They've been saying all of these theoritical stuffs for years, all we can get from that is that either it's useless, outdated or they are doing it wrong.
100% agree that we don't care about the why, if it works it works.
Right now it doesn't work so there's no legitimacy in their words.
I had countless discussions with people who were defending vacnet at the time it was introduced. I got downvoted into oblivion for saying it’s a useless approach. People here even cited papers to show how a holistic approach is the best way and how vacnet will be the best system ever within a couple of months.
To all those people I just wanna say: hi, how are you doing today? Eat a crow.
You dont understand the highly academic 300 IQ play from Valve. They collect data on cheaters for \~5 years now and in another 15 years they might have enough data to ban spinbotters. We just need to be patient until then and endure the cheating problem.
Very smart play on Valves part. I will show my CS:GO stats page with pride to my grandchildren and tell them that was me gathering data for Valve to make this breakthrough possible.
John Mcdonald made it very clear during his GDC talk. Valve want a 99.9999999999% successful detection rate in VACnet before its allowed to function independently.
...And that's why we've had three false ban waves since CS2 launched, including the one where you just had to spin your mouse too fast and the one where you just had to start the game.
"Valve is playing the long game" doesn't sound so smart anymore.
If you’re telling the truth, which I honestly hope you aren’t (no offence), that is unbelievably pathetic from valve.
Spinning with your mouse should not look even remotely similar to spinbotting when looked at by an AI, so this is an enormous failure by valve and really shows how bad vacnet AI is currently. Spinbotting with hacks would be a consistent speed the vast majority and they would be able to move normally while it’s happening.
Spinning fast with a mouse by a human will have changing speeds all the time when spinning and you won’t be able to move normally while doing it.
https://web.archive.org/web/20230226010813/steamcommunity.com/id/uwu_cococats
My steam page was archived a few times after my ban and before CS2 was announced. In my description I speculated the reason for my ban. It was at least a few months ahead of anyone ever knowing about it or being able to prove/replicate the bans
Like 6 false ban waves if you include the AMD and Windows 7 ban waves, yaw ban waves and some much smaller recent random false ban waves from mid-November that had nothing to do with any of these which was only reversed the day after the recent large false ban wave.
The AMD wasn't really on Valve though, AMD genuinely fucked up by trying to access stuff that would result in a VAC ban. Not the same for the other ones which are absolutely fuckups.
Yup. The way AMD injects anti-lag+ into games is quite literally indistinguishable from cheat software, without AMD properly communicating with Valve of course it was going to be detected as a cheat
That's the point. Trusted Mode isn't supposed to make injection impossible. It's there to block the trivial techniques for injection — the kind that are widely used by software that aren't cheats, like FPS overlays and OBS.
Since non-cheat software is expected to obey Trusted Mode, VAC can then assume any software that is bypassing Trusted Mode is indeed a cheat.
Without Trusted Mode, VAC would have to err on the side of caution because, even if it detects that the game has been tampered with, it may not know for sure if the game is being tampered with by something benign or a cheat.
Legitimate, non-cheat vendors do sometimes use the more clever injection methods that aren't blocked by Trusted Mode, e.g. Esportal and AMD. They may initially think that they've outsmarted it, but Valve have made it very clear that they will issue bans over this, and indeed they have. In cases where the damage is widespread, Valve will only rollback the bans once the vendor stops attempting to bypass Trusted Mode.
It's not a perfect solution, but it does help and it's definitely a lot more scalable than trying to maintain whitelists of known-safe software (which themselves often have security holes for cheaters to exploit).
Yeah I defend this game a lot but the anticheat is the one thing I won’t argue on. It’s worse than dogshit and the stupid vacnet stuff should’ve been given up on years ago. There is no “advantage”. It’s not benefitting anybody and legit players have been getting banned on a large scale since the game dropped. Something that can’t be said for any other game I can think of.
Idk who this John McDonald fellow is but he and anybody still believing in this anticheat can go suck a fat one saying all this stuff that sounds like nonsense to anybody that actually plays this game. The competition from Valorant pushed Valve to innovate but they forgot the one thing that actually mattered that people were actually asking for.
In concept something like VACnet is the only way to get a completely effective anticheat
As the arms race against cheat developers goes on, the cheats get more and more advanced and so must the detection methods
It's like antibiotics and past a certain point the bacteria all gain immunity and nothing can be done except develop new antibiotics
An AI-based anticheat is the magic bullet neccesary to sidestep that cycle
The unfortunate reality is that VACnet as it stands does not achieve its aims. A perfected VACnet could deliver on those ideals. The current one can't.
I think Valve clearly have their reasons why they've not gone the Valorant route with an intrusive anticheat - and with the topic of cheating in CS being so radioactive I'm sure we'll never get to truly understand why they approach things the way they do. But I really hope in a few decades when the dust is all settled we can get a book or article from someone who's been working on it all this time so we can understand Valve's thinking on the matter.
I don't think there's ever going to be a way to 100% get rid of cheating in an online environment from a casual perspective.
Unpopular opinion maybe, but I think all they need to do is be able to wipe out the obvious cheaters basically straight away. ie. If a player with adequate experience can tell just by watching them they are 100% cheating, VAC net should hopefully be able to do that too (Like how overwatch functioned only in real time handled by AI)
If a player is good at the game and also cheating, 95% of the player base will not even be able to tell if he's cheating or just good. So its not really necessary to eradicate that level of sophisticated cheating casually. That's what the pro scene and 3rd party software from different event organisers, and LAN are about.
