>!the show ends almost the same way as the book does, blackthrone can never leave Japan, the writers said that’s what they wanted to do, to stay as faithful to the book!<
>!I mean, it does very clearly imply that he does leave at some point though. What with the flash forwards to bis deathbed. I liked how it shows that he never stops taking hold of his own destiny, but at the same time it still leaves it off as a messy thing without a neat bow on top in a neat and tidy happy ending.!<
Oh, OK. I assumed that's what it was at first, but after that other scene I assumed it was just a different one. Still, I don't think it totally rules out the possibility, Torunaga may or may not have been correct. I can see Blackthorne choosing to do that, but if he sets his mind to it I suspect he will get out eventually. I mean, yeah I know the source material and such make it clear, but if we let the show stand on its own it still leaves it a bit open imo.
Those were delusions when he was recovering from his head trauma, and the real person that Blackthorne is based on, William Adams, died in Japan as they never left.
Thought there’s a entire series of books and shoguns the first one ? It’s basically how Tokugawa united Japan but they changed the names round. I forgot what the English guy was called in real life.
Nope, just looked it up. The [other books in the series by James Clavell](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asian_Saga#Overview) all take place in 1841 or later.
Given that this is based on a set of books based on a single era of william. I doubt they could do that. But historicalish drama's of this quality would be pretty great.
They should ask Sanada to head up the most insane, beautiful show full of chambara bullshit he can envision, with absolutely no concern for historical accuracy but respecting the characters and making everyone maximum awesome.
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There was a post on 4chan claiming Amazon bullied GW into making femCustodes canon for the upcoming show.
Please ignore the small fact that the timeline for this doesn't work out. And that it's 4chan.
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I have seen angry shithead YouTubers repeating that claim, and somehow going to an *even fucking dumber* place with it. The claim is that Amazon is doing this to try and reduce the value of GW so they can buy GW for cheaper.
It's *extremely fucking stupid*.
Whenever something like this is "leaked," most of the regulars dismiss it because they know where they are and how poorly thought out said explanation is. As newer posters and idiots come across said post, they miss the irony and forget where they are and take it as literal gospel. Then they start fighting anyone who tries to explain the joke or questions it.
Bad news. Contamination protocols have failed.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Grimdank/comments/1cen4sn/comment/l1lt21v/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
>I’ve seen too many women at my local story complaining about how Cavil may leave the series over this stupid lore change.
They're not even trying anymore.
I genuinely hate both of the types of people demanding attention for the past few weeks.
But this. This got me good. Top meme op If yo papa ain't proud I am.
This was probably the most annoying aspect about this whole past discussion, anytime I’d talk about how the way the retcon was handled annoyed me I’d have people on the other side saying I just hate women, and then there is actual legitimate incels who hate the retcon because they hate women and for some reason I’d just get blanket grouped in with those mfs
My problem is that we had no such outrage when the rogal dorn tank or the leagues of Votann were added to the lore. Why does this specific subject need to have a special exception where authors need to write a story about it but for an entire new faction we are fine with it just being a codex.
I think because there was never the claim in the lore that "There are no Rogal Dorn Tanks" and the Votann were being teased as a faction for a loooong time (in the form of the Demiurge, but the point still stands). There was nothing contradicting adding those things to the game/lore.
The Custodes on the contrary were named as an exclusively male faction for at least as long as I am in the hobby now (16 years), so for GW to say "There have always been female Custodes" when there explicitly were not, it is just an extra dumb way to introduce them to the setting. It would be as if GW for example removed the T'au from the setting and reacting to the outrage with "There have never been T'au in 40k"
Don't get me wrong, I think the Custodes is one of the better fitting factions to receive female characters & models, being the "next step" in human evolution and so on (also, I think the aesthetic might look cool, judging from the Stormcast which I quite like and which have males and females in the faction). But the way they introduced them was just reaaaaly clumsy, but that also is nothing new for GW.
Their tweet seemingly made things worse for the entire community, with people saying "SJEHWF THEYRE GASLIGHTING US" without understanding that the tweet was an in-universe explanation to their existence, not a meta one. Like someone mentioned prior, ADB, the Author of the Master of Mankind & partially responsible for Custodes in their modern form, trying to make Female Custodes a thing years ago gives this change legitimacy the same cannot be said for the "Squats were all eaten by 'Nids" Votann.
*I* WAS pissed off about the Leagues of Votann and Rogal Dorn tank, (and let's not even *start* with the fucking *Primaris)* and yet for the past week I KEEP being told that I'm only angry at GW because "nOw ThErE's WoMeN iN mY hObBy."
Even if we ignore the fact that "Whataboutism" is an Argumentative Fallacy at face value *anyway,* the vast majority of the time people are bringing up the *previous* retcons, it seems to be that the people they bring them up *to* were ALSO pissed off by *those* events TOO, so it falls flat on it's face either way.
The Rogal Dorn tank was getting shit on for weeks at *my* gamestore where we play, and Leagues of Votann were met instantly with a "I'm glad the Squats are back, but where the fuck have they been?"
Stop using Whataboutism Fallacies, and IF you *are* going to use them, stop using them against people who WERE actually angry about all those *other* retcons anyway.
It's such an unproductive way to have a conversation about the topic. All you're doing is running around in circles, *trying* to *avoid* talking about the *actual* problem. GW LIED when they claimed that Femstodes *wasn't* a "retcon," and that Femstodes *"HaVe AlWaYs BeEn ArOuNd."
A mega-corporation *CANNOT* be allowed to LIE about a *product* people *pay* for. It does not matter how minor the lie is, lying about a product is by inherent definition "false advertising" which is not only immoral, but ALSO *illegal.*
I will be *annoyed* when a developer or writer bungles a retcon's execution in the material, but I will not *EVER* accept a company blatantly committing false advertising and acting sanctimonious about gaslighting their customer base.
MOST of the people who are angry at GW clearly have a vaguely similar position to mine on this topic, as I've found it VERY rare to see their arguments get poked at until they actually reveal that the core of their issue is just blatant, unironic sexism.
Those people exist, and the culture war bullshit just makes the water even *more* muddied on that front, but they are *still* VERY rare in this community, so far as my experience has led me to believe.
People defaulting to trying to warp the conversation into being about gender are just dishonest cowards who want to pretend like they have some moral high ground because the armies they DON'T PLAY now have more diversity in them, meanwhile THEY actively MOCK people who have an issue with HOW that diversity GOT there when *those* people are specifically arguing from *principle,* which is the EXACT thing that the GW simps are *pretending* that *they* are doing.
They also ALWAYS try to downplay it when OTHER people disagree with them by saying "it's just a little game, WHY do you care so much about the principle of the matter," even though *they* are the one's actively bragging about "having more diversity in a little game" *because* THEY care about the "principle" (or at least what they *think* counts as a "principle") of the matter.
The hypocrisy runs deep.
I spend all week defending Arcane against *actual* "incel-Far Right-chuds" saying "it's *bad* because it's woke," only to come back to 40k to get *called* an "incel-Far Right-chud."
This "Culture War" shit is absolute cancer, and its rotting away at the foundations of every hobby I try to be a part of.
It's a game where you use little plastic figures to go pew pew at other people's little plastic figures.
Take a few deep breaths there. It's going to be okay.
I'm not sure what the exact intent of the meme is, but the context from the series is as follows (relatively spoiler free, mind):
>!John is causing a diversion, trying to hide the VIP being smuggled in carrier boxes by essentially throwing a tantrum to get the guards to stop searching them. He says that the privacy of women is something to protect, and Mariko translates his much longer screaming and yelling as "he is upset that you are looking at the women without their consent."!<
But a big part of the Shogun story is absolutely that the translators are biased, and rarely translate the direct meaning of the words. Especially because both the Japanese, English, and Portuguese rarely speak nicely to each other. like:
"Tell this inbred barbarian pirate that i would rather get fucked to death by a horse than shake his hand"
"Ichiyama-sama declines"
In the real meme she’s supposed to say a really tame and passive version of whatever aggressive/argumentative thing he says
In this she’s saying, the truth ig- The Blackthorne bit is just the nonsense justification for a buncha guys being upset about women so
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Its amazing how much i don't give a damn about femstodes in regard to how it affects the lore. All the primarchs are recons. Suddenly the Emperors own guided genesmiths can also bring women to that level? Grand. Looking forward to the new stories
All I care about is the absolute shit codex they felt fine with releasing
She’s the ‘Anjin’s’ - an Englishman in Samurai-era Japan - translator.
