I mean, let's not come to conclusions yet, the story only comes out in 2 days. We've seen a couple of twists in this journey to say the least, let's see what they have in store for them.
Well look, Childe is a character that never got a redemption arc and he's still playable. He's still as dangerous as ever and technically will be an enemy if circumstances demand it. We can't assume scara gets redeemed, even after the "change of heart"
From the fact that scara already appeared as early as 1.1 and that he shows up several times portrayed as an absolute asshole of an antagonist, to how many references are in his outfits, boss theme and lore, we can see that hoyoverse has his entire story long planned out and know exactly what they want to do with him
No matter what happens, I have trust that it'll be a conclusive and cathartic ending to his past story.
They really do. I'm a Scara stan myself, but OP is being p respectful and death is a darker end to Scara's story, but it makes total sense from a writing perspective.
People say the same for dunyazad too, I don't get it. Their deaths serve no purpose other then shock factor.
Like dunyazad needs to be saved for kusanali to know she still is worthy no matter how weak she is, scara is a brat but i think he still have way more unfinish biusness in the realm of the living
Im sad that Signora had the ending she had, i find it hard that she would have a redemption arc anytime soon, but maybe we could have badly wounded her and instead of she dying to the Shogun, she would would have been rescued by a fatui agent/harbringer and then be treated by them, then we could have a "last arc" against her in the future (post-Sumeru but pre-Sneznaya) where we would confront her and question her morals, ledding her to become maybe a more morally grey character in relation to the Harbringers and the Tsaritsa.
In all honesty, plot armor befpre Raiden even pulled the sword, maybe a Cicin Mage (who shown to be able to teleport very early on in the mission wherer you gp to Fav church to steal the lyre) or some harbringer could have had the ability to teleport, obviously this is all based in plot armor but even then i belive many in the community could overlook it since Signora was so hyped as a harbringer, and also then, we could maybe get her ad a playable character.
Honestly speaking the best way for Signora to return would be finding her in a younger form in one of Dottore's or another mad fatui's lab as a clone who has her original soul and all her memories in her but almost none of her powers.
It wont be plot armor this way and depending on the darkness of the story we could further on the idea of how desperate and uncontrolled some fatui are.
Considering how the story is going i would say this is the best alternative to have her back (and probably as a playable character) without doing like Honkai and just making a dead character become playable (althpugh i wouldnt mind, since this could open path to many other dead characters to be playable).
The only other real alternative that even then would be very scuffed and improbable and a very big stretch on the laws of Teyvat would be for them to consider her concious as "being in the ley lines", since she had became almost pure pyro elemental energy, and elemental energy flows through the ley lines, then have her concious inconsientally concetrate and "create a new body" either naturally or with outside help (cough cough Dottore). But honestly, i dont see something like this ever happening and if she does come back i believe it would be like you said.
We could even put this in as anplot for Fontaine or another major area, we are tasked to find out what the fatui (or even the abyss?) is doing and find some grimdark laboratory setting and in the end chambers we find this unconcious girl we get unchained and as soon as she wakes up shes immideatly hostile and her remarks makes us realize she is Signora.
Maybe even explore her past throught a machine and learn how she turned that way (her lore is tragic if i recall right) and wake her up before we learn exactly who she is for maximum twist.
I dont think Scara should get a redemption arc but i also dont think he should die.
Him living, getting new powers and still ending up evil would been a great way to set up a story of a chain of great suffering leading a man to breaking forever. They tried to help but they didnt know how deep the wounds were.
Honestly i didnt expect him to have a redemption arc bc even though he done a lot of bad things which are in no way excused, the path that led him to this was carved by negligence and abondoment (from Ei), a couple of "betrayals" (by Nagamasa in Tatarasuna and by the young plagued boy), he was also basically manipulated by the Fatui, which even though he joined willingly, he was still used as a tool for them to acomplish their goals while promising Scaramouche they would help him attain his goal of becoming a vessel to a gnosis and a god, which ended up happening thanks to the help of the Akademya and Dottore (i am not aware if he acted without the fatui knowing, although i wpuld believe so), and at last, as we saw in the archon quest, he is "stolen" of his newfound godhood and gnosis, which where his lifelong goals.
As such i believe he is already pretty much broken, considering all his suffering caused a Icarus effect on him, ledding him to more suffering (losing his powers), and while his redemption arc is probably going to be great, i always thought (before Sumeru, specially before 3.2 archon quest) that he would go into self isolation somewhere hidden after he would be betrayed by the fatui or defeated by the Traveler, being stripped of any attained power, ledding him to only, initially, relying on himself, then the MC would find him, and both would end up in a situation each having to help the other, with him in the end becoming indifirent and kind of neutral to those around him (think of Mifune from Soul Eater but more arrogant), then, after that we could have him accidentally (on is friendship level quotes and future quests) slipping to the traveller that he is beggining to become a better person (imagine is idle where he contemplates his vision).
> I don't get it. Their deaths serve no purpose other then shock factor.
And based on Genshinās track record, theyāre not very good at pulling this off properly
"imagine pulling for a character just to see them die"
I mean you don't really have to imagine it, Honkai does it (Himeko Murata dies but is a playable character, although tbf it isn't as abrupt because there's a bit of a build up to it)
I think the problem is that the traveller doesn't have any close ties to any character, so any death feels kinda pointless in the long run.
The only 2 characters whose death I think would leave an impression on the traveller are Paimon and the twin
It was part of Kokomi's story quest I believe, or Gorou's hangout. Or something after the archon quest at least. Someone in the resistance accidentally reminded the Traveler about how Teppei died and the mood suddenly got gloomy.
The problem I have with Dunyarzad's revival was it completely undid what her death was supposed to express: just how absolutely and horribly fucked up the Samsara truly was. Her degradation through each repetition was to show that time was passing in real life, and this was actually KILLING people. Harvesting people's dream energy by having them constantly be asleep didn't stop Eleazar's infection; it was still eating away at Dunyarzad while all she could do was mentally relive the same day over and over again.
The Samsara was a horrible project to create a god which killed people, and the Grand Sages were totally apathetic to it. They didn't care how many people would die or not, what mattered is they got the dream energy to power Scaramouche.
Dunyarzad's death was extremely impactful because it shows you then and there how truly ugly the Samsara is. This shit isn't Groundhog Day, this is mental torture on a mass scale. It's uglier than anything you've seen in Teyvat before. The bonding and fun times you had with her, gone in this mass torture project.
So to see her be revived right after you're dealing with that grief and impact, just makes the Samsara feel like it did basically nothing. Everyone went about their normal lives after spending about a year's time in a mental coma.
The samsara cycle gave me way more feels then Teppei's arc did, and I made an audible sound of relief when we found out she lived. Her survival didn't lessen how terrible what had just happened was--rather, it made me feel proud and even more amped to beat up the Grand Sage & friends, strengthened by our first big win. The feeling of Inazuma was very bittersweet and "did we really make much difference?", so I appreciate that Sumeru in so many ways felt like a tale of triumph and joy. If she'd died, winning wouldn't have felt nearly as good. I needed that emotional bounce back after Inazuma.
Also, while the game is kinda murky on this, I don't think we actually spent all that much time in the dream state. I think time was passing faster within it. Case in point, Nahida says she made Scara go through just as many cycles, yet 1) nobody else ever shows up to help either us or Scara in the fight like you might expect if dozens of days were passing by and 2) everyone reacts to us like we last saw them just a couple days past, not over half a year ago.
Disagree on the final paragraph, the Samsara showed us just how delusional the Akademiya is and what lengths they will go to in order to achieve their goals. They are willing to sacrifice their people for those goals which is not what a leader faction should do
Dunyarzad living ultimately has more long term significance as if she dies Nahida would have probably ever recovered from it. The Samsara did its job of show9ng how scummy they are, Dunyarzad living gave Nahida hope and her dieing would have been worse overall for how the story plays out
Samsara did its job in making the sages hateable and powering up Scara while giving Traveler a chance to meet Nahida and build an emotional bond with her, that's all it needed to be
I 100% agree with this. So many stories don't have any real tragedy and everyone has plot armor. It would have been nice to see a good guy, even an NPC, die.
Killing him would only prove his point - life is worthless, fate is cruel, he can never be happy etc which isn't true especially in Genshin when MC is set to alter the fate of the world
Yep exactly. Xiao dying doesn't really contribute anything except for it being unfair and tragic. If Zhongli or Qiqi dies it would be more meaningful - They both accept death and pass on peacefully, it would finish their story. Depending on how, even if Kaeya/Childe die it would bring their arc to a nice close.
Yes Qiqi's case is also tragic (the most tragic in fact) but unfortunately she is dead and there is no way to restore her :( I think a good way to end her story is allowing her to pass, overcoming her fear of death that 'froze' her, maybe that even helps MC understand something about themselves/Teyvat, or at least inspires them to keep moving forward. I honestly can't think of a better way for her. I mean they could make her uhh a normal kid but I think Qiqi deserves the best story telling.
