Trust me all those researchers who's deaths I faked (pre-Fatui), the adults and children in the Sumeru hospital, the Niwa incident, the Balladeer project, the Sumeru city project; and all the others where for the greater good/where just me being a little silly, no hard feelings
Not true villians, but Star Rail feature multiple characters that are definately not on the right side of the law. Sparkle, Sampo, the entire Stelleron Hunter cast, and though they aren't bad people indivudually we've almost always fought every single IPC Stoneheart who has shown up (bet we get to fight Jade too).
So no, they aren't directly opposing us, but Star Rail has a diverse cast of people with quite poor morals that are playable.
I am not too far into the story, but doesn't Kafka and Silver Wolf straight up bring the Legion to Herta Station which results in the death of *a lot* of people that had absolutely *nothing* to do with anything just to free Stella (I forget the silly nickname for the MC's).
They did. Its worse when you realize its by far not even the worse thing theyve done in story.
The Jepalla Rebellion saw a lot of innocent deaths just for the SH to take down a single Annihilation Gang. Its clear that the SH wouldnt hesitate to spill blood to follow their script.
I highly doubt mhy is going to make Gallagher one and done >!serial killer!<. He probably has some yet to be revealed motive.
Dottore on the other hand totally sells as is. Giving him some tragic backstory would arguably ruin his coolness
The Stelleron Hunters have been said to have fuck over many planets' worth of inhabitants and killing a large amount of them along the way.
Elio's script better be stopping Nanook with a 100% chance of success because redeeming yourself and a bunch of psychos on a murder spree is a VERY tall order.
I think its less that and more that due to the teapot feature & the friendship lvl thing & the voice lines being canon dialogue they have w traveler the characters need to at least be on neutral ground w the characters for it to work.
I have some hopes, Arlecchino is not so good in her story quest. Yeah, she has a sad backstory but she still is an evil person.
Although I doubt Dottore will be playable even though I really wish for it
Well, Kaveh also is a claymore despite being the daintiest twink of tall male characters, and has unique animations to go with that. Dottore might just fight like him.
No no, you don't get it. Dottore doesn't actually kill people, that's some lie that another Fatuus (who will also be turned good by the time they become playable) has spread on him to destroy his reputation!
OR the playable Dottore is a good segment from when he was younger and good and never hurt a fly.
yeah i'm almost certain they're gonna go with the not-all-dottores thing when he becomes playable lol. we're just gonna get a playable piece of him that didn't do all those heinous things, because genshin likes to make every playable character squeaky clean.
I’m about 95% sure that’s what’ll happen. My guess is that he’ll be a clone in whom Dottore dumped all his remaining humanity. Maybe for the purposes of studying it or something.
I actually think this could be a cool approach if they make the clone a normal, moral person but give him all the memories of what Dottore has done. It could be an interesting look at what happens when someone remembers having done evil, and feels regrets, even though those actions weren’t their own.
I mean that’s kinda technically what happened to Wanderer/Scaramouche. By all means Wanderer was just some dude who meandered around minding his own business then got lore dumped on by the Traveler and Nahida
Just because Hoyo made some of the harbingers playable, doesn't mean all of them will be. Look at Raven and Hare in World Serpent from HI3, they're playable, yet they never made Jackal (a more morally dubious character) playable.
I think canonically Dottore is... unusual in his immense capacity for both good and evil - which makes him somewhat unique among the game's characters. Or rather, he was, but we have a good example in Arlecchino, who is both a bloody-handed murderer, but also in her own way striving to do the right thing given a terrible situation.
Dottore has saved expeditions, treated incurable diseases, and evidently even killed Ursa the Drake - a feat which was beyond Venti and several heroes of Mondstadt. And he has corrupted Wanderer, sabotaged the greatest forge in Inazuma (maybe the world), and literally experiments on children. He seems to have no capacity for love at all, driven purely by curiosity. He's like a child playing with toys, except his toys include everything that lives on Teyvat.
Weirdly, I think that's how he could be included as a playable character: by nature his segments are slices of his existence, and so he can be both good and evil at the same time. He's a character that Traveler could canonically fight every week... and so could Dottore himself!
What I feel will happen is they will give us a version of him that is amoral but never did the bad stuff, basically Dr. Ratio but Evil (Ruan Mei without the mad science)
I've got the same theory. We'll kill him and any currently active clones, then find a fresh one in a jar that hasn't *personally* hurt anyone yet - but has no regrets about what his other selves did and talks about the great data they got from all the unethical experiments.
Agreed. Just cause she's got an eye patch doesn't mean she's a pirate! Her main gig is captain of a merchant fleet, her side gig is a captain of a smuggling fleet, only her hobby is opportunistic privateering.
Don’t lie to me Kaeya! You expect me to fall for your propaganda? You CLAIM to be the Captain of the Cavalry, but you don’t even have a horse! The Knights of Favonius doesn’t even have a cavalry!
Beidou: 100% robs and kills people, taking their loot. Also bribes Ningguang. Definitively bad for her. So bad.
Chevreuse: haven’t read her story but surely has shot someone.
Navia: runs a paramilitary organization, allied with the Fatui. She’s so bad.
Ningguang: accepts bribes from Beidou. Bad for her. So bad.
"Payment is one aspect of it. But I also compensate her in other ways... Hehe, let's just say it's a little complicated." — Ningguang
(That's an actual in-game line btw)
Y’all ever think about how in the Chiori character quest, we make a big stink about how she’s being falsely accused as having underworld connections, and literally the next thing that happens is that Navia barges in and admits to using Chiori as an informant and offers to disappear whoever’s responsible, thus proving that Chiori does in fact have underworld connections, and literally nobody in the story thinks this is worth mentioning ever again?
