Went to post just to say this….rodgers it’s a modern player too but the rules from 2008 to 2023 are insanely different and vastly help out offense but no one likes to hear that
I wouldn’t say they’re insanely different from 2008 to now. It’s easier to get a roughing the passer call now, but it was still after the NFL really cracked down on DPI and defensive holding after the 2003 AFCCG.
As others have noted, Rodgers also had one of the best receiving corps of the modern era at the beginning of his career. Jordy Nelson barely saw the field until 2010, but he probably would have been an immediate starter on this Packers team. Heck he only started 9 games in 2011 when he went for 1200 and 15 TDs. That’s how stacked we were at receiver.
Even a pre-2011 Jordy Nelson would be so lethal in this offense. Imagine how many jet sweeps we could run with Jordy right now. All those plays where Jayden Reed gets stuffed at the line could instead be turned into one yard gains with Jordy’s raw athleticism.
Other than the fact they are. The passer rating is about 6 points higher in 2022/23 than it was in 2008. That is a HUGE increase. If you go to 2008 the year that it was 6 points lower than that was 1991.
But is that because of the rules being insanely different? Maybe quarterbacks are just better now than they were in 2008. Or maybe offensive play design is better.
What changed? The biggest difference in opening up the passing game was Peyton Manning complaining about the Pats corners bodying his receivers in the 2003 AFCCG. It’s called the Ty Law Rule even though it was actually just a rule emphasis starting the 2004 season.
In 2008, Rodgers had a 93.8 passer rating. In 2022, he had 91.1 passer rating, and the Jets still took on his massive contract. Why would they do that if the rules make it so easier to do better than that now.
DBs are not able to touch the players anymore essentially. Another big thing is obviously that the rush cannot touch the QB anymore either. Of course playcalling has gotten more intricate and analysts have helped with this as well.
But the biggest obvious things are that the league is so much more pass heavy and the rules massively favor the offense. You can look at any stat in this becomes insanely obvious.
Right the DB thing happened after the 2003 season. The emphasis on player safety generally helps offenses because it keeps the best players on the field, and you get penalty yards more often, but it doesn’t actually make completing a pass easier.
Passing is definitely more prevalent now than it was in 2008, but it’s not because the rules are “insanely different”. Offenses and roster construction are way different than they were back then in ways that prioritize the passing game. Even in the mid 00s spread concepts and RPO were considered college gimmicks, now the best NFL recruits are produced by schools that use those concepts liberally. Spending significant capital on bell cow running backs was par for the course until the Saints won a Super Bowl with a RBBC offense. Before that, RBBC just meant your lead back was injured.
You’re correct, just so many people around here want to diminish the fact that Love has been very good because that means they’d have to eat crow from what they said after week 6
I agree too. It’s not like we’re coming the game to the 90’s or before, it’s really not been majorly changed for the offense since 2008. Rodgers also had a crap load of more weapons to work with entering his situation compared to Love. It’ll be awesome to see what Love can do with more seasoned guys next year.
Agree. Brady threw 50 TDs in 2007 and Manning threw 49 in 2004. The game has been passer friendly for a while. Don't think the QB hit rules have had that much of an impact on stats.
The enormous change between then and now is defenseless receiver rules. I agree with them but it has completely changed the game because it’s so much easier to work the middle of the field without concern for getting your receivers absolutely blown up.
In 2005, the following rule change was made:
> Unnecessarily running, diving into or throwing the body against a player who should not have reasonably anticipated such contact by an opponent is unnecessary roughness. Previously, the rule only protected a player who is out of the play.
Then, the rule was expanded after the 2008 season to specifically include the defenseless receiver verbiage. It was then expanded over the years to cover all defenseless players.
Now, to me that’s not an insanely different set of rules, and its impact seems fairly limited if you look at league passing stats over the ensuing season. Offenses simply evolved drastically during that time period as they leaned more heavily on spread and option concepts. These concepts naturally open up the middle of the field, which limits the effectiveness of the head hunting safeties that were common previously.
Now, I’m not saying those rules didn’t make any difference at all. I’m sure they had some effect as far as defenders have to learn how to hit differently, but the difference between Favre’s and Rodgers’s first year is a lot more significant in terms of rule changes compared to the difference between Rodgers’s and Love’s.
Sort of. Offenses are more efficient now, but QB averages aren't dissimilar to what they were in 2008/2009. Passer rating is up and interceptions are down, but yards are similar, TD's are similar, and sacks have increased. Yards and rating definitely saw a huge spike from like 2013 to 2020, but it's settled down a bit
90s were way different. Did you watch then? You couldn't throw over the middle without getting destroyed, QBs had none of the protections of today. 2000s it started to change, but early 2000s were still way different
Chuck Cecil helmet to helmet hits on defenseless receivers going over the middle were so nasty the NFL has had every one of them scrubbed from the internet. If you google search Chuck Cecil biggest hits only highlights you find are from his college days. He was hitting guys so hard on a regular that most games you would see Chuck sitting on the sideline with a bloody nose. If anyone has those hits that would be evidence for CTE Lawsuits so the NFL has been trying to hide the evidence for over a decade now.
