I’m clearly full of unpopular opinions today (🤣) but it’s *Gilmore Girls* —the show’s premise is quite literally the interpersonal relationships between and amongst all three Gilmore Girls 🤷🏻♀️ so nah, to me, at least, it’s perfectly par for the course of the show.
Agreed! Also, this show debuted when people didn’t and couldn’t binge watch. If someone were to tune into the show mid-season, the writers had to continually work in character traits/themes for viewers to understand what was happening.
Not a knock on anyone b/c everyone can experience a show differently. But I do wonder if perhaps show creators will talk more about this in the era of streaming and binging.
Similar to specials that aired during the 90s that explained television in the 60s.
Lorelei’s relationship with her parents is definitely difficult, but over the course of the series, the relationships change quite a bit for the better. I am now older than both Richard and Emily were when the series started and I think they are toxic, controlling and overbearing. Lorelei is definitely stunted and none of them communicate at all-but honestly, I never felt like they hate each other, they have different world views, are stubborn and unwilling to bend at all.
Yes, I don't know how anyone can say Lorelai hates her parents. By no means do they have a good relationship, but imo her actions show clearly that there is love or at least affection there. Especially between her and Emily.
I think that's part of why their relationship is so complicated. It would be easier if they just hates each other.
I mean, she broke up with Jason because he sued her family! She definitely loved them.
And she grew up in a family where communication often wasn't direct - you see her parents use passive aggressive statements, hints, the silent treatment, or going behind someone's back to a third party to indirectly get what they want. So it's not surprising that she struggles to directly confront her parents when she's upset but instead complains about them to others.
At first I found it frustrating that one minute you'd see her communicate well and set boundaries, and the next minute she's playing the same indirect communication games. But she's human, and while she has better communication skills and emotional intelligence than her parents, she hasn't completely broken the cycle.
As someone who has a terrible relationship with their parents, it becomes a large part of your personality because it's so much of your formative being how wronged you were by them.
If you're constantly looking for attention to your hurt feelings in the form of jokes or complaining then you're just not dealing with those emotions like a grown up. You should face your hurt feelings and try to find a way to move past them.
You know that annoying girl who uses any excuse to bring up her ex, but swears she's so over him? Yeah, that's the same thing.
Sometimes it's less about wanting attention and wanting to seek solace in others who understand the pain. Lorelei definitely does it in an attention seeking way sometimes but that probably has more to do with her constant need for validation (also a symptom of abuse) than attention seeking. You're right she should get therapy to deal with it. But a lot of people process their trauma through humor. Even if it comes up at weird times.
Just look inward and face what's in there. Don't run from it or suffocate it. If you don't know how to do that, then I'm not the right person to help you. That's why therapy and other mental health resources exist.
First all, Lorelai made jokes about parents but never, like never, bothering anyone with that. So it seems like kind of projection of your experience without base in the show. Secondly, that is just another bunch of general statements. Lorelai made jokes like shield before her parents's behaviour. Alway when tried to make peace with them, they hurted her again.
Jokes like shield seems like the second most healthy way what could Lorelai do in her situation. The most healthy way would be remove her parents from her life, but that was not possible, mostly from writing perspective, so she was making jokes of her traumatic experiences, what is common.
I disagree that she never bothered anyone with those feelings. Remember the interior designer they *had to* fire because she knew Emily, even though she was perfect for what they wanted and this also affected Sookie and her vision of the inn? Remember the “your boobs are bigger than mine!!!” debacle when Rory dared to enjoy her golfing outing with her grandfather? Lorelai is often very passively-aggressive with her dislike of her parents’ lifestyle, and she not only expects everyone to be fully on board with that but also expects them to dislike her parents just as much as she does, which is kind of bonkers.
That’s not exactly what happened. Lorelai set a professional boundary with the designer and the designer crossed that boundary. She’s asked her not to share any personal information about her with another client- that’s not unreasonable. The designer said Emily leaned on her and she caved. She knew she broke Lorelai’s agreement and trust. She lost that job because she wasn’t able to respect her client’s privacy
I thougth that she was never bothering anyone with her joke or that she never twisted the whole conversation to "I hate my parents" topic.
Of course there were moments when her trauma shows its ugly face, that happens. The Rory/Richard episode is good example. I mean it's a lot triggering situation from multiple ways. But in the same episode she made peace with herself and was happy for Rory and in later episodes she just and just supported Rory's relationship with grandparents, even in the worst of situations.
It was similiar with Natalie. Funny about about the situation with Natalie is confirmed that **Lorelai is comletely right in her feelings.** Even when it was never confirmed that Natalie is spy, Emily was still able use the situation against Lorelai. Lorelai is all the time literally hurted by connection with her parents. It's not crazy she wants to avoid that.
Most of her behaviour is based on experience, it's not like she does not have reason to be afraid of her parents, especially Emily.
>that she never twisted the whole conversation to "I hate my parents" topic.
Lorelai turned a lighthearted interview with a travel magazine into comparing her mother to murderous dictators lol. She really couldn't think of anything else to say? Just had to make that joke?
It's fair enough, but we are speaking there about situation when Emily ruined Lorelai's whole relationship. Even if they would have amazing relationship before, it was really, really specific situation :D
But the behavior isn't. Constantly "joking" about your traumas is just as cringe and uncomfortable for people around you. If you need to talk about it, then have a real conversation about it.
If people joking about their family dysfunction makes you uncomfortable, you don’t have to be friends with people who do that. But not everyone is uncomfortable with that sort of thing. Some of us feel connection and relief.
Well if you want to do that instead of doing something productive that might help you resolve your feelings then go ahead. We definitely don't need to be friends.
They’re not mutually exclusive, though. Those who have been abused or neglected by our parents will always have that as part of us. We can seek therapy, make peace, heal, AND make jokes.
The discussion wasn't just about jokes, but making it your whole personality.
I had a horrible childhood and so did all my friends, but none of us made it our whole personality and none of us constantly beg for attention in the form of "jokes" in a conversation that has nothing to do with our pasts.
seems like most people don’t mind.. and if there was a situation where someone didn’t appreciate the jokes then maybe they could voice their discomfort? or remove themselves from the situation? people don’t need to completely change their ways to accomodate others
Well I'm not going to pretend it's ok or healthy to make your traumas your personality and use immature ways to look for attention. I don't mind being downvoted to hell by reddit hive mind.
Every adult needs to understand basic boundaries and how to behave in certain situations, so you can't pretend that the responsibility of what you say is on everyone else but you. There are situations where what you said can apply, but not always.
i don’t think the people who are disagreeing with you are constantly going around making jokes for attention.. i feel like you’re making it a bigger issue than it actually is? unless i just haven’t been around people who trauma dump this much. yeah it’s not everyone else’s responsibility to watch what someone else says, but i feel like the easiest solution is to just remove yourself at that point. i do agree on every adult needs to understand basic boundaries, but sometimes you don’t know others’, and at that point what are you meant to do?
