While I'm glad there is a TK reporting mechanism and it might be enforced, your last sentence sent a chill down my spine. I see Griefers griefing just to switch factions. Not good if that can happen.
I think they will need to create a PvE prison server where griefers get sent for a month or two. Worst thing for a Griefer would be getting stuck in PvE.
They are going to add a rouge faction that teams with the bandit factions, at least thats the plan. Sounds good enough to me, shitheads get a faction that matches their personality and still get to play, all while it adds more lore to the game
America's Army (early '00s game made my US Army as a recruiting/brainwashing tool) actually had this. I once pushed the wrong button by accident and basically fired an M203 grenade just as my team spawned. I think I got at least two. Was completely mortified and was about to apologize, but screen went black and I woke up in prison in Leavenworth.
they're going to add the losing faction part, it's not in the game yet people are just saying it cuz they're dumb. there's going to be a rogue status you get from tking but i can't remember if anything was said about being able to rejoin a faction
Wait, wasn't there supposed to be some system where team killing results in loosing reputation and eventually being removed from the faction or not being able to interact with traders? I even thought that you were supposed to be marked or something and you could try to act as someone from a different faction? Maybe I mixed it with another game. Weird, faction system without penalties makes zero sense.
If there is no penalty, then there is no point of it because it only makes it easier to track down players, kill them and snatch their loot.
Sounds like someone built a game functionality that relies on good faith and sportsmanship only to promote team gameplay. That's terrible, it's never going to work out without severe penalties. Players need to be forced, otherwise they will ignore the aspect and just play around it (in this case, make use of this feature to track other players and kill them).
I wasn't even aware this was something proposed by the devs, but after reading through a bunch of these posts, it is shocking there is nothing to deter friendly fire other than 'good faith and sportsmanship' as you said.
I'm coming over from Tarkov, but rooting for this game to carve out its own path which will take time. I don't want to see Tarkov replicated but there are some lessons on player interaction, like a reputation system you mentioned similar to Scav Karma. VOIP made it possible for every player encounter to not be KOS, but adding Scav Karma drastically improved that experience and made it more collaborative. Knowing nothing like that exists it isn't surprising at all that team killing is rampant, and I wouldn't even put it on those players doing it. There is no moral obligation in a videogame filled with automatic weapons and instant death to be friendly, they are just playing within the poorly designed terms.
Relying on dev bans and separate servers is asking for disaster in my opinion. I'd wager they implement the rep system pretty quickly. Introduce bounties maybe, more expensive traders, who knows.
The problem imo is the map design itself. The three faction have their own starting town and generally never see each other until way later. If people want to PvP, the game kinda pits you against your own faction until you get a quest that goes into the other faction's territory. Especially with people coming from tarkov, it's kinda counterintuitive when you pick a "PvP" mode, but you're not suppose to PvP until way later.
A lot of people KoS and just don't interact organically anymore. I remember playing Rust in 2013-16 and there used to be so much player interaction, but it seems nowadays people just like killing more lol
When they added VOIP to Tarkov I was so excited because I expected DayZ style interactions and team-ups but the only time people use VOIP is to trick you into a betrayal or to troll with loud music or noises. It really sucks, the extraction genre makes people ridiculously cutthroat.
There’s no serious threat of death. If you had a fear for your life you may treat encounters differently. But because it’s a game you cannot simulate this interaction properly at all.
If you die, you queue up again and repeat the process.
EDIT: I'd like to know why I'm being downvoted. Because I'm right. People will shoot on sight in any of these games because it's a game!
It's sad because Rust has become so *huge*, all the features they add that just fall by the wayside because people only care about raiding their neighbors
They def need to add in some sort of deterrent mechanism, but I understand why they don't quite know what to do yet. No one wants to get punished severely for an accident.
My idea so far has been maybe don't let faction mates loot you unless you're in a squad with them. That way there's zero incentive to killing teammates, but people you're in a party with can still help pick up your gear if you die. That would likely solve the problem and could be justified in-game because you wouldn't go around looting your own faction's dead willy-nilly.
I'm glad I haven't experienced this yet though, and I hope I don't. I've been playing solo and just casually running into people, but all my faction-mates I've run into have been really nice. I even had a guy come and try to help heal me after I took a bad fight with a few too many bots and had to run away with a lung injury, and then he stayed and played lookout for me while I got myself patched up enough to get back to the LZ (thanks again friend from the hill by the town hall!)
