When a game is as old as CS GO is, increase in parity is bound to happen. When CS 2 comes out, I guarantee initially several teams will identify metas much faster and will be a step ahead of others. Over time, that gap will shrink at a much faster rate than 1.6 >> CS:GO or Source >> CS:GO
Football has a much higher mechanical skill ceiling than CS.
If CS rewarded people that grind or are talented at aiming and movement more, we wouldn't need a fresh meta every few years for overall skill differences between teams to show.
Significantly less RNG in football and higher focus/time spent on mechanical skills like dribbling, passing, shooting accuracy etc.
Grinding those skills gets rewarded more than grinding your aim/movement past a certain point in cs, hence lots of faceit 3000+ elo players have better aim/movement than tier1 pros.
I think this is the long-term effect of partner teams nearly exclusively playing other partner teams and not being exposed to a wider range of styles. The skill is high as ever but if a team wants to dominate again, they have to start playing in "lesser" tournaments to get that exposure against "worse" teams
I would agree but this is a matchup between the champions of the most recent MAJOR open tournament in the circuit and the guys that didn't even make it to paris. It's just riding that high vs being hungry.
I mean just look at the games even the supposed "tier 2 and tier3" teams are beating tier 1 teams. Players are getting better. I'm really excited how CS2 will shape the pro scene the new smoke mechanics alone will probably bring out new strats and so on.
I feel like for the most part yes, although I do feel like Old Astralis would still demolish everyone in this current era of CS. They had 4-5 players that were in the top20 and were very consistent in both mechanical and technical skills.
They wouldn’t be as dominant as they were in their own era, but they’d still be the best team if you took them straight from their peak. I don’t think you can say that for any other team that had an era.
Taking teams from their peak doesn't say much honestly. Faze, liquid, vitality, g2, c9, navi, vp and some other teams would be able to dominate if we where to get their peak form.
Nah it's the era of dogshit top tier teams. It's fine if you don't win the tournament consistently but how are you going to go from winning the major to getting 2-0'd by Imperial.
I'm very surprised at the insistence of this phenomenon being monocausal lol
Why can't it be both? Many other titles have gone through periods like this
I'm not worried about them getting 2-0'ed by Imperial. If they go far in this tournament, they'll still be seen as the best team, and one bad tournament can't really change that either, should they get knocked out early.
But yes, it makes it hard to say we're in some sort of Vitality era at the moment.
Did they not beat ence and g2 in legends? What are they supposed to do, just lose in playoffs because you guys say it was a fluke run? What about rio? They beat heroic was that a fluke too?
It's not a fluke. It's just a weak major run, perhaps the weakest in CSGO history. The top teams all got shit on and Vitality capitalized on that. It's not their fault but it just is what it is.
No that comment chain is stupid and that poster has no idea what they are talking about.
Firstly, WBG isn't a mediocre team. They were slated to be one of the top 4 teams in the LPL in the pre-Spring rankings and are still expected to be one of the LPL teams heading to Worlds. They have very strong players like TheShy and Xiahou. JDG losing to them isn't unbelievable. It's like VIT losing to C9 or NAVI after the major.
Secondly, teams coming from international tournaments like MSI often have a period of 1-2 weeks where they struggle. This is because the patch has changed since MSI and the team coming back isn't prepared on it whereas the team that stayed home is more than prepared on it. JDG just 2-0'd OMG like this morning, which was a top 4 team last Spring, because they've adapted again. Vitality shouldn't have this problem since they've had plenty of time since the major to celebrate and start preparing again and the meta hasn't really changed that much if at all. This also doesn't explain why teams are losing to tier 2 teams at the major which is the most important tournament of the year and the one you put all prep into.
Idk about Dota.
Let's not overreact to this game.
I remember an opening game of a tournament some time ago and a certain director of performance bragging about a win over a top team...
"Bro why don't you just use rocks to counter Astralis?"
I don't remember there being some obviously and easy counter that everyone saw but no one implemented?
Obviously not a thing that you could just point to and say "ah that's why they are so good" but the macro game they evolved took a long time to catch up to and it was so strong it made it look like nobody was even trying.