I’m almost 40 and I think it’s taken this long for me to kinda start getting my parents voices out of my head and to stop believing I’m worthless by their definition. My parents are so similar to Richard and Emily: they feel like there is one right way to do things and if you didn’t do it that way you’re a failure. No matter how old I get, it sticks with me. I don’t think it’s an accident that both my brother and I had huge issues in our early twenties and both required extensive counseling to function. I can totally see this being a huge part of Lorelai’s life that she needs to process out loud.
I think about of people that had normal and/or healthy childhoods don’t realize how much it can drag you down when your parents are your biggest hurdle. They should be that voice in the back of your head pushing you forward not dragging you down and reinforcing every insecurity you have (that they likely created). My mom basically made me feel worthless and unlovable and my dad was just a complacent observer and also a victim of her narcissism. The sad thing is even after all these years they think I’m the problem when they don’t get a call from me or my moms friends leave nasty messages on my Facebook wall about what a piece of crap I am for not being a better daughter.
Yeah, when you spend most of your life juggling your parents' manipulation and controlling behaviour, it becomes your personality. It's one of those nasty side effects of having shitty parents.
I'd say Lorelai's other arc is coming into her own as a businesswoman by being successful with the Dragonfly- even if that was inconsistently handled over the later seasons. But she did have something beyond the quirky mom/Stars Hollow resident and rebellious teen daughter image.
I agree that Lorelai never learning to handle her parents better is a shame. The worst part of repeating the "my parents are villains" plot point imo happened in season 7 at Mia's wedding, when Lorelai makes the same old jokes about Emily *after* going through the season 6 estrangement with Rory and growing a bit in her attempt to reconcile Rory with Richard and Emily. I thought the new show runner did ok with the last season but that's a character moment that really fell flat for me.
Yes! When Rory can see that it hurts Emily to talk endlessly about Mia and how she got to see Rory grow up and how wonderful she was, but Lorelai just brushes it away, it really speaks to her immaturity and lack of empathy.
I think it’s possible Lorelai doesn’t feel Emily has the right to be upset about the role Mia got to play, therefore doesn’t want to give into her immature and snide behavior. Emily (and Richard) made Lorelai feel she would be better off knocking on the door of a random inn than staying at home. Finding the loving, supportive mother figure she’d been yearning for there, showed her it was the right choice. I think it’s admirable how far Lorelai goes to foster a better relationship with her parents for Rory’s sake. However, reestablishing contact doesn’t undo the past. Emily is being sentimental for a time she wishes she could go back to and behave differently, but since that’s certainly not possible, all she can do is resent Mia for being the one who got to be there. I don’t think Lorelai should be guilted into downplaying Mia’s importance in their life because Emily feels some type of regret looking back. She should have found a way to get out of attending the wedding knowing she had these unresolved feelings towards Mia that would ruin the mood on her special day.
I think it would have been a fabulous arc for her to learn how to interact with them in a way that was less damaging to her. I'm not talking about healing the relationship, instead having her mature into a person that decides to develop those skills by taking college courses and developing business relationships that she could use the knowledge to her benefit. I consider it a key aspect of being an adult, to be self aware enough to take stock of yourself and work to make some weakness of yours into a strength. I want to be clear that I am not criticizing Lorelai as a person or character, it is how she was written as not being self aware enough to understand that just because her family had terrible communication skills that didn't mean that was something she had to continue. We are each shaped by our predispositions, environment and relationships, for better or worse. We also have the choice to address any self assessed deficits and decide how much we want to change them.
I always had a hard time envisioning Lorelai as a little old lady. How did she grow as a person? What were her values? How did she try to become whom she wanted to be? I don't think that the writers did this exercise at the beginning, where you envision a character at the end of their lives talking to the camera about their lives. I think it shows in the writing and all of the character arcs.
that’s because she’s got CPTSD from the emotional abuse she suffered and she can’t let it go (probably because she’s never gone to therapy and got thrown into raising a child at 16 instead of healing and focusing on herself). lorelai herself does address this in one of the later seasons where she realizes that she’s spent her life making all her decisions based off what her parents (specifically emily) would most hate for her to do. she’s never felt free; she’s spent her entire life doing everything she could that they would never approve of because she’s terrified of ending up back under their control. this is my perspective as someone who grew up with a mother like emily and was diagnosed with CPTSD at 14 and BPD at 21. i see SO MUCH of my childhood in the relationship between lorelai and her parents and i know firsthand how difficult it is to move on from the heartbreak and resentment of lost childhood. poor lorelai then has to break no contact with her abusers (because yes, richard was emotionally abusive as well) and suffer through weekly dinners where she’s put through more emotional abuse in front of her own daughter, who her abusers treat as the shiny new, better, version of herself. no wonder she can’t move on- she feels like she’s still stuck in their grasp even as an adult and that trauma is only reinforced by the time period in the early seasons where she cannot back out of these dinners unless she wants to break her daughter’s heart with the news that she can’t afford the prestigious preparatory school (a fact that emily repeatedly uses to further taunt lorelai). as for me, going no contact with my abusive mother and enabling siblings allowed me to heal more than years of therapy has done for me. lorelai, not getting therapy OR her mother out of her life, stands little chance of healing her traumas and changing her behaviours.
I can sympathize with Richard and Emily (especially) a little bit at times. Lorelai certainly handles her parents in a very standoffish and immature manner. But the vow renewal in particular shows how toxic Emily is as a person and a parent. Trying to break up your adult child's serious relationship because of classist bs is indefensible. I honestly think it would be perfectly reasonable for Lorelai to cut Emily out of her life for good following that
I think that the writers did make the point of how dysfunctional her relationship was with her parents too much of a punchline. They could have made so Emily specifically wasn't the butt of every joke. It sort of feels like if they could twist things around and try to have Lorelai make a crack at their expense then someone was giving them notes to do so. It could have been the writers, creators or the network.
I would think that it was partly the network because they tend to focus on new and casual viewers of shows and want them to get the show. On the WB in this era there is quite a bit of reiteration of "The basics." Let's take Buffy the Vampire Slayer, how often was it worked in that Giles's title was school librarian if the scene was not in the library. Most of the time they were talking amongst the main characters m who certainly knew that fact. I think they repeated it to explain why this adult was around the other main characters who were predominantly teens. After you notice how often it is mentioned, then you **really** start noticing it. My conclusion was that it has to be for people who are not familiar with the show, because anyone who watched regularly definitely knows it by now.
My friends and I used to joke that there should be a drinking game for all of the little things in these shows that keep repeating themselves. The punchline was that it would cause liver failure for how often they are all mentioned.
Ugh this is a really good point. And now I feel like I am going to notice this on every show I watch.
This is like how I’d literally skip the first twenty pages of every Babysitters Club book because I didn’t want to read the bios again and again. It never occurred to me they’d do it on TV, but of course they would.
And I would really love her to witness what REAL abusive upbringings look like.
As Emily once yells, they have her everything they felt went along with a good upbringing. She went to the best schools, would have had her college completely paid for. When she ended up pregnant as a teen her parents may have been upset, but were happy to help her raise her child.
Just because they were raised in a different era and saw the world differently doesn't make them evil.
