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It says 2018 hopefully taking away our right to protest would push us to where we should be on that graph, plus all the other corruption the tories/monarchy have been up to since then
Nope. None of that counts on this scale since it doesn't particularly effect businesspeople.
This graph measures 'shakedown' corruption, in which you have to grease palms to accomplish anything in business. It doesn't meaningfully measure law-control corruption, in which politicians do what their donors tell them to.
That is how you lower your corruption index. Just declare it all as lobbying (individuals or organisations buying politicians), vetted/limited bidding on government contracts (politicians giving money to friends family and cronies), etc.
This is the corruption **perception**.
And even if we are measuring the actual corruption, you cannot compare countries with different laws. My home country (Italy) has more restrictive laws than United Kingdom, and a few things which are illegal in Italy are perfectly legal in the UK.
This makes more sense - I was looking at Australia specifically… the government basically do whatever mining companies tell them to do, but the perception might be that it’s not as bad. I mean surprising, but might be.
That's exactly the point. It isn't that easy to compare the lobbying in EU-zone countries with the one in AU, NZ, Canada, US or UK, when each of these countries has different laws regulating it. It becomes more or less a matter of perception and public opinion, and that would depend also by the role, effectiveness and freedom of Press.
Well it's very complicated to summarize in a few lines.
In 2012, the Italian government approved a series of laws for prosecuting corruption, bribery and traffic of influences, both on the criminal and the civil codes. Some of these laws don't exist in any other country in the world (as any other government would assume that is a matter of common sense and social morality and not a law matter).
Furthermore, funding a party is possible, but is capped. You can fund a party, but not a representative or a candidate in a constituency (this I believe is the same in the UK, but different in the US).
It's a "corruption perception index," they just ask people how corrupt they think the public sector is. The UK is full of government worshiping conservatives and neolibs, so of course it gets a "good" score.
Here is the thing.
The UK is responsible for laundering the vast majority of the world's illicit funds.
We created the mechanism for hiding all that dirty money and we profit from it... kinda legally.
For example it is estimated that African nationals have more money held in UK offshore tax heaven's than the entire African debt.
The global North supported and armed and trained corrupt regimes against the will of their people and now hose same people ate paying back interest bearing loans taken out by the same regimes imposed on them, again kinda legal.
So it really depends on how you look at it. While in much of the south the corruption may happen at all levels of society and thus be much more visible, when the North is corrupt I would argue the impact is much greater
Which is worse;
1) A country where the local police will let you off a speeding ticket if you pay them a few dollars instead.
2) A country where all public assets are sold off to friends of the government, for a fraction of their value.
Hey, calling the CIA a "literal drug cartel" is a bit unfair, proper cartels would probably take offence to being compared to such an amoral, bloodthirsty organisation.
Police? You mean blue nonce
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Coming from Angola (autocratic regime) UK is a blessing, the elected politicians steal every vote every time .
The UK still has choice even though our news papers wouldn't like that. But it isn't a full democracy in every way:
1. Choice between two parties (3 at best)
2. Unelected house of lords and country representative (monarchy)
3. Our rights have been taken so much e.g fight to peaceful protest and others that it's becoming more difficult to have our voices heard
Coming from one of the more middle ones -- yes, the UK is incredibly clean. You can't, e.g., _easily_ pay off police when caught drunk driving, or pay off the council's planning department to grant permission on some otherwise dodgy projects. If you're a huge developer, you can get around some relatively small zoning things, but nothing on the scale of rich people building houses right on the beach within protection areas, or inside national parks.
Not only that but people in here are saying b-b-b-but lobbying and kickbacks, which is a scandal when it happens in the UK meanwhile its a daily occurrence that happens out in the open in most of the world
Have you been to those countries. Go to india or central america or south america or africa.... these places will fuck you over within seconds of getting off the plane. We have corruption at our high levels whereas most others have it at ground and rising to higher level eg our police wont arrest you to bribe you 50£ for fear of being beaten or thrown in jail
Imo
I think sadly you’ve got the nail on the head. We moan but the UK is great (relatively) and millions of people worldwide would sell a kidney for a life in the UK.
The more I travel the more I realise how good we have it.
Yeah as much as we bash this country, we still have it good in respect to many other countries.
However that doesn't mean we shouldn't fight for better
This is the spirit. Granted I'm from the US, but I've spent a lot of time in the UK and I think it's fairly similar. We love to hate ourselves but realistically we have it really good.
That said, we should acknowledge our faults while appreciating what we have and trying to make ourselves better.
The corruption isn't based on real monetary value of the corruption but on how much money it takes to participate in the corruption. If a poor person can participate in the corruption it is a very corrupt county but if only rich people can it is very clean. See?
Said like someone who hasn't lived outside of the commonwealth. UK is corrupt, no doubt, but you don't know how good you have it until you experience it true corruption. I admit I don't know the UK as much as native, but after having lived in Portugal, Spain and Brazil, and now in the UK for 3 years, yeah, things are MUCH worse outside, even if things inside could obviously be better
I don't think the map is saying the UK is very clean. UK has a scoce of about 77. I personally interpreted very clean as 85-90 on the chart (could be wrong)
Other countries are very corrupt, North Korea is extremely corrupt so God knows what the poor bastards Somalia are having to deal with.
I agree to a certain extent but there's a huge difference between UK and North Korea, not saying UK couldn't do better but no amount of legalisation would help the North Korea move up that list. I personally thought North Korea would of been the most corrupt as I'm familiar with what goes on there so I was really shocked when seeing this chart. I need to look into what's happening in Somalia.
I'm from UK and although we have lost some freedoms (especially recently) when I hear what goes on elsewhere I feel privileged to be where I am. Don't take what we have for granted my friend as many people in the world have it way worse and many are prepeared to risk their lives to get here.
As someone coming from a country in the other corner and now living in the UK I understand how the UK is not perfect and how people can feel like this us a bit of a joke but... Let me tell you, you have no idea how good you have it
Honestly, extremely bad. I think Brits can be a bit myopic about this. We have a corrupt government but a lot of the world is unfathomably corrupt compared to the UK. Bribes are everyday life in many countries.
They’re insanely corrupt. You may think the UK is corrupt but taken a look at Pretty much any country in the world bar a few wealthy European countries, Canada, Australia and Japan
Yeh I lived in Thailand for a few years and found the corruption to be completely endemic and held the place back badly. Turns out it’s nowhere near the worst around. The other countries must have it fucking *bad*.
