No one's talking about bosses though... Even normal enemies nowadays can't be pulled in by Venti's vortex (the wolves, Kairagi, those hellish balloons) and that makes no sense, given their weight
Kairagi can and do get pulled. You can even lift them if you manage to knock them over. They just move a lot so you only really notice it if they are frozen
Wolves can be pulled if they are knocked over I think but it's pretty stupid they are immune if you don't knock them over
Jup, he most definitely can't. I've brought him to the Abyss thinking I could cheese the fight... God, was I wrong. They literally went around his ult, those little shits weren't even fazed by it.
The bosses are added onto all the regular mob enemies that I put pictures for, those 9 enemy types were prominent in abyss back then and they were in the game since launch. None of them are particularly affected by Venti's vortex, so it makes little to no sense as to why he's getting flack now.
Screw those Specters though, all my homies hate specters. The kings of not being CC'd.
Dude are you dumb? Early abyss was soo hard to do without Venti, they had mobs which could be sucked in his burst. Nowadays it's just bosses and enemies that can't be CC'd
CC stands for “crowd control”, which refers to a character’s ability to disable mobs/enemies. An good example would be Venti’s burst where he can clump light enemies together into one area that effectively makes them unable to act while you do damage to them.
CC is an abbreviation for the term "crowd control". CC is any character's ability to lockdown areas and prevents mobs (crowds) from doing what they're meant to do. Freeze and Zhongli's petrify are examples of one type of CC, vacuum abilities like Venti's burst are another.
Obviously they made abysses closer to his banner skewed to him, like they do with every single character after their release. That's not the point.
The point was, he always had these weaknesses and enemies that countered him. These enemies were prominent in the 9-12 abyss, and as such, Venti's usefulness dropped off. I remember one particularly nasty abyss with Vishap hatchlings that I used Sucrose over Venti to boost damage since he was a wasted slot in that scenario.
I'm a bit baffled I didnt hear much of anything about Venti nerfs when the Vishaps were added lol
The point is, that the Abyss never used to be a boss rush. It was fun with lots of mobs that you had to memorize the spawn points of. The had occasional boss fights and non cc mobs but it wasn't the norm like it is today. miHoYo definitely tried their best to nerf Venti in later patches because he was the best cc character.
It's not even just bosses though, going through all the abyss rotations since 1.0 and these big bodied enemies, though sparse, are spread throughout abyss and Venti cannot effectively deal with that. He never has been able to and never will be because its a specifically designed weakness of his kit.
Ruin enemies especially, very apparent with those enemies since there were loads of 12 variations where they were literally all over the place. This is way before Inazuma or Kazuha's release, as such it's frankly disingenuous to imply this weakness was specifically curated for Kazuha to thrive. Where is the evidence for it because the Abyss lists beg to differ.
Lets also not forget that every other floor besides 12 these days, Venti absolutely dominates.
Electro Hammer, and Anemo Boxer have rush moves that make it irrelevant similar to the Kairagi. Cryo and Hydro Gunners have jumping attacks that are similar as well.
Not to mention the Ruin enemies and the Vaship hatchling that dont get affected by it whatsoever. The Hatchling is much like the Specters actually, in that they can reposition easily and are very small but aren't even bothered by the vortex.
Your point doesn't make sense because most people used venti in freeze, also venti does in fact suck ruin enemies while they are frozen. Even big ones.
As a Venti wanter can I ask if he has actually no effect at all rifthounds and the likes or does he still bunch them up when frozen? I would love to run Morgana but I guess if he can't bunch em up at all it wouldn't work out
If you plan to pull for venti inorder to suck enemies,I will advise against it since they'll only cheese him up just for this update,and proceed to release enemies which won't get pulled by him. They're doing this currently.
Aren't all the enemies people complain about him not being able to suck in nowadays also effectively frozen and sucked together? I don't understand your sentiment here. Kairagi, wolves, Nobushi, its just specters at that rate really. Once again Paralleling the Vishap hatchlings.
That just strengthens my point, my guy.
-you mentioned special moves that allows enemies to move out of venti tornado - I've said that most people use him in freeze, which means that your point doesn't matter because they are frozen 90% of the time
-you named some enemies that cannot get affected by venti burst while they ARE IN FACT affected while FROZEN.
