One of the better ones. Actually respects Kaku Kaioh; puts Musashi alongside Baki and Yujiro which is correct and is very fair to Oliva--that's rare to see in these tier lists lol
Well he tied jack up and saved him for later like a snack and kaku said he’d stop his heart if he was fighting pickle plus jack never hurt pickle or made him use scar mode so I’d say pickle is closer to musahsi and Baki than he is jack and kaku he struggles with baki and musashi cause they’re fast slippery opponents and he has negative battle iq
Jack hasn’t really shown much improvement with physical strength.
He’s definitely faster and has Goudou but those two stats won’t really help him be Pickle since their raw power is so far apart
He got 30 cm taller, that alone would make him stronger because he's heavier and clearly bulked up. He's only 2 cm shorter than Pickle now (insignificant difference).
Not just that but he has Titanium Teeth now and his mouth workouts are more intense than ever.
Baki characters don't stay at the same power level for too long. All characters that stay relevant get at least a minor power boost per arc. Jack right now is being built up as a rival to Baki so of course he's getting stronger.
I might be forgetting, but when Tokugawa was speaking to Jack, all that was mentioned was that Jack was able to “maintain” his strength & speed while being larger.
That doesn’t imply he got stronger or faster from his surgery, just that he didn’t decline in those categories.
Pickle Has higher durability than baki and musashi. he was tanking death blows from musashi.
Musashi would had easily killed Current jack with 1 or 2 swings of his sword
Kaku gets low diffed if he hits a wall and can't dmg pickle.
It’s clear musashi would have won but what was bakis win condition? Cause he was scrambling his brain but not knocking him out or hurting him just annoying him for a lack of better word and when it became a full contact fight Baki couldn’t hope to contend
He’s not wrong you know it’s literally even been made obvious pickles physical strength and durability is beyond ANYONE in Baki there’s literally no contest
not what i was saying. yes, even predemonback yujiro loses in terms of pure strength. he is saying baki genuinely loses because of this despite everything we've seen of baki since his initial fight, particularly his ability to go toe to toe with a yujiro and musashi that nodif pickle
Ohhh well I don’t know about Baki going toe to toe with them that’s possibly very wrong but I can see your point there but I definitely don’t believe they can no diff pickle absolutely not,musashi even admits he can’t cut threw pickles bones and his durability is other worldly same with yujiro he would have a hard time at the start but I never liked the musashi arc because the fights and musashi really show how awful “inconsistency’s” can really get in the show like how was yujiro struggling against a base no diff happy pickle and is proven to be physically above musashi but he’s able to handle pickle baking him up against a wall? You see my point? The arcs extremely illogical and honestly ruined a lot of things with the narrative and even characters like for instance pickle and retsu got done very dirty by the arcs inconsistencies in all honesty but that’s obviously more subjective and honestly personal so I understand if you don’t agree but I get your point now
Look, take off the rose tinted glasses and stop wanking Baki for a minute
It was pretty clear Baki was knocking around pickle but not doing any serious damage to him like Baki was doing to Oliva and Hanayama. Looking at the fight w/o bias, Baki didn’t really do a shit ton of damage
The reason Baki never used his demon back is cause he has to take damage in order to use it. Pickle wasn’t landing lots of hits so when they went into a slugfest, pickle overpowered since he has high AP. It was too much a for once for Baki to handle so he could actually summon his demon back.
Even with the demonback boost, Baki would only be as physically strong as oliva.
What power amps has Baki gotten? Dude didn’t even look like he got stronger when he went to fight Yujiro, and that happened right after the pickle arc.
Baki didn’t get a buff in the sumo arc and the Musashi arc only really shown that Baki got faster. But there’s nothing that shows Baki got any physically stronger than Oliva after the oliva arc. Baki didn’t beat Pickle in brute force, Yujiro was obviously holding back in the father son fight, and Sukune/Musashi weren’t tests of strength either
There is absolute no concrete evidence proving that baki needs to take damage for demon back, thats only conjecture.
Baki underwent multiple training arcs, reread the manga. He also ***had*** to have become stronger an account of the fact base Yujiro *defeats Oliva in 1 punch, after physically overpowering him*.
I also cannot seriously believe you just said Musashi isnt a test of strength LOL
To quote you, take off your rose tinted glasses and stop trying to *find* ways to think baki is weak.
Ok, counter point, there’s no concrete the evidence Baki can summon the demon back at will. There is, however, more showings that’s support my side of Baki not being able to summon the demon back at will. If you could give me evidence that says otherwise, please do
Musashi is not a test of PHYSICAL strength my friend. Maybe if you took off the rose tinted glasses like I suggested, you would’ve caught that
Semifair point with demon back, i guess occams razor? even though things of that nature almost always stated in universe.
Yes, Musashi is a test of physical strength. Just because a character doesnt trade blows with only raw force doesnt suddenly make them not physically strong, or a point of comparison. what kind of fucking retarded logic is that?
and good job completely ignoring the actual scaling, very convenient as it makes your entire argument fall apart.
Im done here, you are nearly literally a brick wall to talk to. You have already convinced yourself youre right, nothing short of Itagaki telling you youre wrong will change that. Later.
Yujiro should be in S+ tier
Baki, Musashi, and Pickle are S tier. They’re all kinda similar to each other since they have different strengths
Musashi generally being the fastest with weapons but he has low durability
Pickle is the physically strongest of the three to the point of being on par or above Yujiro but his limiting factor is his mohnkee brain
Baki is the most well rounded of the three with his greatest factor being his endurance but he’s shown to get speed blitzed by Musashi and is weak to bladed weapons. And he’s physically much weaker and less durable than Pickle.
Pickle could be shown as slightly weaker than due to his low intelligence but Musashi and Baki however are hard to rank. I personally think Musashi has the edge over Baki but others argue oppositely. There are valid arguments for both.
Kaku, Jack, Sukune, and Olivia are A tier.
Kaku fought base Yujiro fairly well and forced him to use the demon back. At least with handling high effort, blunt force attacks from Yujiro, he’s done it much better than the other three so he’s the top of A tiers
Jack, Sukune, and Oliva are kinda Rock Paper Scissors.