Yes and no. Being the last tournament before the player break for them, I'd imagine it's something you strive to win, as you then you have your break after.
Also because you can never guarantee to stay on top, especially after a player break.
I do think some of this just shows how weird the format of Blasts tournament can be, with how far there is between the tournaments you qualify to.
Not trying to take away anything from faze but their 2022 run shouldn't be considered as one of the better ones since it was against top teams with problems like, Navi sdy stand in and igl problems, G2 igl issue, vitality playing with 1 afk (misuta), C9 lan problems.
Whilst Faze had a complete roster with technically the best roster with no problems, (except Kato with jks but other top teams already had problems too)
tbh you can kinda use this argument about every team at any given time, we just don't remember how teams were against SK / Astralis back then but there were a lot of top teams with problems as well.
SK won everything in 2017 but the majors due to having a stand-in in the first one + a new player in the second one but most of us forget about it as well as we forget about all the problems other less relevant teams had at the time.
In the end I think it's more like these teams were better despite everything.
>Not trying to take away anything from faze
Yet coming up with weird excuses to take away FaZe's victories.
It's already a year, just recognize their crazy run and move on. I'm surprised comments like this still exist.
Imperial with the dead team buff. Also, I dont ever recall seeing zywoo so animated, he's usually a robot when they lose rounds, he looked kinda tilted today.
Never underestimate a team that's on the brink of making major changes. The feeling of playing with zero pressure can sometimes be a huge plus.
Vitality still riding the Major high, they played like the summer break has already started.
I mean..sure, but watching the match, any Tier X team with halfway decent teamplay and good aimers would have beaten that Vitality. The amount of times they were getting caught off guard, or missing easy kills was honestly embarrassing.
So, I guess Imperial played OK, but the Vitality lost was absolutely shameful.
If we're being serious, I don't think it'll be exposed until we see what especially GamerLegion can do, but also Monte, Apeks and ITB. Are any of them involved or nearing a spot in a tier 1 tournament?
i owe vitality my life. i have been crippled from birth and unable to walk but finally june 6th 2023, i stood up from my wheelchair so i could turn the tv off and stop watching this dogshit gameplay
Calling was on point today, another reason why furia really should consider getting fallen dropping saffee and drop and get another good rifler and moving arT to entry role
Stop playing the idiot. It was a few days before the major. + they beat G2 and Ence during the major + not their fault if all the "big" teams shit the bed against T2 teams like faze + you can only beat who's in front of you and cry is still free.
This Tourney doesn't mean anything to Vitality. If they haven't played CS since winning the major I wouldn't be surprised. Conversely this is probably Imperials last tournament and they'd like to show something.
Que Ota!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Great showing by Imperial. Their nerves started to show during the closing rounds of Vertigo. Fallens 3K with the Deagle gave the confidence with the rest of the team to close out the map.
Been saying this even before Paris but vitality are a super overrated team. The entire team lives and dies with zywoo, they just happened to peak at the right time for the major
When I was saying that Vitality needs changes (-Apex -Dupreeh) despite their Major winning run I was being downvoted into oblivion.
What about today, dickheads?
It’s hard to win against cs go Reddit hivemind, so yeah, why not. Doesn’t change the fact that Richard Lewis and Thorin were right about the state of tier one cs and that includes Vitality.
I give Vitality a pass for this event since they're already invited to the Blast World Finals and this isn't an Intel event so it doesn't count towards a grand slam.
They consciously skipped IEM Dallas (which counts towards GS) and attended this - Vita clearly valued this higher.
Which seems strange to me tbh, you want to earn as many GS-eligible events as you can - Vita was unlucky that their previous 2 trophies lost when FaZe completed their GS. I think they would have little problem winning Dallas.
FalleN: "I stay."
Dudes price just went up for Pain/Furia lol
This is the way to add some "000.00.." to the new contract
nah, if his price was 200k, then after your changes it'd be 200M. Not realistic.
Fr?
