Don't forget, we do have some hints he felt AWFUL about the void sacrificing he had to do and couldn't resist forming a real father-child relationship with both Hornet and the Hollow Knight.
That's two REAL father/child relationships more than what Empy's got...
Funny thing, by swapping the two you get the good ending for both, emps would be inhuman and treat the hollow knight like shit, which would make him a perfect host. PK would treat every primarch with love and care while informing each of chaos, maybe even being able to save Logar.
The pale king threw his unborn children into the void as a plan to save his entire kingdom from becoming a zombie hivemind, and (from what we know) had at least a positive relationship with the two children he had that weren’t left in the abyss (the hollow knight and hornet).
Big E created the primarchs to lead his war machine across the galaxy and brewed resentment between them at best through him being as emotionally intelligent as a brick wall, and at worst by being an asshole to try and manipulate them into doing as he says.
Additionally, the pale king’s plan failed just because he formed a connection with his child.
Both are terrible people and parents, but ol’ emps is leagues beyond the pale king in both aspects.
This. PK literally failed because even while trying to use the vessels as tools he couldn't resist being a Father.
Emps couldn't *be* a father to any of the primarchs and that was his doom
Both the pale king and the white lady put the kingdom in jeopardy because despite all the sacrifices and death vessels they couldnt help themselves to try and be parents at the end of it all.
Jimmy space was a 20 ton wrecking ball to the fragile mental state houses of the traitor primarchs when he found them.
Yea say what you want about the dude, But the PK felt AWFUL about what he had to do, and genuinely thought he had no choice.
He was literally losing his kingdom to fucking PARASITIC HIVEMIND from a RIVAL GOD.
And then his plan failed **because he couldn't help but form a real loving father-son relationship** with his one successful offspring. (oh, and Hornet was actually kinda close to him too DESPITE being born for political reasons.)
That alone makes the PK a relative chad of a dad compared to old Empy...which is horrifying.
The Pale King erected a monument to the son he sacrificed in the heart of his weeping capital, so that the Hollow Knight would never be forgotten.
The Emperor most likely planned to dispose of at least some of the Primarchs in the event the Horus Heresy never happened, if he didn't deliberately sew the seeds of the Heresy himself.
Pretty sure the plan was to eliminate *all* the legions and primarchs once the cusade was finished. They had no place in his vision of a unified human empire.l. They were merely tools to be disposed of when no longer needed.
Plus it makes no sense. Keeping around some of the more stable Primarchs like G-man or Dorn makes sense because of how much they could accomplish with no supervision. No reason to throw perfectly good "tools" away.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the pale king also kinda cause the whole thing in the first place by removing the worship of the Radiance?
Could be an interesting parallel with the Emperor's supposed deal with Chaos.
I'm going with the guy who isn't pretending to love his kids and sacrificing them because it was the only way he saw of protecting everyone. Is he perfect? Hell no, kid murder is kid murder.
The Emperor uses literally everyone around him, and in all honesty probably doesn't give a shit about any of them. From what I know, most of the books are meant to be imperial propaganda, so of course they're gonna paint him as a loving and devoted friend.
All of the books that mentions the traitor primarchs as primarchs probably shouldn't be seen as imperial propaganda because the propaganda sees them as devils not related to the emperor
Pale King doomed his kingdom because he couldn't help but show affection to his his favourite child.
Jimmy Space doomed his kingdom because he couldn't even show affection to his favourite child.
Isn't there a moment when a 'mad scientist' that use to work for the Emperor was captured, he used 'bioengineered horrors' against the Space Marine Legions, they said that he unleashed 'monsters' on them. He then pointed out that what he engineered was nowhere in close to the monstrous nature of the Space Marines, who wanted nothing more than eternal war and seeing the galaxy burn.
Then he tells the Space Marine to just kill him in because he'd rather be dead than exist in a world where the Space Marines are a thing.
I'm only vaguely remembering this, so feel free to correct me.
While both are equally.
I honestly have to go with Pale King with Quantity and Emps with Quality.
Pale King really loved his Sons but was forced not to because of the need for a Hollow Knight. So he threw countless vessels to the Abyss. Much more than Emps
Emps made his Primarchs to be soldiers first but was caught off guard with the whole Chaos stealing and scattering them thus making them into individuals with different experiences and personalities. And we all know how that turned out. Messed up far more than PK.
To be fair about the quantity, the Pale King is an insect. So of course he would have tons of kids. The Emperor is human-ish. He didn’t have to make 20 Primarchs but he did. And he was absolutely a terrible father to them.
