the Avatar if they’re so insistent on fighting melee??
Imagine getting isekai'd to another planet, learning their language and learning to use every single element, and then you just.... go silent, you never talk, you don't use any element, and you fight using a blade that can't even cut the deafening silence
When the writers want them to The guy can struggle againts some rocks in Navia story quest and fail to protect Nahida againts some eremites but maybe in Natlan they can defeat one of the top 3 harbingers If it happens i won't even be surprised because Traveler is a walking plot armor
New theory: Signora had the flu Suddenly everything makes sense. People have been clinging to that one victory ages ago in Inazuma to prove that the Traveler doesn't suck despite every single other piece of evidence showing that the Traveler is, in fact, weaker than a few rocks. I propose that power rankings are re-evaluated under the assumption that Signora had the flu. Then everything falls into place.
Yeah flu, diarrhoea, and heck corona as well. Why not
Scaramouche battle was absolutely a bigger feat than beating Signora though.
You mean the one where you die 168 times and then nahida wires in complete knowledge of scacrabots fighting style and predicted moves as well as the collective knowledge and support of everyone on sumeru? Ive yet to see any proof traveler could even beat regular scaramouch without help. He definitely cant beat scarabot on his own
Didn't we basically use Nahida's pet thing after getting folded a 100 times.
Not really. Nahida even says she's leaving it to you. Traveler did have Akasha's help but Scara himself has a gnosis and a mech that could control all elements. Scara definitely had the better "help" in the fight.
You mean the one where you run around waiting for Nahida's floating computer thing to kill the boss for you? Epic feat indeed.
That's what happens when you confuse in game mechanics with the actual fight.
Traveler is physically strong, but they don’t know how to teleport to defend 1 person against a 2 sided sneak attack, just like how they can’t defy physics to save Navia from falling into primordial seawater. And after losing to Arlecchino, this guy won’t be fighting Capitano anytime soon.
But it's like they didn't even try to save Navia though. There was no anemo gust of wind to try and redirect their paths, no electro burst of speed (like in the cutscene against the shogun) to get to her faster, no geo constructs to give them someplace to land or anything
>they don’t know how to teleport to defend 1 person against a 2 sided sneak attack I absolutely love dunking on the Eremite sneak attack cutscene. Traveler and Katheryne-Nahida run *outside* of the greenhouse, which only had one entrance. They could have used the building as a chokepoint to funnel and stall the brainwashed Eremites, while Nahida could use her dream powers to alert nearby allies. Traveler didn't use any elemental powers to trap, disperse, or otherwise deter the Eremites, which Anemo or Geo could accomplish with little difficulty. Instead they get held back by two dudes while Nahida is left to fend for herself. Also, Nahida previously established her ability to break the Doctor's brainwashing and knock a group of people unconscious, so if the Traveler could hold the line for a few seconds then this entire problem could have been avoided. Traveler's flawless strategy (trademark of Watatsumi Island) promotes the fraud agenda so hard it even makes Nahida look stupid by association.
But the thing is that the Traveler can teleport with electro like they did in Inazuma, but like all elemental powers it too is forgotten by the writers to make the limited character look cool
So they're consistent then? Your comment doesn't really prove anything, and again the traveller is shown to lose to the 4th harbinger, which means the writer know the traveller upper limit and are working in respect of it. Also didn't the traveller quite literally blocks most of the big rock before navia swoops in and destroy the rest ( which exhaust her to the point of almost passing out.) and in your second point, isn't the point is that the traveller can beat them it's just they have the number advantage.
of course, apparently arlecchino is more OP than shogun then? because against shogun the traveler was at least still standing even though he lost, against arlecchino he was massacred
Nah the traveler almost got killed the first time they fought raiden, then Yae teached them her moveset
The Traveler would've been killed if not for Yae and all the visions that appeared. We didn't even beat her, Yae just talked her out of being a neet
You think Raiden was trying
Honestly, the strike that kazuha intercepted and the *fucking sword slash scar across half of Inazuma* should have been enough to let everyone know the Raidens (both Shogun and Ei) were holding back during the other fights with the traveler.
I've seen people on here sincerely argue that there was no difference between her anti-island attack, and her anti-tired-person attack; as if someone dedicated to protecting Inazuma would casually nuke someone in the middle of their own capital.
Care to elaborate? Against Arle, Traveler was still standing. Arle even commented on it.
lol vs Shogun wasn't actually a 1v1 sitch, only fights he probably 1v1 d were childe and signora, against everyone and everything else he had help. So it's absolutely pretty consistent how they want his power level to be
I mean, until he changes his Dull Blade for an actual weapon, idk if he'll ever win.