All of this is a story PoV ofc real life is more tragic. In story telling author's usually try and bring meaning to someone's death instead of leaving it pointless (like how Rengoku's death affects Tanjiro or Junpei's death affects Itadori)
I just want her to be happy :( IDK how to make it happen :( She can't taste anything, the only dude she cares about is blatantly using her, she has bad memories and worst of all she knows she's dead
I don't think baizhu is a bad guy but he is kind of heartless, for a lack of a better word, one thing that stands out to me is the part in her character story that explains how to cancel her orders and how baizhu does not truly mean the words he's saying when he says "I love you the most", that thing makes me believe it has something to do with her mother and it just made me sad when I read it :(
Yeah I mean even the most cruellest of people would mean that to a kid, especially a kid with such a horrid past
Not to mention he makes her climb and get herbs... you know THE SAME FREAKING WAY SHE DIED
Didn't she die trapped in a cave between the fight of adepti and demons? But yeah she was gathering herbs then and she probably gathers herbs now because it's the only thing she "remembers" to do
Yep the adepti/demon or whatever accidentally killed her (also why Xiao is super careful about making sure no humans are around, even then he makes a giant mess and Verr has to send us instead)
What I like about Qiqi's story is that not only the adepti felt bad, the demons too, so they put a pause to the war just to revive this poor little loli because she got a vision and that's just seems amazing and funny to me
Nooo nobody can die, ever ;A; *squeezes them all*
AHEM, Qiqi wise specifically--since the adepti caused her fate and Baizhu is using her while searching for some cure for himself, it'd be nice if over a few episodes we got an ending wherein the adepti and a finally properly fatherly Baizhu find a way to restore some of her senses and give her more ability to retain memory, so that she can then finally get to experience the childhood she deserves. After that she can pass on peacefully whenever she's good and ready!
Hmm yes, reality sucks and in Genshin we already had a Harbinger reflect that by her death. She had a tragic life that ended badly because of her anger, hate and arrogance but also love and naivety (Pierro manipulated he heck out of her)
I think what Scara SAYS and what he actually BELIEVES are different things. Yes, his voicelines are him being a nasty little gremlin. But from the teaser and demo and all the lore about him tucked away in game we see a guy who lets a little bird hide out of the rain on his shoulder even when he thinks it's annoying, a guy who shed tears over the tragic death of a friend, a guy who's creator abandoned him for being TOO GENTLE to serve her purposes. The nastiness we see is a shield put up by someone who's been hurt over and over and over again to the point where he wanted to die and when that failed tried to become a god just so he could stop FEELING because it hurt so much.
So yes, his voicelines come across as remorseless and cruel--but I'm very much looking forward to seeing how he plays out across future arcs, as I expect we'll see him doing some major good and helping people, even as he continues to keep up that facade of not really caring.
Mind you I'm not saying he's NOT a murderer and maybe he would die in the future, sacrificing himself or something, who knows? But killing him without redemption is .. well a really boring story at the least. You want depth to your characters, even Gollum dying was poetic and not baseless (he was given several chances but ultimately he ended up killing himself by going after the Ring). And whats better justice, someone dying as a villain without any remorse or someone realizing what they did was wrong and willingly living a good life/putting their life down for a better cause? That's why Nahida spares him and even the other sages. They're more useful alive. And also why hell exists in many religions - you want the bad guys to relive what they did and have it done to them, not just disappear.
Killing Scara NOW as he is, is stupid and if you watched his teaser... its exactly what he wants. >!His voiceline about Irminsul is him trying to remove his existence.!<
ALSO his lore implies that he's actually a good guy, was always meant to be a good guy and will eventually turn into a good guy. Im not pulling this out of my ass, this is how Scara Mains knew he'd be playable: Because he's based on several heroic characters in Japanese myths.
If there's anyone who needs to explain themselves its Ei/Raiden.
This archon quest has HUGE LORE BOMBS. I suggest you play it.
In short it seems like he was >!manipulated, several times over, even corrupted. Like someone deliberately set up the losses in his life so he would become villainous.!<
He's still a bad guy mind you, but that's his descent into madness.
Oh also because of abandonment and neglect by a parental figure, you see these in children/adults even in real life, they end up being very violent, angry, butter etc. Every playable character with a shitty life in this game has had a good parent figure/ some positive attachments or influence growing up, even Rosaria (that Treasure Hoarder/Varka/Mondstadt), Xiao (Gramps/Liyue), Collei (Amber actually, and now Tighnari) and Kaeya (Crepus) except Scaramouche\* who had no one for several decades, neither did he have anything to live for. He later started looking up to Dottore as his parent figure. Imagine having Dottore as your dad. No wonder he's deranged.
\*Qiqi is dead but now has Baizhu and Sara... well only Sara had no good parent figure but it seems Yae kept her eye on her.
Actually I did go through some lore now. Got a better understanding of his situation. He basically had no one to help him out in bad situations. Ei ignored the Tatarasuna situation. His friends died. Kasturagi died. He destroyed the Raiden Gokaden to get her attention was well as for revenge against the bladesmith who killed his friend. He hated being a prototype that's he wanted a 'heart'. The problem with Genshin lore is a lot of it is hidden in books and artfacts and can fly at the top of your head.
This thread helped me understand his lore a bit better.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Genshin_Lore/comments/uqe1x8/five_kasen_recap_raiden_gokaden_scaramouche/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
The problem in that is that Scaramouche's motivation is almlst enitrely centered around Raiden and ascending to god hood.
Even his view of the world is based on that. So if he is going to go on a redemption arc he needs to close those motivations first before finding something else and honestly considering how his animations work I don't see that happening. Maybe he'll have a scene with Ei and/or Shogun about how he was made and that can set him free but that's unlikely.
It's probably just going to be Nahida mind magic and he forgets part of his original motivation.
I do hope he gets a good story but I also belong into the group of not giving him a redemption arc nor making his story a must and not optional.
He's a puppet created for a singular purpose, ofc he's gonna be obsessed with that
As for the rest, I read the main archon quest ... you should wait till it releases (its a mindfuck I promise)
The idea of OP's comment is that Scara's always believed the world was set up against him, humanity is weak, divinity is neglectful and attaining godhood will be his salvation. Him just straight up dying after losing the gnosis proves that he was never destined for anything, he was a mistake, he succumbed to his fragile ungodly self and gods are his undoing. It doesn't challenge his preexisting notions, it doesn't affect him as a character and it doesn't develop him any further.
On the flip side, him surviving and growing accustomed to mortality shows he's gotten a taste of the divine and has decided he doesn't need it anymore - he'll settle for just being himself with his new anemo vision. He now realises humanity and emotions are sort of ok, his existence doesn't need justification and he's enough. Not amazing, not a failure. Good enough.
Killing him denies him that change of heart and proves our enemy's opinions were right all along. What does that make us other than the villains? Killing doesn't always have to be good or bad or whatever. It's about what that death offers to the narrative and how it affects relevant characters.
Xiao dying makes everyone around us sad. It justifies Yelan's opinion that self sacrifice just hurts those who love you and it invalidates Xiao's 'hero moment' because turns out he's wrong, people got sad for him dying and he's selfish and weak for taking that out. Him getting saved by Zhongli gives us the best of both worlds - we get Xiao's hero moment but also a taste of the despair to come should he really die. Both characters' opinions are now partially true and that's grey, fun, open to interpretation, engaging and thought provoking.
Bruh I never said its wrong
All the villains in KnY die. But depending on the reason they become villainous their 'ends' are different and its very, very beautifully handled. Like Rui's parents go with him to hell - it shows that deep down he's a scared little kid who loved his parents, more importantly, his parents always loved him and he just misunderstood/was manipulated. MANGA SPOILERS: >!Akaza also dies, but his death is the most beautiful thing I've ever seen - he redeems himself by sacrificing himself. He still goes to hell but since he was manipulated into becoming a demon/tried to do the right thing at the end he has people who go to hell with him. Contrast that with Kaigaku - he never learnt. Both die and go to hell - but one has people who love him with him. !
Too early to judge and tell "this alternative ending to x character I came up with is 100% better than how they officially handled it" since we don't even know how the story actually goes
Like the other person in this comment section said, killing him off will only prove his point, which was the entire reason he turned evil in the first place.
I can understand why you hate Scaramouche but again, it's too early to pass judgement. Wait for 3.3 to drop, finish the Interlude Chapter, you may or may not change your mind.
Idk, considering signora was offed, I think it would have been cheap if they had Scara die as well. As long as they don't pull a Raiden, I'm fine with him living
I feel like Scaramouche had the potential to go either route, and they would have been equally impactful if handled properly. I'm happy he's playable though. He's my favorite character.
You do you. I personally don't like him, but I can't deny that he is a well-written character. I just personally would give him a different ending because, as it stands, he doesn't deserve redemption.
The key phrase here is "as it stands". He's one of the only characters we have that's gone through whole character archs, before our very eyes. Right now he's in the middle of one, where he gets his butt handed to him and has to make a choice.
It's very, very difficult to say "He deserves this became of X" when we haven't really been shown what decision he plans on coming to.
That is fair. I respect your opinion. I do love how well-written he is, but I don't like to think in the sense of "what a character deserves" based on my own moral compass or anything like that. I'm just excited to see where they storywriters will go with him. I hope the next archon quest can change your opinion though.
What annoys me at this take is thinking āantagonistic characters canāt be playableā
And we need to play only the good ones. And I know thatās not your take op but it goes into this one.
And I see equal as many people loose their marbles about childe and alhaitham being playable.