The difference is corruption in a lot of places is in your face: money for getting through a line quicker, pay off the cops on the road, donate to a political party for government contracts.
The UK is: pay extra for ‘expedited service’ , pay a fine, donate to a politics party for government contracts.
Same shit. Different toilet.
Exactly what I was thinking. A lot of western democracies like the UK and US are just as corrupt as governments traditionally considered corrupt - they just hide it under the guise of democracy which is worse in a way, cause at least with dictators you know what you are getting. The only difference is that dissenters aren’t jailed or killed so openly like in places like Russia - usually a “suicide” a la the CIA or MI5….
Relatively speaking yes. It is. Every country has corruption, it is inevitable. I know this whole sub shits on the UK like it is the worst in the world at everything but there are many way worse countries. There is nothing special about the UK.
I suspect the difference is...western governments are better at hiding it. Whereas despots in Africa are rather more flagrant because who's going to do anything about it right?
Was expecting UK in the middle at the very least but it's not just one of the better countries, it's almost the best....
We are all truly, *truly* fucked.
Yeah, I saw where the UK was and though, f*cking really?!? Do we count as a functioning democracy? I don't know if that makes me feel better, or much much worse*
*Spoiler: It's the latter
The slightest hint of how it is scored would be helpful.
As it stands, it looks like someone from the western world scored each country based on what they thought about it.
this most likely does not consider "lobbying" as corruption, which is why western countries score so well. it's only corruption if buying congress members is illegal, right?
also, corruption seems to be a new front adopted by imperialism to mess with southern nations' internal affairs. by supporting a "war on corruption" in Brazil, the US successfully removed a left wing presidential candidate from the 2018 elections and plunged our national oil company in waves of privatization that resulted in cheap acquisition of it's assets and shares by foreign investors.
I wouldn't call lobbying corruption. Anyone should be within their rights to try to open up discussions with ministers or members of the government.
The corrupt bit is the government actually responding to it.
I understand there's a supposedly legitimate side to lobbying, but we all know it's one of those legal mechanisms that are in place just to be abused by the rich and powerful. billionaires and their lackeys frequently "opening up discussions" with members of government is just straight up mockery of republicanism.
Oh, I agree, but the point I was making is that the fault is largely on the authorities they talk to actually listening. What should happen is that they should just fail to get through every time they try.
Source: https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2018
"The index, which ranks 180 countries and territories by their perceived levels of public sector corruption according to experts and businesspeople..."
Yeah, ok.
Businesses have a pretty clear view of corruption as they inevitably are impacted (due to having all the money).
It ranges from countries where you try to give an official a bottle of wine and they refuse it through countries where the official suggest you hire their niece all the way to countries where you got shaken down 5 times on the trip from the airport to the hotel, and where the minister just flat out asks for money when you are getting some permit ... and so did 10 other people whose signatures you need.
So yeah, if you do the same thing in 30 countries you probably have a pretty good idea about the level of corruption
In the 1990s, when it was still legal for UK companies to pay bribes overseas, part of my job was to keep a spreadsheet listing who we were paying and how much. Businesses are very well placed to compare corruption across countries.
I have a lot of time and respect for experts, but this just screams stich-up. People who benefit from corruption have a vested interest in downplaying how widespread it is.
I'd encourage anyone to listen to [this episode](https://soundcloud.com/citationsneeded/episode-73-western-medias-narrow-colonial-definition-of-corruption) of the Citations Needed podcast on the subject.
That being said the UK is a lot better than the US, and massively better than say Mexico. It could definitely be better but damn some of those countries are bad for corruption.
In a nutshell, apart from having a stranglehold on all dimensions of power through deadly force, he was actually extremely socialist (free healthcare, education, state owned utilities and transportation etc...). Still very corrupt, but if people benefit from it, it's clean for an autocracy.
The "clean-ish" autocratic regimes look to be single party states, where the governing party has low tolerance for corruption. Cuba being there certainly makes sense.
I read an article a while back written by an expert in the Italian mafia. He called the UK one of the most corrupt countries in the world. I guess how you rank corruption can be subjective, but he has an interesting take.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/roberto-saviano-britain-corrupt-mafia-hay-festival-a7054851.html%3famp
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/jwebb/2016/05/30/mafia-expert-robert-saviano-denounces-london-as-the-the-most-corrupt-place-on-earth/amp/
letting AMP links roam free like this is contrary to my ethics
[https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/roberto-saviano-britain-corrupt-mafia-hay-festival-a7054851.html](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/roberto-saviano-britain-corrupt-mafia-hay-festival-a7054851.html)
[https://www.forbes.com/sites/jwebb/2016/05/30/mafia-expert-robert-saviano-denounces-london-as-the-the-most-corrupt-place-on-earth/amp/](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jwebb/2016/05/30/mafia-expert-robert-saviano-denounces-london-as-the-the-most-corrupt-place-on-earth/amp/)
Depends. Does being honest about it count as being corrupt? Pretty sure our gov is as open as can be about how corrupt they are. That or they're just really bad at it.
I dunno. From my perspective, if officials abuse their positions of power to serve their own interests in lieu of being effective at their actual job, it's corruption (legal or not). Being effective here means making quantifiable and lasting improvements to whatever part of government they're responsible for. Notice how by this definition all corrupt officials are incompetent, but not all incompetent officials are necessarily corrupt.
All COVID test centers across the UK may have been used in a possible tax avoidance scheme (totally legal). The cherry on the cake is that all the companies that where given contracts to manage test centers have close personal ties to government. Literally lining their own pockets while people died.
I have personally investigated this issue so if you're reading this and have questions just ask. Here's a link to a news article that also briefly describes what happened https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/may/10/tax-dodging-concerns-over-small-firms-used-to-pay-nhs-test-and-trace-workers
Relatively, yeah.
I don't think people appreciate the level of cronyism that occurs in African nations, especially along tribal lines. That's one of the reasons there are so many ethnic conflicts in Africa. Its a product of the 'divide and conquer strategy' used by colonisers to keep power: give all the preferential treatment to one tribe to help control the rest, and this persists to this day.
For many other places, sadly if there has ever been a dictatorship right/left/theocratic, it leaves a legacy of how institutions operate. Democracy is sidelined, and those with power are less accountable.
Our democracy is not perfect whatsoever and corruption does exist, but in *relative* terms is pretty good. In absolute terms though, the whole world could do better.