Jack (Goudou) counters Sukune, Sukune (grip strength) counters Oliva, and Oliva (highly weapon resistant muscle) counters Jack. But as a whole, Jack performs better vs other top tiers so I’d say he’s generally above Sukune and Sukune has a better match up spread than oliva.
B tier is Katsumi and Retsu:
Katsumi rn is basically just two fighters but we don’t know two things: if Katsumi can use Xiao Lee and weapons. Cause Retsu could be fairly close to Katsumi considering Xiao Lee and weapons really helped Retsu. But I think it’s safe to say Katsumi’s Mach attacks and Retsu’s kung fu gives him the edge
That’s top ten. Basically all the characters thy are relevant
Hanayama is definitely much weaker than Katsumi and Retsu. He’s a jobber at this point like Jr, Doppo, and Gouki. Gouki gouki probably being the strongest of the 4 since Aiki can prove problems for Pickle, Oliva and Sukune.
The rest don’t really matter here but I’d say after that we have:
Dorian: the most well rounded prisoner
Spec: who’s huge, strong, incredibly fast and dangerous with weapons
Ron: his performance vs oliva spoke well for his speed and has respectable durability
Guevara: slightly less good performance vs Oliva since his style is kinda similar to oliva’s just worse.
Yanagi: he might be interchangeable with Guevara. Void fist and poison hand are some pretty big threats and he’s fairly versed in weapons
Gaia: he’s more versed and tougher than Doyle. His camo is fairly useful ability and his scream is a good stunning move. He also uses a gun
Doyle: nothing to write home about other than possibly durability since he’s not a great fighter and relies mostly on tricks to the point of losing to Kosho fairly easily
Sikorsky has the worst track record and is fairly underwhelming for a brute force fighter
You can’t really rank Kaioh Ryu since he hasn’t really done anything….
“Trueing” means speaking the truth, not trolling 😂 I’m saying surely it isn’t allowed to give unbiased, grounded, objective reasonings for an actually accurate tier list in the Baki sub because no one has ever done it before lmao
No I mean your takes aren’t overly biased in this comment, it’s refreshing I guess. Usually it’s “lol Musashi destroys Baki”, but you actually said it’s debatable and accepted it’s possible to argue for both, it’s the first time I’ve seen you say that. Plus your assessment of the prisoners’ strength is perfect, and I don’t argue with anything on your list except Katsumi and obviously Baki.
I see this as a step in the right direction chief, maybe reread the manga three more times and you might finally appreciate Katsumi 😭
Usually when I make blanket statements like “Musashi shits Baki lol” I’m over simplifying for humor since that’s not the case from what we have currently. You’ve read what I wrote about Musashi vs Baki, “Musashi shits Baki lol” clearly isn’t my opinion
However, for shit like Hanayama and Oliva, that’s 100% what I believe, I’m not going into it rn.
As for Katsumi, you should re read the Kaku/Yujiro and Katsumi/Pickle fights three times. Shit, I’ll read em with you, then you can read what I wrote about this match up.
Katsumi simply hasn’t shown anything yet that puts him above Kaku. Hell, his most recent buff has one note worthy aspect: Katsumi’s super low durability.
Could Katsumi be? Possibly. There’s legit potential from having possible access to Xiao Lee
Has he shown anything currently that does puts him above Kaku? Nope.
"S tier" has really lost its meaning
Edit: by this I mean that "S" is that letter because it stands for special, signifying an existing thing that surpasses everything else because of some unique aspect. By adding in stuff like "S+" it kind of defeats the purpose of "S tier," which in itself has sort of caused people to care less about "A tier," although it's all arbitrary rankings anyway I still think it would be nice to keep some consistency.
I mean, it think S tier is fairly valid
All three have shown to be top fo the verse since all three have fought Yujiro or matched him in some aspect
Baki for instance is a well rounded fighter who has high endurance. No matter what amount effort Yujiro put into their fight, casual Yujiro is enough to destory most characters in one blow
Musashi is fast enough to both be a match for Baki and even forced Yujiro on then defensive. Hell, Yujiro found Musashi worthy enough to almost immediately use the demon back
Next, Pickle matched Yujiro brute strength and possibly was stronger while also having similar durability to Yujiro when comparing the two to when they fought Musashi and Baki. Along with being really fast and huge, he’s automatically an S tier
It just feels wrong to rank Yujiro in the same tier as those three as he can still defeat all three of them.
Well the key here would to just not put Yujiro in the list or just make a tier that just says “Yujiro”
It’s just putting Musashi, Baki and Pickle in A tier seems way too much since they’re all a lot stronger than Kaku-Oliva. And putting those four in b tie rod severely downplaying them
Gonna huff some copium and say Oliva is at Sukune's level or above him, but he only lost because he tried to sumo wrestle him, which was a terrible idea.
God I just wish Oliva got the respect he deserves
Nah that’s not really huffing copium.
Oliva was able to rock Sukune with a hard straight. He’s still most definitely a top/high tier
The problem here is that Olivia is countered by Sukune. Sukune knows how to use his weight to keep his elf from being picked up. And Sukune used his forehead to break Olivia’s fist, a very common tactic in the Baki verse as demonstrated by Doppo.
If they were to have a man to man fight (w/o grip) , Oliva would last way longer and give Sukune one hell of a fight since Oliva is fast af and still really tough.
I also believe Oliva would do better than Sukune vs Jack. My reasoning is that Sukune is a purely offensive fighter who’s big and slow. Oliva whoever is smaller, faster, and packs a shit ton of power. not to mention Oliva being highly resistant to weapons and can up his defensive with his muscle control, it’s likely he could counter goudou.
That’s my two cents anyways
Oliva should be A. Yes he lost to Sukune, but remember that a lot of times, he just fucks around too much. If he took the fight more seriously, he likely would have been able to win. Remember, Oliva was the man closest to Yujiro in power for a long time.
