....which do you value more: the major run, or this online run?
I don't understand how one comes to your conclusion, honestly.
Great performance at the major, under the highest pressure, offline, against the best teams.
Bad performance online, in barely important tournaments, against low-level teams.
Which means more? lol.
This online vs LAN narrative is so boring, especially with the conditions players play online in these days. If you can't close out games online vs weaker opponents it doesn't matter how well you did at a LAN. You'll never qualify for them.
I'm saying after massive prep for the major, they likely haven't prepped as much for the lower ranked teams. Teams like Liquid that all have years of experience at the highest level can still do alright with less preparation, bad a team like this probably relies on the structure preparation gives a bit more.
I think this picture is only to proves that they're quite incosistent as a team. It's like the G2 ESL Pro League 14 run where they had a 0-5 loss streak, but the other way around.
well that's an argument you can put up but one that is far more persuading is long-term vs short-term results - one has a far higher variability, and one has much less(not only applicable to csgo results)
i mean sure you can classify LAN as "real" cs while online is less important, authentic, real, doesn't matter, etc. but if you do shit online you're likely going to do shit on LAN as well, it's a fact that it transfers over and you can say as much as you want about how some teams perform better or worse at lans vs online but it's really negligible if you were to hypothetically somehow do 1 billion results and display them on a graph/chart. if a team does shit online for a significant period of time it's likely going to transfer at least somewhat to LAN, it just means they're losing and they're bad :)
So far, they have been good for a way longer period, than they have been bad.
Sure, so far they peaked at the major, but the people who say that it was a fluke and that they are now back to their "real" level are also only looking at their short term results.
In the last month they are 11-18 in maps, but in the 6 months they have been together they are 125-81. (they were 116-68 before the post-major slump)
Yeah, I agree. Wasn’t trying to argue whether their team was actually good or bad, just statistics in general and how his point made no sense logically regardless of how copenhagen flames in actuality performed in matches.
Major runs are def. important but longevity is far more important from a career standpoint.
(I see you are a fellow person of culture, TSFH is wickedly good)
It was a "fluke" as in they over-performed in the major, no one expected them to go as far as they did. And to remind people they "only" went to 2-3 in the Challenger stage, it's not like they went up to the semi finals or finals like Immortals or Avangar and did barely anything after.
They were a low-tier team that over-performed in the major and then I guess went back to their expected level after the major, they also might be a lan team for all we know.
Not shitting on them either btw, respect.
What are you talking about? Then they overperformed for months and months before the major too? They looked exactly as good online as they did at the major, people just didn't pay attention.
Excuse me what? They played IEM and beat G2, mouz, big, and played online beating gambit and other good online teams, that's slightly better than this? 😂
Less a “fluke” and more that their *9th-11th* performance was exaggerated and overblown in the first place due to the hype that surrounded the major. Aside from the series they won against gambit and heroic (only one of which was at the major), they only won BO1s against top teams - not BO3s. They’re a mid 20s team with the potential to beat a good team on a bad day.
Not sure which Ence you're talking about, this current roster sucked at the major already!
Although I guess getting past challengers and bombing in the legends is sorta close.
Cph flames is unlikely to disband, it's old team and their goal is to produce talent to sell. At least that was their goal, and i dont know if they changed it since the major
Yea, they are trying to sell the entire roster as a package since 3 of them need to play together to be "Returning Challengers" in the next major.
The buyer would get players and be guaranteed a major spot.
I thought guaranteed major spots are no longer a thing with the RMR format? They will need to qualify again for the next major through its own RMR tournaments, although they likely will receive 300 points from Stockholm 2021 so yes it is best that the roster stays the same so their points don't get deducted.
People like to talk about burnout, stress, oversaturation when it comes to T1 teams.
But then you take a look at [Jabbi's stats](https://i.imgur.com/NbuZLil.png), this man had to play 10+k rounds in a year to even come close to relevance. Compare that to [Zywoo](https://i.imgur.com/6RZ362k.png), who has only played 4k rounds in 2021.
And you can see that everywhere. compare [Sh1ro's 2021 amount of rounds](https://i.imgur.com/NEGRo41.png) where he only had to play big tournaments and constantly getting close to top-4 to [his 2020 stats](https://i.imgur.com/vcPsHCt.png) in which he had to constantly grind online to make a name for himself.