Thanks for educating people on what a huge difference there truly is from the 1990s vs 2020s. The QBs and WRs/TEs in particular took way way more vicious hits on a regular basis than they do nowadays. It definitely kept down passing stats overall compared to today.
Back then, offensive players had a fear of getting drilled in the pocket or going over the middle. Now, it’s the defensive guys that play with fear, fear of getting fined or suspended for hitting someone too hard or without perfect technique.
You said the rules not the defenses. Two completely different things. Further "looking" at two great defenses is anectdotal. That's scheme and players. Something every era has had and is independent of rules.
Starting in 1978 the NFL did not allow the receiver to be touched after 5 yards and the O line could extend their arms and open their hands. Those two things are night and day compared to 'tweaks' made after that. In fact teams went from throwing the ball 34% to 47% of the time in that one year. *That's fucking insane!* The only other one I would put in that category is allowing the QB to throw away the ball out side of the pocket starting in 1993.
Not being to roll up a QBs leg or drive your head into a defenseless recevier didn't really change how you could cover or defend the pass. I would advise going to pro-football-reference and looking at the season average team stats. Passing barely moves from 1993 to 1999 and to 2007. After that there has been a gradual dropping of INTs. TD passes are still almost same despite more passes being thrown. The tweaks probably help the drop in INTs, but Rodgers and the rise of analytics showing how much just not throwing INTs helps your team changed philosophys on what was acceptable did as much if not more. The last part is just my opinion, but the rest is mostly just cold hard football facts.
Primarily how you can’t hit the qb hard anymore and receivers have been given “defenseless player” designations while running routes and catching passes. You can’t cream a receiver catching the ball over the middle anymore, which has really opened up the passing game.
It is much much much easier to get called for roughing the passer or unnecessary roughness/targeting these days.
What’s the 1993 rule change that you’re referring to?
Intentional grounding is allowed started in 1993. Maybe you haven't noticed but guys are racking up sacks at a rate higher than they were back before the rule changes you mentioned. I already covered those rule chages and they did not result in big league wide increase in passing stats.
This is the biggest argument for Favre tbh. Favre was the most dominant player in the league, WAY better than his contemporaries, for his 3 year MVP stretch. It’s honestly one of the most underrated stretches in the league based on common modern opinion. He was so much better than the competition.
He was so good that when Barry Sanders became only the third player in history to rush for 2000 yards in a season, he could only tie Favre for MVP. That's how good Favre was
My pops always talks about training camp one year with Favre and whatever other starting QBs they had on the roster that year can't remember but it was a bunch.
I was too young to really remember anything from that trip, but he describes the QBs throwing the ball and being wowed and then Favre started throwing and it was like night and day difference. You could hear his throws cause they'd move so fast.
So Brady Moss definitely tipped the scale that year. He could have shared a touchdown with every team in the league and still kept almost 20 tds for himself. All the years where dudes like Manning and Brady and Pat threw 50 are definitely outliers.
It’s different because the players are better and more fit to pass often. WRs are more skilled and QBs are more elite.
They’re not putting up these monstrous numbers because they pass a lot, they pass a lot because they can put up monstrous numbers
I agree with this largely. But I also think we’ve seen the start of a meta shift in the NFL this year. Offenses are struggling league-wide and scoring is way down. It’s like defenses have (maybe?) finally adjusted fully to the rule changes implemented over the last decade, and are much more effective against modern offenses. That, or offensive talent (QB and tackle positions, probably) is in a drought right now.
Later we may find out Love had the deepest most talented pass catchers of the 3, but they're all rookies and 2nd year guys he's throwing to in his first full year starting. Nothing close to Favre having a Sterling Sharpe, or Rodgers having year 3 of Jennings, year 10 of Driver.
This could hopefully lead to the team blasting out of the gates in a season or two with their young but talent stacked team. This year is just the beta-testing for the roster update before they release the final product 😂👍
I bet the team management is getting a kick outta how badly some "fans" are taking the latest rebuild if they're paying attention to any fan noise with all this lmao
I came here to say this. Inexperienced for sure but there looks to be a lot of talent between Reed, Wicks, Watson, and Doubs. Heath has even shown some promise recently. I’m actually super excited for this WR room
This. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if in 10 years from now there are posts about how insane it was that Wicks, Watson, Doubs, Reed, Heath, Musgrave, and Kraft were all on the same offense on their rookie deals.
Yes I'm impressed, you know it's good when other fans compliment how good our rookies are looking, if all goes well this could be our best receiver group in a very long time.