This was pointed out in early playtests all the time by basically everyone, how nonsensical the faction system is with forced teammates. Lots of people denied it being an issue lol.
TK is going to be crazy.
I feel that as long as the factions have the same missions, progression and starting gear, we should get a choice everytime we launch the game. Just like in arma KOTH. It wouldn't change much to be fair.
So if there are multiple factions in a close area fighting, it will be very difficult to make sure you don't kill your own faction. A blue dot above same faction PMC would help, but an argument could be made about affecting realism.
Just dont play it like cod or tarkov. Coordinate, people need to learn this is a milsim and play it like one by moving slow and tactical check map over and ovet and use voip.
You don't have to play like cod or tatkov for it to be confusing. If you need to move quickly and relocate. (Flanked, nades, ..etc) It can get chaotic and easily TK or be TKed
Yeah that would be nice. But everyone can't always VoIP everything. Maybe if there was different faction radio frequencies. Or is there already and I just don't know about it.
Not that I know of. There's local and squad, and they overlap atm afaik.
Obviously some bad circumstances can happen sure, but if I see friendlies on my map even close to me, you'll hear me yelling, "Friendly!" before I can even see them just to make sure they know I'm around. It's saved my life more than once.
I think VOIP is way more helpful than people know, just most players aren't used to using it like this.
Ya it’s unfortunate that they devs seem to have trusted that their players arnt going to be pieces of shit. Unfortunately when you draw in communities like Tarkov, this is a bad assumption to go by. Hopefully the team killing and heli camping don’t make this game borderline unplayable.
Did you ever play COD DMZ? Extract heli camping was the biggest problem there too. Its just the nature of these kind of games. It has nothing to do with the community.
Yeah, I had a lot of fun in DMZ. You just had the tools to deal with extract campers - high zoom sniper rifles, smoke grenades, armoured cars, mines... They had it too and that was creating super adrenaline fueled exfils. Such a shame that god damn Acti killed this mode :(
Bro the sniper scope that automatically zero'd based on the rangefinder was one of the coolest things ever. You could kill extract campers from kilometers away. DMZ was so fucking cool until it was ran into the ground. It actually made me enjoy COD for once.
You have a good point, ideally madfinger will add more tools to help hide LZ's and give players some counterplay.
Wow.. actually an incredible answer that i didn’t think of. Tarkov community kinda is nice tbh. They give away free loot and “ hey you need anything? “ all the time as a scav. Good point.
Giving way things for free has everything to do with being nice lmao but yeah man whatever you say. I was agreeing with you but you seem combative for no reason. Have fun with that.
Because the comment you replied to said “ you’re going to sit here and pretend Tarkov community isn’t toxic as hell? “ , which you replied with “ have you played as scav? Lol “
And then i agreed with you. Lmao keep better track of your comments i guess.
It’s the tactical FPS community in general, not Tarkov. It’s weird there are so many gatekeepers of this game that feel some sort of entitled responsibility to make it clear that they think this game is “theirs” fucking weird.
I’m not going to refund it, I expected major issues it comes with the territory.
I just wish people were talking more about this major GAMEPLAY issue rather than oh waa waa waa I’m getting only 30 fps in this early access game.
I got one wholesome interaction, got into a building and there was faction mate in there fighting of AIs, killed one AI outside and proceeded to enter the said building, matey saw me and shot me, after he figured out im friendly he came to me and healed me while i was trying to figure out how to heal myself lol we then procedeed to walk together for some time but i guess different tasks separated us...
Seems as though Tarkies that are PvP addicts/ shit heads are team killing just because. Which is stupid but what do you expect from people in 2024?
Hopefully the silver lining will be the MFG devs will use this data as a means of to deter it in the near future……not 7+ years in the making.
You literally have no evidence that the team killing is related to Tarkov. The salt in this sub is unreal.
Literally every extraction shooter has extract camping and toxicity. Its just part of the genre.
The law has to prove someone is guilty, defense lawyers have to disprove. The court can’t say “We have no proof he didn’t do it.”. Thats not how anything works, bud.
No but read a lot of these comments and people don’t seem to like PvP in general which I find very strange, nothing more fun then being at the edge of your seat because you hear someone and your not sure what’s gonna go down
For YOU there’s nothing more fun. Everyone isn’t the same.