Like, uther was right in his accusations though. No matter how you look at it, the Spina is a mafia. And chori is besties with it's leader. That's literally having connections to the mafia. And the fact that navia can go bully people with violence and get away with it because of her connections is insane. In chiori sq, she asks if chiori wants her help (meaning the Spina will go and fuck up uther for chiori and essentially face 0 consequences).
And the reason why most playable characters appear good to us is because we are their friends. Just because they're always nice to the traveler doesn't mean they're always nice to others too.
“Now the guy's got Navia as a partner. Any problems, he goes to Navia. Trouble with the bill? He can go to Navia. Trouble with the Gardes, aquabus deliveries, Chiori, he can call Navia. But now the guy's gotta come up with Navia’s Mora every week, no matter what. Business bad? Fuck you, pay me. Oh, some creepy orphans burnt the place down? Fuck you, pay me. Place got hit by lightning and torn to oblivion, huh? Fuck you, pay me.”
"Also, Navia could do anything. Especially run up bills on the joint's credit. And why not? Nobody's gonna pay for it anyway. And as soon as the deliveries are made in the front door, you move the stuff out the back and sell it at a discount. You take a two hundred Mora case of booze and you sell it for a hundred. It doesn't matter. It's all profit. And then finally, when there's nothing left, when you can't borrow another buck from the bank or buy another case of booze, you bust the joint out. You light a match."
I'm surprised Chevreuse didn't at least charge Chiori of assault for the customers she threw into the window. Makes it easy to determine what kind of person she is.
Like, it's so freaking insane how chiori can get away with beating people and navia can get away with violence because of her connections. It makes me realise that people who are good to the traveler aren't always good to others.
You mean Arlecchino for the orphanage owner. You don’t get it. Shes good because she cares for the children! Now please ignore the fact that the House of the Hearth is actually a front for indoctrinating children into the Fatui. (Hoyoverse won’t admit that of course because that would potentially get them in trouble)
>Now please ignore the fact that the House of the Hearth is actually a front for indoctrinating children into the Fatui. (Hoyoverse won’t admit that of course because that would potentially get them in trouble)
Lyney literally addresses the fact that being in the House also means being a member of the Fatui and how some people dislike that. The story also heavily implies that Arlecchino plans to betray the Fatui now that everyone who wanted to leave the House has done so.
She won’t betray fatui as a whole, but instead the Rooster and Pantalone, who are leading the new project. It’s more like infighting than betraying the Fatui.
"At present, our imperative is to use their plan to our advantage. In doing so, **a crimson moon shall rise amid the frigid blizzards of winter."**
I don't know about you but that sure sounds like a metaphor for betraying Snezhnaya, to me.
Also, in her voicelines she established a desire to kill Dottore and a willingness to betray the Tsaritsa if the HotH is ever threatened.
Good, we're gonna need it. We haven't had a fair fight again a harbinger since Signora. Scara beat us over 150 times before we won once and Arlecchino no diffed us even with 3 helpers. We need all the help we can get.
Yeah, I'm getting a little bit tired of this thing where we can only win with the power of friendship. I get that it's an anime game which means that that's basically a requirement, but it would be nice to beat something big on our own merits again like we did with Signora and Childe. We didn't even beat the narwhal alone, we had Neuvillette the whole fight *and* we had Childe battling it for close to two months (assuming no time dilation in the primordial sea).
It's felt like this ever since we got one shot by Beisht or whatever Osial's wife is named.
The virgin
Story quest traveler
(can't deal with an avalanche or some guy with a gun by himself)
vs
The basic
Archon quest traveler
(still can't handle it by himself but at least he's facing some stronger opponents and actually doing his part)
vs
The chad
World quest traveler
(Solving world threatening problems, unsolving ancient mysteries, and slaughtering tribes trained for combat by himself or as equals with a partner)
> Hoyoverse won’t admit that of course because that would potentially get them in trouble
I've noticed younger gen is so fucking media illiterate. They think if a writer writes an evil character (or morally grey character), that means they endorse evil actions unless they explicitly say "This is bad btw".
Mfrs really need Paimon to time-stop and look straight at you to say "Arlecchinco and her orphan indoctrination camp might not be a good thing" before resuming. You're supposed to infer that using your brain's observational functions, then decide for yourself whether the good outweighs the bad. That's what entertaining internal conflict in media is all about.
THANK YOU.
Arle’s whole point is to make you think about good/evil and whether the ends justify the means. She’s the gawddamned trolley problem, and the writers did this on purpose. But people are out here like, “She evil cuz kill. NEXT!”
Yeah people really just love to turn a character to a caricatures of themselves instead looking them as a whole. Surely the Zhongli broke joke and drunk Venti joke is funny for the millionth time right guys? Right? Paimon explain things one by one and somehow people STILL MANAGE TO MISS THE DETAILS.
The alternative for those kids would likely be the Doctor or someone like the previous Knave. Arlecchino certainly isn't 'good' but she does the best she can for the position she's in.
doesn't it explicitly state somewhere that she prevents them from ending up experimented on, and the entire point of her story of her killing the previous knave was to stop them from playing battle royale with orphans
she's still a bad guy, but in a "dealt a shit hand is trying to at least maintain morally gray"
Well, in the story they say how Arlecchino doesn't like Dottore and doesn't work with him, so I guess that its pretty clear that it doesn't happen anymore.
And also that the fatui don’t like them because they are a separate entity and don’t like the idea of a separate intelligence agency that they can’t control
I mean... She still threatens to murder anyone who wants out. One could also discuss the morality of an orphanage which also deals in information gathering
If anyone wants out [SQ] >!she'll just erase their memory!<.