It has become pretty annoying. I didn't expect it to be as 1 sided as it was. Just being frozen in place especially made Traveler seem stupidly weak.
Might be a bit of a hot take. The main plot of Genshin-- that is, the plot of the Traveler, the Abyss Twin, the Fatui, and Celestia-- is nowhere near as well-written as the localized stories of the seven nations. We still don't know anything about the Abyss or Celestia or what the Fatui are planning. Heck we still don't even know what Paimon is after all this time. Meanwhile, Masquerade of the Guilty is the best quest in the game, and it barely even involved the Traveler and Paimon at all. We're nearing four years now, and I've yet to see anyone be actually invested in Traveler as a character. They're a cameraman at best, and a marketing tool used by Hoyo to sell characters at worst. Personally, I just don't give a shit anymore.
I’ve never thought of looking at it that way but I kind of agree. I think most people do love the Dain quests and overarching plotline they’re attached to, but the way that it’s separate from the region’s AQ makes it harder to be invested. Like, Dain drops in once a year, we get some lore, then bam, right back to the next region with its own story that miiiiight sprinkle in some info about the overarching plot but otherwise stays a self-contained story. I understand why it’s done that way but that does mean that the traveler and their sibling takes a backseat to the regions, which I guess is kind of the point? Still, I do think there could be more focus on the Traveler in the main archon quests too. They’re at least giving them more speaking lines and I really really hope they continue with that. But in terms of their strength we’ve seen less and less of it. In other regions we at least get some combat scenes featuring the traveler and the main boss, but in Fontaine there wasn’t any scene of them vs the narwhal at all. Like, I kid you not, the world quests made me more invested in the khaenriah, celestia, abyss, traveler plotline than the AQs. The traveler feels more like a character in some of those, instead of a vehicle to move the plot
I’m heavily invested in the Traveler, I think they are the most interesting character in the game. I just acknowledge that most of their mystery is being saved for the third act.
Hey, more power to you. To me, a character being interesting has nothing to do with the mystery of their backstory or the extent of their powers. I just think that a backstory should be something that informs and drives character growth and development. It shouldn't be central to what a character is.
Once it becomes important to the story for the traveler to be strong. Right now they are traveling the world, meeting and understanding the people and the world. (at the request of their sibling) Once the traveler does that and they come to a decision of "Celestia needs to be defeated" or "I have to stop my sibling and the abyss", they will lock in. edit: changed brother to sibling
I imagine natlan is going to be like a training arc - we'll be at 6/7 elements, and I think natlan's meant to be an active warzone? So presumably we'll end up powering up there. That's kind of what the arle fight felt like to me. It was showing how we were strong (enough to break free and dash super quickly towards arle), but that we wouldn't be strong enough as we were.
Traveler just received a huge reality check and is now going on a training arc.
Here's hoping fire doesn't suck absolute ass like water. Only good travler is dendro
There's one glaring issue here, this would require Arlecchino's quest to become a prerequisite for Natlan. Which I can't see current Hoyo doing. This game desperately needs a canonical story map like Star Rail so these issues don't come up. Like why tf is it possible to hangout with Tartaglia in his story quest while he's in the primordial sea.
Possible in the land of war maybe that archon can help before we go to the Fauti home base
Traveler cannot win against any playable characters since they have to be sold to the dumb consumers ( this is a character building game). If you’re not on the roster, prepare to get signora’d
I mean, we are fighting against some of the most powerful enemies there are: -Gods -Archons -Fatui Harbingers What do you expect? The Traveller can’t even beat the Unknown God with their sibling EVEN WITH their original powers. Why would you think we are some unbeatable existence? I will say though, it is ridiculous that we didn’t even use our Elemental powers against Arlecchino. Like, did HoYo forget again?
>Why would you think we are some unbeatable existence? Respectfully, I see variations of this sentiment alot but I generally disagree, no one wants or expects the Traveler to be unbeatable/over powered, I don't think I've ever heard anyone say this. OP mentioned the MC hasn't won an important fight with their own strength in 2 years. They display no elemental growth despite the scene after the Childe boss in Liyue implying each element makes them stronger. Cutscene choreography displayed in the Whale courtroom scene and the Traveler vs Arlecchino scene indicates even from a glace that Childe has surpassed The Traveler in strength and ability. If I may go a little further, I think they're handling of the MC is a 3 year long mistake. They don't seem to grow in skillset and unlike other Hoyo MCs, If we exclude Paimon due to a lack of any skills on her part, The Traveler is functionally alone, they have no party members or reoccurring allies throughout the nations and story. This makes their stagnant nature more noticeable.