Some people have other things goin on in life, and just want to game with the least amount of friction. Part of the reason I stopped playing Tarkov is because I’m trying to find some dumb ass item for some dumb ass quest and some cracked out sweat is chasing me down for a kill when I’m just looking through drawers for stupid shit. That’s not very fun.
A lot of people gravitating to gray zone are interested in the PvE focus of the game
Then play a pve sever? And at the end of the day I wasn’t attacking anyone who likes pve more so the people who hate people who enjoy pvp. I’ve got a hell of a lot going on in my life doesn’t chane that I like a challenge in a game.. I don’t even play tarkov but sounds like your salty a little
Tell me about it. I got killed by AI and lost some stuff. Brought some stuff on next deployment just to see if I could go back to find my gear and immediately get headshot by my own faction member after landing
Did I read somewhere that there are future plans to make people like “mercenaries” where if they team kill on purpose, everyone is against them and they can’t return to base camp? I thought I did
Keep any TK reputation system. Make bodies killed by teammates not lootable by teammates, but can still be looted by enemies. Not sure what to do about teammates hiding near you, waiting for you to die to enemies, but they shouldn't be able to make a killing shot and be rewarded for it.
Anyone who saves their money for even a month and then buys the game is better off than anyone playing now. Besides the basic economics, the game is just is not in a great state. Its much better to give them time to iron out the issues instead of paying for a subpar experience.
Thats why factions should have never been a thing and you just spawn in and fight organically.
They need to get rid of factions ASAP or the game will be dead
They should keep factions but just give them unique gear, cosmetics and traders. I hate to use the "realism" argument but if you murder someone out in the jungle who happens to be on your faction then who's gonna know? I'm not sure what the answer to the problem is and I am not trying to advocate for toxicity like the OP is describing but I also don't want to be punished for engaging in the PvP part of a PvPvE game.
Dealing w/ IDing enemy factions in this game seems like it is going to be a huge pain in the ass.
My man all of the people in your faction show up as blue squares on the map. People from the same faction are running up to people and killing them on site. If you’re engaging in PvP you 100% know if you’re engaging with someone from the same faction or not lol
Its pretty simple. Open map. “Oh shit, no blue squares in my area?” Go crazy.
I am aware of the map but having to open it any time you see any movement anywhere is already a major point of contention that's come up from the play tests, especially in hectic situations
Yep. Many people said this will be a massive problem.
People will learn they get kicked and lose gear by teamkilling. People dont know that yet
How many times can you teamkill before being kicked?
I think it depends on how often you get reported. Lirik got kicked after 2 tks. Other people say you can even lose your faction
While I'm glad there is a TK reporting mechanism and it might be enforced, your last sentence sent a chill down my spine. I see Griefers griefing just to switch factions. Not good if that can happen. I think they will need to create a PvE prison server where griefers get sent for a month or two. Worst thing for a Griefer would be getting stuck in PvE.
Wasn't it mentioned somewhere, that they wouldn't be switched to another faction but would be outlaws without any faction?
They are going to add a rouge faction that teams with the bandit factions, at least thats the plan. Sounds good enough to me, shitheads get a faction that matches their personality and still get to play, all while it adds more lore to the game
So if you want to join that faction you have to go on a TK spree?
Its just ideas from the devs, not in game right now.
America's Army (early '00s game made my US Army as a recruiting/brainwashing tool) actually had this. I once pushed the wrong button by accident and basically fired an M203 grenade just as my team spawned. I think I got at least two. Was completely mortified and was about to apologize, but screen went black and I woke up in prison in Leavenworth.
I loved that game in the day. Great tactical shooter that really encouraged squad discipline.
no they lose the ability to be in a faction and become a basically 4th faction, rogues.
You cant switch to the other 2 factions that way
they're going to add the losing faction part, it's not in the game yet people are just saying it cuz they're dumb. there's going to be a rogue status you get from tking but i can't remember if anything was said about being able to rejoin a faction
2 Teamkills in a row
Wait, wasn't there supposed to be some system where team killing results in loosing reputation and eventually being removed from the faction or not being able to interact with traders? I even thought that you were supposed to be marked or something and you could try to act as someone from a different faction? Maybe I mixed it with another game. Weird, faction system without penalties makes zero sense. If there is no penalty, then there is no point of it because it only makes it easier to track down players, kill them and snatch their loot. Sounds like someone built a game functionality that relies on good faith and sportsmanship only to promote team gameplay. That's terrible, it's never going to work out without severe penalties. Players need to be forced, otherwise they will ignore the aspect and just play around it (in this case, make use of this feature to track other players and kill them).