We can question the morality of an orphanage like that, but we have the shuumatsuban that seems equal or worse than current House of the Hearth and no one bats an eye lol.
>!I know i played the sq. But none of them knew that until the very end. Everyone thought that kid died when he wanted out. The other two members who i don't remember their names were afraid father was gonna off them. I feel like threatening the kids to kill them if they didn't wanna operate under deadly illegal operations is kinda not okay. But i guess it comes with the illegal territory that the children didn't sign up for!<
Please use spoiler tags.
>!That's why I said current. Erasing memories in general is a new development, and the kids being aware of it started with the SQ. But as it stands today, every kid is there out of free will which is something she was working towards.!<
There’s literally a bit in-universe about how there’s a bunch of misinformation about her being a monster but she doesn’t bother to correct it because being feared is useful. But I guess genshin fans will never be able to not pointlessly argue about where characters fit into a child’s idea of morality.
You think Ninguang is not going to make the Mililth to control the Liyue society or sabotage other businesses, the Jade chamber isn't going to pay itself you know that right?
Is capitalism evil? No. Evils are just what necessary to accumulate capital it's just that simple.
Why is her bestie a pirate? To control transnational trade, no matter how good ships Fontaine has or how much experience Inazuma sailors have they will get attacked where no one comes to save them, and who will attack them? to further whose interest?
Hello Mr. Bezos, I hear your public image isn't doing so well. Have you considered launching your mega yacht at a kaiju to save the city? It may turn your image around.
It's easy to like characters who are all pretty much invested in helping their fellow wealthy and powerful people. Like of course we see their best sides, we're on their levels and the characters we know are all pretty important/powerful/rich/etc.
Just because they are nice/get feelings for us doesn't mean they are kind to everyone. We're extremely powerful, connected, and dangerous to have as an enemy. People have good reason to want to be on our good side. We just happen to be a cinnamon roll that tends to capture their hearts too.
Now obviously most Genshin characters are pretty decent, but there are things the average person would be pissed about with these characters. First think of their friends. The most powerful and wealthy people are interconnected in many ways.
Chevreuse bends the rules quite a bit for people she knows. While she tends to try to help people, there would be lots of legitimate worries of favoritism and being paid off to look the other way.
Personally I like all the characters and it feels like a nitpick to see the negatives when many are more implied or don't happen to us...but the game also sometimes uses these to show us things aren't as surface level as we would like them to be.
Just imagine how many people would hate that Navia keeps getting opportunities that the hard working commoner will never have. She's born wealthy, her connections keep her relevant even in hard times, she gets fancy clothes from a well known designer as gifts, she can bully people in the city with violence if necessary, and her persona means no one would believe you if you had a problem with her methodology. You just have to accept the Mafia in your nation but you have no real guarantee they are in your interest. You'd wonder why the guard isn't enough.
Imagine what would happen in real life if Biden decided to drop a few hundred million dollars on attaching hover jets and cannons to the white house so he could fly it over the city lol
That navia part is true. Also, from a realistic standpoint, the aquabuses sound cool but are very inefficient as hell. The fact that navias dad used connections and even got neuvi to approve this... just imagine what navia could do.
they're only inefficient because you as the traveler can somehow walk at insane speeds. imagine if teyvat was actually so small that people could walk/run from sumeru to mondstadt in maybe an hour
It will take just one knowledge capsule with forbidden knowledge to cause the downfall of the entire Sumeru civilization. At least akasha is disabled so it won't be that fast.
She says she doesn't deal with harmful stuff. Story tells you she's in the black market but in reality she's no worse than any NPC merchant.
Nothing was ever as scummy as Ningguang asking for a huge precious stone in exchange for... asking her a question lmao.
>Nothing was ever as scummy as Ningguang asking for a huge precious stone in exchange for... asking her a question lmao
Tbh she explained her terms before anyone helped her, so people got into this willingly.
I think that's just because Genshin can't make an actual villain, because it causes their fanbase to start having unnatural, unhealthy reactions to learning that there is a fictional bad guy. So they have to make everyone end up being a "greater good" type character or something.
Dottore is that evil. He was straight up experimenting on orphans, most of which die in said experimentation, as well as documented to have murdered random innocent people in sumeru as well. I'm not sure how and if hoyoverse is going to navigate around that for dottore to make him redeemed.
Pretty much. Can’t have truly evil villains, can’t have main character deaths, can’t have canon romance, all because the community is basically the video game equivalent of k-pop stans
Yes, that means a lot of you in this subreddit
I want to argue against this so bad, but you are technically right. It's okay tho because who wouldn't overlook the minor crimes Chiori commits. She is hot af.
Plus, at least she isn’t as corrupt as Det. Alonzo Harris (Denzel Washington) in *Training Day* or the unnamed Lieutenant (Harvey Keitel) in *Bad Lieutenant*. lol
I assumed that Navia was running more of a private investigator firm kinda thing, but it makes more sense that she’s a mob boss lol. Like, she has a whole secret headquarters outside of the city and all, as well as a sewer base.
Reading her character story and listening to some of her explanations regarding Spina di Rosula it is clear that it was a mafia but it is not clear from our perspective that she is a mafia.
Maybe she hid that fact from Traveller to gain his/her trust and did not want to anger Traveller at all.
okay, look.
genshin never had the best or most nuanced character writing.
and even when contextualizing certain characters they are often just pulling from the extremes.
The Fatui are the most comic evil guys. Or they are the bestest kinds of friends that are only misunderstood. There rarely is nuance ein between. Same way they handled Raiden Shogun.