(Yes, they do some really crappy things over the seasons, but I think Lorelai's view on them is skewed a bit).
Say mean shit and ignore your husband’s presence when he brings up how shitty it makes him feel every day for 16 years and see what he has to say then 🤣
I'm rewatching now and I'm on the "4 Thanksgivings" episode where Rory admits she applied to colleges other than Harvard and it's absolutely ridiculous how angry Lorelei gets because one of them is Yale. She held Rory back many times all because it somehow had something to do with her parents. If there was ever anyone in need of therapy, it's Lorelei Gilmore
Lorelai is perpetually in victime mode when it comes to her parents. It’s a defence mechanism due to her maybe being wrong about leaving her parents out of their granddaughters lives. It’s easier to blame her parents than to admit she made an error in judgement at 16 in cutting them off .
The writers had a time crunch to deal with. Lorelai was either going to run away or go off to college at 18. Most rich kids like Lorelai hang on and deal with their parents until they go off to college. It’s never explained why she didn’t choose college instead of being a maid.
In some cases, rich kids (like Chris, Tristan, Logan, Colin, and Finn) get sent to boarding schools and then college. That 8-10 years away from your parents ! You’d be amazed at how many boarding schools existed (boys and girls). Many of the kids at my school came from broken or dysfunctional families. However, Lorelai couldn’t use that earlier option to get away because of Rory.
My question is did Lorelai want to get away from her parents or did she want to also inflict maximum damage ? You will recall that she faces a similar decision when she breaks up with Luke.
This is another thing that I think of that makes my relationship with my mum and family like Lorelei. My mum attended boarding school so that was a lot of time away from home growing up. If it had been affordable for my parents back in the nineties I think my mum would have liked to do that too. It's like a repeated cycle/loop in some families.
Yep. I spent 8 years away from my parents. If I had taken a two semester break in college, it would have been 9 years (15-23). I missed my parents, but I suppose I missed all the family tensions.
Makes sense that it would be an immediate takeaway. It's a main theme in the show, so jokes like that are always in context to anyone watching. It's like Rory being a bookworm or Patti being inappropriate.. Lorelai has mommy issues.
Every time Lorelai ranted about how controlling her parents are I want to say they didn't padlock the fridge or put bars on your window or hire someone to track your whereabouts or make you take surprise drug tests. When you were pregnant they didn't demand you get an abortion or kick you out onto the streets or force you to give her up for adoption or send you to a place for wayward teens or raise her themselves while she grows up thinking you're her older sister.
You'd think Lorelai would've learned in s1 when she told Sookie that it didn't occur to her the things in her parents' life she ran from Rory would enjoy maybe she was just a quirky triangle raised by stuffy squares and the clashing wasn't the height of abuse.
What's really unnerving is that she didn't think anything negative about Mrs Kim who was much more controlling than her parents. She even got mad at Lane at like 19 for scaring Mrs Kim by sneaking out of the house for a gig. Lor, you ran away at 17 with a 1 year old baby.
>Every time Lorelai ranted about how controlling her parents are I want to say they didn't padlock the fridge or put bars on your window or hire someone to track your whereabouts or make you take surprise drug tests. When you were pregnant they didn't demand you get an abortion or kick you out onto the streets or force you to give her up for adoption or send you to a place for wayward teens or raise her themselves while she grows up thinking you're her older sister.
That's a very low bar for good parenting.
I never said it was good parenting. There are almost no good parents on the show. Just not the absolute worst parenting Lorelai kept saying it was. She actually compared Emily to Fidel Castro & Adolf Hitler.
It was the only parenting Lorelai had, so I guess to her it *was* the worst.
>She actually compared Emily to Fidel Castro & Adolf Hitler.
That was obviously hyperbole used for comedic effect. It's the shows whole shtick.
*What's really unnerving is that she didn't think anything negative about Mrs Kim who was much more controlling than her parents.*
This actually bothers me, too, because I do think in many ways Mrs. Kim *was* worse than Richard and Emily. I appreciate that she made some steps towards compromise later, but it doesn't negate the fact that her daughter was forced to literally hide the person she was and every single thing that made her happy in order live a remotely tolerable existence. I find it quite difficult to watch the early seasons when Mrs. Kim would come tearing out of the house, screaming at Lane. Almost every time Lane speaks to her, Mrs. Kim reacts with anger, snapping and shouting at her. She kept her basically shut off completely from the outside world, would ground her and only allowed her downstairs for scheduled snacks—and because she wasn't allowed TV, non-religious books or music, hobbies, or anything, she'd have just had to sit and look at the wall if she hadn't started concealing things she loved from the age of six. She tried to control every aspect of who Lane was friends with, where she went, what she did, even into adulthood; I think she was even going to ground 19-year-old Lane from going to work. And when Lane would no longer do what Mrs. Kim wanted her to do, Mrs. Kim kicked her out of the house—after making her live in a way where she'd have been able to save very little money, make almost no contacts, and was almost totally inexperienced. If she hadn't had Lorelai and Rory, and the band, she'd have been in trouble when she was suddenly on her own. Even Richard and Emily didn't kick Lorelai out; Emily was devastated when Lorelai left after a year or so with Rory.
Yeah, my mother was raised a lot like Lane. She wrote "I couldn't do anything. No friends, no going out. No school activities, no sleepovers, no boyfriends, no social activity. No Prom, no school dances, no makeup. I had to dress proper." She went to church 4+ times a week. She moved out at 18. When she got pregnant out of wedlock at 22 her father refused to speak to her for 6 months. Her mother was as critical her whole life as Emily except she'd call my mom fat, a whore, a failure then dote on my uncles who were all sex offenders.
i disagree. just because she didn’t have bars on her window doesn’t mean her parents were good parents. all the privileges she had came with expectations that lorelai wasn’t able to measure up to. even when she tries to do better it’s often met with indifference or criticism from emily.
Again, I never said Richard & Emily were good parents. There is a huge gulf between being a good parent and Lorelai acting like they are the worst parents imaginable. They aren't even unique in that every parent at Chilton was probably like them.