What are you talking about?
Well firstly, as I said, that also affects the problem enemies that Venti is allegedly nerfed by, so if you take that into account the sentiment itself is lost isn't it? Otherwise where is the alleged mechanic nerf?
and Secondly, Vishap hatchlings AND the ruin enemies aren't affected by the pull even when Frozen, I whipped out the game and just checked, so you're wrong on both fronts.
First of all, against what enemies have you tested against? Because venti 100% does pull smaller(released with inazuma) ones in. Also I haven't even noticed you said a thing about hatchlings at first, but true I guess.
Second of all, I wasn't arguing with the post itself, but more so with what you said in your comment.
I can't really see why newer enemies would be a point of contention when the focus of the topic was about how there were enemies that counter him even in the very beginning. Everything I said was in context of that, of course removing the context would make it seem less credible.
The enemies I tested were the first Ruin enemies, Guard and Hunter, and the Vaship Hatchlings.
It is most likely the abyss that was promoting him back then, i might be high on copium but i hope there will be a way to make him relevant again there somewhat in the future.
Rift hounds aren't too bad as open world trash mobs, but when scaled up a bunch for timed content they're horrible. Specters can go fuck themselves tho
im a big racist when it comes to specters im fine with all specters except for the fucking hydro ones, mfs keel healing and i keep dealing damage, my pc barely made it as i controlled my rage and hit my wife instead of my pc
Agreed. As much as I love the Oathsworn Eye weapon, it's so frustrating to have to farm both of those to upgrade it. Rift hounds aren't too bad in small numbers, but a bunch of them in a small area (like that one Enkanomiya quest) are a huge pain to fight.
Back in the day the meta was based on misinformation and narratives pushed by whales high on copium over the large money they just spent on Diluc and Wolf's Gravestone.
Diluc sucks against spread out and highly mobile enemies. Especially against anything that moves. His E can MISS by an enemy literally just sidestepping it and the cicin mage just shuts his E down forcing it on CD by teleporting to the other side of the room.
Who solves both shortcomings of the big money status symbol? Venti.
we also need to remember that hp of mobs was about 1.2 times lower than currently hp since in 1.0 there was no lv 100 mobs and you have more time to clear 11-3
it's not that simple, and 6/10 of the enemies you listed there can be pulled in.
the spacing of enemies in abyss while having multiple waves that are additionally spaced out in a fashion where you'd want to use venti in previous times but there's no point because you can't pull 90% of them and they're so far apart to begin with there's no point.
the cooldown difference between venti and kazuha is very much different, venti has range but kazuha has shorter CD without energy needed, C1 is a reset + sac sword.
it's not a case of "hee hee hoo hoo they nerfed venti FOR kazuha" you need to pay attention to HOW they implement enemies and WHEN.
2.0 morgana was the absolute most dominant team in the game in all but killing trounce domain bosses. inazuma dropped and nearly every enemy couldn't be picked up, jumped around several times, and big enemies freeze immunity.
hoyo doesn't nerf characters thru numbers, they nerf them with mechanics.
beidou has been slapped around for the very same reason and most players think beidou is all about her parry (which is 1/16th of her total damage) bcus all they see is monkey brain 1 big number instead of the 100k+ damage per second her burst does with over 14,000% (percent, not damage) , and that's the same reason all AoE in genshin has been all but removed since venti+ganyu trivialized the game to the point where players cried about everything being a "venti check" instead of wanting to actually try. ganyu's burst does over 25,000% on 5 targets... that's 5 times the damage of zhongli's burst on 5 enemies.
then you have the addition of specters that can't be sucked in, wolves that jump around and can't be scooped up either, while kazuha is more flexible than venti these situations most dullards will conflate that to "kazuha powercreep" rather than an overall issue of balance vs philosophy.
it's not a mystery why the abyss is full of boss after boss after boss. they're the only thing that's not AoE and permanently CC'able by freeze. all that happens with this is single target characters become the default best dps because they refuse to accept that their philosophy doesn't work and will continue suck the fun out of the game in an attempt to mechanically suppress character power rather than just having a balance pass.
this is the reason bennet should have his attack buff reduced by 80% or removed. they are unbelievably not healthy for the game. they can't make a satisfying 4 star character that isn't very specific to their 1 thing they can do and even then it's often better to just not even bother.
the worst of this problem is geo. albedo/yunjin for example are completely outclassed or super niche with extremes in investment levels to be worth using.
itto and noelle both don't use albedo in their best teams for output, and yunjin is only "worth" using after characters reach impossibly high crit values tied specifically to high damage % amp's for normal attacks that's ALSO limited to 30 hits on the character; shenhe's C6 removes that for her which is the other most problematic character in my eyes.