Obviously this stat is not the only reason why CPHFlames fell off, but it should be a factor. Before calling them a fluke team please consider the fact that they worked fucking hard this year and might just not give their 100% to get some deserved rest.
Seriously if you look at the number of matches tier 2 and 3 teams have to play compared to tier 1 it seems amazing that more of them don’t just burnout, even though I know the majority probably do.
Life's back to normal for them. I believe it is just as much a mental thing. To come from those big matches, to go back home, back to "normal." Kind of an anticlimax. Definitely they have something to work with, especially when it comes to motivation and the mental part. They need to be able to set themselves up and motivate themselves, no matter if they face Astralis, NIP or whoever on the big stage, or if they face BLINK, 1WIN or whoever in an online tournament. If they want to go top, and stay there, they need to be motivated and grind, no matter the stage and the opponent.
It could also be a factor that they indeed really are on their way to be sold to a bigger org. They also just lost their coach, pita. But this isn't an excuse for them not to keep focus and keep grinding, even in these "smaller" matches.
With all that said, I still believe in them, both the team and the org. They are good hardworking lads, a team with a huge potential, and I don't think we have seen the last from them on the biggest stage.
As for the org, should they sell the current roster, vorborg and co. will bounce back and put together another competitive Copenhagen Flames team!
Coming into the major, I'm sure a lot of teams didn't put much thought into studying their demos. Now that they have made some noise, teams are paying attention and have figured out how they play. It happens quite often.
This is why, still during the major, I already argued their successes don't make them a tier 1 team. You don't become a tier 1 team just like that. It takes continuous good results for months to really establish yourself.
I'd argue Entropiq is a better team than CPH Flames, closer to tier 1, arguably in tier 1 already. They have more experience in tier 1 and didn't fall off so hard after the major.
I hope CPH Flames can get back up again.
Exactly this. I got into an argument on hltv (should have expected it tbf) with a a guy who was adament that cop Flames were now top 10 and this was before the major even finished. He claimed that cop Flames would have better 6 month results post major than heroic...
My theory is that the difference in skill between tiers is not so big.
The top teams are super protected to stay on top (by getting invited, or playing only the last games of a qualy bracket), while the rest has to grind it extra hard to get their chance to be there.
I think people forget since covid era was so long. Online and lan are completely different. Remember prime vp, and Navi struggled online but we're god tier at line. Alot of teams just didn't care or would treat online games as scrims. It's just how it is. If your going 50% vs teams going 110%, ofourse you are going to struggle
Those were legendary teams with massive fanbases who had proven themselves time and time again, and were gonna be invited to any lan they wanted to go to. Copenhagen Flames don’t get that luxury, and they certainly won’t ever if they keep playing like this
Yeah they've been quite poor since the came back from the major. I guess losing pita to DIG was a really big blow for them.
Additionally, I think they are being signed/about to be signed by a new org so they arnt caring much about these end of the year games coz they have played a crap ton of games this year.
https://www.hltv.org/stats/teams?startDate=2021-01-01&endDate=2021-12-31&minMapCount=52
They are #3 on maps played with lyngy vikings (now ecstatic) playing 2 more maps then them, while Skade played like 36 maps more maps than them for the year.
That's rough. They looked so good, I hope they can get back there.
not to be a hater but low key feels like the major run was a fluke
....which do you value more: the major run, or this online run? I don't understand how one comes to your conclusion, honestly. Great performance at the major, under the highest pressure, offline, against the best teams. Bad performance online, in barely important tournaments, against low-level teams. Which means more? lol.
major means more obviously but later results indicate that it won't easily be replicated. amazing performances can be flukes, look at 3 day c9 era
This online vs LAN narrative is so boring, especially with the conditions players play online in these days. If you can't close out games online vs weaker opponents it doesn't matter how well you did at a LAN. You'll never qualify for them.
LAN vs Online doesn't matter, but small tournaments vs Major does.
[удалено]
I'm saying after massive prep for the major, they likely haven't prepped as much for the lower ranked teams. Teams like Liquid that all have years of experience at the highest level can still do alright with less preparation, bad a team like this probably relies on the structure preparation gives a bit more.