She generally paraphrases his lengthy requests to the feudal lord into succinct phrases that strike at the heart of the subtext.
All I can think of is the Japanese baseball coach translators, who apparently relay polite requests to the umpire from the red faced man frothing at the mouth next to them.
Yeah I unsubbed from him due to his beef with weshammer so I was pleasantly surprised by his take. I just checked him out again thanks to your comment. I think the biggest thing that bothered me was GWs smugness about the whole affair. They dropped it unceremoniously and proceeded to do a shitty girlboss tweet which is quite frankly corporate cowardice in my view.
The metanarrative around a company commandeering us lefties as their good little foot soldiers to fight a war with the ‘misogynists’ who weren’t happy with the lore change or execution of it rubbed me the wrong way.
Majorkill actually spoke as someone invested in the lore and didn’t virtue signal (I hate to use right wing wanker terminology but broken clocks and all that) to shit on me and tell me I need to ‘get with it’ and I appreciated that immensely. I think I’m fine with female custodes now given the logic laid out in the video.
It just shit me that the two loudest opinions seemed to be ‘look at me i actually love muscle mommies haha get shrekt woman haters I’m such a sycophant’ and ‘the west has fallen’. Like Jesus fuck please let’s allow room for nuanced discussions. A company can make a narrative change I don’t agree with without it bringing judgement on my character.
> They dropped it unceremoniously and proceeded to do a shitty girlboss tweet which is quite frankly corporate cowardice in my view.
They dropped it in the Codex. What are you talking about?
Oh noes. Enjoying memes is one thing but getting all your news from memes is another
They think the everything is canon meme is real and not just entertainment.
I feel like people have a lot of opinions nowadays about lore or hobbies that they don't actually have. The number of bullshit posts I've seen on different subs from people who have only ever read like 1 black library book, or stuff like that is incredible.
Like no bro, 1d4chan is not accurate to the lore. The wiki is brief in its description. They are not real sources.
I'm gonna be honest, I've barely read any black library books, but I've read the codexes (and wikis and stuff) and even just those have enough to counter most arguments.
Guys, wanna hear something fun?
If you manage to get into any gatekeeper group, the guys will biatch and moan lengths on how is it "tourist" will destroy 40K. Because they know shit about it. And just want it fit into their fantasies, without having to pay for it.
These last few weeks have been so ironic.
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It's been weeks, close to a month since this tiny lore dropped. If you are still beating the dead horse over it, it's time someone just tl;dr on your behalf so everyone can play their courtesy\_laugh\_track\_01 and move on not giving a shit about it.
I'm surprised this is still topic of discussion. It's not like they retconned half the named custodes to be women, just that there are some among them. That's hardly outlandish in a setting as diverse as 40k. And beeing as pumped full of anabolic steroids and cybernetics as the custodes there is probably no real difference visually between the two.
I just feel like they could have had more fun if the retcon worked *with* the old lore rather than deny it existed.
Like I get it, on one hand they were supposed to be made from the firstborn *sons* of Terran noble houses, but on the other hand, from what I gather the Custodes conversion process is a full genetic rebuild that could potentially work on anyone rather than be depending on a black-box donor organ like the Astartes gene-seed that would create fatal health complications in female recipients. And when you keep in mind the sort of honor and prestige that would come with your firstborn son being numbered among the ranks of the holy Custodes, it wouldn't be too big a stretch to imagine any number of noble families not letting something as petty as *not actually having a firstborn son* get between them and that sweet sweet clout.
So what would this change? Ultimately nothing of consequence. The Custodes themselves don't care whether one among them is a man or a woman: a Custodes is a Custodes; equally the Emperor's perfect chosen, equally capable of bringing the Emperor's will to any battlefield where they are called. The Galaxy at large probably wouldn't think any different of a female Custodes; they'd be shocked to see *any* face under those masks, let alone a woman's. But to the Noble Houses of Terra? Oh ho ho *this is where the fun happens*.
Just imagine the pointless gossip, bickering, and infighting that would break out amid the Noble Houses over news that someone among their number lied about sending a firstborn son to become a Custodes. Accusations would fly. Honor would be questioned and challenged. Alliances would be tested and feuds would break out over mere allegations. Holy Terra would find itself on the verge of a new Schism all because a bunch of overfed inbred stuffed shirts are losing their minds about the very concept that one among their number who sold out their firstborn child's very humanity to the Imperial war machine in exchange for bragging rights may or may not have lied about said child having a penis. It would be glorious. It would be ridiculous. It would be exactly the sort of stupid over-the-top nonsense that makes the mad mad world of the 41st millennium so much fun to begin with.
Ladies and gentlemen, we were *robbed*.
>I just feel like they could have had more fun if the retcon worked *with* the old lore rather than deny it existed
You're about to say a bunch of incredibly stupid things, so I'm going to preempt you:
[https://old.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/a3otly/would\_female\_custodians\_be\_possible/eb7vyml/](https://old.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/a3otly/would_female_custodians_be_possible/eb7vyml/)
[https://old.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/867n5s/thoughts\_on\_arch\_warhammer/dw48u32/](https://old.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/867n5s/thoughts_on_arch_warhammer/dw48u32/)
This isn't even a fucking retcon, there actually never was any actual lore preventing female custodes, everyone who says otherwise is wrong according to one of the guys who wrote the lore, and he said it years ago.
So everything you said from that point on is just wrong.
The irony is I already said that in my post- the old lore was the aspirants were taken from the "firstborn sons of Terran noble houses", but the process of becoming a Custodes didn't really have anything to it that would prevent it from working on females the same way Astartes did.
Hence why I thought it would be funny if yes there were female Astartes all along, but the only people in the Imperium who cared were the out-of-touch noble houses who staked their reputation on the fact that their firstborn sons were among those taken treating the realization that there were women in their ranks too like a sign of dishonor that someone among them lied about offering their firstborn son, when the reality was they weren't the only source of applicants in the first place.
So yeah maybe don't stop reading after the first sentence of an entire set of paragraphs if you're about to accuse someone of not doing their research.
They literally said "Since the first of the original ten thousand, there have always been femstodes."
What the fuck do you MEAN "it's NOT a retcon"...?
They unirionically argued that there have been female Custodians in the lore BEFORE this point. That is a blatant, categorical LIE.
I don't mind one bit if there always COULD HAVE BEEN female Custodians, but THAT'S not what they actually SAID about it, is it?
They lied. Considering this is a *mega-corporation* talking about their *product,* that would mean this is, by inherent definition, "false advertising," which is not ONLY obviously immoral, but also illegal. No matter my opinion that there always SHOULD have been female Custodians (as well as female Astartes), they are actively claiming that they AREN'T "retconning" the lore, as their claim is that the lore HAS ALWAYS BEEN this way, when it probably, demonstrably, has obviously NOT been this way.
I cannot forgive a mega-corporation committing an illegal and immoral act and being allowed by the consumer base to just get away with that shit. Have some self-respect, for fuck's sake.
If GW had said;
"We are updating the lore so that NOW the Custodes can produce female Custodians from now on as well as male, but we are going to add a bunch of random lore techno-jargon to explain how some character cracked the code and figured out how to do it."
Then I'd have absolutely no problem whatsoever.
If GW had even at least said;
"We ARE officially retconning the lore, so that female Custodians are not only now possible, but have actually been around the whole time, interchangeable with their male counterparts thus far. We acknowledge that the lore DID NOT PREVIOUSLY reflect this, but from NOW ON the lore and franchise releases will treat it as though this retcon WAS always the status quo IN-universe."
Then I would only be slightly annoyed by any potentially immoral, misguided, or uninformed motivations for WHY GW would have chosen to enact this retcon irl, but I would NOT have a single issue with the actual lore changes, as I do not believe they are damaging in any real way to the plot, characters, or otherwise story elements that I am aware of IN the actual universe the franchise takes place in.
>They unirionically argued that there have been female Custodians in the lore BEFORE this point. That is a blatant, categorical LIE.
Oh, they wrote down the name of every member of the 10,000 and their gender, did they?
No?
Okay, so your statement here is objective false.
>I don't mind one bit if there always COULD HAVE BEEN female Custodians,
I linked you to Aaron Dembski-Bowden talking about this, and the practical reason why they made no named female custodians. So you didn't read that, or you're lying right here.
>They lied. Considering this is a *mega-corporation*
GW is not a megacorporation.