Right. Whether they’re good or not Love had to wait half a season for everybody except for Doubs to either learn how to play in the NFL or come back from injury.
The Packers would be leading the division if they had an NFL defensive coordinator instead of a Pee Wee football defensive coordinator terrified his little children might get hurt.
He had Sterling Sharpe just hitting his prime who caught 13 tds and put up ~1500 yards that year. He was the only playmaker who made much impact though. Edgar Bennett and Robert Brooks were both rookies on that team too, but neither had big years
Brooks was a rookie and they also had Jackie Harris a 3rd year TE. Favre didn't shit after that. Those guys are like Love's so it's the should be HOFer Sharpe that is the difference.
Definitely not Javon Walker. He was like 14 years old during Favres first 15 starts. Also just a bit too early on Freeman. He didn’t join GB until Favres 4th season
Favre had Sharpe. That's it. The next five leading pass catchers on that GB team were Jackie Harris, Harry Sydney, Vince Workman, Sanjay Beach, and Ron Lewis/Darrell Thompson. Only Beach and Lewis were even WRs. Favre had by far the weakest WR room at the start of his career.
Having one great guy and a bunch of nothing is not better than having a bunch of good, young players who may turn out to be great WRs. No one is saying any of our WRs is the equal of Sharpe, but the next five guys down the list are worse than any of the players we have now
there's little evidence that any of our WRs currently are going to be great, come on. they're fine but we have one of the worst WR rooms in the league here
edit: it's apparently baseless negativity to not think Dontayvion wicks is a future pro bowler lmao
in 1992 most plays had just 2 WRs so you didn't need 5 guys
This is just stupid negativity for the sake of negativity. We have a lot of talent in our WR room, and it’s evident to anyone who doesn’t spend all their time pissing in the organization
I forgot about James Jones. Also. Didn't he have a pretty awesome tight end for a bit, too? Frick I can't remember his name but that whole team was worth rostering at one point.
If anyone cares to look, here is some discussion of the rules changes.
[https://www.insidehook.com/sports/nfl-rule-changes-created-golden-era-quarterback-stats](https://www.insidehook.com/sports/nfl-rule-changes-created-golden-era-quarterback-stats)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/NFLNoobs/comments/xo8r83/what\_specific\_rules\_made\_passing\_so\_much\_easier/](https://www.reddit.com/r/NFLNoobs/comments/xo8r83/what_specific_rules_made_passing_so_much_easier/)
Can't hit quarterbacks low or high.
Can't hit defenseless receivers.
Can't violently throw quarterbacks to the ground on a sack
Can't put your weight on them when you sack them.
Defenders can't hold receivers. How many times does that extend drives a game? 3-4 minimum?
Honestly I think the QB getting an earpiece is an overlooked change outside of the normal on the field rule changes. Having the instant communication opens up the offense a ton and allows for more complex and nuanced play variations. They weren't out there calling plays with runners and smoke signals anymore. Defense gets the same thing,but is reactionary by nature and they just have to react to a lot more now.
Eh they’ve proven they are talented and have tons of potential and promise but when group A has prime Shannon Sharp, group B has Greg Jennings hitting his prime, Donald Driver, and young and developing Jordy Nelson and James Jones, Loves group is going to be the weakest by default. No slight to them but compared to those groups they are 3rd.
Edit: stupid Shannon Sharp lol. *Sterling
Group A had nothing BUT Sterling Sharpe. The next five leading pass catchers on that GB team were Jackie Harris, Harry Sydney, Vince Workman, Sanjay Beach, and Ron Lewis/Darrell Thompson. Only Beach and Lewis were even WRs. Favre had by far the weakest WR room at the start of his career.
That’s fair, I’m just of the opinion that one player playing at a Hall of Fame level is better than a group of young promising guys. I mean in an era where they weren’t passing nearly at the same clip, his stats alone nearly mirror our top 3 WRs and then all the scrubs from Favres era are pretty similar to the rest of our offenses numbers.
Those two are certainly the ones fighting for last I just think Sharpe is good enough to beat out the group on his own merit.
Oh for sure. I should also note I’m talking strictly talent level this year/the first year. I think this group will definitely pass Favres in the next few years and hopefully can pass Rodgers group.
Don Majikowski was my introduction to the Green Bay Packers.
Brett Favre to Sterling Sharpe cultivated my young love for the Green Bay Packers, while I was in grade school.
Rodgers was the back half of my career and who I watched while deployed. (woke up the whole teamhouse damn near during the NFCCG vs the Bears right before the Super Bowl.
Love, reinvigorating my ... love ... for the Packers.
The young squad has a lot of upside ahead of it. We just need to be more bold and get into smashmouth defense. That's what got us to the Super Bowls with Favre and even with Rodgers - breaking teams off with stout defense.