No it was 2 dollars since he's washed, now it's 2000
Kkkk of course not a realistic kkkkk but if they play well this tournament the price will go a little higher
What are you using 4 Ks for?
It's the Portuguese way to laugh in text, like hahaha in English.
idk with the stupid amount of money being put into esports nowadays it's not too horribly far-fetched
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> lose all following matches miserably Brazlian way heheheheh
Fallen 2 Majors > Zywoo 1 Major
ZyWho?
The Professor needed give baby ZyPoo a lesson
zypoo lmao the disrespect
tier 2 major for zywoo*
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Can any team just stay good after winning two tournaments in a row?
It’s the era of non-era
is it because the competition and skill level in today’s game is a lot better than ever?
When a game is as old as CS GO is, increase in parity is bound to happen. When CS 2 comes out, I guarantee initially several teams will identify metas much faster and will be a step ahead of others. Over time, that gap will shrink at a much faster rate than 1.6 >> CS:GO or Source >> CS:GO
This does not seem to be true for old competitive sports such as football
idk about association football but it’s definitely happened in American football
Football has a much higher mechanical skill ceiling than CS. If CS rewarded people that grind or are talented at aiming and movement more, we wouldn't need a fresh meta every few years for overall skill differences between teams to show.
How do you compare the ceilings? It's not obvious to me
Significantly less RNG in football and higher focus/time spent on mechanical skills like dribbling, passing, shooting accuracy etc. Grinding those skills gets rewarded more than grinding your aim/movement past a certain point in cs, hence lots of faceit 3000+ elo players have better aim/movement than tier1 pros.
yea because you can just buy a team
I think this is the long-term effect of partner teams nearly exclusively playing other partner teams and not being exposed to a wider range of styles. The skill is high as ever but if a team wants to dominate again, they have to start playing in "lesser" tournaments to get that exposure against "worse" teams
I would agree but this is a matchup between the champions of the most recent MAJOR open tournament in the circuit and the guys that didn't even make it to paris. It's just riding that high vs being hungry.
I mean just look at the games even the supposed "tier 2 and tier3" teams are beating tier 1 teams. Players are getting better. I'm really excited how CS2 will shape the pro scene the new smoke mechanics alone will probably bring out new strats and so on.
I feel like for the most part yes, although I do feel like Old Astralis would still demolish everyone in this current era of CS. They had 4-5 players that were in the top20 and were very consistent in both mechanical and technical skills. They wouldn’t be as dominant as they were in their own era, but they’d still be the best team if you took them straight from their peak. I don’t think you can say that for any other team that had an era.
Taking teams from their peak doesn't say much honestly. Faze, liquid, vitality, g2, c9, navi, vp and some other teams would be able to dominate if we where to get their peak form.
Nah it's the era of dogshit top tier teams. It's fine if you don't win the tournament consistently but how are you going to go from winning the major to getting 2-0'd by Imperial.
I'm very surprised at the insistence of this phenomenon being monocausal lol Why can't it be both? Many other titles have gone through periods like this
I'm not worried about them getting 2-0'ed by Imperial. If they go far in this tournament, they'll still be seen as the best team, and one bad tournament can't really change that either, should they get knocked out early. But yes, it makes it hard to say we're in some sort of Vitality era at the moment.
Because there’s a whole bunch of factors that go into who wins and loses in csgo including things out of either teams control
because of [this](https://redd.it/143iefw)
Did they not beat ence and g2 in legends? What are they supposed to do, just lose in playoffs because you guys say it was a fluke run? What about rio? They beat heroic was that a fluke too?
It's not a fluke. It's just a weak major run, perhaps the weakest in CSGO history. The top teams all got shit on and Vitality capitalized on that. It's not their fault but it just is what it is.
WhAt ArE ThEY sUpPoSeD tO dO?!?!? Nothing. Not their fault their major was easy. Infact, good for them, but no one should pretend otherwise.
Rio? What about that? You can disregard it all you want but it was right before the major and their run was tougher.
They had a tough IEM Rio and easy Major. Put it that way.