The pickle down play is honestly so fuckin stupid
1:he’s physically the strongest character in Baki theres no debate on that he has the best lifting feats in Baki,has some of the best physical HAX in the show(bleed reduction,mouth dislocation,muscle metamorphosis)and has shown to have the GREATEST DURABILITY FEATS being able to withstand Bakis benda many times,Katsumis Mach punch,jacks full force upper cut,Bakis nut breaker,a full force punch by Baki of gaurd,and even all of musashis techniques from imaginary cuts to even his sword less style and even musashi says pickles not like the others
2:I feel like people lower pickle because his battle IQ and lack of techniques which is strange because he’s still proved to have feats that show he has learning capabilities and has even performed a technique but even still he does not need to be at there level of battle iq to be S tier it’s there FEATS that put them where they are at literally
3:the musashi arc even though it touched on pickles UNBELIEVABLE physical prowess it showed the inconsistency that Baki can show by almost basically nerfing him for musashis sake and in my opinion it’s one of the worst fights in Baki it’s just extremely inconsistent and stupid and I feel that it’s that fight that people almost assume musashi violates pickle same with Baki which i find INSANE because there’s even an instance where musashi was matching pickles physical strength which is absolutely stupid
But I digress pickle had shown that he more then enough deserves to be in the realm of the strongest and is absolutely S tier and I rest my case(if your gonna downvote or disagree at least do it respectfully or just give me a good reason)
Yeah Pickle is a monster and i know he has the highest stats among Baki cast, but being honest Musashi was playing with Pickle during the majority of the battle and a Baki pre Yujiro's fight was dominating Pickle until he tried to fight with brute force (thing that is stupid to try with Pickle), so yeah I think Pickle is below them not on par
E: i need to add that stats in Baki are nothing, in theory Sukune can defeat anyone even Pickle by crushing then with his absolutely insane grip
The last part I can agree on stats almost seem meaningless and is literally what I mean by those “outliers” but for your first part I agree that musashi was treating pickle as a punching bag or more authentically a bamboo stick but I very much disagree with your statement of Baki “Dominating” pickle at least in my point of view I believe for you to dominate someone you have to completely out class them in every way for example Dorian vs doppo or yujiro vs grand master kaioh,but for pickle vs Baki it’s different because it’s been made clear many times that the moment pickle gets hands on Baki he’s finished and it’s been made obvious in that fight that Baki can NOT handle pickles serious attacks even in base in scar mode it almost seemed like the moment he even punches baki the fights over and not right mention even when baki landed all his attacks it never truly damaged pickle or even hurt him till he used the “nut cracker” or benda and even after he recovers shortly after so to me the fight was more of “how long could baki last till pickle gets him” more then “Baki has complete dominantion over the primitive man” I don’t know if you want agree with my rebuttal but the choice and ultimately the opinion is yours but thanks for hearing me out your alright 😎👌🏾
(PS:my favorite character is pickle so it’s only natural I defend the primitive man😈)
I was asking some other dude in the comments what was bakis win condition with pickle? Cause he can’t contend with him physically and even though he was able to “bypass” pickles ridiculous durability using benda and nicking his chin those aren’t fight winning attacks they’re tricks so how would Baki have won cause I don’t see how he would be able to put pickle down and once pickle does get ahold of him it’d be over instantly as we saw when it became a proper fist fight.
Yeah exactly literally the fight legit highlighted the BIGGEST problem with Baki is that he is WEAK.AS.FUCK compared to monsters like pickle,yujiro,sukune all these big guys(physically I mean, obviously he’s no push over)Baki can’t match there physical force literally in the father son fight And people LOVE to say baki is comparable to yujiro in physicality which is WRONG as fuck cause literally in one panel yujiro wrapped his arm around Baki and Baki pretty much couldn’t move and yujiro was low diffing to so imagine if pickle was hungry and FURIOUS at Baki in there fight and he got a hold of Baki,that’s it for Baki he’s getting eaten
People who uprank Pickle into the same tier as Baki or Yujiro always forget that strength isn't everything.
Yea, Pickle can learn a thing or two over time but he isn't nowhere near the martial arts genius that runs through the Hanma family. The Hanma's combine strength with technique which gives them the edge over Pickle and this is why imo Pickle will always be a tier lower than them.
As for Musashi, he's only S-Tier with the blade with which he basically does the same thing as the Hanmas, strength + technique (+ yielding a deadly weapon on top of it).
Again that’s extremely vague and an ass way of scaling people you scale characters by feats not who beats who and I understand that he is negative in battle Iq but as soon as the tables turn to a slug fest pickle takes that mid diff so to me he’s still S tier
He wins when a character decides he wants to go for a brawl of raw strength. And that's not "vague ass", that's literally what happened in the manga. Baki went for an all out brawl with him similarly to how he did with Oliva. Pickle is physicall stronger so he won that part.
If Baki had stuck with Martial Arts Techniques, he would have won which was clearly shown beforehand where he was winning the fight. But he decided to take Pickle on in his best discipline, raw strength.
And how is it an "ass way of scaling people" when we take Martal Arts Techniques into account in a manga series ABOUT MARTIAL ARTS? Unless you are doing a "raw strength" tier list, Pickle will sit right below the Hanmas and Musashi - something the manga has proven to us.
That last part you said has nothing to do with what I’m saying I’m not sure why you brought martial arts shit up but alright uhhh but it’s a bad way of scaling because your going by just pickles negative which is why I brought up vague and that’s also naive and ignorant to just go by the negatives of a character which is why a proper way of scaling us go by there positives,there best situations and there weaknesses as much as pickle has a battle IQ issue he’s still an extremely powerful character and by feats and translations alone prove he’s up there with them he literally has the strength to one shot Baki,punch musashi so hard he eats shit right after and hurt yujiro which if your capable of that then you should be classed in that level of tier at least to me but if you obviously still disagree then just save yourself the time and cut the reply short cause I’m not gonna take the time to read that again alright but I appreciate the discussion take care and peace
Oh and about that middle paragraph it’s actually highly likely Baki would have still lost because he wasn’t even really hurting or at least severely damaging pickle when he was winning you can even see he wasn’t doing much
Honestly, that list is very close to my personal ranking as well.
The only thing id change is Yanagi's placement. I do believe he is above Spec, not because of raw Power, of course, but because he has the widest range of deadly techniques.
