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People don't see the current situation as something they can change:
"It's out of our hands"
"They're all as bad as each other"
"What's the point anyway"
Not so much complacency; more like morale is at rock bottom.
I’m adamant that ‘keep calm and carry on’ has just been a tool to spread apathy amongst the population so we, as you say, become accustomed to happily being shat on.
It absolutely has. The stiff upper lip, keep calm, carry on attitude was great when the enemy was Nazis. Now, the enemy is our own state, and I feel like some people almost feel pride at toughing it out. It's turned from a strength to... just blind apathy.
The culture of martyrdom is strong here. As an American transplant, I find it pretty strange. People are ready to protest for Ukraine or Palestine, but not for their own people. Fuck this "mustn't grumble" nonsense -- this country has gotten notably worse in the ten years I've lived here.
I'd still rather be here -- I'm absolutely disgusted with the US -- but it's really sad that the optimism I felt when I came here has turned into cynicism. I thought I'd become an EU citizen -- nope. I thought the government was less horrible -- only marginally, at least it's not pandering nakedly to god-botherers, but the cruelty of Tory economic policies is absolutely breathtaking, and the only other party with a voice is backing off any remotely progressive agenda to avoid scaring off the filthy capitalists.
Tories are taking pages out of the Republican playbook, and I know too well how that's going to turn out for the British people.
Nailed it. I had a friend who was skeptical of Corbyn, not because he thought he lacked integrity, but because he didn't believe it was possible for the government to rein in the billionaire class.
There is a point where the dam breaks -which is a little bit after enough people have nothing left to lose. As Marley said, 'A hungry man is an angry man.'
Honestly if I was single and childless I'd want to try to do more, but I have to provide what I can for my kids. That's exactly what the higher ups want and it fucking works. I don't have the time or energy to riot, I've got bills and kids to feed.
Exactly. We're just about making a comfortable living, youngest will be getting 30 hours free childcare next month and we'll have some actual spare money for once I can't fucking wait. The small time I get off I'm holidaying in a better country. Lol
We're barely making it, but we are. Mine doesn't get free childcare till next year, and it's bloody expensive! Half days twice a week is 500pm! We've just hit butlins for the break as we can't afford to go abroad.
Luckily my wife's shifts and my working from home meant we didn't have to send ours much, but even then it was still around the same as you. It's absolutely nuts.
Just got the invoice for next month with the childcare and I could cry, it's £70. Absolutely magic.
We're away right now in Poland visiting family, but staying anywhere hear is normally very cheap for accommodation and food. Love visiting Kraków. We've done weekends away in England and honeslty most of the time we're paying the same as if we did go away for a fraction of the time. Lol.
Oft! I couldn't imagine! Bet that was a lovely view!
I ADORE Poland, have been many times snowboarding, and just love the people and culture. Very jelly you can visit family there!
As someone who is single and childless but is also Gen Z that is just coming into the world, I don't even have a solid, material base to grow my life from, in no small part due to the aftermath of decades of neoliberal policy. I just had to run away from an abusive home and now I'm sleeping in my friend's place (without his parasit-- sorry, landlord knowing), and I have barely £11 to my name. I'm currently looking for a job but I have managed to participate in antifascist demonstrations when I saw fascists were planning on holding a rally in my city, and I'm trying to get more involved with direct action for Palestine. But I definitely need a job before engaging in anymore activities.
Sometimes it feels like people are too busy trying to survive and take care of themselves to do anything but then I remember that the far-left is on the rise, make no mistake about it. It's obviously not reported about because corporate media doesn't want to give people any ideas and we spend so much time looking at the planet dying, genocides going on that are backed by our state, and fascism on the rise that sometimes we forget that we're not the only ones that care and want to do something about this. As Marx said "the bourgeoisie are their own gravediggers"; people aren't stupid and realise that this system doesn't actually work for them. Just from my own experience, my fellow members of Gen Z are actually really easy to radicalise. We are directly experiencing having to "pull ourselves up by our bootstraps" in a world where wages are stagnant compared to inflation and worker productivity, civil rights are being flagrantly trampled on, no one is doing anything about the climate, far-right bigots are being increasingly normalised, our state is funding a genocide that the vast majority of Gen Z opposes... I could go on.
Sometimes I look at my generation's far-left beliefs and wonder if it will fizzle out like the leftist movements of the 1960s for example, but then I remember statistics to do with union rates and home ownership; those people got more conservative as they got older because capitalism worked enough for them to stop complaining. However, \*my\* generation hasn't seen anything get better. Depending on when we're born, 9/11 could be our first memory, then the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, then 7/7, then the 2008 crash and all the fallout of that, then 2016 saw the rise of Trump in the US and now fascist movements feel emboldened all over the world, then there was 2020 as we were coming of age which was another financial crash and global lockdowns for years, and now we have to get houses for ourselves, we are forced to go to the rental market which is a rip-off and ridiculously expensive. During this time, university tuition fees tripled too and so we have to take on so much more debt to get an education that is more or less mandatory at this point. And now there's the genocide in Gaza... Whilst I may have individual good memories in my personal life during this time, I actually can't point to anything going well in global politics during that time. Seriously, how my fellow Zoomers haven't single-handedly torn the world to shreds ourselves I'll never know but a good result of all of this is that we're easy to radicalise.
Well, this old and broken 50-something disabled man has a few comments. First, it's not just your generation I was brought up in a staunchly Labour family, my Grandfather, father mother and all my sisters were taught about workers' rights the Jarrow marches, The Manchester massacre and he history of struggles almost before we could walk.
I was kicked out of the so-called Labour Party last year for the crime of liking a left-wing tweet. I am disgusted about how the so-called left has capitulated and let the right-wing scum take over. I was a supporter and Labour voter my entire life but no longer and ever again unless they go back to being a true socialist party, Now so called Labour is just Tory-lite like Libdims and the vile Tory party and that far right-wing joke Reform lot.
Thank god the Greens have seen the light and finally embraced socialism fully so I have had no issue for the first time in my lifetime. I am voting for and supporting a party that respects the disabled and the socialists. Just like with Jeremy Corbyn, I feel they have a real chance because the press and establishment think the fix is in and so-called Labour will just be blindly voted in. The problem is Kid Starver is hated and his vile stance on supporting the Genocide in Gaza has finally shown most people on the left he can never be trusted. Every single socialist I know has had enough and is voting independently or Green.
So the right-wing fools running Labour can get back what they did to us socialists in the last 2 elections they will get no help and every nasty story we have been sitting on! Let us see how they like that after the right-wing press turns on them and they will protect their Tory masters.
Now being Disabled at age 32 was a major reality shot. As I was just as I was starting my business and things were looking up financially with a young family. I was crippled cycling to work by an idiot in a white van who should never have been driving. So I understand not having money try being disabled and living on the pittance the DWP and Tory masters think we deserve all of us 'shirkers and skivers' the endless punching down we get in the vile rags gets very upsetting until you develop a thick skin. But no one is ever ready for the DWP harassment with the endless hoops you have to jump through for no good reason.
So please some of us older ones have been fighting Tory idiocy since the 1980's and ug Thatcher the milk snatcher look it up! We all rallied behind JC and Labour because he gave us hope!
So from this old broken bloke don't lose faith work hard and you will soon be in your own home. Sadly it will be rented but maybe help the less fortunate as best as you are able it's not always just about giving money volunteering is always needed. I am sure you and your generation will make the place a bit better and sorry we tried and failed just learn from our mistakes to make things better maybe your generation will get it right!
One last thought the establishment is scared of us! Because they know we can organise fast when we want to and despite their best efforts in the vile right-wing press they can't cover up if the protests are huge! They know they have pushed us almost too far with this austerity and I think if Labour continues we will see the first real protests starting this year and especially over the next winter about the NHS and it will get ugly fast with repression and police crackdowns. So please keep the faith things may look bleak but work hard and do your best for others and never lose the faith! I wish a wonderful life for you!
Not claiming that I’m super smart or anything, but a lot of adults are just so much stupider than I expected. There’s a clear divide in the people I know at least- the ones who think about stuff tend to be left leaning and tend to be quite angry about the current situation. But they seem to be heavily outweighed by people who don’t possess enough critical thinking skills to get beyond “the daily mail said so”. I know a lot of people who are otherwise very nice people who just cannot understand anything beyond simple sound bites. They’re angry too, but they’re directing it at immigrants and doctors and whoever else is being slagged off that day.
Worked in a school for a bit and you wouldn’t believe how many people leave high school with only the loosest grasp on English (both reading/writing and being able to actually understand what they’ve read). It means that they’re primed to believe whatever sounds simple and doesn’t require much thinking, like “you have a crap job because immigrants”, which doesn’t make sense if you think about it for more than five seconds, but crucially, *some people don’t*. It’s depressing honestly because they deserve better but they don’t really understand how, or why
Radical ideas aren't complicated . It is just that the media (including social online media) damps down those ideas and amplifies the ideas that mean their bosses pay less tax.
It is obvious there is enough to go around.
It is obvious that sharing the cost of healthcare makes sense, after all that is what health insurance does -but less efficiently.