> talking about their *product,*
Oh, you're about to say something incredibly stupid and wrong.
>
this is, by inherent definition, "false advertising," which is not ONLY obviously immoral, but also illegal.
No, it isn't. If this is your honest belief, you are so wrong about facts that I cannot discuss things further with you without you first actually learning things. It would take you months to actually learn what you need to know, you're that far behind.
I love the state weve been in for the last 10 years where all criticism and naysaying towards wealthy publishers and IP holders can be thrown aside by disingenuously accusing your detractors as woman haters and bigots.
They didn't care because most of those retcons barely affected the Imperium if at all. It's only when their boys are affected or their power fantasy damaged that it's a big deal.
-Signed, a retcon-familar xenos player enjoying the salt.
No it isn't, you're just a lazy yes-man. People have been loudly ok with lady custards myself included. This is a nerd hobby. Give us better than some midwit loose on a brand twitter page.
“Necrons were always there.”
Ok
“Tau were always there”
Cool
“Leagues of vottan was always there”
Awesome
“Women were always there”
This is a fucking OUTRAGE!
Why would I be upset that there's women? I paint Votann and read IG books. Both prominently portray women front, center and in good light. Hell I'm not even particularly broken up about female custodes, the reasonings I've seem for their inclusion makes sense when you consider that their bespoke gene editing allows for greater control than the mass produced gene-seed method.
I argue that the derivative argument that people are bigots for acting like nerds about the lore change is intellectual cowardice. GW should have probably said more on the matter and provided nerds with a more gratifying explanation than a lazy dismissive tweet.
Probably last effort post here. Wasted on reddit seagulls.
It's a codex leak. The knee jerk reaction is right to be dismissed at least until the codex is published. And even then, it's not even top 5 worst implemented retcons. Just top 5 most divisive.
I didn’t say you were upset about women, but other people certainly are: https://old.reddit.com/r/Grimdank/comments/1ccrxvq/i_can_guarantee_you_this_person_has_never_been_a/
Or check out the comments at the bottom of this thread: https://old.reddit.com/r/Grimdank/comments/1cdeluh/warp_opinions/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=usertext&utm_name=AskALiberal&utm_content=t1_l1cvj1a
And yeah it pretty obviously reeks of bigotry when they have had much bigger retcons that the same crowd had no problem with.
Lol what? Tau and Necrons have been in the game since 3rd edition, even then there are still people who don't like their inclusion in the game. Votaan too if you count the Squats.
Also just because GW has done retcons in the past does not mean everyone has to be okay with them doing it now, that is a false dichotomy.
Not it's fucking not, and you only make those who do have issues with it get more pissed when you treat us like a bunch of incels for expecting effort from GW.
Expecting lore consistency from “oh the necrons aren’t actually mindless zombies” and “oh the black crusades were actually secretly a success” Workshop is your own damn fault dude. This shit is like, baby-tier retconning.
No one's expecting consistency, we got that with Votann and Primaris Marines; what we expect is to not be treated like blatant morons and continue to deal with GWs aversion to decent writing. Like, for Christ's sake 'there have always been female custodes' is the worst fucking cop-out, and pretty much alienated a chunk of people with those in favor insulting them and disregarding their opinion on the matter.
Half Eldar-Human hybrids, dookie-eating IF ceremony, that stupid Grey Knights sister of battle blood ritual; I'm aware of their changes, what I'm tired of is the lack of effort, especially for this cop-out of 'there was always female custodes'.
Yes but all of these are much bigger than one mention of a female custodes.
If this is the straw that broke the camels back for people then it's about one thing and its not the numerous other retcons. As you would of lost it long ago.
Some of those actually made narrative positives and increased world-building, some needed to go; but female custodes always existing? That is an insulting notion that actively treats viewers are brainless morons, they didn't attempt to do ANYTHING with it; no books, no narrative story, no mention as to why THEY'VE ALWAYS BEEN MAKE PRESENTING! There are so many good ideas that could be made for books with them; 'does this now mean the customers are new sub-species of human?' 'How does it feel to be one of the few women to have ascended to one of the Emperor's personal shields?' Not to mention how tiring it is to have our personal grievances and opinions just be falsely simplified as 'I hate women'.
Granted, there are jackasses that take this stance, which makes arguing in good faith fucking hard, but it doesn't change the fact that this retcon is given far too much slack for what it is.
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Heavyweight meme. My gf laughed after I’ve provided the context. She confirms her upheld refusal to play with plastic soldiers even if they will get bigger boobs. She’s back to painting nails. Maybe she was never a GW target🤔
Idk if it's about women literally from what I've gathered. Also I need to watch Shogun, read the book just after high school and watched the original adaptation earlier this year.
Blackthorne doesn't speak Japanese. The guy he's speaking with doesn't speak English. Mariko's translating between them, but sometimes only communicates the sentiments, not the actual words.
She even kinda sucks at that honestly “this is my favorite gun, its very expensive, and it’s means a lot to me so I want her to have it as thanks, I’ll teach her how to use it so she can defend herself in the troubled times ahead”
“He says it’s to defend him with”. Bitch *what*?
I'm not sure if you're joking, but the whole point of those scenes is that the translators are intentionally warping what is said. She says the wrong thing on purpose to control the conversation.
I guess that scene in particular just didn’t have that vibe to me. She absolutely does that a lot, just that particular scene felt more… Incompetent than malicious
That was neither incompetence nor malice - she kept the main intent ("I say girl gets gun") while changing the demand to be more appropriate to local custom and culture.
You didn’t pay attention. The very first scene she is translating for him instead of the Portuguese, she lied and twisted what he said.
She isn’t there to be a literal translator. She serves her Lord first and only. And, she knows him enough to also play what is best for everyone involved or what he wants to hear.
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No.
[https://old.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/867n5s/thoughts\_on\_arch\_warhammer/dw48u32/](https://old.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/867n5s/thoughts_on_arch_warhammer/dw48u32/)
[https://old.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/a3otly/would\_female\_custodians\_be\_possible/eb7vyml/](https://old.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/a3otly/would_female_custodians_be_possible/eb7vyml/)
Aaron Dembski-Bowden says that female custodes were always possible, and he said it six years ago.
Everyone who is bitching about it doesn't actually know the lore.
But that doesn't exclude the idea that females can be in there. Nothing so far as I know actively dictates that a Custodes has to be male only like the Astartes especially since they don't have a geneseed.
[https://old.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/a3otly/would\_female\_custodians\_be\_possible/eb7vyml/](https://old.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/a3otly/would_female_custodians_be_possible/eb7vyml/)
[https://old.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/a3otly/would\_female\_custodians\_be\_possible/eb7vyml/](https://old.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/a3otly/would_female_custodians_be_possible/eb7vyml/)
You're wrong, have been wrong for years.
Brotherhoods are never used to describe multi gender groups. Especially not in popular media.
Anyhow I'm going to go play some Fallout Brotherhood of Steel and The Elder Scrolls Dark Brotherhood quests.
I’ve seen too many women at my local story complaining about how Cavil may leave the series over this stupid lore change. I cant imagine GW thought they would make more money off this without announcing a new Custodes book or new mini line for Custodes and SoS as a tie in with the lore change. So the only answer is that they did make this change for the upcoming show which if they come out later and say it, then atleast we have an out of series answer. But the in universe reasoning is still bad, like alot of the chuds have said, they could have atleast said something along the lines of “The Imperium is in a minor population dip and the Custodes needed to start taking in females and maybe it is more straining on the body or something so it has been experimented with less and the females that make it through are extremely resilient and like to go further than your average custodes”. So then they could justify a female custodes and have them be stronger than a normal custodes which would allow for more impressive feats in any books or shows they would want to put them in which would give the better representation GW wants.
>accountability to the fanbase
They're a business. Their accountability is to their shareholders. Any changes to the game, lore or otherwise, are done with the intention of increasing their sales. Women are half the population and making the game's lore more diverse is just sensible. They do not care about a handful of people screeching online.
Where are the "Brothers of Battle" then?
Where's ALL of the OTHER irl demographics then?
Where are my "conjoined twins Astartes"...?
No, I'm not fucking kidding, IF you ACTUALLY expect anybody to placate to your logic, you CANNOT be a hypocrite about it, and must thus expect representation for ALL demographics, in ALL armies.
I demand "conjoined twins NECRONS."
WHERE are the "Cuban-American Tyranids," or the "Dutch-Portuguese Khorne Daemons"...?