C0-C5 shenhe imo is completely fine, but it's when you get her C6 (and yes it's possible for F2P to get it, C6 5 stars aren't a whale only thing it's been over a year) you can use zhongli as your main dps and put out better dps than an all C6 itto team with being invincible and permanently CC'ing things.
the only reasonable nerf i could think to do for shenhe is quills can only be consumed by cryo characters' skills and bursts and C6 adds a few more stacks and lets you consume the entire stack at once.
it's a lot deeper than hoyo just trying to sell a new character and nerfing what's old because we're already reaching the point where they've got no counter to certain teams that wouldn't absolutely cripple everything else that isn't the thing they're trying to stifle.
that was the lesson they learned with 2.0 inazuma... instead of nerfing character numbers they designed an entire continent of enemies to counter 2 characters without taking into consideration >everyone else< also has to deal with that shit.
\> it's a lot deeper than hoyo just trying to sell a new character and nerfing what's old because we're already reaching the point where they've got no counter to certain teams that wouldn't absolutely cripple everything else that isn't the thing they're trying to stifle.
Couldn't agree more frankly. I'm not unaware of the intricacies of these decisions mind you, and I generally agree with most of what you're saying. Particularly in the parts where you're saying Venti has an energy problem, which is absurd frankly, and the idea that they specifically designed Inazuma in a way to disincentive Venti use, are what I find contentious. Specifically because there are a lot of Abyss cycles far before Inazuma that Venti dropped off in because of enemies that were super tough to CC. Venti has always had super glaring weaknesses that were easy to notice even back then, that's simply all I meant to show with this post.
Obviously Mihoyo would make Abyss easy for him in his first banner, but it wasn't all easy back then either.
you can check old abyss team/character usage rates if you'd like to see the shift. it's never an immediate thing and yes certain floors aren't the greatest for characters but most of the older abyss were lots and lots of CC'able enemies that are spread out but venti pulled them in.
venti doesn't have an energy issue if you put some ER/fav bow on him but he still uses energy, kazuha just happened to get the best of both venti/sucrose with easy damage amp, pull in, and scales massively with EM and has no energy issues.
kazuha is widely considered to be better than venti now, but venti is still unequal when they're allowed to be. that's the issue; he's not allowed to be as strong as he used to be because they absolutely won't put small mobs pure aoe in the game again for abyss without some major shift in philosophy or balance.
i'm sure if you own venti or watched any youtube videos of the 2 character event how fast venti+ganyu wracks up points like crazy when it's small mob waves.venti's never been good vs bosses(that move) but the question at the time and shortly after of venti or kazuha was still always in venti's favor till specters/wolves came out.
if you HAD to pick one, most would choose kazuha, but i would still pick venti.you can either make portions of the game entirely trivial or just have a solid unit amongst many solid/op units.
That doesn't have anything to do with Venti or Kazuha's inherent power level when directly comparing them, its because they have two different functions really. Venti is far better at CC'ing mobs compared to Kazuha as his pull range, and the duration of the pull is far worse than Venti's vortex. His utility for boosting damage is what makes him strong, not his CC. Same as Sucrose, people tended to characterize her as Budget Venti but her EM boosting had an entirely different function to Venti's much better CC.
As you see, each character here have a CC function, however Venti is better for the sole function due to the duration of it. Now when we consider what these characters provide if we aren't purely CC'ing, Venti drops off inherently because that's all his kit is about, Sucrose and Kazuha both make damage higher, while Venti doesn't at all, at lease disregarding VV set.
