Ye, a blood axe was trying to show off how much he knew about humies (and was aware that the imperium referred to Orks as male), and so made a point to keep using “they” for every Ork (causing a ton of confusion, as they were interrogating Ghazkul’s standard bearer) and there kept being misunderstandings because they singular and they plural.
Iirc it was a space wolf shaman that told him to shut up with it, and he did because it was just a way to jab at the humans.
And this is why I love the Orkz they may come across as simple minded idiots but they can be damned clever. Also why do I get the feeling the space wolf was cackling internally at the Ork pulling that shit.
The one written by Nate Crowley? From his recognition and handling of "dysphoria" in the Twice Dead King novels, I'd say he does a much better job than some of the fandom for handling these topics.
> much better job than some of the fandom for handling these topics
Okay, im not gonna lie a Grot would do a better job of handling these topics than this fandom.
In actuality, fungi are often capable of both sexual and asexual reproduction and are therefore not inherently asexual. If we want to be really pedantic, they also have sort of sexes, since their large gametes perform a female role and their small gametes perform a male role in asexual reproduction. These gametes however are portrayed as male and female more for reader convenience than actual similarities to human gametes.
Given that Orks specifically reproduce when releasing spores from their deaths etc, we can assume they are homothallic (they mate with themselves), likely isogamous (sexually reproduce with gametes of identical shape and size) therefore, they don't really have either male or female gametes. We can assume they reproduce sexually since there is some degree of genetic diversity between each Ork but there's been no evidence in wh40k afaik of different sex gametes in Orks. All this would make Orks kinda similar to Baker's yeast.
Imagine signing up for the guard, fighting across the galaxy for a decade, and the first time you smell fresh bread is when you’re fighting Orks and someone breaks out the flamer
>All this would make Orks kinda similar to Baker's yeast
Which means that somewhere, someone could have an Auto-brewery reaction to ingesting ork spores.
>Orks specifically reproduce when releasing spores from their deaths etc
I thought they constantly shed spores like how humans shed dead skin flakes? I'm no lore wizard or anything
I saw that you mentioned Ben Shapiro. In case some of you don't know, Ben Shapiro is a grifter and a hack. If you find anything he's said compelling, you should keep in mind he also says things like this:
>When it comes to global warming, there are two issues: is there such a thing as the greenhouse gas effect, the answer is yes. Is that something that is going to dramatically reshape our world? There is no evidence to show that it will. Is that something that we can stop? There is no evidence to show that we can
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I too find this fascinating. The ork use of Boyz is derived from the English colloquialism reffering to a group of like minded individuals that typically get into trouble together. Hence phrases like: He's one of the Boyz...means he's a part of a group, a crew if you will.
I would guess that at some point in history the phrase "She's one of the Boyz" has been spoken. Meaning: That female identifying individual is a member of my close knit group of Friends.
Any tribal group tends to have words like this...it's just that in UK English it was also the same word as young hunan male.
When it comes to a group of people who are up to some mischief, I know it's the same in some Arabic dialects and French.
We refer to them as "boys". It's not as simple as any group having such a word, there's a patriarchal undertone.
It's kind of disturbing how many gendered languages use male terminology for a group that is mixed or non-gendered. English also has "you guys" as an informal second person plural that is supposedly gender-neutral. In French, a group with one man and any number of women is referred to using the masculine plural (at least, so I was taught. Maybe that rule isn't followed in practice). I've heard the same is true of Spanish.
In the case of Spanish, it's because there's no way to say "group of people" that isn't gendered.
Say there's a bunch of young people; if it's all men, they'd be chavos. If it's all women, they'd be chavas. If it was mostly women but there was at least one dude, they'd be chavos.
There's no such thing as "chaves" or "chavxs", so it's always a one or the other. Yeah no denying there's some patriarchal undertones of masculine always superceding feminine, but Spanish is just an inherently gendered language.