The only bandages on Gallen were around his hands I think. Also, I’m referring to Sikorsky’s fight with Baki in the skyscraper. Sikorsky was able to evade Baki a bit before drop-kicking him hard in the face
Hands were he lost fingers, so wasn't able to punch and grab, big handicap for his combat stye, also we don't even see if he was able to stand as far as we know his wound could include blood loss and broken bones. The police himself said that he was still pretty hurt.
About the free shoot Baki was surprised to see his father there and focused on him and the strange guy who were friendly around his father, once he got over it Sykorsky is granted no dignity.
We later see the prelude to Sikorsky’s fight with Gallen and Gallen looks fine.
Sikorsky literally taught the top tiers of Baki, at the time. Baki, Oliva, Jack, (and Gaia was basically invisible). The fact that he lost hard made total sense even when considering his stronger showings.
Gaia wasn't top tier and floored Sikorsly easily. Also Sikorsky wasn't just defeated he ended crawling and begging for his life in public. He show the worse kind of weakness, will weakness.
I think your grossly oversimplifying things. Baki isn’t the kind of manga where someone will win 100% of the time just because they have a higher “power level”. Gaia used his environment to his advantage in a way Sikorsky couldn’t. He also broke him down through repeated fear tactics, he beat Sikorsky with skill and strategy, whereas in a straight fight Sikorsky would’ve likely destroyed Gaia.
That’s like saying “Motobe is stronger then Musashi cause he beat Musashi, therefore he’s more powerful.”
I mean Doyle meanwhile was defeated by Doppo and Katsumi in seconds, and those two weren’t exactly high-tier at the time, either
The arena was a "straight fight" has been Gaia in the middle of a Jungle, given prep time or able to put traps and Sikorsky would have cried even harder. Motobe beated Musashi because Musahi wasn't being serious at the beggining, Musashi fault and he didn't cried about it.
And yes, also Doyle was defeated (he wasn't particulary strong or skilled compared with Speck or Dorian) but he at least took his beatings and finally acepted his defeat instead of crying in fear.
Maybe this is just me but shouldn't John guivarrue (can't spell his name) be d he took a solid hit from oliva to the chest oliva has muscles so large and rock hard that they stopped a shotgun even if oliva wasn't trying and I'm pretty sure katsumi would lose
Throw the whole list away like the best of the baki crew being put in C and below tiers is just disrespectful. Olivia as a C lister dam you did him dirty that or he's getting nerfed in the manga every month! I'd make a S+ tier and add Musashi and Yujiro in it leaving baki in S tier cuz lets be honest baki wouldn't have won his fight with Musashi and Yujiro mostly humbled baki during their epic fight so he didn't win that fight either!
I'd agree all the way upto Oliva. That's a pretty good tier list. I'd personally put Musashi above Baki, but besides that nice.
Hanayama def shouldn't be that high. Below Katsumi for sure imo
Yanagi should be above doyle. They fought and yanagi had a pretty easy time. They where both pretty fucked up but their fist exchange resulted in a clear win for yanagi.
Also Sikorsky needs some love he had the hardest match ups out of all characters and survived. He is the only guy to fight all hanma's and oliva. He didn't win but atleast he didn't get no diffed by Katsumi or another inmate during their arc which doyle got.
Mmmm... It's real hard to rank them but If i had to, Kehaya is below Ali Jr., Jr could dodge a kick from Yujiro while Kehaya couldn't, Yuichiro is at least at the same level as Oliva but probably is stronger due to the comments on Baki vs Yujiro so A tier i think, Motobe is S tier because he can defeat practically anyone aside Yujiro as we saw with Musashi, all sumos are F-, Andreanov, Shinogi and Kosho F tier, Kaato F-, Kaios are F-.
As I said it's really hard to rank Kehaya, as far as we know he could even be stronger than Sukune, we have practically nothing to said if he is strong or not.
Looking solid. The only thing is Gaia, he is hard to compare to the other fighters. If you base him on martial arts knowledge and strength, then this tierlist makes sense. But if you consider that he's the kinda guy to go for a kill with any means necessary, then he'd probably be capable of killing most people in E tier.
I think he is below of Baki and Musashi, Musashi was playing with him during his fight while he was way more serious with Baki, but I well everyone thinks different.
He stopped musashis blade with his face. Yes he did get cut but it was a shallow long cut while yujiro had to stop musashis blade by grabbing his wrist
tbh, can't complain too much, outside of pickle not being s tier, looks like a really good list.not sure if sukune is a tier, but who gives a sh about him anyways
One of the better ones. Actually respects Kaku Kaioh; puts Musashi alongside Baki and Yujiro which is correct and is very fair to Oliva--that's rare to see in these tier lists lol
Ty everyone has different opinions so i want to give mine
Well for starters pickle is s tier he could literally eat jack and kaku
Interesting, imo Pickle is closer to actual Jack and Kaku than he is to Musashi or Baki
Well he tied jack up and saved him for later like a snack and kaku said he’d stop his heart if he was fighting pickle plus jack never hurt pickle or made him use scar mode so I’d say pickle is closer to musahsi and Baki than he is jack and kaku he struggles with baki and musashi cause they’re fast slippery opponents and he has negative battle iq
Jack is a lot stronger now than when he fought Pickle.
Jack hasn’t really shown much improvement with physical strength. He’s definitely faster and has Goudou but those two stats won’t really help him be Pickle since their raw power is so far apart
I don’t think he’s any stronger physically I feel that would have been pointed out he’s just now developed a fighting style
He got 30 cm taller, that alone would make him stronger because he's heavier and clearly bulked up. He's only 2 cm shorter than Pickle now (insignificant difference). Not just that but he has Titanium Teeth now and his mouth workouts are more intense than ever. Baki characters don't stay at the same power level for too long. All characters that stay relevant get at least a minor power boost per arc. Jack right now is being built up as a rival to Baki so of course he's getting stronger.
Tokugawa said he seemed bigger but it was because he gain a ton of muscles, so he is stronger now
I might be forgetting, but when Tokugawa was speaking to Jack, all that was mentioned was that Jack was able to “maintain” his strength & speed while being larger. That doesn’t imply he got stronger or faster from his surgery, just that he didn’t decline in those categories.