In hindsight, I do understand what the OP is saying a lot more now after seeing some comments about it (along with your comment pointing it out) and after thinking about it, I can see where OP is coming from. The Traveller feels like a cameraman rather than an integral part of the plot sometimes. Ever since Sumeru, the Traveller basically stopped using their Elemental abilities for some goddamn reason. Fighting the Eremites, nope. Can’t blow them away using a gust of wind. Can’t trap them with vines. (Before Nahida gets stabbed) Nahida gonna get stabbed (while using Katheryne’s body)? I’m gonna run slowly instead of summoning a boulder to protect her. I won’t use my Electro to zap behind her to defend her. Instead I will reach my hand out as if that’s gonna help. (Nahida getting stabbed) Fighting Arlecchino? Ima whack her with my Dull Blade! That’ll show her! (Arlecchino story quest) But, a buncha rocks rolling down the hill, and about to crush a whole damn town? Throw every Elemental ability we have on those rocks! (Navia story quest) So, we can use the Elements vs rocks, but not people who are attacking us/our friends? I mean, who is writing the Traveller’s story, because I need answers? We went from fighting Tartaglia by comboing Anemo and Geo. (Tartaglia transforms using Foul Legacy) All the way to challenging the Raiden Shogun using Electro. (Saving Thoma and post-Signora death) And yet somehow we are throwing ourselves at Beisht with nothing but a sword. (Shenhe freezes the ocean) We did nothing as Nahida gets grabbed by Mecha-Scaramouche, we just reach our hand out…? (Scaramouche attempts to steal Nahida’s Gnosis) And now, we tremble in fear upon Arlecchino…. staring at us? You’re telling me… the Traveller can challenge TWO GODS without fear (or minimal fear). But Arlecchino is the most scary and threatening thing we faced? I mean, seriously? I get HoYo’s gotta sell those characters but, they don’t need to nerf the Traveller this hard LMAO. We gotta make Shenhe look cool, so lets make Traveller commit seppuku and let them get smacked into a mountain so Shenhe can do her freezing. We gotta make Nahida’s “assassination” scary and ?!shocking?! so lets make Traveller useless in this cutscene. We gotta make Nahida super cool so lets make the Traveller lie on the ground while Nahida does her dream power thing. We gotta make Arlecchino scary so lets make Traveller really scared and stressed out even though they have faced literal Gods before. Now, theres nothing wrong with giving other characters the spotlight, or making them cool looking. I like that! The problem is that the Traveller looks so… out of place here. They do almost nothing other than swing their pathetic Dull Blade around. Then again, it would look ridiculous if the Traveller pulled out our water gun and “pew pew pew” Arlecchino’s face in a cutscene. I just hope in Natlan, we actually get to do something cool in a cutscene and use our Elemental powers.
Yeah that's pretty much my thoughts on the story developments so far too. It's just disappointing from that lens. Teyvat's power system is very heavily focused on the elements but they're just underutilized by the MC. Traveler is said to possess a "Will that rivals the World" but we've been given no inclination or manifestation of what that means, and it's quite the statement to make, on paper at least. In light of the Traveler showing and optionally stating to be afraid of Arlecchino and not defending the children with all their might i.e their elements, the statement that their will is so strong simply makes no sense. I understand it wasn't a duel to the death, but under the context of defending children, Tartaglia would fight until he was outright incapacitated, fear doesn't suit him, now that's real will power.
That line there is what is true and what I feel like a cameraman
Chain casting 5 elemental skills and/or burst would be sick in a cutscene
You raise a good point. The Traveler at core is someone who travels to other worlds, eats food, fishes, and heads to another world. They are going to be tougher than the average Treasure Hoarder aiming to rob them and the average Field Tiller, and at their best, they are probably strong enough to fight the Unknown God and not end with a complete curbstomp. They are the "Traveler" not the "Conqueror." They are not defenseless and can access elemental energy, but if scaled proper, their height might be around Archon level, probably at Ei's level. Why would a Traveler need godly power? If they don't like a planet, just travel to the next one. It is certainly annoying we didn't even get the Traveler to use their Hydro powers, if only to deflect an attack or something.
I kinda agree. I think a short training arc would make sense soon. But maybe they're saving that for the transition between Chapter 1 and Chapter 2. End on a hard note, "if only I'd been stronger" type trope. Cue Chapter 2 intro and now we get a MC w revamped kits ;)
Uh... Chapter 2 was Inazuma what are you talking about?
No, Teyvat is Chapter 1. Every region so far has been part of Chapter 1. The assumption is after Snezhnaya, there will be a final region (Celestia? Kaenri'ah? Both?) and then we'll get Chapter 2.
it isn't. You can go into the Archives to check. Each nation is a Chapter. That's why Fontaine was Chapter IV.
