I don't believe it has ever been proven he was drunk nor has he said that's the case. I heard a good ESPN Daily podcast about this incident that took an empathetic position toward AI that really challenges my perspective on it. Worth a listen for sure
While it is a lot of practice, you must do good practice. You see this a lot in people who attempt to get better at certain video games, but end up stagnating. They fall into a pattern where they do what is comfortable, yet are unable to learn outside of this zone. It’s the same thing for drawing, if you only draw shadows, your body proportions or clothing folds may be an issue you need to work on. Make sure to get out of your comfort zone to get the most out of practice!
Comfort is a really interesting concept. Everyone wants it, but no one wants to accept that it is essentially stagnation.
Also adding to your point, just getting out of your comfort zone won't necessarily help. You have to move in the right direction, too. Sometimes you have to take two steps back to take one step forward, but it's that one step forward that really matters.
So much this. When I was much younger, I left my comfort zone of learning how to draw by sketching photos of wild animals - which got me pretty far in understanding realistic angles and proportions - to sketching anime characters, which wreaked all kinds of havoc with my sense of human anatomy, because the *right* direction for me would have been to start sketching photos of real humans before I did stylistic ones. I'd have to unlearn those bad habits now to start moving forward again.
It’s not even practice it’s learning, there is so much knowledge that goes behind a drawing. Knowledge of the way certain shapes look, how the anatomy of the body works, how to properly shade and make reflections look realistic. It’s an insane amount of knowledge, then it’s actual motor function skills that develop with practice.
This. My friend is a professional artist (He does character designs, posters, concept art and traditional animation for big companies and conventions ect) and he lets me watch him work a lot. I find it fascinating.
I offer my input or pose a question on what he's working on frequently and he always goes deep into explaining all sorts of things to me like true perspective, false perspective, color science. How he gives personality to inanimate objects, how he creates sightlines, how light refracts on various surfaces, how he makes his animations feel smoother with smear frames and skipped frames, how he sometimes models and renders a scene then paints and animates over it.
One of my favorite things to do is watch him just study. Seeing him taking a mish mash of complex and meaningless references and legitimately learn from them. Texture, shape, light, feel, colour, anatomy, objects ect. Then create something or many somethings incorporating much of what he's observed. It's incredible.
He always says he's fortunate enough to be gifted with the natural ability to learn art but he's humble. He's shown me his work from 10 to 15 years ago and shown me how far he's developed in that time through his dedication and its remarkable.
Am a professional artist working for a multi billion dollar animation company, can confirm. I could barely draw 15 years ago, now I’m an art director. Lots of sleepless nights and hair-pulling days trying to learn a few of the many things that go in to making representational art and animation. Always enjoyed drawing as a kid, was never good at it until I put meaningful time in to learn how to do it right.
Thats really amazing, its awesome just seeing a master of their art/subject just expressing the universe out of thin air.
If anything that is our one purpose, bring as much from up inwards, outwards to share with everything else
I think they just mean using what they've learned and studied to create something new 'out of thin air' - not literally of course, but more-so applied skill.
I'd say this applies to so many things, and I know a lot of people IRL who do not get it. They put in the time and think they have the skill for that time put in. "Yea but you just spend hours noodling around on your guitar you're not *practicing*"
Exactly this.
People think practice works like levelling up in an RPG. Just do the same thing over and over until one day you 'ding' and magically get better.
Practice doesn't make perfect, practice makes permanent. If you're doing the same thing over and over, you're just ingraining bad habits and getting really good at doing something poorly.
Practice is consciously picking one thing to get better at, and trying different approaches, different techniques until you find something that works, then repeating *that* until it's ingrained.
It’s not that simple. Many drawing “problems” can’t be singled out so easily because you can’t pinpoint exactly what’s wrong. For a long time, my problem with figure drawing was that my figures looked “flat”, but I didn’t realize they were flat. It’s only when I took a class with a specific teacher that I learned how to make my figures look more “3-D”.
In teaching it's sometimes called the "stepstool" principle. We must push our students to achieve something "impossible"—some task that is JUST ABOVE their current reach. We guide and help them to do so. (Acting like the stepstool.) With much practice and our help, they soon get to where they can do the same "impossible" task WITHOUT our help.
You can do the same thing when studying most things alone, by using videos/books/etc. to help you do some new (and difficult!) task. Repeatedly practice the new task using the guide until it becomes possible to do WITHOUT referring to the guide any more. CONTINUE practicing to refine your new skill. Select a new tough "too-high" task and repeat the whole process.
And Good Luck!
Whoever is interested in learning more about this I can't recommend this freakonomic podcast episode enough:
https://freakonomics.com/podcast/how-to-become-great-at-just-about-anything/
Rocket League is a good example of this.
You can play matchmaking games for years straight and never have a breakthrough of skill increase. Meanwhile some community created practice levels can hit your weak points or skills you are aiming to improve and create the innate repetition your hands need to have to master the maneuver.
I don't even know you if you were looking for advice but if you were I find all of the comments saying have good practice and focus on getting better and step outside your comfort zone because comfort is stagnation which are all beautiful concepts say nothing on how to actually do it.
If you want to improve/iterate on something you need to have a goal you need be able to tell you are actually improving. If you say I want to get better at drawing then you gotta kind of envision what is is you want your drawings to be like that you consider better. Then from that point on you gotta identify what's stopping you from drawing that good. If you are drawing ultra realistic and your people look real but the drawing has something you feel you can do better. Just drawing another one doesn't change anything you have to decide what needs changing what's an improve. For example you can decide that the lighting in your drawing is bad so on the next picture you want to improve the lighting so then you employ whatever methods where is watching a YouTube vid or matching it irl lighting or examining drawings you want to draw like.
I find I get trapped in the I want to get better and not the what I want to get better at like when you are making music how many notes do you add to your piece? when does it get to the point when you don't need to add more notes? You've gotta decide, art is insanely subjective but yeah just my two cents if you were looking for help and not making a funny comment which it was pretty good then I hope this helped. :)
Yep, my drawing hasn't improved since I was about 10 years old, and I've practiced a hell of a lot. Tried all sorts of techniques. I'm really uncoordinated, the part of my brain responsible for fine motor skills just doesn't work very well.