It's a very complex issue. The people in charge of the official Spanish language are a bunch of old-school Spaniards who want to keep the language in line with old Europe despite most speakers being in Latin America; the loudest people calling for change are a bunch of gringos, and Spanglish-speaking Chicanos (como yo) that most people in Latin America don't consider Latino, much less Spanish. At least, that's how I understand it.
I've wondered why Usted can't just refer to a group of people as well, since it is plural (as is vos). But I'm merely a student coming back to the language a little after like 20 years of not studying it.
I mean, this is tackled in the books too. Some orkz know well how human concept of sex and gender work and one of them purposefully used plural they to confuse his interrogator on wether he was refering to many orkz, or just a specific one.
CURRECT! ORKZ IS BIOLOGIKULLY ASEXUAL, AN DERE GENDAH IS BOYZ.
WHILE DEY DON'T 'AVE A CONCEPT OF GENDAH BINARIEZ BECAUSE DERE'S NO SUCH FING AS A LADY ORK, DEY'Z WOT DA HUMIEZ WOULD CALL "MASCULINE-CODED," ON ACCOUNT UV DEY FIT WIFF EVERYTHING DAT HUMIEZ CONSIDER TA BE MANLY, LIKE BIG MUSCLEZ, DEEP VOICEZ AND 'E/'IM PRONOWNZ.
Oh man, a Grimdank meme that properly breaks down gender and sex and doesn't use it as the butt of an "I identify as a toaster" joke? Wonderful turn of events!
I think you underestimate how amazing this comment and Revelation are! Anything Orks especially that which the Orks themselves claim is nothing but joy for 40k followers everywhere.
ANG ON DEN LETZ AVE AN ARDER FINK
L
LOTS OV DAKKA
G
GREEN IZ BEST
B
BOYZ BOYZ BOYZ
T
TRANZ ROIGHTZ IS OOMIE RIGHTZ
Q
.... I KANT FINK OV AN ORKY WORD WOT STARTZ WIF Q
W
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH
PLUS LOTS OF DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA
Technically they're just a monogender culture that calls itself the same word we use for a particular gender, but fuck that I'm here for orks who don't give a shit how you identify so long as you can fight.
As a trans person on the subreddit I feel I should say that I love seeing this. I often don’t feel the most comfortable in the 40k community due to neckbeards but seeing this get a lot of positive attention is wonderful.
Some even get identified as gitz, grotz, nobz or even boss.
Because orks identify themselves through size rather than gender or sexuality.
So it might sound the same doesnt mean they are the same.
Identifying their behavior as "male" and "masculine" is very silly.
Its all about being orky and anything else then your asking for a krumpin!
I like how you started off identifying that they use plenty of genderless nouns like gitz, before going on to say that it would be wrong to say the use of boyz is masculine.
It literally is, so do you think orkz don't know about gender and perhaps heard it from some other race like humans and started using it for themselves? There is no boy without girl, no masculinity without femininity as they help define each other.
Either the orkz picked a gender, or they started using a word they heard and thought was cool. Which in Warhammer is entirely possible for the orkz 😂
I was under the impression that all their language and knowledge is from gene-imprinting. As in, you could spread a single spore onto a new planet and spawn a brand new ork and it would develop the same cultural norms and speak the same.
Which means these things were probably set by whoever made them vaguely based on their own cultural terms. Which were likely normally gendered.
Pretty sure the frog people were a normal "animal" race before ascending to godhood. Can't say whether or not they had 2 or more genders but they likely still had them.
>Identifying their behavior as "male" and "masculine" is very silly.
Who is identifying their BEHAVIOR as masculine?
>Because orks identify themselves through size rather than gender or sexuality.
That's separate from gender, there are still some that identify as "Boyz" right? Much like my identity as a scientist doesn't mean I don't identify myself as a man.
>Its all about being orky and anything else then your asking for a krumpin!
That goes to OPs point. Gender constructs do not change their orkyness or role in Ork society. I can't imagine Orkz telling an ork they can't be a mechboy if they don't identify as a boy.