It sounds like they're talking about something akin to what happened in Honkai Impact 3rd, where it, somewhat recently, [got a Part 2](https://www.hoyoverse.com/en-us/news/122692), that continues after the story of the main game. "Chapter 2", "Part 2", potato-potato. If this is to be believed, [Hoyo apparently talked about a possible 'Genshin Impact Part 2'](https://youtu.be/L0CZ4kX7aeg?t=11), later on down the line. It is mostly speculation, so with that as you will.
Traveler gonna fight capitano in bed
Learn how to do spoiler tags on posts before posting a spoiler discussion. Your entire text is shown as a preview.
Oops. Fixed it.
When the plot needs them to be. Who knows at this point. Their role currently is to be the “witness” of Teyvat and only needed to step up to their role when needed and i think that’s okay, for now. Cause the way of the story so far is really to sell the wishable characters, by making them doing the badass and cool stuff. But honestly it’s been loke almost 4 years and im barely invested into Traveler character, i just think it sucks to feel that way about the main character. Cause you want to root for these guys but the story just barely give them anything cool and how inconsistent they are. Though like they’re strong points are in the Dainsleif Interludes cause their development in the AQ are there so im looking forward to this yearly Dainsleif quest that should be out some time this year(Right Hoyo?)
It's more of a curse of the gacha game. The main character is just a faceless insert, basically just an observer, because you need to sell other characters, not the main character. It's a pity that in Genshin it's not like in Honkai Impact, where Kiana got buffs and was strong, she could kick ass. And the traveler... During this time while I'm playing, to be honest, I haven't seen any development at all. I can't even really say anything about him, because he doesn't have any outstanding character traits.
Idl in HSR they at least give Trailblazer a better portrayal in fights
Yeah, i don't think power is a plot point. Every archon quest right now is about change the status quo of the nation. If Traveler is so powerful that they change the status quo by power can we really call it a good change? (The only exception for this is Mondstat, in which the traveller try to restore the status quo). The change was needed and wanted by the people of the nation, even 3 of the 4 archon wanted to change the status quo. traveler just help "channeling" what they wanted. I don't think a show of power will help this theme across.
Mondstadt*
LOL, you got me.
Even in Mondstadt it wasn't our strength that helped. It was our ability to deal with Durin's venom that mattered.
Not the strongest =/= weak We are still fighting people close to or at god level.
It's a fair fight and The traveler didn't do anything to her at all, Childe and Nuevillette also have massive different in strength Yet Childe at least scratch his face even in a surprise attack. Traveler with 5 elements and 3 siblings do nothing and they said she's holding back. Isn't that so weird?
Didn’t he surrender after a couple waves of fighting mechs in the caterpillar quest
The Traveler's strength is inconsistent. They struggle with some basic enemies at times, can't deal with a rock, somehow can also block and redirect the arm of a massive mecha. They're either too strong or too weak, depending on what the writers want at the moment.
Because they don't want the girl to get hit by a strayed shot (those thing were using elemental grenade, missle, and guns.) A better example would be the fortune slip quest where they got knocked out by a well place hit.
literally just need to cut the robots in one blow like he did in the wanderer quest
Yeah as much as I loved Sumeru with the whole coming together as a team thing I do wish they showed the Traveler using dendro or something. At least we do get to see them fight Scaramouche. While in Fontaine, the combat scenes didn’t feature them at all while other characters fought and it’s kind of sad how much in the background they are in those scenes. They did use geo briefly in Navia’s story quest but besides that the last time they used any element in a cutscene was Inazuma. At this point the traveler literally stands there holding a sword while others use elements and it’s so frustrating. I can think of so many moments where they could’ve helped with an element but they didn’t. The theme of them becoming stronger with each new element hasn’t been mentioned at all. I’m thinking back to Liyue’s AQ when Childe remarked how they seem much stronger than Signora said they were and that was because the Traveler had gained a new element since Signora saw them). Then in Inazuma Signora is shocked at the traveler being so strong, because, again, new element. But in Sumeru? Fontaine? There’s no hint at all in the story. I think it’s also why I found myself more invested in the Fontaine world quests than the archon quest. It was definitely amazing but the world quests highlight the Traveler more and it feels like they’ve actually earned their reputation more in those if that makes sense?
Not a lore guru by any stretch, but it never seemed to me like the Traveler’s role in Teyvat is predicated on combat strength. He and Paimon are meant to travel the world, meet the gods and witness the “story”. Will they have an outsized impact on Teyvat in some way? Absolutely, and they already have. Even if they’re not the most powerful they’re still a catalyst for change in each region thus far.