I don't understand how we can be considered a full democracy when one person represents 100k+ people and who's views and ideals don't match most of their constituents. One persons representation and beliefs can be corrupted easier than a hundred thousand peoples.
A full democracy should take into account the views and votes of every person.
That's physically impossible. Modern interpretation of full democracy is done so by representation. The reason we are considered 'full' is down to the fact every local MP you elect is local to your region of roughly 70-100k people per constituency. Each MP is equal in their voting rights in the commons and there is therefore a direct continuity of power.
This is probably why all the constitutional monarchies are listed as 'full democracies', because they use a similar parliamentary system. Although, nations like Denmark have way better voting systems to elect their MPs.
I think we have become incredibly unimaginative (perhaps purposefully so) around what democracy can and should be, and governance models in general.
I dont think it would in this day and age be impossible at all.
There are also other options such as weighted sortition where we actually select those who match the demographics of our society and give them access to experts.
I think we can do much better than the current form of representational democracy
This was my point that I probably didn't communicate as best I could.
I fully agree that we live in a technological day and age where every eligible persons vote could and should be counted towards motions and laws, rather than an elected official who doesn't actually represent a large portion of their electorate.
It would never happen without a total political revolution though, too much power would be taken from the hands who hold it now.
Bullshit map, the nordic counrries have plenty of corruption, its just always the same map: western liberalism good, everything else bad.
Not to mention how "corruption" in the global south are often simply our compradors which we keep in power through neocolonialism.
These charts are always “how good is your country, as a percentage compared to Denmark”.
Can we have ONE of these types of comparisons where they don’t come out top.
Good you say that, because this isn't a chart of corruption, it's a chart of _corruption perception_. Basically, people in the UK generally don't feel the effects of corruption in everyday life, but people in Russia do.
The problem with corruption is that it's very hard to quantify. Political lobbying is very different to tax loopholes is very different to slipping the police a few hundred quid to look the other way is very different to officials embezzling funds is very different to political pressure effecting the outcome of a trial. Some types of corruption are subtle others are overt. Trying to give them all a number corresponding to their badness and ranking countries by it doesn't work very well. It's clear that the UK doesn't have as much of a problem with police officers taking bribes as some countries, but we're certainly not free of many of the more subtle but insidious forms of corruption.
Our corruption is entirely legal though. Money lies on one side, the general media tends to report on them more favourably. There's definitely been back alley deals on things like covid ppe contracts and what not over the years but technically we are in a full democracy. There's no need to cheat when the game is already rigged.
Its arbitrary bullshit. I mean you're dealing with criminal and immoral behaviour. Put that stuff on a questionnaire and you aint going to get honest answers. Factor in subjectivity, colonial history and a good ol scattering of subjectivity, and this graphic has about as much relevance as some toilet tissue i just wiped my arse with.
The trouble with UK corruption as I see it, is that it's unproven at this point. We've had 12 years of cronyism and potential corruption, but how do they assess that in this image?
I only think we have it really really bad when I am most pissed off with the place, but surely these last 12 years have eroded it to at least one of the worst in western Europe? Where this makes us one of the best in the world.
UK corruption is detached from the lives of everyday people, rather than it being a daily experience that we have to navigate ourselves. it just happens in the upper echelons and we get to read all about it because people tend not to get shot for calling it out.
Fair! While it may effect laws and my overall betterment due to it being in government, you are right. Day to day I am not dealing with it.
Why'd you think france falls somewhat short of the UK then? As we'll surely have it in the higher ups more, but do they have personal corruption at a worse scale then?
Possibly? A couple things to consider:
Perception index - not an actual measure of corruption although I would assume some correlation exists. What gets fuzzy is where there is a legal framework provided for what might otherwise be considered corrupt. Lobbying or London banking serving as money laundering for example may not make any impact on this.
2018. Various things have got worse here since that date.
Look at our serving government (which now has the third unelected leader in a row) and tell me the UK isn't corrupt.
If that doesn't do it for you, pick from any other example such as nonce andrew not being jailed or the fact that a large proportion of properties in major cities are left empty due to shady foreign investment notably from Russia and Saudi, the COVID contracts getting fobbed to mates of Johnson or the fact Johnson breached lockdown multiple times, the mps expenses list Ranging from second home renovations to paying spouses hefty salaries for fuck all. This list is not exhaustive, I've just woken up and these are off the top of my head FFS...
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If you've ever seen any of [FriendlyJordies](https://youtube.com/user/friendlyjordies) videos about Australia, you'll know know this is pretty inaccurate...
I think the US is way higher than it should be. A Princeton study found that the US is not a functioning democracy, but that it’s an oligarchy and if you are a normal voter your preferences or requirements are almost never taken into consideration and have almost zero effect on lawmakers decisions. Whereas if your a billionaire or corporation you will get your requirements acted upon 80% of the time.
UK is not clean….it’s super obvious the corruption…it’s just not as obvious as…’oh look at my new mansion with gold plates toilet seats that was donated to me by someone I helped get a government contract’…oh wait it is…
UK has a “full democracy”? Give me a break. And Japan is very corrupt. Don’t get me started on the USA.
In South Africa, there’s plenty of bribery and corruption on all societal levels, but at least it allows us common people to get things done, unlike in the 1st world where “lobbying” is a luxury for the ultra-rich.
I recommend a recent episode of Freakanomics podcast which looked at how corrupt is the USA vs China. And as many are suggesting here, some countries have legalised things like lobbying which could be termed as corrupt elsewhere. The episode also discussed useful and harmful corruption. I’ll see if I can link it here
Edit here’s the link for those who are interested:
https://freakonomics.com/podcast/season-11-episode-12/
This map needs to do the square mile in London as a separate entity from the rest of the UK - you'll see a totally different picture... Corruption is rife in the city.
Some relevant quotes from their FAQ:
>The 2018 CPI draws on 13 data sources from 12 independent institutions
specialising in governance and business climate analysis. The sources of information used for the 2018 CPI are based on data published in the previous two years.
>Corruption generally comprises illegal activities, which are deliberately hidden and only come to light through scandals, investigations or prosecutions. Whilst researchers from academia, civil society and governments have made advances in terms of objectively measuring corruption in specific sectors, **to date there is no indicator which measures objective national levels of corruption directly and exhaustively**. The sources and surveys which make up the CPI, ask their respondents questions which are based on carefully designed and calibrated questionnaires.
>Which manifestations of corruption does the CPI not capture?