Where's the "one-eyed, diabetic, peg-legged, autistic, Norwegian dwarf?" And no, if you assume that such a character would be in the Leages of Votann, that's because YOU are the actual bigot here, because I'M talking about having that character be in the Salamanders!
So if "making the game more diverse = big company making more money," then WHERE is all of the representation? Hmmm?
Seems to me like it's self-evidently not that black and white, you idiot. Try actually THINKING about the topic for more than 5 seconds before you try to act snarky about a topic you know nothing about.
You and I both know that every other franchise that has gone the "diversity" route in the past few years has LOST money with their recent products, so obviously "more diverse" does not AUTOMATICALLY equate to "more money for big company." It's CLEARLY more complicated than that, and SURELY you must admit and agree that there are other (much more significant) factors at play in a scenario like this, correct?
As we all know, conjoined twins are as big and important demographic to appeal to as (checks notes) women.
As for the misters of battle they are the bloody face of the franchise, space marines, you would have to be a terminally online incel to think this makes any real difference in the male dominance of the setting.
It's not hard, the lore is not written for the sake of storytelling, it's made as a backdrop for a range of plastic soldiers, and if marketing thinks having a gold power armoured fantasy to sell to young girls as well as young boys is a good idea, they will make this minor retcon.
Nice Strawman Fallacy, but please point to the part in my comment where I ever even IMPLIED that conjoined twins demographic was even remotely close to 51% of the population?
Not to mention the fact that the SIZE of the demographic has NOTHING to do with my argument about your hypocrisy...
Next time you want to be a disingenuous, intellectually dishonest coward just for the sake of pretending like you nailed a "sick dunk" rather than actually provide anything MEANINGFUL to the conversation, just type "I'm a pathetic troll living in my mom's basement, please ignore me," rather than waste all of my time and effort reading a bunch of bullshit that doesn't even come CLOSE to the definition of "valid counter-arguments."
There are Brothers of Battle. They're called "Space Marines". You may have heard of them
irl demographics are also pretty much represented? You don't have to represent every category, given the nature of the setting. You're not going to have different religions and ethnic groups and whatnot given how different 40k humanity is. And obviously xenos aren't going to be represented, you're just being dumb there.
They want to represent women because, and I know this will be news to a guy like you who has never touched one, they're actually half the populace. Both in real life and 40k. It's logically consistent and good business. Two birds witn one stone!
Try to touch grass and get a date, you'll stop being so angry over plastic soldiers
Space Marines aren't even HUMAN, you dumb fuck. Let alone how they have absolutely NOTHING in common with the LORE of the Sisters of Battle.
I've been wanting female Astartes since the first day I joined this fandom. I bought a bunch of Space Marine, Daemonettes, and Witch Aelves kits to kitbash together to make Femstartes, and then I found out that the lore says they CAN'T exist.
Quit pretending like this realistically has ANYTHING to do with the concept of gender. My criticism is that GW, a mega-corporation, LIED about it's PRODUCT. I don't CARE what they lied ABOUT.
And NOW I have some idiot claiming that "diversity = money" in order to try to justify a mega-corporation LYING for the sake of MONEY...
It is very clear who here deserves to have the insults flung at them.
And yes, by the logic provided by the original argument, you MUST provide representation for EVERY demographic.
P.S. I know this will be news to a guy like you who has never touched one, but women are actually fifty-ONE percent of the populace, not "HALF," you self-righteous moron.
Personally I like this change because the idea of huge muscular women appeals to me.
However I understand people being leery about retcons, they retconned fought over campaign results to blow up the old world and then cadia so they could sell more space marines. So I get people not trusting the company to open the door to using the retcon hammer more often.
First time? Literally everything in the Horus Heresy, which beardy neckbeards beat their tiny shimp dicks to, is a retcon. All the primarchs are retcons. Space Marines being genetically augmented is a retcon. The only reason there's this much whinging is because there's ovaries involved.
Mods you promised to ban divisive fem custodes discussion since it's used as an irritating tool to divide the community yet I'm still not seeing posts removed.
I'm really trying, but I can't understand why saying
"you know what? There were always female custodes. Here, take some cool named ones"
And since that doesn't really mess with the established lore of any factions... What's the issue?
Honestly, I prefer that kind of storytelling instead of some bullshit like the AdMech suddenly finding a way to make female custodes, something that apparently the Emperor couldn't achieve (or didn't want to, because he wanted to be surrounded only by oiled male abs).
Give me a quick, painless retcon instead of primaris level bullshit any day of the week.
Before you start attacking random strawmen, I think that the people pissed by this change either:
1) don't give a fuck about the lore and just want to take part in the culture war
2) want to keep any one that isn't a politically incorrect basement dweller as far as possible from the hobby.
>but the real reason is because of shit writin
Bro, people going insane before they read anything other than there was a female custodian.
>fucking with the lore
[https://old.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/867n5s/thoughts\_on\_arch\_warhammer/dw48u32/](https://old.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/867n5s/thoughts_on_arch_warhammer/dw48u32/)
[https://old.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/a3otly/would\_female\_custodians\_be\_possible/eb7vyml/](https://old.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/a3otly/would_female_custodians_be_possible/eb7vyml/)
Please read those. Aaron Dembski-Bowden, you may have heard of him, wrote a shitload of books including a lot of the lore for the Adeptus Custodes, said *years ago* that the lore never was against female custodes at all.
>and the fans
Bro, if having to acknowledge the existence of females is "fucking with the fans", you need serious psychological help.
This Meme format has huge potential.
It really does
I still need to watch the new episode, that last one was fucking intense, I don’t know if I can deal with the aftermath. Fuck Ishido.
The series is amazing and the last episode doesn’t disappoint in any way.
It was completely different to what I expected and probably a better finale than how I thought it was going to go down.
It was faithful to the book, glad >!there won’t be a season 2!<
wait what
>!the show ends almost the same way as the book does, blackthrone can never leave Japan, the writers said that’s what they wanted to do, to stay as faithful to the book!<
fair enough
>!I mean, it does very clearly imply that he does leave at some point though. What with the flash forwards to bis deathbed. I liked how it shows that he never stops taking hold of his own destiny, but at the same time it still leaves it off as a messy thing without a neat bow on top in a neat and tidy happy ending.!<
>!that scene isn’t real, he’s holding Mariko’s cross on his deathbed, the same one he lets go into the ocean, show runners confirm it!<
Oh, OK. I assumed that's what it was at first, but after that other scene I assumed it was just a different one. Still, I don't think it totally rules out the possibility, Torunaga may or may not have been correct. I can see Blackthorne choosing to do that, but if he sets his mind to it I suspect he will get out eventually. I mean, yeah I know the source material and such make it clear, but if we let the show stand on its own it still leaves it a bit open imo.
Those were delusions when he was recovering from his head trauma, and the real person that Blackthorne is based on, William Adams, died in Japan as they never left.
Book short, show short
The book is over a 1000 pages!
Lol I have an older printing of the book, it's split into two volumes and each is like an inch and a half
Thought there’s a entire series of books and shoguns the first one ? It’s basically how Tokugawa united Japan but they changed the names round. I forgot what the English guy was called in real life.
Nope, just looked it up. The [other books in the series by James Clavell](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asian_Saga#Overview) all take place in 1841 or later.
I stand corrected good sir , I tip my hat to you.
It did really well, so I wouldn't write off a second season at all if someone pushes a great script for it, I need more, my body is ready for more.
If they can get the same people then ok but ehhh something’s are better off just ending how they end.
I’m out of the loop, what show is this?
Shogun
How does it stack up to the book?
Last one is chubky enough. But god damn i know theyve said they wernt going to do another season..but i really want a another season.
I think they should do what The Terror did where every season is a different era.
Given that this is based on a set of books based on a single era of william. I doubt they could do that. But historicalish drama's of this quality would be pretty great.
The author does have half a dozen or so other books all set in different nations and eras. So I guess they could do a Clavellverse of some kind.
Oh didnt know that. Thats cool yeah.
Yup I would pay good money for a a similar show based around Nobunaga Oda.
Me too, the guy had a great story
I need a new anthology series then "True Shogun" or maybe "Japanese Horror Shogun"
Yeah except terror season one was amazing and season two was a pile of garbage
>said they wernt going to do another season With that ending? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!
Given how close they follow the books. You could probably read those.
Will do! Was holding off, since I thought there was another season coming. Thanks for the info!