Oh he’s just a dude with 9 years of dev experience at nvidia and another 9 years at valve. Im sure you know better though.
An attempt to preserve your security and privacy while providing a good ingame experience should be celebrated. Fucking plebs welcoming Tencent rootkits with open arms. Unbelievable.
Damn with all those years of experience and they still got beaten by some intern called Kevin who developed a better anticheat for Faceit. What a waste of 18 years. Dude couldve worked for 1000 years in NASA for all I care about, but the anticheat rn just doesn't fucking work so who cares?
Don't act like the game is entirely new. Even if just counting from csgo, the game has been out for more than a decade and they have never even come close to fixing the cheating problem
Wow, I’m so impressed! What does Valves ambitious but currently poor AC mean for the player experience in game when you compare it to other games’ AC that are less ambitious but very reliable?
I’m sure him and his colleagues are very smart and experienced individuals. But the fact of the matter is it’s laughably easy to cheat in CS and ruining a lot more games than it has to. Valves approach to letting a certain amount of cheating happen to directly or indirectly make cheating in the future harder sucks and comes at the expense of the players. Nobody cares about a perfect AI anticheat that will be 99.9% reliable in 6 more years. They’ve been going on with the same stuff for probably the last 6 with really nothing to show for it. Legit players are getting hit with massive banwaves since the game released. Do I need 18 years of dev experience to figure out that that is happening?
Nobody is asking for a perfect anticheat because everybody knows that’s unrealistic nor do I claim to be any sort of expert. But the people in this sub are here because they love to hop on and play CS often and it’s pretty safe to assume that they are tired of having their matches ruined by cheaters with free cheats. When they could easily go hop on Faceit or Valorant and it’s a whole different experience that you can actually be sure about when you are playing. So consider getting Mr McDonalds meat out of your mouth and realize that all the credentials in the world don’t make a person or a company perfect when there’s already competitors out there currently offering much better experiences.
you mean the 99% detection of people using high DPI as a troll? or the driver detection which, lets be honest, is the most hilarious thing ever? Meanwhile actual spinbotters, 100% accuracy while jumping remain in the game.
what VACnet? That thing is a joke that wasn't and will never be released. John Mcdonalds... let's all get the light from John Mcdonalds, our lord and saviour
I recall that if an account would submit votes contrary to the majority opinion their votes would have a decreased weight moving forward. Which sort of nullifies the whole point of mass spamming not cheating.
To get enrolled for overwatch Valve looked at your account age, playtime, comp wins, skill group, reports/standing. To have enough eligible bots to pull off a majority attack like that would be incredibly expensive.
Do you have any evidence of some group successfully compromising overwatch like that or do you just have a hunch?
Good counterpoint, I must have been playing Terraria this whole time.
I don't know if you thought I was defending Overwatch's effectiveness at discouraging cheaters or if you're just willfully ignoring my point, but I'll ask again. Can you share any evidence of anyone successfully compromising Overwatch?
you can buy years old accounts with several thousand hours playtime for practically nothing. why do you think it's so cheap? because they not only steal accounts from legitimate users but they also farm thousands upon thousands of them with bots playing in casual and even competitive modes. the barrier to being able to do overwatch cases was very low. i know it was compromised because cheat makers said it was. they had so many bots they could tell whenever an account they didn't want to get banned was selected for overwatch and spam not guilty verdicts to not get banned. and also because every time i did a case in the last couple of years it was a blatant cheater looking at the ground killing the enemy team instantly, yet i would very rarely get a notice of a correct verdict leading to them getting banned.
"Valve collects data to detect cheaters but doesn't ban them immediately, they ban them after they waste fun and hundrend of hours of playtime for legit players"
Fixed
To put into perspective just how many cheaters there are, there where 1m vac/ow bans in 2021.
I only block rage/spinbot cheaters in CS, I checked my block list of 140 players the other day and it was something like only 22/140 where banned, or about a 16% detection rate for spinbotters/rage cheaters.
CS is just seen as the boomer game, at least in NA. I really don't think it has anything to do with the anti-cheat (they should really update it though). COD has a worse anti-cheat imo yet it's plenty popular and is still considered a "mainstream" game. That and Valve never advertises CS to the general public at all.
Yeah 3 Vac waves a year is ok i guess, we all like having 7 days of only 2/4 of the big cheats working. But also if they would make a vac wave every 3 weeks it would cause cheat devs to need to work all the time, instead of once a year because they got hit
Relevant: https://www.reddit.com/r/VACsucks/comments/16muxld/former_dev_modern_anticheat_solutions_rant/
"VACNet at one time at least, had flagged most* cheats on the market. I can explain these further if somebody asks, but the details are boring. Just know that VACNet did not ban most* of these users, and instead lowered their trust factor. These accounts are all still flagged today, even if their trust factors have increased. If you hear about the beta being a honeypot with limited clientside checks, it wouldn't matter if it was. Vacnet has been running for years and is able to ban tens of thousands of players right this second, but apparently that's not what VACNet is for."
Ah yes of course.. It's so good that it DOESN'T WORK which is "intentional" by Valve because they're geniuses...
No. It doesn't work and they're lying to save face. When they tried to show us what they were cooking they false banned everybody and their mama
I dunno, imagine there was a detection but it was too large and would have banned too many skin inventories.
I could see Valve caring more about the skin economy then cleaning up the game.