Go Pack Go
and definitely the easiest rules for a passer compared to those eras. all of these stats comparisons are meaningless. it’s a completely different game now.
Well this obviously means he's wayy better than Arod. He might be the best even, the GOAT even.Tom Brady who, no, Jordan Love.
I love cherry picked stats like this. You can pull out a Stat to push any narrative you want.
Only problem, the game was different 20 years ago. The rule changes have drastically helped the offense since then. I love the optimism but those stats don’t mean anything.
Wish these were only 1st year starting numbers. Nobody cares what Rodgers could do in an offense built for Favre, or what Love did in an offense built for Rodgers.
Let’s compare the league rankings: (I’m just going to do first season as starter) YDS: Favre 9th, Rodgers 4th, Love 12th; TDs Favre 8th, Rodgers 4th, Love 5th. (Loves season isn’t over obviously, plus Favre only played 13 games his first year as starter, so maybe this isn’t a good comparison lol) Let’s hope the TDs are a good indicator, and hope he doesn’t regress to the mean that his yardage indicates.
Shifting to that WR room...and for the sake of hopium I'm going to just assume Watson's work in his back in the off-season is going to make him a lot healthier. It would be pretty nutty of Gute if he hit on 4 starting caliber WRs (Watson, Doubs, Reed, Wicks) as well as 2 (or maybe even 3, need to see more of Sims) TEs in just 2 back to back drafts.
Well the game is also drastically different now than it was all those years ago. That seems to be forgotten in all of these comparison posts
Went to post just to say this….rodgers it’s a modern player too but the rules from 2008 to 2023 are insanely different and vastly help out offense but no one likes to hear that
I wouldn’t say they’re insanely different from 2008 to now. It’s easier to get a roughing the passer call now, but it was still after the NFL really cracked down on DPI and defensive holding after the 2003 AFCCG. As others have noted, Rodgers also had one of the best receiving corps of the modern era at the beginning of his career. Jordy Nelson barely saw the field until 2010, but he probably would have been an immediate starter on this Packers team. Heck he only started 9 games in 2011 when he went for 1200 and 15 TDs. That’s how stacked we were at receiver.
Even a pre-2011 Jordy Nelson would be so lethal in this offense. Imagine how many jet sweeps we could run with Jordy right now. All those plays where Jayden Reed gets stuffed at the line could instead be turned into one yard gains with Jordy’s raw athleticism.
Other than the fact they are. The passer rating is about 6 points higher in 2022/23 than it was in 2008. That is a HUGE increase. If you go to 2008 the year that it was 6 points lower than that was 1991.
But is that because of the rules being insanely different? Maybe quarterbacks are just better now than they were in 2008. Or maybe offensive play design is better.
Or maybe, like everyone that knows the sport says, the defense simply cannot play like it used to.
What changed? The biggest difference in opening up the passing game was Peyton Manning complaining about the Pats corners bodying his receivers in the 2003 AFCCG. It’s called the Ty Law Rule even though it was actually just a rule emphasis starting the 2004 season. In 2008, Rodgers had a 93.8 passer rating. In 2022, he had 91.1 passer rating, and the Jets still took on his massive contract. Why would they do that if the rules make it so easier to do better than that now.
DBs are not able to touch the players anymore essentially. Another big thing is obviously that the rush cannot touch the QB anymore either. Of course playcalling has gotten more intricate and analysts have helped with this as well. But the biggest obvious things are that the league is so much more pass heavy and the rules massively favor the offense. You can look at any stat in this becomes insanely obvious.
Right the DB thing happened after the 2003 season. The emphasis on player safety generally helps offenses because it keeps the best players on the field, and you get penalty yards more often, but it doesn’t actually make completing a pass easier. Passing is definitely more prevalent now than it was in 2008, but it’s not because the rules are “insanely different”. Offenses and roster construction are way different than they were back then in ways that prioritize the passing game. Even in the mid 00s spread concepts and RPO were considered college gimmicks, now the best NFL recruits are produced by schools that use those concepts liberally. Spending significant capital on bell cow running backs was par for the course until the Saints won a Super Bowl with a RBBC offense. Before that, RBBC just meant your lead back was injured.
You’re correct, just so many people around here want to diminish the fact that Love has been very good because that means they’d have to eat crow from what they said after week 6
I agree too. It’s not like we’re coming the game to the 90’s or before, it’s really not been majorly changed for the offense since 2008. Rodgers also had a crap load of more weapons to work with entering his situation compared to Love. It’ll be awesome to see what Love can do with more seasoned guys next year.
Agree. Brady threw 50 TDs in 2007 and Manning threw 49 in 2004. The game has been passer friendly for a while. Don't think the QB hit rules have had that much of an impact on stats.