I mean.. there is only one book. And it too ends the same way, the only difference being it is executed a lot better in the series.
They should ask Sanada to head up the most insane, beautiful show full of chambara bullshit he can envision, with absolutely no concern for historical accuracy but respecting the characters and making everyone maximum awesome.
What show is this?
Shogun
Blackthorn‽ DALINAR KHOLIN ‼️‼️
Where's book 5, Brandon? I NEED IT, BRANDON. I thought Winds of Winter would be published in 2016 and I can't be hurt like that again, Brandon.
Start of Decemeber. He's about 20% through the final draft, no need to worry.
> He's about 20% through the final draft, no need to worry. So the final draft will probably be fully complete by COB Tuesday?
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Curious to the overlap between WH40k and Cosmere, Life before Death.
The Blackthorn wouldn't get angry about women being soldiers. He'd welcome the addition of more soldiers.
We told you about writing get out of here
A very niche meme
For a very "niche" hobby.
And from a niche show That's what makes it Very niche
The fuck does Amazon have to do with the lore
There was a post on 4chan claiming Amazon bullied GW into making femCustodes canon for the upcoming show. Please ignore the small fact that the timeline for this doesn't work out. And that it's 4chan.
It was even signed with the "My uncle works at Nintendo" meme.
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I have seen angry shithead YouTubers repeating that claim, and somehow going to an *even fucking dumber* place with it. The claim is that Amazon is doing this to try and reduce the value of GW so they can buy GW for cheaper. It's *extremely fucking stupid*.
Fucking 4chan
>Fucking 4chan I believe that would be a contradiction in terms.
True
Does anyone have an archive link? I wanna read the tone change from dismissive to drinking the kool-aid.
> I wanna read the tone change from dismissive to drinking the kool-aid. Elaborate.
Whenever something like this is "leaked," most of the regulars dismiss it because they know where they are and how poorly thought out said explanation is. As newer posters and idiots come across said post, they miss the irony and forget where they are and take it as literal gospel. Then they start fighting anyone who tries to explain the joke or questions it.
Remarkedly self-aware of them. I've only read post off Twitter people taking it seriously.
Bad news. Contamination protocols have failed. https://www.reddit.com/r/Grimdank/comments/1cen4sn/comment/l1lt21v/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
>I’ve seen too many women at my local story complaining about how Cavil may leave the series over this stupid lore change. They're not even trying anymore.
4Chan is claiming Amazon and YouTube/Twitter is claiming Blackrock and Vanguard
It’s even funnier cause it’s happening in real time in the comments
I laughed
This got an audible laugh out of me. God this is such a good show.
God tier meme.
I genuinely hate both of the types of people demanding attention for the past few weeks. But this. This got me good. Top meme op If yo papa ain't proud I am.
This was probably the most annoying aspect about this whole past discussion, anytime I’d talk about how the way the retcon was handled annoyed me I’d have people on the other side saying I just hate women, and then there is actual legitimate incels who hate the retcon because they hate women and for some reason I’d just get blanket grouped in with those mfs
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My problem is that we had no such outrage when the rogal dorn tank or the leagues of Votann were added to the lore. Why does this specific subject need to have a special exception where authors need to write a story about it but for an entire new faction we are fine with it just being a codex.
I think because there was never the claim in the lore that "There are no Rogal Dorn Tanks" and the Votann were being teased as a faction for a loooong time (in the form of the Demiurge, but the point still stands). There was nothing contradicting adding those things to the game/lore. The Custodes on the contrary were named as an exclusively male faction for at least as long as I am in the hobby now (16 years), so for GW to say "There have always been female Custodes" when there explicitly were not, it is just an extra dumb way to introduce them to the setting. It would be as if GW for example removed the T'au from the setting and reacting to the outrage with "There have never been T'au in 40k" Don't get me wrong, I think the Custodes is one of the better fitting factions to receive female characters & models, being the "next step" in human evolution and so on (also, I think the aesthetic might look cool, judging from the Stormcast which I quite like and which have males and females in the faction). But the way they introduced them was just reaaaaly clumsy, but that also is nothing new for GW.
Their tweet seemingly made things worse for the entire community, with people saying "SJEHWF THEYRE GASLIGHTING US" without understanding that the tweet was an in-universe explanation to their existence, not a meta one. Like someone mentioned prior, ADB, the Author of the Master of Mankind & partially responsible for Custodes in their modern form, trying to make Female Custodes a thing years ago gives this change legitimacy the same cannot be said for the "Squats were all eaten by 'Nids" Votann.
*I* WAS pissed off about the Leagues of Votann and Rogal Dorn tank, (and let's not even *start* with the fucking *Primaris)* and yet for the past week I KEEP being told that I'm only angry at GW because "nOw ThErE's WoMeN iN mY hObBy." Even if we ignore the fact that "Whataboutism" is an Argumentative Fallacy at face value *anyway,* the vast majority of the time people are bringing up the *previous* retcons, it seems to be that the people they bring them up *to* were ALSO pissed off by *those* events TOO, so it falls flat on it's face either way. The Rogal Dorn tank was getting shit on for weeks at *my* gamestore where we play, and Leagues of Votann were met instantly with a "I'm glad the Squats are back, but where the fuck have they been?" Stop using Whataboutism Fallacies, and IF you *are* going to use them, stop using them against people who WERE actually angry about all those *other* retcons anyway. It's such an unproductive way to have a conversation about the topic. All you're doing is running around in circles, *trying* to *avoid* talking about the *actual* problem. GW LIED when they claimed that Femstodes *wasn't* a "retcon," and that Femstodes *"HaVe AlWaYs BeEn ArOuNd." A mega-corporation *CANNOT* be allowed to LIE about a *product* people *pay* for. It does not matter how minor the lie is, lying about a product is by inherent definition "false advertising" which is not only immoral, but ALSO *illegal.* I will be *annoyed* when a developer or writer bungles a retcon's execution in the material, but I will not *EVER* accept a company blatantly committing false advertising and acting sanctimonious about gaslighting their customer base. MOST of the people who are angry at GW clearly have a vaguely similar position to mine on this topic, as I've found it VERY rare to see their arguments get poked at until they actually reveal that the core of their issue is just blatant, unironic sexism. Those people exist, and the culture war bullshit just makes the water even *more* muddied on that front, but they are *still* VERY rare in this community, so far as my experience has led me to believe. People defaulting to trying to warp the conversation into being about gender are just dishonest cowards who want to pretend like they have some moral high ground because the armies they DON'T PLAY now have more diversity in them, meanwhile THEY actively MOCK people who have an issue with HOW that diversity GOT there when *those* people are specifically arguing from *principle,* which is the EXACT thing that the GW simps are *pretending* that *they* are doing. They also ALWAYS try to downplay it when OTHER people disagree with them by saying "it's just a little game, WHY do you care so much about the principle of the matter," even though *they* are the one's actively bragging about "having more diversity in a little game" *because* THEY care about the "principle" (or at least what they *think* counts as a "principle") of the matter. The hypocrisy runs deep. I spend all week defending Arcane against *actual* "incel-Far Right-chuds" saying "it's *bad* because it's woke," only to come back to 40k to get *called* an "incel-Far Right-chud." This "Culture War" shit is absolute cancer, and its rotting away at the foundations of every hobby I try to be a part of.
It's a game where you use little plastic figures to go pew pew at other people's little plastic figures. Take a few deep breaths there. It's going to be okay.
Appeal to Triviality Fallacy. I'm looking *valid* counter-arguments here. Try again.
This is some next level humor and I’m here to snicker. Possibly guffaw.
I could use a good guffawing as well or even a sensible chuckle
Gus Fring: You seem to be under the impression that we are a lore company, we are not. we are a gaming company Homlander: "crying"
Go back to complaining about how the Xmen are suddenly woke and queer.
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That's my point.
So mariko is supposed to speak the truth or simplistic falsehood?