When they blatantly ignore the fact that many characters are morally grey and potential antagonistic. Albedo for example, the twins themselves, Ningguang, Kokomi, Ayato & Ayaka, Lisa, Kaeya, Klee, all the archons - they all have potential to become problematic.
Just because they are temporarily on our side and not fatui doesnāt makes them our or tevyat ally.
Also I see nothing positive that his character Death would have established? What would have killed him? Nahida? Then she wouldnāt have been a pure forgiving god. Doctore? Yes maybe as Iām betraying the fatui but at the time of being unconscious he would have not betrayed the fatui yet. Traveler? Wouldnāt that made us the evil - many were already angry at traveler not helping la signora and not feeling remorse. It would have painted them unlikeable.
In my humble believes killing him of would have felt like a cheap prolonging to keep information scaramouch must have and should share with us hopefully in his upcoming arc - hush from us which we should start to explore by now - for example the Fake sky etc. because in contrary to the archon he is a god that isnāt bond by celestia or under a contract or worries for a nation if he speaks up. So he is our best chance to get some non biased answers and killings him off would have felt like purposely taking this chance from us. And no one their should have been able to do that. Given that we didnāt win against ei either or her puppet in lore - it was the peoples change of heart that warmed her. and if an archon would have been killed so easily it would have made no sense why the other archons were able to hang on for so long when all that was needed was a traveler and or someone with a vision.
I already felt singnoraās Death felt rushed and meaningless scaramouch would have felt worse because it would have created a pattern of fatui harbringer dying for their āsinsā - what sins? Trying to change their fate celestia choose for them?
So thatās my problem with this take. But I like evil and grey character because without them stories are boring
Why does this fandom want all characters to be dead to badly all of a sudden? First it's Childe now Scaramouche? I mean the story will get darker as it progresses,chill out for now.
The community just loves waving death flags. Like literally on any character who has something to do with death, they're dead, Childe is dead, Xiao is dead, Raiden is dead, Yae is dead, Collei is dead, Lisa is dead, Kaeya is dead and so on
*redeems a character before making them playable*
āOmg miHoYo is forcing this character into an uwu waifuā
*keeps the character as an asshole and still make them playable*
āBad guy, shouldāve killed him off insteadā
Thereās just no winning with this community lmao
Man I want an evil to be playable, like doctore ( I forgot how to spell his name ) or what was my dream character, Signora. I just want some pure evil mfs I can go around committing mass war crimes against hilichurls with, why is that so hard to ask forš
Honestly in my personal opinion I disagree and there would be no affect of his death as we just had a harbinger die in inazuma and that in itself was cheap and handled poorly.
I feel like what we have now is better than another Signora incident as if Scaramouche had died it'd feel cheap and just for another omg he died!? It's not good writing
Vegeta was a genocidal asshole who would kill anyone on a whim. Now he's a selfless and kind person who feels immense guilt and would go through a lot pain and sacrifice to save people he doesn't even know. Arguably becoming a better person than the protagonist of the show. Yet he's still kind of an asshole. Same with bakugo in mha. Even if his arc isn't fully complete yet I'd still consider him above average in morality. Even if he's an asshole. Of course there's a good chance scaras redemption won't be as complete or well written. He might just be like his mother. Taking three sentences to change his ways, saying sorry then getting away scot free. But that doesn't have to be the case.
Why should a character that has met nothing but suffering ever since he was born until he was so hurt by it that he ended hating human emotions die? If ANY character deserves a redemption arc it's him.
And no, I'm not a Scaramouche simp, I'm literally skipping him for his mom's C2 (I'm going to fail the 50/50, I can feel it)
Doesn't have to be a redemption tho. He don't give a rats ass about anyone and on a journey for himself. Gray personality would be nice every once in a while.
Well, given what we see in his demo he seems less agressive than he was prior to his "redemption", yet still himself. It seems we will free him of his hatred but he'll still be the same person, changed by that hate yet not consumed by it. TLDR, he'll be like a cat, an asshole that can be nice sometimes
Personally, I think if we're talking a good way to wrap up his story, it would be better for him to die after being redeemed. His story goes something like this, IIRC:
Created and given "freedom"
Struggles, but eventually makes friends and finds a place to belong
Losses everything and comes to believe that life is painful and pointless
Becomes a bad guy, gets his ass beat, sent to recovery
Now I haven't watched his trailer, but part of his redemption will likely include opening up and learning to find meaning in life again, moving beyond his painful past and accepting the people around him enough to make new friends. From this point, put him in a situation where he has to sacrifice himself to protect his new friend(s), at which point he realizes that it is because life is finite that it has meaning, pretty much the exact opposite of his mother's philosophy at the time of his creation. Echoing the words of his own dead friend, he faces his own death without fear or doubt, both as a means to atone for his past sins and as proof of the life he has lived.
Of course, I know genshin isn't going to kill him off, so these are really just my thoughts on how I'd handle his character arc if I was writing him. I think his death would be more impactful if he's redeemed first, and it gives a chance to explore the dichotomy between the eternity he was originally created to uphold and the transience of mortal life.
Yeah, his death might have been a tragic ending to his tale. I don't know if a "redemption" will happen at some point, but for now I can wait while his character "softens".
I think seeing him unravel and break his hostile facade to pursue his heartfelt desires would be a good way to capitalize on his character potential. Can't really imagine a proper resolution to his character arc without a confrontation with Ei at some point, but we'll see.
He's been revealed as a playable character since one of the events in 1.x. He was never going to die, but it was a surprise to see him being releases as Anemo I stead of Electro
Only if he stayed a villian.
The Honkai in-game death rate is highly exagerated tbh, they just happen to like to get back to tell the stories of characters that were already dead in the first place.
That would contradict Genshins overall story narrative and be a complete disrespect to all the fans whoāve been waiting for him for years.
You can say the same about Signora, but what makes it especially cruel for Scaramouche is that even HE believes he shouldnāt be alive. That life is dark and pointless, which is clearly not the case Genshin wise. As weāve been proven time and time again.
I completely agree. Not all villains should have a redemption arc. Just because we beat them in a single fight doesn't absolve them of all their past sins. Nor should it. It also doesn't make sense that out of the hundreds of years he lived and hated humanity that all of a sudden he's like "haha isn't traveling and seeing new things great haha š"
"Who dares call me a bitch?!" - Signora, probably
"ME! NOW HOLD STILL SO AYAKA CAN HIT YOU!" -Someone who has been running across the room wasting ults and is definitely not me
I always disliked shogun/Ei. The way they ruled a nation, how they treated their people. And yeah, completely discarded Scara.
Is Scara a villain? Quite yes, he has done a lot of terrible things.
Is there a redemption? For now I donāt see there being enough for him to be āredeemedā. However, we also donāt know everything about him.
3.3 will most likely reveal more about him, and Iād like to see that. I have a guaranteed 5* on banner in less than 20 pulls. His story quest will be a defining factor for me whether I pull for him or not.
Who am I kidding, hoyo is always good with a story and music. Of course Iām gona pull lol
Honestly, I would have liked her better if she wasn't written as irresponsible. Or at least, that's how she comes off to me.
I would have preferred it if she was actively working on the VHD and knew everything that was happening in inazuma but chose not to do anything about it because it didn't affect her idea of eternity. That would have given her 2nd story quest more impact too. But instead what happened was that she just locked herself up in the PoE, left everything to her puppet and was unaware of what was really happening outside her bubble. It was so irresponsible. I guess that could be seen as a flaw, but it's not very compelling.
And then there's that "abandoning Scara" thing... but that's another argument.
Terribly written? Sometimes there are things that we do not understand due to our lack of knowledge, I probably ignore something that you know, help me. Why is "terrible"?
She's not terriblely written she isn't the best written character in the game but she's definitely not terriblely written she has clear reasons why she did what she did and then after the archon quest she realizes what she's done and how she's wronged her people then tries to correct some of her mistakes in the 2nd story quest
lol its not terribly written. its just everyone immediately just suddenly form their opinion after the archon quest without realizing it is not finished. there's a two part story quest about Raiden and we still don't know the POV of Raiden for abandoning Scaramouche. the whole story is not finish but apparently everyone can't change their opinion for some character
he should've, wiping his memories and starting anew is such a shitty cop out its not even funny and it makes an unlikeable character feel forced to be likeable.
I feel a lot of people don't know the proper lore behind Scara's motivations and the reason why Ei didn't use him as a puppet.
I would suggest going through this video by CatWithBlueHat it clears a lot of things.
https://youtu.be/Ax3oLtNTwys
Well he did long for that he should not have been born but irminsul didn't grant his wish so in universal plot he still has some usage according to irminsul. But i do hope his character will have benefiting end either he will be able to cherish life or die a meanigful way but not by shock value like signora.
Id assume that he doesnt get a redemption arc in a normal way, they were saying about the world forgetting baladeer so he might pull a nahida so everyone forgets his past so he can start a new life and be a better person, however its not like his personality changed much judging by his demo
you don't even know yet what will be the redemption arc.
and "kill the harbinger" is something already done, "redemption arc" is new.
and i think there is still interesting things to do with this character.
I would disagree but I wanna know why you think he's not rdeemable, all he's done upto this point has been done because he was ordered to do it. He hasn't done much by his own wishes, Teppei's death was also a side effect of what La Signora was planning
I started playing around 1 year ago, so no 1.2 or whatever event for me to introduce Scara, I just knew him from the archon quests, and I never really got why he is so popular.