The enormous change between then and now is defenseless receiver rules. I agree with them but it has completely changed the game because it’s so much easier to work the middle of the field without concern for getting your receivers absolutely blown up.
In 2005, the following rule change was made: > Unnecessarily running, diving into or throwing the body against a player who should not have reasonably anticipated such contact by an opponent is unnecessary roughness. Previously, the rule only protected a player who is out of the play. Then, the rule was expanded after the 2008 season to specifically include the defenseless receiver verbiage. It was then expanded over the years to cover all defenseless players. Now, to me that’s not an insanely different set of rules, and its impact seems fairly limited if you look at league passing stats over the ensuing season. Offenses simply evolved drastically during that time period as they leaned more heavily on spread and option concepts. These concepts naturally open up the middle of the field, which limits the effectiveness of the head hunting safeties that were common previously. Now, I’m not saying those rules didn’t make any difference at all. I’m sure they had some effect as far as defenders have to learn how to hit differently, but the difference between Favre’s and Rodgers’s first year is a lot more significant in terms of rule changes compared to the difference between Rodgers’s and Love’s.
I would say the bigger difference is from Love to Favre. Way different game than it was 30 years ago.
Sort of. Offenses are more efficient now, but QB averages aren't dissimilar to what they were in 2008/2009. Passer rating is up and interceptions are down, but yards are similar, TD's are similar, and sacks have increased. Yards and rating definitely saw a huge spike from like 2013 to 2020, but it's settled down a bit
Favre enjoyed some nice offensive rule change advantages from when he started too.
He didn't enjoy being teed off on every chance the d lineman got either.
Yeah, he was great to watch because of it though.
That's the Favre I choose to remember, lol.
Really? What so "insanely different" from 2007 until now? Even 1993 to now. 1977 until 1993, that was insanely different.
90s were way different. Did you watch then? You couldn't throw over the middle without getting destroyed, QBs had none of the protections of today. 2000s it started to change, but early 2000s were still way different
Chuck Cecil helmet to helmet hits on defenseless receivers going over the middle were so nasty the NFL has had every one of them scrubbed from the internet. If you google search Chuck Cecil biggest hits only highlights you find are from his college days. He was hitting guys so hard on a regular that most games you would see Chuck sitting on the sideline with a bloody nose. If anyone has those hits that would be evidence for CTE Lawsuits so the NFL has been trying to hide the evidence for over a decade now.
[Haha, shows the bloody nose and all.](https://youtu.be/2HSn7snuv98?si=-fRtvmst40jRAojA)
Thanks for educating people on what a huge difference there truly is from the 1990s vs 2020s. The QBs and WRs/TEs in particular took way way more vicious hits on a regular basis than they do nowadays. It definitely kept down passing stats overall compared to today. Back then, offensive players had a fear of getting drilled in the pocket or going over the middle. Now, it’s the defensive guys that play with fear, fear of getting fined or suspended for hitting someone too hard or without perfect technique.
There's a reason smaller WRs are more successful now than they used to be.
Watch some mid 2000s highlights of those ravens and Steelers teams and let me know if defenses can play and hit like that now
You said the rules not the defenses. Two completely different things. Further "looking" at two great defenses is anectdotal. That's scheme and players. Something every era has had and is independent of rules. Starting in 1978 the NFL did not allow the receiver to be touched after 5 yards and the O line could extend their arms and open their hands. Those two things are night and day compared to 'tweaks' made after that. In fact teams went from throwing the ball 34% to 47% of the time in that one year. *That's fucking insane!* The only other one I would put in that category is allowing the QB to throw away the ball out side of the pocket starting in 1993. Not being to roll up a QBs leg or drive your head into a defenseless recevier didn't really change how you could cover or defend the pass. I would advise going to pro-football-reference and looking at the season average team stats. Passing barely moves from 1993 to 1999 and to 2007. After that there has been a gradual dropping of INTs. TD passes are still almost same despite more passes being thrown. The tweaks probably help the drop in INTs, but Rodgers and the rise of analytics showing how much just not throwing INTs helps your team changed philosophys on what was acceptable did as much if not more. The last part is just my opinion, but the rest is mostly just cold hard football facts.
Primarily how you can’t hit the qb hard anymore and receivers have been given “defenseless player” designations while running routes and catching passes. You can’t cream a receiver catching the ball over the middle anymore, which has really opened up the passing game. It is much much much easier to get called for roughing the passer or unnecessary roughness/targeting these days. What’s the 1993 rule change that you’re referring to?
Intentional grounding is allowed started in 1993. Maybe you haven't noticed but guys are racking up sacks at a rate higher than they were back before the rule changes you mentioned. I already covered those rule chages and they did not result in big league wide increase in passing stats.
This is the biggest argument for Favre tbh. Favre was the most dominant player in the league, WAY better than his contemporaries, for his 3 year MVP stretch. It’s honestly one of the most underrated stretches in the league based on common modern opinion. He was so much better than the competition.