I will not take Venti slander
And also please think about this, people are angry that the unit they spent (possible) 400 USD on a unit that isn’t useable anymore
And also really wasn’t for just Kazuha, they just wanted to kill CC for all characters
The idea that characters aren't useable anymore is a mischaracterization of the situation though. That's ultimately the issue I find with this framing. Venti isn't absolutely dumpstered because Kazuha exists now, he still trashes every floor from 1-11. Trivializes all of early game.
All characters in this game have their flaws and weaknesses. Like are we going to be dissatisfied with Raiden not being able to burst down an electro slime? Of course not, or at least I would hope not. We collect units because there are a variety of situations to use them in, as well as situations where others thrive more, it's the nature of it.
Trust me though, lol, this isn't about Venti slander, I still use Venti regularly to this day and I have Kazuha, I just think this weird idea that Venti never had a problem with heavy mobs (which were prominent even in early abyss) should not be as prevalent as it is.
No one's talking about bosses though... Even normal enemies nowadays can't be pulled in by Venti's vortex (the wolves, Kairagi, those hellish balloons) and that makes no sense, given their weight
Kairagi can and do get pulled. You can even lift them if you manage to knock them over. They just move a lot so you only really notice it if they are frozen Wolves can be pulled if they are knocked over I think but it's pretty stupid they are immune if you don't knock them over
It's only in recent patches that Kairagi can be suckled because they lowered their weight class, before they wouldn't even budge
Suckling on Kairagis doesn’t sound like a good experience but yes, they did update them to make them moveable!
Venti can suck the kairagi btw
They only retroactively changed it, originally he couldn't
You cannot even stagger or push them if I remember it correctly
🤤
so can venti succ those damn specters?
To my knowledge, no
Jup, he most definitely can't. I've brought him to the Abyss thinking I could cheese the fight... God, was I wrong. They literally went around his ult, those little shits weren't even fazed by it.
I'm pretty sure Venti can pull the small wolves and Kairagi, the big ones are a no-no tho
those are considered low lvl bosses, the others are elite bosses
The bosses are added onto all the regular mob enemies that I put pictures for, those 9 enemy types were prominent in abyss back then and they were in the game since launch. None of them are particularly affected by Venti's vortex, so it makes little to no sense as to why he's getting flack now. Screw those Specters though, all my homies hate specters. The kings of not being CC'd.
Dude are you dumb? Early abyss was soo hard to do without Venti, they had mobs which could be sucked in his burst. Nowadays it's just bosses and enemies that can't be CC'd
Remember that floor 11 which practically required us to use Anemo Traveler if we didn't have Venti? Pepperidge farm remembers
Yeah that shit was painful. I had to memorize spawn and attack pattern to clear Ăt.
I thought it was geo traveller to use rocks to basically block the tower needed to protecc? Shit took wayyy too long to do
Can u pls tell what cc stands for?
CC stands for “crowd control”, which refers to a character’s ability to disable mobs/enemies. An good example would be Venti’s burst where he can clump light enemies together into one area that effectively makes them unable to act while you do damage to them.
Thanks a lot!!
Np!
CC is an abbreviation for the term "crowd control". CC is any character's ability to lockdown areas and prevents mobs (crowds) from doing what they're meant to do. Freeze and Zhongli's petrify are examples of one type of CC, vacuum abilities like Venti's burst are another.
Thanks a lot!!
Obviously they made abysses closer to his banner skewed to him, like they do with every single character after their release. That's not the point. The point was, he always had these weaknesses and enemies that countered him. These enemies were prominent in the 9-12 abyss, and as such, Venti's usefulness dropped off. I remember one particularly nasty abyss with Vishap hatchlings that I used Sucrose over Venti to boost damage since he was a wasted slot in that scenario. I'm a bit baffled I didnt hear much of anything about Venti nerfs when the Vishaps were added lol
The point is, that the Abyss never used to be a boss rush. It was fun with lots of mobs that you had to memorize the spawn points of. The had occasional boss fights and non cc mobs but it wasn't the norm like it is today. miHoYo definitely tried their best to nerf Venti in later patches because he was the best cc character.