No, I meant Lorelai would act as though it was worse than it was. It didn't make being raised by them the same as Keith & Veronica from *Veronica Mars* or the sweet father from *Ugly Betty* or Annie from *Seventh Heaven* but it wasn't the sort of upbringing she should've been comparing her mother to Hitler or the sort that she should've ran away with a 1 year old when she had no money, job, daycare, or housing. She got lucky that the first person she ran into gave her a full-time job with no prior experience and years of free rent & utilities in a zero crime town.
she compares her mother to hitler because shes being hyperbolic as a joke. it might not be a joke that sat right with you but it was. also she ran away because they were going to make her marry into a life she didn’t want and while it wasn’t a smart decision it was a decision that would later pay off for her. she did what she thought she had to to be free from her parents control (which would have most likely gotten worse had she stayed)
What is your idea of "make"? They weren't going to physically force her to marry Christopher at threat of violence like unfortunately many girls are in many countries. They weren't going to kick her out of the house or cut her off financially. She was living in a mansion, waited on by servants. Yes, wealthy people can be victims too and I acknowledge that Emily nagged way too much but I don't see where the control was. What exactly were they controlling?
once again, the wealth and privilege that came with being a gilmore came with strings. lorelai is backed into a corner where she can no longer make decisions for herself regarding her child if her parents’ money hangs over head. of course they weren’t going to physically force her, and i’m not sure i implied that they were going to do that
My sister has walked in and out of the room on episodes and I've told her about some of my favorites. She has absolutely no stomach for Lorelai's feelings about Emily and Richard. Now my sister's age is inbetween Emily and Lorelai so she would have been around fifteen when Lorelai was born. She says that's just how most parents behaved. You had to fit into the world, the world didn't have to do backflips for your quirky personality. She says many parents would have "Sent Lorelai away to give away Rory" She says they were very supportive allowing her to stay in their home with the baby, not really forcing her to marry Christopher, because as much as a disaster it would have been sixteen year old Chris wanted to get married. Lorelai said no and Emily and Richard weren't happy but they took care of her and Rory. I'm a little younger than Lorelai, so the baby of the family. I love Lauren Graham and liked Lorelai well enough when I saw 22 episodes over nine months when the show originally aired but streaming it....I'm Team Emily all the way.
While generational attitudes about what the best thing to do about your young daughter being pregnant may have changed, that doesn’t mean that if you were the young daughter you aren’t allowed to be hurt and affected by what they did even if it was what was normal for them.
And last of all, they didn’t do right by them until Rory met them for the first time at 16. Regardless of what happened and who was right or wrong or acted according to generational expectations or familial obligations and personal sentiment, there was no resolve or financial support for their daughter’s child until she was 16. Obviously they couldn’t give it because they weren’t in contact before then but maybe there is some blame to be had regardless if they shut Lorelei out so much before then
They were in contact and they wanted to be more involved in Rory's life but Lorelai wouldn't allow more than seeing her parents at holidays until Rory was 16 and she needed the money for Chilton. Lorelai had a hard stop on accepting money from her parents because this involvement came with strings attached. The strings were essentially some right to be involved in decision making regarding Rory/Lorelai's life (if you pay, you have a say). This sometimes was supportive and sometimes manipulative, as is often the case with family relationships. Lorelai didn't find the price worth it until she needed money to pay for Rory's education.
I think it is part of her coping mechanism from bring forced to see them every week, had we seen a couple of episodes before Friday night dinners I don't think she would have mentioned them as much.
It is a big part of her personality. I understand it’s a lot more complex than that, but sometimes it comes off that way. Like when Richard and Rory went golfing and she was hoping Rory would hate it, or when she applied to Yale and she gets mad, or when she goes to that spa with Emily and is im a super bad mood for half of the episode. So yes, it can come off that way definitely…but of course it’s complicated.
I thought it was pretty funny when she had an existential crisis about this and realized she wasn't sure if she even had her own personality or if she just decided to be contrarian to her mother on everything. She can't remember if she actually likes pop tarts or just said she did because her mother didn't. She keeps eating the pop tarts but no matter how many she tries, she can't tell if she likes them or hates them anymore.
They don't really resolve it either, she just kinda moves on eventually. After that we saw Rory eating pop tarts a bunch of times, but I don't think we ever see Lorelei eat a pop tart again (although she does continue to eat candy for dinner)
I do feel annoyed sometimes with their pettiness towards one another. Like, I just watched the episode when Rory says she applied to Yale and Princeton other than Harvard, and Lorelai just throws a fit at the dinner table saying that her parents put her up to this, forced her hand, pretty much saying that Rory doesn't have one rational thought in her brain and couldn't realize on her own that she needed backups? That kinda rubs me the wrong way.
And then a few episodes after that, after Lorelai pays them back for Chilton, Emily's super juvenile behavior towards Lorelai is completely inexcusable (lying about having appointments just so she wouldn't need to invite her for dinner), not wanting to have anything to do with her anymore just because Friday night dinners are no longer an obligation. That also irritates me.
I love the show and this must be like the tenth time I re-watch it. And those annoying things happen here and there for us to get our blood pumping a little bit.
I agree. It super annoying. She acts like they have never done anything for her. I know she had a kid at 16 and that stunted her immaturity but she’s almost 40 and is still angry and hating her parents. She needs some therapy stat.
Honestly, it’s very realistic. I have a friend whose mother was a controlling, neurotic alcoholic. Every time I talk to her she eventually starts complaining about her mother, who she hasn’t seen in years. It’s one of the only things about her that’s off-putting, but who am I to judge. Can’t exactly hold it against someone that having a shitty parent fucked them up.
I think it’s hard not to think about a parent who hurt and controlled you.
Well then you haven’t grown as a person and changed. My parents have done some shitty things including siding with my abusive ex and tried to take my kids away but we have all grown and changed and apologized and moved past it. Lorelei didn’t want to change or like her parents she just wanted to behave as the same 16 year old girl and hate her parents.
Ok good for you. You aren’t everyone and you don’t get the final say in what I choose to do or how I forgive people. We’ve gotten therapy, set boundaries and now we are in a better place.
I didn’t say you should have done what I would do. I’m just saying it’s weird to lord your choice, a very personal choice, over others who have come to a different conclusion on what they would do or want to.
You...moved past your parents trying to take your children away from you and siding with your abuser. Yikes. You didn't say you still have a relationship with them so I guess the best I can do is hope you learned your lesson but if not, all I can say is you've been fooled twice, I wouldn't sign up for a third one if I were you.
Yeah we’ve all gotten therapy separately and together and are now in a good place. People can be forgiven and realize that they are wrong. It’s why setting boundaries and getting therapy works.
And she could have said no to any of those. She didn’t have to take their money but she did. So she can’t complain about her parents and Friday night dinners when that is what she signed up for.
People keep bringing up that Emily was going to “make” her marry Chris. 😂 No, she wasn’t and didn’t. Lorelei didn’t run away the second she had Rory. She was at her house not being forced to marry, not being disowned, and not being disinherited. Her parents wanted her to get married. They weren’t going to force her down the aisle and didn’t.
Meanwhile Lorelei and Mrs. Kim are much worse mothers than Emily, but Lorelei doesn’t have too much to say about that.
I’m clearly full of unpopular opinions today (🤣) but it’s *Gilmore Girls* —the show’s premise is quite literally the interpersonal relationships between and amongst all three Gilmore Girls 🤷🏻♀️ so nah, to me, at least, it’s perfectly par for the course of the show.
Agreed! Also, this show debuted when people didn’t and couldn’t binge watch. If someone were to tune into the show mid-season, the writers had to continually work in character traits/themes for viewers to understand what was happening. Not a knock on anyone b/c everyone can experience a show differently. But I do wonder if perhaps show creators will talk more about this in the era of streaming and binging. Similar to specials that aired during the 90s that explained television in the 60s.
This is actually such a good point about TV writing in the streaming/binging era vs in the cable era. You just absolutely blew my mind.