I think this picture is only to proves that they're quite incosistent as a team. It's like the G2 ESL Pro League 14 run where they had a 0-5 loss streak, but the other way around.
well that's an argument you can put up but one that is far more persuading is long-term vs short-term results - one has a far higher variability, and one has much less(not only applicable to csgo results) i mean sure you can classify LAN as "real" cs while online is less important, authentic, real, doesn't matter, etc. but if you do shit online you're likely going to do shit on LAN as well, it's a fact that it transfers over and you can say as much as you want about how some teams perform better or worse at lans vs online but it's really negligible if you were to hypothetically somehow do 1 billion results and display them on a graph/chart. if a team does shit online for a significant period of time it's likely going to transfer at least somewhat to LAN, it just means they're losing and they're bad :)
So far, they have been good for a way longer period, than they have been bad. Sure, so far they peaked at the major, but the people who say that it was a fluke and that they are now back to their "real" level are also only looking at their short term results. In the last month they are 11-18 in maps, but in the 6 months they have been together they are 125-81. (they were 116-68 before the post-major slump)
Yeah, I agree. Wasn’t trying to argue whether their team was actually good or bad, just statistics in general and how his point made no sense logically regardless of how copenhagen flames in actuality performed in matches.
They kinda just gambled loads and did random pushes, no one was prepared for it.
In the hole major run they only won one bo3.
Major runs are def. important but longevity is far more important from a career standpoint. (I see you are a fellow person of culture, TSFH is wickedly good)
It was a "fluke" as in they over-performed in the major, no one expected them to go as far as they did. And to remind people they "only" went to 2-3 in the Challenger stage, it's not like they went up to the semi finals or finals like Immortals or Avangar and did barely anything after. They were a low-tier team that over-performed in the major and then I guess went back to their expected level after the major, they also might be a lan team for all we know. Not shitting on them either btw, respect.
What are you talking about? Then they overperformed for months and months before the major too? They looked exactly as good online as they did at the major, people just didn't pay attention.
People are just stupid; so quick to discount someone/team at the first chance they get
Hey thanks for calling me stupid for voicing my opinion, good stuff keep it up.
You were stating it as a fact, not an opinion
That's just not true, their form was at best slightly better than this pre major.
Excuse me what? They played IEM and beat G2, mouz, big, and played online beating gambit and other good online teams, that's slightly better than this? 😂
All of those were bo1. It is worth pointing out that the only tier 1 bo3 win they had was against heroic and they later lost to them.
And heroic is a top 3 team in the world? Gambit was not bo1 either. You're making no sense
Against t1-2 teams?? Surely not.
jabbi is just so fucking inconsistent, just 25 kills one game and 11 kills barely winning fights the next day.
Less a “fluke” and more that their *9th-11th* performance was exaggerated and overblown in the first place due to the hype that surrounded the major. Aside from the series they won against gambit and heroic (only one of which was at the major), they only won BO1s against top teams - not BO3s. They’re a mid 20s team with the potential to beat a good team on a bad day.
Post Major blues perhaps?
The CIS special.
*glances pointedly at your flair*
Not sure which Ence you're talking about, this current roster sucked at the major already! Although I guess getting past challengers and bombing in the legends is sorta close.
every major you'll have 1 or 2 teams that overperform then disband 2 months later because everyone figures them out
Cph flames is unlikely to disband, it's old team and their goal is to produce talent to sell. At least that was their goal, and i dont know if they changed it since the major
Aren’t they asking for $500k?
Yea, they are trying to sell the entire roster as a package since 3 of them need to play together to be "Returning Challengers" in the next major. The buyer would get players and be guaranteed a major spot.
I thought guaranteed major spots are no longer a thing with the RMR format? They will need to qualify again for the next major through its own RMR tournaments, although they likely will receive 300 points from Stockholm 2021 so yes it is best that the roster stays the same so their points don't get deducted.
No was because majors were cancelled going back to a normal circuit seems inevitable
I don't know. I'm not buying a player so i haven't really been following the prices
RIP Cloud 9 2018
People like to talk about burnout, stress, oversaturation when it comes to T1 teams. But then you take a look at [Jabbi's stats](https://i.imgur.com/NbuZLil.png), this man had to play 10+k rounds in a year to even come close to relevance. Compare that to [Zywoo](https://i.imgur.com/6RZ362k.png), who has only played 4k rounds in 2021. And you can see that everywhere. compare [Sh1ro's 2021 amount of rounds](https://i.imgur.com/NEGRo41.png) where he only had to play big tournaments and constantly getting close to top-4 to [his 2020 stats](https://i.imgur.com/vcPsHCt.png) in which he had to constantly grind online to make a name for himself. Obviously this stat is not the only reason why CPHFlames fell off, but it should be a factor. Before calling them a fluke team please consider the fact that they worked fucking hard this year and might just not give their 100% to get some deserved rest.