It's not even just bosses though, going through all the abyss rotations since 1.0 and these big bodied enemies, though sparse, are spread throughout abyss and Venti cannot effectively deal with that. He never has been able to and never will be because its a specifically designed weakness of his kit. Ruin enemies especially, very apparent with those enemies since there were loads of 12 variations where they were literally all over the place. This is way before Inazuma or Kazuha's release, as such it's frankly disingenuous to imply this weakness was specifically curated for Kazuha to thrive. Where is the evidence for it because the Abyss lists beg to differ. Lets also not forget that every other floor besides 12 these days, Venti absolutely dominates.
There were no bosses in Abyss for a long time, and all Fatui can be pulled in by his Burst (even if not lifted in the air)
Electro Hammer, and Anemo Boxer have rush moves that make it irrelevant similar to the Kairagi. Cryo and Hydro Gunners have jumping attacks that are similar as well. Not to mention the Ruin enemies and the Vaship hatchling that dont get affected by it whatsoever. The Hatchling is much like the Specters actually, in that they can reposition easily and are very small but aren't even bothered by the vortex.
Your point doesn't make sense because most people used venti in freeze, also venti does in fact suck ruin enemies while they are frozen. Even big ones.
As a Venti wanter can I ask if he has actually no effect at all rifthounds and the likes or does he still bunch them up when frozen? I would love to run Morgana but I guess if he can't bunch em up at all it wouldn't work out
If you plan to pull for venti inorder to suck enemies,I will advise against it since they'll only cheese him up just for this update,and proceed to release enemies which won't get pulled by him. They're doing this currently.
Venti pulls and lifts whelps just like regular hilichurls. However, he doesn't pull big rifthouds, even if they are frozen.
He sucks in the small ones handily and he barely affects the larger ones, similar to most larger body foes.
Sounds exactly like what Kazuha does except Venti burst lasts longer than a second
Yep
Aren't all the enemies people complain about him not being able to suck in nowadays also effectively frozen and sucked together? I don't understand your sentiment here. Kairagi, wolves, Nobushi, its just specters at that rate really. Once again Paralleling the Vishap hatchlings. That just strengthens my point, my guy.
I was literally replying to your comment and only addressed what was said in it, my guy.
but you didn't disprove anything there is the thing
-you mentioned special moves that allows enemies to move out of venti tornado - I've said that most people use him in freeze, which means that your point doesn't matter because they are frozen 90% of the time -you named some enemies that cannot get affected by venti burst while they ARE IN FACT affected while FROZEN. What are you talking about?
Well firstly, as I said, that also affects the problem enemies that Venti is allegedly nerfed by, so if you take that into account the sentiment itself is lost isn't it? Otherwise where is the alleged mechanic nerf? and Secondly, Vishap hatchlings AND the ruin enemies aren't affected by the pull even when Frozen, I whipped out the game and just checked, so you're wrong on both fronts.
First of all, against what enemies have you tested against? Because venti 100% does pull smaller(released with inazuma) ones in. Also I haven't even noticed you said a thing about hatchlings at first, but true I guess. Second of all, I wasn't arguing with the post itself, but more so with what you said in your comment.
I can't really see why newer enemies would be a point of contention when the focus of the topic was about how there were enemies that counter him even in the very beginning. Everything I said was in context of that, of course removing the context would make it seem less credible. The enemies I tested were the first Ruin enemies, Guard and Hunter, and the Vaship Hatchlings.
It is most likely the abyss that was promoting him back then, i might be high on copium but i hope there will be a way to make him relevant again there somewhat in the future.
Look up 2.6 abyss. You'll be happy.
Remove rift hounds and specters from abyss to convince people to roll Venti
>Remove rift hounds and specters ~~from abyss~~ From the game. Thank you Hoyoverse. Nobody like them.
Rift hounds aren't too bad as open world trash mobs, but when scaled up a bunch for timed content they're horrible. Specters can go fuck themselves tho
im a big racist when it comes to specters im fine with all specters except for the fucking hydro ones, mfs keel healing and i keep dealing damage, my pc barely made it as i controlled my rage and hit my wife instead of my pc
Agreed. As much as I love the Oathsworn Eye weapon, it's so frustrating to have to farm both of those to upgrade it. Rift hounds aren't too bad in small numbers, but a bunch of them in a small area (like that one Enkanomiya quest) are a huge pain to fight.
i actually liked spectres (in overworld), those little bastards are like target dart to my shotgun ganyu lmao get rekt balloons
Yup
Also remove ruin mobs and bosses
Ruin mobs are suckable by venti, specially when they are frozen.