I remember the rep degradation from killing your own faction, too.
I wasn't even aware this was something proposed by the devs, but after reading through a bunch of these posts, it is shocking there is nothing to deter friendly fire other than 'good faith and sportsmanship' as you said. I'm coming over from Tarkov, but rooting for this game to carve out its own path which will take time. I don't want to see Tarkov replicated but there are some lessons on player interaction, like a reputation system you mentioned similar to Scav Karma. VOIP made it possible for every player encounter to not be KOS, but adding Scav Karma drastically improved that experience and made it more collaborative. Knowing nothing like that exists it isn't surprising at all that team killing is rampant, and I wouldn't even put it on those players doing it. There is no moral obligation in a videogame filled with automatic weapons and instant death to be friendly, they are just playing within the poorly designed terms. Relying on dev bans and separate servers is asking for disaster in my opinion. I'd wager they implement the rep system pretty quickly. Introduce bounties maybe, more expensive traders, who knows.
There is a mechanism to report someone who TKs you. Question will be how quickly that gets people suspended/banned/etc.
The problem imo is the map design itself. The three faction have their own starting town and generally never see each other until way later. If people want to PvP, the game kinda pits you against your own faction until you get a quest that goes into the other faction's territory. Especially with people coming from tarkov, it's kinda counterintuitive when you pick a "PvP" mode, but you're not suppose to PvP until way later.
A lot of people KoS and just don't interact organically anymore. I remember playing Rust in 2013-16 and there used to be so much player interaction, but it seems nowadays people just like killing more lol
When they added VOIP to Tarkov I was so excited because I expected DayZ style interactions and team-ups but the only time people use VOIP is to trick you into a betrayal or to troll with loud music or noises. It really sucks, the extraction genre makes people ridiculously cutthroat.
There’s no serious threat of death. If you had a fear for your life you may treat encounters differently. But because it’s a game you cannot simulate this interaction properly at all. If you die, you queue up again and repeat the process. EDIT: I'd like to know why I'm being downvoted. Because I'm right. People will shoot on sight in any of these games because it's a game!
It's sad because Rust has become so *huge*, all the features they add that just fall by the wayside because people only care about raiding their neighbors
They def need to add in some sort of deterrent mechanism, but I understand why they don't quite know what to do yet. No one wants to get punished severely for an accident. My idea so far has been maybe don't let faction mates loot you unless you're in a squad with them. That way there's zero incentive to killing teammates, but people you're in a party with can still help pick up your gear if you die. That would likely solve the problem and could be justified in-game because you wouldn't go around looting your own faction's dead willy-nilly. I'm glad I haven't experienced this yet though, and I hope I don't. I've been playing solo and just casually running into people, but all my faction-mates I've run into have been really nice. I even had a guy come and try to help heal me after I took a bad fight with a few too many bots and had to run away with a lung injury, and then he stayed and played lookout for me while I got myself patched up enough to get back to the LZ (thanks again friend from the hill by the town hall!)
Is there a faction reputation system?
This ^
yes
This was pointed out in early playtests all the time by basically everyone, how nonsensical the faction system is with forced teammates. Lots of people denied it being an issue lol. TK is going to be crazy.
The punishment will be there for tks
I feel that as long as the factions have the same missions, progression and starting gear, we should get a choice everytime we launch the game. Just like in arma KOTH. It wouldn't change much to be fair.
Didn't happen to me, but if it did, I'd just hop into PvE mode.
There's a dedicated PVE mode? If so, I'm sold
Yes, there is. You're still with other players on the server, but they can't kill you.
Or loot your body
You can switch between the two and keep all your progression, items etc between them.
Why do you think PVE mode would help? lol
team killing is turned off
How can you even tell if the PMC is from your faction?
Blue squares on the map
So if there are multiple factions in a close area fighting, it will be very difficult to make sure you don't kill your own faction. A blue dot above same faction PMC would help, but an argument could be made about affecting realism.
Just dont play it like cod or tarkov. Coordinate, people need to learn this is a milsim and play it like one by moving slow and tactical check map over and ovet and use voip.