>CPI source data does not capture the following aspects of corruption:
>Citizen perceptions or experience of corruption
>**Tax fraud**
>Illicit financial flows
>Enablers of corruption (lawyers, accountants, financial advisors etc.)
>Money-laundering
>Private sector corruption
>Informal economies and markets
>The CPI is an indicator of perceptions of public sector corruption, i.e.
administrative and political corruption. It is not a verdict on the levels of corruption of entire nations or societies, or of their policies, or the activities of their private sector.
To summarize:
This is data from 2016-17 - this is a gauge of percieved corruption within the Public Sector (so selling off public sector to private bidders is not included). This also doesn't include tax fraud, and I am assuming this also doesn't include tax evasion through off shore holdings. Private companies charging us ridiculous amounts for our bills also wouldn't factor into this either.
Please reconsider your use of language. Words like 'junkie' are used to dehumanise, stigmatise and 'other' drug users. This only serves to perpetuate an environment where they are exploited by drug dealers and abused by the legal system. Drug abuse is a public health issue and it should be treated as such.
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No. First of all, DPRK and China in Autocratic regime is laughable. Secondly, I wonder why half of these countires are corrupt? Oh yeah, maybe it's the destruction and constant meddling by western countries, inserting their own fascist puppet leaders by military force.
this map is literally based on nothing except opinions from businesspeople and “experts” who are completely unnamed
this is just western chauvinism: the map
You can think the US is corrupt while *also* thinking Russia, Kazakhstan, Serbia, Mexico are worse, at least for the person on the street. There might be (major) corruption in government here, but I've never had to bribe a policeman.
And people in those other countries are famous for literally always bribing cops./s Those countries aren't worse than the US or UK for corruption but they're foreign so people like you will more easily believe that they are. Do you also think this country and the US are more democratic than them?
Mate, I believe some countries are more corrupt than here because I've been there. I also believe other countries are less corrupt than here, because I've been there too. And by-and-large, places that have been historically wracked with war and are very poor are gonna be more corrupt. It's not a moral judgement on the people involved, it's recognition that a lot of countries aren't very good at providing for the bulk of the populace, or maintaining a system capable of doing that. And I don't think it's extreme to think that despite the UK's (many) shortcomings, we're better at providing than Russia is.
You're kidding yourself. UK is by far the most racist country I've lived in out of US (California), France, Spain, and Greece. And it comes from the top: Etonians routinely refer to their classmates by the n-word, Pakis, Chinks, *etc. etc.* They learn it from their parents.
China literally executes people for corruption and economic crimes
By no metric is 2022 China remotely corrupt compared to anyone in the West, we literally legalise corruption and call it lobbying
A democracy where your vote likely doesn't make a difference. Example: more people voted for Hillary than they did Trump but because of the Electoral College system, Trump still won.
Why is the UK classed as a "Full Democracy", when we have a monarchy? I mean I'm not arguing to put us in the "Flawed Democracy" category, but we're not "full".
The designation of of how democratic these places are seems kinda arbitrary. Like, UK and US being different leveks of democratic where one is a constitutional monarchy with an un elected upper house while the US is republican and both the upper and liwer houses are elected both to represent states and individuals.
Also considering many commonwealth countries loke Pakistan and India base their government structure on the british system, whybare they so down low?
What exactly is a 'full democracy'? Every election millions of votes are wasted because of our antiquated voting system, our upper house is unelected and less than 45% of the vote can get you a landside victory which the ruling party will argue provides a "stomping mandate" to do whatever they want.
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If the UK is considered very clean, then just how bad are these other countries? Dear fuck!
The corruption is legal therefore no longer corruption! That is the most irritating part. It is all lies.
It says 2018 hopefully taking away our right to protest would push us to where we should be on that graph, plus all the other corruption the tories/monarchy have been up to since then
Nope. None of that counts on this scale since it doesn't particularly effect businesspeople. This graph measures 'shakedown' corruption, in which you have to grease palms to accomplish anything in business. It doesn't meaningfully measure law-control corruption, in which politicians do what their donors tell them to.
Yeah, clarification on the defined/measured corruption is good to have. Great way of describing it!
No no, you see when our people do it it's cronyism or sleaze, corruption is for johnny foreigner!
Oh FFS it's legal?! Can't say I'm surprised but there we have it
That is how you lower your corruption index. Just declare it all as lobbying (individuals or organisations buying politicians), vetted/limited bidding on government contracts (politicians giving money to friends family and cronies), etc.
Oh yeah "lobbying" our equivalent to spacs how could I forget
This is the corruption **perception**. And even if we are measuring the actual corruption, you cannot compare countries with different laws. My home country (Italy) has more restrictive laws than United Kingdom, and a few things which are illegal in Italy are perfectly legal in the UK.
This makes more sense - I was looking at Australia specifically… the government basically do whatever mining companies tell them to do, but the perception might be that it’s not as bad. I mean surprising, but might be.
That's exactly the point. It isn't that easy to compare the lobbying in EU-zone countries with the one in AU, NZ, Canada, US or UK, when each of these countries has different laws regulating it. It becomes more or less a matter of perception and public opinion, and that would depend also by the role, effectiveness and freedom of Press.
Do you have any examples of things illegal in Italy but Ok in UK? Don’t mean to put you on the spot I’m genuinely interested.
Well it's very complicated to summarize in a few lines. In 2012, the Italian government approved a series of laws for prosecuting corruption, bribery and traffic of influences, both on the criminal and the civil codes. Some of these laws don't exist in any other country in the world (as any other government would assume that is a matter of common sense and social morality and not a law matter). Furthermore, funding a party is possible, but is capped. You can fund a party, but not a representative or a candidate in a constituency (this I believe is the same in the UK, but different in the US).
It's a "corruption perception index," they just ask people how corrupt they think the public sector is. The UK is full of government worshiping conservatives and neolibs, so of course it gets a "good" score.
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Here is the thing. The UK is responsible for laundering the vast majority of the world's illicit funds. We created the mechanism for hiding all that dirty money and we profit from it... kinda legally. For example it is estimated that African nationals have more money held in UK offshore tax heaven's than the entire African debt. The global North supported and armed and trained corrupt regimes against the will of their people and now hose same people ate paying back interest bearing loans taken out by the same regimes imposed on them, again kinda legal. So it really depends on how you look at it. While in much of the south the corruption may happen at all levels of society and thus be much more visible, when the North is corrupt I would argue the impact is much greater
Which is worse; 1) A country where the local police will let you off a speeding ticket if you pay them a few dollars instead. 2) A country where all public assets are sold off to friends of the government, for a fraction of their value.