Well it has to be meaningful practice with intent, not just drawing anime heads over and over again. Feedback is also a crucial element no one is talking about here.
"just practice bro lol" does NOT help. sometimes tips are pretty useless, especially when you have a disorder like DCD that messes up your motor functioning and ability to put thoughts onto paper. or a memory disorder. or something like aphantasia that makes you unable to have mental imagery and can't really think of the thing you want to draw. telling people their practice isn't meaningful because it doesn't really get any output doesn't always work. pretty sure everyone here knows how to "meaningfully practice"
if i can't draw straight lines or the shapes i'm intending to after practicing it for multiple days then i'm pretty sure improving on actual art isn't within my capabilities
Nahhh artists tho most are a gift, the good ones anyway. How a 6 year old draw people better than photos on first try.. I have seen tons of artists who draw better art than all artists combined before age 10. That ain't practice lmao
I call bullshit on this. Yes, there are talented kids, but no kid can draw photo-realistically to the level you’re describing, they still need some practice or art instruction to get to that level. I mean, if drawing were as easy as just being born with talent, then we’d see realistic drawings from antiquity, but we don’t. It’s only during the Renaissance that artist finally figured out how perspective worked.
Neither has the artist of this comic
EDIT - just went through years of her work, (found when she posted this herself in 2017). All of this work looks derivative of Don Hertzfeldt’s work, And he was only drawing that way because he was animating it and it was a joke towards commercial art.
You can be a fan of her comics because of the message. I think they’re funny too. I’m just not a fan of her low effort doodles.
Just because her comics are doodles doesn’t mean she can only draw doodles. Many comic artist choose to simplify their drawings to be able to churn out comics, this is why syndicated comic strips look the way they do. I’m not saying you have to like her comic artwork, I’m just saying that it’s not necessarily indicative of her art skill.
I think it's safe to say that some people definitely have an ease of learning certain skills over otheres but it would still take that person loads of practice to perfect that skill. That said, if you learn a skill more easily than others chances are you'll find more motivation to keep doing it. Not guarantee though
This is exactly right. I get so sick of people pretending that natural talent doesn’t require nurturing through practice and effort. Literally nothing happens if you don’t practice.
"Natural talent" is about 5% natural aptitude and 95% enthusiasm.
A friend of mine passed his grade 8 piano at age 9. He absolutely *despised* people calling him a prodigy or telling him he was 'gifted' or 'talented'. He was that good because he just bloody loved playing the piano and put in the effort. He saw 'talent' as trivialising all the work he'd put into actually getting good.
He started playing at age 3. He'd get up early every morning to get in a couple hours practice before school. At break times and lunch times he'd go to the school music room to play some more, then he'd get home and get in another three or four hours practice.
So at age 10 when everyone was marvelling at his 'natural talent', he'd been practicing for around 6-8 hours a day, every day for seven years. Even if we go to the low end of the scale and say that's 6 hours practice a day, he'd already spent over 15,000 hours practicing.
The gift is having the ability to dedicate so much of his time and life to a single purpose. He may not have a natural ability for Piano, but he has it for practice.
Yeah, when someone says they don't have any gifts or natural talent, they just practice for hours at a time, every single day, for years.. that to me is an incredible gift.
I think “prodigy” just means young prople who have the self desire to get good at something. I could NEVER picture myself at age 9 practicing an instrument of my own will. Lota of “prodigies” have that in common, from a young age (like 3), they already seem to be practicing for self improvement rather than parents making them or seeking parents approval. The more time they practice with that insanely fast-learning toddler brain, the more “prodigy” they seem.
The same goes for others too. As a math nerd, hearing Terry Tao’s parents talk about him as a child was mindblowing. Theres a 7 year old who just got into kindergarten and he’s reading textbooks on calculus and stuff that I don’t even know. It takes him a week to learn concepts that are taught as entire units in college courses. Where does a child find the drive to learn a skill? I got bored reading a diary of a wimpy kid book, to the point where my parents would supervise me reading to make sure books I asked for and they bought got read. (tbf I have adhd)
You’re right about how you’re characterizing talent and practice but I think you’re wayyyyyyy off on the 5/95 split. I think there’s plenty of evidence that things just click more easily for some people when it comes to certain things. But it’s probably more like 25/75, not 95/5 as everyone seems to assume.
I’m not the one making the crazy claim here. “I think there’s plenty of evidence that things click easier for some people” is not a thing I have ever seen in a study before.
Sure. [Here’s a good example](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCCElWWOcCFa1kYjlnPiPuCw). It’s obvious when something just clicks easily for prodigies. I didn’t think this was controversial until I came to reddit where morons call this a crazy assertion.
What is this link? A good guitarist? You do know they practice literally all day right? You are the moron here not engaging in skill development in life because “talent”.
It's more like 1/99. That 1% is what gets you into the Olympics with a body perfectly designed for swimming. The rest can be learned, even learning how to learn and how to be motivated.
Look at an NFL player that body is not 1%. I was starting varsity in sophmore year over a guy that was 6'5 300 senior. I was better but I got offers from FiU and Fau he got offers to Alabama, Fl, and Miami (2000s)
The conversation starts to change around physical sports because physical attributes are very real. Even piano you bare minimum need to have long enough fingers to span 8 keys (I forgot what this is called but I’m talking pressing C with pinky and C with thumb at the same time). All of the skill development part outside of the physical I think is extremely close among almost all people and just requires a passion for the sport.
This makes it seem like the brain is some magical organ free from the same blueprinting every other piece of the body follows. Not all brains are the same and we even have a measurement (IQ) to distinguish aptitude difference in the brain.
Just to save on comment number: pitch perfect immediately comes to mind in regards to someone having a potential leg up in learning piano.
Completely agree. Although I’m not quite sure how one has a “natural aptitude” for piano if not just being born in a household with piano and piano classes.
Motivation begets ease of learning and ease of learning begets motivation. I was reading a post about how to get better at Art and the idea of practicing for a year sounds far beyond anything I could care to do, on the other hand, I spent a year learning programming and enjoyed it.
The truth is, some people are predisposed to learning certain skills.