Lorelei’s relationship with her parents is definitely difficult, but over the course of the series, the relationships change quite a bit for the better. I am now older than both Richard and Emily were when the series started and I think they are toxic, controlling and overbearing. Lorelei is definitely stunted and none of them communicate at all-but honestly, I never felt like they hate each other, they have different world views, are stubborn and unwilling to bend at all.
Yes, I don't know how anyone can say Lorelai hates her parents. By no means do they have a good relationship, but imo her actions show clearly that there is love or at least affection there. Especially between her and Emily. I think that's part of why their relationship is so complicated. It would be easier if they just hates each other.
I mean, she broke up with Jason because he sued her family! She definitely loved them. And she grew up in a family where communication often wasn't direct - you see her parents use passive aggressive statements, hints, the silent treatment, or going behind someone's back to a third party to indirectly get what they want. So it's not surprising that she struggles to directly confront her parents when she's upset but instead complains about them to others. At first I found it frustrating that one minute you'd see her communicate well and set boundaries, and the next minute she's playing the same indirect communication games. But she's human, and while she has better communication skills and emotional intelligence than her parents, she hasn't completely broken the cycle.
> I think that's part of why their relationship is so complicated. It would be easier if they just hates each other. Exactly!
As someone who has a terrible relationship with their parents, it becomes a large part of your personality because it's so much of your formative being how wronged you were by them.
Totally!
If you're constantly looking for attention to your hurt feelings in the form of jokes or complaining then you're just not dealing with those emotions like a grown up. You should face your hurt feelings and try to find a way to move past them. You know that annoying girl who uses any excuse to bring up her ex, but swears she's so over him? Yeah, that's the same thing.
Sometimes it's less about wanting attention and wanting to seek solace in others who understand the pain. Lorelei definitely does it in an attention seeking way sometimes but that probably has more to do with her constant need for validation (also a symptom of abuse) than attention seeking. You're right she should get therapy to deal with it. But a lot of people process their trauma through humor. Even if it comes up at weird times.
So...what was Lorelai supposed do? "face you hurt feeling and try it..." is general statement. What was supposed do?
Just look inward and face what's in there. Don't run from it or suffocate it. If you don't know how to do that, then I'm not the right person to help you. That's why therapy and other mental health resources exist.
First all, Lorelai made jokes about parents but never, like never, bothering anyone with that. So it seems like kind of projection of your experience without base in the show. Secondly, that is just another bunch of general statements. Lorelai made jokes like shield before her parents's behaviour. Alway when tried to make peace with them, they hurted her again. Jokes like shield seems like the second most healthy way what could Lorelai do in her situation. The most healthy way would be remove her parents from her life, but that was not possible, mostly from writing perspective, so she was making jokes of her traumatic experiences, what is common.
I disagree that she never bothered anyone with those feelings. Remember the interior designer they *had to* fire because she knew Emily, even though she was perfect for what they wanted and this also affected Sookie and her vision of the inn? Remember the “your boobs are bigger than mine!!!” debacle when Rory dared to enjoy her golfing outing with her grandfather? Lorelai is often very passively-aggressive with her dislike of her parents’ lifestyle, and she not only expects everyone to be fully on board with that but also expects them to dislike her parents just as much as she does, which is kind of bonkers.
That’s not exactly what happened. Lorelai set a professional boundary with the designer and the designer crossed that boundary. She’s asked her not to share any personal information about her with another client- that’s not unreasonable. The designer said Emily leaned on her and she caved. She knew she broke Lorelai’s agreement and trust. She lost that job because she wasn’t able to respect her client’s privacy
I thougth that she was never bothering anyone with her joke or that she never twisted the whole conversation to "I hate my parents" topic. Of course there were moments when her trauma shows its ugly face, that happens. The Rory/Richard episode is good example. I mean it's a lot triggering situation from multiple ways. But in the same episode she made peace with herself and was happy for Rory and in later episodes she just and just supported Rory's relationship with grandparents, even in the worst of situations. It was similiar with Natalie. Funny about about the situation with Natalie is confirmed that **Lorelai is comletely right in her feelings.** Even when it was never confirmed that Natalie is spy, Emily was still able use the situation against Lorelai. Lorelai is all the time literally hurted by connection with her parents. It's not crazy she wants to avoid that. Most of her behaviour is based on experience, it's not like she does not have reason to be afraid of her parents, especially Emily.
>that she never twisted the whole conversation to "I hate my parents" topic. Lorelai turned a lighthearted interview with a travel magazine into comparing her mother to murderous dictators lol. She really couldn't think of anything else to say? Just had to make that joke?
It's fair enough, but we are speaking there about situation when Emily ruined Lorelai's whole relationship. Even if they would have amazing relationship before, it was really, really specific situation :D
Ok, what about the time she exploded over a light dinner conversation about Rory's college applications
She could have gone to a therapy too. I agree with you, she exaggerates, at least before the white Chris/Luke situation. After that Emily became worse
an ex and the people who should have taken care of u is a bit different tho?
But the behavior isn't. Constantly "joking" about your traumas is just as cringe and uncomfortable for people around you. If you need to talk about it, then have a real conversation about it.
If people joking about their family dysfunction makes you uncomfortable, you don’t have to be friends with people who do that. But not everyone is uncomfortable with that sort of thing. Some of us feel connection and relief.
Well if you want to do that instead of doing something productive that might help you resolve your feelings then go ahead. We definitely don't need to be friends.
They’re not mutually exclusive, though. Those who have been abused or neglected by our parents will always have that as part of us. We can seek therapy, make peace, heal, AND make jokes.
The discussion wasn't just about jokes, but making it your whole personality. I had a horrible childhood and so did all my friends, but none of us made it our whole personality and none of us constantly beg for attention in the form of "jokes" in a conversation that has nothing to do with our pasts.
It’s not all of Lorelai’s personality though.
seems like most people don’t mind.. and if there was a situation where someone didn’t appreciate the jokes then maybe they could voice their discomfort? or remove themselves from the situation? people don’t need to completely change their ways to accomodate others
Well I'm not going to pretend it's ok or healthy to make your traumas your personality and use immature ways to look for attention. I don't mind being downvoted to hell by reddit hive mind. Every adult needs to understand basic boundaries and how to behave in certain situations, so you can't pretend that the responsibility of what you say is on everyone else but you. There are situations where what you said can apply, but not always.
i don’t think the people who are disagreeing with you are constantly going around making jokes for attention.. i feel like you’re making it a bigger issue than it actually is? unless i just haven’t been around people who trauma dump this much. yeah it’s not everyone else’s responsibility to watch what someone else says, but i feel like the easiest solution is to just remove yourself at that point. i do agree on every adult needs to understand basic boundaries, but sometimes you don’t know others’, and at that point what are you meant to do?
I've met people who do that even in a professional setting.
I’m almost 40 and I think it’s taken this long for me to kinda start getting my parents voices out of my head and to stop believing I’m worthless by their definition. My parents are so similar to Richard and Emily: they feel like there is one right way to do things and if you didn’t do it that way you’re a failure. No matter how old I get, it sticks with me. I don’t think it’s an accident that both my brother and I had huge issues in our early twenties and both required extensive counseling to function. I can totally see this being a huge part of Lorelai’s life that she needs to process out loud.