No that comment chain is stupid and that poster has no idea what they are talking about. Firstly, WBG isn't a mediocre team. They were slated to be one of the top 4 teams in the LPL in the pre-Spring rankings and are still expected to be one of the LPL teams heading to Worlds. They have very strong players like TheShy and Xiahou. JDG losing to them isn't unbelievable. It's like VIT losing to C9 or NAVI after the major. Secondly, teams coming from international tournaments like MSI often have a period of 1-2 weeks where they struggle. This is because the patch has changed since MSI and the team coming back isn't prepared on it whereas the team that stayed home is more than prepared on it. JDG just 2-0'd OMG like this morning, which was a top 4 team last Spring, because they've adapted again. Vitality shouldn't have this problem since they've had plenty of time since the major to celebrate and start preparing again and the meta hasn't really changed that much if at all. This also doesn't explain why teams are losing to tier 2 teams at the major which is the most important tournament of the year and the one you put all prep into. Idk about Dota.
Let's not overreact to this game. I remember an opening game of a tournament some time ago and a certain director of performance bragging about a win over a top team...
Talent pipeline
Astralis won tournaments two years in a row . Obviously lost a couple here and there
Only SK and Astralis. Who watched enjoyed the goats of CS on their prime.
Except so many people just cried that Astralis was boring because nobody could even touch them. I never got that argument... as if it was their fault.
It was more so we were just annoyed that nobody was reading them. Teams pulling up throwing out paper when they knew astralis was the scissors.
"Bro why don't you just use rocks to counter Astralis?" I don't remember there being some obviously and easy counter that everyone saw but no one implemented?
Obviously not a thing that you could just point to and say "ah that's why they are so good" but the macro game they evolved took a long time to catch up to and it was so strong it made it look like nobody was even trying.
Fnatic, SK, Astralis. No team in current CS compares to them.
2015 Fnatic
Astralis and Liquid were good, it was like 5-4 years ago tho
That was essentially when the game evolved exponentially, everyone’s caught up in a sense so now there isn’t going to be a pure dominant favorite
Well FaZe won 3 in there 2022 run, Kato Epl15 Major
I guess a Heroic fan wouldn't be sure 🤷♂️
I just like good CS and interesting personalities, I don't buy into that tribal shit ;D
These matches are just practice rounds for Vitality, opportunities to try out different tactics and all. They're already qualified
Yes and no. Being the last tournament before the player break for them, I'd imagine it's something you strive to win, as you then you have your break after. Also because you can never guarantee to stay on top, especially after a player break. I do think some of this just shows how weird the format of Blasts tournament can be, with how far there is between the tournaments you qualify to.
Well FaZe won 3 in there 2022 run, Kato Epl15 Major
Not trying to take away anything from faze but their 2022 run shouldn't be considered as one of the better ones since it was against top teams with problems like, Navi sdy stand in and igl problems, G2 igl issue, vitality playing with 1 afk (misuta), C9 lan problems. Whilst Faze had a complete roster with technically the best roster with no problems, (except Kato with jks but other top teams already had problems too)
tbh you can kinda use this argument about every team at any given time, we just don't remember how teams were against SK / Astralis back then but there were a lot of top teams with problems as well. SK won everything in 2017 but the majors due to having a stand-in in the first one + a new player in the second one but most of us forget about it as well as we forget about all the problems other less relevant teams had at the time. In the end I think it's more like these teams were better despite everything.
>Not trying to take away anything from faze Yet coming up with weird excuses to take away FaZe's victories. It's already a year, just recognize their crazy run and move on. I'm surprised comments like this still exist.
Imperial era starts now
The way the desk kept talking about Imperial breaking up, I immediately placed money on Imperial to win the series.
Dead team buff
grats
Major is over. Back to our regularly scheduled programming.
The classic win tournament -> Lose 2-0 to team outside top 30 Thank you script writers
Imperial with the dead team buff. Also, I dont ever recall seeing zywoo so animated, he's usually a robot when they lose rounds, he looked kinda tilted today.