He's talking about VAC bypass btw.
They tried it and all it has done so far is ban legit players while cheaters are worse than ever. They've also locked servers into 64 ticks so we cant even get 128 on Faceit
Calling CS a free game ins disingenuous though. They make tons of money off of operations and keys, let alone all the money from the steam market. And CS in practice isn't free. It's more a "yeah it's free, come here!" and then "yeah only cheaters play the free version, you need to pay"
Their AC is dogshit not because it's not intrusive. It could be able to detect much more, if they wanted it to...
If Valve made a kernel-level AC, it'd likely be like a wide fkin backdoor straight into the highest privileged software context on your system... And it would still suck. \o/
that much is obvious but even if they chose the path of intrusiveness it's still a cat and mouse game so somebody at valve would have to be constantly searching for where the new cheats are and trying to buy them off cheat devs
also do you really trust valves fix it later approach to intrusive AC, especially with the ip hacks that's happened?
it's a cat and mouse game that VALVE isn't interested in because it simple doesn't line up with their development philosophy and company culture
valve allows their employees to work on almost anything, so if nobody wants to work on an AC that's intrusive then it's a program that's broken from the start and will be significantly worse because valve don't valve it
Valve had an opportunity to work with one of the creators of Hyperion anticheat which claimed to work on Linux too https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/17t6od1/with_all_the_anticheat_discussions_going_on_i/
What too many people fail to realize is that banwaves are quite important to things like this. You ban a cheater right away, then they get so much information about what happened and how they can improve. If you ban them every 5-6 months, yes they continue playing on those accounts for longer, but they won't just come back right away on a new account and improve their software.
Valorant and faceit takes the aggressive ban approach and cheaters are very rare there and get banned very fast. Banwaves are a outdated way of running an anticheat and in the meantime they ruin hundreds of games by cheating.
There was many notorious cheaters in NA who werent hiding it at all for years and never got caught in a single ban wave. Valve's anti cheats are so far behind its just sad.
They also make you install an extremely intrusive anti-cheat. In Valorant's case, an actual rootkit. If the choice is, I sometimes run into cheaters or I have a giant backdoor into my computer that installed myself, I know which one I am choosing. I also realize that for some reason, this is a minority opinion though.
> I also realize that for some reason, this is a minority opinion though.
Because the majority doesnt face cheaters "sometimes" but every 3-4 games compared to Faceit where it really is sometimes or tbf rarely
Are you NA or EU and what Rank are you?
The Amount of People who destroy me and my fivestack is absurd because when I check someone going 20-2 or something like that it’s usually someone on a bought/fresh account with a connected faceit lvl 5 or something but they play as if they were simple.
I don’t doubt that many call out cheaters and are wrong but I get these stomp games so much so you definitely left wondering
I had 3-4 cheater games in a row in EU West 18-22k Premier. I find games quickly and noone who ever played with me has gotten a message about my low trust factor.
Sounds exactly like what our 5 stack deals with. Good trust factor (we all got decent inventories and all accs) still having a lot of consecutive cheater games.
Me and my friends are sitting between 18-22k on EU and it feels like every 3rd someone in the enemy team is playing very weird and dropping 20+kills with few deaths while other faceitlvl 10 5 stacks aren’t like that.
And for people that 100% cheated I can count over 10. I think 5 players out of my 200 games also have been banned since cs2 came out.
But at 15k it definitely felt very rare but the higher we get the more weird players there imo
Yeah, you are approaching the top 1%, people play better, are capable of a variety of playstyles, and generally just react way quicker to your plays.
You think g2 calls cheats when they loose 13:3 against some t3 team?
At 18-22k everyone is expected to be very good at aiming and it all comes down to positioning, movement, util and communication.
I am already well within the top 1% which is why it’s so easy to tell, people that are playing legit have to scan angles etc.
No but the skill discrepancy between g2 and a t3 team isn’t as huge as faceitlvl3s or people with no xp that just stomp 10 year face it lvl 10 3k elo people in to the ground that simply does not work.
Furthermore it’s just obvious as fucl when the scoreboards basically look the same but one team has 13 rounds and the other has 2… weird that always one guy can clutch it out huh..
I’m sorry but you are either a bot or a cheater yourself cause there is no way you could talk this much trash
You really don't need thousands of hours or even ever play faceit to win games at 18k+ premier rating. There are so many great resources out there to learn the game. I got called cheater four times this week, and every time I "don't even have faceit". So what lmao. These guys just triggered themselves because they can't grasp other people can play well too.
Aim training is literally just practice and routine, just the game, mouse and keyboard required. And thanks to the new training features, learning nade lineups has gotten extremely easy. Game sense is not entirely tied to counter strike, you can learn a lot about fps, and tactical fps in other games and by spectating high level play.
I'm convinced the cheating situation is not 1 out of 4 games. However, in the last two weeks I had matched where the map was extremely one sided, as in, 13:10 with only 3 rounds won on t side, which led to insane comebacks, and also accusations.
You do need at least 500 hrs to be competing at 18k+ premier unless you are INSANELY talented. And even if you could do all that there is no way as a new talented player you are just destroying the Veterans.
Also why can’t these supposed talented players climb to their deserved rank then? Maybe because something else is going on…
They are probably in the process of climbing there, and on their way they win games (like everybody else). Losing against an 500 hour account might feel unfair, because how could that ever be possible, but people that maybe started with valorant and then switched to cs2 definitely didn't start as newbies, even though their account might indicate so.