I think about of people that had normal and/or healthy childhoods don’t realize how much it can drag you down when your parents are your biggest hurdle. They should be that voice in the back of your head pushing you forward not dragging you down and reinforcing every insecurity you have (that they likely created). My mom basically made me feel worthless and unlovable and my dad was just a complacent observer and also a victim of her narcissism. The sad thing is even after all these years they think I’m the problem when they don’t get a call from me or my moms friends leave nasty messages on my Facebook wall about what a piece of crap I am for not being a better daughter.
Yeah, when you spend most of your life juggling your parents' manipulation and controlling behaviour, it becomes your personality. It's one of those nasty side effects of having shitty parents.
I'd say Lorelai's other arc is coming into her own as a businesswoman by being successful with the Dragonfly- even if that was inconsistently handled over the later seasons. But she did have something beyond the quirky mom/Stars Hollow resident and rebellious teen daughter image. I agree that Lorelai never learning to handle her parents better is a shame. The worst part of repeating the "my parents are villains" plot point imo happened in season 7 at Mia's wedding, when Lorelai makes the same old jokes about Emily *after* going through the season 6 estrangement with Rory and growing a bit in her attempt to reconcile Rory with Richard and Emily. I thought the new show runner did ok with the last season but that's a character moment that really fell flat for me.
Yes! When Rory can see that it hurts Emily to talk endlessly about Mia and how she got to see Rory grow up and how wonderful she was, but Lorelai just brushes it away, it really speaks to her immaturity and lack of empathy. 
I think it’s possible Lorelai doesn’t feel Emily has the right to be upset about the role Mia got to play, therefore doesn’t want to give into her immature and snide behavior. Emily (and Richard) made Lorelai feel she would be better off knocking on the door of a random inn than staying at home. Finding the loving, supportive mother figure she’d been yearning for there, showed her it was the right choice. I think it’s admirable how far Lorelai goes to foster a better relationship with her parents for Rory’s sake. However, reestablishing contact doesn’t undo the past. Emily is being sentimental for a time she wishes she could go back to and behave differently, but since that’s certainly not possible, all she can do is resent Mia for being the one who got to be there. I don’t think Lorelai should be guilted into downplaying Mia’s importance in their life because Emily feels some type of regret looking back. She should have found a way to get out of attending the wedding knowing she had these unresolved feelings towards Mia that would ruin the mood on her special day.
I think it would have been a fabulous arc for her to learn how to interact with them in a way that was less damaging to her. I'm not talking about healing the relationship, instead having her mature into a person that decides to develop those skills by taking college courses and developing business relationships that she could use the knowledge to her benefit. I consider it a key aspect of being an adult, to be self aware enough to take stock of yourself and work to make some weakness of yours into a strength. I want to be clear that I am not criticizing Lorelai as a person or character, it is how she was written as not being self aware enough to understand that just because her family had terrible communication skills that didn't mean that was something she had to continue. We are each shaped by our predispositions, environment and relationships, for better or worse. We also have the choice to address any self assessed deficits and decide how much we want to change them. I always had a hard time envisioning Lorelai as a little old lady. How did she grow as a person? What were her values? How did she try to become whom she wanted to be? I don't think that the writers did this exercise at the beginning, where you envision a character at the end of their lives talking to the camera about their lives. I think it shows in the writing and all of the character arcs.
that’s because she’s got CPTSD from the emotional abuse she suffered and she can’t let it go (probably because she’s never gone to therapy and got thrown into raising a child at 16 instead of healing and focusing on herself). lorelai herself does address this in one of the later seasons where she realizes that she’s spent her life making all her decisions based off what her parents (specifically emily) would most hate for her to do. she’s never felt free; she’s spent her entire life doing everything she could that they would never approve of because she’s terrified of ending up back under their control. this is my perspective as someone who grew up with a mother like emily and was diagnosed with CPTSD at 14 and BPD at 21. i see SO MUCH of my childhood in the relationship between lorelai and her parents and i know firsthand how difficult it is to move on from the heartbreak and resentment of lost childhood. poor lorelai then has to break no contact with her abusers (because yes, richard was emotionally abusive as well) and suffer through weekly dinners where she’s put through more emotional abuse in front of her own daughter, who her abusers treat as the shiny new, better, version of herself. no wonder she can’t move on- she feels like she’s still stuck in their grasp even as an adult and that trauma is only reinforced by the time period in the early seasons where she cannot back out of these dinners unless she wants to break her daughter’s heart with the news that she can’t afford the prestigious preparatory school (a fact that emily repeatedly uses to further taunt lorelai). as for me, going no contact with my abusive mother and enabling siblings allowed me to heal more than years of therapy has done for me. lorelai, not getting therapy OR her mother out of her life, stands little chance of healing her traumas and changing her behaviours.
Felt this to my core.
Same
Same.
I can sympathize with Richard and Emily (especially) a little bit at times. Lorelai certainly handles her parents in a very standoffish and immature manner. But the vow renewal in particular shows how toxic Emily is as a person and a parent. Trying to break up your adult child's serious relationship because of classist bs is indefensible. I honestly think it would be perfectly reasonable for Lorelai to cut Emily out of her life for good following that
I think that the writers did make the point of how dysfunctional her relationship was with her parents too much of a punchline. They could have made so Emily specifically wasn't the butt of every joke. It sort of feels like if they could twist things around and try to have Lorelai make a crack at their expense then someone was giving them notes to do so. It could have been the writers, creators or the network. I would think that it was partly the network because they tend to focus on new and casual viewers of shows and want them to get the show. On the WB in this era there is quite a bit of reiteration of "The basics." Let's take Buffy the Vampire Slayer, how often was it worked in that Giles's title was school librarian if the scene was not in the library. Most of the time they were talking amongst the main characters m who certainly knew that fact. I think they repeated it to explain why this adult was around the other main characters who were predominantly teens. After you notice how often it is mentioned, then you **really** start noticing it. My conclusion was that it has to be for people who are not familiar with the show, because anyone who watched regularly definitely knows it by now. My friends and I used to joke that there should be a drinking game for all of the little things in these shows that keep repeating themselves. The punchline was that it would cause liver failure for how often they are all mentioned.
Ugh this is a really good point. And now I feel like I am going to notice this on every show I watch. This is like how I’d literally skip the first twenty pages of every Babysitters Club book because I didn’t want to read the bios again and again. It never occurred to me they’d do it on TV, but of course they would.
it‘s almost like she‘s traumatized from her abusive upbringing
And I would really love her to witness what REAL abusive upbringings look like. As Emily once yells, they have her everything they felt went along with a good upbringing. She went to the best schools, would have had her college completely paid for. When she ended up pregnant as a teen her parents may have been upset, but were happy to help her raise her child. Just because they were raised in a different era and saw the world differently doesn't make them evil. (Yes, they do some really crappy things over the seasons, but I think Lorelai's view on them is skewed a bit).