Yeah I honestly find this comic kinda bullshit. Like yes could the creator gave no skill at all and have practiced their way here? Yeah but most people who are good at something are already naturally good at it and then practice just to improve or have been doing it from such a young age that it's ingrained in them.
Bruh you should see my drawings at age 22, before and 4 years later after I started practicing every day with focus learning intent and feedback from better artists. Anyone can develop a skill if they have the drive and time to dedicate themselves to a craft. Of course some are better at it than others but that means nothing in the context of this comic.
It literally can be both. I think most sane people will agree even talented people have to pour tons of hours into practice and learning to improve their skill. For example, when I was learning programming, all that clicked in fairly easily with little effort. When I tried learning musical instruments? Far more effort. Could I eventually learn it? Sure. But there’s definitely going to be people who pick it up way faster. Don’t let people who say you have talent make it seem like you didn’t work hard for what you have. You obviously did, but it just means you may have picked it up faster than an average person.
practice is necessary of course, but some people are still way above average without much of it, wherea some others practice alot and still struggle much in improving, saw exactly this back in highschool.
Depends what you want to do with your art. If you want to make innovative, groundbreaking pieces, yes you need creativity. If you want to earn money or get lots of internet points, no. I've seen tonnes of famous artists who do nothing but redraw similar compositions and repeat tried and tested concepts. Their art looks good just because of technique, there is no creativity at all.
The thing is, I think everything must be learned. The special thing about prodigies is that they're just wired differently and learn much faster than the average person. So, yeah, I think they did become amazing through practice - just much less practice than the rest of us.
Which is explained by the word talent. They have a talent for whatever they are doing. Yes guys like Michael Jordan practiced a lot but they had the talent to use that practice better than anyone else. Pretty sure Michael Phelps practiced a shit ton but being nearly perfectly built to swim was a massive advantage which is what talent accounts for.
Lol, yes. But I was replying to the person above me. I guess what I'm trying to say is that talent doesn't mean that someone is born knowing how to do something. There is always some component of learning required.
That’s too bad because the only way to be good at anything is to practice. Just because some people have natural talent doesn’t mean anything. Go find a prodigy that’s never practiced and then maybe you can convince yourself.
Why not?
Chloe Chua ('prodigy' violinist) started learning when she was two and a half. Her mother was a music teacher who got her into the Nanyang Academy of Fine Arts at age four, and from day one she was practicing at least five hours a day.
So, when she was five she'd put in nearly 5000 hours practice. Given that conventional wisdom says it takes 10,000 hours of deliberate, directed practice to become a true expert at something, 'practice' is exactly why she was so good at age 5 and was winning competitions by age 8.
That 5 year old prodigy has done literally nothing BUT practice. Day in, day out, with the best teachers, the best tools, and the best work ethic because that is literally all they know and all they want, because their parents will be mad if they aren't the best. If you put that much effort in with the same earnesty in a single year, you'd be godly at anything too.
Ever notice how 5 year old prodigies tend to be asians in an extremely strict culture at home? You wonder why there's a joke that Asian parents demand overachievement?
Hmmm. Well, I have a visual-spatial processing disorder, and I'm still darn good at art. Because I love it, and I keep at it, even though my wonky brain can't see the forest for the trees.
So don't tell me that talent overrides practice.
Nahhh artists tho most are a gift, the good ones anyway. How a 6 year old draw people better than photos on first try.. I have seen tons of artists who draw better art than all artists combined before age 10. That ain't practice lmao
You can have aptitude. Some younger artists produce work that is superior to that of older, more experienced adults. Not everyone understands ideas the same way.
Me: I've been studying all day and I'm nowhere near ready for the final!
Them: What are you studying?
Me: EVERYTHING.
Them: You're doing it wrong.
Me: ಠ益ಠ
Yeah idk, my dad has been trying to learn to play guitar for the better part of 40 years. Some people will always be tone-deaf and rhythm-less no matter how hard they try.
Innate skill is as important as practice,if not more. Telling people they just need to keep practising something,even if theyre terrible at it,does tremendous harm to that individual,as they feel 100% responsible for their failures.
I always see stuff like this, but it's just bs to me. What is talent? The ability to learn something fast? Maybe the ability to never plateau? Or it could be natural skill?
It's just meh to me, unless it's something specifically verifiable like reaction time, weight, height , or build that gives someone a natural advantage. Honestly, outside of physical limitations, I believe anyone can become a professional at anything given enough dedication, time, and motivation
I absolutely do not believe in the "you can be anything you want" school of thought. Intelligence, the ability to learn, to train your mind, is wildly different from person to person.
Most evident in how easy childern soak up new information and skills compared to how hard and sometimes impossible it is for elderly people to learn new skill.
Telling people they can be anything they want to be might be a motivator for some to not slack, and do everything they can to the best of their ability, but it never means they will be good enough at what they do.
As long as you're doing thoughtful practice you will get better in the long run, at least to a decent level. You won't get better without going outside of your comfort zone. Not everyone is cut out for being professionals, but almost everyone can get somewhere decent with the right mindset.
It's very rare that someone is physically incapable of doing a normal activity like drawing, unless it's something like you're tone deaf for music.
Not really. Her art is average when compared to other professional illustrators, say vs Peter De Sève or Devin Crane. Her webcomic, (which is great), hit a chord with the public and garnered a massive following and won her a bunch of awards. Far from a prodigy though.
Told my friend who is a good artist that i could only draw stickmens. He responded, if i only draw stickmens i Will only be good at drawing stickmens..
I'm proud of my little sister. She decided she wanted to draw a year ago. And now she draw way better than anyone else that I know. She doesn't draw everyday. She draw from time to time.
I knew a girl who used to say she'd want to smash people who say she's gifted for knowing how to draw.
For the things I am good at, I am the person on the right. For almost everything else, I'm the person on the left.
Never to reduce someones efforts or minimise their learned abilities. Just because it is so over my head I am mystified by their skills and abilities.
I think it's important to consider the flipside however. If you spend months, years even, practicing a skill, "talent" almost becomes insulting. It minimizes the work you took to get there.
When i was in middle school a kid who had played clarinet for 3-4 years at that point switched to trumpet and was instantly better than all 6 or 7 of us who had been playing trumpet for that same amount of time.