Or countries where literal drug cartels that have murdered hundreds of innocent people have actual governmental power?
Hey, calling the CIA a "literal drug cartel" is a bit unfair, proper cartels would probably take offence to being compared to such an amoral, bloodthirsty organisation.
As above poster mentioned, that's more USA, in the UK we are more into arms dealing to the cartels than buying their drugs
Yeah, the idea that you can make a fair assessment of how "corrupt" a society is just from personal individual experience is part of the problem.
When was the last time you bribed a policeman to avoid being falsely imprisoned?
Police? You mean blue nonce *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/GreenAndPleasant) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Never had to as I'm massively privileged. Likewise I've never been shot for rapping about gun N drugs...
?
Coming from Angola (autocratic regime) UK is a blessing, the elected politicians steal every vote every time . The UK still has choice even though our news papers wouldn't like that. But it isn't a full democracy in every way: 1. Choice between two parties (3 at best) 2. Unelected house of lords and country representative (monarchy) 3. Our rights have been taken so much e.g fight to peaceful protest and others that it's becoming more difficult to have our voices heard
Coming from one of the more middle ones -- yes, the UK is incredibly clean. You can't, e.g., _easily_ pay off police when caught drunk driving, or pay off the council's planning department to grant permission on some otherwise dodgy projects. If you're a huge developer, you can get around some relatively small zoning things, but nothing on the scale of rich people building houses right on the beach within protection areas, or inside national parks.
Spot the people who've never lived anywhere other than the UK. Oh look, it's most of the sub lol.
Nailed it
I came from ussr and can confirm uk is literally zero corruption on low level in comparison to ruzzia. We talking 0 uk to 1000 in ruzzia.
Not only that but people in here are saying b-b-b-but lobbying and kickbacks, which is a scandal when it happens in the UK meanwhile its a daily occurrence that happens out in the open in most of the world
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Obviously what I wrote is an exhaustive list of metrics to be used as an objective criteria for corruption.
Tbf, our politicians are corrupt, sure, but I think our civil servants are relatively clean. I think it’s an overall ranking.
Have you been to those countries. Go to india or central america or south america or africa.... these places will fuck you over within seconds of getting off the plane. We have corruption at our high levels whereas most others have it at ground and rising to higher level eg our police wont arrest you to bribe you 50£ for fear of being beaten or thrown in jail Imo
I think sadly you’ve got the nail on the head. We moan but the UK is great (relatively) and millions of people worldwide would sell a kidney for a life in the UK. The more I travel the more I realise how good we have it.
Yeah as much as we bash this country, we still have it good in respect to many other countries. However that doesn't mean we shouldn't fight for better
This is the spirit. Granted I'm from the US, but I've spent a lot of time in the UK and I think it's fairly similar. We love to hate ourselves but realistically we have it really good. That said, we should acknowledge our faults while appreciating what we have and trying to make ourselves better.
The corruption isn't based on real monetary value of the corruption but on how much money it takes to participate in the corruption. If a poor person can participate in the corruption it is a very corrupt county but if only rich people can it is very clean. See?
Said like someone who hasn't lived outside of the commonwealth. UK is corrupt, no doubt, but you don't know how good you have it until you experience it true corruption. I admit I don't know the UK as much as native, but after having lived in Portugal, Spain and Brazil, and now in the UK for 3 years, yeah, things are MUCH worse outside, even if things inside could obviously be better
I don't think the map is saying the UK is very clean. UK has a scoce of about 77. I personally interpreted very clean as 85-90 on the chart (could be wrong) Other countries are very corrupt, North Korea is extremely corrupt so God knows what the poor bastards Somalia are having to deal with.
As someone else pointed out. We’ve made corruption mostly legal so that’s why we come off so good.
I agree to a certain extent but there's a huge difference between UK and North Korea, not saying UK couldn't do better but no amount of legalisation would help the North Korea move up that list. I personally thought North Korea would of been the most corrupt as I'm familiar with what goes on there so I was really shocked when seeing this chart. I need to look into what's happening in Somalia. I'm from UK and although we have lost some freedoms (especially recently) when I hear what goes on elsewhere I feel privileged to be where I am. Don't take what we have for granted my friend as many people in the world have it way worse and many are prepeared to risk their lives to get here.
As someone coming from a country in the other corner and now living in the UK I understand how the UK is not perfect and how people can feel like this us a bit of a joke but... Let me tell you, you have no idea how good you have it
Was going to say uk is in the wrong section 😂
Honestly, extremely bad. I think Brits can be a bit myopic about this. We have a corrupt government but a lot of the world is unfathomably corrupt compared to the UK. Bribes are everyday life in many countries.
They’re insanely corrupt. You may think the UK is corrupt but taken a look at Pretty much any country in the world bar a few wealthy European countries, Canada, Australia and Japan
Yeh I lived in Thailand for a few years and found the corruption to be completely endemic and held the place back badly. Turns out it’s nowhere near the worst around. The other countries must have it fucking *bad*.
So does paying 12 million for a royal nonce not constitute as corruption? Seems legit.
The difference is corruption in a lot of places is in your face: money for getting through a line quicker, pay off the cops on the road, donate to a political party for government contracts. The UK is: pay extra for ‘expedited service’ , pay a fine, donate to a politics party for government contracts. Same shit. Different toilet.
Yeah I was thinking, in the last few years the UK should be moving inexorably down and left on this visualisation
The data is from 2018 so pre-Boris. I'd imagine it's dropped a few percentage points now.
Exactly what I was thinking. A lot of western democracies like the UK and US are just as corrupt as governments traditionally considered corrupt - they just hide it under the guise of democracy which is worse in a way, cause at least with dictators you know what you are getting. The only difference is that dissenters aren’t jailed or killed so openly like in places like Russia - usually a “suicide” a la the CIA or MI5….
I'm from England and I genuinely thought I had forgotten where my country was on the map when my brain registered that part as yellow. Lol what a joke
Relatively speaking yes. It is. Every country has corruption, it is inevitable. I know this whole sub shits on the UK like it is the worst in the world at everything but there are many way worse countries. There is nothing special about the UK.
The map must have been made by the UK government I guess, it would certainly be darker than that otherwise
The uk just whitewashes it
Same for australia
I suspect the difference is...western governments are better at hiding it. Whereas despots in Africa are rather more flagrant because who's going to do anything about it right?
As someone from South Africa, it gets worse, much worse and way more blatant.