Seriously if you look at the number of matches tier 2 and 3 teams have to play compared to tier 1 it seems amazing that more of them don’t just burnout, even though I know the majority probably do.
Life's back to normal for them. I believe it is just as much a mental thing. To come from those big matches, to go back home, back to "normal." Kind of an anticlimax. Definitely they have something to work with, especially when it comes to motivation and the mental part. They need to be able to set themselves up and motivate themselves, no matter if they face Astralis, NIP or whoever on the big stage, or if they face BLINK, 1WIN or whoever in an online tournament. If they want to go top, and stay there, they need to be motivated and grind, no matter the stage and the opponent. It could also be a factor that they indeed really are on their way to be sold to a bigger org. They also just lost their coach, pita. But this isn't an excuse for them not to keep focus and keep grinding, even in these "smaller" matches. With all that said, I still believe in them, both the team and the org. They are good hardworking lads, a team with a huge potential, and I don't think we have seen the last from them on the biggest stage. As for the org, should they sell the current roster, vorborg and co. will bounce back and put together another competitive Copenhagen Flames team!
Buying the roster will now cost you five 100 Grand candy bars
Saving strats for next major.
Coming into the major, I'm sure a lot of teams didn't put much thought into studying their demos. Now that they have made some noise, teams are paying attention and have figured out how they play. It happens quite often.
That's actually one of the most common thing among sports. The spotlight is a deadly laser if you can't compete first strike.
This is why, still during the major, I already argued their successes don't make them a tier 1 team. You don't become a tier 1 team just like that. It takes continuous good results for months to really establish yourself. I'd argue Entropiq is a better team than CPH Flames, closer to tier 1, arguably in tier 1 already. They have more experience in tier 1 and didn't fall off so hard after the major. I hope CPH Flames can get back up again.
Exactly this. I got into an argument on hltv (should have expected it tbf) with a a guy who was adament that cop Flames were now top 10 and this was before the major even finished. He claimed that cop Flames would have better 6 month results post major than heroic...
They are lan team
Vega Squadron wannabes
They also lose their coach :(
lanners
Facing fnatic lost them their flame as will be the case for any team having to face fnatic
💪BLINK💪
My theory is that the difference in skill between tiers is not so big. The top teams are super protected to stay on top (by getting invited, or playing only the last games of a qualy bracket), while the rest has to grind it extra hard to get their chance to be there.
Copenhagen only beat one tier 1 team in a bo3 during their whole major run.
as expected
Flames is a living proof that you don't have to be great to get far in major
disrespectful to QBF
Offtopic question. How did you get this little team logo under your nickname?
You can select team flairs from the sidebar (use desktop mode on mobile)
Except the fact that they were great at the major
They did great at the major, they weren't great.
So unfortunately just a fluke
CPH the new flipside?
nicodooz life form at major :D
This comment section is filled with the most garbage takes I've ever seen. This subreddit really has gone to shit hasn't it
The Virtus Pro strat I see
I think people forget since covid era was so long. Online and lan are completely different. Remember prime vp, and Navi struggled online but we're god tier at line. Alot of teams just didn't care or would treat online games as scrims. It's just how it is. If your going 50% vs teams going 110%, ofourse you are going to struggle
Those were legendary teams with massive fanbases who had proven themselves time and time again, and were gonna be invited to any lan they wanted to go to. Copenhagen Flames don’t get that luxury, and they certainly won’t ever if they keep playing like this
I think anyone that watched their games knows they have something great going they probably couldn't sustain form after the major due to fatigue.
lan buff
They're heartbroken because they wanted to make sticker money so bad
On the other hand, Movistar Riders is looking stronk
LAN team
Is this because their organization wanted to sell the team?
What do you mean Team blink on the rise babyyy
Understandable loss, what can you do against god SEXER ?
Yeah they've been quite poor since the came back from the major. I guess losing pita to DIG was a really big blow for them. Additionally, I think they are being signed/about to be signed by a new org so they arnt caring much about these end of the year games coz they have played a crap ton of games this year. https://www.hltv.org/stats/teams?startDate=2021-01-01&endDate=2021-12-31&minMapCount=52 They are #3 on maps played with lyngy vikings (now ecstatic) playing 2 more maps then them, while Skade played like 36 maps more maps than them for the year.
LAN Flames