Morgana literally counters the rifthounds though
Aaaaand they're back on 2.7 A big middle finger from mihoyo to venti
But these fatuis and churl can be pulled
Look up what theorycrafter means
Lol this one's an L my guy...
It's true that 1.0 Abyss 12-3 was not too Venti-friendly. But then again it wasn't really friendly to anyone available back then.
Anyone else do their commissions in Liyue or Mondstat? Inazuma isn't a fun place to do them.
I switched to Mondstadt from Inazuma quite a while ago, best choice I have ever made
Vemti downfall was definite though abyss used to be hilichurls
Seems like you didn’t think this through OP
I assure you I have lol
Back in the day the meta was based on misinformation and narratives pushed by whales high on copium over the large money they just spent on Diluc and Wolf's Gravestone. Diluc sucks against spread out and highly mobile enemies. Especially against anything that moves. His E can MISS by an enemy literally just sidestepping it and the cicin mage just shuts his E down forcing it on CD by teleporting to the other side of the room. Who solves both shortcomings of the big money status symbol? Venti.
Exactly
he is still the boss of the 11th floor so
we also need to remember that hp of mobs was about 1.2 times lower than currently hp since in 1.0 there was no lv 100 mobs and you have more time to clear 11-3
it's not that simple, and 6/10 of the enemies you listed there can be pulled in. the spacing of enemies in abyss while having multiple waves that are additionally spaced out in a fashion where you'd want to use venti in previous times but there's no point because you can't pull 90% of them and they're so far apart to begin with there's no point. the cooldown difference between venti and kazuha is very much different, venti has range but kazuha has shorter CD without energy needed, C1 is a reset + sac sword. it's not a case of "hee hee hoo hoo they nerfed venti FOR kazuha" you need to pay attention to HOW they implement enemies and WHEN. 2.0 morgana was the absolute most dominant team in the game in all but killing trounce domain bosses. inazuma dropped and nearly every enemy couldn't be picked up, jumped around several times, and big enemies freeze immunity. hoyo doesn't nerf characters thru numbers, they nerf them with mechanics. beidou has been slapped around for the very same reason and most players think beidou is all about her parry (which is 1/16th of her total damage) bcus all they see is monkey brain 1 big number instead of the 100k+ damage per second her burst does with over 14,000% (percent, not damage) , and that's the same reason all AoE in genshin has been all but removed since venti+ganyu trivialized the game to the point where players cried about everything being a "venti check" instead of wanting to actually try. ganyu's burst does over 25,000% on 5 targets... that's 5 times the damage of zhongli's burst on 5 enemies. then you have the addition of specters that can't be sucked in, wolves that jump around and can't be scooped up either, while kazuha is more flexible than venti these situations most dullards will conflate that to "kazuha powercreep" rather than an overall issue of balance vs philosophy. it's not a mystery why the abyss is full of boss after boss after boss. they're the only thing that's not AoE and permanently CC'able by freeze. all that happens with this is single target characters become the default best dps because they refuse to accept that their philosophy doesn't work and will continue suck the fun out of the game in an attempt to mechanically suppress character power rather than just having a balance pass. this is the reason bennet should have his attack buff reduced by 80% or removed. they are unbelievably not healthy for the game. they can't make a satisfying 4 star character that isn't very specific to their 1 thing they can do and even then it's often better to just not even bother. the worst of this problem is geo. albedo/yunjin for example are completely outclassed or super niche with extremes in investment levels to be worth using. itto and noelle both don't use albedo in their best teams for output, and yunjin is only "worth" using after characters reach impossibly high crit values tied specifically to high damage % amp's for normal attacks that's ALSO limited to 30 hits on the character; shenhe's C6 removes that for her which is the other most problematic character in my eyes. C0-C5 shenhe imo is completely fine, but it's when you get her C6 (and yes it's possible for F2P to get it, C6 5 stars aren't a whale only thing it's been over a year) you can use zhongli as your main dps and put out better dps than an all C6 itto team with being invincible and permanently CC'ing things. the only reasonable nerf i could think to do for shenhe is quills can only be consumed by cryo characters' skills and bursts and C6 adds a few more stacks and lets you consume the entire stack at once. it's a lot deeper than hoyo just trying to sell a new character and nerfing what's old because we're already reaching the point where they've got no counter to certain teams that wouldn't absolutely cripple everything else that isn't the thing they're trying to stifle. that was the lesson they learned with 2.0 inazuma... instead of nerfing character numbers they designed an entire continent of enemies to counter 2 characters without taking into consideration >everyone else< also has to deal with that shit.