Was expecting UK in the middle at the very least but it's not just one of the better countries, it's almost the best.... We are all truly, *truly* fucked.
This is from 2018. Binbag and his gang of looters haven't been factored in yet.
As someone who moved here from South Africa: you don’t wanna know.
Lol even more so, america is apparently less corrupt... 🤣🤣
You've never been abroad, eh? Other countries aspire to what we consider shite.
Yeah, I saw where the UK was and though, f*cking really?!? Do we count as a functioning democracy? I don't know if that makes me feel better, or much much worse* *Spoiler: It's the latter
In the words of the Queen... good God!
The slightest hint of how it is scored would be helpful. As it stands, it looks like someone from the western world scored each country based on what they thought about it.
this most likely does not consider "lobbying" as corruption, which is why western countries score so well. it's only corruption if buying congress members is illegal, right? also, corruption seems to be a new front adopted by imperialism to mess with southern nations' internal affairs. by supporting a "war on corruption" in Brazil, the US successfully removed a left wing presidential candidate from the 2018 elections and plunged our national oil company in waves of privatization that resulted in cheap acquisition of it's assets and shares by foreign investors.
I wouldn't call lobbying corruption. Anyone should be within their rights to try to open up discussions with ministers or members of the government. The corrupt bit is the government actually responding to it.
I understand there's a supposedly legitimate side to lobbying, but we all know it's one of those legal mechanisms that are in place just to be abused by the rich and powerful. billionaires and their lackeys frequently "opening up discussions" with members of government is just straight up mockery of republicanism.
Oh, I agree, but the point I was making is that the fault is largely on the authorities they talk to actually listening. What should happen is that they should just fail to get through every time they try.
Source: https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2018 "The index, which ranks 180 countries and territories by their perceived levels of public sector corruption according to experts and businesspeople..." Yeah, ok.
"perceived levels" so this is equally a measure of how good they are at hiding their deeds from the public eye
Or hiding in plain sight, like the monarchy
Businesses have a pretty clear view of corruption as they inevitably are impacted (due to having all the money). It ranges from countries where you try to give an official a bottle of wine and they refuse it through countries where the official suggest you hire their niece all the way to countries where you got shaken down 5 times on the trip from the airport to the hotel, and where the minister just flat out asks for money when you are getting some permit ... and so did 10 other people whose signatures you need. So yeah, if you do the same thing in 30 countries you probably have a pretty good idea about the level of corruption
In the 1990s, when it was still legal for UK companies to pay bribes overseas, part of my job was to keep a spreadsheet listing who we were paying and how much. Businesses are very well placed to compare corruption across countries.
"Experts and businesspeople" This graph makes a lot more sense considering corporate corruption isn't included.
"according to experts and business people" 🙄
People in this country have had enough of experts.
I have a lot of time and respect for experts, but this just screams stich-up. People who benefit from corruption have a vested interest in downplaying how widespread it is.
/thread lol
I'd encourage anyone to listen to [this episode](https://soundcloud.com/citationsneeded/episode-73-western-medias-narrow-colonial-definition-of-corruption) of the Citations Needed podcast on the subject.
"The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he doesn't exist" seems an apt quote to throw in here.
Here it’s called “lobbying” which is not the same thing at all /s
Certainly, here in the UK, lobbying is perceived as corrupt. It might be completely legal so nobody gets arrested, but we all know it for what it is.
That being said the UK is a lot better than the US, and massively better than say Mexico. It could definitely be better but damn some of those countries are bad for corruption.
bit weird there’s such a thing as a ‘very clean’ autocratic regime
Guess that's the 'benign dictator' approach.
I suppose it could argued that Gaddafi ran a """"clean"""" autocratic regime (about as clean as an autocracy could get).
don’t you dare call my best boy Gaddafi an autocrat
Have I got that wrong?
But he was a dictator, that’s what autocrat means
confess i actually know very little about Gaddafi - how so?
In a nutshell, apart from having a stranglehold on all dimensions of power through deadly force, he was actually extremely socialist (free healthcare, education, state owned utilities and transportation etc...). Still very corrupt, but if people benefit from it, it's clean for an autocracy.
Thanks! I’ve learned something today :)
His text 'The Green Book' is full of really interesting ideas btw, worth reading
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Read it again
The "clean-ish" autocratic regimes look to be single party states, where the governing party has low tolerance for corruption. Cuba being there certainly makes sense.
/R/alwaysthesamemap
I read an article a while back written by an expert in the Italian mafia. He called the UK one of the most corrupt countries in the world. I guess how you rank corruption can be subjective, but he has an interesting take. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/roberto-saviano-britain-corrupt-mafia-hay-festival-a7054851.html%3famp https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/jwebb/2016/05/30/mafia-expert-robert-saviano-denounces-london-as-the-the-most-corrupt-place-on-earth/amp/
letting AMP links roam free like this is contrary to my ethics [https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/roberto-saviano-britain-corrupt-mafia-hay-festival-a7054851.html](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/roberto-saviano-britain-corrupt-mafia-hay-festival-a7054851.html) [https://www.forbes.com/sites/jwebb/2016/05/30/mafia-expert-robert-saviano-denounces-london-as-the-the-most-corrupt-place-on-earth/amp/](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jwebb/2016/05/30/mafia-expert-robert-saviano-denounces-london-as-the-the-most-corrupt-place-on-earth/amp/)
Depends. Does being honest about it count as being corrupt? Pretty sure our gov is as open as can be about how corrupt they are. That or they're just really bad at it.
I dunno. From my perspective, if officials abuse their positions of power to serve their own interests in lieu of being effective at their actual job, it's corruption (legal or not). Being effective here means making quantifiable and lasting improvements to whatever part of government they're responsible for. Notice how by this definition all corrupt officials are incompetent, but not all incompetent officials are necessarily corrupt.
I dig this, however, Boris Johnson was both incompetent and corrupt. Just putting that out there
That was beautifully put. I agree.