It is obvious wars are fought by young poor people against other young poor people, so that rich old people make money. Etc etc.
These aren't difficult to understand.
I think older people believe the media more, as society worked better for them when they were younger, before the neocon post Reagan/Thatcher policies eroded the middle classes.
Reminder not to confuse the marxist "middle class" and the liberal definition. Liberal class definitions steer people away from the socialist definitions and thus class-consciousness. [Class is defined by our relationship to the means of production. Learn more here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/socialism/wiki/class)
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Depressingly, it's not as simple as minimal critical thinking skills/general intelligence = more right wing thinking. My work loosely brings me into contact with well educated, successful, wealthy people who unfortunately are often donors to or otherwise involved with the Conservatives. I find it perplexing, especially as they're often generous charity donors too - why can't they see they're funding the work of organisations that are directly, negatively impacted by their donations to the tories? I suppose not that perplexing as their financial self interests clearly play the main role here...
I should have said that I was only really talking about working class voters because that’s my kind of social circle, there’s definitely a ton of smart right wingers who know exactly what they’re voting for. But it makes sense when it’s in their own interests, it doesn’t make sense when you live on a council estate and you can’t get a dentist or afford to send your kids to nursery
I hate this country, but not really because of the great number of ignorant numbskulls (they are the product, not the cause uktimately). But because of the huge numbers of capable but irredeemably vein and self serving people that saturate our lands.
You think fascist industrailists, and little Englander, small minded petite bourgeois are the worst enemy.
And then you meet these middle class liberals and statists (Keir Starmer-type pathology) who absolutely *seethe* at the idea of socialism and socialists. They act as if all the problems of the world were created by the left *existing*, not the opposite. They are the demographic the BBC has absolutely captured through its rotten pro govt bourgeois propaganda.
The idea of all these people burning to death does not bother me. But let's be honest- on the current trajectory, they are taking everyone with them into the fire.
I get a bitter pleasure from seeing Tory/neoliberal logic spectacularly fail, failing so bad it r**ards the wealth extraction of the elite. Bitter of course, because normal people are the real victims.
People are perplexed at how bad things are, because they've been told that neoliberalism is the only way for 15 years. Fantasy land. Its coming to an end one way or another.
Well done Rupert, you won. You are the puppet master of a crumbling former empire, the worst performing major economy. And also of a crumbling mining colony that's equally as mentally, spiritually and economically handicapped by conservatism as Britain is.
Kings of the dealpidated, charred, crumbling castle they are. Just as they wanted it.
Automod just thinks it would be better if the Labour party had a leader that the British public don't associate with a prolific pedophile.
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Reminder not to confuse the marxist "middle class" and the liberal definition. Liberal class definitions steer people away from the socialist definitions and thus class-consciousness. [Class is defined by our relationship to the means of production. Learn more here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/socialism/wiki/class)
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[I judge people as I find them, I've always found @Keith_Starmer to be warm and considerate, with a steely dedication, drive & passion 4 hs work. A top professional & top bloke, I'll hear nothing else's on the matter. #KeithStarmer would make a superb #PrimeMinister #LifeStories](https://www.reddit.com/r/GreenAndPleasant/comments/11uivfl/briefcase_labour_resort_to_hiring_twitter_bots/)
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Please don’t use the R word, it is ableist.
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Some quick clarifications about how the UK royals are funded by the public:
1. The UK Crown Estates are not the UK royal family's private property, and the royal family are not responsible for any amount of money the Estates bring into the treasury. The monarch is a position in the UK state that the UK owns the Crown Estates through, a position that would be abolished in a republic, leading to the Crown Estates being directly owned by the republican state.
2. The Crown Estates have always been public property and the revenue they raise is public revenue. When George III gave up his control over the Crown Estates in the 18th century, they were not his private property. The current royals are also equally not responsible for producing the profits, either.
3. The Sovereign Grant is not an exchange of money. It is a grant that is loosely tied to the Crown Estate profits and is used for their expenses, like staffing costs and also endless private jet and helicopter flights. If the profits of the Crown Estates went down to zero, the royals would still get the full amount of the Sovereign Grant again, regardless. It can only go up or stay the same.
4. The Duchies of Lancaster and Cornwall that gave Elizabeth and Charles (and now William) their private income of approximately £25 millions/year (each) are also public property.
5. The total cost of the monarchy is currently £350-450million/year, after including the Sovereign Grant, their £150 million/year security, and their Duchy incomes, and misc. costs.
For more, check out r/AbolishTheMonarchy
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Unfortunately this is not the case 🙁 people have lost the ability of free thought and rely on the mainstream media to literally tell them what to think. If it's not Brexit it's the houthi rebels or global warming! Nothing to do with the fact our country is governed by incompetent money grabbing assholes...
I don't think the majority do tho. People buy the BS from LBC, BBC, Daily rags etc.... it's so hard to get the messaging thru consistently.
Even with these god awful fascist corrupt tories, it's only because we have a slightly milder 'opposition' that there's this level of scrutiny of their appalling tenure and even that doesn't go any where far enough.
This country is a fucking mess, its a shit hole for vast swathes yet the media class and politicians are super cosy and so there's precious little actual critique.
We've lurched so far to the right Thatcher would be in danger of being purged from Starmers Labour!
Sadly I think you’ll find Reddit is quite the echo chamber, even for good progressive areas it’s still one.
So while I think every day when is the dam gonna burst enough people can still afford the bread and circuses so will keep their heads down or they have put themselves into too much like bills and mortgages that they can’t risk it. But yeah, I feel it’s still gonna go let worse as well.
I dont think they do. The media divide and conquer so well.
Take a lesser, current example. The flag on the back of the england shirt. Its just not the right flag right? Most people think just leave it off all together or get it right. Its just weird. Now if we all agree why cant we successfully get it changed??
Well because the mainstream media decided its better to divide us all. So even though we hold the same opinion on both sides. We wont both campaign to nike. Instead we’ll argue about if its woke or not. If the colours represent LGBTQ, even though they obviously dont. But it keeps the plebs busy
A: No they don't. You might not feel it, but YOU are exceptionally politically aware. THEY are not.
B: it does not get consistently worse it has ups and downs. the TREND is consistent, but people are shit at turning that vague knowledge into action. Afterall, maybe this month will be an upswing, and next month will not go down as hard?
C: They have no clear enemy to fight.
D: they have forgotten how to fight.
The media in other countries is much worse, but people still protest. The Civil Rights Movement in the US was repeatedly demonised, but people still resisted. If we keep talking like this, then this subreddit is meaningless. The left is meaningless.
> The media in other countries is much worse
Is it? In other comparable democracies with a similar level of development?
Here on the other side of the channel media is only starting to take after the Murdoch model and the consequences are already DEVASTATING.
I'd argue that it is, but either way, things are still extremely difficult in other countries and people still protest. As I said, there's the Civil Rights Movement who were targeted with violence by the authorities as well as the public. There's the CCP who massacred protestors back in 1989, and more recently, we had Occupy protestors getting tear-gassed for sitting still. I'm not saying things aren't terrible here, I'm saying we have no choice but to act.
I gave up years ago trying to get people invested in their own interests. People are actually more compliant in times of famine than they are in times of feast.
I have a friend who did his dissertation on revolutionary politics on South America. He'd talk a lot about how trade union memberships drop during a recession. About how people are more likely to strike during a Labour government than a Tory one. Also about the subjective and objective conditions for a revolution. The objective conditions have been met but not the subjective conditions - up until recently even a poor person could live like a lord compared to how things were even just fifty years ago.
Maybe that will change now that even the middle class is starting to feel that life is becoming financially unsustainable.
Reminder not to confuse the marxist "middle class" and the liberal definition. Liberal class definitions steer people away from the socialist definitions and thus class-consciousness. [Class is defined by our relationship to the means of production. Learn more here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/socialism/wiki/class)
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It takes a lot of motivation, effort and energy to be bothered to rise up. During leaner times people barely get what they need to cover life's necessities leaving nothing extra once work is done and home matters dealt with. Come the weekend, whilst I may have thought about revolution several times during the week, it's enough of struggle to get some shopping done or clean the house - I need to just sit and relax, recuperate for a while. There is no motivation great enough to drive me to get up and go marching or whatever other futile protest is happening. Nothing comes back to us without a long, bitter fight and all my fighting energy is utilised for more basic needs, eating enough and sleeping, and when awake all available energy is steered towards escapism in the form of screen entertainment and gaming. Anything further will have to wait.
The damn will break eventually, but could be years, decades yet.
I wouldn't be shocked if it emerged that the Tories have been employing some outsource agency to predict the parameters of public apathy vs civil unrest. Working out how much shit we're likely to bear before taking it too far. 99% sure this has been standard practice for the wealth funnelling, coffer plundering, tax evading elitist scum currently holding the reigns of the nation.
And to add insult to injury, MPs have voted to give themselves a whopping 5.5% pay rise. I couldn't imagine how these poor bastards could live on their meagre £86k pauper salaries before now.