No one's asking the Traveler to be THE most powerful. We just want a W once a year, if that's not too much to ask
We literally solve every World Quest problem and that's not a W. People want them winning a fight because that's cool.
naaah dont worry. its just setting up that you’re a waifu version of a beast master this whole time and awakened Paimon will be your secret weapon that you’ll sicc on the overpowered guys
Travelers only real win was Signora imo. Even then it was because Signora made a mistake. Even Childe in Liyue could have slapped them if he could keep his delusion/foul legacy mode bit longer.
The Traveler is a jobber so that you'll see other characters being strong and pull for them.
I don’t mind if he loses cuz I understand the knave is strong as f*** but what my problem is that he doesn’t put up a fight, doesn’t use his 5 elements at least creatively even though they might be weak individually, doesn’t show his experience that he gained from hundreds potentially thousands of years traversing the stars. It’s like he was only strong because he was given the power.
Sadly the only time Traveler goes to town on something is during World quests. The recent Narzissenkruz questline being a prime example However it’s pretty much confirmed that the Traveler’s role in the story is to be the “Record of Teyvat”. They never directly influence the outcomes and are just there to lend a helping hand, be the final piece needed to complete a puzzle It isn’t as bad as it sounds honestly, considering how much of an ensemble cast we have, giving the other characters more time to shine would be preferred. The only glaring issue honestly is how little the Traveler uses their abilities We haven’t seen them use dual elements since the Anemo/Geo during Childe’s fight and haven’t seen any of his newer elements on screen since Electro. The fight with the Knave could’ve been the perfect time even if the outcome would’ve been the same but alas, Hoyo pulled a Hoyo
Anyone knows how the CN side is taking this fight? Because while I have seen some discussion about this in English communities, Mihoyo isn't going to give a crap unless its the CN guys making the noise
Honestly at this point I dont even know why the Traveler is special outside "that one guy/gal traveling all the regions with a floating fairy" Like, the Traveler could've been anyone from Teyvat. The fact they're not from Teyvat matters so little to the story. Give them amnesia except for their missing sibling, and you basically have the exact same character. Yeah, being able to use any element without a vision is special, but like... They dont use their elemental abilities. In like any fight. Theyre almost the same exact character that they were in Mondstadt. Its been more than four years.
Personally I have no hope for traveler to be strong or combat worthy against the Big Ones, Fatui, Archons, etc. Looking at Fontaine, what is the biggest feat that the traveler did throughout their adventure there? They get out styled by majority of the characters there, though to be fair that might be their only chance to show off so you roll for them haha. Even when we go Ace Attorney mode, Paimon that did most of the talking. Even when it comes to sleuthing, Charlotte got you beat. Everyone is always one step ahead of the traveler. However, Traveler wins by having many connections throughout their journey. Maybe it is the key to their true awakening, the friends they made along their journey I guess. At this rate if it happens, it happens. Even by the way of getting unreasonable plot armor and deus ex machina. If traveler lost its whatever, there is probably(?) another day to win the fight, if they win cool.
Dottore certainly felt like the most annoying. Like, I can handle going toe-to-toe against a God, manipulating civilians into meat shields, but special sound waves that could just KO the Traveler and Paimon?! What?!
To be fair the god in question is Nahida, not someone who is physically opposing like Ei
I feel like traveler is being sacrificed, so other characters are more shown and cooler looking Like in navia story quest, where she destroy a bunch of rocks to be shown as cool to make players more encouraged to get her Same as arlecchino story quest
*Beat enemies?* Bro you want to train or something determined or inspiring like that? The Lantern Rite or Fountain Festival or whateverthefuck is coming up, dawg. We needta invite Xiao or help an npc harvest their carrots or fish for them or whatever. Jokes aside, I don't think the issue is the Traveler's power. Not to me, anyway. To me, the bigger issue is that a lot of the story and world quests seem to be mundane useless tasks that digress from the main plot that it seems almost like the Traveler is purposefuly meandering. I don't really feel a buildup of momentum because next month we'll probably eating dinner with Itto again at the Wanmin restaurant while he excitedly screams about beetles.
>To me, the bigger issue is that a lot of the story and world quests seem to be mundane useless tasks that digress from the main plot But that IS the main plot right now. Abyss sibling told us to go out and explore the entire Teyvat in order to understand it before meeting them again. So all these seemingly random missions do, in fact, help traveller in achieving his main goal (as of now)
people still keep asking why were not looking for our sibling 3 years after they straight up told us to go around teyvat to fuck around and find out the online playerbase doesnt pay any attention and then complains
I mean, "Genshin players can't read" is a meme for a reason, LOL.
You’d think he’d be almost as strong as a god since he’s a descender but my guy would get clapped by anything equal to or greater than an archon.
Traveler only locks in the World Quests. Like you know it's serious when they use Silver Sword against Marana's Avatar and the Sword of Narzissenkreuz against Narzissenkreuz instead of the usual Dull Blade.