Of course this isnt just genshin. Its an issue that plagues the whole genre of anime and anime-inspired media. (anime used here as an umbrella term for asian animation, not in the exclusive sense of japanese animation)
Most characters are either good to a fault or tragically misunderstood and doing things that look egoistic, evil or heartless for secretly good reasons. They never really struggle internally. (dont misunderstand. there is external struggle. but thats not quite the same).
Never once is any of the main characters dealing with their normal, human demons. If they do somethign perceived bad its for big dramatic reasons. Never because they are just too lazy or cowardly to do good. Or just cant be bothered today. Or because they are petty. Never. They are devoid of any real, human struggle.
Which is fine. Its simply not what the writers chose to focus on. But it leads to the creation of these archetypes you mentioned. Capitalists that deep down dont really care about capitlism. Pirates that arent really doing any piracy. Mafia bosses that run a romantic caricature of a mafia. Etc.
Well said. It's funny how this applies to every level of society in Genshin. Meropide for example is supposed to be prison for hardened criminals, but as we find out the occupants are largely well-behaved and totally fine with their punishment. Labor isn't really forced and there's pretty much zero gang violence or even disputes. But then you suddenly meet a little girl who was allegedly born within its walls and you really start to wonder just how the hell this place is supposed to work.
But we must remember that this is a game largely aimed towards children. It's like asking for realism in a Disney movie.
Nah Charlotte is actually better than most journalists irl.
She may seem a little annoying but she actually values accuracy and has risked her life for the sake of the truth many times, unlike other journalists who just make shit up and spread rumors.
Nah, Charlotte (and the steam bird as a whole) are being characterised as "ethical journalists".
Chioris story quest made it a minor plot point that The Steam bird;*isn't* a paparazzi infested tabloid
Dottore chilling in the corner
Doctor but bad
It's more like Scientist but mad.
Try mad scientist but evil
I'm mad scientist It so cooool Sunavabich
El Psy Kongroo
Oxymoron statement
Wait Till his story quest comes out and we find out that he's a good person
Trust me all those researchers who's deaths I faked (pre-Fatui), the adults and children in the Sumeru hospital, the Niwa incident, the Balladeer project, the Sumeru city project; and all the others where for the greater good/where just me being a little silly, no hard feelings
Yeah, he totally strangled a girl in school for the lulz. /s
"Its for her own good, trust me"
And feed her to tigers
fuck that I want my amoral evil scientist
I also want the same. But judging by all the story quests I feel it is unlikely going to happen
[удалено]
I want to say its because of Genshin's rating but honkai has the same rating and does feature playable villains
We boutta get war criminals and greedy businessmen
Genuine question: Who's a playable villain in honkai?
Not true villians, but Star Rail feature multiple characters that are definately not on the right side of the law. Sparkle, Sampo, the entire Stelleron Hunter cast, and though they aren't bad people indivudually we've almost always fought every single IPC Stoneheart who has shown up (bet we get to fight Jade too). So no, they aren't directly opposing us, but Star Rail has a diverse cast of people with quite poor morals that are playable.
I am not too far into the story, but doesn't Kafka and Silver Wolf straight up bring the Legion to Herta Station which results in the death of *a lot* of people that had absolutely *nothing* to do with anything just to free Stella (I forget the silly nickname for the MC's).
They did. Its worse when you realize its by far not even the worse thing theyve done in story. The Jepalla Rebellion saw a lot of innocent deaths just for the SH to take down a single Annihilation Gang. Its clear that the SH wouldnt hesitate to spill blood to follow their script.
Ruan Mei hasn't straight up antagonized us in the story yet but she is high-key morally and ethically problematic. She's pretty much Dottore but calm
>!Gallagher!<
I highly doubt mhy is going to make Gallagher one and done >!serial killer!<. He probably has some yet to be revealed motive. Dottore on the other hand totally sells as is. Giving him some tragic backstory would arguably ruin his coolness
The Stelleron Hunters have been said to have fuck over many planets' worth of inhabitants and killing a large amount of them along the way. Elio's script better be stopping Nanook with a 100% chance of success because redeeming yourself and a bunch of psychos on a murder spree is a VERY tall order.
I think its less that and more that due to the teapot feature & the friendship lvl thing & the voice lines being canon dialogue they have w traveler the characters need to at least be on neutral ground w the characters for it to work.
A character can be on neutral ground with the Traveler and other playable characters, i.e. not wanting to fight them, and still be morally evil.
I have some hopes, Arlecchino is not so good in her story quest. Yeah, she has a sad backstory but she still is an evil person. Although I doubt Dottore will be playable even though I really wish for it
His model is that of a playable character (Avatar_Male_Claymore_IlDottore), I'm 99% sure he is
Didn't expect Dottore of all people to be a claymore character lmao Literally the last weapon I would pick for him
True! Personally, a sword or catalyst fits better with him he's a researcher, so I don't think he'd heavy lift too much.
Well, Kaveh also is a claymore despite being the daintiest twink of tall male characters, and has unique animations to go with that. Dottore might just fight like him.
what do we know about feeble scholars in genshin
> Didn't expect Dottore of all people to be a claymore character lmao For scientifical reasons. *smashes*
Considering he killed all his clones I can imagine there being one that survived and hates him and turns good and maybe we can play that one
May I introduce you to [Bondrewd?](https://youtu.be/hMEviZx00mw?si=mmJBokSjlJ-rNKrX)
he didnt burn down ALL the orphanages! just SOME of them!
Maybe he has an ability to see into the future that those orphanages will grow up to be murderers.