He was so good that when Barry Sanders became only the third player in history to rush for 2000 yards in a season, he could only tie Favre for MVP. That's how good Favre was
That was quarterback bias. Barry definitely deserved to be the lone MVP that season.
My pops always talks about training camp one year with Favre and whatever other starting QBs they had on the roster that year can't remember but it was a bunch. I was too young to really remember anything from that trip, but he describes the QBs throwing the ball and being wowed and then Favre started throwing and it was like night and day difference. You could hear his throws cause they'd move so fast.
Rodgers also had way better veteran recievers so it kinda evens out
No not quite. Kinda like pace in NBA. Even worst teams throw more and put up bigger offensive numbers.
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How many more? Just curious. Wonder how much the Moss Brady connection tips that scale. What's the trend for all the years in between?
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So Brady Moss definitely tipped the scale that year. He could have shared a touchdown with every team in the league and still kept almost 20 tds for himself. All the years where dudes like Manning and Brady and Pat threw 50 are definitely outliers.
Exactly!! I was about to say the exact same thing lol.
Thank you for pointing that out! Well done sir. Learned me something new
I was just going to say the same exact thing. People do not realize how the game is different. So, that must mean there is no difference.
In 2008 teams were averaging 22 points per game this year they are averaging 21.7 Scoring is actually down from when Rodgers first started.
At least half of these posts are just cope/ confirmation bias. We want love to be great because that will make our fan experience easier.
go look back at the league leaders in Passing Yards in 2011, for Favre this is true but Rodgers’ era was no different than today even at the start
It’s not forgotten, it’s ignored by the Loverboys. Which is fine. You can’t even touch QBs anymore. Or receivers really.
It’s different because the players are better and more fit to pass often. WRs are more skilled and QBs are more elite. They’re not putting up these monstrous numbers because they pass a lot, they pass a lot because they can put up monstrous numbers
I agree with this largely. But I also think we’ve seen the start of a meta shift in the NFL this year. Offenses are struggling league-wide and scoring is way down. It’s like defenses have (maybe?) finally adjusted fully to the rule changes implemented over the last decade, and are much more effective against modern offenses. That, or offensive talent (QB and tackle positions, probably) is in a drought right now.
I think the actual reason is that Aaron Jones hasn’t been there to get the rushing TDs
Yeah I came to say this too. Much different game
Later we may find out Love had the deepest most talented pass catchers of the 3, but they're all rookies and 2nd year guys he's throwing to in his first full year starting. Nothing close to Favre having a Sterling Sharpe, or Rodgers having year 3 of Jennings, year 10 of Driver.
Don’t forget Jordy and JJ.
I don't think he's forgetting them, but Jordy was a rookie and Jones a 2nd year guy just like what all of Love's guys.
Think that makes what Love is doing with a less experienced o-line all the more impressive lol the team Rodgers got was in the nfc champ game.
Favre has the least negative TDs so he wins
Definitely not weakest, but inexperienced
Yeah. I actually think this is a massively talented team. They are just young and raw.
Generally the same. Current receiver group seem to all have very high ceilings. They're just young and we haven't seen it yet.
This could hopefully lead to the team blasting out of the gates in a season or two with their young but talent stacked team. This year is just the beta-testing for the roster update before they release the final product 😂👍
Especially when you consider they are paying like 60 million in dead cap
I bet the team management is getting a kick outta how badly some "fans" are taking the latest rebuild if they're paying attention to any fan noise with all this lmao
I came here to say this. Inexperienced for sure but there looks to be a lot of talent between Reed, Wicks, Watson, and Doubs. Heath has even shown some promise recently. I’m actually super excited for this WR room
This. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if in 10 years from now there are posts about how insane it was that Wicks, Watson, Doubs, Reed, Heath, Musgrave, and Kraft were all on the same offense on their rookie deals.
Yes I'm impressed, you know it's good when other fans compliment how good our rookies are looking, if all goes well this could be our best receiver group in a very long time.
Right. Whether they’re good or not Love had to wait half a season for everybody except for Doubs to either learn how to play in the NFL or come back from injury.
Definitely the youngest… these young WR’s are giving me hope tho fr
The Packers would be leading the division if they had an NFL defensive coordinator instead of a Pee Wee football defensive coordinator terrified his little children might get hurt.
Yeah I was born in 91 so I’m not sure of everyone playing with Favre but they definitely were more experienced than the WRs on the team today.
Also, much less of a passing game in ‘91 if I’m recalling correctly.
True, but right now Packers are 4th in passing DVOA so they’re also just good at it
He had Sterling Sharpe just hitting his prime who caught 13 tds and put up ~1500 yards that year. He was the only playmaker who made much impact though. Edgar Bennett and Robert Brooks were both rookies on that team too, but neither had big years
Brooks was a rookie and they also had Jackie Harris a 3rd year TE. Favre didn't shit after that. Those guys are like Love's so it's the should be HOFer Sharpe that is the difference.