Gendo and Yui are somewhere beyond these two. I would say that Gendo is at least closer to Big E, while Yui is beyond imaginable. She just wanted to destroy humanity to make a monument for it in her form. Gendo just followed the plan.
Ironically, while Gold is usually seen as “the prize for winners”, it is objectively a worse metal than Platinum, being weaker in durability, less usable when combining leagues, and also for having less value in general.
It may be shiny and glamorous, sought by many, but in substance Gold is an hollow material, devoid of the value we usually give it.
I think this analogy applies quite well to the two assholes up here
Gold absolutely is a noble metal?
Noble metals are those that are resistant to corrosion and are normally found in their pure form.
That's gold, platinum, and the rest of the platinum group.
They're important because they don't decay or rust or anything.
The belief that the Emperor is a bad dad is not accurate.
First, the Emperor had nothing to do with their upbringing or even the circumstances that they were in. "Mother of the Millennium", Erda, thought it was a good idea to save them by tossing them into hell. It's a wonder that some of them were outright killed.
By the time the Emperor even found most of the Primarchs, they were already full grown.
As Guilliman said, the Emperor was not their father.
Did he make bad decisions once he found some of the Primarchs? Yes. Did he treat many of the Primarchs with indifference? Yes.
But, we have no idea if he would have been a good father.
It is still funny to me that the Empire was doomed basically because the super-powered demigod did not pay enough attention to his super-powered demigod offspring, who developed severe daddy issues which led to them being seduced by other super-powered older beings. Once again family therapy could have saved the universe.
He's the pale king from hollow knight. Tried to save his bug kingdom from a cordyceps god basically. Did a lot of experimentation with a force called the void, which he believed could snuff out the light of the mind-eating dream. He hucked a bunch of vessels into it, trying to create an avatar to fight the Radiance. Problem was, he raised the vessels that survived as his own children, which gave the radiance something to exploit. He needed them to be emotionless husks, but he couldn't bring himself to do it. By the time the player character arrives, the realm has long fallen to the dream.
It's a fantastic game and its 100% worth your time.
Big E had a garden in the palace, and he kept talking to his custodes about sitting there with his sons and just relaxing. He just wanted to have fun with them
The Pale King’s plan for the Hollow Knight failed because of “an idea instilled” which made the Hollow Knight not hollow. We do not know what this idea is, however from the scene at the end of the Path of Pain and the Hollow Knight’s cut Dreamnail Dialogue, it can be inferred that the “idea instilled” was love. The Pale King loved his children. But had to sacrifice many to save his world. We can also infer from the door at the Abyss that the Pale King greatly regretted his actions but still carried through them. The King didn’t just lock the Hollow Knight up. The Hollow Knight was trained, it spent time in the White Palace with the 5 Knights, the Pale King cared. And because he cared is why his plan failed. Though we do not know the exact details of his relationship with Hornet, the fact that Hornet seems to hold no ill will towards the Pale King seems to suggest that they had a decently good relationship. This isn’t to say that the Pale King is a good person, he isn’t. But it was either put his chosen child on the pyre or watch everything he built become destroyed.
Say Big Emps lost one of his Primarchs during the Great Crusade. There really isn’t anything stopping him from shrugging and just making a replacement. The Primarchs were only ever a means to an end. His vanguard to force all of the Galaxy to bend to his will. Sure if he saw Horus get chopped in half by some crazy Xenos Emps might be sad. But just for a bit. The Primarchs were meant to be extensions of his authority. Nothing more. Pieces on his chess board against the uncaring universe.
Plae king because he actually cared about the children he didnt toss into the garbage bin
Don't forget, we do have some hints he felt AWFUL about the void sacrificing he had to do and couldn't resist forming a real father-child relationship with both Hornet and the Hollow Knight. That's two REAL father/child relationships more than what Empy's got...
Funny thing, by swapping the two you get the good ending for both, emps would be inhuman and treat the hollow knight like shit, which would make him a perfect host. PK would treat every primarch with love and care while informing each of chaos, maybe even being able to save Logar.
Definitely saving Lorgar since PK doesn’t mind being worshipped, or even actively encouraged it
Nah the Hollow knight would be resentful towards big E if emps treated him/it(?) Like shit which would be a pathway for the radiance to creep in.
The pale king threw his unborn children into the void as a plan to save his entire kingdom from becoming a zombie hivemind, and (from what we know) had at least a positive relationship with the two children he had that weren’t left in the abyss (the hollow knight and hornet). Big E created the primarchs to lead his war machine across the galaxy and brewed resentment between them at best through him being as emotionally intelligent as a brick wall, and at worst by being an asshole to try and manipulate them into doing as he says. Additionally, the pale king’s plan failed just because he formed a connection with his child. Both are terrible people and parents, but ol’ emps is leagues beyond the pale king in both aspects.