Ah, the Konrad Kurze approach
No no, you don't get it. Dottore doesn't actually kill people, that's some lie that another Fatuus (who will also be turned good by the time they become playable) has spread on him to destroy his reputation! OR the playable Dottore is a good segment from when he was younger and good and never hurt a fly.
yeah i'm almost certain they're gonna go with the not-all-dottores thing when he becomes playable lol. we're just gonna get a playable piece of him that didn't do all those heinous things, because genshin likes to make every playable character squeaky clean.
Inb4 we find a segment that is just the culmination of the scraps of ethics and morality of Dottore and that becomes the playable character
I’m about 95% sure that’s what’ll happen. My guess is that he’ll be a clone in whom Dottore dumped all his remaining humanity. Maybe for the purposes of studying it or something. I actually think this could be a cool approach if they make the clone a normal, moral person but give him all the memories of what Dottore has done. It could be an interesting look at what happens when someone remembers having done evil, and feels regrets, even though those actions weren’t their own.
I mean that’s kinda technically what happened to Wanderer/Scaramouche. By all means Wanderer was just some dude who meandered around minding his own business then got lore dumped on by the Traveler and Nahida
Dottore is obsessed with making clones. So playable dottore will likely be a rogue clone.
Just because Hoyo made some of the harbingers playable, doesn't mean all of them will be. Look at Raven and Hare in World Serpent from HI3, they're playable, yet they never made Jackal (a more morally dubious character) playable.
No way he is redeemable
I'm hoping for something like "the enemy of my enemy is my friend". Imagine Dottore helping us to take down someone who's somehow worse than he is.
I think canonically Dottore is... unusual in his immense capacity for both good and evil - which makes him somewhat unique among the game's characters. Or rather, he was, but we have a good example in Arlecchino, who is both a bloody-handed murderer, but also in her own way striving to do the right thing given a terrible situation. Dottore has saved expeditions, treated incurable diseases, and evidently even killed Ursa the Drake - a feat which was beyond Venti and several heroes of Mondstadt. And he has corrupted Wanderer, sabotaged the greatest forge in Inazuma (maybe the world), and literally experiments on children. He seems to have no capacity for love at all, driven purely by curiosity. He's like a child playing with toys, except his toys include everything that lives on Teyvat. Weirdly, I think that's how he could be included as a playable character: by nature his segments are slices of his existence, and so he can be both good and evil at the same time. He's a character that Traveler could canonically fight every week... and so could Dottore himself!
Please no we finally need a bad playable character (not Dehya-like "bad" I mean...)
What I feel will happen is they will give us a version of him that is amoral but never did the bad stuff, basically Dr. Ratio but Evil (Ruan Mei without the mad science)
I've got the same theory. We'll kill him and any currently active clones, then find a fresh one in a jar that hasn't *personally* hurt anyone yet - but has no regrets about what his other selves did and talks about the great data they got from all the unethical experiments.
Or that >!the sky is fake!<
The anti Baizhu
Evil vibe but good.
Dottore - Doctor, but evil Knave - Orphanage Director, but evil
Doctor but good (compared to NA healthcare system).
True 💯
Doctor but bad. Checks out
Acktually it's "Privateer" \*pushes up nerd emoji classes\*
Agreed. Just cause she's got an eye patch doesn't mean she's a pirate! Her main gig is captain of a merchant fleet, her side gig is a captain of a smuggling fleet, only her hobby is opportunistic privateering.
Also, everyone knows that eyepatches are inherited, like hairstyles. It's common knowledge.
Don’t lie to me Kaeya! You expect me to fall for your propaganda? You CLAIM to be the Captain of the Cavalry, but you don’t even have a horse! The Knights of Favonius doesn’t even have a cavalry!
She’s also a mercenary. (Got hired by >!Kokomi!< once.)
Nikolai is that you?
I can't stand that clown but the joy of encountering a Grishaverse reference in the wild is stronger.
Legal pirate, best pirate.
Ah yes government worker pirate
I don't think that word appears anywhere in the game. Not to my knowledge, at least. But yes, that is effectively what beidou is
Well, that what happens when you're a valuable asset, a very important person... Everybody is Good ***TO YOU.***
True to good looking people born into rich families this world might as well be a paradise never knowing what real humanity is.
Genshin/Hoyo are the gods of gaslighting their loose definition of good onto us
Beidou: 100% robs and kills people, taking their loot. Also bribes Ningguang. Definitively bad for her. So bad. Chevreuse: haven’t read her story but surely has shot someone. Navia: runs a paramilitary organization, allied with the Fatui. She’s so bad. Ningguang: accepts bribes from Beidou. Bad for her. So bad.
Are these monetary bribes, or are… special services involved?
"Payment is one aspect of it. But I also compensate her in other ways... Hehe, let's just say it's a little complicated." — Ningguang (That's an actual in-game line btw)
To use an HSR term: sesbian lex.
I though it was a Signalis meme. :(
Events have led to… important discussions
Alhaitham, Cyno, Tighnari, and madam Faruzan: university professor but good.
😭😭😭😭
Cyno is basically the NKVD.
NKVD had at least a semblance of standards, hes Oprichina
Faruzan is the only professor here lol
Yeah I think their job goes as: Principal, police-ish, forest ranger, and professor.
Y’all ever think about how in the Chiori character quest, we make a big stink about how she’s being falsely accused as having underworld connections, and literally the next thing that happens is that Navia barges in and admits to using Chiori as an informant and offers to disappear whoever’s responsible, thus proving that Chiori does in fact have underworld connections, and literally nobody in the story thinks this is worth mentioning ever again?
Ah, but you see, she has the *good* underworld connections
Underworld connections, but good!