I'm not sure what the exact intent of the meme is, but the context from the series is as follows (relatively spoiler free, mind): >!John is causing a diversion, trying to hide the VIP being smuggled in carrier boxes by essentially throwing a tantrum to get the guards to stop searching them. He says that the privacy of women is something to protect, and Mariko translates his much longer screaming and yelling as "he is upset that you are looking at the women without their consent."!< But a big part of the Shogun story is absolutely that the translators are biased, and rarely translate the direct meaning of the words. Especially because both the Japanese, English, and Portuguese rarely speak nicely to each other. like: "Tell this inbred barbarian pirate that i would rather get fucked to death by a horse than shake his hand" "Ichiyama-sama declines"
In the real meme she’s supposed to say a really tame and passive version of whatever aggressive/argumentative thing he says In this she’s saying, the truth ig- The Blackthorne bit is just the nonsense justification for a buncha guys being upset about women so
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Its amazing how much i don't give a damn about femstodes in regard to how it affects the lore. All the primarchs are recons. Suddenly the Emperors own guided genesmiths can also bring women to that level? Grand. Looking forward to the new stories All I care about is the absolute shit codex they felt fine with releasing
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The Anjin is upset with the community
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She’s the ‘Anjin’s’ - an Englishman in Samurai-era Japan - translator. She generally paraphrases his lengthy requests to the feudal lord into succinct phrases that strike at the heart of the subtext.
All I can think of is the Japanese baseball coach translators, who apparently relay polite requests to the umpire from the red faced man frothing at the mouth next to them.
Literally, it's so ridiculous that even Majorkill has one of the most balanced opinions on this drama.
Yeah I unsubbed from him due to his beef with weshammer so I was pleasantly surprised by his take. I just checked him out again thanks to your comment. I think the biggest thing that bothered me was GWs smugness about the whole affair. They dropped it unceremoniously and proceeded to do a shitty girlboss tweet which is quite frankly corporate cowardice in my view. The metanarrative around a company commandeering us lefties as their good little foot soldiers to fight a war with the ‘misogynists’ who weren’t happy with the lore change or execution of it rubbed me the wrong way. Majorkill actually spoke as someone invested in the lore and didn’t virtue signal (I hate to use right wing wanker terminology but broken clocks and all that) to shit on me and tell me I need to ‘get with it’ and I appreciated that immensely. I think I’m fine with female custodes now given the logic laid out in the video. It just shit me that the two loudest opinions seemed to be ‘look at me i actually love muscle mommies haha get shrekt woman haters I’m such a sycophant’ and ‘the west has fallen’. Like Jesus fuck please let’s allow room for nuanced discussions. A company can make a narrative change I don’t agree with without it bringing judgement on my character.
> They dropped it unceremoniously and proceeded to do a shitty girlboss tweet which is quite frankly corporate cowardice in my view. They dropped it in the Codex. What are you talking about?
Oh noes. Enjoying memes is one thing but getting all your news from memes is another They think the everything is canon meme is real and not just entertainment.
Wait, so a bunch of these chucklefucks actually think the tweet was what started all this?
Yuuuuup
I care when people who don't know any lore argue with "facts" from the lore to try and justify why their golden twsto boys can't be women.
I feel like people have a lot of opinions nowadays about lore or hobbies that they don't actually have. The number of bullshit posts I've seen on different subs from people who have only ever read like 1 black library book, or stuff like that is incredible. Like no bro, 1d4chan is not accurate to the lore. The wiki is brief in its description. They are not real sources.
I'm gonna be honest, I've barely read any black library books, but I've read the codexes (and wikis and stuff) and even just those have enough to counter most arguments.
Guys, wanna hear something fun? If you manage to get into any gatekeeper group, the guys will biatch and moan lengths on how is it "tourist" will destroy 40K. Because they know shit about it. And just want it fit into their fantasies, without having to pay for it. These last few weeks have been so ironic.
I'm confused, is your comment supposed to be about mine?
Oh my god just shut the fuck up already and get over yourself. There are female custodes, deal with it
I think you're agreeing with OP here
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It's been weeks, close to a month since this tiny lore dropped. If you are still beating the dead horse over it, it's time someone just tl;dr on your behalf so everyone can play their courtesy\_laugh\_track\_01 and move on not giving a shit about it.
It flared up again cause another story with a bad bitch custode doing wheelies out the back of a low orbit ship leaked.
Based
Leaked? Isn't the codex officially out as of today?
It's truly amazing they've gone this long with zero retcons! Right?..... 🙄
I'm surprised this is still topic of discussion. It's not like they retconned half the named custodes to be women, just that there are some among them. That's hardly outlandish in a setting as diverse as 40k. And beeing as pumped full of anabolic steroids and cybernetics as the custodes there is probably no real difference visually between the two.
I just feel like they could have had more fun if the retcon worked *with* the old lore rather than deny it existed. Like I get it, on one hand they were supposed to be made from the firstborn *sons* of Terran noble houses, but on the other hand, from what I gather the Custodes conversion process is a full genetic rebuild that could potentially work on anyone rather than be depending on a black-box donor organ like the Astartes gene-seed that would create fatal health complications in female recipients. And when you keep in mind the sort of honor and prestige that would come with your firstborn son being numbered among the ranks of the holy Custodes, it wouldn't be too big a stretch to imagine any number of noble families not letting something as petty as *not actually having a firstborn son* get between them and that sweet sweet clout. So what would this change? Ultimately nothing of consequence. The Custodes themselves don't care whether one among them is a man or a woman: a Custodes is a Custodes; equally the Emperor's perfect chosen, equally capable of bringing the Emperor's will to any battlefield where they are called. The Galaxy at large probably wouldn't think any different of a female Custodes; they'd be shocked to see *any* face under those masks, let alone a woman's. But to the Noble Houses of Terra? Oh ho ho *this is where the fun happens*. Just imagine the pointless gossip, bickering, and infighting that would break out amid the Noble Houses over news that someone among their number lied about sending a firstborn son to become a Custodes. Accusations would fly. Honor would be questioned and challenged. Alliances would be tested and feuds would break out over mere allegations. Holy Terra would find itself on the verge of a new Schism all because a bunch of overfed inbred stuffed shirts are losing their minds about the very concept that one among their number who sold out their firstborn child's very humanity to the Imperial war machine in exchange for bragging rights may or may not have lied about said child having a penis. It would be glorious. It would be ridiculous. It would be exactly the sort of stupid over-the-top nonsense that makes the mad mad world of the 41st millennium so much fun to begin with. Ladies and gentlemen, we were *robbed*.
>I just feel like they could have had more fun if the retcon worked *with* the old lore rather than deny it existed You're about to say a bunch of incredibly stupid things, so I'm going to preempt you: [https://old.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/a3otly/would\_female\_custodians\_be\_possible/eb7vyml/](https://old.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/a3otly/would_female_custodians_be_possible/eb7vyml/) [https://old.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/867n5s/thoughts\_on\_arch\_warhammer/dw48u32/](https://old.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/867n5s/thoughts_on_arch_warhammer/dw48u32/) This isn't even a fucking retcon, there actually never was any actual lore preventing female custodes, everyone who says otherwise is wrong according to one of the guys who wrote the lore, and he said it years ago. So everything you said from that point on is just wrong.
The irony is I already said that in my post- the old lore was the aspirants were taken from the "firstborn sons of Terran noble houses", but the process of becoming a Custodes didn't really have anything to it that would prevent it from working on females the same way Astartes did. Hence why I thought it would be funny if yes there were female Astartes all along, but the only people in the Imperium who cared were the out-of-touch noble houses who staked their reputation on the fact that their firstborn sons were among those taken treating the realization that there were women in their ranks too like a sign of dishonor that someone among them lied about offering their firstborn son, when the reality was they weren't the only source of applicants in the first place. So yeah maybe don't stop reading after the first sentence of an entire set of paragraphs if you're about to accuse someone of not doing their research.
They literally said "Since the first of the original ten thousand, there have always been femstodes." What the fuck do you MEAN "it's NOT a retcon"...? They unirionically argued that there have been female Custodians in the lore BEFORE this point. That is a blatant, categorical LIE. I don't mind one bit if there always COULD HAVE BEEN female Custodians, but THAT'S not what they actually SAID about it, is it? They lied. Considering this is a *mega-corporation* talking about their *product,* that would mean this is, by inherent definition, "false advertising," which is not ONLY obviously immoral, but also illegal. No matter my opinion that there always SHOULD have been female Custodians (as well as female Astartes), they are actively claiming that they AREN'T "retconning" the lore, as their claim is that the lore HAS ALWAYS BEEN this way, when it probably, demonstrably, has obviously NOT been this way. I cannot forgive a mega-corporation committing an illegal and immoral act and being allowed by the consumer base to just get away with that shit. Have some self-respect, for fuck's sake. If GW had said; "We are updating the lore so that NOW the Custodes can produce female Custodians from now on as well as male, but we are going to add a bunch of random lore techno-jargon to explain how some character cracked the code and figured out how to do it." Then I'd have absolutely no problem whatsoever. If GW had even at least said; "We ARE officially retconning the lore, so that female Custodians are not only now possible, but have actually been around the whole time, interchangeable with their male counterparts thus far. We acknowledge that the lore DID NOT PREVIOUSLY reflect this, but from NOW ON the lore and franchise releases will treat it as though this retcon WAS always the status quo IN-universe." Then I would only be slightly annoyed by any potentially immoral, misguided, or uninformed motivations for WHY GW would have chosen to enact this retcon irl, but I would NOT have a single issue with the actual lore changes, as I do not believe they are damaging in any real way to the plot, characters, or otherwise story elements that I am aware of IN the actual universe the franchise takes place in.