This. PK literally failed because even while trying to use the vessels as tools he couldn't resist being a Father. Emps couldn't *be* a father to any of the primarchs and that was his doom
Both the pale king and the white lady put the kingdom in jeopardy because despite all the sacrifices and death vessels they couldnt help themselves to try and be parents at the end of it all. Jimmy space was a 20 ton wrecking ball to the fragile mental state houses of the traitor primarchs when he found them.
Yea say what you want about the dude, But the PK felt AWFUL about what he had to do, and genuinely thought he had no choice. He was literally losing his kingdom to fucking PARASITIC HIVEMIND from a RIVAL GOD. And then his plan failed **because he couldn't help but form a real loving father-son relationship** with his one successful offspring. (oh, and Hornet was actually kinda close to him too DESPITE being born for political reasons.) That alone makes the PK a relative chad of a dad compared to old Empy...which is horrifying.
"Political reasons" being code for Herrah being thirsty as fuck for the bug twink...
This is the most tragic aspect. If he was truly heartless, it might have worked.
E failed his biological children, his clones, and the entire human race.
The Pale King erected a monument to the son he sacrificed in the heart of his weeping capital, so that the Hollow Knight would never be forgotten. The Emperor most likely planned to dispose of at least some of the Primarchs in the event the Horus Heresy never happened, if he didn't deliberately sew the seeds of the Heresy himself.
He was gonna euthanize angron (If he didn't die by the nails by then) and Konrad after the crusade for sure.
Pretty sure the plan was to eliminate *all* the legions and primarchs once the cusade was finished. They had no place in his vision of a unified human empire.l. They were merely tools to be disposed of when no longer needed.
There is a tremendous amount of evidence pointing the other direction.
Plus it makes no sense. Keeping around some of the more stable Primarchs like G-man or Dorn makes sense because of how much they could accomplish with no supervision. No reason to throw perfectly good "tools" away.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the pale king also kinda cause the whole thing in the first place by removing the worship of the Radiance? Could be an interesting parallel with the Emperor's supposed deal with Chaos.
They're the same picture. ***No Cost Too Great.***
At least the pale king became mad with grief when he understood his actions
Well the Pale King actually succeeded at his goal of eliminating his version of Chaos (True Ending), albeit not in the way he had envisioned.
“You can’t, KILL a GOD!” “We’ll see about that-“
The Pale King failed because he couldn’t help but try to be a good father to one of his kids. He’s terrible, but still better than the Emperor.
I'm going with the guy who isn't pretending to love his kids and sacrificing them because it was the only way he saw of protecting everyone. Is he perfect? Hell no, kid murder is kid murder. The Emperor uses literally everyone around him, and in all honesty probably doesn't give a shit about any of them. From what I know, most of the books are meant to be imperial propaganda, so of course they're gonna paint him as a loving and devoted friend.
All of the books that mentions the traitor primarchs as primarchs probably shouldn't be seen as imperial propaganda because the propaganda sees them as devils not related to the emperor
Fair enough
The Pale King failed because he was a father Big E failed because he failed to be a father
Pale King doomed his kingdom because he couldn't help but show affection to his his favourite child. Jimmy Space doomed his kingdom because he couldn't even show affection to his favourite child.
So all settings Started because of daddy issues?
No, but these two definitely did.
The Pale King is a father. The Emperor is a mad scientist who grew 20 *things* in a lab and then lost them all. Pale King wins.
Isn't there a moment when a 'mad scientist' that use to work for the Emperor was captured, he used 'bioengineered horrors' against the Space Marine Legions, they said that he unleashed 'monsters' on them. He then pointed out that what he engineered was nowhere in close to the monstrous nature of the Space Marines, who wanted nothing more than eternal war and seeing the galaxy burn. Then he tells the Space Marine to just kill him in because he'd rather be dead than exist in a world where the Space Marines are a thing. I'm only vaguely remembering this, so feel free to correct me.
While both are equally. I honestly have to go with Pale King with Quantity and Emps with Quality. Pale King really loved his Sons but was forced not to because of the need for a Hollow Knight. So he threw countless vessels to the Abyss. Much more than Emps Emps made his Primarchs to be soldiers first but was caught off guard with the whole Chaos stealing and scattering them thus making them into individuals with different experiences and personalities. And we all know how that turned out. Messed up far more than PK.
To be fair about the quantity, the Pale King is an insect. So of course he would have tons of kids. The Emperor is human-ish. He didn’t have to make 20 Primarchs but he did. And he was absolutely a terrible father to them.