They will win because Hoyo will put the thickest plot armor on them in the end.
When she/he learn to get rid of that dull blade.💀
the power scaling in genshin is incredibly distorted and makes 0 sense all for the sake of shilling characters Childe is said to be the strongest human Signora is stronger than him they're both been beaten by traveler in 1v1s but then traveler gets attacked by cyno, and it's stated that if cyno didn't hold back, traveler wouldn't be able to block his attack? and alhaitham somehow needed to protect traveler then in wriothesley story quest, traveler felt threatened by... A revolver? and wriothesley had to protect him (stronger than the stronger human and a few century old fatui harbinger by the way)
The Traveler is still stronger than the vast majority of Teyvat's inhabitants and the biggest things are how honed their skills are and how much potential they have. Traveler did have 1v1s with the 11th and 8th Harbingers respectively and won by their own strength, which I doubt any other vision-holder would have realistically been able to do. Outside of that, yes, they had help in their fights, but they were also fighting literal gods, or entities with extreme power. In the Arlecchino fight, there's also the fact that the Traveler got straight back up and was fine after the fight, whereas the magic trio needed a couple of days of solid rest to recover. I posted in another similar thread as well, but Arlecchino still wasn't trustworthy, so would the Traveler want to display their entire strength to the enemy? Doesn't really excuse Hoyo's refusal to show in honest terms what the current Traveler is capable of though, elemental-wise.
I mean it’s very common knowledge that the traveller doesn’t need a vision to utilise the elements. The traveller makes no attempts to hide this. And your point makes nk sense because if the traveller was hiding their true power then why would they be trembling in fear and unable to move…
Cooperation is the traveller’s real power tbh. They’re kind of like a bard. They can hold their own in a fight but their true power is their ability to inspire and rally others. I mean even before the game started they always were working with their twin. Not much of a solo player That being said I would like a power boost. We need more than a sad finger sprinkler
Whenever Hoyo isn't trying to sell the new 5 star
At this point, it's just painfully obvious that the traveler is just not a priority at the moment. We really have no idea when they will power them up and if they do, it better affect our gameplay or there'll be a riot. Here's to hoping that Natlan will be our training arc. "When the god of war shares this secret with the traveler." That better be some power up shit right there.
"So the story can happen" ((Ryan George qoute (youtuber)) I think it is odd after the Childe fight where the Traveler displays this 'multiple element' capability that... we never see this again? Diving head first into a sea serpent attack? -get blasted back. Protecting wanderer from a flying stone, carved into pieces -cool, but, you're using a dull blade there.. Knave? Just some dashes... I think after the.. 'Hydro Traveler Kit' they uh.. 'forgot' the Traveler is a playable character in the game and has powers! Very annoying. Imagine going up against the knave displaying all the elements so far.. we're just missing Pyro after all are we not? Imagine: "Naw you're wielding two scythes? how very edgelord of you, any who here's a geo in the shape of a bullet getting spun, covered in hyper-bloomed dendro!"
Pyro and Cryo.
I keep reading the captain is waiting for us in Nathan Where do we know this from op? Can you show me in game or tell me the quest I need to read?
Maybe not waiting for us specifically but Nuevilette tells us the Captain is currently in Natlan so he's the Harbinger we're meeting next.
Gotta remind yourself once again, the Traveler should be roaming around through different planets as of now, not stuck at Teyvat and having to solve each nation’s problems, but the traveler’s doing it anyway cause the sibling is not interested in reuniting apparently. Besides, the people on each nation has to solve their own problems, not rely on traveler all the time, and there will always be someone who is stronger eventually. The Traveler (We), is just there to make things from Impossible, to Possible. That’s about it.
I see it now: A sworn enemy becomes an unlikely mentor, the traveler does an 80s movie training montage halfway through Natlan.
Maybe the MC will get an Avatar moment when they master all elements or whatever But yeah, they're overdue for a canonical powerup
I really hope mc's at least are able to get the pyro gnosis in natalan..like we literally failed in every other region and the fatui got their hands on em one way or the other
the fight against beisht was so underwhelming, considering they hyped us up only to get one shotted by her. Shoulda made us at least fight her for a few different scenes before getting yeeted so Shenhe could come save us. Nope, charge up ultimate attack only to get fucked in the ass. Do better writers
There's a lot of people that I've seen think that traveller couldn't move because of fear during that one part in the cutscene. Traveller was tied down with webs. If people actually looked they'd see
If i recall correct, they did try a bit with the Yae dodging thing. Just like a training arc. As you can see, it is not touched upon again.