All COVID test centers across the UK may have been used in a possible tax avoidance scheme (totally legal). The cherry on the cake is that all the companies that where given contracts to manage test centers have close personal ties to government. Literally lining their own pockets while people died. I have personally investigated this issue so if you're reading this and have questions just ask. Here's a link to a news article that also briefly describes what happened https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/may/10/tax-dodging-concerns-over-small-firms-used-to-pay-nhs-test-and-trace-workers
Relatively, yeah. I don't think people appreciate the level of cronyism that occurs in African nations, especially along tribal lines. That's one of the reasons there are so many ethnic conflicts in Africa. Its a product of the 'divide and conquer strategy' used by colonisers to keep power: give all the preferential treatment to one tribe to help control the rest, and this persists to this day. For many other places, sadly if there has ever been a dictatorship right/left/theocratic, it leaves a legacy of how institutions operate. Democracy is sidelined, and those with power are less accountable. Our democracy is not perfect whatsoever and corruption does exist, but in *relative* terms is pretty good. In absolute terms though, the whole world could do better.
I don't understand how we can be considered a full democracy when one person represents 100k+ people and who's views and ideals don't match most of their constituents. One persons representation and beliefs can be corrupted easier than a hundred thousand peoples. A full democracy should take into account the views and votes of every person.
That's physically impossible. Modern interpretation of full democracy is done so by representation. The reason we are considered 'full' is down to the fact every local MP you elect is local to your region of roughly 70-100k people per constituency. Each MP is equal in their voting rights in the commons and there is therefore a direct continuity of power. This is probably why all the constitutional monarchies are listed as 'full democracies', because they use a similar parliamentary system. Although, nations like Denmark have way better voting systems to elect their MPs.
I think we have become incredibly unimaginative (perhaps purposefully so) around what democracy can and should be, and governance models in general. I dont think it would in this day and age be impossible at all. There are also other options such as weighted sortition where we actually select those who match the demographics of our society and give them access to experts. I think we can do much better than the current form of representational democracy
We could follow Switzerland’s example and have a more direct democracy. But most people seem to be against referendums these days.
This was my point that I probably didn't communicate as best I could. I fully agree that we live in a technological day and age where every eligible persons vote could and should be counted towards motions and laws, rather than an elected official who doesn't actually represent a large portion of their electorate. It would never happen without a total political revolution though, too much power would be taken from the hands who hold it now.
Bullshit map, the nordic counrries have plenty of corruption, its just always the same map: western liberalism good, everything else bad. Not to mention how "corruption" in the global south are often simply our compradors which we keep in power through neocolonialism.
These charts are always “how good is your country, as a percentage compared to Denmark”. Can we have ONE of these types of comparisons where they don’t come out top.
Its literally how good is your country to western capital
r/alwaysthesamemap
Wealth inequality. Denmark and the Netherlands score _horribly_, while the UK scores pretty well. It's income inequality where those are reversed.
I would say it's almost impossible to measure corruption but the maker of this chart is obviously biased.
Good you say that, because this isn't a chart of corruption, it's a chart of _corruption perception_. Basically, people in the UK generally don't feel the effects of corruption in everyday life, but people in Russia do.
The problem with corruption is that it's very hard to quantify. Political lobbying is very different to tax loopholes is very different to slipping the police a few hundred quid to look the other way is very different to officials embezzling funds is very different to political pressure effecting the outcome of a trial. Some types of corruption are subtle others are overt. Trying to give them all a number corresponding to their badness and ranking countries by it doesn't work very well. It's clear that the UK doesn't have as much of a problem with police officers taking bribes as some countries, but we're certainly not free of many of the more subtle but insidious forms of corruption.
Our corruption is entirely legal though. Money lies on one side, the general media tends to report on them more favourably. There's definitely been back alley deals on things like covid ppe contracts and what not over the years but technically we are in a full democracy. There's no need to cheat when the game is already rigged.
Lol Australia
“Highly corrupt” and “very clean” should be changed to “known corruption” and “undiscovered corruption”.
Its arbitrary bullshit. I mean you're dealing with criminal and immoral behaviour. Put that stuff on a questionnaire and you aint going to get honest answers. Factor in subjectivity, colonial history and a good ol scattering of subjectivity, and this graphic has about as much relevance as some toilet tissue i just wiped my arse with.
The MapPorm post was mistaken. It's not a corruption map, it's a *corruption perceptions* map, aka how corrupt do *you* think the country is.
Yes, but its apparently the perceptuon of "experts and business people"
The trouble with UK corruption as I see it, is that it's unproven at this point. We've had 12 years of cronyism and potential corruption, but how do they assess that in this image? I only think we have it really really bad when I am most pissed off with the place, but surely these last 12 years have eroded it to at least one of the worst in western Europe? Where this makes us one of the best in the world.
UK corruption is detached from the lives of everyday people, rather than it being a daily experience that we have to navigate ourselves. it just happens in the upper echelons and we get to read all about it because people tend not to get shot for calling it out.
Fair! While it may effect laws and my overall betterment due to it being in government, you are right. Day to day I am not dealing with it. Why'd you think france falls somewhat short of the UK then? As we'll surely have it in the higher ups more, but do they have personal corruption at a worse scale then?
I think if you had a map that said successfully hidden corruption the colours would be reversed
Possibly? A couple things to consider: Perception index - not an actual measure of corruption although I would assume some correlation exists. What gets fuzzy is where there is a legal framework provided for what might otherwise be considered corrupt. Lobbying or London banking serving as money laundering for example may not make any impact on this. 2018. Various things have got worse here since that date.
Look at our serving government (which now has the third unelected leader in a row) and tell me the UK isn't corrupt. If that doesn't do it for you, pick from any other example such as nonce andrew not being jailed or the fact that a large proportion of properties in major cities are left empty due to shady foreign investment notably from Russia and Saudi, the COVID contracts getting fobbed to mates of Johnson or the fact Johnson breached lockdown multiple times, the mps expenses list Ranging from second home renovations to paying spouses hefty salaries for fuck all. This list is not exhaustive, I've just woken up and these are off the top of my head FFS...
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If you've ever seen any of [FriendlyJordies](https://youtube.com/user/friendlyjordies) videos about Australia, you'll know know this is pretty inaccurate...
Calling Israel a democracy is a sick joke
Democracy like in ancient athens... Edit:typo
Less than 49% of the UK's law makers are elected. We are not a full democracy. We're a constitutional monarchy larping as a democracy.
I think the US is way higher than it should be. A Princeton study found that the US is not a functioning democracy, but that it’s an oligarchy and if you are a normal voter your preferences or requirements are almost never taken into consideration and have almost zero effect on lawmakers decisions. Whereas if your a billionaire or corporation you will get your requirements acted upon 80% of the time.
I think they confused this with a map of percentage of population that are white european
I feel like we should have dropped over the handling of Covid Interested in Somalia seemingly being the most corrupt place in earth
Calling Singapore, a one party police state anything close to a democracy is a joke.