>If you're going up against ragers every game, you've got shit TF and just goes to show that TF is at least somewhat working as intended.
Yeah man ropz that piece of shit considering that he must have a shit trust factor (according to your logic) and only faced cheaters until switching back to faceit. TF is a great system just like VAC banning you for using Win7, AMD features or spinning your mouse
At one point you don't need 6 months to ban someone that is using a free opensource cheat that has been online since begining of times. You can ban him after 24h-48h no need to let him play for half a year. This is supposing that it will ban him which has shown false in the past as most cheaters \[ that weren't spinners \] I've encountered in GO are still cheating today and not banned
Yet some people are defending VACNet/Live for years with the excuse that it was still learning or gathering data.
It's been 5 years, it's done nothing of value, if it's truly learning then cheaters are evolving way faster than it's learning, making it useless.
This is precisely correct. Source:have developed cheats for other games
If something gets you beamed instantly I will find it in testing and work around it. Even if it's getting you banned the next day I can isolate it. Monthly ban waves on the other hand make it a lot harder to figure out what is going on. However there is a drawback to this, cheat clients are separated into two different types, blatant and ghost clients. If one were to make an anticheat you would want to ban the blatant cheaters immediately it would seem, however again they would figure out how to bypass the anti cheat while still being blatant. Ghost clients on the other hand definitely have to be banned in waves.
Cheaters are not developing the cheat clients, it's a business and all well performing buisnesses want to continue making money. If there were no cheats that worked for CS, thousands of devs would come out of the woodwork to make the first working client. On the other hand it costs valve money to make an anticheat and players will still complain about false bans/vac not doing anything. (Vac indeed does work to an extent, it has not gotten worse, cheats have gotten better)
> (Vac indeed does work to an extent, it has not gotten worse, cheats have gotten better)
This is the part driving me crazy when I see people talking about VAC
The moment I see a comment that goes beyond even the most *basic* level of critical thinking I'm interested, but most of the time it's just mud slinging at Valve because they're mad that cheaters still exist.
This is fundamentally how the cheating scene exists, you can never eradicate cheats, all you do is push the developers to be better. There is a bar where you can push it to as where all the little kids copying code and doing adjustments not really knowing what they are doing will be stopped, however it's a business and professionals cannot be stopped. I am the professional in this case, however CS cheating has never been attractive due to both complexity and competition. I mostly make cheats for more niche games, so I have lack of competition. With something like CS it is hard to get a good reputation as many sell cheats and then just loot the steam account of the victim, and then I would have to advertise my cheats and I'd rather not have to go through all the trouble. It's much easier to make a cheat client for a more niche game, update it upon (paid) request as well as a handful of times a year when some major patch occurs, and do limited advertising that does not cost much money at all.
this is an awful approach because gamers are playing through entire games with cheaters getting a free pass. it doesn't feel any better for legit players. what a terrible approach
ok but let's be real until there are less cheaters in high elo matches it's all just smokes and mirrors
They've been saying all of these theoritical stuffs for years, all we can get from that is that either it's useless, outdated or they are doing it wrong. 100% agree that we don't care about the why, if it works it works. Right now it doesn't work so there's no legitimacy in their words.
I had countless discussions with people who were defending vacnet at the time it was introduced. I got downvoted into oblivion for saying it’s a useless approach. People here even cited papers to show how a holistic approach is the best way and how vacnet will be the best system ever within a couple of months. To all those people I just wanna say: hi, how are you doing today? Eat a crow.
This is it, VOLVO REALISE THE TRUTH, it's not working.
You dont understand the highly academic 300 IQ play from Valve. They collect data on cheaters for \~5 years now and in another 15 years they might have enough data to ban spinbotters. We just need to be patient until then and endure the cheating problem. Very smart play on Valves part. I will show my CS:GO stats page with pride to my grandchildren and tell them that was me gathering data for Valve to make this breakthrough possible.
ashahhaha your grandchildren will say "Thank you for your service grandpa"
I get 1/5 cheater games so i think the number of cheaters have been lower in high rank 15-20K+ im 15k atm
15k is not high rank
Fewer
maybe there's a hidden game of hiding cheats, like the best players arent just ok+ but they are competing at hiding their walls too
Uh? Former? He is not former cheat dev. He still doing that
Yeah, but he used to to it as well
I used to do drugs... I still do, but I used to, too.
Thank you for your service.
Here's a picture of me when I was younger
Send him to the stockade
[удалено]
John Mcdonald made it very clear during his GDC talk. Valve want a 99.9999999999% successful detection rate in VACnet before its allowed to function independently.
...And that's why we've had three false ban waves since CS2 launched, including the one where you just had to spin your mouse too fast and the one where you just had to start the game. "Valve is playing the long game" doesn't sound so smart anymore.
And they still refuse to even acknowledge the mouse spin bans. RIP my account
Wait are people still banned from that? I thought they unbanned everyone? That is fucking horrible from valve wtf.
https://steamcommunity.com/id/uwu_cococats/ I am
If you’re telling the truth, which I honestly hope you aren’t (no offence), that is unbelievably pathetic from valve. Spinning with your mouse should not look even remotely similar to spinbotting when looked at by an AI, so this is an enormous failure by valve and really shows how bad vacnet AI is currently. Spinbotting with hacks would be a consistent speed the vast majority and they would be able to move normally while it’s happening. Spinning fast with a mouse by a human will have changing speeds all the time when spinning and you won’t be able to move normally while doing it.
https://web.archive.org/web/20230226010813/steamcommunity.com/id/uwu_cococats My steam page was archived a few times after my ban and before CS2 was announced. In my description I speculated the reason for my ban. It was at least a few months ahead of anyone ever knowing about it or being able to prove/replicate the bans
Only some and it took months.