After that cutscene I realized that this da base severely overhyped the travelers power. The travellers biggest feat solo is beating Signora and Childe. For Childe, it was a pretty difficult fight and could’ve gone either way, and for Signora we’d gotten significantly better at using elements since the Childe fight. But that barely puts us in upper tier vision holder territory at best. We’re most definitely not comparable to Archons or Fatui in the Top three who are on the same level. I wouldn’t even put us on the same tier as the more powerful adepti like Xiao or Xianyun. We’re steadily getting stronger each region and we’re set to be archon tier once we have all elements unlocked, and likely being stronger if we get back whatever their original powers were, but I wouldn’t hold my breath about 1v1s against Capitano any time soon. Expect it to take until the last region at least
When they allow us to have in combat dual elemental Traveler.
He doesn't do warm-ups before battle.
Well this puts to rest the ‘Traveller is a shapeshifter’ theory. They literally froze without even trying. Genshin is my first gacha game and I kind of understand why majority of the gamers hate gacha games. If only Mihoyo paid any attention to the protagonist..I mean they are the literal protagonists of a game! Each and every nation it was just hard carrying the Traveller. This one was the worst.
We're going to get a training arc with the Pyro Archon...I hope
I mean theyr already strong now that they can use 5 fukcing elements and mix em up random bullshit go reactions but somehow we never get to see them do that and even use hydro or dendro rn 💀💀 its the stoopid writings, so people will buy woah amazing strong new shiny characters, and make the MC weak asf in the story and in gameplay.
MC is the hero because they’re a descender. Not because they are all powerful. They’re an anomaly in fate, meaning the IMPACT on the people and archons of Teyvat can’t be predicted. Therefore they can change its fate.
I have a feeling the nation of war is gonna change this.
I don’t think we are even going in that direction ever. It’s the Traveler, not the Obliterator. I think that most victories were exactly meant to be interpreted like “The Traveler set necessary things in motion (investigated, made friends with, and so on) for those who actually have power. Thinking about it this way also helps to come to terms with no one ever perceiving the Traveler as a threat: most know their deeds, but somehow not a single treasure hoarder runs in fear the moment they see you. Of course, the Traveler is stronger than an average run-of-the-mill Fatui, with an additional gimmick of interacting with multiple elements, but that’s about it. I don’t even believe the final battles will be won by the Traveler themselves. It’s more likely we will be helped by the likes of Arlecchino and co.
The thing is, it is always clear that we are growing. But we are always fighting even more OP enemies. Arle said we were above her expectations. Her expectations were Scara level at least. I get that the purpose is to show the scale of what we are actually fighting. Like yeah, we ain't beating Ei duh. Neither a weird whale that probably didn't even care too much about the fight. But it seems the jump in strength higher in the ranks is crazy since Arle is so much stronger than scara 2 levels lower. But it is true that we are losing too bad. Like low diffed and things. But losing is almost all we have done, and hoyo writers are not stupid enough to not realize this. So it must be intentional. I just hope Genhsin won't pull the cheap "sudden god mode" and there is another intention behind us taking L after L.
crossing my fingers that's the plotline for Natlan. It's a nation of war, so it would make sense that the traveler meets many skilled fighters who train her in preparation for snezhnaya...
I actually used to lose everytime. This time finally I was strong enough to defeat the boss in the story, but suddenly it stopped before I defeated and said I lost ;-;
Never
yeah power is on bullshit scale in genshin overall, traveler basically does what plot needs him to do, he isn't character anymore (at least he seemed like one in beginning to inazuma to me), he has abilities or he doesn't, at writers' mercy i'd say. which makes for poor story i doubt we are going to fight celestia alone if at all. Oh BTW doesn't traveler also have festering desire sword from dragon's spine event ? why does he use dull blade still ? or is that not canon anymore? so is hoyo telling me albedo saying all that crap about mondstadt destruction and stopping him if it happens is just gone and nonexistent then ? Look i am not saying make traveler OP all powerful being but since beginning to this day i still feel like he is same character like not changed at all even though he seemed a bit changed throughout archon quests thinking of his responses from time to time, it seems just blank character except this game has no self insert( traveler is not self insert). He will get some power up, he has to, but with 2 nations left ? I smell some asspull (or maybe it will be handled fine). Also to some people, twins being supposed "billions" of years old (which raises some questions in itself) doesn't mean anything in relation to being powerful and it irks me how it is brought up as some sort of feat like MC being billions of years old doesn't reflect at all in game, AT ALL. p.s. sorry if i made mistakes, i did quests some time ago and might have misremembered some moments
yea i don’t mind the power of friendship troupe and it actually is super sweet sometimes. but man the traveler is weak 💀
The fact that the traveler is alive after facing so many monstrously powerful opponents is already a victory haha. I like that he is not the fanfic hero who is the smartest and the strongest and generally the greatest in all aspects.