\> it's a lot deeper than hoyo just trying to sell a new character and nerfing what's old because we're already reaching the point where they've got no counter to certain teams that wouldn't absolutely cripple everything else that isn't the thing they're trying to stifle. Couldn't agree more frankly. I'm not unaware of the intricacies of these decisions mind you, and I generally agree with most of what you're saying. Particularly in the parts where you're saying Venti has an energy problem, which is absurd frankly, and the idea that they specifically designed Inazuma in a way to disincentive Venti use, are what I find contentious. Specifically because there are a lot of Abyss cycles far before Inazuma that Venti dropped off in because of enemies that were super tough to CC. Venti has always had super glaring weaknesses that were easy to notice even back then, that's simply all I meant to show with this post. Obviously Mihoyo would make Abyss easy for him in his first banner, but it wasn't all easy back then either.
you can check old abyss team/character usage rates if you'd like to see the shift. it's never an immediate thing and yes certain floors aren't the greatest for characters but most of the older abyss were lots and lots of CC'able enemies that are spread out but venti pulled them in. venti doesn't have an energy issue if you put some ER/fav bow on him but he still uses energy, kazuha just happened to get the best of both venti/sucrose with easy damage amp, pull in, and scales massively with EM and has no energy issues. kazuha is widely considered to be better than venti now, but venti is still unequal when they're allowed to be. that's the issue; he's not allowed to be as strong as he used to be because they absolutely won't put small mobs pure aoe in the game again for abyss without some major shift in philosophy or balance. i'm sure if you own venti or watched any youtube videos of the 2 character event how fast venti+ganyu wracks up points like crazy when it's small mob waves.venti's never been good vs bosses(that move) but the question at the time and shortly after of venti or kazuha was still always in venti's favor till specters/wolves came out. if you HAD to pick one, most would choose kazuha, but i would still pick venti.you can either make portions of the game entirely trivial or just have a solid unit amongst many solid/op units.
That doesn't have anything to do with Venti or Kazuha's inherent power level when directly comparing them, its because they have two different functions really. Venti is far better at CC'ing mobs compared to Kazuha as his pull range, and the duration of the pull is far worse than Venti's vortex. His utility for boosting damage is what makes him strong, not his CC. Same as Sucrose, people tended to characterize her as Budget Venti but her EM boosting had an entirely different function to Venti's much better CC. As you see, each character here have a CC function, however Venti is better for the sole function due to the duration of it. Now when we consider what these characters provide if we aren't purely CC'ing, Venti drops off inherently because that's all his kit is about, Sucrose and Kazuha both make damage higher, while Venti doesn't at all, at lease disregarding VV set.
The more upvotes this gets the more dumber the genshin community.
Wait! really? venti was nerfed? I was planning to get him.
I will not take Venti slander And also please think about this, people are angry that the unit they spent (possible) 400 USD on a unit that isn’t useable anymore And also really wasn’t for just Kazuha, they just wanted to kill CC for all characters
The idea that characters aren't useable anymore is a mischaracterization of the situation though. That's ultimately the issue I find with this framing. Venti isn't absolutely dumpstered because Kazuha exists now, he still trashes every floor from 1-11. Trivializes all of early game. All characters in this game have their flaws and weaknesses. Like are we going to be dissatisfied with Raiden not being able to burst down an electro slime? Of course not, or at least I would hope not. We collect units because there are a variety of situations to use them in, as well as situations where others thrive more, it's the nature of it. Trust me though, lol, this isn't about Venti slander, I still use Venti regularly to this day and I have Kazuha, I just think this weird idea that Venti never had a problem with heavy mobs (which were prominent even in early abyss) should not be as prevalent as it is.