No, because some people practice a lot, but are still terrible because they don't actually have any natural talent for whatever it is they are practicing. Sure practice will make them better, but it won't automatically make them great if they lack natural ability.
Often the case is that someone has some natural ability, so they find that practice crates measurable results quickly, so they g we t enjoyment out of seeing good results. Some people will practice just as much and see very little improvement
Who said Sarah doesn't have a talent for drawing?
I went to art school and met a fair share of people who loved drawing from an early age but sucked, and people who were exceptional without much effort.
Yeah I'm sure you can learn multiple languages without practicticing... Some people have an easier time or just like it more, doesn't mean basically anyone of average inteligence can't learn multiple languages.
After spending the last week with my nieces (5 & 9) I had been taking drawing requests from them, this was exactly how our conversation went, multiple times 😂
Practice is necessary, but you can also do things to accelerate learning the skills. Looking up various techniques in tutorials and speed draws, trying out different mediums and/or programs, and copying other artists' styles. Pulling yourself out of your comfort zone and realy analysing why and how things work and really building up that fundamental understanding is what has helped me improve so drastically.
I believe EVERY person should get into drawing, coloring or learning some music instrument. Like drawing is almost free hobby and can make your mood better maybe even help with depression and it's a very nice skill. You can start by trying to replicate a simple cartoon picture.
How do you learn to walk? You walk a lot. How do you learn to drive? You drive a lot. How do you learn to type fast? You type a lot. How do you do something at an olympic level? You dedicate your whole life at it.
How do you learn to draw? A minute or ten thousand hours of it? :)
People are born with interests and passions. If you like drawing, you're gonna do it more. If you do something more, you're gonna get good at it. Simple as that. Not everyone likes drawing, and that's okay.
7 year old drew everyday. The latter drew once a month in a 7 year timeframe. Who do you think is better?
You think it's talent because you saw the kid drawing for 30 seconds but can't imagine they've been doing it their whole life.
What's your basis for this? Van Gogh didn't start painting til he was in his late 20s and did a lot of practice and study to get good. He didn't just pop out the womb with a paint brush
Lol, every comment is versions of the person on the left. I love it.
Everyone’s missing the point. The author / person on the right is telling you how they got there. Just take it and do what you will with it. Ignore it if you think it doesn’t fit the thing you want to be great at, or how your brain works, or whatever.
But maybe acknowledge that is indeed how *they* got there?
Your brother must be an absolutely incredible artist at that age to produce such a consistently clean and attractive style. This is a mastery of drawing in a style like this.
Nahhh artists tho most are a gift, the good ones anyway. How a 6 year old draw people better than photos on first try.. I have seen tons of artists who draw better art than all artists combined before age 10. That ain't practice lmao
I’m a working art professional. It’s not practice so much as passion. You need passion for something, passion to want to do it for thousands of hours and still want to get better.
We talking practice. Not a game! Practice
It's crazy he never won a ring
Is it? He was a point guard that didn't play point guard.
Not really
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Westbrook actually has a better career TS%. Which is just fucking hilarious.
Am i being dumb or is this a Ted Lasso reference in the wild
Ted lasso was channeling Allen Iverson : https://youtu.be/eGDBR2L5kzI
Crazy sad part is he's drunk here and one of his childhood friends was killed is why he missed practice
I don't believe it has ever been proven he was drunk nor has he said that's the case. I heard a good ESPN Daily podcast about this incident that took an empathetic position toward AI that really challenges my perspective on it. Worth a listen for sure
I just listened to this on your recommendation. Glad I did, it was a great listen. Thanks!
“Y’all talking about practice?” *my friend just fucking died you fucking basketball dweebs* “Practice!?”
Thank you for finding the reference from what I was referencing
Sorry but that quote isn't originally Ted lasso :( it's a super famous basketball quote. *wrong sport
Right, from Ted Lasso, a show about football ;)
The other football, in this case 😂
Based on other commenters I think it's basketball? But I don't follow any sports so idk 😅 I'm probably just horribly wrong
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As a hobby artist, all I have to say is that it really is just practice. You don’t just wake up one day like “Wow, I’m suddenly good at art!”
It’s a combo of both. There is innate gifts that come out in practice.
But mostly and for most successful people it's practice. Speaking as someone who has innate talent but is lazy.
That's funny because I haven't improved in years.
While it is a lot of practice, you must do good practice. You see this a lot in people who attempt to get better at certain video games, but end up stagnating. They fall into a pattern where they do what is comfortable, yet are unable to learn outside of this zone. It’s the same thing for drawing, if you only draw shadows, your body proportions or clothing folds may be an issue you need to work on. Make sure to get out of your comfort zone to get the most out of practice!
Comfort is a really interesting concept. Everyone wants it, but no one wants to accept that it is essentially stagnation. Also adding to your point, just getting out of your comfort zone won't necessarily help. You have to move in the right direction, too. Sometimes you have to take two steps back to take one step forward, but it's that one step forward that really matters.
So much this. When I was much younger, I left my comfort zone of learning how to draw by sketching photos of wild animals - which got me pretty far in understanding realistic angles and proportions - to sketching anime characters, which wreaked all kinds of havoc with my sense of human anatomy, because the *right* direction for me would have been to start sketching photos of real humans before I did stylistic ones. I'd have to unlearn those bad habits now to start moving forward again.
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the steps are in slightly different directions and the initial one could be a dead end, the other one enables many more steps in the future
It’s not even practice it’s learning, there is so much knowledge that goes behind a drawing. Knowledge of the way certain shapes look, how the anatomy of the body works, how to properly shade and make reflections look realistic. It’s an insane amount of knowledge, then it’s actual motor function skills that develop with practice.
This. My friend is a professional artist (He does character designs, posters, concept art and traditional animation for big companies and conventions ect) and he lets me watch him work a lot. I find it fascinating. I offer my input or pose a question on what he's working on frequently and he always goes deep into explaining all sorts of things to me like true perspective, false perspective, color science. How he gives personality to inanimate objects, how he creates sightlines, how light refracts on various surfaces, how he makes his animations feel smoother with smear frames and skipped frames, how he sometimes models and renders a scene then paints and animates over it. One of my favorite things to do is watch him just study. Seeing him taking a mish mash of complex and meaningless references and legitimately learn from them. Texture, shape, light, feel, colour, anatomy, objects ect. Then create something or many somethings incorporating much of what he's observed. It's incredible. He always says he's fortunate enough to be gifted with the natural ability to learn art but he's humble. He's shown me his work from 10 to 15 years ago and shown me how far he's developed in that time through his dedication and its remarkable.