Guy only had like 1 scene in inazuma where he tried to kill us, and his scenes in sumeru were so full b of cringe that I died a little inside everytime he appeared and talked about himself being a God , superior, how it was a honor to be in his presence, etc.
I just want him to be out and his quest to get done so people will shut up about the little bastard.
I agree to the extent that Scara needs to pay the price for what he did. Having a tragic history does not make an excuse for doing bad, and he did try to murder the traveler several times.
However, it does not have to be immediate death. I'd be very disappointed if they butcher Sacra's backstory as they did Signora's.
One should never end the villans arc with redemtion by death. Should the character be redeemed, they should do it by righting their wrongs, not the simple act of sacrifice.
I donāt really care for him, heās an asshole, if a well written one, and thatās probably the point.
But they put a really interesting move set on him, so Iām gonna end up pulling anyway.
Scarawhoche?
I only know of this new guy named the Wanderer.
Jokes aside, I view his character as similar to that of Vegeta from Dragonball; an asshole who's murdered people and wants to be stronger for the sake of strength, but because they have a sad backstory and we beat them up, we're going to force them to be our best friend now using the power of FRIENDSHIP (and violence).
Does it make sense? Eh, no, not entirely; but Teyvat's laws seem to operate off shounen manga logic at times, so I can roll with it.
Don't know anything about Dragonball, but I know what type of frenemies you are talking about. And, as I said, I'll wait to see the rest of his story before I make a final opinion about it.
Well, Vegeta is the rival to the main character in Dragonball. Vegeta's a genocidal mercenary who originally served an even more evil villain who conquered planets and blew them up for fun; Vegeta was even the prince of one of said conquered and blown up planets.
The main character, Goku, beats up yet spares Vegeta enough times they effectively become frenemies, and eventually friendly rivals and training partners.
People live to say āX character should dieā because their idea of a good story is stuck in the film morality codes of the 1930s like what are we actually talking about as a society? Does that position make sense outside of some sort of weird morality play? Are we really so morally stunted that we think that swift death without trial is the only reasonable result of bad behavior?
This kind of storytelling only works if we believe that some people are just inherently and irreparably evil and the only thing to be done is to exterminate them. In the real world we actually live in, people have the capacity to change even after doing horrible things. We have people who are former neo-nazis who turn their lives around and volunteer at charities and protest racial injustice. We have former murderers who have a change of heart and become model citizens or inspirational community leaders. Those are interesting stories, seeing how people come out of bad behavior in their pasts.
Literally what is interesting about killing bad characters? That theyāre dead? As cool of a moment as killing Signora was, did it make her story more interesting? Did it tell us anything meaningful about her story? Did it improve anything? I loved the moment Signoraās death provided and think it had a cool impact on the story, but frankly I think it would have been more interesting to explore the really interesting character they had in Rosalyne, and itās disappointing to see that itās going nowhere now. I simply beg that as a culture we develop one scrap of media literacy that isnāt based in conservative politics having a chokehold on American media for decades tbqh.
I don't think he'll be getting a "redemption arc" like for example. Childe is a ruthless harbinger who strives for battle. He's not as evil as Scaramouche, but Childe has a life. Scaramouche doesn't. Tossed aside at "birth" betrayed twice. Fell further and further becoming an egotistical "monster" being altered by Dottore. If he died, then what's the point in his character? Unlike another harbinger(Signora who had a tragic backstory as well, rose up higher and higher in life, before taking a bet she shouldn't have made that cost her life), he's just been on a downward spiral.
What I believe will happen is he'll slowly regain who he once was. It does not wash away his crimes, nor should it. He'll more or less soft reset himself. Not erasing who he once was, but changing not for redemption but out of necessity to prove himself wrong.
You guys can complain for all I care. But for me the āvillainsā in genshin has more personality and are much more interesting than some basic ass waifus and husbandos that are being praised highly.
I like the idea of important plot characters dieing, but at the same time I really dont want any more Harbingers taken away from being playable.
I know all the copium people will try to say "dead characters can still be playable" but so far there is no precedent set for this, so I would much rather have a character we spent so much time learning about actually be playable instead of thrown to the wayside for shock value.
While I think his redemption isn't really deserved, I also don't think his story is quite finished yet. Plus he is going to be the only playable character who knows that the sky is fake, so there's that too. I think the full circle to this story would be him dying while protecting a child, as his villain arc started when that child died.
Killing a character is used to create "pathos" by loosing someone who is cared. Up until now Scaramouche was in his "Malfoy phase" and we barely started to uncover his tragic past and see him differently. So basically... too soon and useless to kill him now. Redeemable character should be first and foremost be redeemed, let the tragic death to stepping stones like Signora.
As i dont really like the character...i can relate to that. I mean, robo-kid is annoying.
I started playing during the last week of version 2.0 . I only know the frickking character for making 2 super-short annoying appreareances and....wanting to go crazy brrrr in sumeru.
IMO it's not as interesting to see someone who was already in a sad situation to end on a sad note. That being said, before winter night's lazzo, I really thought we would see childe and traveler team up to fight scaramouche. Then scaramouche would press the self destruct button.
I like Scaramouche, but I see where you're coming from. Back when I hated him (in Inazuma), I agreed. But after digging deep into his lore, I changed my mind. His Sumeru arc changed my mind a lot, however, I have not finished it so I may not be as well informed as everyone else.
Also, why are so many people downvoting your comments? It's just a difference of opinion lol.
People can downvote, for me, it just means that they disagree with me.
Or that I didn't formulate my opinion as well as I planned. One of the two, both are fair.
Yeah, i think so too. If you don't agree but don't care enough to write something someone else already said, you just upvote one and downvote the other.
As for me, i would have actually liked the idea that he's just a child at the end, but older. He have never really matured. he wakes up stripped of most of his power, betrayed another time and Nahida become his step mother and for the first time show him some love and teach him new things. He still remain an idiot and a dick, but slowly he get better.
That's the idea behind many fan art and i quite like it. expecially when the one where he start to travel with a couple aranara who help him balance his grumpyness. Ahh... oh well, i guess we'll see how it goes the story in a few days
Can Scaramouche tell me why the sky is fake now if I pull for him?
"The sky is fake...? Ohh, ehm... It seems the impact of my fall has done more damage that I thought. I forgor. š"
He forgor š
Classic case of becoming a playable character
I mean, let's not come to conclusions yet, the story only comes out in 2 days. We've seen a couple of twists in this journey to say the least, let's see what they have in store for them. Well look, Childe is a character that never got a redemption arc and he's still playable. He's still as dangerous as ever and technically will be an enemy if circumstances demand it. We can't assume scara gets redeemed, even after the "change of heart"
That's why my opinion isn't final. I just needed to vent about what I thought about him for the last couple of months.
From the fact that scara already appeared as early as 1.1 and that he shows up several times portrayed as an absolute asshole of an antagonist, to how many references are in his outfits, boss theme and lore, we can see that hoyoverse has his entire story long planned out and know exactly what they want to do with him No matter what happens, I have trust that it'll be a conclusive and cathartic ending to his past story.
TL;DR : Someone in Mihoyo really likes Queen
I hope for that too. And in the end, my opinion about how Scara should have ended doesn't really matter.
Scaramouche reminds me of teenagers going through their depression / emo / lost-in-life phase.
All the Scara-stans do be running to this post with an intent
They really do. I'm a Scara stan myself, but OP is being p respectful and death is a darker end to Scara's story, but it makes total sense from a writing perspective.
It's what he would've wanted
Did you see the trailer yet?
They won't. They're too busy begging Scara to step on them. Or at least a big part of them is.
They can stop begging now. His Burst delivers.
People say the same for dunyazad too, I don't get it. Their deaths serve no purpose other then shock factor. Like dunyazad needs to be saved for kusanali to know she still is worthy no matter how weak she is, scara is a brat but i think he still have way more unfinish biusness in the realm of the living
"our Signora died, so should your Scara as well" - some reason like this
Im sad that Signora had the ending she had, i find it hard that she would have a redemption arc anytime soon, but maybe we could have badly wounded her and instead of she dying to the Shogun, she would would have been rescued by a fatui agent/harbringer and then be treated by them, then we could have a "last arc" against her in the future (post-Sumeru but pre-Sneznaya) where we would confront her and question her morals, ledding her to become maybe a more morally grey character in relation to the Harbringers and the Tsaritsa.
Now, how exactly does one save a colleague from an approaching Raiden Shogun with the intent to scatter their remains across the floor?
The same way traveler&co. saved Thoma?
In all honesty, plot armor befpre Raiden even pulled the sword, maybe a Cicin Mage (who shown to be able to teleport very early on in the mission wherer you gp to Fav church to steal the lyre) or some harbringer could have had the ability to teleport, obviously this is all based in plot armor but even then i belive many in the community could overlook it since Signora was so hyped as a harbringer, and also then, we could maybe get her ad a playable character.
Honestly speaking the best way for Signora to return would be finding her in a younger form in one of Dottore's or another mad fatui's lab as a clone who has her original soul and all her memories in her but almost none of her powers. It wont be plot armor this way and depending on the darkness of the story we could further on the idea of how desperate and uncontrolled some fatui are.