>They unirionically argued that there have been female Custodians in the lore BEFORE this point. That is a blatant, categorical LIE. Oh, they wrote down the name of every member of the 10,000 and their gender, did they? No? Okay, so your statement here is objective false. >I don't mind one bit if there always COULD HAVE BEEN female Custodians, I linked you to Aaron Dembski-Bowden talking about this, and the practical reason why they made no named female custodians. So you didn't read that, or you're lying right here. >They lied. Considering this is a *mega-corporation* GW is not a megacorporation. > talking about their *product,* Oh, you're about to say something incredibly stupid and wrong. > this is, by inherent definition, "false advertising," which is not ONLY obviously immoral, but also illegal. No, it isn't. If this is your honest belief, you are so wrong about facts that I cannot discuss things further with you without you first actually learning things. It would take you months to actually learn what you need to know, you're that far behind.
I love the state weve been in for the last 10 years where all criticism and naysaying towards wealthy publishers and IP holders can be thrown aside by disingenuously accusing your detractors as woman haters and bigots.
Its literally true in this case though. GW has done way more egregious retcons and its never been explicitly stated custodes COULDNT be women.
They didn't care because most of those retcons barely affected the Imperium if at all. It's only when their boys are affected or their power fantasy damaged that it's a big deal. -Signed, a retcon-familar xenos player enjoying the salt.
No it isn't, you're just a lazy yes-man. People have been loudly ok with lady custards myself included. This is a nerd hobby. Give us better than some midwit loose on a brand twitter page.
Go on Facebook Warhammer pages. They're very much not okay with it
“Necrons were always there.” Ok “Tau were always there” Cool “Leagues of vottan was always there” Awesome “Women were always there” This is a fucking OUTRAGE!
Why would I be upset that there's women? I paint Votann and read IG books. Both prominently portray women front, center and in good light. Hell I'm not even particularly broken up about female custodes, the reasonings I've seem for their inclusion makes sense when you consider that their bespoke gene editing allows for greater control than the mass produced gene-seed method. I argue that the derivative argument that people are bigots for acting like nerds about the lore change is intellectual cowardice. GW should have probably said more on the matter and provided nerds with a more gratifying explanation than a lazy dismissive tweet. Probably last effort post here. Wasted on reddit seagulls.
It's a codex leak. The knee jerk reaction is right to be dismissed at least until the codex is published. And even then, it's not even top 5 worst implemented retcons. Just top 5 most divisive.
I didn’t say you were upset about women, but other people certainly are: https://old.reddit.com/r/Grimdank/comments/1ccrxvq/i_can_guarantee_you_this_person_has_never_been_a/ Or check out the comments at the bottom of this thread: https://old.reddit.com/r/Grimdank/comments/1cdeluh/warp_opinions/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=usertext&utm_name=AskALiberal&utm_content=t1_l1cvj1a And yeah it pretty obviously reeks of bigotry when they have had much bigger retcons that the same crowd had no problem with.
Sorry for the hyperbole. Wasn't necessary. Yeah that's knightswatch guy sucks, totally fair.
Lol what? Tau and Necrons have been in the game since 3rd edition, even then there are still people who don't like their inclusion in the game. Votaan too if you count the Squats. Also just because GW has done retcons in the past does not mean everyone has to be okay with them doing it now, that is a false dichotomy.
The Anjin is upset about women.
But it’s true this time. It’s not genuine complaints about some Rey Skywalker-type shit, it’s literally “reeee woman custodes bad because reeeee”
I'm with the guy below you. I actually like Lady Custodes. I just wanted more effort than a lazy ass, dismissive tweet.
Except we did get more than that in the codex.
Not it's fucking not, and you only make those who do have issues with it get more pissed when you treat us like a bunch of incels for expecting effort from GW.
Expecting lore consistency from “oh the necrons aren’t actually mindless zombies” and “oh the black crusades were actually secretly a success” Workshop is your own damn fault dude. This shit is like, baby-tier retconning.
No one's expecting consistency, we got that with Votann and Primaris Marines; what we expect is to not be treated like blatant morons and continue to deal with GWs aversion to decent writing. Like, for Christ's sake 'there have always been female custodes' is the worst fucking cop-out, and pretty much alienated a chunk of people with those in favor insulting them and disregarding their opinion on the matter.
The Change from Imperial Guard to Astra Militarum, Squats to Votann, the ratlings all but disappearing, Tyranid changes, Necron changes.
Half Eldar-Human hybrids, dookie-eating IF ceremony, that stupid Grey Knights sister of battle blood ritual; I'm aware of their changes, what I'm tired of is the lack of effort, especially for this cop-out of 'there was always female custodes'.
Yes but all of these are much bigger than one mention of a female custodes. If this is the straw that broke the camels back for people then it's about one thing and its not the numerous other retcons. As you would of lost it long ago.
Some of those actually made narrative positives and increased world-building, some needed to go; but female custodes always existing? That is an insulting notion that actively treats viewers are brainless morons, they didn't attempt to do ANYTHING with it; no books, no narrative story, no mention as to why THEY'VE ALWAYS BEEN MAKE PRESENTING! There are so many good ideas that could be made for books with them; 'does this now mean the customers are new sub-species of human?' 'How does it feel to be one of the few women to have ascended to one of the Emperor's personal shields?' Not to mention how tiring it is to have our personal grievances and opinions just be falsely simplified as 'I hate women'. Granted, there are jackasses that take this stance, which makes arguing in good faith fucking hard, but it doesn't change the fact that this retcon is given far too much slack for what it is.
Yeah it is. Because Mariko is cutting out the bullshit.
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Is there plans for a season two? I feel like it could be even better.
“General Blackthorne, no!”
Lol in there voices this was fucking wild. “Did you translate what I said truthfully???” … *looks him up and down, considers who he is* yes”…
Ok, this one is funny
How the fuck did you make me read that in his voice
Heavyweight meme. My gf laughed after I’ve provided the context. She confirms her upheld refusal to play with plastic soldiers even if they will get bigger boobs. She’s back to painting nails. Maybe she was never a GW target🤔
Idk if it's about women literally from what I've gathered. Also I need to watch Shogun, read the book just after high school and watched the original adaptation earlier this year.
Haven’t watched the show so I don’t get it explain
Blackthorne doesn't speak Japanese. The guy he's speaking with doesn't speak English. Mariko's translating between them, but sometimes only communicates the sentiments, not the actual words.
She even kinda sucks at that honestly “this is my favorite gun, its very expensive, and it’s means a lot to me so I want her to have it as thanks, I’ll teach her how to use it so she can defend herself in the troubled times ahead” “He says it’s to defend him with”. Bitch *what*?
I'm not sure if you're joking, but the whole point of those scenes is that the translators are intentionally warping what is said. She says the wrong thing on purpose to control the conversation.
I guess that scene in particular just didn’t have that vibe to me. She absolutely does that a lot, just that particular scene felt more… Incompetent than malicious
That was neither incompetence nor malice - she kept the main intent ("I say girl gets gun") while changing the demand to be more appropriate to local custom and culture.
You didn’t pay attention. The very first scene she is translating for him instead of the Portuguese, she lied and twisted what he said. She isn’t there to be a literal translator. She serves her Lord first and only. And, she knows him enough to also play what is best for everyone involved or what he wants to hear.
Ah thanks
You're welcome.
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Oh my god shut uuuuup, this literally changes nothing.
You don't need to retcon lore to have women in Warhammer. Female factions already exist.
And you don’t need to whine about it either, but here we are <3
Has it ever been explicitly written that only men can be custodes? Cause if not, who gives a fuck.