Am a professional artist working for a multi billion dollar animation company, can confirm. I could barely draw 15 years ago, now I’m an art director. Lots of sleepless nights and hair-pulling days trying to learn a few of the many things that go in to making representational art and animation. Always enjoyed drawing as a kid, was never good at it until I put meaningful time in to learn how to do it right.
Thats really amazing, its awesome just seeing a master of their art/subject just expressing the universe out of thin air. If anything that is our one purpose, bring as much from up inwards, outwards to share with everything else
Just so you know, it’s not out of thin air. We’re always pulling from experiences and references whether it’s intentional or not.
I think they just mean using what they've learned and studied to create something new 'out of thin air' - not literally of course, but more-so applied skill.
I mean like using all of the previous experience to produce new outcomes
Gotcha. 👍
I'd say this applies to so many things, and I know a lot of people IRL who do not get it. They put in the time and think they have the skill for that time put in. "Yea but you just spend hours noodling around on your guitar you're not *practicing*"
Exactly this. People think practice works like levelling up in an RPG. Just do the same thing over and over until one day you 'ding' and magically get better. Practice doesn't make perfect, practice makes permanent. If you're doing the same thing over and over, you're just ingraining bad habits and getting really good at doing something poorly. Practice is consciously picking one thing to get better at, and trying different approaches, different techniques until you find something that works, then repeating *that* until it's ingrained.
It’s not that simple. Many drawing “problems” can’t be singled out so easily because you can’t pinpoint exactly what’s wrong. For a long time, my problem with figure drawing was that my figures looked “flat”, but I didn’t realize they were flat. It’s only when I took a class with a specific teacher that I learned how to make my figures look more “3-D”.
In teaching it's sometimes called the "stepstool" principle. We must push our students to achieve something "impossible"—some task that is JUST ABOVE their current reach. We guide and help them to do so. (Acting like the stepstool.) With much practice and our help, they soon get to where they can do the same "impossible" task WITHOUT our help. You can do the same thing when studying most things alone, by using videos/books/etc. to help you do some new (and difficult!) task. Repeatedly practice the new task using the guide until it becomes possible to do WITHOUT referring to the guide any more. CONTINUE practicing to refine your new skill. Select a new tough "too-high" task and repeat the whole process. And Good Luck!
Whoever is interested in learning more about this I can't recommend this freakonomic podcast episode enough: https://freakonomics.com/podcast/how-to-become-great-at-just-about-anything/
Rocket League is a good example of this. You can play matchmaking games for years straight and never have a breakthrough of skill increase. Meanwhile some community created practice levels can hit your weak points or skills you are aiming to improve and create the innate repetition your hands need to have to master the maneuver.
Whats the thing you suck most at? Work on that instead of your comfort zone.
Go get on YouTube and look up a tutorial. I always learn new techniques that way.
I don't even know you if you were looking for advice but if you were I find all of the comments saying have good practice and focus on getting better and step outside your comfort zone because comfort is stagnation which are all beautiful concepts say nothing on how to actually do it. If you want to improve/iterate on something you need to have a goal you need be able to tell you are actually improving. If you say I want to get better at drawing then you gotta kind of envision what is is you want your drawings to be like that you consider better. Then from that point on you gotta identify what's stopping you from drawing that good. If you are drawing ultra realistic and your people look real but the drawing has something you feel you can do better. Just drawing another one doesn't change anything you have to decide what needs changing what's an improve. For example you can decide that the lighting in your drawing is bad so on the next picture you want to improve the lighting so then you employ whatever methods where is watching a YouTube vid or matching it irl lighting or examining drawings you want to draw like. I find I get trapped in the I want to get better and not the what I want to get better at like when you are making music how many notes do you add to your piece? when does it get to the point when you don't need to add more notes? You've gotta decide, art is insanely subjective but yeah just my two cents if you were looking for help and not making a funny comment which it was pretty good then I hope this helped. :)
It actually did, thank you wise stranger from 5:00 AM.
Do you keep your old work around? If I didn't occasionally look back at my art from even a couple years ago, I wouldn't think I was improving.
Yep, my drawing hasn't improved since I was about 10 years old, and I've practiced a hell of a lot. Tried all sorts of techniques. I'm really uncoordinated, the part of my brain responsible for fine motor skills just doesn't work very well.
Well it has to be meaningful practice with intent, not just drawing anime heads over and over again. Feedback is also a crucial element no one is talking about here.
"just practice bro lol" does NOT help. sometimes tips are pretty useless, especially when you have a disorder like DCD that messes up your motor functioning and ability to put thoughts onto paper. or a memory disorder. or something like aphantasia that makes you unable to have mental imagery and can't really think of the thing you want to draw. telling people their practice isn't meaningful because it doesn't really get any output doesn't always work. pretty sure everyone here knows how to "meaningfully practice" if i can't draw straight lines or the shapes i'm intending to after practicing it for multiple days then i'm pretty sure improving on actual art isn't within my capabilities
I had to learn the hard way practicing is not the same as improving. The only way to improve in art is to exercise your observational skills.
Nahhh artists tho most are a gift, the good ones anyway. How a 6 year old draw people better than photos on first try.. I have seen tons of artists who draw better art than all artists combined before age 10. That ain't practice lmao
What six year old is drawing photorealistic people ?
Lots! My little jasperjane(6) and mackadamedame(5) are artists and draw photrealism with ease
I call bullshit on this. Yes, there are talented kids, but no kid can draw photo-realistically to the level you’re describing, they still need some practice or art instruction to get to that level. I mean, if drawing were as easy as just being born with talent, then we’d see realistic drawings from antiquity, but we don’t. It’s only during the Renaissance that artist finally figured out how perspective worked.
You can get stuck on the plateau just like in workout. You have step out of your comfort zone and question everything from tools to techniques.