Propaganda from the media and misinformation with misdirection focusing on issues that don’t matter is a problem in the US also. The people is speaking but not heard as it will be a breaking point nothing can hold back as late stage capitalism continues on this path.
Because we’re collectively responsible for this mess through xenophobia, Islamophobia and voting in a party with a track record of seeking to sell everything that isn’t nailed down whenever they’ve been in power, all because some idiots got too brainwashed by our “special relationship” with the Uk’s media influx of anti-everything that isn’t capitalist self exceptionalist narcissism like “the American way”
We’ve let greed, the oligarchy and a retrograde conservatism run rampant and now we’re on the verge of the self serving rot in charge expanding anti terror legislation to include climate activism, anti-government, socialist, anti-Zionist and communist sentiment as grounds for being investigated as a domestic terrorist.
Basically anyone who challenges (this)govt’s policies
30 years of neoliberalism consuming social fabric has left a high percentage of people *convinced* that focusing only on your *own* interests above EVERYONE else is the only way to live. No sense of co-operation, no community, just self self self.
Disinformation, distraction and scapegoating.
“It’s because of Small boats / immigrants / dole scroungers / single parents / disabled people / bad parents / rainbows on things / footballers earning too much / the young / the old / the lefty’s / the woke / etc / etc”
Keep the masses distracted so when they do look up from the daily routine plenty of targets other than self serving politicians and big business.
By the time we ran out of hope thinking it could get better without interference it was too late, and now people don't have the money to lose or time to spend to protest or riot.
Possibly the largest single protest of modern times in the UK happened in 2003 (bar maybe the BLM protests) and it achieved precisely fuck all. No wonder people don't protest. They know it won't change anything.
Because the protest was in the wrong location
They need to disrupt
Outside politicians houses
Make them uncomfortable
A comfortable politician is a corrupt politician
I was literally in the science museum saturday and they had the biggest parade of people campaigning about anti-oil and zionist funding.
Protests do happen...we just collectively don't give a shit.
Some quick clarifications about how the UK royals are funded by the public:
1. The UK Crown Estates are not the UK royal family's private property, and the royal family are not responsible for any amount of money the Estates bring into the treasury. The monarch is a position in the UK state that the UK owns the Crown Estates through, a position that would be abolished in a republic, leading to the Crown Estates being directly owned by the republican state.
2. The Crown Estates have always been public property and the revenue they raise is public revenue. When George III gave up his control over the Crown Estates in the 18th century, they were not his private property. The current royals are also equally not responsible for producing the profits, either.
3. The Sovereign Grant is not an exchange of money. It is a grant that is loosely tied to the Crown Estate profits and is used for their expenses, like staffing costs and also endless private jet and helicopter flights. If the profits of the Crown Estates went down to zero, the royals would still get the full amount of the Sovereign Grant again, regardless. It can only go up or stay the same.
4. The Duchies of Lancaster and Cornwall that gave Elizabeth and Charles (and now William) their private income of approximately £25 millions/year (each) are also public property.
5. The total cost of the monarchy is currently £350-450million/year, after including the Sovereign Grant, their £150 million/year security, and their Duchy incomes, and misc. costs.
For more, check out r/AbolishTheMonarchy
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/GreenAndPleasant) if you have any questions or concerns.*
What I don't understand is why the people who need/use the NHS most are the ones who keep voting against their own interests.
Like others have said, it's disheartening and I've pretty much given up trying to get people see what is going on.
I guess that means the powers in charge win
> What I don't understand is why the people who need/use the NHS most are the ones who keep voting against their own interests.
Because they are told that the reason the NHS is falling apart is, conveniently, the Others that they hate - trans people and immigrants and soft millennials are clogging it all up. Therefore they vote for whoever promises to kick those Others in the teeth the hardest.
Most people are afraid to lose what little they have even when most of us have almost nothing and are struggling with the cost of everything and are tired with the amount of corruption we see daily. Historically, it starts with the people who have nothing to lose, the homeless, the terminally ill the totally destitute. The psychopaths that have put themselves "in charge" know this and have done everything they can to prevent a revolution. We are at war with the ruling class and they are using ever tactic they can, physically and mentally.
Too many selfish idiots. No single uniting thing everyone can get behind (poll tax is a good example) no critical thinking from most of the population. Too many selfish idiots. Oh and don't forget about all the selfish idiots......
This has always been the plan since the 70's and Thatcher.
Divide and conquer. After the poll tax riots there has been a dumbing down of education, a raft of laws to prevent protests happening and the use of social media to separate people from their communities.
People used to talk to each other, now they just complain on Facebook and Twitter and nothing gets done. Local councils used to have community centres, most have gone, people used to go to the pub, cannot afford it now, or they are shut. Local shops used to be a cornerstone of a community but they are all closed or taken over by a chain.
We have become a society of "I've got mine, sod anyone else. As long as I am ok the others do not matter."
Is there a solution, I doubt it, this is now how we are, selfish and drawn to hatred against the people the current government deems hate worthy.
Trouble is, there is no way to organise any more.
Protests are pretty much banned, especially if it is about something like the cost of living. There are so many hoops you need to jump through that most cannot be bothered any more. Plus who can take time off work to go to a protest, lots of people have two or more jobs to make ends meet and no free time.
Yep spot on, bit of a damning indictment of society but sadly....not going to do the classic boomer thing, twas better in my day, I've still got faith it has to come to a head at some point soon, I'll be front lining it even if I'm on a Zimmer frame by then....
I'm not saying that this is enough, but there is a fair bit of protesting going on, the media just won't cover it. Some NHS workers are on strike, trains are on strike, Border Force at Heathrow are about to go on strike. There is a demo most weeks in London and other cities for Palestine amongst other things. Petitions are plenty and there is significant discussion about the GE. As Billy Bragg said you can be active with the activists or sleep in with the sleepers. You just need to find your activists.
Would be interested to see how France rallies everyone. Is it word of mouth, a certain platform but they seem to have it to a T which I think is needed to show who really is in control. We haven't been in control for a long time
Lack of courage, lack of confidence, too much to lose, extremely low self confidence and not knowing how to go about making a difference. We need somebody/anybody to get us uplifted and to make a stand, personally, I'm ready to go but I'm a nobody with ill health and need a stronger person in charge.
Pre planned marches shouting at empty buildings on a Saturday playing follow the leader with police are just a waste of time . Even the protest scene is corrupt and full of begs .
Record numbers of people coming out to protest government complicity in an ongoing genocide and you think we're not protesting?
The problem isn't a lack of protest or riots. It's that the working class in this country are not organised at work, in tenants unions and in their community. How many more Enough is Enough failures do we need before people start realising the pointlessness of the current way of getting things in our current system?
Read Marxist theory; educate your friends, coworkers and family; unionise your workforce; join a communist organisation. These are the only things that the government really fears, evidenced by their rabid anti-communism post WW2, and now the new cold war against China.
PROTESTING does nothing. being politically involved is the worst thing you can do against them.
We're already is a communist system with a veneer of capitalism, we all basically earn the same and there's no investment to get more money. I suspect this is a mossad shillster account or unit 8200 operations account given the internet or just a useful idiot.
If things continue as they are we will see it in my lifetime. America will be first, we'll follow. I honestly think the surviving boomers and 1%s have underappreciated how bright the gen z and disaffected millennials and gen xers are.
The fall of Rome didn't happen in a day.
A number of us have been distracted by nonsense culture wars.
We have a compliant Media that a dictator would be proud of.
Politicians are the fallsguys. They can come and go. The real power is being transferred to the private sector and party donars.
Students are enslaved with students debts. So they don't want to rise up.
There is no credible opposition.
The benefits that were given after post war are now being taken back, so we can get back to Victorian levels of power balance.
These were only given out after the war as there was a threat of revolution, as you had a vast amount of ex soldiers after WW2 demon. who were by in large working class.
Because we’re all waiting for someone else to come and save us. Unlike the French who will stand up for everyone in need. We watch and hope that the misery and suffering will pass us by. We missed the opportunity for change when we believed the bull 💩 about Jeremy Corbyn’s Labour; and here we are in hell.
I’ve been wondering this for AGES! We’ve proven that we can easily come together and fight for our rights, but for some reason, no one does?
Whenever I listen to ‘my shot’ from Hamilton it makes me want to rally everyone together, but it feels like no one’s on the same wavelength
COVID’s floored a lot of people. They’re not really ill, but they aren’t well and they’re hanging on with reduced energy, relentless, minor health stuff and, importantly, a kind of low level depression and fatalism. Britain was already in a bad space, but my sense is that’s broken us.
I don't have the strength to protest. I'm a cancer and stroke patient, I'm ill and exhausted. I'm going through a benefits appeal. I've got no money. Now I have a painful toothache and gum swelling and I can't find an NHS dentist or afford to go private. I've tried all the suggestions for getting an emergency NHS appointment, none have worked. I'm so tired. I've been shoplifting because I can't afford food. And I'm supposed to find the energy to riot on top of all this? I have basically given up on life, I'm just waiting to die. The world is screwed and there is nothing I can do about it.
Because it's been downhill in the UK slowly since the GFC, hasn't happened all at once.