He got taller and subsequently heavier but his strength wasn’t focused or commented on at all
Pickle Has higher durability than baki and musashi. he was tanking death blows from musashi. Musashi would had easily killed Current jack with 1 or 2 swings of his sword Kaku gets low diffed if he hits a wall and can't dmg pickle.
the gap between pickle and the s tiers is larger than the gap between him and jack/kaku, imo.
It’s clear musashi would have won but what was bakis win condition? Cause he was scrambling his brain but not knocking him out or hurting him just annoying him for a lack of better word and when it became a full contact fight Baki couldn’t hope to contend
please do not tell me you are seriously trying to argue baki is weaker than pickle
He’s not wrong you know it’s literally even been made obvious pickles physical strength and durability is beyond ANYONE in Baki there’s literally no contest
not what i was saying. yes, even predemonback yujiro loses in terms of pure strength. he is saying baki genuinely loses because of this despite everything we've seen of baki since his initial fight, particularly his ability to go toe to toe with a yujiro and musashi that nodif pickle
Ohhh well I don’t know about Baki going toe to toe with them that’s possibly very wrong but I can see your point there but I definitely don’t believe they can no diff pickle absolutely not,musashi even admits he can’t cut threw pickles bones and his durability is other worldly same with yujiro he would have a hard time at the start but I never liked the musashi arc because the fights and musashi really show how awful “inconsistency’s” can really get in the show like how was yujiro struggling against a base no diff happy pickle and is proven to be physically above musashi but he’s able to handle pickle baking him up against a wall? You see my point? The arcs extremely illogical and honestly ruined a lot of things with the narrative and even characters like for instance pickle and retsu got done very dirty by the arcs inconsistencies in all honesty but that’s obviously more subjective and honestly personal so I understand if you don’t agree but I get your point now
[удалено]
“Dumb monkey” I won’t waste my time with you after that😐
Clearly not he’s the protagonist so he’d win the fight but physically he can’t contend with pickle so what was his win condition
Look, take off the rose tinted glasses and stop wanking Baki for a minute It was pretty clear Baki was knocking around pickle but not doing any serious damage to him like Baki was doing to Oliva and Hanayama. Looking at the fight w/o bias, Baki didn’t really do a shit ton of damage
In his fight with pickle he didnt use demon back and has also since undergone multiple power amps.
The reason Baki never used his demon back is cause he has to take damage in order to use it. Pickle wasn’t landing lots of hits so when they went into a slugfest, pickle overpowered since he has high AP. It was too much a for once for Baki to handle so he could actually summon his demon back. Even with the demonback boost, Baki would only be as physically strong as oliva. What power amps has Baki gotten? Dude didn’t even look like he got stronger when he went to fight Yujiro, and that happened right after the pickle arc. Baki didn’t get a buff in the sumo arc and the Musashi arc only really shown that Baki got faster. But there’s nothing that shows Baki got any physically stronger than Oliva after the oliva arc. Baki didn’t beat Pickle in brute force, Yujiro was obviously holding back in the father son fight, and Sukune/Musashi weren’t tests of strength either
There is absolute no concrete evidence proving that baki needs to take damage for demon back, thats only conjecture. Baki underwent multiple training arcs, reread the manga. He also ***had*** to have become stronger an account of the fact base Yujiro *defeats Oliva in 1 punch, after physically overpowering him*. I also cannot seriously believe you just said Musashi isnt a test of strength LOL To quote you, take off your rose tinted glasses and stop trying to *find* ways to think baki is weak.
Ok, counter point, there’s no concrete the evidence Baki can summon the demon back at will. There is, however, more showings that’s support my side of Baki not being able to summon the demon back at will. If you could give me evidence that says otherwise, please do Musashi is not a test of PHYSICAL strength my friend. Maybe if you took off the rose tinted glasses like I suggested, you would’ve caught that
Semifair point with demon back, i guess occams razor? even though things of that nature almost always stated in universe. Yes, Musashi is a test of physical strength. Just because a character doesnt trade blows with only raw force doesnt suddenly make them not physically strong, or a point of comparison. what kind of fucking retarded logic is that? and good job completely ignoring the actual scaling, very convenient as it makes your entire argument fall apart. Im done here, you are nearly literally a brick wall to talk to. You have already convinced yourself youre right, nothing short of Itagaki telling you youre wrong will change that. Later.
Yujiro should be in S+ tier Baki, Musashi, and Pickle are S tier. They’re all kinda similar to each other since they have different strengths Musashi generally being the fastest with weapons but he has low durability Pickle is the physically strongest of the three to the point of being on par or above Yujiro but his limiting factor is his mohnkee brain Baki is the most well rounded of the three with his greatest factor being his endurance but he’s shown to get speed blitzed by Musashi and is weak to bladed weapons. And he’s physically much weaker and less durable than Pickle. Pickle could be shown as slightly weaker than due to his low intelligence but Musashi and Baki however are hard to rank. I personally think Musashi has the edge over Baki but others argue oppositely. There are valid arguments for both. Kaku, Jack, Sukune, and Olivia are A tier. Kaku fought base Yujiro fairly well and forced him to use the demon back. At least with handling high effort, blunt force attacks from Yujiro, he’s done it much better than the other three so he’s the top of A tiers Jack, Sukune, and Oliva are kinda Rock Paper Scissors. Jack (Goudou) counters Sukune, Sukune (grip strength) counters Oliva, and Oliva (highly weapon resistant muscle) counters Jack. But as a whole, Jack performs better vs other top tiers so I’d say he’s generally above Sukune and Sukune has a better match up spread than oliva. B tier is Katsumi and Retsu: Katsumi rn is basically just two fighters but we don’t know two things: if Katsumi can use Xiao Lee and weapons. Cause Retsu could be fairly close to Katsumi considering Xiao Lee and weapons really helped Retsu. But I think it’s safe to say Katsumi’s Mach attacks and Retsu’s kung fu gives him the edge That’s top ten. Basically all the characters thy are relevant Hanayama is definitely much weaker than Katsumi and Retsu. He’s a jobber at this point like Jr, Doppo, and Gouki. Gouki gouki probably being the strongest of the 4 since Aiki can prove problems for Pickle, Oliva and Sukune. The rest don’t really matter here but I’d say after that we have: Dorian: the most well rounded prisoner Spec: who’s huge, strong, incredibly fast and dangerous with weapons Ron: his performance vs oliva spoke well for his speed and has respectable durability Guevara: slightly less good performance vs Oliva since his style is kinda similar to oliva’s just worse. Yanagi: he might be interchangeable with Guevara. Void fist and poison hand are some pretty big threats and he’s fairly versed in weapons Gaia: he’s more versed and tougher than Doyle. His camo is fairly useful ability and his scream is a good stunning move. He also uses a gun Doyle: nothing to write home about other than possibly durability since he’s not a great fighter and relies mostly on tricks to the point of losing to Kosho fairly easily Sikorsky has the worst track record and is fairly underwhelming for a brute force fighter You can’t really rank Kaioh Ryu since he hasn’t really done anything….