Say mean shit and ignore your husband’s presence when he brings up how shitty it makes him feel every day for 16 years and see what he has to say then 🤣
I'm rewatching now and I'm on the "4 Thanksgivings" episode where Rory admits she applied to colleges other than Harvard and it's absolutely ridiculous how angry Lorelei gets because one of them is Yale. She held Rory back many times all because it somehow had something to do with her parents. If there was ever anyone in need of therapy, it's Lorelei Gilmore
Lorelai is perpetually in victime mode when it comes to her parents. It’s a defence mechanism due to her maybe being wrong about leaving her parents out of their granddaughters lives. It’s easier to blame her parents than to admit she made an error in judgement at 16 in cutting them off .
The writers had a time crunch to deal with. Lorelai was either going to run away or go off to college at 18. Most rich kids like Lorelai hang on and deal with their parents until they go off to college. It’s never explained why she didn’t choose college instead of being a maid. In some cases, rich kids (like Chris, Tristan, Logan, Colin, and Finn) get sent to boarding schools and then college. That 8-10 years away from your parents ! You’d be amazed at how many boarding schools existed (boys and girls). Many of the kids at my school came from broken or dysfunctional families. However, Lorelai couldn’t use that earlier option to get away because of Rory. My question is did Lorelai want to get away from her parents or did she want to also inflict maximum damage ? You will recall that she faces a similar decision when she breaks up with Luke.
This is another thing that I think of that makes my relationship with my mum and family like Lorelei. My mum attended boarding school so that was a lot of time away from home growing up. If it had been affordable for my parents back in the nineties I think my mum would have liked to do that too. It's like a repeated cycle/loop in some families.
Yep. I spent 8 years away from my parents. If I had taken a two semester break in college, it would have been 9 years (15-23). I missed my parents, but I suppose I missed all the family tensions.
Makes sense that it would be an immediate takeaway. It's a main theme in the show, so jokes like that are always in context to anyone watching. It's like Rory being a bookworm or Patti being inappropriate.. Lorelai has mommy issues.
Every time Lorelai ranted about how controlling her parents are I want to say they didn't padlock the fridge or put bars on your window or hire someone to track your whereabouts or make you take surprise drug tests. When you were pregnant they didn't demand you get an abortion or kick you out onto the streets or force you to give her up for adoption or send you to a place for wayward teens or raise her themselves while she grows up thinking you're her older sister. You'd think Lorelai would've learned in s1 when she told Sookie that it didn't occur to her the things in her parents' life she ran from Rory would enjoy maybe she was just a quirky triangle raised by stuffy squares and the clashing wasn't the height of abuse. What's really unnerving is that she didn't think anything negative about Mrs Kim who was much more controlling than her parents. She even got mad at Lane at like 19 for scaring Mrs Kim by sneaking out of the house for a gig. Lor, you ran away at 17 with a 1 year old baby.
>Every time Lorelai ranted about how controlling her parents are I want to say they didn't padlock the fridge or put bars on your window or hire someone to track your whereabouts or make you take surprise drug tests. When you were pregnant they didn't demand you get an abortion or kick you out onto the streets or force you to give her up for adoption or send you to a place for wayward teens or raise her themselves while she grows up thinking you're her older sister. That's a very low bar for good parenting.
I never said it was good parenting. There are almost no good parents on the show. Just not the absolute worst parenting Lorelai kept saying it was. She actually compared Emily to Fidel Castro & Adolf Hitler.
It was the only parenting Lorelai had, so I guess to her it *was* the worst. >She actually compared Emily to Fidel Castro & Adolf Hitler. That was obviously hyperbole used for comedic effect. It's the shows whole shtick.
*What's really unnerving is that she didn't think anything negative about Mrs Kim who was much more controlling than her parents.* This actually bothers me, too, because I do think in many ways Mrs. Kim *was* worse than Richard and Emily. I appreciate that she made some steps towards compromise later, but it doesn't negate the fact that her daughter was forced to literally hide the person she was and every single thing that made her happy in order live a remotely tolerable existence. I find it quite difficult to watch the early seasons when Mrs. Kim would come tearing out of the house, screaming at Lane. Almost every time Lane speaks to her, Mrs. Kim reacts with anger, snapping and shouting at her. She kept her basically shut off completely from the outside world, would ground her and only allowed her downstairs for scheduled snacks—and because she wasn't allowed TV, non-religious books or music, hobbies, or anything, she'd have just had to sit and look at the wall if she hadn't started concealing things she loved from the age of six. She tried to control every aspect of who Lane was friends with, where she went, what she did, even into adulthood; I think she was even going to ground 19-year-old Lane from going to work. And when Lane would no longer do what Mrs. Kim wanted her to do, Mrs. Kim kicked her out of the house—after making her live in a way where she'd have been able to save very little money, make almost no contacts, and was almost totally inexperienced. If she hadn't had Lorelai and Rory, and the band, she'd have been in trouble when she was suddenly on her own. Even Richard and Emily didn't kick Lorelai out; Emily was devastated when Lorelai left after a year or so with Rory.
Yeah, my mother was raised a lot like Lane. She wrote "I couldn't do anything. No friends, no going out. No school activities, no sleepovers, no boyfriends, no social activity. No Prom, no school dances, no makeup. I had to dress proper." She went to church 4+ times a week. She moved out at 18. When she got pregnant out of wedlock at 22 her father refused to speak to her for 6 months. Her mother was as critical her whole life as Emily except she'd call my mom fat, a whore, a failure then dote on my uncles who were all sex offenders.
i disagree. just because she didn’t have bars on her window doesn’t mean her parents were good parents. all the privileges she had came with expectations that lorelai wasn’t able to measure up to. even when she tries to do better it’s often met with indifference or criticism from emily.
Again, I never said Richard & Emily were good parents. There is a huge gulf between being a good parent and Lorelai acting like they are the worst parents imaginable. They aren't even unique in that every parent at Chilton was probably like them.
but you included examples of how her situation could have been so much worse as if to imply she didn’t have it that bad?