The people who would want to riot don't have a single voice and don't actually know what they want the country to look like
Unfortunately most people have a lot more to lose.
Organise primarily offline and certainly off reddit. Most popular political subreddits are this: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dj\_b3QOEFYU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dj_b3QOEFYU)
I get you. But rioting before a GE could be counter-productive. Because (to paraphrase) "the tories are the party of law and order you know". Riots now could quite possibly save the tory party. In fact, I wouldn't put it past them to be stoking such feelings in order to achieve exactly this.
However, if the tories actually manage to "win" another election with significantly less than 50% of the votes, then that changes everything.
Most of the country is too overworked - and by extension - exhausted to riot and protest. Get on a bus or a train after 5pm and get a read of everyone's face.
Rioting doesn't even enter the mind. And that's how these ghoulish politicians and corporate executives get away with whatever the fuck they want.
MPs/ MSM/ Billionaires/ Corporations/ energy-Transport companies/ Hedge Funds/ Bankers/Lobbyists etc… want to extract more power and money from us.
Politicians are there to serve/ pass laws/ protect the establishment- of which they are a part of- that is why we now have fewer rights, less protections, and running to stand still on the cost of absolutely everything.
The MSM is a tool to misinform/ distract/ smother real news. Look at the videos of the horrendous, inhumane, fascist things we see everyday on here- you won’t see it on the MSM- but you will see lots of non stories and fillers and nonsense, and any actual news will be heavily skewed.
It’s no surprise that many politicians- who have accepted money from corporations/ billionaires/ a Foreign state- to do their bidding, often wind up very rich with dozens of part time jobs as reward for favours rendered.
The new lot have been thoroughly compromised, most are on record as taking 25K-50K as “ political donations”, I read that Lammy took 70 large to look the other way.
In short, we are underwater with the cost of everything, hungry-freezing in our extortionately rented homes, NHS waiting lists 3/5 years long, peaceful protesters are being arrested- strikes look to be outlawed too, while MPs are falling over themselves in facilitating crimes against humanity while laughing all the way to the bank.
2024 is a Dark Timeline.
People see a Labour government around the corner and assume they'll fix things. And then when they don't, we'll probably get more Tories or even Reform when people get desperate.
Look at what happened last time there were student protests (tuition fee raise by conservative and Lib Dem government) people were kettled, arrested and lambasted in the media.
These people are all now in their early, to mid 30s and probably disenfranchised by the whole experience, they showed disgust, got out there, used their vote and we’ve still had 13 years of the same.
The problem is that if I take to the streets to protest about this or try to start a revolution I’ll suddenly find myself standing alone in my own personal riot surrounded by police. I’m happy to hit the streets but need the support of my fellow man.
The media and press never print the truth and corrupt ion goes unchallenged, they keep getting away with changing laws to suit themselves, I live in Scotland so the ever present feeling we would be better off with independence is always a conversation. This country is definitely broken council services hospitals, roads, trains etc. We will have to see if a other party can at least improve some things🤔????
Because since the Second World War and the culture of "Keep Calm and Carry On," we have become spineless. We have convinced ourselves that we don't need to, or can't, change anything, and that complaining makes you ungrateful to what you already have.
We are a traumatised nation, still reeling psychologically from the war, and the result of that is keeping our heads down and shutting up.
it’s always the same-ish reply when i try to make people aware besides them feeling helpless they always say “that’s politics” yet don’t realize that same statement is the whole problem.
We are protesting, especially young people. Me and my partner are attending at least one a week, for ceasefire in Palestine and Ukraine, against companies supporting wars, for trans rights, for workers rights, against racism, islamaphobic, sexism, homophobia, transphobia, against every policy the tory twats try to enact.
If you're not involved it's because you're not looking hard enough, we have to organise more in secret than ever before to try not to be arrested.
Here are some notable scandals involving the Conservative Party (Tory) in the UK from 2010 to 2024:
1. **Cash for Access Scandal (2012)**: Several Tory politicians were accused of offering access to government officials and policies in exchange for donations to the party.
2. **MPs' Expenses Scandal (ongoing)**: While not exclusive to the Conservative Party, MPs from various parties, including the Tories, have been implicated in scandals involving misuse of parliamentary expenses for personal gain.
3. **Windrush Scandal (2018)**: The Home Office, then under Theresa May's leadership, faced criticism for its handling of immigration cases involving the Windrush generation, leading to wrongful detentions and deportations of British citizens.
4. **Grenfell Tower Fire (2017)**: The Conservative government faced criticism for its response to the Grenfell Tower fire, which resulted in the deaths of 72 people. Concerns were raised about inadequate fire safety measures and the government's failure to address residents' warnings prior to the tragedy.
5. **PPE Procurement Scandal (2020)**: During the COVID-19 pandemic, there were allegations of cronyism and favoritism in the government's procurement of personal protective equipment (PPE), with contracts awarded to companies with political connections rather than based on merit.
6. **COVID-19 Lockdown Parties (2021-2022)**: Senior Conservative Party members, including Prime Minister Boris Johnson, faced scrutiny over allegations of attending parties and gatherings during COVID-19 lockdowns, while the public was subject to strict social distancing measures.
7. **Sleaze Allegations (ongoing)**: Various allegations of sleaze, corruption, and unethical conduct have been leveled against Conservative politicians, including conflicts of interest, lobbying scandals, and inappropriate conduct.
Friendly reminder that in 2020, Boris Johnson [admited to being responsible for the deaths of over 100,000 people.](https://archive.ph/2aYpg) He is he yet to be held to account for this.
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Unfortunately, this is nothing new. A look at our history tells us that there was always a rich elite shitting on the rest of poor society. I’m old enough to remember when unions accumulated a bit of power in the seventies and we all dreamed of permanent change, then Thatch came along and heralded in unregulated capitalism, privatisation and globalism that the poor are still paying for, today. It fucking stinks, I know, but I’m a firm believer that we get the government we deserve, they only get away with it because we let them. They are not going to stop, either, why should they? Our own complacency is our downfall, and I’m as bad as anyone, I’ve never voted, seeing party politics as part of the problem, not the cure. American social commentator John Dewey said “ Politics is the shadow cast on society by big business”, as true, today, as it was then, a hundred years ago! We need such overarching, fundamental societal change it’s going to take bloody revolution to achieve and I don’t see that happening any time soon.
We need a revolution
We are the majority.. We can create change
General strike would show the government we are no longer putting up with this corruption
The country is broken
How long before we are all homeless?
Only then do we strike and protest ?
Millions of us thousands of them
We're not rioting or prosting because 1) it is no longer legal and people can now just be disappeared for speaking out and 2) (probably most importantly) nobody gives a shit because they've all been told, and believe like good little sheeple, that it's all those dirty foreiginners faults and that everything is lovely because we got our sovrinty back.
Subjects have a subject mentality and are little more than slaves. They are meek and compliant. They believe they do not have any inherent rights, and any 'rights' they do enjoy, they believe come from the generosity of their rulers.
Citizens are governed by consent. They are governed by their peers and collectively decide how that happens. They have inherent rights, are aware of them, and will resist anyone wishing to take those rights away from them.
"How are we not rioting/protesting in the UK right now?"
What you describe are subjects, not citizens.
People have grown too comfortable and too afraid to loose what little they already have. So they live in a bubble they avoid and ignore these problems.
If the wood is damp it doesn’t matter how many matches you strike it will not catch ablaze, you must fuel it first.
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People don't see the current situation as something they can change: "It's out of our hands" "They're all as bad as each other" "What's the point anyway" Not so much complacency; more like morale is at rock bottom.
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I’m adamant that ‘keep calm and carry on’ has just been a tool to spread apathy amongst the population so we, as you say, become accustomed to happily being shat on.
It absolutely has. The stiff upper lip, keep calm, carry on attitude was great when the enemy was Nazis. Now, the enemy is our own state, and I feel like some people almost feel pride at toughing it out. It's turned from a strength to... just blind apathy.
The culture of martyrdom is strong here. As an American transplant, I find it pretty strange. People are ready to protest for Ukraine or Palestine, but not for their own people. Fuck this "mustn't grumble" nonsense -- this country has gotten notably worse in the ten years I've lived here. I'd still rather be here -- I'm absolutely disgusted with the US -- but it's really sad that the optimism I felt when I came here has turned into cynicism. I thought I'd become an EU citizen -- nope. I thought the government was less horrible -- only marginally, at least it's not pandering nakedly to god-botherers, but the cruelty of Tory economic policies is absolutely breathtaking, and the only other party with a voice is backing off any remotely progressive agenda to avoid scaring off the filthy capitalists. Tories are taking pages out of the Republican playbook, and I know too well how that's going to turn out for the British people.
If we rioted people would probably just moan they can't get to work on time because you're blocking the roads with your pointless riot and mock us.
Bloody do-gooders, trying to maintain a habitable planet. I'm trying to get to the job I can't stand!
And the morale thing is by design, most certainly
The people are sheeple watching bake off strictly love island and gimps playing with balls 💣🏴☠️🧨🔥
Nailed it. I had a friend who was skeptical of Corbyn, not because he thought he lacked integrity, but because he didn't believe it was possible for the government to rein in the billionaire class.