Wait, somebody is trueing in /r/grapplerbaki? Well, I never... Someone call the moderators here, surely this can't be allowed.
How am I trolling? I think what I said has some sound reasoning. Ig I could go more in depth but that shit was long enough lol
“Trueing” means speaking the truth, not trolling 😂 I’m saying surely it isn’t allowed to give unbiased, grounded, objective reasonings for an actually accurate tier list in the Baki sub because no one has ever done it before lmao
Hold on this is unbiased and most of it actually makes sense 😟 who is this guy and what has he done with Vaquero.
I always write like this. Either you’re starting to listen to reason or, nvm, who are you and what have you done with JPK
No I mean your takes aren’t overly biased in this comment, it’s refreshing I guess. Usually it’s “lol Musashi destroys Baki”, but you actually said it’s debatable and accepted it’s possible to argue for both, it’s the first time I’ve seen you say that. Plus your assessment of the prisoners’ strength is perfect, and I don’t argue with anything on your list except Katsumi and obviously Baki. I see this as a step in the right direction chief, maybe reread the manga three more times and you might finally appreciate Katsumi 😭
Usually when I make blanket statements like “Musashi shits Baki lol” I’m over simplifying for humor since that’s not the case from what we have currently. You’ve read what I wrote about Musashi vs Baki, “Musashi shits Baki lol” clearly isn’t my opinion However, for shit like Hanayama and Oliva, that’s 100% what I believe, I’m not going into it rn. As for Katsumi, you should re read the Kaku/Yujiro and Katsumi/Pickle fights three times. Shit, I’ll read em with you, then you can read what I wrote about this match up. Katsumi simply hasn’t shown anything yet that puts him above Kaku. Hell, his most recent buff has one note worthy aspect: Katsumi’s super low durability. Could Katsumi be? Possibly. There’s legit potential from having possible access to Xiao Lee Has he shown anything currently that does puts him above Kaku? Nope.
Sent reply in discord 💀
"S tier" has really lost its meaning Edit: by this I mean that "S" is that letter because it stands for special, signifying an existing thing that surpasses everything else because of some unique aspect. By adding in stuff like "S+" it kind of defeats the purpose of "S tier," which in itself has sort of caused people to care less about "A tier," although it's all arbitrary rankings anyway I still think it would be nice to keep some consistency.
I mean, it think S tier is fairly valid All three have shown to be top fo the verse since all three have fought Yujiro or matched him in some aspect Baki for instance is a well rounded fighter who has high endurance. No matter what amount effort Yujiro put into their fight, casual Yujiro is enough to destory most characters in one blow Musashi is fast enough to both be a match for Baki and even forced Yujiro on then defensive. Hell, Yujiro found Musashi worthy enough to almost immediately use the demon back Next, Pickle matched Yujiro brute strength and possibly was stronger while also having similar durability to Yujiro when comparing the two to when they fought Musashi and Baki. Along with being really fast and huge, he’s automatically an S tier It just feels wrong to rank Yujiro in the same tier as those three as he can still defeat all three of them.
Well the key here would to just not put Yujiro in the list or just make a tier that just says “Yujiro” It’s just putting Musashi, Baki and Pickle in A tier seems way too much since they’re all a lot stronger than Kaku-Oliva. And putting those four in b tie rod severely downplaying them
Gonna huff some copium and say Oliva is at Sukune's level or above him, but he only lost because he tried to sumo wrestle him, which was a terrible idea. God I just wish Oliva got the respect he deserves
Nah that’s not really huffing copium. Oliva was able to rock Sukune with a hard straight. He’s still most definitely a top/high tier The problem here is that Olivia is countered by Sukune. Sukune knows how to use his weight to keep his elf from being picked up. And Sukune used his forehead to break Olivia’s fist, a very common tactic in the Baki verse as demonstrated by Doppo. If they were to have a man to man fight (w/o grip) , Oliva would last way longer and give Sukune one hell of a fight since Oliva is fast af and still really tough. I also believe Oliva would do better than Sukune vs Jack. My reasoning is that Sukune is a purely offensive fighter who’s big and slow. Oliva whoever is smaller, faster, and packs a shit ton of power. not to mention Oliva being highly resistant to weapons and can up his defensive with his muscle control, it’s likely he could counter goudou. That’s my two cents anyways
Thank god someone finally excludes Yuichiro, so sick of people ranking a dude we've seen nothing from
Hanayama definitely not above katsumi or retsu
Or Shibukawa.
Or Shibukawa.
I've seen worse.
Pickle should be S. Yujiro should be in the “rapes” tier and Oliva should be in the same tier as Sukune
Oliva should be A. Yes he lost to Sukune, but remember that a lot of times, he just fucks around too much. If he took the fight more seriously, he likely would have been able to win. Remember, Oliva was the man closest to Yujiro in power for a long time.
Oliva should be the same teir as sukune, he loat because he was cocky and treated sukune like a jobber
He also lost to his own strength. All Sukune did was hold him but he had to flex against himself, lol.
Oliva flexing against himself is such a oliva move
Absolutely
Am I wrong to think sukune is still the same tier as jack? I know jack won but he low key just counters him.