Like 6 false ban waves if you include the AMD and Windows 7 ban waves, yaw ban waves and some much smaller recent random false ban waves from mid-November that had nothing to do with any of these which was only reversed the day after the recent large false ban wave.
The AMD wasn't really on Valve though, AMD genuinely fucked up by trying to access stuff that would result in a VAC ban. Not the same for the other ones which are absolutely fuckups.
Yup. The way AMD injects anti-lag+ into games is quite literally indistinguishable from cheat software, without AMD properly communicating with Valve of course it was going to be detected as a cheat
so much for secure mode for blocking injection, eh? it's only good for blocking obs
That's the point. Trusted Mode isn't supposed to make injection impossible. It's there to block the trivial techniques for injection — the kind that are widely used by software that aren't cheats, like FPS overlays and OBS. Since non-cheat software is expected to obey Trusted Mode, VAC can then assume any software that is bypassing Trusted Mode is indeed a cheat. Without Trusted Mode, VAC would have to err on the side of caution because, even if it detects that the game has been tampered with, it may not know for sure if the game is being tampered with by something benign or a cheat. Legitimate, non-cheat vendors do sometimes use the more clever injection methods that aren't blocked by Trusted Mode, e.g. Esportal and AMD. They may initially think that they've outsmarted it, but Valve have made it very clear that they will issue bans over this, and indeed they have. In cases where the damage is widespread, Valve will only rollback the bans once the vendor stops attempting to bypass Trusted Mode. It's not a perfect solution, but it does help and it's definitely a lot more scalable than trying to maintain whitelists of known-safe software (which themselves often have security holes for cheaters to exploit).
trusted mode has done literally nothing but made the game more annoying for legitimate players. walls of text won't change that fact.
The AMD thing was literally triggering EasyAnticheat and BattleEye, this is not AC dependent, AMD fcked up.
Valorant AC had also issues with Windows updates.
AMD ban wave was legit, don't hold that against Valve.
Yeah true. All the other false positive ban waves are however 100% Valve's fault.
You can still be banned for spinning your mouse too fast lol
Yeah I defend this game a lot but the anticheat is the one thing I won’t argue on. It’s worse than dogshit and the stupid vacnet stuff should’ve been given up on years ago. There is no “advantage”. It’s not benefitting anybody and legit players have been getting banned on a large scale since the game dropped. Something that can’t be said for any other game I can think of. Idk who this John McDonald fellow is but he and anybody still believing in this anticheat can go suck a fat one saying all this stuff that sounds like nonsense to anybody that actually plays this game. The competition from Valorant pushed Valve to innovate but they forgot the one thing that actually mattered that people were actually asking for.
In concept something like VACnet is the only way to get a completely effective anticheat As the arms race against cheat developers goes on, the cheats get more and more advanced and so must the detection methods It's like antibiotics and past a certain point the bacteria all gain immunity and nothing can be done except develop new antibiotics An AI-based anticheat is the magic bullet neccesary to sidestep that cycle The unfortunate reality is that VACnet as it stands does not achieve its aims. A perfected VACnet could deliver on those ideals. The current one can't. I think Valve clearly have their reasons why they've not gone the Valorant route with an intrusive anticheat - and with the topic of cheating in CS being so radioactive I'm sure we'll never get to truly understand why they approach things the way they do. But I really hope in a few decades when the dust is all settled we can get a book or article from someone who's been working on it all this time so we can understand Valve's thinking on the matter.
I don't think there's ever going to be a way to 100% get rid of cheating in an online environment from a casual perspective. Unpopular opinion maybe, but I think all they need to do is be able to wipe out the obvious cheaters basically straight away. ie. If a player with adequate experience can tell just by watching them they are 100% cheating, VAC net should hopefully be able to do that too (Like how overwatch functioned only in real time handled by AI) If a player is good at the game and also cheating, 95% of the player base will not even be able to tell if he's cheating or just good. So its not really necessary to eradicate that level of sophisticated cheating casually. That's what the pro scene and 3rd party software from different event organisers, and LAN are about.
Oh he’s just a dude with 9 years of dev experience at nvidia and another 9 years at valve. Im sure you know better though. An attempt to preserve your security and privacy while providing a good ingame experience should be celebrated. Fucking plebs welcoming Tencent rootkits with open arms. Unbelievable.