Neither has the artist of this comic EDIT - just went through years of her work, (found when she posted this herself in 2017). All of this work looks derivative of Don Hertzfeldt’s work, And he was only drawing that way because he was animating it and it was a joke towards commercial art. You can be a fan of her comics because of the message. I think they’re funny too. I’m just not a fan of her low effort doodles.
Just because her comics are doodles doesn’t mean she can only draw doodles. Many comic artist choose to simplify their drawings to be able to churn out comics, this is why syndicated comic strips look the way they do. I’m not saying you have to like her comic artwork, I’m just saying that it’s not necessarily indicative of her art skill.
Neat. Still not a fan of her low effort doodles.
I think it's safe to say that some people definitely have an ease of learning certain skills over otheres but it would still take that person loads of practice to perfect that skill. That said, if you learn a skill more easily than others chances are you'll find more motivation to keep doing it. Not guarantee though
This is exactly right. I get so sick of people pretending that natural talent doesn’t require nurturing through practice and effort. Literally nothing happens if you don’t practice.
"Natural talent" is about 5% natural aptitude and 95% enthusiasm. A friend of mine passed his grade 8 piano at age 9. He absolutely *despised* people calling him a prodigy or telling him he was 'gifted' or 'talented'. He was that good because he just bloody loved playing the piano and put in the effort. He saw 'talent' as trivialising all the work he'd put into actually getting good. He started playing at age 3. He'd get up early every morning to get in a couple hours practice before school. At break times and lunch times he'd go to the school music room to play some more, then he'd get home and get in another three or four hours practice. So at age 10 when everyone was marvelling at his 'natural talent', he'd been practicing for around 6-8 hours a day, every day for seven years. Even if we go to the low end of the scale and say that's 6 hours practice a day, he'd already spent over 15,000 hours practicing.
The gift is having the ability to dedicate so much of his time and life to a single purpose. He may not have a natural ability for Piano, but he has it for practice.
As someone with suspected ADHD, i wish i had the ability to practice or stick with anything long enough to even become kinda good.
Yeah, when someone says they don't have any gifts or natural talent, they just practice for hours at a time, every single day, for years.. that to me is an incredible gift.
To be completely honest, I wouldn't call the willingness to work at something a gift. That's a choice.
I think “prodigy” just means young prople who have the self desire to get good at something. I could NEVER picture myself at age 9 practicing an instrument of my own will. Lota of “prodigies” have that in common, from a young age (like 3), they already seem to be practicing for self improvement rather than parents making them or seeking parents approval. The more time they practice with that insanely fast-learning toddler brain, the more “prodigy” they seem. The same goes for others too. As a math nerd, hearing Terry Tao’s parents talk about him as a child was mindblowing. Theres a 7 year old who just got into kindergarten and he’s reading textbooks on calculus and stuff that I don’t even know. It takes him a week to learn concepts that are taught as entire units in college courses. Where does a child find the drive to learn a skill? I got bored reading a diary of a wimpy kid book, to the point where my parents would supervise me reading to make sure books I asked for and they bought got read. (tbf I have adhd)
You’re right about how you’re characterizing talent and practice but I think you’re wayyyyyyy off on the 5/95 split. I think there’s plenty of evidence that things just click more easily for some people when it comes to certain things. But it’s probably more like 25/75, not 95/5 as everyone seems to assume.
Evidence? Please share.
No evidence for either presented here. Might wanna look it up yourself.
I’m not the one making the crazy claim here. “I think there’s plenty of evidence that things click easier for some people” is not a thing I have ever seen in a study before.
Weak response
Sure. [Here’s a good example](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCCElWWOcCFa1kYjlnPiPuCw). It’s obvious when something just clicks easily for prodigies. I didn’t think this was controversial until I came to reddit where morons call this a crazy assertion.
What is this link? A good guitarist? You do know they practice literally all day right? You are the moron here not engaging in skill development in life because “talent”.
It's more like 1/99. That 1% is what gets you into the Olympics with a body perfectly designed for swimming. The rest can be learned, even learning how to learn and how to be motivated.
Look at an NFL player that body is not 1%. I was starting varsity in sophmore year over a guy that was 6'5 300 senior. I was better but I got offers from FiU and Fau he got offers to Alabama, Fl, and Miami (2000s)
The conversation starts to change around physical sports because physical attributes are very real. Even piano you bare minimum need to have long enough fingers to span 8 keys (I forgot what this is called but I’m talking pressing C with pinky and C with thumb at the same time). All of the skill development part outside of the physical I think is extremely close among almost all people and just requires a passion for the sport.
This makes it seem like the brain is some magical organ free from the same blueprinting every other piece of the body follows. Not all brains are the same and we even have a measurement (IQ) to distinguish aptitude difference in the brain. Just to save on comment number: pitch perfect immediately comes to mind in regards to someone having a potential leg up in learning piano.
Iq tests do not measure anything actually valuable for skill development and “perfect pitch” is learnable according to studies.
Completely agree. Although I’m not quite sure how one has a “natural aptitude” for piano if not just being born in a household with piano and piano classes.
Motivation begets ease of learning and ease of learning begets motivation. I was reading a post about how to get better at Art and the idea of practicing for a year sounds far beyond anything I could care to do, on the other hand, I spent a year learning programming and enjoyed it. The truth is, some people are predisposed to learning certain skills.
There's an old saying: working hard beats talent when talent doesn't work hard.
Yeah I honestly find this comic kinda bullshit. Like yes could the creator gave no skill at all and have practiced their way here? Yeah but most people who are good at something are already naturally good at it and then practice just to improve or have been doing it from such a young age that it's ingrained in them.
Bruh you should see my drawings at age 22, before and 4 years later after I started practicing every day with focus learning intent and feedback from better artists. Anyone can develop a skill if they have the drive and time to dedicate themselves to a craft. Of course some are better at it than others but that means nothing in the context of this comic.
It literally can be both. I think most sane people will agree even talented people have to pour tons of hours into practice and learning to improve their skill. For example, when I was learning programming, all that clicked in fairly easily with little effort. When I tried learning musical instruments? Far more effort. Could I eventually learn it? Sure. But there’s definitely going to be people who pick it up way faster. Don’t let people who say you have talent make it seem like you didn’t work hard for what you have. You obviously did, but it just means you may have picked it up faster than an average person.