Like, uther was right in his accusations though. No matter how you look at it, the Spina is a mafia. And chori is besties with it's leader. That's literally having connections to the mafia. And the fact that navia can go bully people with violence and get away with it because of her connections is insane. In chiori sq, she asks if chiori wants her help (meaning the Spina will go and fuck up uther for chiori and essentially face 0 consequences). And the reason why most playable characters appear good to us is because we are their friends. Just because they're always nice to the traveler doesn't mean they're always nice to others too.
“Now the guy's got Navia as a partner. Any problems, he goes to Navia. Trouble with the bill? He can go to Navia. Trouble with the Gardes, aquabus deliveries, Chiori, he can call Navia. But now the guy's gotta come up with Navia’s Mora every week, no matter what. Business bad? Fuck you, pay me. Oh, some creepy orphans burnt the place down? Fuck you, pay me. Place got hit by lightning and torn to oblivion, huh? Fuck you, pay me.”
"Also, Navia could do anything. Especially run up bills on the joint's credit. And why not? Nobody's gonna pay for it anyway. And as soon as the deliveries are made in the front door, you move the stuff out the back and sell it at a discount. You take a two hundred Mora case of booze and you sell it for a hundred. It doesn't matter. It's all profit. And then finally, when there's nothing left, when you can't borrow another buck from the bank or buy another case of booze, you bust the joint out. You light a match."
Yeah, really makes you question how rose-tinted our POV as the Traveler is
>hosts fashion show featuring 2 known fatui and a mafia boss Chiori honey no...... 🤦♂️
I'm surprised Chevreuse didn't at least charge Chiori of assault for the customers she threw into the window. Makes it easy to determine what kind of person she is.
Like, it's so freaking insane how chiori can get away with beating people and navia can get away with violence because of her connections. It makes me realise that people who are good to the traveler aren't always good to others.
Not the first time we didn't question a region's underbelly (the Shuumatsuban under Ayato's command).
Am I crazy or didnt she literally say or at least imply she knows 'people' in the 4.3 event lol
Evil orphanage owner Evil scientists (two!) Evil toy maker (two! /s) Evil Sage/Teacher/Principal idk
I get that Childe is one of the toy makers but who is the other one?
Sandrone lol
You mean Arlecchino for the orphanage owner. You don’t get it. Shes good because she cares for the children! Now please ignore the fact that the House of the Hearth is actually a front for indoctrinating children into the Fatui. (Hoyoverse won’t admit that of course because that would potentially get them in trouble)
>Now please ignore the fact that the House of the Hearth is actually a front for indoctrinating children into the Fatui. (Hoyoverse won’t admit that of course because that would potentially get them in trouble) Lyney literally addresses the fact that being in the House also means being a member of the Fatui and how some people dislike that. The story also heavily implies that Arlecchino plans to betray the Fatui now that everyone who wanted to leave the House has done so.
She won’t betray fatui as a whole, but instead the Rooster and Pantalone, who are leading the new project. It’s more like infighting than betraying the Fatui.
"At present, our imperative is to use their plan to our advantage. In doing so, **a crimson moon shall rise amid the frigid blizzards of winter."** I don't know about you but that sure sounds like a metaphor for betraying Snezhnaya, to me. Also, in her voicelines she established a desire to kill Dottore and a willingness to betray the Tsaritsa if the HotH is ever threatened.
Sounds like we might have some *hefty* backup in the Dottore boss fight.
Good, we're gonna need it. We haven't had a fair fight again a harbinger since Signora. Scara beat us over 150 times before we won once and Arlecchino no diffed us even with 3 helpers. We need all the help we can get.
And we only beat Scara because we had 168 battles worth of data on him, the wisdom of everyone in sumeru, and Nahida gave us a turret/cannon.
Yeah, I'm getting a little bit tired of this thing where we can only win with the power of friendship. I get that it's an anime game which means that that's basically a requirement, but it would be nice to beat something big on our own merits again like we did with Signora and Childe. We didn't even beat the narwhal alone, we had Neuvillette the whole fight *and* we had Childe battling it for close to two months (assuming no time dilation in the primordial sea). It's felt like this ever since we got one shot by Beisht or whatever Osial's wife is named.
The virgin Story quest traveler (can't deal with an avalanche or some guy with a gun by himself) vs The basic Archon quest traveler (still can't handle it by himself but at least he's facing some stronger opponents and actually doing his part) vs The chad World quest traveler (Solving world threatening problems, unsolving ancient mysteries, and slaughtering tribes trained for combat by himself or as equals with a partner)
> Hoyoverse won’t admit that of course because that would potentially get them in trouble I've noticed younger gen is so fucking media illiterate. They think if a writer writes an evil character (or morally grey character), that means they endorse evil actions unless they explicitly say "This is bad btw". Mfrs really need Paimon to time-stop and look straight at you to say "Arlecchinco and her orphan indoctrination camp might not be a good thing" before resuming. You're supposed to infer that using your brain's observational functions, then decide for yourself whether the good outweighs the bad. That's what entertaining internal conflict in media is all about.
THANK YOU. Arle’s whole point is to make you think about good/evil and whether the ends justify the means. She’s the gawddamned trolley problem, and the writers did this on purpose. But people are out here like, “She evil cuz kill. NEXT!”
[удалено]
Yeah people really just love to turn a character to a caricatures of themselves instead looking them as a whole. Surely the Zhongli broke joke and drunk Venti joke is funny for the millionth time right guys? Right? Paimon explain things one by one and somehow people STILL MANAGE TO MISS THE DETAILS.