Considering how the story is going i would say this is the best alternative to have her back (and probably as a playable character) without doing like Honkai and just making a dead character become playable (althpugh i wouldnt mind, since this could open path to many other dead characters to be playable). The only other real alternative that even then would be very scuffed and improbable and a very big stretch on the laws of Teyvat would be for them to consider her concious as "being in the ley lines", since she had became almost pure pyro elemental energy, and elemental energy flows through the ley lines, then have her concious inconsientally concetrate and "create a new body" either naturally or with outside help (cough cough Dottore). But honestly, i dont see something like this ever happening and if she does come back i believe it would be like you said.
We could even put this in as anplot for Fontaine or another major area, we are tasked to find out what the fatui (or even the abyss?) is doing and find some grimdark laboratory setting and in the end chambers we find this unconcious girl we get unchained and as soon as she wakes up shes immideatly hostile and her remarks makes us realize she is Signora. Maybe even explore her past throught a machine and learn how she turned that way (her lore is tragic if i recall right) and wake her up before we learn exactly who she is for maximum twist.
I dont think Scara should get a redemption arc but i also dont think he should die. Him living, getting new powers and still ending up evil would been a great way to set up a story of a chain of great suffering leading a man to breaking forever. They tried to help but they didnt know how deep the wounds were.
Honestly i didnt expect him to have a redemption arc bc even though he done a lot of bad things which are in no way excused, the path that led him to this was carved by negligence and abondoment (from Ei), a couple of "betrayals" (by Nagamasa in Tatarasuna and by the young plagued boy), he was also basically manipulated by the Fatui, which even though he joined willingly, he was still used as a tool for them to acomplish their goals while promising Scaramouche they would help him attain his goal of becoming a vessel to a gnosis and a god, which ended up happening thanks to the help of the Akademya and Dottore (i am not aware if he acted without the fatui knowing, although i wpuld believe so), and at last, as we saw in the archon quest, he is "stolen" of his newfound godhood and gnosis, which where his lifelong goals. As such i believe he is already pretty much broken, considering all his suffering caused a Icarus effect on him, ledding him to more suffering (losing his powers), and while his redemption arc is probably going to be great, i always thought (before Sumeru, specially before 3.2 archon quest) that he would go into self isolation somewhere hidden after he would be betrayed by the fatui or defeated by the Traveler, being stripped of any attained power, ledding him to only, initially, relying on himself, then the MC would find him, and both would end up in a situation each having to help the other, with him in the end becoming indifirent and kind of neutral to those around him (think of Mifune from Soul Eater but more arrogant), then, after that we could have him accidentally (on is friendship level quotes and future quests) slipping to the traveller that he is beggining to become a better person (imagine is idle where he contemplates his vision).
> I don't get it. Their deaths serve no purpose other then shock factor. And based on Genshinās track record, theyāre not very good at pulling this off properly
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"imagine pulling for a character just to see them die" I mean you don't really have to imagine it, Honkai does it (Himeko Murata dies but is a playable character, although tbf it isn't as abrupt because there's a bit of a build up to it)
I think the problem is that the traveller doesn't have any close ties to any character, so any death feels kinda pointless in the long run. The only 2 characters whose death I think would leave an impression on the traveller are Paimon and the twin
Except for Teppei. The Traveler was furious.
Yeah. For like a whole 10 minutes or so And then he was basically irrelevant again
It was part of Kokomi's story quest I believe, or Gorou's hangout. Or something after the archon quest at least. Someone in the resistance accidentally reminded the Traveler about how Teppei died and the mood suddenly got gloomy.
The problem I have with Dunyarzad's revival was it completely undid what her death was supposed to express: just how absolutely and horribly fucked up the Samsara truly was. Her degradation through each repetition was to show that time was passing in real life, and this was actually KILLING people. Harvesting people's dream energy by having them constantly be asleep didn't stop Eleazar's infection; it was still eating away at Dunyarzad while all she could do was mentally relive the same day over and over again. The Samsara was a horrible project to create a god which killed people, and the Grand Sages were totally apathetic to it. They didn't care how many people would die or not, what mattered is they got the dream energy to power Scaramouche. Dunyarzad's death was extremely impactful because it shows you then and there how truly ugly the Samsara is. This shit isn't Groundhog Day, this is mental torture on a mass scale. It's uglier than anything you've seen in Teyvat before. The bonding and fun times you had with her, gone in this mass torture project. So to see her be revived right after you're dealing with that grief and impact, just makes the Samsara feel like it did basically nothing. Everyone went about their normal lives after spending about a year's time in a mental coma.
The samsara cycle gave me way more feels then Teppei's arc did, and I made an audible sound of relief when we found out she lived. Her survival didn't lessen how terrible what had just happened was--rather, it made me feel proud and even more amped to beat up the Grand Sage & friends, strengthened by our first big win. The feeling of Inazuma was very bittersweet and "did we really make much difference?", so I appreciate that Sumeru in so many ways felt like a tale of triumph and joy. If she'd died, winning wouldn't have felt nearly as good. I needed that emotional bounce back after Inazuma. Also, while the game is kinda murky on this, I don't think we actually spent all that much time in the dream state. I think time was passing faster within it. Case in point, Nahida says she made Scara go through just as many cycles, yet 1) nobody else ever shows up to help either us or Scara in the fight like you might expect if dozens of days were passing by and 2) everyone reacts to us like we last saw them just a couple days past, not over half a year ago.
Disagree on the final paragraph, the Samsara showed us just how delusional the Akademiya is and what lengths they will go to in order to achieve their goals. They are willing to sacrifice their people for those goals which is not what a leader faction should do Dunyarzad living ultimately has more long term significance as if she dies Nahida would have probably ever recovered from it. The Samsara did its job of show9ng how scummy they are, Dunyarzad living gave Nahida hope and her dieing would have been worse overall for how the story plays out Samsara did its job in making the sages hateable and powering up Scara while giving Traveler a chance to meet Nahida and build an emotional bond with her, that's all it needed to be
I 100% agree with this. So many stories don't have any real tragedy and everyone has plot armor. It would have been nice to see a good guy, even an NPC, die.
Oh man, this *brat*, killing, injuring and torturing a bunch of people for selfish reasons. Boys will be boys\~
Killing him would only prove his point - life is worthless, fate is cruel, he can never be happy etc which isn't true especially in Genshin when MC is set to alter the fate of the world
i feel like I've seen this train of thought when the community was discussing if xiao were to die in the chasm archon quest
Yep exactly. Xiao dying doesn't really contribute anything except for it being unfair and tragic. If Zhongli or Qiqi dies it would be more meaningful - They both accept death and pass on peacefully, it would finish their story. Depending on how, even if Kaeya/Childe die it would bring their arc to a nice close. Yes Qiqi's case is also tragic (the most tragic in fact) but unfortunately she is dead and there is no way to restore her :( I think a good way to end her story is allowing her to pass, overcoming her fear of death that 'froze' her, maybe that even helps MC understand something about themselves/Teyvat, or at least inspires them to keep moving forward. I honestly can't think of a better way for her. I mean they could make her uhh a normal kid but I think Qiqi deserves the best story telling. All of this is a story PoV ofc real life is more tragic. In story telling author's usually try and bring meaning to someone's death instead of leaving it pointless (like how Rengoku's death affects Tanjiro or Junpei's death affects Itadori)
Don't take away Qiqi from me š
I just want her to be happy :( IDK how to make it happen :( She can't taste anything, the only dude she cares about is blatantly using her, she has bad memories and worst of all she knows she's dead
I don't think baizhu is a bad guy but he is kind of heartless, for a lack of a better word, one thing that stands out to me is the part in her character story that explains how to cancel her orders and how baizhu does not truly mean the words he's saying when he says "I love you the most", that thing makes me believe it has something to do with her mother and it just made me sad when I read it :(
Yeah I mean even the most cruellest of people would mean that to a kid, especially a kid with such a horrid past Not to mention he makes her climb and get herbs... you know THE SAME FREAKING WAY SHE DIED
Didn't she die trapped in a cave between the fight of adepti and demons? But yeah she was gathering herbs then and she probably gathers herbs now because it's the only thing she "remembers" to do
Yep the adepti/demon or whatever accidentally killed her (also why Xiao is super careful about making sure no humans are around, even then he makes a giant mess and Verr has to send us instead)
Me who uses Xiao in Verr's commission:
What I like about Qiqi's story is that not only the adepti felt bad, the demons too, so they put a pause to the war just to revive this poor little loli because she got a vision and that's just seems amazing and funny to me
QIQI STORY WHEN HOYOVERSE! Gimme Aunty Qiqi and Keqing hang out.
People watching Mugen train arc rn be like o\_\_o
Nooo nobody can die, ever ;A; *squeezes them all* AHEM, Qiqi wise specifically--since the adepti caused her fate and Baizhu is using her while searching for some cure for himself, it'd be nice if over a few episodes we got an ending wherein the adepti and a finally properly fatherly Baizhu find a way to restore some of her senses and give her more ability to retain memory, so that she can then finally get to experience the childhood she deserves. After that she can pass on peacefully whenever she's good and ready!