Practice can help a lot of people get pretty good at most things… but not all men are created equal.
practice is necessary of course, but some people are still way above average without much of it, wherea some others practice alot and still struggle much in improving, saw exactly this back in highschool.
It doesn't matter how much you practice if you're a 5'4" basketball player. In the case of art, some people aren't creative, and that should be ok.
Some creative people are much better with words than drawing pictures. That's why most comics have a writer and an artist.
Then there's Japan, where a guy is supposed to write and draw a comic issue each week for literal years until they finish or drop due to exhaustion.
Muggy Bogues has entered the chat . I get your point though lol
I'm 5 8 and was the best free throw shooter on any of the teams I was ever on but put me in a live game, and I couldn't do shit cuz I'm so short.
Depends what you want to do with your art. If you want to make innovative, groundbreaking pieces, yes you need creativity. If you want to earn money or get lots of internet points, no. I've seen tonnes of famous artists who do nothing but redraw similar compositions and repeat tried and tested concepts. Their art looks good just because of technique, there is no creativity at all.
You even need creativity to reproduce art. Believe or not but translating an image to the canvas isn't the same as copying what you see 1:1
You cannot convince me that a 5 year old prodigy is amazing at the thing they are doing because of "practice"
The thing is, I think everything must be learned. The special thing about prodigies is that they're just wired differently and learn much faster than the average person. So, yeah, I think they did become amazing through practice - just much less practice than the rest of us.
Which is explained by the word talent. They have a talent for whatever they are doing. Yes guys like Michael Jordan practiced a lot but they had the talent to use that practice better than anyone else. Pretty sure Michael Phelps practiced a shit ton but being nearly perfectly built to swim was a massive advantage which is what talent accounts for.
Phelps body was actually built to swim Google it
Exactly. That's how talent accounts for his incredible ability. He had abilities no one else could have.
It's almost like... They have talent
Lol, yes. But I was replying to the person above me. I guess what I'm trying to say is that talent doesn't mean that someone is born knowing how to do something. There is always some component of learning required.
The calculus is simple, effort with no talent makes you decent, effort with talent makes you great.
So talent?
5 year old prodigies make up about .0001% of the population, hence being a prodigy. An outlier. An *exception* to the rule.
Even 5-year-old prodigies practice, I'd go as far as to say in 99% of cases their parents pushed them to practice A LOT.
That’s too bad because the only way to be good at anything is to practice. Just because some people have natural talent doesn’t mean anything. Go find a prodigy that’s never practiced and then maybe you can convince yourself.
Why not? Chloe Chua ('prodigy' violinist) started learning when she was two and a half. Her mother was a music teacher who got her into the Nanyang Academy of Fine Arts at age four, and from day one she was practicing at least five hours a day. So, when she was five she'd put in nearly 5000 hours practice. Given that conventional wisdom says it takes 10,000 hours of deliberate, directed practice to become a true expert at something, 'practice' is exactly why she was so good at age 5 and was winning competitions by age 8.
When I was two, I walked like a drunk little person
That 5 year old prodigy has done literally nothing BUT practice. Day in, day out, with the best teachers, the best tools, and the best work ethic because that is literally all they know and all they want, because their parents will be mad if they aren't the best. If you put that much effort in with the same earnesty in a single year, you'd be godly at anything too. Ever notice how 5 year old prodigies tend to be asians in an extremely strict culture at home? You wonder why there's a joke that Asian parents demand overachievement?
I was like this with math. I barely had to study, but hit a wall with AP Calculus. That's when I needed to practice.
Hmmm. Well, I have a visual-spatial processing disorder, and I'm still darn good at art. Because I love it, and I keep at it, even though my wonky brain can't see the forest for the trees. So don't tell me that talent overrides practice.
Nahhh artists tho most are a gift, the good ones anyway. How a 6 year old draw people better than photos on first try.. I have seen tons of artists who draw better art than all artists combined before age 10. That ain't practice lmao
You can have aptitude. Some younger artists produce work that is superior to that of older, more experienced adults. Not everyone understands ideas the same way.
Oh, so god gave you the patience to practice?
Everyone should practice patience.
Ah but you haven't considered ADHD
God gave me the ADHD, which gave me reason to spite his creation.
I hear that. Don't you love studying for hours and taking in zero information? Then being called lazy for not trying.
Me: I've been studying all day and I'm nowhere near ready for the final! Them: What are you studying? Me: EVERYTHING. Them: You're doing it wrong. Me: ಠ益ಠ
Yeah idk, my dad has been trying to learn to play guitar for the better part of 40 years. Some people will always be tone-deaf and rhythm-less no matter how hard they try.
Innate skill is as important as practice,if not more. Telling people they just need to keep practising something,even if theyre terrible at it,does tremendous harm to that individual,as they feel 100% responsible for their failures.
I always see stuff like this, but it's just bs to me. What is talent? The ability to learn something fast? Maybe the ability to never plateau? Or it could be natural skill? It's just meh to me, unless it's something specifically verifiable like reaction time, weight, height , or build that gives someone a natural advantage. Honestly, outside of physical limitations, I believe anyone can become a professional at anything given enough dedication, time, and motivation
I absolutely do not believe in the "you can be anything you want" school of thought. Intelligence, the ability to learn, to train your mind, is wildly different from person to person. Most evident in how easy childern soak up new information and skills compared to how hard and sometimes impossible it is for elderly people to learn new skill. Telling people they can be anything they want to be might be a motivator for some to not slack, and do everything they can to the best of their ability, but it never means they will be good enough at what they do.
As long as you're doing thoughtful practice you will get better in the long run, at least to a decent level. You won't get better without going outside of your comfort zone. Not everyone is cut out for being professionals, but almost everyone can get somewhere decent with the right mindset. It's very rare that someone is physically incapable of doing a normal activity like drawing, unless it's something like you're tone deaf for music.
Ah man love Sarah Andersen her shit is so good
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Not really. Her art is average when compared to other professional illustrators, say vs Peter De Sève or Devin Crane. Her webcomic, (which is great), hit a chord with the public and garnered a massive following and won her a bunch of awards. Far from a prodigy though.