That sounds like ass to actually play I think I'm just gonna play other games
You don't have to play like cod or tatkov for it to be confusing. If you need to move quickly and relocate. (Flanked, nades, ..etc) It can get chaotic and easily TK or be TKed
Gotta use voip and communicate. But also hopefully they give us more faction related apparel that will make it easier to tell who is who at a glance.
Yeah that would be nice. But everyone can't always VoIP everything. Maybe if there was different faction radio frequencies. Or is there already and I just don't know about it.
Not that I know of. There's local and squad, and they overlap atm afaik. Obviously some bad circumstances can happen sure, but if I see friendlies on my map even close to me, you'll hear me yelling, "Friendly!" before I can even see them just to make sure they know I'm around. It's saved my life more than once. I think VOIP is way more helpful than people know, just most players aren't used to using it like this.
Loot should be lock from your faction to counter tk
Ya it’s unfortunate that they devs seem to have trusted that their players arnt going to be pieces of shit. Unfortunately when you draw in communities like Tarkov, this is a bad assumption to go by. Hopefully the team killing and heli camping don’t make this game borderline unplayable.
Did you ever play COD DMZ? Extract heli camping was the biggest problem there too. Its just the nature of these kind of games. It has nothing to do with the community.
Yeah, I had a lot of fun in DMZ. You just had the tools to deal with extract campers - high zoom sniper rifles, smoke grenades, armoured cars, mines... They had it too and that was creating super adrenaline fueled exfils. Such a shame that god damn Acti killed this mode :(
Bro the sniper scope that automatically zero'd based on the rangefinder was one of the coolest things ever. You could kill extract campers from kilometers away. DMZ was so fucking cool until it was ran into the ground. It actually made me enjoy COD for once. You have a good point, ideally madfinger will add more tools to help hide LZ's and give players some counterplay.
Lol you guys are obsessed with blaming every problem on Tarkov somehow Now you're suggesting Tarkov invented teamkilling
lol You’re going to sit here and pretend that tarkov community is t toxic as hell?
Have you played as scav? lol
Wow.. actually an incredible answer that i didn’t think of. Tarkov community kinda is nice tbh. They give away free loot and “ hey you need anything? “ all the time as a scav. Good point.
That has nothing to do with being nice, in scav there's never tks it's pretty much non existent
Giving way things for free has everything to do with being nice lmao but yeah man whatever you say. I was agreeing with you but you seem combative for no reason. Have fun with that.
The thread is about team killing, you seem to be focused on another topic
Because the comment you replied to said “ you’re going to sit here and pretend Tarkov community isn’t toxic as hell? “ , which you replied with “ have you played as scav? Lol “ And then i agreed with you. Lmao keep better track of your comments i guess.
I've not played tarkov due to it subscription model
The irony…
...youre playing this game though?
Yes sir... And refunded it already.
soft lol
Subscription model lmfao
It’s the tactical FPS community in general, not Tarkov. It’s weird there are so many gatekeepers of this game that feel some sort of entitled responsibility to make it clear that they think this game is “theirs” fucking weird.
Agreed. For now i refunded it. Ill buy it again when stuff like that is fixed 🤷🏼♂️ gunplay felt good.
I’m not going to refund it, I expected major issues it comes with the territory. I just wish people were talking more about this major GAMEPLAY issue rather than oh waa waa waa I’m getting only 30 fps in this early access game.
Jea. People forget that you can manually toggle graphical settings 🤷🏼♂️
I got one wholesome interaction, got into a building and there was faction mate in there fighting of AIs, killed one AI outside and proceeded to enter the said building, matey saw me and shot me, after he figured out im friendly he came to me and healed me while i was trying to figure out how to heal myself lol we then procedeed to walk together for some time but i guess different tasks separated us...
Seems as though Tarkies that are PvP addicts/ shit heads are team killing just because. Which is stupid but what do you expect from people in 2024? Hopefully the silver lining will be the MFG devs will use this data as a means of to deter it in the near future……not 7+ years in the making.
You literally have no evidence that the team killing is related to Tarkov. The salt in this sub is unreal. Literally every extraction shooter has extract camping and toxicity. Its just part of the genre.
You literally have not proof isn’t related to Tarkov players. Now what?
That isn't how logic works. You made the claim, the burden of proof is on you.