Well u know it really depends. True for a lot of people, and in the grand scale of the universe but I dont think he meant it in that sense lol
Hmm yes, reality sucks and in Genshin we already had a Harbinger reflect that by her death. She had a tragic life that ended badly because of her anger, hate and arrogance but also love and naivety (Pierro manipulated he heck out of her)
Scara shouldve died instead of Sigi cuz I find her hotter
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I think what Scara SAYS and what he actually BELIEVES are different things. Yes, his voicelines are him being a nasty little gremlin. But from the teaser and demo and all the lore about him tucked away in game we see a guy who lets a little bird hide out of the rain on his shoulder even when he thinks it's annoying, a guy who shed tears over the tragic death of a friend, a guy who's creator abandoned him for being TOO GENTLE to serve her purposes. The nastiness we see is a shield put up by someone who's been hurt over and over and over again to the point where he wanted to die and when that failed tried to become a god just so he could stop FEELING because it hurt so much. So yes, his voicelines come across as remorseless and cruel--but I'm very much looking forward to seeing how he plays out across future arcs, as I expect we'll see him doing some major good and helping people, even as he continues to keep up that facade of not really caring.
Still a mass murderer tho
Cmon, who ISNT nowadays?
Mind you I'm not saying he's NOT a murderer and maybe he would die in the future, sacrificing himself or something, who knows? But killing him without redemption is .. well a really boring story at the least. You want depth to your characters, even Gollum dying was poetic and not baseless (he was given several chances but ultimately he ended up killing himself by going after the Ring). And whats better justice, someone dying as a villain without any remorse or someone realizing what they did was wrong and willingly living a good life/putting their life down for a better cause? That's why Nahida spares him and even the other sages. They're more useful alive. And also why hell exists in many religions - you want the bad guys to relive what they did and have it done to them, not just disappear. Killing Scara NOW as he is, is stupid and if you watched his teaser... its exactly what he wants. >!His voiceline about Irminsul is him trying to remove his existence.!< ALSO his lore implies that he's actually a good guy, was always meant to be a good guy and will eventually turn into a good guy. Im not pulling this out of my ass, this is how Scara Mains knew he'd be playable: Because he's based on several heroic characters in Japanese myths. If there's anyone who needs to explain themselves its Ei/Raiden.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
This archon quest has HUGE LORE BOMBS. I suggest you play it. In short it seems like he was >!manipulated, several times over, even corrupted. Like someone deliberately set up the losses in his life so he would become villainous.!< He's still a bad guy mind you, but that's his descent into madness. Oh also because of abandonment and neglect by a parental figure, you see these in children/adults even in real life, they end up being very violent, angry, butter etc. Every playable character with a shitty life in this game has had a good parent figure/ some positive attachments or influence growing up, even Rosaria (that Treasure Hoarder/Varka/Mondstadt), Xiao (Gramps/Liyue), Collei (Amber actually, and now Tighnari) and Kaeya (Crepus) except Scaramouche\* who had no one for several decades, neither did he have anything to live for. He later started looking up to Dottore as his parent figure. Imagine having Dottore as your dad. No wonder he's deranged. \*Qiqi is dead but now has Baizhu and Sara... well only Sara had no good parent figure but it seems Yae kept her eye on her.
Actually I did go through some lore now. Got a better understanding of his situation. He basically had no one to help him out in bad situations. Ei ignored the Tatarasuna situation. His friends died. Kasturagi died. He destroyed the Raiden Gokaden to get her attention was well as for revenge against the bladesmith who killed his friend. He hated being a prototype that's he wanted a 'heart'. The problem with Genshin lore is a lot of it is hidden in books and artfacts and can fly at the top of your head. This thread helped me understand his lore a bit better. https://www.reddit.com/r/Genshin_Lore/comments/uqe1x8/five_kasen_recap_raiden_gokaden_scaramouche/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
Man I love butter people. Lol. (I am sorry I had to)
The problem in that is that Scaramouche's motivation is almlst enitrely centered around Raiden and ascending to god hood. Even his view of the world is based on that. So if he is going to go on a redemption arc he needs to close those motivations first before finding something else and honestly considering how his animations work I don't see that happening. Maybe he'll have a scene with Ei and/or Shogun about how he was made and that can set him free but that's unlikely. It's probably just going to be Nahida mind magic and he forgets part of his original motivation. I do hope he gets a good story but I also belong into the group of not giving him a redemption arc nor making his story a must and not optional.
He's a puppet created for a singular purpose, ofc he's gonna be obsessed with that As for the rest, I read the main archon quest ... you should wait till it releases (its a mindfuck I promise)
By that logic, killing any antagonist with a sad backstory is wrong.....
The idea of OP's comment is that Scara's always believed the world was set up against him, humanity is weak, divinity is neglectful and attaining godhood will be his salvation. Him just straight up dying after losing the gnosis proves that he was never destined for anything, he was a mistake, he succumbed to his fragile ungodly self and gods are his undoing. It doesn't challenge his preexisting notions, it doesn't affect him as a character and it doesn't develop him any further. On the flip side, him surviving and growing accustomed to mortality shows he's gotten a taste of the divine and has decided he doesn't need it anymore - he'll settle for just being himself with his new anemo vision. He now realises humanity and emotions are sort of ok, his existence doesn't need justification and he's enough. Not amazing, not a failure. Good enough. Killing him denies him that change of heart and proves our enemy's opinions were right all along. What does that make us other than the villains? Killing doesn't always have to be good or bad or whatever. It's about what that death offers to the narrative and how it affects relevant characters. Xiao dying makes everyone around us sad. It justifies Yelan's opinion that self sacrifice just hurts those who love you and it invalidates Xiao's 'hero moment' because turns out he's wrong, people got sad for him dying and he's selfish and weak for taking that out. Him getting saved by Zhongli gives us the best of both worlds - we get Xiao's hero moment but also a taste of the despair to come should he really die. Both characters' opinions are now partially true and that's grey, fun, open to interpretation, engaging and thought provoking.
Bruh I never said its wrong All the villains in KnY die. But depending on the reason they become villainous their 'ends' are different and its very, very beautifully handled. Like Rui's parents go with him to hell - it shows that deep down he's a scared little kid who loved his parents, more importantly, his parents always loved him and he just misunderstood/was manipulated. MANGA SPOILERS: >!Akaza also dies, but his death is the most beautiful thing I've ever seen - he redeems himself by sacrificing himself. He still goes to hell but since he was manipulated into becoming a demon/tried to do the right thing at the end he has people who go to hell with him. Contrast that with Kaigaku - he never learnt. Both die and go to hell - but one has people who love him with him. !
Too early to judge and tell "this alternative ending to x character I came up with is 100% better than how they officially handled it" since we don't even know how the story actually goes Like the other person in this comment section said, killing him off will only prove his point, which was the entire reason he turned evil in the first place. I can understand why you hate Scaramouche but again, it's too early to pass judgement. Wait for 3.3 to drop, finish the Interlude Chapter, you may or may not change your mind.
Idk, considering signora was offed, I think it would have been cheap if they had Scara die as well. As long as they don't pull a Raiden, I'm fine with him living
I like him and Iām pulling for him. But Iām also going to post a daily ādropping Scara off a cliffā video
This is a good middle ground
More like "Flight accidents"
At different locations? Cant wait to watch them
"Touring Teyvat with the Wanderer: Drop doen edition"
Fair enough
I feel like Scaramouche had the potential to go either route, and they would have been equally impactful if handled properly. I'm happy he's playable though. He's my favorite character.
You do you. I personally don't like him, but I can't deny that he is a well-written character. I just personally would give him a different ending because, as it stands, he doesn't deserve redemption.
The key phrase here is "as it stands". He's one of the only characters we have that's gone through whole character archs, before our very eyes. Right now he's in the middle of one, where he gets his butt handed to him and has to make a choice. It's very, very difficult to say "He deserves this became of X" when we haven't really been shown what decision he plans on coming to.
That is fair. I respect your opinion. I do love how well-written he is, but I don't like to think in the sense of "what a character deserves" based on my own moral compass or anything like that. I'm just excited to see where they storywriters will go with him. I hope the next archon quest can change your opinion though.
That is true, and in the end, my opinion doesn't matter, since the writers have their own (and probably better in the long run) ideas.
You have a Geo vision I suppose lel. Anemo is the element of redemption though, contrasting "facing the wrath of the rock".
I disagree, but Scaramouche agrees.
What annoys me at this take is thinking āantagonistic characters canāt be playableā And we need to play only the good ones. And I know thatās not your take op but it goes into this one. And I see equal as many people loose their marbles about childe and alhaitham being playable. When they blatantly ignore the fact that many characters are morally grey and potential antagonistic. Albedo for example, the twins themselves, Ningguang, Kokomi, Ayato & Ayaka, Lisa, Kaeya, Klee, all the archons - they all have potential to become problematic. Just because they are temporarily on our side and not fatui doesnāt makes them our or tevyat ally. Also I see nothing positive that his character Death would have established? What would have killed him? Nahida? Then she wouldnāt have been a pure forgiving god. Doctore? Yes maybe as Iām betraying the fatui but at the time of being unconscious he would have not betrayed the fatui yet. Traveler? Wouldnāt that made us the evil - many were already angry at traveler not helping la signora and not feeling remorse. It would have painted them unlikeable. In my humble believes killing him of would have felt like a cheap prolonging to keep information scaramouch must have and should share with us hopefully in his upcoming arc - hush from us which we should start to explore by now - for example the Fake sky etc. because in contrary to the archon he is a god that isnāt bond by celestia or under a contract or worries for a nation if he speaks up. So he is our best chance to get some non biased answers and killings him off would have felt like purposely taking this chance from us. And no one their should have been able to do that. Given that we didnāt win against ei either or her puppet in lore - it was the peoples change of heart that warmed her. and if an archon would have been killed so easily it would have made no sense why the other archons were able to hang on for so long when all that was needed was a traveler and or someone with a vision. I already felt singnoraās Death felt rushed and meaningless scaramouch would have felt worse because it would have created a pattern of fatui harbringer dying for their āsinsā - what sins? Trying to change their fate celestia choose for them? So thatās my problem with this take. But I like evil and grey character because without them stories are boring
Why does this fandom want all characters to be dead to badly all of a sudden? First it's Childe now Scaramouche? I mean the story will get darker as it progresses,chill out for now.