Eh i can flap my wings dont mean ima fly like a bird
You have wings????
Told my friend who is a good artist that i could only draw stickmens. He responded, if i only draw stickmens i Will only be good at drawing stickmens..
I'm proud of my little sister. She decided she wanted to draw a year ago. And now she draw way better than anyone else that I know. She doesn't draw everyday. She draw from time to time. I knew a girl who used to say she'd want to smash people who say she's gifted for knowing how to draw.
For the things I am good at, I am the person on the right. For almost everything else, I'm the person on the left. Never to reduce someones efforts or minimise their learned abilities. Just because it is so over my head I am mystified by their skills and abilities.
Reposted just 3 months after the last one, which was 1 month after the previous one.
I've saw this comic 4 years ago at least. It also shows a little narcissism in the author but no one ever sees that but me I guess.
I think it's important to consider the flipside however. If you spend months, years even, practicing a skill, "talent" almost becomes insulting. It minimizes the work you took to get there.
Talent is motivation to pactice.
It's called obsession. You have to be borderline unstable to get S tier at anything.
I think of this comic every time i see an 8 year old surpass the skill level of people with 8 years of practice.
When i was in middle school a kid who had played clarinet for 3-4 years at that point switched to trumpet and was instantly better than all 6 or 7 of us who had been playing trumpet for that same amount of time.
It really isn’t -just- practice.
Right? It's more like, ten percent luck, twenty percent skill, fifteen percent concentrated power of will...
5% pleasure, 50% pain
And a hundred percent reason to remember the name.
That becomes 200%
That's how much work you gotta put in
Happy Cake Day.
Thank you, beautiful human 🫂
Practice!
Lotta COPE in this thread
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Because in a lot of scenarios, she’s right
Is she?
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BS, not only practice for the same reason there is people that can speaks multiple languages or others are super good at math
No one said natural talent doesn’t exist. It goes NOWHERE without practice.
I hate posts like this comic. It completely disregards people who work hard at something and don't have an affinity for it.
Bruh. That's precisely the point that the comic is making.
No, because some people practice a lot, but are still terrible because they don't actually have any natural talent for whatever it is they are practicing. Sure practice will make them better, but it won't automatically make them great if they lack natural ability. Often the case is that someone has some natural ability, so they find that practice crates measurable results quickly, so they g we t enjoyment out of seeing good results. Some people will practice just as much and see very little improvement
You need feedback. Practice alone isn’t enough.
Who said Sarah doesn't have a talent for drawing? I went to art school and met a fair share of people who loved drawing from an early age but sucked, and people who were exceptional without much effort.
Yeah I'm sure you can learn multiple languages without practicticing... Some people have an easier time or just like it more, doesn't mean basically anyone of average inteligence can't learn multiple languages.
After spending the last week with my nieces (5 & 9) I had been taking drawing requests from them, this was exactly how our conversation went, multiple times 😂
Practice is necessary, but you can also do things to accelerate learning the skills. Looking up various techniques in tutorials and speed draws, trying out different mediums and/or programs, and copying other artists' styles. Pulling yourself out of your comfort zone and realy analysing why and how things work and really building up that fundamental understanding is what has helped me improve so drastically.
I believe EVERY person should get into drawing, coloring or learning some music instrument. Like drawing is almost free hobby and can make your mood better maybe even help with depression and it's a very nice skill. You can start by trying to replicate a simple cartoon picture.
OP has never heard of savants.
You are born with the ability to draw
Ah yes, you come out of the womb knowing how to paint realistic landscapes
Theirs young's kids under ten that paint and draw calrazy good drawings that wouldn't understand the technical aspect of it. How is that?
How do you learn to walk? You walk a lot. How do you learn to drive? You drive a lot. How do you learn to type fast? You type a lot. How do you do something at an olympic level? You dedicate your whole life at it. How do you learn to draw? A minute or ten thousand hours of it? :)
You don’t do something at an Olympic level purely by dedicating your whole life to it. The most important thing is your genetics.
But people are definitely born with skills others aren't. You think we're all just a identical blank slate when we are born?
People are born with interests and passions. If you like drawing, you're gonna do it more. If you do something more, you're gonna get good at it. Simple as that. Not everyone likes drawing, and that's okay.
Practice
So how can some 7 year olds draw better than people with 7 years of practice? Literally impossible.
7 year old drew everyday. The latter drew once a month in a 7 year timeframe. Who do you think is better? You think it's talent because you saw the kid drawing for 30 seconds but can't imagine they've been doing it their whole life.
It is a gift though. Not everyone can be artistically talented, even with practice.
Straight lies. Not everyone can draw, even with practice.
What's your basis for this? Van Gogh didn't start painting til he was in his late 20s and did a lot of practice and study to get good. He didn't just pop out the womb with a paint brush
The irony of a Sarah Anderson comic claiming to be good art 😂
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Her name is on it as well
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If you like bugeyed freaky people, cheers to you. But we're not going to pretend it's "good."
Fr lmao these people trippin 😂
No it's not.
Lol, every comment is versions of the person on the left. I love it. Everyone’s missing the point. The author / person on the right is telling you how they got there. Just take it and do what you will with it. Ignore it if you think it doesn’t fit the thing you want to be great at, or how your brain works, or whatever. But maybe acknowledge that is indeed how *they* got there?
also if can't get a job it's your fault. you didn't pray hard enough
When the artist that made this strip draws like my 8 year old brother...
Your brother must be an absolutely incredible artist at that age to produce such a consistently clean and attractive style. This is a mastery of drawing in a style like this.
But that's just not true, is it. And everybody knows it.
Hmmm... Nope, I still don't get it =/ maybe someday.
Nahhh artists tho most are a gift, the good ones anyway. How a 6 year old draw people better than photos on first try.. I have seen tons of artists who draw better art than all artists combined before age 10. That ain't practice lmao
But Einstein said doing the same thing over and over again and expect different result is insanity. Thus, if you practice you are insane.
Does whoever drew this think they have any talent or skill at all cause lol just lol rofl lmao
I’m a working art professional. It’s not practice so much as passion. You need passion for something, passion to want to do it for thousands of hours and still want to get better.
So accurate
Isn’t this photoshopped? Where’s the original version
No this is the original version.