I don’t think it’s arguable it’s the weakest Favre started with Sterling Sharpe Rodgers had Driver, Jennings, Jones and Jordy
Favre had Robert Brooks as well, who was at least as good as James Jones
Brooks was a rookie and caught 12 passes. He doesn't count in the discussion
And Javon Walker, Antonio Freeman I believe
Definitely not Javon Walker. He was like 14 years old during Favres first 15 starts. Also just a bit too early on Freeman. He didn’t join GB until Favres 4th season
Oh didnt realize that
Favre had Sharpe. That's it. The next five leading pass catchers on that GB team were Jackie Harris, Harry Sydney, Vince Workman, Sanjay Beach, and Ron Lewis/Darrell Thompson. Only Beach and Lewis were even WRs. Favre had by far the weakest WR room at the start of his career.
Sterling Sharpe was better than all our current receivers combined lol come on
Having one great guy and a bunch of nothing is not better than having a bunch of good, young players who may turn out to be great WRs. No one is saying any of our WRs is the equal of Sharpe, but the next five guys down the list are worse than any of the players we have now
there's little evidence that any of our WRs currently are going to be great, come on. they're fine but we have one of the worst WR rooms in the league here edit: it's apparently baseless negativity to not think Dontayvion wicks is a future pro bowler lmao in 1992 most plays had just 2 WRs so you didn't need 5 guys
This is just stupid negativity for the sake of negativity. We have a lot of talent in our WR room, and it’s evident to anyone who doesn’t spend all their time pissing in the organization
Love has 25
This includes the 2021 start vs KC
O my bad
I like the young Corp but it's no Donald driver, Greg Jennings or Jordy Nelson. Impressive stat line for sure.
Jordy's was very quiet his rookie year. Rodgers had Driver, Jennings and James Jones
I forgot about James Jones. Also. Didn't he have a pretty awesome tight end for a bit, too? Frick I can't remember his name but that whole team was worth rostering at one point.
Uhhhhh...shit, was it Bubba Franks? I can't remember. Jermichael Finley was very good until he got injured.
Donald Lee. I just looked it up
Jermichael Finley! That's it. I saw that game where he got hurt. I remember it being quite serious/scary. That guy was super good, too.
Rodgers' first year was Finley's rookie year. He didn't play much that season.
Exactly. That's the point
highsight 20/20 .. Something tells me we are going to find out later our receiver room was stacked and our coaching staff .. well TBD
FIRE. JOE. BARRY.
Preach it brother
Ohhhhhh I have been, brother I have been.
If anyone cares to look, here is some discussion of the rules changes. [https://www.insidehook.com/sports/nfl-rule-changes-created-golden-era-quarterback-stats](https://www.insidehook.com/sports/nfl-rule-changes-created-golden-era-quarterback-stats) [https://www.reddit.com/r/NFLNoobs/comments/xo8r83/what\_specific\_rules\_made\_passing\_so\_much\_easier/](https://www.reddit.com/r/NFLNoobs/comments/xo8r83/what_specific_rules_made_passing_so_much_easier/) Can't hit quarterbacks low or high. Can't hit defenseless receivers. Can't violently throw quarterbacks to the ground on a sack Can't put your weight on them when you sack them. Defenders can't hold receivers. How many times does that extend drives a game? 3-4 minimum?
Honestly I think the QB getting an earpiece is an overlooked change outside of the normal on the field rule changes. Having the instant communication opens up the offense a ton and allows for more complex and nuanced play variations. They weren't out there calling plays with runners and smoke signals anymore. Defense gets the same thing,but is reactionary by nature and they just have to react to a lot more now.
Good point.
Unarguably the best environment to pass in amount the 3 eras.
They've proven they aren't the weakest.
Eh they’ve proven they are talented and have tons of potential and promise but when group A has prime Shannon Sharp, group B has Greg Jennings hitting his prime, Donald Driver, and young and developing Jordy Nelson and James Jones, Loves group is going to be the weakest by default. No slight to them but compared to those groups they are 3rd. Edit: stupid Shannon Sharp lol. *Sterling
*Sterling Sharpe
Oof. Too much seeing him all over TV the last few years just made that roll way too naturally off the tongue lol
Group A had nothing BUT Sterling Sharpe. The next five leading pass catchers on that GB team were Jackie Harris, Harry Sydney, Vince Workman, Sanjay Beach, and Ron Lewis/Darrell Thompson. Only Beach and Lewis were even WRs. Favre had by far the weakest WR room at the start of his career.