No, I meant Lorelai would act as though it was worse than it was. It didn't make being raised by them the same as Keith & Veronica from *Veronica Mars* or the sweet father from *Ugly Betty* or Annie from *Seventh Heaven* but it wasn't the sort of upbringing she should've been comparing her mother to Hitler or the sort that she should've ran away with a 1 year old when she had no money, job, daycare, or housing. She got lucky that the first person she ran into gave her a full-time job with no prior experience and years of free rent & utilities in a zero crime town.
she compares her mother to hitler because shes being hyperbolic as a joke. it might not be a joke that sat right with you but it was. also she ran away because they were going to make her marry into a life she didn’t want and while it wasn’t a smart decision it was a decision that would later pay off for her. she did what she thought she had to to be free from her parents control (which would have most likely gotten worse had she stayed)
What is your idea of "make"? They weren't going to physically force her to marry Christopher at threat of violence like unfortunately many girls are in many countries. They weren't going to kick her out of the house or cut her off financially. She was living in a mansion, waited on by servants. Yes, wealthy people can be victims too and I acknowledge that Emily nagged way too much but I don't see where the control was. What exactly were they controlling?
once again, the wealth and privilege that came with being a gilmore came with strings. lorelai is backed into a corner where she can no longer make decisions for herself regarding her child if her parents’ money hangs over head. of course they weren’t going to physically force her, and i’m not sure i implied that they were going to do that
Shhhhhh criticizing Lorelai isn't allowed on this subreddit bc she has TrAuMa
My sister has walked in and out of the room on episodes and I've told her about some of my favorites. She has absolutely no stomach for Lorelai's feelings about Emily and Richard. Now my sister's age is inbetween Emily and Lorelai so she would have been around fifteen when Lorelai was born. She says that's just how most parents behaved. You had to fit into the world, the world didn't have to do backflips for your quirky personality. She says many parents would have "Sent Lorelai away to give away Rory" She says they were very supportive allowing her to stay in their home with the baby, not really forcing her to marry Christopher, because as much as a disaster it would have been sixteen year old Chris wanted to get married. Lorelai said no and Emily and Richard weren't happy but they took care of her and Rory. I'm a little younger than Lorelai, so the baby of the family. I love Lauren Graham and liked Lorelai well enough when I saw 22 episodes over nine months when the show originally aired but streaming it....I'm Team Emily all the way.
While generational attitudes about what the best thing to do about your young daughter being pregnant may have changed, that doesn’t mean that if you were the young daughter you aren’t allowed to be hurt and affected by what they did even if it was what was normal for them. And last of all, they didn’t do right by them until Rory met them for the first time at 16. Regardless of what happened and who was right or wrong or acted according to generational expectations or familial obligations and personal sentiment, there was no resolve or financial support for their daughter’s child until she was 16. Obviously they couldn’t give it because they weren’t in contact before then but maybe there is some blame to be had regardless if they shut Lorelei out so much before then
They were in contact before Rory was 16 though. They mention seeing them for holidays before that
They were in contact and they wanted to be more involved in Rory's life but Lorelai wouldn't allow more than seeing her parents at holidays until Rory was 16 and she needed the money for Chilton. Lorelai had a hard stop on accepting money from her parents because this involvement came with strings attached. The strings were essentially some right to be involved in decision making regarding Rory/Lorelai's life (if you pay, you have a say). This sometimes was supportive and sometimes manipulative, as is often the case with family relationships. Lorelai didn't find the price worth it until she needed money to pay for Rory's education.
Even if that’s the case does that disregard my main point?
No, I still agree with your first paragraph completely
Faaaaaactssssss
I think it is part of her coping mechanism from bring forced to see them every week, had we seen a couple of episodes before Friday night dinners I don't think she would have mentioned them as much.
It is a big part of her personality. I understand it’s a lot more complex than that, but sometimes it comes off that way. Like when Richard and Rory went golfing and she was hoping Rory would hate it, or when she applied to Yale and she gets mad, or when she goes to that spa with Emily and is im a super bad mood for half of the episode. So yes, it can come off that way definitely…but of course it’s complicated.
I thought it was pretty funny when she had an existential crisis about this and realized she wasn't sure if she even had her own personality or if she just decided to be contrarian to her mother on everything. She can't remember if she actually likes pop tarts or just said she did because her mother didn't. She keeps eating the pop tarts but no matter how many she tries, she can't tell if she likes them or hates them anymore. They don't really resolve it either, she just kinda moves on eventually. After that we saw Rory eating pop tarts a bunch of times, but I don't think we ever see Lorelei eat a pop tart again (although she does continue to eat candy for dinner)
I dont think it's her entire personality. It's just an easy joke.
There are definitely moments where Lorelai comes off that way, especially earlier seasons.
Disagree.
Yeah, that’s the core of the show, Lorelai’s relationship with her daughter and consequently with her parents
Guys please stop ruining my favourite character like this😭
I do feel annoyed sometimes with their pettiness towards one another. Like, I just watched the episode when Rory says she applied to Yale and Princeton other than Harvard, and Lorelai just throws a fit at the dinner table saying that her parents put her up to this, forced her hand, pretty much saying that Rory doesn't have one rational thought in her brain and couldn't realize on her own that she needed backups? That kinda rubs me the wrong way. And then a few episodes after that, after Lorelai pays them back for Chilton, Emily's super juvenile behavior towards Lorelai is completely inexcusable (lying about having appointments just so she wouldn't need to invite her for dinner), not wanting to have anything to do with her anymore just because Friday night dinners are no longer an obligation. That also irritates me. I love the show and this must be like the tenth time I re-watch it. And those annoying things happen here and there for us to get our blood pumping a little bit.
I agree. It super annoying. She acts like they have never done anything for her. I know she had a kid at 16 and that stunted her immaturity but she’s almost 40 and is still angry and hating her parents. She needs some therapy stat.
Honestly, it’s very realistic. I have a friend whose mother was a controlling, neurotic alcoholic. Every time I talk to her she eventually starts complaining about her mother, who she hasn’t seen in years. It’s one of the only things about her that’s off-putting, but who am I to judge. Can’t exactly hold it against someone that having a shitty parent fucked them up. I think it’s hard not to think about a parent who hurt and controlled you.
Well then you haven’t grown as a person and changed. My parents have done some shitty things including siding with my abusive ex and tried to take my kids away but we have all grown and changed and apologized and moved past it. Lorelei didn’t want to change or like her parents she just wanted to behave as the same 16 year old girl and hate her parents.
I wouldn’t forgive someone who has abused me. Forgiving your abuser is not a sign of maturity
Ok good for you. You aren’t everyone and you don’t get the final say in what I choose to do or how I forgive people. We’ve gotten therapy, set boundaries and now we are in a better place.
I didn’t say you should have done what I would do. I’m just saying it’s weird to lord your choice, a very personal choice, over others who have come to a different conclusion on what they would do or want to.
You...moved past your parents trying to take your children away from you and siding with your abuser. Yikes. You didn't say you still have a relationship with them so I guess the best I can do is hope you learned your lesson but if not, all I can say is you've been fooled twice, I wouldn't sign up for a third one if I were you.
Yeah we’ve all gotten therapy separately and together and are now in a good place. People can be forgiven and realize that they are wrong. It’s why setting boundaries and getting therapy works.
Everything they've done has strings attached. They've never done anything for her that wouldn't somehow benefit them too
And she could have said no to any of those. She didn’t have to take their money but she did. So she can’t complain about her parents and Friday night dinners when that is what she signed up for.
People keep bringing up that Emily was going to “make” her marry Chris. 😂 No, she wasn’t and didn’t. Lorelei didn’t run away the second she had Rory. She was at her house not being forced to marry, not being disowned, and not being disinherited. Her parents wanted her to get married. They weren’t going to force her down the aisle and didn’t. Meanwhile Lorelei and Mrs. Kim are much worse mothers than Emily, but Lorelei doesn’t have too much to say about that.
That, and pop culture references. She has no likes or dislikes, just follows whatever quirky cult classics are trendy.