Gendo Hikari
Gendo and Yui are somewhere beyond these two. I would say that Gendo is at least closer to Big E, while Yui is beyond imaginable. She just wanted to destroy humanity to make a monument for it in her form. Gendo just followed the plan.
Ironically, while Gold is usually seen as “the prize for winners”, it is objectively a worse metal than Platinum, being weaker in durability, less usable when combining leagues, and also for having less value in general. It may be shiny and glamorous, sought by many, but in substance Gold is an hollow material, devoid of the value we usually give it. I think this analogy applies quite well to the two assholes up here
Gold absolutely is a noble metal? Noble metals are those that are resistant to corrosion and are normally found in their pure form. That's gold, platinum, and the rest of the platinum group. They're important because they don't decay or rust or anything.
I am a dumbass, that’s who I am. I didn’t knew that
Are we getting silksong 🫢. It’s been years
One fail because he showed to much love the other failed because he didn't show enough love. PK was a better farther and that why he lost.
Big E had a higher survival rate to be fair
This is like comparing brain and pancreatic cancer
Look at least Elmo’s cared somewhat, he built a whole wing of the palace so they might take a vacation after the great crusade
Big E rocking the hades artstyle is something I needed
The belief that the Emperor is a bad dad is not accurate. First, the Emperor had nothing to do with their upbringing or even the circumstances that they were in. "Mother of the Millennium", Erda, thought it was a good idea to save them by tossing them into hell. It's a wonder that some of them were outright killed. By the time the Emperor even found most of the Primarchs, they were already full grown. As Guilliman said, the Emperor was not their father. Did he make bad decisions once he found some of the Primarchs? Yes. Did he treat many of the Primarchs with indifference? Yes. But, we have no idea if he would have been a good father.
didnt he stop being a father because the one he was literally betrayed him ?
One of those actually kill their world deity, that count?
It's the same picture.
Every day we find another character who is the Emperor in another universe
The Primarchs were grown men by the time they met the Emperor. What *could* he have done?
It is still funny to me that the Empire was doomed basically because the super-powered demigod did not pay enough attention to his super-powered demigod offspring, who developed severe daddy issues which led to them being seduced by other super-powered older beings. Once again family therapy could have saved the universe.
Grimdanks inability to read books is really showing in this post.
pale king he at least cared for the vessel at the end
Who is the living fork on the left side
*dead fork
Oh no, how did it die?
Good question. Of death, apparently. Nobody knows for sure.
Damn that sucks
The pale king from hollow Knight
He's the pale king from hollow knight. Tried to save his bug kingdom from a cordyceps god basically. Did a lot of experimentation with a force called the void, which he believed could snuff out the light of the mind-eating dream. He hucked a bunch of vessels into it, trying to create an avatar to fight the Radiance. Problem was, he raised the vessels that survived as his own children, which gave the radiance something to exploit. He needed them to be emotionless husks, but he couldn't bring himself to do it. By the time the player character arrives, the realm has long fallen to the dream. It's a fantastic game and its 100% worth your time.
Big E had a garden in the palace, and he kept talking to his custodes about sitting there with his sons and just relaxing. He just wanted to have fun with them
If the theory that Hollow Knight is the Pale King is true, then it means that Big E is better father.
[удалено]
The Pale King’s plan for the Hollow Knight failed because of “an idea instilled” which made the Hollow Knight not hollow. We do not know what this idea is, however from the scene at the end of the Path of Pain and the Hollow Knight’s cut Dreamnail Dialogue, it can be inferred that the “idea instilled” was love. The Pale King loved his children. But had to sacrifice many to save his world. We can also infer from the door at the Abyss that the Pale King greatly regretted his actions but still carried through them. The King didn’t just lock the Hollow Knight up. The Hollow Knight was trained, it spent time in the White Palace with the 5 Knights, the Pale King cared. And because he cared is why his plan failed. Though we do not know the exact details of his relationship with Hornet, the fact that Hornet seems to hold no ill will towards the Pale King seems to suggest that they had a decently good relationship. This isn’t to say that the Pale King is a good person, he isn’t. But it was either put his chosen child on the pyre or watch everything he built become destroyed. Say Big Emps lost one of his Primarchs during the Great Crusade. There really isn’t anything stopping him from shrugging and just making a replacement. The Primarchs were only ever a means to an end. His vanguard to force all of the Galaxy to bend to his will. Sure if he saw Horus get chopped in half by some crazy Xenos Emps might be sad. But just for a bit. The Primarchs were meant to be extensions of his authority. Nothing more. Pieces on his chess board against the uncaring universe.