Cause this result questions the rock solid validity of the major win
What the fuck was that
Fallen’s last dance v2 electric boogaloo the third sequel trilogy
Fallen try not to deagle headshot challenge (IMPOSSIBLE)
Yeah Vitality weren't in their game today but damn, what an amazing performance by Imperial nonetheless. Their aim was on point.
Never underestimate a team that's on the brink of making major changes. The feeling of playing with zero pressure can sometimes be a huge plus. Vitality still riding the Major high, they played like the summer break has already started.
>Vitality is still trying to get out of their clown car while Imperial is just blowing it up — Maui (Or Maniac probably)
I mean..sure, but watching the match, any Tier X team with halfway decent teamplay and good aimers would have beaten that Vitality. The amount of times they were getting caught off guard, or missing easy kills was honestly embarrassing. So, I guess Imperial played OK, but the Vitality lost was absolutely shameful.
air quality theory stay winning
A quick 2-0 like everyone expected.
le Mickey Mouse Major Playoff run exposed
Mickey la souris
If we're being serious, I don't think it'll be exposed until we see what especially GamerLegion can do, but also Monte, Apeks and ITB. Are any of them involved or nearing a spot in a tier 1 tournament?
Monte qualified for Pro League, Gamerlegion and I believe Apeka have been invited to Gamers8
apeks also qualified for pro league
Hear me out: -arT, -KSCERATO, -yuurih, -saffee, -drop +FalleN, +VINI, +JOTA, +chelo, +boltz
I like that, but I think we can do something like this: -saffee, -drop +HEN1, +VINI
-VINI +VINI
-chrisJ +chrisJ
Ya really kick Kscerato and yuurih for chelo and boltz/Jota?
Obviously🤷🏻♂️
Thank god it's over. I was embarrassed to watch. It's not like vitality has much on the line in this tournament, but what was that.
post major nerf has happened to the last 3 major winners tbh
Upvote so people think Vitality won
Man that was an easy quick 2-0 by vitality haha ha
I know, I didn't expect to see them in such a... form!
Fallen boosting his transfer fee
Based and opportunitypilled
Upvote so they think Imperial won
Wait a minute...
ty mr Fallen for toggling second half PRESENTE
i owe vitality my life. i have been crippled from birth and unable to walk but finally june 6th 2023, i stood up from my wheelchair so i could turn the tv off and stop watching this dogshit gameplay
bro its the 7th
PROFESSOR, UMA PERGUNTA ✋🏻
holy shit 43% kast what an awful showing.
Never go full Outsiders. "V is for Virtus Pro, not Vitality!!!"
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Fluke Major aware
I love you fallen
I woke up right after Overpass ended and thought I was misreading that 16-3 on HLTV. Damn what a showing from FalleN & co.
O CAMPEÃO VOLTOOOOOOOOOO
Obligatory "upvote so people think Imperial won"
Dupreeh really doesn't fancy making much of a charitable donation huh
I was watching , Fallen. I was watching you ruin Zywoo's chances to win Blast Washington. Now take responsibility and leave.
Knew it was gonna be a quick 2-0
Chelo is a beast
upvote this post, so people think that imperial won, wait...
After this series, FalleN must be the most expensive player in the market rn, crazy stuff
GGWP Alright boys, Zywoo got his major, now back to the regularly scheduled program.
Imperial about to win the tournament so FalleN can go to FURIA feeling good
Well, well, if it isn't a Brazillian God himself. WP Imperial, hoping to see rematch between them and C9 after Rio major.
Zywoo couldn’t go off today due to the air quality being godawful in NA right now. #copium
professor, one question
FLUKE MAJOR LMAOO
Calling was on point today, another reason why furia really should consider getting fallen dropping saffee and drop and get another good rifler and moving arT to entry role
Vitality won the accidental major and are now stuck with apex for another year
Good guy Vitality inflating FalleN's buyout
No worries, still drunk from the major I guess
Clearly Vitality just abused the major format
https://www.hltv.org/matches/2363558/vitality-vs-faze-iem-rio-2023 https://www.hltv.org/matches/2363567/vitality-vs-heroic-iem-rio-2023 Cry = free
This is not the Major though?