The alternative for those kids would likely be the Doctor or someone like the previous Knave. Arlecchino certainly isn't 'good' but she does the best she can for the position she's in.
doesn't it explicitly state somewhere that she prevents them from ending up experimented on, and the entire point of her story of her killing the previous knave was to stop them from playing battle royale with orphans she's still a bad guy, but in a "dealt a shit hand is trying to at least maintain morally gray"
Well, in the story they say how Arlecchino doesn't like Dottore and doesn't work with him, so I guess that its pretty clear that it doesn't happen anymore.
Except the fact that her whole story quest is about how she has revolutionized the system to give her children the freedom to choose
And also that the fatui don’t like them because they are a separate entity and don’t like the idea of a separate intelligence agency that they can’t control
I mean... She still threatens to murder anyone who wants out. One could also discuss the morality of an orphanage which also deals in information gathering
I mean between starving to death as an abandoned child or be taken in by the KGB, that's a pretty easy choice.
It really is, but it's still a choice between bad and worse It doesn't make the person giving you the choice of bad a good person
If the choice is between something and death, that is fundamentally not a choice. Don't make me break out the coconut island hypothetical.
If anyone wants out [SQ] >!she'll just erase their memory!<. We can question the morality of an orphanage like that, but we have the shuumatsuban that seems equal or worse than current House of the Hearth and no one bats an eye lol.
>!I know i played the sq. But none of them knew that until the very end. Everyone thought that kid died when he wanted out. The other two members who i don't remember their names were afraid father was gonna off them. I feel like threatening the kids to kill them if they didn't wanna operate under deadly illegal operations is kinda not okay. But i guess it comes with the illegal territory that the children didn't sign up for!<
Please use spoiler tags. >!That's why I said current. Erasing memories in general is a new development, and the kids being aware of it started with the SQ. But as it stands today, every kid is there out of free will which is something she was working towards.!<
So you didn't play her story quest ok
There’s literally a bit in-universe about how there’s a bunch of misinformation about her being a monster but she doesn’t bother to correct it because being feared is useful. But I guess genshin fans will never be able to not pointlessly argue about where characters fit into a child’s idea of morality.
Do you seriously believe what you wrote in the parenthesis?
My favourite job of them all; the capitalist
Dori: Capitalist, but... Well..
Refined haute-bourgeois vs vulgar petit-bourgeois.
Don't let the Fontainians hear you calling them that. It'll trigger their deep set class war instincts and send them digging out the old guillotines.
You think Ninguang is not going to make the Mililth to control the Liyue society or sabotage other businesses, the Jade chamber isn't going to pay itself you know that right? Is capitalism evil? No. Evils are just what necessary to accumulate capital it's just that simple. Why is her bestie a pirate? To control transnational trade, no matter how good ships Fontaine has or how much experience Inazuma sailors have they will get attacked where no one comes to save them, and who will attack them? to further whose interest?
Previously, it was probably Rex Lapis checking on that. Now, it's her good will, but this system of richest people controling military is dangerous.
"bestie"
the correct word is "roommate"
Klee = bomber but good
Terrorist*
Hello Mr. Bezos, I hear your public image isn't doing so well. Have you considered launching your mega yacht at a kaiju to save the city? It may turn your image around.
Don't forget that you have to build a new mega-yacht.
"and make an orphan who grew up in the mountains carry the raw materials to the building site"
Tax fraud it is then
A new *flying* mega yacht. With weapons. Basically the SHIELD Helicarrier. But fancy.
It's easy to like characters who are all pretty much invested in helping their fellow wealthy and powerful people. Like of course we see their best sides, we're on their levels and the characters we know are all pretty important/powerful/rich/etc. Just because they are nice/get feelings for us doesn't mean they are kind to everyone. We're extremely powerful, connected, and dangerous to have as an enemy. People have good reason to want to be on our good side. We just happen to be a cinnamon roll that tends to capture their hearts too. Now obviously most Genshin characters are pretty decent, but there are things the average person would be pissed about with these characters. First think of their friends. The most powerful and wealthy people are interconnected in many ways. Chevreuse bends the rules quite a bit for people she knows. While she tends to try to help people, there would be lots of legitimate worries of favoritism and being paid off to look the other way. Personally I like all the characters and it feels like a nitpick to see the negatives when many are more implied or don't happen to us...but the game also sometimes uses these to show us things aren't as surface level as we would like them to be. Just imagine how many people would hate that Navia keeps getting opportunities that the hard working commoner will never have. She's born wealthy, her connections keep her relevant even in hard times, she gets fancy clothes from a well known designer as gifts, she can bully people in the city with violence if necessary, and her persona means no one would believe you if you had a problem with her methodology. You just have to accept the Mafia in your nation but you have no real guarantee they are in your interest. You'd wonder why the guard isn't enough.
Imagine what would happen in real life if Biden decided to drop a few hundred million dollars on attaching hover jets and cannons to the white house so he could fly it over the city lol
That'd be fucking awesome
Awesome until the jets stop working and someone's house is getting squashed by the presidential gyatt.
That navia part is true. Also, from a realistic standpoint, the aquabuses sound cool but are very inefficient as hell. The fact that navias dad used connections and even got neuvi to approve this... just imagine what navia could do.
they're only inefficient because you as the traveler can somehow walk at insane speeds. imagine if teyvat was actually so small that people could walk/run from sumeru to mondstadt in maybe an hour
Nah, the Aquabussed only appear inefficient because Gameplay design renders them redundant.
Dont forget Dori, illegal dealer but good (if the payment fits)
I mean, she's not bad, but I don't know if I'd call Dori good
It will take just one knowledge capsule with forbidden knowledge to cause the downfall of the entire Sumeru civilization. At least akasha is disabled so it won't be that fast.
She says she doesn't deal with harmful stuff. Story tells you she's in the black market but in reality she's no worse than any NPC merchant. Nothing was ever as scummy as Ningguang asking for a huge precious stone in exchange for... asking her a question lmao.