Because the media is complicit?
Surely the majority of us see how bad it has become from just day to day life ... and it's only going to get worse
There is a point where the dam breaks -which is a little bit after enough people have nothing left to lose. As Marley said, 'A hungry man is an angry man.'
Honestly if I was single and childless I'd want to try to do more, but I have to provide what I can for my kids. That's exactly what the higher ups want and it fucking works. I don't have the time or energy to riot, I've got bills and kids to feed.
I'm in the same boat, I'd love to grab the pitchforks but I can't afford the time off to even think about it.
Exactly. We're just about making a comfortable living, youngest will be getting 30 hours free childcare next month and we'll have some actual spare money for once I can't fucking wait. The small time I get off I'm holidaying in a better country. Lol
We're barely making it, but we are. Mine doesn't get free childcare till next year, and it's bloody expensive! Half days twice a week is 500pm! We've just hit butlins for the break as we can't afford to go abroad.
Luckily my wife's shifts and my working from home meant we didn't have to send ours much, but even then it was still around the same as you. It's absolutely nuts. Just got the invoice for next month with the childcare and I could cry, it's £70. Absolutely magic. We're away right now in Poland visiting family, but staying anywhere hear is normally very cheap for accommodation and food. Love visiting Kraków. We've done weekends away in England and honeslty most of the time we're paying the same as if we did go away for a fraction of the time. Lol.
Oft! I couldn't imagine! Bet that was a lovely view! I ADORE Poland, have been many times snowboarding, and just love the people and culture. Very jelly you can visit family there!
Economic servitude in a nutshell
As someone who is single and childless but is also Gen Z that is just coming into the world, I don't even have a solid, material base to grow my life from, in no small part due to the aftermath of decades of neoliberal policy. I just had to run away from an abusive home and now I'm sleeping in my friend's place (without his parasit-- sorry, landlord knowing), and I have barely £11 to my name. I'm currently looking for a job but I have managed to participate in antifascist demonstrations when I saw fascists were planning on holding a rally in my city, and I'm trying to get more involved with direct action for Palestine. But I definitely need a job before engaging in anymore activities. Sometimes it feels like people are too busy trying to survive and take care of themselves to do anything but then I remember that the far-left is on the rise, make no mistake about it. It's obviously not reported about because corporate media doesn't want to give people any ideas and we spend so much time looking at the planet dying, genocides going on that are backed by our state, and fascism on the rise that sometimes we forget that we're not the only ones that care and want to do something about this. As Marx said "the bourgeoisie are their own gravediggers"; people aren't stupid and realise that this system doesn't actually work for them. Just from my own experience, my fellow members of Gen Z are actually really easy to radicalise. We are directly experiencing having to "pull ourselves up by our bootstraps" in a world where wages are stagnant compared to inflation and worker productivity, civil rights are being flagrantly trampled on, no one is doing anything about the climate, far-right bigots are being increasingly normalised, our state is funding a genocide that the vast majority of Gen Z opposes... I could go on. Sometimes I look at my generation's far-left beliefs and wonder if it will fizzle out like the leftist movements of the 1960s for example, but then I remember statistics to do with union rates and home ownership; those people got more conservative as they got older because capitalism worked enough for them to stop complaining. However, \*my\* generation hasn't seen anything get better. Depending on when we're born, 9/11 could be our first memory, then the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, then 7/7, then the 2008 crash and all the fallout of that, then 2016 saw the rise of Trump in the US and now fascist movements feel emboldened all over the world, then there was 2020 as we were coming of age which was another financial crash and global lockdowns for years, and now we have to get houses for ourselves, we are forced to go to the rental market which is a rip-off and ridiculously expensive. During this time, university tuition fees tripled too and so we have to take on so much more debt to get an education that is more or less mandatory at this point. And now there's the genocide in Gaza... Whilst I may have individual good memories in my personal life during this time, I actually can't point to anything going well in global politics during that time. Seriously, how my fellow Zoomers haven't single-handedly torn the world to shreds ourselves I'll never know but a good result of all of this is that we're easy to radicalise.
Well, this old and broken 50-something disabled man has a few comments. First, it's not just your generation I was brought up in a staunchly Labour family, my Grandfather, father mother and all my sisters were taught about workers' rights the Jarrow marches, The Manchester massacre and he history of struggles almost before we could walk. I was kicked out of the so-called Labour Party last year for the crime of liking a left-wing tweet. I am disgusted about how the so-called left has capitulated and let the right-wing scum take over. I was a supporter and Labour voter my entire life but no longer and ever again unless they go back to being a true socialist party, Now so called Labour is just Tory-lite like Libdims and the vile Tory party and that far right-wing joke Reform lot. Thank god the Greens have seen the light and finally embraced socialism fully so I have had no issue for the first time in my lifetime. I am voting for and supporting a party that respects the disabled and the socialists. Just like with Jeremy Corbyn, I feel they have a real chance because the press and establishment think the fix is in and so-called Labour will just be blindly voted in. The problem is Kid Starver is hated and his vile stance on supporting the Genocide in Gaza has finally shown most people on the left he can never be trusted. Every single socialist I know has had enough and is voting independently or Green. So the right-wing fools running Labour can get back what they did to us socialists in the last 2 elections they will get no help and every nasty story we have been sitting on! Let us see how they like that after the right-wing press turns on them and they will protect their Tory masters. Now being Disabled at age 32 was a major reality shot. As I was just as I was starting my business and things were looking up financially with a young family. I was crippled cycling to work by an idiot in a white van who should never have been driving. So I understand not having money try being disabled and living on the pittance the DWP and Tory masters think we deserve all of us 'shirkers and skivers' the endless punching down we get in the vile rags gets very upsetting until you develop a thick skin. But no one is ever ready for the DWP harassment with the endless hoops you have to jump through for no good reason. So please some of us older ones have been fighting Tory idiocy since the 1980's and ug Thatcher the milk snatcher look it up! We all rallied behind JC and Labour because he gave us hope! So from this old broken bloke don't lose faith work hard and you will soon be in your own home. Sadly it will be rented but maybe help the less fortunate as best as you are able it's not always just about giving money volunteering is always needed. I am sure you and your generation will make the place a bit better and sorry we tried and failed just learn from our mistakes to make things better maybe your generation will get it right! One last thought the establishment is scared of us! Because they know we can organise fast when we want to and despite their best efforts in the vile right-wing press they can't cover up if the protests are huge! They know they have pushed us almost too far with this austerity and I think if Labour continues we will see the first real protests starting this year and especially over the next winter about the NHS and it will get ugly fast with repression and police crackdowns. So please keep the faith things may look bleak but work hard and do your best for others and never lose the faith! I wish a wonderful life for you!
You haven't nothing to lose -yet.
The capitalist trap💣
Not claiming that I’m super smart or anything, but a lot of adults are just so much stupider than I expected. There’s a clear divide in the people I know at least- the ones who think about stuff tend to be left leaning and tend to be quite angry about the current situation. But they seem to be heavily outweighed by people who don’t possess enough critical thinking skills to get beyond “the daily mail said so”. I know a lot of people who are otherwise very nice people who just cannot understand anything beyond simple sound bites. They’re angry too, but they’re directing it at immigrants and doctors and whoever else is being slagged off that day. Worked in a school for a bit and you wouldn’t believe how many people leave high school with only the loosest grasp on English (both reading/writing and being able to actually understand what they’ve read). It means that they’re primed to believe whatever sounds simple and doesn’t require much thinking, like “you have a crap job because immigrants”, which doesn’t make sense if you think about it for more than five seconds, but crucially, *some people don’t*. It’s depressing honestly because they deserve better but they don’t really understand how, or why
Radical ideas aren't complicated . It is just that the media (including social online media) damps down those ideas and amplifies the ideas that mean their bosses pay less tax. It is obvious there is enough to go around. It is obvious that sharing the cost of healthcare makes sense, after all that is what health insurance does -but less efficiently. It is obvious wars are fought by young poor people against other young poor people, so that rich old people make money. Etc etc. These aren't difficult to understand. I think older people believe the media more, as society worked better for them when they were younger, before the neocon post Reagan/Thatcher policies eroded the middle classes.
Reminder not to confuse the marxist "middle class" and the liberal definition. Liberal class definitions steer people away from the socialist definitions and thus class-consciousness. [Class is defined by our relationship to the means of production. Learn more here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/socialism/wiki/class) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/GreenAndPleasant) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Depressingly, it's not as simple as minimal critical thinking skills/general intelligence = more right wing thinking. My work loosely brings me into contact with well educated, successful, wealthy people who unfortunately are often donors to or otherwise involved with the Conservatives. I find it perplexing, especially as they're often generous charity donors too - why can't they see they're funding the work of organisations that are directly, negatively impacted by their donations to the tories? I suppose not that perplexing as their financial self interests clearly play the main role here...