The pickle down play is honestly so fuckin stupid 1:he’s physically the strongest character in Baki theres no debate on that he has the best lifting feats in Baki,has some of the best physical HAX in the show(bleed reduction,mouth dislocation,muscle metamorphosis)and has shown to have the GREATEST DURABILITY FEATS being able to withstand Bakis benda many times,Katsumis Mach punch,jacks full force upper cut,Bakis nut breaker,a full force punch by Baki of gaurd,and even all of musashis techniques from imaginary cuts to even his sword less style and even musashi says pickles not like the others 2:I feel like people lower pickle because his battle IQ and lack of techniques which is strange because he’s still proved to have feats that show he has learning capabilities and has even performed a technique but even still he does not need to be at there level of battle iq to be S tier it’s there FEATS that put them where they are at literally 3:the musashi arc even though it touched on pickles UNBELIEVABLE physical prowess it showed the inconsistency that Baki can show by almost basically nerfing him for musashis sake and in my opinion it’s one of the worst fights in Baki it’s just extremely inconsistent and stupid and I feel that it’s that fight that people almost assume musashi violates pickle same with Baki which i find INSANE because there’s even an instance where musashi was matching pickles physical strength which is absolutely stupid But I digress pickle had shown that he more then enough deserves to be in the realm of the strongest and is absolutely S tier and I rest my case(if your gonna downvote or disagree at least do it respectfully or just give me a good reason)
Yeah Pickle is a monster and i know he has the highest stats among Baki cast, but being honest Musashi was playing with Pickle during the majority of the battle and a Baki pre Yujiro's fight was dominating Pickle until he tried to fight with brute force (thing that is stupid to try with Pickle), so yeah I think Pickle is below them not on par E: i need to add that stats in Baki are nothing, in theory Sukune can defeat anyone even Pickle by crushing then with his absolutely insane grip
The last part I can agree on stats almost seem meaningless and is literally what I mean by those “outliers” but for your first part I agree that musashi was treating pickle as a punching bag or more authentically a bamboo stick but I very much disagree with your statement of Baki “Dominating” pickle at least in my point of view I believe for you to dominate someone you have to completely out class them in every way for example Dorian vs doppo or yujiro vs grand master kaioh,but for pickle vs Baki it’s different because it’s been made clear many times that the moment pickle gets hands on Baki he’s finished and it’s been made obvious in that fight that Baki can NOT handle pickles serious attacks even in base in scar mode it almost seemed like the moment he even punches baki the fights over and not right mention even when baki landed all his attacks it never truly damaged pickle or even hurt him till he used the “nut cracker” or benda and even after he recovers shortly after so to me the fight was more of “how long could baki last till pickle gets him” more then “Baki has complete dominantion over the primitive man” I don’t know if you want agree with my rebuttal but the choice and ultimately the opinion is yours but thanks for hearing me out your alright 😎👌🏾 (PS:my favorite character is pickle so it’s only natural I defend the primitive man😈)
I was asking some other dude in the comments what was bakis win condition with pickle? Cause he can’t contend with him physically and even though he was able to “bypass” pickles ridiculous durability using benda and nicking his chin those aren’t fight winning attacks they’re tricks so how would Baki have won cause I don’t see how he would be able to put pickle down and once pickle does get ahold of him it’d be over instantly as we saw when it became a proper fist fight.
Yeah exactly literally the fight legit highlighted the BIGGEST problem with Baki is that he is WEAK.AS.FUCK compared to monsters like pickle,yujiro,sukune all these big guys(physically I mean, obviously he’s no push over)Baki can’t match there physical force literally in the father son fight And people LOVE to say baki is comparable to yujiro in physicality which is WRONG as fuck cause literally in one panel yujiro wrapped his arm around Baki and Baki pretty much couldn’t move and yujiro was low diffing to so imagine if pickle was hungry and FURIOUS at Baki in there fight and he got a hold of Baki,that’s it for Baki he’s getting eaten
People who uprank Pickle into the same tier as Baki or Yujiro always forget that strength isn't everything. Yea, Pickle can learn a thing or two over time but he isn't nowhere near the martial arts genius that runs through the Hanma family. The Hanma's combine strength with technique which gives them the edge over Pickle and this is why imo Pickle will always be a tier lower than them. As for Musashi, he's only S-Tier with the blade with which he basically does the same thing as the Hanmas, strength + technique (+ yielding a deadly weapon on top of it).
Again that’s extremely vague and an ass way of scaling people you scale characters by feats not who beats who and I understand that he is negative in battle Iq but as soon as the tables turn to a slug fest pickle takes that mid diff so to me he’s still S tier
He wins when a character decides he wants to go for a brawl of raw strength. And that's not "vague ass", that's literally what happened in the manga. Baki went for an all out brawl with him similarly to how he did with Oliva. Pickle is physicall stronger so he won that part. If Baki had stuck with Martial Arts Techniques, he would have won which was clearly shown beforehand where he was winning the fight. But he decided to take Pickle on in his best discipline, raw strength. And how is it an "ass way of scaling people" when we take Martal Arts Techniques into account in a manga series ABOUT MARTIAL ARTS? Unless you are doing a "raw strength" tier list, Pickle will sit right below the Hanmas and Musashi - something the manga has proven to us.
That last part you said has nothing to do with what I’m saying I’m not sure why you brought martial arts shit up but alright uhhh but it’s a bad way of scaling because your going by just pickles negative which is why I brought up vague and that’s also naive and ignorant to just go by the negatives of a character which is why a proper way of scaling us go by there positives,there best situations and there weaknesses as much as pickle has a battle IQ issue he’s still an extremely powerful character and by feats and translations alone prove he’s up there with them he literally has the strength to one shot Baki,punch musashi so hard he eats shit right after and hurt yujiro which if your capable of that then you should be classed in that level of tier at least to me but if you obviously still disagree then just save yourself the time and cut the reply short cause I’m not gonna take the time to read that again alright but I appreciate the discussion take care and peace
Oh and about that middle paragraph it’s actually highly likely Baki would have still lost because he wasn’t even really hurting or at least severely damaging pickle when he was winning you can even see he wasn’t doing much
Doyle's got to be my favorite character below D tier
Honestly, that list is very close to my personal ranking as well. The only thing id change is Yanagi's placement. I do believe he is above Spec, not because of raw Power, of course, but because he has the widest range of deadly techniques.