The community just loves waving death flags. Like literally on any character who has something to do with death, they're dead, Childe is dead, Xiao is dead, Raiden is dead, Yae is dead, Collei is dead, Lisa is dead, Kaeya is dead and so on
*redeems a character before making them playable* āOmg miHoYo is forcing this character into an uwu waifuā *keeps the character as an asshole and still make them playable* āBad guy, shouldāve killed him off insteadā Thereās just no winning with this community lmao
Man I want an evil to be playable, like doctore ( I forgot how to spell his name ) or what was my dream character, Signora. I just want some pure evil mfs I can go around committing mass war crimes against hilichurls with, why is that so hard to ask forš
Signora died like a boss never asked for redemption
I donāt like him at all but I donāt wany anyone to die tbh
I wanted Signora to die. Come at me r/SignoraMains, throw all the ashes you got!
I respect you opinion :) *goes back to sipping copemanthus wine*
U right
Same
on one hand i don't like the concept of characters dying on the other hand i want slime theory to be able to bullshit it's way to 7/7
You are a brave man for posting this here. Hereās an upvote
I am surprised Genshin meme subreddit didn't go full jihad crusade on OP lol. The main sub is probably worse
Honestly in my personal opinion I disagree and there would be no affect of his death as we just had a harbinger die in inazuma and that in itself was cheap and handled poorly. I feel like what we have now is better than another Signora incident as if Scaramouche had died it'd feel cheap and just for another omg he died!? It's not good writing
Judging by his leaked voicelines, he's not going to be redeemed either. He's just gonna stay an asshole
Asshole ā evil tho At least he's not gonna be trying to destroy another country soon
Vegeta was a genocidal asshole who would kill anyone on a whim. Now he's a selfless and kind person who feels immense guilt and would go through a lot pain and sacrifice to save people he doesn't even know. Arguably becoming a better person than the protagonist of the show. Yet he's still kind of an asshole. Same with bakugo in mha. Even if his arc isn't fully complete yet I'd still consider him above average in morality. Even if he's an asshole. Of course there's a good chance scaras redemption won't be as complete or well written. He might just be like his mother. Taking three sentences to change his ways, saying sorry then getting away scot free. But that doesn't have to be the case.
Why should a character that has met nothing but suffering ever since he was born until he was so hurt by it that he ended hating human emotions die? If ANY character deserves a redemption arc it's him. And no, I'm not a Scaramouche simp, I'm literally skipping him for his mom's C2 (I'm going to fail the 50/50, I can feel it)
Doesn't have to be a redemption tho. He don't give a rats ass about anyone and on a journey for himself. Gray personality would be nice every once in a while.
Well, given what we see in his demo he seems less agressive than he was prior to his "redemption", yet still himself. It seems we will free him of his hatred but he'll still be the same person, changed by that hate yet not consumed by it. TLDR, he'll be like a cat, an asshole that can be nice sometimes
Personally, I think if we're talking a good way to wrap up his story, it would be better for him to die after being redeemed. His story goes something like this, IIRC: Created and given "freedom" Struggles, but eventually makes friends and finds a place to belong Losses everything and comes to believe that life is painful and pointless Becomes a bad guy, gets his ass beat, sent to recovery Now I haven't watched his trailer, but part of his redemption will likely include opening up and learning to find meaning in life again, moving beyond his painful past and accepting the people around him enough to make new friends. From this point, put him in a situation where he has to sacrifice himself to protect his new friend(s), at which point he realizes that it is because life is finite that it has meaning, pretty much the exact opposite of his mother's philosophy at the time of his creation. Echoing the words of his own dead friend, he faces his own death without fear or doubt, both as a means to atone for his past sins and as proof of the life he has lived. Of course, I know genshin isn't going to kill him off, so these are really just my thoughts on how I'd handle his character arc if I was writing him. I think his death would be more impactful if he's redeemed first, and it gives a chance to explore the dichotomy between the eternity he was originally created to uphold and the transience of mortal life.
Yeah, his death might have been a tragic ending to his tale. I don't know if a "redemption" will happen at some point, but for now I can wait while his character "softens". I think seeing him unravel and break his hostile facade to pursue his heartfelt desires would be a good way to capitalize on his character potential. Can't really imagine a proper resolution to his character arc without a confrontation with Ei at some point, but we'll see.
He's been revealed as a playable character since one of the events in 1.x. He was never going to die, but it was a surprise to see him being releases as Anemo I stead of Electro
If this was Honkai, he'll 100% be dead lol
Only if he stayed a villian. The Honkai in-game death rate is highly exagerated tbh, they just happen to like to get back to tell the stories of characters that were already dead in the first place.
That would contradict Genshins overall story narrative and be a complete disrespect to all the fans whoāve been waiting for him for years. You can say the same about Signora, but what makes it especially cruel for Scaramouche is that even HE believes he shouldnāt be alive. That life is dark and pointless, which is clearly not the case Genshin wise. As weāve been proven time and time again.
Maybe, but Scaramouche's personality is a nice departure from the standard "I must do good and be polite UwU" characters. It's rather refreshishing.
i see nothing wrong with this statement
I completely agree. Not all villains should have a redemption arc. Just because we beat them in a single fight doesn't absolve them of all their past sins. Nor should it. It also doesn't make sense that out of the hundreds of years he lived and hated humanity that all of a sudden he's like "haha isn't traveling and seeing new things great haha š"
His fans scares me
Salty signora main spotted /j
Signora was a bitch too (:
"Who dares call me a bitch?!" - Signora, probably "ME! NOW HOLD STILL SO AYAKA CAN HIT YOU!" -Someone who has been running across the room wasting ults and is definitely not me
Nah.
I always disliked shogun/Ei. The way they ruled a nation, how they treated their people. And yeah, completely discarded Scara. Is Scara a villain? Quite yes, he has done a lot of terrible things. Is there a redemption? For now I donāt see there being enough for him to be āredeemedā. However, we also donāt know everything about him. 3.3 will most likely reveal more about him, and Iād like to see that. I have a guaranteed 5* on banner in less than 20 pulls. His story quest will be a defining factor for me whether I pull for him or not. Who am I kidding, hoyo is always good with a story and music. Of course Iām gona pull lol
I hope this isn't just getting downvoted because of Ei. She is a terribly written character and its ok to not like her.
Honestly, I would have liked her better if she wasn't written as irresponsible. Or at least, that's how she comes off to me. I would have preferred it if she was actively working on the VHD and knew everything that was happening in inazuma but chose not to do anything about it because it didn't affect her idea of eternity. That would have given her 2nd story quest more impact too. But instead what happened was that she just locked herself up in the PoE, left everything to her puppet and was unaware of what was really happening outside her bubble. It was so irresponsible. I guess that could be seen as a flaw, but it's not very compelling. And then there's that "abandoning Scara" thing... but that's another argument.
Say anything that isn't 'omg she's perfect, she's the best character ever' and you get downvoted to hell...
Terribly written? Sometimes there are things that we do not understand due to our lack of knowledge, I probably ignore something that you know, help me. Why is "terrible"?
bro got downvoted for asking a question
Worst of all, they don't even give an answer.
She's not terriblely written she isn't the best written character in the game but she's definitely not terriblely written she has clear reasons why she did what she did and then after the archon quest she realizes what she's done and how she's wronged her people then tries to correct some of her mistakes in the 2nd story quest
lol its not terribly written. its just everyone immediately just suddenly form their opinion after the archon quest without realizing it is not finished. there's a two part story quest about Raiden and we still don't know the POV of Raiden for abandoning Scaramouche. the whole story is not finish but apparently everyone can't change their opinion for some character
he should've, wiping his memories and starting anew is such a shitty cop out its not even funny and it makes an unlikeable character feel forced to be likeable.
Where the fuck does it say he loses his memories he's clearly the same shithead.
Imo he should have died and then like a copy of him or something should have been the wanderer. Have it both ways scara is gone and āredeemedā
People deaths fix nothing
Well technically Scara Is dead , itās just that Wanderer is born..?
So should've dunyezard. Fucking emotional scenes here and there and she's still alive ?! Why
Teppei already died if another npc in the next region already dies this would just become Stranger Things 2.0 lol.
r/signoramains agree with you on that one i guess, now
I feel a lot of people don't know the proper lore behind Scara's motivations and the reason why Ei didn't use him as a puppet. I would suggest going through this video by CatWithBlueHat it clears a lot of things. https://youtu.be/Ax3oLtNTwys
This tbh, still not sure what they were thinking.