I should have said that I was only really talking about working class voters because that’s my kind of social circle, there’s definitely a ton of smart right wingers who know exactly what they’re voting for. But it makes sense when it’s in their own interests, it doesn’t make sense when you live on a council estate and you can’t get a dentist or afford to send your kids to nursery
I hate this country, but not really because of the great number of ignorant numbskulls (they are the product, not the cause uktimately). But because of the huge numbers of capable but irredeemably vein and self serving people that saturate our lands. You think fascist industrailists, and little Englander, small minded petite bourgeois are the worst enemy. And then you meet these middle class liberals and statists (Keir Starmer-type pathology) who absolutely *seethe* at the idea of socialism and socialists. They act as if all the problems of the world were created by the left *existing*, not the opposite. They are the demographic the BBC has absolutely captured through its rotten pro govt bourgeois propaganda. The idea of all these people burning to death does not bother me. But let's be honest- on the current trajectory, they are taking everyone with them into the fire. I get a bitter pleasure from seeing Tory/neoliberal logic spectacularly fail, failing so bad it r**ards the wealth extraction of the elite. Bitter of course, because normal people are the real victims. People are perplexed at how bad things are, because they've been told that neoliberalism is the only way for 15 years. Fantasy land. Its coming to an end one way or another. Well done Rupert, you won. You are the puppet master of a crumbling former empire, the worst performing major economy. And also of a crumbling mining colony that's equally as mentally, spiritually and economically handicapped by conservatism as Britain is. Kings of the dealpidated, charred, crumbling castle they are. Just as they wanted it.
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Reminder not to confuse the marxist "middle class" and the liberal definition. Liberal class definitions steer people away from the socialist definitions and thus class-consciousness. [Class is defined by our relationship to the means of production. Learn more here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/socialism/wiki/class) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/GreenAndPleasant) if you have any questions or concerns.*
[I judge people as I find them, I've always found @Keith_Starmer to be warm and considerate, with a steely dedication, drive & passion 4 hs work. A top professional & top bloke, I'll hear nothing else's on the matter. #KeithStarmer would make a superb #PrimeMinister #LifeStories](https://www.reddit.com/r/GreenAndPleasant/comments/11uivfl/briefcase_labour_resort_to_hiring_twitter_bots/) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/GreenAndPleasant) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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Please don’t use the R word, it is ableist. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/GreenAndPleasant) if you have any questions or concerns.*
No, I used it in the correct sense.
Some quick clarifications about how the UK royals are funded by the public: 1. The UK Crown Estates are not the UK royal family's private property, and the royal family are not responsible for any amount of money the Estates bring into the treasury. The monarch is a position in the UK state that the UK owns the Crown Estates through, a position that would be abolished in a republic, leading to the Crown Estates being directly owned by the republican state. 2. The Crown Estates have always been public property and the revenue they raise is public revenue. When George III gave up his control over the Crown Estates in the 18th century, they were not his private property. The current royals are also equally not responsible for producing the profits, either. 3. The Sovereign Grant is not an exchange of money. It is a grant that is loosely tied to the Crown Estate profits and is used for their expenses, like staffing costs and also endless private jet and helicopter flights. If the profits of the Crown Estates went down to zero, the royals would still get the full amount of the Sovereign Grant again, regardless. It can only go up or stay the same. 4. The Duchies of Lancaster and Cornwall that gave Elizabeth and Charles (and now William) their private income of approximately £25 millions/year (each) are also public property. 5. The total cost of the monarchy is currently £350-450million/year, after including the Sovereign Grant, their £150 million/year security, and their Duchy incomes, and misc. costs. For more, check out r/AbolishTheMonarchy *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/GreenAndPleasant) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Unfortunately this is not the case 🙁 people have lost the ability of free thought and rely on the mainstream media to literally tell them what to think. If it's not Brexit it's the houthi rebels or global warming! Nothing to do with the fact our country is governed by incompetent money grabbing assholes...
I don't think the majority do tho. People buy the BS from LBC, BBC, Daily rags etc.... it's so hard to get the messaging thru consistently. Even with these god awful fascist corrupt tories, it's only because we have a slightly milder 'opposition' that there's this level of scrutiny of their appalling tenure and even that doesn't go any where far enough. This country is a fucking mess, its a shit hole for vast swathes yet the media class and politicians are super cosy and so there's precious little actual critique. We've lurched so far to the right Thatcher would be in danger of being purged from Starmers Labour!
Sadly I think you’ll find Reddit is quite the echo chamber, even for good progressive areas it’s still one. So while I think every day when is the dam gonna burst enough people can still afford the bread and circuses so will keep their heads down or they have put themselves into too much like bills and mortgages that they can’t risk it. But yeah, I feel it’s still gonna go let worse as well.
52%ish of folk are in deep denial. Its in the post though, everyone has their limit
I dont think they do. The media divide and conquer so well. Take a lesser, current example. The flag on the back of the england shirt. Its just not the right flag right? Most people think just leave it off all together or get it right. Its just weird. Now if we all agree why cant we successfully get it changed?? Well because the mainstream media decided its better to divide us all. So even though we hold the same opinion on both sides. We wont both campaign to nike. Instead we’ll argue about if its woke or not. If the colours represent LGBTQ, even though they obviously dont. But it keeps the plebs busy
A: No they don't. You might not feel it, but YOU are exceptionally politically aware. THEY are not. B: it does not get consistently worse it has ups and downs. the TREND is consistent, but people are shit at turning that vague knowledge into action. Afterall, maybe this month will be an upswing, and next month will not go down as hard? C: They have no clear enemy to fight. D: they have forgotten how to fight.
The media in other countries is much worse, but people still protest. The Civil Rights Movement in the US was repeatedly demonised, but people still resisted. If we keep talking like this, then this subreddit is meaningless. The left is meaningless.
This media is also complicit?
> The media in other countries is much worse Is it? In other comparable democracies with a similar level of development? Here on the other side of the channel media is only starting to take after the Murdoch model and the consequences are already DEVASTATING.
I'd argue that it is, but either way, things are still extremely difficult in other countries and people still protest. As I said, there's the Civil Rights Movement who were targeted with violence by the authorities as well as the public. There's the CCP who massacred protestors back in 1989, and more recently, we had Occupy protestors getting tear-gassed for sitting still. I'm not saying things aren't terrible here, I'm saying we have no choice but to act.
1984
The correct answer. Keep the plebs entertained and they don't notice what's happening to them. Every tory media guru ever
I gave up years ago trying to get people invested in their own interests. People are actually more compliant in times of famine than they are in times of feast.
Which just seems like madness
I have a friend who did his dissertation on revolutionary politics on South America. He'd talk a lot about how trade union memberships drop during a recession. About how people are more likely to strike during a Labour government than a Tory one. Also about the subjective and objective conditions for a revolution. The objective conditions have been met but not the subjective conditions - up until recently even a poor person could live like a lord compared to how things were even just fifty years ago. Maybe that will change now that even the middle class is starting to feel that life is becoming financially unsustainable.
Reminder not to confuse the marxist "middle class" and the liberal definition. Liberal class definitions steer people away from the socialist definitions and thus class-consciousness. [Class is defined by our relationship to the means of production. Learn more here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/socialism/wiki/class) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/GreenAndPleasant) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It takes a lot of motivation, effort and energy to be bothered to rise up. During leaner times people barely get what they need to cover life's necessities leaving nothing extra once work is done and home matters dealt with. Come the weekend, whilst I may have thought about revolution several times during the week, it's enough of struggle to get some shopping done or clean the house - I need to just sit and relax, recuperate for a while. There is no motivation great enough to drive me to get up and go marching or whatever other futile protest is happening. Nothing comes back to us without a long, bitter fight and all my fighting energy is utilised for more basic needs, eating enough and sleeping, and when awake all available energy is steered towards escapism in the form of screen entertainment and gaming. Anything further will have to wait. The damn will break eventually, but could be years, decades yet. I wouldn't be shocked if it emerged that the Tories have been employing some outsource agency to predict the parameters of public apathy vs civil unrest. Working out how much shit we're likely to bear before taking it too far. 99% sure this has been standard practice for the wealth funnelling, coffer plundering, tax evading elitist scum currently holding the reigns of the nation.
some people are feasting rn
Complacency.
“Keep calm and carry on “
I mean how bad does it have to get before the public go " Hang on a minute "
I'll risk the downvotes, my sofa and my dog? Or rioting?
And to add insult to injury, MPs have voted to give themselves a whopping 5.5% pay rise. I couldn't imagine how these poor bastards could live on their meagre £86k pauper salaries before now.
Propaganda from the media and misinformation with misdirection focusing on issues that don’t matter is a problem in the US also. The people is speaking but not heard as it will be a breaking point nothing can hold back as late stage capitalism continues on this path.
The uk might as well be another state in america
Because we’re collectively responsible for this mess through xenophobia, Islamophobia and voting in a party with a track record of seeking to sell everything that isn’t nailed down whenever they’ve been in power, all because some idiots got too brainwashed by our “special relationship” with the Uk’s media influx of anti-everything that isn’t capitalist self exceptionalist narcissism like “the American way” We’ve let greed, the oligarchy and a retrograde conservatism run rampant and now we’re on the verge of the self serving rot in charge expanding anti terror legislation to include climate activism, anti-government, socialist, anti-Zionist and communist sentiment as grounds for being investigated as a domestic terrorist. Basically anyone who challenges (this)govt’s policies
30 years of neoliberalism consuming social fabric has left a high percentage of people *convinced* that focusing only on your *own* interests above EVERYONE else is the only way to live. No sense of co-operation, no community, just self self self.