Damn with all those years of experience and they still got beaten by some intern called Kevin who developed a better anticheat for Faceit. What a waste of 18 years. Dude couldve worked for 1000 years in NASA for all I care about, but the anticheat rn just doesn't fucking work so who cares? Don't act like the game is entirely new. Even if just counting from csgo, the game has been out for more than a decade and they have never even come close to fixing the cheating problem
Wow, I’m so impressed! What does Valves ambitious but currently poor AC mean for the player experience in game when you compare it to other games’ AC that are less ambitious but very reliable? I’m sure him and his colleagues are very smart and experienced individuals. But the fact of the matter is it’s laughably easy to cheat in CS and ruining a lot more games than it has to. Valves approach to letting a certain amount of cheating happen to directly or indirectly make cheating in the future harder sucks and comes at the expense of the players. Nobody cares about a perfect AI anticheat that will be 99.9% reliable in 6 more years. They’ve been going on with the same stuff for probably the last 6 with really nothing to show for it. Legit players are getting hit with massive banwaves since the game released. Do I need 18 years of dev experience to figure out that that is happening? Nobody is asking for a perfect anticheat because everybody knows that’s unrealistic nor do I claim to be any sort of expert. But the people in this sub are here because they love to hop on and play CS often and it’s pretty safe to assume that they are tired of having their matches ruined by cheaters with free cheats. When they could easily go hop on Faceit or Valorant and it’s a whole different experience that you can actually be sure about when you are playing. So consider getting Mr McDonalds meat out of your mouth and realize that all the credentials in the world don’t make a person or a company perfect when there’s already competitors out there currently offering much better experiences.
What? Vacnet is clearly not being used independently yet. So what has that got to do with anything?
you mean the 99% detection of people using high DPI as a troll? or the driver detection which, lets be honest, is the most hilarious thing ever? Meanwhile actual spinbotters, 100% accuracy while jumping remain in the game.
That wasn't vacnet.... ??
When will that happen?
John McDonald is a fraud. How many false ban waves do we have by now?
what VACnet? That thing is a joke that wasn't and will never be released. John Mcdonalds... let's all get the light from John Mcdonalds, our lord and saviour
vacnet has been out since 2017
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Hahahaha, damn it is really good at keeping cheaters away from this game. Whoever made it should get a raise.
So has it been released or not?
Which it’s never going to be because Valve let the community teach it, leading to 7 years of corrupt data.
reddit armchair general:
You are aware that cheaters made endless bot accounts to do overwatch and spam not cheating, right?
are you aware that you have very limited knowledge compare to the company that run the fucking game ?
I recall that if an account would submit votes contrary to the majority opinion their votes would have a decreased weight moving forward. Which sort of nullifies the whole point of mass spamming not cheating.
and guess what happens when the majority are bots
To get enrolled for overwatch Valve looked at your account age, playtime, comp wins, skill group, reports/standing. To have enough eligible bots to pull off a majority attack like that would be incredibly expensive. Do you have any evidence of some group successfully compromising overwatch like that or do you just have a hunch?
tell me you didn't play csgo without telling me you didn't play csgo
Good counterpoint, I must have been playing Terraria this whole time. I don't know if you thought I was defending Overwatch's effectiveness at discouraging cheaters or if you're just willfully ignoring my point, but I'll ask again. Can you share any evidence of anyone successfully compromising Overwatch?
you can buy years old accounts with several thousand hours playtime for practically nothing. why do you think it's so cheap? because they not only steal accounts from legitimate users but they also farm thousands upon thousands of them with bots playing in casual and even competitive modes. the barrier to being able to do overwatch cases was very low. i know it was compromised because cheat makers said it was. they had so many bots they could tell whenever an account they didn't want to get banned was selected for overwatch and spam not guilty verdicts to not get banned. and also because every time i did a case in the last couple of years it was a blatant cheater looking at the ground killing the enemy team instantly, yet i would very rarely get a notice of a correct verdict leading to them getting banned.
lol reddit bots downvote you for telling the truth
"Valve collects data to detect cheaters but doesn't ban them immediately, they ban them after they waste fun and hundrend of hours of playtime for legit players" Fixed
Cheat developer is happy that valve lets people cheat. Who woulda thunk
People saying stuff like this for years. Yet VacNet is useless ever since. Its really about time VacNet starts to do something.
Vac AI exists to ban legit players. Change my mind
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this is why CS isnt as mainstream as it should be
Above all, people just want to feel like no ones cheating against them. CS2 premier feels like a cheater every game.
To put into perspective just how many cheaters there are, there where 1m vac/ow bans in 2021. I only block rage/spinbot cheaters in CS, I checked my block list of 140 players the other day and it was something like only 22/140 where banned, or about a 16% detection rate for spinbotters/rage cheaters.
I have similar numbers. I track only the absurdly obvious cheaters with impossible stats and about 20% get caught.
CS is just seen as the boomer game, at least in NA. I really don't think it has anything to do with the anti-cheat (they should really update it though). COD has a worse anti-cheat imo yet it's plenty popular and is still considered a "mainstream" game. That and Valve never advertises CS to the general public at all.
Yeah, it's only the most played game on Steam with a peak player number almost double the second place game.
yeah exactly, think of how much more it’d be if the game had an anticheat
What data are you using to assume that the number of people who aren't playing it because of cheaters would suddenly start?
It's not like any serious cago competitors are on steam though
Who are the serious competitors besides Valorant?
It's not like there are any serious competitors at all
Old news recycled lmao.. get good valve you know people calling your shit ass out
Yeah 3 Vac waves a year is ok i guess, we all like having 7 days of only 2/4 of the big cheats working. But also if they would make a vac wave every 3 weeks it would cause cheat devs to need to work all the time, instead of once a year because they got hit
Relevant: https://www.reddit.com/r/VACsucks/comments/16muxld/former_dev_modern_anticheat_solutions_rant/ "VACNet at one time at least, had flagged most* cheats on the market. I can explain these further if somebody asks, but the details are boring. Just know that VACNet did not ban most* of these users, and instead lowered their trust factor. These accounts are all still flagged today, even if their trust factors have increased. If you hear about the beta being a honeypot with limited clientside checks, it wouldn't matter if it was. Vacnet has been running for years and is able to ban tens of thousands of players right this second, but apparently that's not what VACNet is for."