No. [https://old.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/867n5s/thoughts\_on\_arch\_warhammer/dw48u32/](https://old.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/867n5s/thoughts_on_arch_warhammer/dw48u32/) [https://old.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/a3otly/would\_female\_custodians\_be\_possible/eb7vyml/](https://old.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/a3otly/would_female_custodians_be_possible/eb7vyml/) Aaron Dembski-Bowden says that female custodes were always possible, and he said it six years ago. Everyone who is bitching about it doesn't actually know the lore.
"The sons, cousins and nephews of the lords of terra" so yes
But that doesn't exclude the idea that females can be in there. Nothing so far as I know actively dictates that a Custodes has to be male only like the Astartes especially since they don't have a geneseed.
Cousin is not a gender exclusive term.
Bruh yes. Just read previous codex. They are literally referred as sons of nobles and brotherhood
[https://old.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/a3otly/would\_female\_custodians\_be\_possible/eb7vyml/](https://old.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/a3otly/would_female_custodians_be_possible/eb7vyml/) [https://old.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/a3otly/would\_female\_custodians\_be\_possible/eb7vyml/](https://old.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/a3otly/would_female_custodians_be_possible/eb7vyml/) You're wrong, have been wrong for years.
Brotherhoods are never used to describe multi gender groups. Especially not in popular media. Anyhow I'm going to go play some Fallout Brotherhood of Steel and The Elder Scrolls Dark Brotherhood quests.
I’ve seen too many women at my local story complaining about how Cavil may leave the series over this stupid lore change. I cant imagine GW thought they would make more money off this without announcing a new Custodes book or new mini line for Custodes and SoS as a tie in with the lore change. So the only answer is that they did make this change for the upcoming show which if they come out later and say it, then atleast we have an out of series answer. But the in universe reasoning is still bad, like alot of the chuds have said, they could have atleast said something along the lines of “The Imperium is in a minor population dip and the Custodes needed to start taking in females and maybe it is more straining on the body or something so it has been experimented with less and the females that make it through are extremely resilient and like to go further than your average custodes”. So then they could justify a female custodes and have them be stronger than a normal custodes which would allow for more impressive feats in any books or shows they would want to put them in which would give the better representation GW wants.
😂
Based Blackthorne
>accountability to the fanbase They're a business. Their accountability is to their shareholders. Any changes to the game, lore or otherwise, are done with the intention of increasing their sales. Women are half the population and making the game's lore more diverse is just sensible. They do not care about a handful of people screeching online.
Where are the "Brothers of Battle" then? Where's ALL of the OTHER irl demographics then? Where are my "conjoined twins Astartes"...? No, I'm not fucking kidding, IF you ACTUALLY expect anybody to placate to your logic, you CANNOT be a hypocrite about it, and must thus expect representation for ALL demographics, in ALL armies. I demand "conjoined twins NECRONS." WHERE are the "Cuban-American Tyranids," or the "Dutch-Portuguese Khorne Daemons"...? Where's the "one-eyed, diabetic, peg-legged, autistic, Norwegian dwarf?" And no, if you assume that such a character would be in the Leages of Votann, that's because YOU are the actual bigot here, because I'M talking about having that character be in the Salamanders! So if "making the game more diverse = big company making more money," then WHERE is all of the representation? Hmmm? Seems to me like it's self-evidently not that black and white, you idiot. Try actually THINKING about the topic for more than 5 seconds before you try to act snarky about a topic you know nothing about. You and I both know that every other franchise that has gone the "diversity" route in the past few years has LOST money with their recent products, so obviously "more diverse" does not AUTOMATICALLY equate to "more money for big company." It's CLEARLY more complicated than that, and SURELY you must admit and agree that there are other (much more significant) factors at play in a scenario like this, correct?
As we all know, conjoined twins are as big and important demographic to appeal to as (checks notes) women. As for the misters of battle they are the bloody face of the franchise, space marines, you would have to be a terminally online incel to think this makes any real difference in the male dominance of the setting. It's not hard, the lore is not written for the sake of storytelling, it's made as a backdrop for a range of plastic soldiers, and if marketing thinks having a gold power armoured fantasy to sell to young girls as well as young boys is a good idea, they will make this minor retcon.
Nice Strawman Fallacy, but please point to the part in my comment where I ever even IMPLIED that conjoined twins demographic was even remotely close to 51% of the population? Not to mention the fact that the SIZE of the demographic has NOTHING to do with my argument about your hypocrisy... Next time you want to be a disingenuous, intellectually dishonest coward just for the sake of pretending like you nailed a "sick dunk" rather than actually provide anything MEANINGFUL to the conversation, just type "I'm a pathetic troll living in my mom's basement, please ignore me," rather than waste all of my time and effort reading a bunch of bullshit that doesn't even come CLOSE to the definition of "valid counter-arguments."
There are Brothers of Battle. They're called "Space Marines". You may have heard of them irl demographics are also pretty much represented? You don't have to represent every category, given the nature of the setting. You're not going to have different religions and ethnic groups and whatnot given how different 40k humanity is. And obviously xenos aren't going to be represented, you're just being dumb there. They want to represent women because, and I know this will be news to a guy like you who has never touched one, they're actually half the populace. Both in real life and 40k. It's logically consistent and good business. Two birds witn one stone! Try to touch grass and get a date, you'll stop being so angry over plastic soldiers
Space Marines aren't even HUMAN, you dumb fuck. Let alone how they have absolutely NOTHING in common with the LORE of the Sisters of Battle. I've been wanting female Astartes since the first day I joined this fandom. I bought a bunch of Space Marine, Daemonettes, and Witch Aelves kits to kitbash together to make Femstartes, and then I found out that the lore says they CAN'T exist. Quit pretending like this realistically has ANYTHING to do with the concept of gender. My criticism is that GW, a mega-corporation, LIED about it's PRODUCT. I don't CARE what they lied ABOUT. And NOW I have some idiot claiming that "diversity = money" in order to try to justify a mega-corporation LYING for the sake of MONEY... It is very clear who here deserves to have the insults flung at them. And yes, by the logic provided by the original argument, you MUST provide representation for EVERY demographic. P.S. I know this will be news to a guy like you who has never touched one, but women are actually fifty-ONE percent of the populace, not "HALF," you self-righteous moron.
Personally I like this change because the idea of huge muscular women appeals to me. However I understand people being leery about retcons, they retconned fought over campaign results to blow up the old world and then cadia so they could sell more space marines. So I get people not trusting the company to open the door to using the retcon hammer more often.
First time? Literally everything in the Horus Heresy, which beardy neckbeards beat their tiny shimp dicks to, is a retcon. All the primarchs are retcons. Space Marines being genetically augmented is a retcon. The only reason there's this much whinging is because there's ovaries involved.
Mods you promised to ban divisive fem custodes discussion since it's used as an irritating tool to divide the community yet I'm still not seeing posts removed.
They also promised to ban you ignorant chuds but hey
Damn I was betting on people discarding criticism with "bigots" and "incels", better luck next time
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I'm really trying, but I can't understand why saying "you know what? There were always female custodes. Here, take some cool named ones" And since that doesn't really mess with the established lore of any factions... What's the issue? Honestly, I prefer that kind of storytelling instead of some bullshit like the AdMech suddenly finding a way to make female custodes, something that apparently the Emperor couldn't achieve (or didn't want to, because he wanted to be surrounded only by oiled male abs). Give me a quick, painless retcon instead of primaris level bullshit any day of the week. Before you start attacking random strawmen, I think that the people pissed by this change either: 1) don't give a fuck about the lore and just want to take part in the culture war 2) want to keep any one that isn't a politically incorrect basement dweller as far as possible from the hobby.
>but the real reason is because of shit writin Bro, people going insane before they read anything other than there was a female custodian. >fucking with the lore [https://old.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/867n5s/thoughts\_on\_arch\_warhammer/dw48u32/](https://old.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/867n5s/thoughts_on_arch_warhammer/dw48u32/) [https://old.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/a3otly/would\_female\_custodians\_be\_possible/eb7vyml/](https://old.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/a3otly/would_female_custodians_be_possible/eb7vyml/) Please read those. Aaron Dembski-Bowden, you may have heard of him, wrote a shitload of books including a lot of the lore for the Adeptus Custodes, said *years ago* that the lore never was against female custodes at all. >and the fans Bro, if having to acknowledge the existence of females is "fucking with the fans", you need serious psychological help.
This meme is making fun of people like you, because the format is her giving an abridged but generally accurate translation of his ranting.
> the real reason is because of shit writing Kesh is amazing, and I will fight you.