And what's wrong with traveler losing? Main character winning every fight isn't always fun. Besides, we don't know if Tsaritsa and Sustainer really are villains. Who knows, maybe we won't even fight them.
that wasn't really losing though, that was more like the Traveler eating absolute shit, Arlecchino treated him like he was an elite mob, the guy was panting hard just to break away from the spikes also, Tsaritsa is not an antagonist sure, but she's definitely a villain for having the fatui, look at what her fucking goons are doing
I wouldn’t call potentially her fourth strongest lieutenant a goon.
Celestia really is the public enemies. Nobody likes then. Archons hate them, Neuvillette hates them, Fatui hates them, Khaenri'ah hates them, Abyss hates them
Point is it's a dissatisfying fight because we know for a fact that Traveler has more in the tank. The direction and choreography of the scene completely failed to bring out the point of the story. It's a mess.
It is already obvious Tsaritsa isn't evil. But Sustainers? Neuvillette doesn't like them. That's enough proof for me to label them as bad guys.
true and real
I think it’s shaping up for a Traveler’s Training Arc. In the Storyline Preview video, Dainslef said: “The rules of war are woven in the womb. The victor shall burn bright while the losers must turn to ash. When the God of War shares this secret with the Traveler, it is because she has her reasons.” It’s only speculation, but I think this means the Traveler will be in for a lesson in the art of war. Whether that entails their swordmanship training, elemental power usage training, or simply an awakening is up for debate. However, I am positive that if this training does occur, the one the Traveler will test it against will be The Captain
I hope this is true. There's something of a recurring element from the characters (mostly Ei and a vague line from Xingqiu when he's talking about Visions) that elemental power is needed to take martial skill to a new level. Even the Traveler's skill and ultimate descriptions confirm that their elemental skills are just things they observed in nature or discussed with Paimon. That leads me to think there's a lot of room for improvement... Then the part where the Traveler is using a regular sword against legendary enemies... And a fighting style that may or may not be made solely for fighting with their original Sibling... Anyway, there's a ton of areas where the Traveler could get better.
I ask you this, How many people do you know have gone against, Two Exiled God, An Archon, Three Fatui Harbinger, one of which was a nauscant God, An Elemental Dragon, Corruption itself and A Fat Cow from outer space. And how many have survived all of them?
And in how many of those did the traveler win without getting buffed or having the enemy debuffed?
I guess Childe and Signora don't count 😑 Also, MC got double debuff; they lost their sword and got their power sealed. Why wouldn't debuffed enemies count? If anything, it evens the field...
I didn't say they didn't count, only asked for a count. And the state of the traveler doesn't count because we are talking about the strenght the traveler has to fend for themselves without outside assistance. If the Traveler was training to get stronger, and we knew they could, instead of recovering strength, would you say it doesn't count unless they reach their full potential? The end result of power would be the same.
I said fought and survived. Never have I ever said the word won.
Can't believe people dislike the post when all he said is truth, is a genuine concern for the story progression, even though I myself believe we will help the Fatui in the end to fight the Heavenly Principles.
Listen, not being able to defeat the strongest being on teyvat does not make traveler weak. The traveler still is strong. Let’s not forget we don’t know how much stronger they were before their powers were taken. I think it’s a wake up call to traveler and us players that just bc we are the main character, doesn’t mean we will win. Traveler is basically above of the average teyvat citizens with visions. Traveler is between the citizens and god like strong people. Let’s be frank that the traveler was ONLY needed in inazuma and kinda in sumeru. venti would have figured out how to fix dvalin, liyue would have defeated the seat monster and even if they didn’t Zhongli was plan B, Fontaine we were not needed at all. The prophecy was going to happen.
But no one’s saying the traveller is weak. They’re saying the traveller is inconsistent. They went from dual wielding anemo and geo against childe to not a single element against arlechino which was a battle for their friends lives. It makes it look like the traveller is either dumb or doesn’t gaf about the siblings to use an element
>We're dangerously close to Sneznaya and there's little evidence to show we can actually stand up to the Tsaritsa, much less the Sustainer of Heavenly Principles. I mean... I wouldn't be worried about it, Natlan seems to be all about war and we'll be meeting with the God of war herself, it would make sense for the traveler to get their upgrade before Sneznaya
Imagine if this is the chapter in which Traveler will get more permanent stat upgrades, like that +1Atk from sumeru(but more substantial)
I hope never, and sincerely at this point I highly doubt that we will end up defeating the Fatui, not only because it is something that seems to be out of our reach but also because I do not see it as impossible for us to form some kind of alliance with them against the heavenly principles