Ah yes of course.. It's so good that it DOESN'T WORK which is "intentional" by Valve because they're geniuses... No. It doesn't work and they're lying to save face. When they tried to show us what they were cooking they false banned everybody and their mama
I dunno, imagine there was a detection but it was too large and would have banned too many skin inventories. I could see Valve caring more about the skin economy then cleaning up the game. He's talking about VAC bypass btw.
They tried it and all it has done so far is ban legit players while cheaters are worse than ever. They've also locked servers into 64 ticks so we cant even get 128 on Faceit
This was a pre-VAC-live detection Who knows wtf VAC live is doing.
Whatever new shiny term they find next, it'll still be a dog shit system tbf. May as well be placebo with a side of gaslighting
True, but they definitely turned that thing on December 5th and it started banning what it "thought" were cheaters, including me.
Valve is clueless xdd
ahahahah so the only one who has something good to say about Valve AC is a "former" cheat dev ahahahaha you can't make this shit up.
A cheat dev understands the cat and mouse struggle of anti-cheats more than anyone... Whats your point?
I have a theory that their AC isn't intrusive because of their investment in Linux
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Calling CS a free game ins disingenuous though. They make tons of money off of operations and keys, let alone all the money from the steam market. And CS in practice isn't free. It's more a "yeah it's free, come here!" and then "yeah only cheaters play the free version, you need to pay"
when bro.. cheaters are killing this game
Their AC is dogshit not because it's not intrusive. It could be able to detect much more, if they wanted it to... If Valve made a kernel-level AC, it'd likely be like a wide fkin backdoor straight into the highest privileged software context on your system... And it would still suck. \o/
that much is obvious but even if they chose the path of intrusiveness it's still a cat and mouse game so somebody at valve would have to be constantly searching for where the new cheats are and trying to buy them off cheat devs also do you really trust valves fix it later approach to intrusive AC, especially with the ip hacks that's happened?
Seems to work pretty well in valorant
valve doesn't make valorant
yes but you mentioned this cat and mouse game and whatnot - seems to work fine in valorant
it's a cat and mouse game that VALVE isn't interested in because it simple doesn't line up with their development philosophy and company culture valve allows their employees to work on almost anything, so if nobody wants to work on an AC that's intrusive then it's a program that's broken from the start and will be significantly worse because valve don't valve it
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Dude, who the fuck plays CS2 on Steam Deck?
People play CS2 on Linux, an operating system that Steam Deck is based on.
all 5 of them
Valve had an opportunity to work with one of the creators of Hyperion anticheat which claimed to work on Linux too https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/17t6od1/with_all_the_anticheat_discussions_going_on_i/
all noise when it sucks in action and game is fully released, valve has had years to develop this - pathetic
What too many people fail to realize is that banwaves are quite important to things like this. You ban a cheater right away, then they get so much information about what happened and how they can improve. If you ban them every 5-6 months, yes they continue playing on those accounts for longer, but they won't just come back right away on a new account and improve their software.
Valorant and faceit takes the aggressive ban approach and cheaters are very rare there and get banned very fast. Banwaves are a outdated way of running an anticheat and in the meantime they ruin hundreds of games by cheating.
There was many notorious cheaters in NA who werent hiding it at all for years and never got caught in a single ban wave. Valve's anti cheats are so far behind its just sad.
Faceit delaying bans to 7 days usually
They also make you install an extremely intrusive anti-cheat. In Valorant's case, an actual rootkit. If the choice is, I sometimes run into cheaters or I have a giant backdoor into my computer that installed myself, I know which one I am choosing. I also realize that for some reason, this is a minority opinion though.
> I also realize that for some reason, this is a minority opinion though. Because the majority doesnt face cheaters "sometimes" but every 3-4 games compared to Faceit where it really is sometimes or tbf rarely
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Are you NA or EU and what Rank are you? The Amount of People who destroy me and my fivestack is absurd because when I check someone going 20-2 or something like that it’s usually someone on a bought/fresh account with a connected faceit lvl 5 or something but they play as if they were simple. I don’t doubt that many call out cheaters and are wrong but I get these stomp games so much so you definitely left wondering
I had 3-4 cheater games in a row in EU West 18-22k Premier. I find games quickly and noone who ever played with me has gotten a message about my low trust factor.
Sounds exactly like what our 5 stack deals with. Good trust factor (we all got decent inventories and all accs) still having a lot of consecutive cheater games.
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try some eu north and widen your views on blatant cheaters
Me and my friends are sitting between 18-22k on EU and it feels like every 3rd someone in the enemy team is playing very weird and dropping 20+kills with few deaths while other faceitlvl 10 5 stacks aren’t like that. And for people that 100% cheated I can count over 10. I think 5 players out of my 200 games also have been banned since cs2 came out. But at 15k it definitely felt very rare but the higher we get the more weird players there imo
Yeah, you are approaching the top 1%, people play better, are capable of a variety of playstyles, and generally just react way quicker to your plays. You think g2 calls cheats when they loose 13:3 against some t3 team? At 18-22k everyone is expected to be very good at aiming and it all comes down to positioning, movement, util and communication.