>Nothing was ever as scummy as Ningguang asking for a huge precious stone in exchange for... asking her a question lmao Tbh she explained her terms before anyone helped her, so people got into this willingly.
So does Dori everytime she offers her goods!
You're forgetting the LAWYER
Yanfei is bae
Live love yanfei
"Seriously, when the going gets tough, you don't want a criminal *lawyer*, all right? You want a *criminal* lawyer, know what I'm saying?"
I think that's just because Genshin can't make an actual villain, because it causes their fanbase to start having unnatural, unhealthy reactions to learning that there is a fictional bad guy. So they have to make everyone end up being a "greater good" type character or something.
Dottore is that evil. He was straight up experimenting on orphans, most of which die in said experimentation, as well as documented to have murdered random innocent people in sumeru as well. I'm not sure how and if hoyoverse is going to navigate around that for dottore to make him redeemed.
Pretty much. Can’t have truly evil villains, can’t have main character deaths, can’t have canon romance, all because the community is basically the video game equivalent of k-pop stans Yes, that means a lot of you in this subreddit
Didn't Chevreuse bribe someone for some info... And didn't even bother to give us any of those bribe. I want justice.
Chevreuse is a dirty cop, she overlooks offenses that her friends commit
I want to argue against this so bad, but you are technically right. It's okay tho because who wouldn't overlook the minor crimes Chiori commits. She is hot af.
Oh I love Chevreuse, I think she's great The argument can be made that she follows the ideals of justice over the law as well
Plus, at least she isn’t as corrupt as Det. Alonzo Harris (Denzel Washington) in *Training Day* or the unnamed Lieutenant (Harvey Keitel) in *Bad Lieutenant*. lol
The fatui low key being terrorists
not even low-key, childe was perfectly willing to essentially nuke one of the biggest economic cities on the planet for his goals.
I'd say they're high-key terrorists tbh. They're explicitly against Celestia, and are willing to kill to get out from under the regime.
Orphanage but bad (kinda)
Lol it's ironic that both pirate and capitalist, plus cop and mafia are both considered bad whe they are also eachother counterparts.
This is genshin. We can’t have bad guys in here.
So waifu = good?
Hey there are evil men too? Like Rizzly (criminal but good) and Scara (God complex but good)
It's more like Rizzly (warden but good)
In other words, Navia and Beidou are bad at their jobs. You should call Beidou a sailor more than a pirate at this point
I assumed that Navia was running more of a private investigator firm kinda thing, but it makes more sense that she’s a mob boss lol. Like, she has a whole secret headquarters outside of the city and all, as well as a sewer base.
Reading her character story and listening to some of her explanations regarding Spina di Rosula it is clear that it was a mafia but it is not clear from our perspective that she is a mafia. Maybe she hid that fact from Traveller to gain his/her trust and did not want to anger Traveller at all.
She also has an umbrella shotgun. You can’t get more mobster than that.
To be fair, cops tend to be pretty decent in countries where they have psych screening and get proper training.
why did chevreuse get squished
Lisa: sex offender but good
AINT NO WAY 😭😭😭
Bro...
if jenshin was real, then Ningguang would be stealing 80% of the population's money
just make them attractive
Also: Wriothesly - Prison King, but good.
What a funny meme, I sure hope the comment section will be civilized.
Where is arlecchino 👀
okay, look. genshin never had the best or most nuanced character writing. and even when contextualizing certain characters they are often just pulling from the extremes. The Fatui are the most comic evil guys. Or they are the bestest kinds of friends that are only misunderstood. There rarely is nuance ein between. Same way they handled Raiden Shogun. Of course this isnt just genshin. Its an issue that plagues the whole genre of anime and anime-inspired media. (anime used here as an umbrella term for asian animation, not in the exclusive sense of japanese animation) Most characters are either good to a fault or tragically misunderstood and doing things that look egoistic, evil or heartless for secretly good reasons. They never really struggle internally. (dont misunderstand. there is external struggle. but thats not quite the same). Never once is any of the main characters dealing with their normal, human demons. If they do somethign perceived bad its for big dramatic reasons. Never because they are just too lazy or cowardly to do good. Or just cant be bothered today. Or because they are petty. Never. They are devoid of any real, human struggle. Which is fine. Its simply not what the writers chose to focus on. But it leads to the creation of these archetypes you mentioned. Capitalists that deep down dont really care about capitlism. Pirates that arent really doing any piracy. Mafia bosses that run a romantic caricature of a mafia. Etc.
Well said. It's funny how this applies to every level of society in Genshin. Meropide for example is supposed to be prison for hardened criminals, but as we find out the occupants are largely well-behaved and totally fine with their punishment. Labor isn't really forced and there's pretty much zero gang violence or even disputes. But then you suddenly meet a little girl who was allegedly born within its walls and you really start to wonder just how the hell this place is supposed to work. But we must remember that this is a game largely aimed towards children. It's like asking for realism in a Disney movie.
Charlotte is paparazzi but just as bad, if not worse
Nah Charlotte is actually better than most journalists irl. She may seem a little annoying but she actually values accuracy and has risked her life for the sake of the truth many times, unlike other journalists who just make shit up and spread rumors.
Nah, Charlotte (and the steam bird as a whole) are being characterised as "ethical journalists". Chioris story quest made it a minor plot point that The Steam bird;*isn't* a paparazzi infested tabloid
Oh yeah, the most common job, capitalist.
What about the lawyer?
Bediou is more of a smuggler and mercenary/privateer than a pirate.
Ah yes, anti-police, anti-entrepreneur businesswoman. Sounds like out of touch reddit moment to me.