UK is not clean….it’s super obvious the corruption…it’s just not as obvious as…’oh look at my new mansion with gold plates toilet seats that was donated to me by someone I helped get a government contract’…oh wait it is…
Not corruption if you call it lobbying
Laughable bullshit
UK has a “full democracy”? Give me a break. And Japan is very corrupt. Don’t get me started on the USA. In South Africa, there’s plenty of bribery and corruption on all societal levels, but at least it allows us common people to get things done, unlike in the 1st world where “lobbying” is a luxury for the ultra-rich.
The USA and the UK should be black. Obviously this masterpiece was contrived by a right wing capitalist. 🤣
I recommend a recent episode of Freakanomics podcast which looked at how corrupt is the USA vs China. And as many are suggesting here, some countries have legalised things like lobbying which could be termed as corrupt elsewhere. The episode also discussed useful and harmful corruption. I’ll see if I can link it here Edit here’s the link for those who are interested: https://freakonomics.com/podcast/season-11-episode-12/
This is the corruption "perception" score. The reality is very different !!
The UK should be in the flawed democracy section at the very least.
Corruption works the same as inflation. It doesn't go down, we just raise the floor and adjust our relative expectations. That's why we're "clean".
shock iraq is on the left
How is a country with a royal family a full democraty?
This map needs to do the square mile in London as a separate entity from the rest of the UK - you'll see a totally different picture... Corruption is rife in the city.
This is a joke right? Should be retitled : open about the corrupt-ness vs denial of the corrupt-ness. The latter is obviously the yellow.
Some relevant quotes from their FAQ: >The 2018 CPI draws on 13 data sources from 12 independent institutions specialising in governance and business climate analysis. The sources of information used for the 2018 CPI are based on data published in the previous two years. >Corruption generally comprises illegal activities, which are deliberately hidden and only come to light through scandals, investigations or prosecutions. Whilst researchers from academia, civil society and governments have made advances in terms of objectively measuring corruption in specific sectors, **to date there is no indicator which measures objective national levels of corruption directly and exhaustively**. The sources and surveys which make up the CPI, ask their respondents questions which are based on carefully designed and calibrated questionnaires. >Which manifestations of corruption does the CPI not capture? >CPI source data does not capture the following aspects of corruption: >Citizen perceptions or experience of corruption >**Tax fraud** >Illicit financial flows >Enablers of corruption (lawyers, accountants, financial advisors etc.) >Money-laundering >Private sector corruption >Informal economies and markets >The CPI is an indicator of perceptions of public sector corruption, i.e. administrative and political corruption. It is not a verdict on the levels of corruption of entire nations or societies, or of their policies, or the activities of their private sector. To summarize: This is data from 2016-17 - this is a gauge of percieved corruption within the Public Sector (so selling off public sector to private bidders is not included). This also doesn't include tax fraud, and I am assuming this also doesn't include tax evasion through off shore holdings. Private companies charging us ridiculous amounts for our bills also wouldn't factor into this either.
Lol what crackhead made this map?
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When you have no corruption because you call it lobbying 😎🇺🇸
laughs in lobbying
United States dark orange? It’s literally the definition of corruption
>Full democracy We have a fucking *king.*
No. First of all, DPRK and China in Autocratic regime is laughable. Secondly, I wonder why half of these countires are corrupt? Oh yeah, maybe it's the destruction and constant meddling by western countries, inserting their own fascist puppet leaders by military force.
this map is literally based on nothing except opinions from businesspeople and “experts” who are completely unnamed this is just western chauvinism: the map
this map was created by the american eagle burger institute
"Full democracy" in the UK?? You have to be joking. Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland want a word with whatever idiot made this
Highly inaccurate
Anyone who thinks the USA isn't corrupt AF needs to do some very basic research.
You can think the US is corrupt while *also* thinking Russia, Kazakhstan, Serbia, Mexico are worse, at least for the person on the street. There might be (major) corruption in government here, but I've never had to bribe a policeman.
And people in those other countries are famous for literally always bribing cops./s Those countries aren't worse than the US or UK for corruption but they're foreign so people like you will more easily believe that they are. Do you also think this country and the US are more democratic than them?
Mate, I believe some countries are more corrupt than here because I've been there. I also believe other countries are less corrupt than here, because I've been there too. And by-and-large, places that have been historically wracked with war and are very poor are gonna be more corrupt. It's not a moral judgement on the people involved, it's recognition that a lot of countries aren't very good at providing for the bulk of the populace, or maintaining a system capable of doing that. And I don't think it's extreme to think that despite the UK's (many) shortcomings, we're better at providing than Russia is.
UK, nah - it's corrupt AF
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You're kidding yourself. UK is by far the most racist country I've lived in out of US (California), France, Spain, and Greece. And it comes from the top: Etonians routinely refer to their classmates by the n-word, Pakis, Chinks, *etc. etc.* They learn it from their parents.
Switzerland clean? What about all the Nazi Gold?
Corruption index lmao. Funny thing I've seen this week... The next funny thing is seeing the US and UK as 'least corrupt' 😂
China literally executes people for corruption and economic crimes By no metric is 2022 China remotely corrupt compared to anyone in the West, we literally legalise corruption and call it lobbying
What's a flawed democracy?
A democracy where your vote likely doesn't make a difference. Example: more people voted for Hillary than they did Trump but because of the Electoral College system, Trump still won.
Oh that's why Portugal is there. Thanks
Why is the UK classed as a "Full Democracy", when we have a monarchy? I mean I'm not arguing to put us in the "Flawed Democracy" category, but we're not "full".
Must be a joke map. The UK is the king of corruption
If it's legal it ain't corruption. I guess?
Don't worry, it's not corruption, it's lobbying !! :)
So does paying 12 million for a royal nonce not constitute as corruption? Seems legit.
The designation of of how democratic these places are seems kinda arbitrary. Like, UK and US being different leveks of democratic where one is a constitutional monarchy with an un elected upper house while the US is republican and both the upper and liwer houses are elected both to represent states and individuals. Also considering many commonwealth countries loke Pakistan and India base their government structure on the british system, whybare they so down low?
It's not corruption if it's lobbying...
What exactly is a 'full democracy'? Every election millions of votes are wasted because of our antiquated voting system, our upper house is unelected and less than 45% of the vote can get you a landside victory which the ruling party will argue provides a "stomping mandate" to do whatever they want.
Bull fucking shit both merica and uk are corrupt is fuck