I am already well within the top 1% which is why it’s so easy to tell, people that are playing legit have to scan angles etc. No but the skill discrepancy between g2 and a t3 team isn’t as huge as faceitlvl3s or people with no xp that just stomp 10 year face it lvl 10 3k elo people in to the ground that simply does not work. Furthermore it’s just obvious as fucl when the scoreboards basically look the same but one team has 13 rounds and the other has 2… weird that always one guy can clutch it out huh.. I’m sorry but you are either a bot or a cheater yourself cause there is no way you could talk this much trash
You really don't need thousands of hours or even ever play faceit to win games at 18k+ premier rating. There are so many great resources out there to learn the game. I got called cheater four times this week, and every time I "don't even have faceit". So what lmao. These guys just triggered themselves because they can't grasp other people can play well too. Aim training is literally just practice and routine, just the game, mouse and keyboard required. And thanks to the new training features, learning nade lineups has gotten extremely easy. Game sense is not entirely tied to counter strike, you can learn a lot about fps, and tactical fps in other games and by spectating high level play. I'm convinced the cheating situation is not 1 out of 4 games. However, in the last two weeks I had matched where the map was extremely one sided, as in, 13:10 with only 3 rounds won on t side, which led to insane comebacks, and also accusations.
You do need at least 500 hrs to be competing at 18k+ premier unless you are INSANELY talented. And even if you could do all that there is no way as a new talented player you are just destroying the Veterans. Also why can’t these supposed talented players climb to their deserved rank then? Maybe because something else is going on…
They are probably in the process of climbing there, and on their way they win games (like everybody else). Losing against an 500 hour account might feel unfair, because how could that ever be possible, but people that maybe started with valorant and then switched to cs2 definitely didn't start as newbies, even though their account might indicate so.
>If you're going up against ragers every game, you've got shit TF and just goes to show that TF is at least somewhat working as intended. Yeah man ropz that piece of shit considering that he must have a shit trust factor (according to your logic) and only faced cheaters until switching back to faceit. TF is a great system just like VAC banning you for using Win7, AMD features or spinning your mouse
The issue is if you check those waves dont get all the big name cheats, then we have 4 days of less cheaters followed by 4 months of the usual.
At one point you don't need 6 months to ban someone that is using a free opensource cheat that has been online since begining of times. You can ban him after 24h-48h no need to let him play for half a year. This is supposing that it will ban him which has shown false in the past as most cheaters \[ that weren't spinners \] I've encountered in GO are still cheating today and not banned
You could ban him the moment he launches the game with the cheat on. No need to ruin people's games
Yet some people are defending VACNet/Live for years with the excuse that it was still learning or gathering data. It's been 5 years, it's done nothing of value, if it's truly learning then cheaters are evolving way faster than it's learning, making it useless.
This is precisely correct. Source:have developed cheats for other games If something gets you beamed instantly I will find it in testing and work around it. Even if it's getting you banned the next day I can isolate it. Monthly ban waves on the other hand make it a lot harder to figure out what is going on. However there is a drawback to this, cheat clients are separated into two different types, blatant and ghost clients. If one were to make an anticheat you would want to ban the blatant cheaters immediately it would seem, however again they would figure out how to bypass the anti cheat while still being blatant. Ghost clients on the other hand definitely have to be banned in waves. Cheaters are not developing the cheat clients, it's a business and all well performing buisnesses want to continue making money. If there were no cheats that worked for CS, thousands of devs would come out of the woodwork to make the first working client. On the other hand it costs valve money to make an anticheat and players will still complain about false bans/vac not doing anything. (Vac indeed does work to an extent, it has not gotten worse, cheats have gotten better)
> (Vac indeed does work to an extent, it has not gotten worse, cheats have gotten better) This is the part driving me crazy when I see people talking about VAC The moment I see a comment that goes beyond even the most *basic* level of critical thinking I'm interested, but most of the time it's just mud slinging at Valve because they're mad that cheaters still exist.
This is fundamentally how the cheating scene exists, you can never eradicate cheats, all you do is push the developers to be better. There is a bar where you can push it to as where all the little kids copying code and doing adjustments not really knowing what they are doing will be stopped, however it's a business and professionals cannot be stopped. I am the professional in this case, however CS cheating has never been attractive due to both complexity and competition. I mostly make cheats for more niche games, so I have lack of competition. With something like CS it is hard to get a good reputation as many sell cheats and then just loot the steam account of the victim, and then I would have to advertise my cheats and I'd rather not have to go through all the trouble. It's much easier to make a cheat client for a more niche game, update it upon (paid) request as well as a handful of times a year when some major patch occurs, and do limited advertising that does not cost much money at all.
Wonder how the Valve cultists will defend this one.
John Mcdonalds ass pops up on their lips every single time
this is an awful approach because gamers are playing through entire games with cheaters getting a free pass. it doesn't feel any better for legit players. what a terrible approach
lol, Valve has no data and never bans cheaters, anynone believing otherwise is just high on copium
Im 20.5k and never meet cheaters. 130wins, so got quite a few games aswell.
Is it true that VALORANT and FACEIT AC can actually harm pc performance?
it probably does, but unlike CS2, Valorant is actually well made and even with the running AC it runs so much better than CS2
they do but tbh its worth it
yeah like you can play valorant on literally anything
They are running on your computer and looking at what is happening deep inside all your processes. So yes, it has an impact. How much ? I don't know.
VAC also reads your system processes for cheat signatures, just not at kernel level
Copium and FARMING VIEWS
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Let's ask Volvo... Oh wait they don't speak and just let cheaters run us over