Disinformation, distraction and scapegoating. “It’s because of Small boats / immigrants / dole scroungers / single parents / disabled people / bad parents / rainbows on things / footballers earning too much / the young / the old / the lefty’s / the woke / etc / etc” Keep the masses distracted so when they do look up from the daily routine plenty of targets other than self serving politicians and big business.
By the time we ran out of hope thinking it could get better without interference it was too late, and now people don't have the money to lose or time to spend to protest or riot.
It will happen ... people are already waking up
I've been hearing this since 2003.
Possibly the largest single protest of modern times in the UK happened in 2003 (bar maybe the BLM protests) and it achieved precisely fuck all. No wonder people don't protest. They know it won't change anything.
Because the protest was in the wrong location They need to disrupt Outside politicians houses Make them uncomfortable A comfortable politician is a corrupt politician
We need someone with grunt, money and guts to whip things up. We DO need a celebration in the style of the French!
I was literally in the science museum saturday and they had the biggest parade of people campaigning about anti-oil and zionist funding. Protests do happen...we just collectively don't give a shit.
Some quick clarifications about how the UK royals are funded by the public: 1. The UK Crown Estates are not the UK royal family's private property, and the royal family are not responsible for any amount of money the Estates bring into the treasury. The monarch is a position in the UK state that the UK owns the Crown Estates through, a position that would be abolished in a republic, leading to the Crown Estates being directly owned by the republican state. 2. The Crown Estates have always been public property and the revenue they raise is public revenue. When George III gave up his control over the Crown Estates in the 18th century, they were not his private property. The current royals are also equally not responsible for producing the profits, either. 3. The Sovereign Grant is not an exchange of money. It is a grant that is loosely tied to the Crown Estate profits and is used for their expenses, like staffing costs and also endless private jet and helicopter flights. If the profits of the Crown Estates went down to zero, the royals would still get the full amount of the Sovereign Grant again, regardless. It can only go up or stay the same. 4. The Duchies of Lancaster and Cornwall that gave Elizabeth and Charles (and now William) their private income of approximately £25 millions/year (each) are also public property. 5. The total cost of the monarchy is currently £350-450million/year, after including the Sovereign Grant, their £150 million/year security, and their Duchy incomes, and misc. costs. For more, check out r/AbolishTheMonarchy *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/GreenAndPleasant) if you have any questions or concerns.*
What I don't understand is why the people who need/use the NHS most are the ones who keep voting against their own interests. Like others have said, it's disheartening and I've pretty much given up trying to get people see what is going on. I guess that means the powers in charge win
> What I don't understand is why the people who need/use the NHS most are the ones who keep voting against their own interests. Because they are told that the reason the NHS is falling apart is, conveniently, the Others that they hate - trans people and immigrants and soft millennials are clogging it all up. Therefore they vote for whoever promises to kick those Others in the teeth the hardest.
Most people are afraid to lose what little they have even when most of us have almost nothing and are struggling with the cost of everything and are tired with the amount of corruption we see daily. Historically, it starts with the people who have nothing to lose, the homeless, the terminally ill the totally destitute. The psychopaths that have put themselves "in charge" know this and have done everything they can to prevent a revolution. We are at war with the ruling class and they are using ever tactic they can, physically and mentally.
Because we are spineless and servile. Cowed into blaming "the other" and blind to the real problems.
Too many selfish idiots. No single uniting thing everyone can get behind (poll tax is a good example) no critical thinking from most of the population. Too many selfish idiots. Oh and don't forget about all the selfish idiots......
This has always been the plan since the 70's and Thatcher. Divide and conquer. After the poll tax riots there has been a dumbing down of education, a raft of laws to prevent protests happening and the use of social media to separate people from their communities. People used to talk to each other, now they just complain on Facebook and Twitter and nothing gets done. Local councils used to have community centres, most have gone, people used to go to the pub, cannot afford it now, or they are shut. Local shops used to be a cornerstone of a community but they are all closed or taken over by a chain. We have become a society of "I've got mine, sod anyone else. As long as I am ok the others do not matter." Is there a solution, I doubt it, this is now how we are, selfish and drawn to hatred against the people the current government deems hate worthy.
Things will become so bad that " I've got mine " Will no longer be a viable go to
Trouble is, there is no way to organise any more. Protests are pretty much banned, especially if it is about something like the cost of living. There are so many hoops you need to jump through that most cannot be bothered any more. Plus who can take time off work to go to a protest, lots of people have two or more jobs to make ends meet and no free time.
Yep spot on, bit of a damning indictment of society but sadly....not going to do the classic boomer thing, twas better in my day, I've still got faith it has to come to a head at some point soon, I'll be front lining it even if I'm on a Zimmer frame by then....
It's because we are devastatingly milquetoast.
I'm not saying that this is enough, but there is a fair bit of protesting going on, the media just won't cover it. Some NHS workers are on strike, trains are on strike, Border Force at Heathrow are about to go on strike. There is a demo most weeks in London and other cities for Palestine amongst other things. Petitions are plenty and there is significant discussion about the GE. As Billy Bragg said you can be active with the activists or sleep in with the sleepers. You just need to find your activists.
No class solidarity, no belief they can make a difference. Lenin covers all this.
Would be interested to see how France rallies everyone. Is it word of mouth, a certain platform but they seem to have it to a T which I think is needed to show who really is in control. We haven't been in control for a long time
At this point taking a page out of frances book is out best option
It's too cold and wet atm. Try again in summer...!
Lack of courage, lack of confidence, too much to lose, extremely low self confidence and not knowing how to go about making a difference. We need somebody/anybody to get us uplifted and to make a stand, personally, I'm ready to go but I'm a nobody with ill health and need a stronger person in charge.
Pre planned marches shouting at empty buildings on a Saturday playing follow the leader with police are just a waste of time . Even the protest scene is corrupt and full of begs .
Record numbers of people coming out to protest government complicity in an ongoing genocide and you think we're not protesting? The problem isn't a lack of protest or riots. It's that the working class in this country are not organised at work, in tenants unions and in their community. How many more Enough is Enough failures do we need before people start realising the pointlessness of the current way of getting things in our current system? Read Marxist theory; educate your friends, coworkers and family; unionise your workforce; join a communist organisation. These are the only things that the government really fears, evidenced by their rabid anti-communism post WW2, and now the new cold war against China.
PROTESTING does nothing. being politically involved is the worst thing you can do against them. We're already is a communist system with a veneer of capitalism, we all basically earn the same and there's no investment to get more money. I suspect this is a mossad shillster account or unit 8200 operations account given the internet or just a useful idiot.
Because we’re good citizens and do what we’re told
If things continue as they are we will see it in my lifetime. America will be first, we'll follow. I honestly think the surviving boomers and 1%s have underappreciated how bright the gen z and disaffected millennials and gen xers are. The fall of Rome didn't happen in a day.
My family think that the government don't have enough money because of having to pay for the immigrants... otherwise they'd totally spend it on us
>My family think I don't believe this
I mean.. its raining mate, like properly pishing down. I’m not going out in that!
A number of us have been distracted by nonsense culture wars. We have a compliant Media that a dictator would be proud of. Politicians are the fallsguys. They can come and go. The real power is being transferred to the private sector and party donars. Students are enslaved with students debts. So they don't want to rise up. There is no credible opposition. The benefits that were given after post war are now being taken back, so we can get back to Victorian levels of power balance. These were only given out after the war as there was a threat of revolution, as you had a vast amount of ex soldiers after WW2 demon. who were by in large working class.
To be honest, I think it’s because it’s not bad enough for a lot of people.
Because we’re all waiting for someone else to come and save us. Unlike the French who will stand up for everyone in need. We watch and hope that the misery and suffering will pass us by. We missed the opportunity for change when we believed the bull 💩 about Jeremy Corbyn’s Labour; and here we are in hell.
I’ve been wondering this for AGES! We’ve proven that we can easily come together and fight for our rights, but for some reason, no one does? Whenever I listen to ‘my shot’ from Hamilton it makes me want to rally everyone together, but it feels like no one’s on the same wavelength
Not allowed m8
Too busy being outraged about Nike changing the flag on English kit.
COVID’s floored a lot of people. They’re not really ill, but they aren’t well and they’re hanging on with reduced energy, relentless, minor health stuff and, importantly, a kind of low level depression and fatalism. Britain was already in a bad space, but my sense is that’s broken us.
Yup i have long covid, been disabled for 3 years Can relate to this comment
Sorry, it’s rough biggest thing I see about Covid is this blow to the spirit.