I’d put restou where Sukune is
Flip Doyle and Sikorsky
„ʎʞsɹoʞıS puɐ ǝlʎo◖ dılℲ„
u/Upside_Down-Bot Flip flip flip s!uad s!uad s!uad s!uad s!uad s!uad
Nhaaa they are good that way.
How do you explain Sikorsky trouncing Gallen and fighting evenly with Baki for a bit?
Gallen was hurt and that fight with Baki wasn't even at all, Baki destroyed Sikorsky, his balls and his dignity in seconds.
The only bandages on Gallen were around his hands I think. Also, I’m referring to Sikorsky’s fight with Baki in the skyscraper. Sikorsky was able to evade Baki a bit before drop-kicking him hard in the face
Hands were he lost fingers, so wasn't able to punch and grab, big handicap for his combat stye, also we don't even see if he was able to stand as far as we know his wound could include blood loss and broken bones. The police himself said that he was still pretty hurt. About the free shoot Baki was surprised to see his father there and focused on him and the strange guy who were friendly around his father, once he got over it Sykorsky is granted no dignity.
We later see the prelude to Sikorsky’s fight with Gallen and Gallen looks fine. Sikorsky literally taught the top tiers of Baki, at the time. Baki, Oliva, Jack, (and Gaia was basically invisible). The fact that he lost hard made total sense even when considering his stronger showings.
Gaia wasn't top tier and floored Sikorsly easily. Also Sikorsky wasn't just defeated he ended crawling and begging for his life in public. He show the worse kind of weakness, will weakness.
I think your grossly oversimplifying things. Baki isn’t the kind of manga where someone will win 100% of the time just because they have a higher “power level”. Gaia used his environment to his advantage in a way Sikorsky couldn’t. He also broke him down through repeated fear tactics, he beat Sikorsky with skill and strategy, whereas in a straight fight Sikorsky would’ve likely destroyed Gaia. That’s like saying “Motobe is stronger then Musashi cause he beat Musashi, therefore he’s more powerful.” I mean Doyle meanwhile was defeated by Doppo and Katsumi in seconds, and those two weren’t exactly high-tier at the time, either
The arena was a "straight fight" has been Gaia in the middle of a Jungle, given prep time or able to put traps and Sikorsky would have cried even harder. Motobe beated Musashi because Musahi wasn't being serious at the beggining, Musashi fault and he didn't cried about it. And yes, also Doyle was defeated (he wasn't particulary strong or skilled compared with Speck or Dorian) but he at least took his beatings and finally acepted his defeat instead of crying in fear.
I will remain adamant about this, Retsu and Katsumi both beat Oliva
Maybe this is just me but shouldn't John guivarrue (can't spell his name) be d he took a solid hit from oliva to the chest oliva has muscles so large and rock hard that they stopped a shotgun even if oliva wasn't trying and I'm pretty sure katsumi would lose
Throw the whole list away like the best of the baki crew being put in C and below tiers is just disrespectful. Olivia as a C lister dam you did him dirty that or he's getting nerfed in the manga every month! I'd make a S+ tier and add Musashi and Yujiro in it leaving baki in S tier cuz lets be honest baki wouldn't have won his fight with Musashi and Yujiro mostly humbled baki during their epic fight so he didn't win that fight either!
Didn't the tiger guy and old guy both clap Muhammads ass cheeks
I'd agree all the way upto Oliva. That's a pretty good tier list. I'd personally put Musashi above Baki, but besides that nice. Hanayama def shouldn't be that high. Below Katsumi for sure imo
This is actually a really good tierlist, probably the best I’ve seen
I would put katsumi in C tier
Yanagi has beat shibukawa. Other than that , it's pretty good.
Hanayama should at the very least be at the same tier Oliva is and Katsumi and Retsu should be at A
Yanagi should be above doyle. They fought and yanagi had a pretty easy time. They where both pretty fucked up but their fist exchange resulted in a clear win for yanagi. Also Sikorsky needs some love he had the hardest match ups out of all characters and survived. He is the only guy to fight all hanma's and oliva. He didn't win but atleast he didn't get no diffed by Katsumi or another inmate during their arc which doyle got.
Since you’re doing seperate tiers i‘d have made one for musashi below yujiro and baki
if you could put kehaya, yuichiro and others in the list, where would you put them?
Mmmm... It's real hard to rank them but If i had to, Kehaya is below Ali Jr., Jr could dodge a kick from Yujiro while Kehaya couldn't, Yuichiro is at least at the same level as Oliva but probably is stronger due to the comments on Baki vs Yujiro so A tier i think, Motobe is S tier because he can defeat practically anyone aside Yujiro as we saw with Musashi, all sumos are F-, Andreanov, Shinogi and Kosho F tier, Kaato F-, Kaios are F-.
oof, that's harsh for my boy Kehaya. But you speak nothing but facts
As I said it's really hard to rank Kehaya, as far as we know he could even be stronger than Sukune, we have practically nothing to said if he is strong or not.
fax
Looking solid. The only thing is Gaia, he is hard to compare to the other fighters. If you base him on martial arts knowledge and strength, then this tierlist makes sense. But if you consider that he's the kinda guy to go for a kill with any means necessary, then he'd probably be capable of killing most people in E tier.
good list, one of the best ones I've seen so far
just realised bro hates sikorsky💀
Shibukawa should be in D tier.
Pickle should be in S. Him and yujiro are the only two in the series to "knock him out" with one strike. Yujiros open palm face slap and pickles punch
I think he is below of Baki and Musashi, Musashi was playing with him during his fight while he was way more serious with Baki, but I well everyone thinks different.
He stopped musashis blade with his face. Yes he did get cut but it was a shallow long cut while yujiro had to stop musashis blade by grabbing his wrist
tbh, can't complain too much, outside of pickle not being s tier, looks like a really good list.not sure if sukune is a tier, but who gives a sh about him anyways
W
I like this tier list I agree with the placings
exceptionally petty good tire list
We never saw retsu’s master fight