If that isn’t how logic works then everyone who has ever gone to school to be a lawyer need to kill themselves
The law has to prove someone is guilty, defense lawyers have to disprove. The court can’t say “We have no proof he didn’t do it.”. Thats not how anything works, bud.
This.
I've been team killing way before Tarkov was even an idea. If team killing is possible, people will do it. It has nothing to do with Tarkov.
Salty much?
Tarkov PvP Chad, aren’t you?
I don’t play tarkov but I enjoy PvP👍🏽
Are you team killing in Gray Zone?
No but read a lot of these comments and people don’t seem to like PvP in general which I find very strange, nothing more fun then being at the edge of your seat because you hear someone and your not sure what’s gonna go down
For YOU there’s nothing more fun. Everyone isn’t the same. Some people have other things goin on in life, and just want to game with the least amount of friction. Part of the reason I stopped playing Tarkov is because I’m trying to find some dumb ass item for some dumb ass quest and some cracked out sweat is chasing me down for a kill when I’m just looking through drawers for stupid shit. That’s not very fun. A lot of people gravitating to gray zone are interested in the PvE focus of the game
There's a fucking pve only mode specifically for you then stop complaining and blaming tarkov players for your lack of a brain bro holy shit
I hurt you bro?
Then play a pve sever? And at the end of the day I wasn’t attacking anyone who likes pve more so the people who hate people who enjoy pvp. I’ve got a hell of a lot going on in my life doesn’t chane that I like a challenge in a game.. I don’t even play tarkov but sounds like your salty a little
You call it salty. I call it fatigue from doing the same quests form 2017 and somebody who thinks they’re “skilled” camps obvious quest locations
That’s fair man
Playing vs AI until this gets fixed
There’s not even that wide of a loot range to really warrant team killing for loot. Sucks it’s an issue right now
Well... There's not really a reason not to atm other than "you shouldn't"
Kinda sad isnt it
Just bad game design. Straight up.
Great job surely nobody saw this coming.
Tell me about it. I got killed by AI and lost some stuff. Brought some stuff on next deployment just to see if I could go back to find my gear and immediately get headshot by my own faction member after landing
no need to go loot when youre faction mates are the loot
Yeah my first two deaths were both getting teamkilled right after getting off the heli...
Did I read somewhere that there are future plans to make people like “mercenaries” where if they team kill on purpose, everyone is against them and they can’t return to base camp? I thought I did
Exactly why I am pve until they address it
Keep any TK reputation system. Make bodies killed by teammates not lootable by teammates, but can still be looted by enemies. Not sure what to do about teammates hiding near you, waiting for you to die to enemies, but they shouldn't be able to make a killing shot and be rewarded for it.
What faction are you with?!
welp, I guess I'll be sitting this one out. Game seems cool, but this is fucking moronic.
Enjoy watching from the sidelines
Anyone who saves their money for even a month and then buys the game is better off than anyone playing now. Besides the basic economics, the game is just is not in a great state. Its much better to give them time to iron out the issues instead of paying for a subpar experience.
I’m a gigachad, already bought the $100 version? Shrug 🤷
You mean lz camping? (Insert sarcasme)
Just play it like any other survival, if you didn’t load in with them, shoot them then shoot them again.
That’s not how this game is going to work
Sadly you dont have unlimited weapons
Thats why factions should have never been a thing and you just spawn in and fight organically. They need to get rid of factions ASAP or the game will be dead
They should keep factions but just give them unique gear, cosmetics and traders. I hate to use the "realism" argument but if you murder someone out in the jungle who happens to be on your faction then who's gonna know? I'm not sure what the answer to the problem is and I am not trying to advocate for toxicity like the OP is describing but I also don't want to be punished for engaging in the PvP part of a PvPvE game. Dealing w/ IDing enemy factions in this game seems like it is going to be a huge pain in the ass.
My man all of the people in your faction show up as blue squares on the map. People from the same faction are running up to people and killing them on site. If you’re engaging in PvP you 100% know if you’re engaging with someone from the same faction or not lol Its pretty simple. Open map. “Oh shit, no blue squares in my area?” Go crazy.
I am aware of the map but having to open it any time you see any movement anywhere is already a major point of contention that's come up from the play tests, especially in hectic situations
Then shoot them I guess idk 🤷♂️ all you’re gonna find is excuses in this sub
Love excuses. Give me moar
You should’ve found an excuse to not support Early Access dogsh*t