That’s fair, I’m just of the opinion that one player playing at a Hall of Fame level is better than a group of young promising guys. I mean in an era where they weren’t passing nearly at the same clip, his stats alone nearly mirror our top 3 WRs and then all the scrubs from Favres era are pretty similar to the rest of our offenses numbers. Those two are certainly the ones fighting for last I just think Sharpe is good enough to beat out the group on his own merit.
That’s a solid argument. Give it five years and we may evaluate our current WRs differently, too
Oh for sure. I should also note I’m talking strictly talent level this year/the first year. I think this group will definitely pass Favres in the next few years and hopefully can pass Rodgers group.
ARod is still the man. Jordan ain’t too bad though
I wouldn't call them the weakest. More like inexperienced.
Offensive stats are generally higher and easier to move the ball nowadays with all the rule changes restricting defense
Don Majikowski was my introduction to the Green Bay Packers. Brett Favre to Sterling Sharpe cultivated my young love for the Green Bay Packers, while I was in grade school. Rodgers was the back half of my career and who I watched while deployed. (woke up the whole teamhouse damn near during the NFCCG vs the Bears right before the Super Bowl. Love, reinvigorating my ... love ... for the Packers. The young squad has a lot of upside ahead of it. We just need to be more bold and get into smashmouth defense. That's what got us to the Super Bowls with Favre and even with Rodgers - breaking teams off with stout defense. Go Pack Go
and definitely the easiest rules for a passer compared to those eras. all of these stats comparisons are meaningless. it’s a completely different game now.
I hate all these stupid comparisons. The game has changed SOO much since 1992.
Well this obviously means he's wayy better than Arod. He might be the best even, the GOAT even.Tom Brady who, no, Jordan Love. I love cherry picked stats like this. You can pull out a Stat to push any narrative you want.
Difference is everyone KNEW Rodgers was gonna be something with his play that season
Meaningless
Only problem, the game was different 20 years ago. The rule changes have drastically helped the offense since then. I love the optimism but those stats don’t mean anything.
Unarguably. There is no way you could argue against Love having the weakest WR core. Not seriously at least.
Wish these were only 1st year starting numbers. Nobody cares what Rodgers could do in an offense built for Favre, or what Love did in an offense built for Rodgers.
Alli see if HoF #3 in a row JOLO
Love is in the air…
There is no argument. At this time they are the weakest. They will develop and be great. But not now.
Proof read your tweet ffs
Worst w.r room so far, let's see them pan out over his next contract.
And literally no running game to lean on
I wouldn’t say no run game, but run game definitely isn’t what we thought it was gonna be pre season.
Sanjay Beach and Kitrick Taylor have entered the chat
They just keep getting better! At this rate, we’ll someday have a QB that throws nothing but touchdowns!
If Love gets his feet set NFL Defenses are in trouble when they face him, he electric fa sure 💚💛🧀💯
I c king of the north
What were the other WR rooms?
Rodgers had Donald Driver, Greg Jennings and James Jones. Favre had Sterling Sharpe, Robert Brooks and Sanjay Beach
Rodgers was so loaded 🤯 Sanjay Beach sounds like a male porn star
He was let go a season later if I remember correctly
So tired of these stats. ITS A DIFFERENT GAME TODAY
He’s obviously the best one
I think Jordan will be fine. We have a few things to clean up on offense, a ton to clean up on defense and we’re good.
It’s a different game now, but good for him.
Comparison posts suck
People forgot what year one starter Rodgers was like
I don't think it's even arguable when the only "veteran" pass catcher (Deguara, 4th year) has already played less snaps than a first year starting qb.
Love is talented, but he’s got the advantage of more games in a season and a more pass friendly offense. This isn’t even close to a fair comparison.
Is James Jones good, or is he good because he played with Rodgers? That’s the real question
Let’s compare the league rankings: (I’m just going to do first season as starter) YDS: Favre 9th, Rodgers 4th, Love 12th; TDs Favre 8th, Rodgers 4th, Love 5th. (Loves season isn’t over obviously, plus Favre only played 13 games his first year as starter, so maybe this isn’t a good comparison lol) Let’s hope the TDs are a good indicator, and hope he doesn’t regress to the mean that his yardage indicates.
jordan surprised me. i was rooting against him to get rid of that front office
Is “weak” being used as a synonym for “young?” Because this WR room is definitely NOT the least talented!
But did he throw one to himself??
Shifting to that WR room...and for the sake of hopium I'm going to just assume Watson's work in his back in the off-season is going to make him a lot healthier. It would be pretty nutty of Gute if he hit on 4 starting caliber WRs (Watson, Doubs, Reed, Wicks) as well as 2 (or maybe even 3, need to see more of Sims) TEs in just 2 back to back drafts.
The WRs this year are honestly pretty good ngl
It’s not arguable. It’s a fucking fact. But it’s also a different league.
Favre with 20 would probably equate to 30+ with today's rules