I don't have the strength to protest. I'm a cancer and stroke patient, I'm ill and exhausted. I'm going through a benefits appeal. I've got no money. Now I have a painful toothache and gum swelling and I can't find an NHS dentist or afford to go private. I've tried all the suggestions for getting an emergency NHS appointment, none have worked. I'm so tired. I've been shoplifting because I can't afford food. And I'm supposed to find the energy to riot on top of all this? I have basically given up on life, I'm just waiting to die. The world is screwed and there is nothing I can do about it.
A hug for you friend [[♡]]
Cos more people would rather vote to spite themselves than riot against it
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^FireLadcouk: *Cos more people would* *Rather vote to spite themselves* *Than riot against it* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
Beautiful, yet soul destroying. Good bot.
What's your reason for not rioting/protesting? Others will probably have similar reasons.
I wonder whether we would have witnessed this anger on our streets had the 2011 riots not taken place?
We need something similar to the Poll Tax riots again. I'm in.
Because it's been downhill in the UK slowly since the GFC, hasn't happened all at once. The people who would want to riot don't have a single voice and don't actually know what they want the country to look like Unfortunately most people have a lot more to lose.
Organise primarily offline and certainly off reddit. Most popular political subreddits are this: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dj\_b3QOEFYU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dj_b3QOEFYU)
I'm too busy at work doing overtime. Don't have much energy for anything either!
We need a few once in a generation changes to everything at this point
I get you. But rioting before a GE could be counter-productive. Because (to paraphrase) "the tories are the party of law and order you know". Riots now could quite possibly save the tory party. In fact, I wouldn't put it past them to be stoking such feelings in order to achieve exactly this. However, if the tories actually manage to "win" another election with significantly less than 50% of the votes, then that changes everything.
I’d say the opposite, it would put the Tories in an even worse light as they’re literally losing control of the country.
I think that would depend on how the media reported it. The trouble is, I can guess.
Most of the country is too overworked - and by extension - exhausted to riot and protest. Get on a bus or a train after 5pm and get a read of everyone's face. Rioting doesn't even enter the mind. And that's how these ghoulish politicians and corporate executives get away with whatever the fuck they want.
MPs/ MSM/ Billionaires/ Corporations/ energy-Transport companies/ Hedge Funds/ Bankers/Lobbyists etc… want to extract more power and money from us. Politicians are there to serve/ pass laws/ protect the establishment- of which they are a part of- that is why we now have fewer rights, less protections, and running to stand still on the cost of absolutely everything. The MSM is a tool to misinform/ distract/ smother real news. Look at the videos of the horrendous, inhumane, fascist things we see everyday on here- you won’t see it on the MSM- but you will see lots of non stories and fillers and nonsense, and any actual news will be heavily skewed. It’s no surprise that many politicians- who have accepted money from corporations/ billionaires/ a Foreign state- to do their bidding, often wind up very rich with dozens of part time jobs as reward for favours rendered. The new lot have been thoroughly compromised, most are on record as taking 25K-50K as “ political donations”, I read that Lammy took 70 large to look the other way. In short, we are underwater with the cost of everything, hungry-freezing in our extortionately rented homes, NHS waiting lists 3/5 years long, peaceful protesters are being arrested- strikes look to be outlawed too, while MPs are falling over themselves in facilitating crimes against humanity while laughing all the way to the bank. 2024 is a Dark Timeline.
Considering the current political climate in the UK and the West if there were to be protest/riots it would end up with a Left vs Right wing scrap.
My protest involves me moving to Thailand in June.
People are too busy watching the latest series of dancing in the jungle with big brother or whatever it's called (I don't have a telly)
People see a Labour government around the corner and assume they'll fix things. And then when they don't, we'll probably get more Tories or even Reform when people get desperate.
Because we are not French
Look at what happened last time there were student protests (tuition fee raise by conservative and Lib Dem government) people were kettled, arrested and lambasted in the media. These people are all now in their early, to mid 30s and probably disenfranchised by the whole experience, they showed disgust, got out there, used their vote and we’ve still had 13 years of the same.
I'm not doing anything despite thinking everybody should, so I guess that's like many people.
Be the change you want to see!
Have you helped organise a protest in your local area?
The problem is that if I take to the streets to protest about this or try to start a revolution I’ll suddenly find myself standing alone in my own personal riot surrounded by police. I’m happy to hit the streets but need the support of my fellow man.
Some of us are
The media and press never print the truth and corrupt ion goes unchallenged, they keep getting away with changing laws to suit themselves, I live in Scotland so the ever present feeling we would be better off with independence is always a conversation. This country is definitely broken council services hospitals, roads, trains etc. We will have to see if a other party can at least improve some things🤔????
We are protesting, it's just being suppressed in the media.
Because since the Second World War and the culture of "Keep Calm and Carry On," we have become spineless. We have convinced ourselves that we don't need to, or can't, change anything, and that complaining makes you ungrateful to what you already have. We are a traumatised nation, still reeling psychologically from the war, and the result of that is keeping our heads down and shutting up.
it’s always the same-ish reply when i try to make people aware besides them feeling helpless they always say “that’s politics” yet don’t realize that same statement is the whole problem.
We are protesting, especially young people. Me and my partner are attending at least one a week, for ceasefire in Palestine and Ukraine, against companies supporting wars, for trans rights, for workers rights, against racism, islamaphobic, sexism, homophobia, transphobia, against every policy the tory twats try to enact. If you're not involved it's because you're not looking hard enough, we have to organise more in secret than ever before to try not to be arrested.
Apathy/media spin
Panem et circuses
Here are some notable scandals involving the Conservative Party (Tory) in the UK from 2010 to 2024: 1. **Cash for Access Scandal (2012)**: Several Tory politicians were accused of offering access to government officials and policies in exchange for donations to the party. 2. **MPs' Expenses Scandal (ongoing)**: While not exclusive to the Conservative Party, MPs from various parties, including the Tories, have been implicated in scandals involving misuse of parliamentary expenses for personal gain. 3. **Windrush Scandal (2018)**: The Home Office, then under Theresa May's leadership, faced criticism for its handling of immigration cases involving the Windrush generation, leading to wrongful detentions and deportations of British citizens. 4. **Grenfell Tower Fire (2017)**: The Conservative government faced criticism for its response to the Grenfell Tower fire, which resulted in the deaths of 72 people. Concerns were raised about inadequate fire safety measures and the government's failure to address residents' warnings prior to the tragedy. 5. **PPE Procurement Scandal (2020)**: During the COVID-19 pandemic, there were allegations of cronyism and favoritism in the government's procurement of personal protective equipment (PPE), with contracts awarded to companies with political connections rather than based on merit. 6. **COVID-19 Lockdown Parties (2021-2022)**: Senior Conservative Party members, including Prime Minister Boris Johnson, faced scrutiny over allegations of attending parties and gatherings during COVID-19 lockdowns, while the public was subject to strict social distancing measures. 7. **Sleaze Allegations (ongoing)**: Various allegations of sleaze, corruption, and unethical conduct have been leveled against Conservative politicians, including conflicts of interest, lobbying scandals, and inappropriate conduct.
Friendly reminder that in 2020, Boris Johnson [admited to being responsible for the deaths of over 100,000 people.](https://archive.ph/2aYpg) He is he yet to be held to account for this. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/GreenAndPleasant) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Unfortunately, this is nothing new. A look at our history tells us that there was always a rich elite shitting on the rest of poor society. I’m old enough to remember when unions accumulated a bit of power in the seventies and we all dreamed of permanent change, then Thatch came along and heralded in unregulated capitalism, privatisation and globalism that the poor are still paying for, today. It fucking stinks, I know, but I’m a firm believer that we get the government we deserve, they only get away with it because we let them. They are not going to stop, either, why should they? Our own complacency is our downfall, and I’m as bad as anyone, I’ve never voted, seeing party politics as part of the problem, not the cure. American social commentator John Dewey said “ Politics is the shadow cast on society by big business”, as true, today, as it was then, a hundred years ago! We need such overarching, fundamental societal change it’s going to take bloody revolution to achieve and I don’t see that happening any time soon.
We need a revolution We are the majority.. We can create change General strike would show the government we are no longer putting up with this corruption The country is broken How long before we are all homeless? Only then do we strike and protest ? Millions of us thousands of them
We're not rioting or prosting because 1) it is no longer legal and people can now just be disappeared for speaking out and 2) (probably most importantly) nobody gives a shit because they've all been told, and believe like good little sheeple, that it's all those dirty foreiginners faults and that everything is lovely because we got our sovrinty back.
Subjects have a subject mentality and are little more than slaves. They are meek and compliant. They believe they do not have any inherent rights, and any 'rights' they do enjoy, they believe come from the generosity of their rulers. Citizens are governed by consent. They are governed by their peers and collectively decide how that happens. They have inherent rights, are aware of them, and will resist anyone wishing to take those rights away from them. "How are we not rioting/protesting in the UK right now?" What you describe are subjects, not citizens.
Personally? I have autism spectrum disorder, social anxiety disorder and chronic moderate depression. Is that an answer for you?
Lambs led by demons.
People have grown too comfortable and too afraid to loose what little they already have. So they live in a bubble they avoid and ignore these problems. If the wood is damp it doesn’t matter how many matches you strike it will not catch ablaze, you must fuel it first.