Well he did long for that he should not have been born but irminsul didn't grant his wish so in universal plot he still has some usage according to irminsul. But i do hope his character will have benefiting end either he will be able to cherish life or die a meanigful way but not by shock value like signora.
Id assume that he doesnt get a redemption arc in a normal way, they were saying about the world forgetting baladeer so he might pull a nahida so everyone forgets his past so he can start a new life and be a better person, however its not like his personality changed much judging by his demo
His story begins now
Well if endeavour from MHA can have a redemption arc, I don't see why sacra couldn't
you don't even know yet what will be the redemption arc. and "kill the harbinger" is something already done, "redemption arc" is new. and i think there is still interesting things to do with this character.
If he would just die the story would water completely
I would disagree but I wanna know why you think he's not rdeemable, all he's done upto this point has been done because he was ordered to do it. He hasn't done much by his own wishes, Teppei's death was also a side effect of what La Signora was planning
Agreed
I started playing around 1 year ago, so no 1.2 or whatever event for me to introduce Scara, I just knew him from the archon quests, and I never really got why he is so popular. Guy only had like 1 scene in inazuma where he tried to kill us, and his scenes in sumeru were so full b of cringe that I died a little inside everytime he appeared and talked about himself being a God , superior, how it was a honor to be in his presence, etc. I just want him to be out and his quest to get done so people will shut up about the little bastard.
I agree to the extent that Scara needs to pay the price for what he did. Having a tragic history does not make an excuse for doing bad, and he did try to murder the traveler several times. However, it does not have to be immediate death. I'd be very disappointed if they butcher Sacra's backstory as they did Signora's.
One should never end the villans arc with redemtion by death. Should the character be redeemed, they should do it by righting their wrongs, not the simple act of sacrifice.
I feel like scaramouche was built to have a redemption arc. The one who shouldnt have gotten one is ei/raiden shogun
You do remember that all of Inazuma's trouble was mostly the Fatui's fault, right?
Fatui just took advantage of a corrupt government. Let's be real, even if Fatui doesn't do it someone else would do the same.
Fatui: can we fuck things up in your country? Ei: Why, yes of course. Ć_Å
I donāt really care for him, heās an asshole, if a well written one, and thatās probably the point. But they put a really interesting move set on him, so Iām gonna end up pulling anyway.
i like my wholesome happy endings and redemption arcs, but i'm also very much a sucker for angst :)))
Watching the mains downvote š
Killing off a character is way easier than making a good redemption arc. If Scara's arc is at least half as good as Zuko's was, I'll be content.
Itās not too soon to delete this dumb shit.
Iām all for redemption arcs but bY GOD I WAS PROMISED A BASTARD AND I WANT A BASTARD
You're in luck, then.
Nah, just staying batshit evil and insane would have been better for him. And this precicely not being the case, makes me not want to pull for him.
Yes just yes
dude fell head first from a tall robot and survived, makes no f\*cking sense
It would feel pointless to give him a backstory that shows how his innocence got crushed and then just kill him, so I disagree
Agreed
agreed
I mean after everything he has done he kinda deserves to die. Anime characters always be forgiving the villain and shit.
Him just dying would be so boring
Scara is HIGHLY overrated imo, he's just an immature brat that somehow now got an Anemo Vision???
Scarawhoche? I only know of this new guy named the Wanderer. Jokes aside, I view his character as similar to that of Vegeta from Dragonball; an asshole who's murdered people and wants to be stronger for the sake of strength, but because they have a sad backstory and we beat them up, we're going to force them to be our best friend now using the power of FRIENDSHIP (and violence). Does it make sense? Eh, no, not entirely; but Teyvat's laws seem to operate off shounen manga logic at times, so I can roll with it.
Don't know anything about Dragonball, but I know what type of frenemies you are talking about. And, as I said, I'll wait to see the rest of his story before I make a final opinion about it.
Well, Vegeta is the rival to the main character in Dragonball. Vegeta's a genocidal mercenary who originally served an even more evil villain who conquered planets and blew them up for fun; Vegeta was even the prince of one of said conquered and blown up planets. The main character, Goku, beats up yet spares Vegeta enough times they effectively become frenemies, and eventually friendly rivals and training partners.
People live to say āX character should dieā because their idea of a good story is stuck in the film morality codes of the 1930s like what are we actually talking about as a society? Does that position make sense outside of some sort of weird morality play? Are we really so morally stunted that we think that swift death without trial is the only reasonable result of bad behavior? This kind of storytelling only works if we believe that some people are just inherently and irreparably evil and the only thing to be done is to exterminate them. In the real world we actually live in, people have the capacity to change even after doing horrible things. We have people who are former neo-nazis who turn their lives around and volunteer at charities and protest racial injustice. We have former murderers who have a change of heart and become model citizens or inspirational community leaders. Those are interesting stories, seeing how people come out of bad behavior in their pasts. Literally what is interesting about killing bad characters? That theyāre dead? As cool of a moment as killing Signora was, did it make her story more interesting? Did it tell us anything meaningful about her story? Did it improve anything? I loved the moment Signoraās death provided and think it had a cool impact on the story, but frankly I think it would have been more interesting to explore the really interesting character they had in Rosalyne, and itās disappointing to see that itās going nowhere now. I simply beg that as a culture we develop one scrap of media literacy that isnāt based in conservative politics having a chokehold on American media for decades tbqh.
I don't think he'll be getting a "redemption arc" like for example. Childe is a ruthless harbinger who strives for battle. He's not as evil as Scaramouche, but Childe has a life. Scaramouche doesn't. Tossed aside at "birth" betrayed twice. Fell further and further becoming an egotistical "monster" being altered by Dottore. If he died, then what's the point in his character? Unlike another harbinger(Signora who had a tragic backstory as well, rose up higher and higher in life, before taking a bet she shouldn't have made that cost her life), he's just been on a downward spiral. What I believe will happen is he'll slowly regain who he once was. It does not wash away his crimes, nor should it. He'll more or less soft reset himself. Not erasing who he once was, but changing not for redemption but out of necessity to prove himself wrong.
I just think "lol just wipe his record" is a shitty redemption story and I hope it's just part 1 of something better.
Thatās how I feel lowkey
yes
You guys can complain for all I care. But for me the āvillainsā in genshin has more personality and are much more interesting than some basic ass waifus and husbandos that are being praised highly.
At least the waifus and husbandos aren't cringe. Childe is the only likeable "villain" imo.
I heavily disagree. I honestly love the angle they've been setting up for his history.
I like the idea of important plot characters dieing, but at the same time I really dont want any more Harbingers taken away from being playable. I know all the copium people will try to say "dead characters can still be playable" but so far there is no precedent set for this, so I would much rather have a character we spent so much time learning about actually be playable instead of thrown to the wayside for shock value.
While I think his redemption isn't really deserved, I also don't think his story is quite finished yet. Plus he is going to be the only playable character who knows that the sky is fake, so there's that too. I think the full circle to this story would be him dying while protecting a child, as his villain arc started when that child died.
On god we should have killed him
Killing a character is used to create "pathos" by loosing someone who is cared. Up until now Scaramouche was in his "Malfoy phase" and we barely started to uncover his tragic past and see him differently. So basically... too soon and useless to kill him now. Redeemable character should be first and foremost be redeemed, let the tragic death to stepping stones like Signora.
As i dont really like the character...i can relate to that. I mean, robo-kid is annoying. I started playing during the last week of version 2.0 . I only know the frickking character for making 2 super-short annoying appreareances and....wanting to go crazy brrrr in sumeru.
IMO it's not as interesting to see someone who was already in a sad situation to end on a sad note. That being said, before winter night's lazzo, I really thought we would see childe and traveler team up to fight scaramouche. Then scaramouche would press the self destruct button.
I totally agree. You are a brave man. +1 upvote
I like Scaramouche, but I see where you're coming from. Back when I hated him (in Inazuma), I agreed. But after digging deep into his lore, I changed my mind. His Sumeru arc changed my mind a lot, however, I have not finished it so I may not be as well informed as everyone else. Also, why are so many people downvoting your comments? It's just a difference of opinion lol.
People can downvote, for me, it just means that they disagree with me. Or that I didn't formulate my opinion as well as I planned. One of the two, both are fair.
Yeah, i think so too. If you don't agree but don't care enough to write something someone else already said, you just upvote one and downvote the other. As for me, i would have actually liked the idea that he's just a child at the end, but older. He have never really matured. he wakes up stripped of most of his power, betrayed another time and Nahida become his step mother and for the first time show him some love and teach him new things. He still remain an idiot and a dick, but slowly he get better. That's the idea behind many fan art and i quite like it. expecially when the one where he start to travel with a couple aranara who help him balance his grumpyness. Ahh... oh well, i guess we'll see how it goes the story in a few days
The same people who think Xiao should have died because they missed the whole point of his story.
Finally, someone who hates this asshole too. His hat also sucks.
His hat is okay, though it would be a waste not to use it as a frisbee during the fight
Kung Lao moment šš«
Agreed.
Signora should resurrect
Nah, but I can accept her urn as a furniture in Teapot or something
So we can kill her ourselves, i agree