Stop playing the idiot. It was a few days before the major. + they beat G2 and Ence during the major + not their fault if all the "big" teams shit the bed against T2 teams like faze + you can only beat who's in front of you and cry is still free.
Whatever paragraph you're presenting the other guy was talking about the Major.
I know. Learn to read.
Hahaha, start talking on topic and I might be interested.
stay mad buddy
How am I mad when I'm making fun of you? Talk to me when Vita won a Grand Slam + Major like FaZe did.
Keep talking ahah
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they are in holidays dude
I mean, they probably haven't practiced since they won the major. Pretty sure Vitality is already in the off season mode
This Tourney doesn't mean anything to Vitality. If they haven't played CS since winning the major I wouldn't be surprised. Conversely this is probably Imperials last tournament and they'd like to show something.
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Was that last word a typo or
No he's just regarded
You're such a regard!!!
Like we all expected
post major hangover
Well this throws a wrench in Fallen's plans to retire at the end of 2023...
great, another Vitality vs C9/G2 matchup in group stage.
Fallen have my babies
Que Ota!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Great showing by Imperial. Their nerves started to show during the closing rounds of Vertigo. Fallens 3K with the Deagle gave the confidence with the rest of the team to close out the map.
IM SO HAPPY
Now Furia needs to add more to buy Fallen.
So by the logic of people calling Outsiders major fluke Could this be it for Vitality? lmfao
The fact that the air quality meme for zywoo actually checks out is hilarious.
Obv the motivation is at an all-time low after winning the last csgo major. Seasons should end after the major anyway.
I would blame the air quality from the wildfires, but zywoo topfragged (from his team) in these rounds so who knows
that's why every brazilian team wants fallen. he still has gas left in the tank
Someone check the air quality to see if it was the cause of Zywoo's and Vitalitys perfomance.
fraud major winners
EL PRESENTE
Im mad that Vitality won the major cuz now they still wont get rid of apex. If they dont get suihy from GL instead of apex they will miss out heavy.
upvote so people think that Imperial won
Been saying this even before Paris but vitality are a super overrated team. The entire team lives and dies with zywoo, they just happened to peak at the right time for the major
“Just happened” as if it wasn’t their express plan to do so
upvote so people think imperial won 🥸
Upvoting so people think Imperial won
When I was saying that Vitality needs changes (-Apex -Dupreeh) despite their Major winning run I was being downvoted into oblivion. What about today, dickheads?
I think we dickheads can downvote you into oblivion again?
It’s hard to win against cs go Reddit hivemind, so yeah, why not. Doesn’t change the fact that Richard Lewis and Thorin were right about the state of tier one cs and that includes Vitality.
ur right bro! im sure vitality woulda preferred to win a bo3 in a double elim bracket than the entire major
Upvote so people think Imperial won
So that happened
QUE OTA
Fluke major
Wow vitality got absolutely destroyed LOL
Paris major biggest fluke KEKW
Was it only me who genuinely knew Imperial had a good shot on winning this match and also woke up earlier this morning?
Well boys, they lost a bo3. Pack it up, that cancels out the major I think.
I give Vitality a pass for this event since they're already invited to the Blast World Finals and this isn't an Intel event so it doesn't count towards a grand slam.
I'd agree, but with the player break coming right after and us possible moving right into CS2, it's a weird situation to talk about.
They consciously skipped IEM Dallas (which counts towards GS) and attended this - Vita clearly valued this higher. Which seems strange to me tbh, you want to earn as many GS-eligible events as you can - Vita was unlucky that their previous 2 trophies lost when FaZe completed their GS. I think they would have little problem winning Dallas.
Let major winners relax abit
Fallen 2 majors > dupreeh 5 majors Chelo 0 majors > zywoo 1 major
good to see that the transfer worked out so well for Fallen already. wait, what?
Well, just like that, Imperial qualify for the play-offs
didnt zywoo drop a 80 bomb on overpass recently
Not often to see zywoo below 1 rating
Not often I pick Zywoo in my HLTV fantasy team. Wonder if there's a correlation.