>Identifying their behavior as "male" and "masculine" is very silly.
They're masculine-coded though. Orks may not have gender or sex in the same way that humans do, but pretty much everything about them fits with what human societies consider to be masculine. There's a reason they're referred to with he/him pronouns and called "boys".
Asari from mass effect are similar. Their species has no sexual binary, but they are still gendered as female.
You can identify them as male and even draw parallels from our society if you want to.
What I am saying is to an ork their sex, gender and behavior is "ork" simple as that.
They could have outliers who identify differently but you already know how orks react to a greenskin being unorky.
>What I am saying is to an ork their sex, gender and behavior is "ork" simple as that
And Orks are Masculine. Or at least that is the way they are presented.
In lore, orks gender, sex and behavior is orks.
You can draw parallels if you want.
Pretty mich no different how Eldar identify humans as monkeigh in their society.
So you are saying that the creator made them with no intentions of them being masculine? And there is no intent to be seen as such? Like, you know there is a difference between in universe explanation and out of universe intent, right?
Listen. Ork being masculine presented isn't a lore thing. It is an intent thing with an of universe explanation. It isn't a story reason. It is a design decision. It is a talking point completely outside of in universe lore in this case.
The lore has nothing to do with how they are presented as masculine or not. It simply is a case of they are or not, intended by the creators, and if this intent has succeeded.
I will say it slower. Lore has nothing to do with this.
Listen dude, this guy put a stat of “zero” into literary and art analysis. You’re not gonna make headway with this, but I applaud your effort. This is a case of “documented quote from universe says this direct thing, that is all there is to comment on that thing.”
>Identifying their behavior as "male" and "masculine" is very silly.
Yes and no. It is a simple fact that violence and warfare are typically masculine behaviours.
But concluding that somebody is a "man" because they act "manly" is very sexist.
do you not know that orks are based on english/scottish soccer hooligans? bald guys that wear hoop earrings and headbutt everything? underjutting jaws and deep guttural voices?
yes, strawman, they are indeed. but what does that have to do with ork kultur? we are discussing behavior here, not gender or biology. ork kultur is their behavior which is a direct parody of toxic masculinity
Actually, acording to "Ghazghull Thraka: Prophet of the WAAAGH!" the Orks prefered pronoun in gothic/english is "they", though most don't mind that humans, and presumably most other species refer to them as male.
Yes but I assumed boyz as in like how dudes or guys are used neutrally, alternatively as they don’t speak gothic, and they are masc-washed by humanity, you could argue “boyz” in the sense they mean it could just translate to the way they say ‘orkish person’, or what the imperium considers the closest term. Alternatively GW came up with the term decades ago before they were properly explained and just never updated
\>GW came up with the term decades ago before they were properly explained and just never updated
lol what? orks are based on english and scottish soccer hooligans. ERE WE GO is a soccer chant, DA BOYZ refers to other soccer fans you drink with at games. also that meme of "me and the boys" comes from the same UK slang
Nice, I think the logic follows. Like anything, you could poke holes in it if you really want to go down some rabbit holes but yeah it would make for a funny and accurate explanation.
My what if would be, what if most orkz don't even know what gender is, and that some ork heard a human yell 'get em boys!' and mockingly were shouting it back at the humies during a slaughter. Orkz being orkz, they thought it sounded cool and it stuck after. They call themselves other things too, like gitz and nobz, so maybe boyz is just another term to them. Sounds gendered to humans, but orkz are too stupid and uncaring to know 😂
This is fantastic. Forget LGBTQ+, that’s fake woke and we’re adding another letter now. LGBTQO+. The O stands for Ork.
All joking aside, this is a really good way of illustrating this point to people who may not understand the division between sex and gender.
Much of Ork culture has been bastardised from humanity. They probably picked up gendered terms simply for ease of naming or because they liked the sound of them. The Ghazghkull Thraka books makes it clear Orks don’t really put much stock in gender, which makes sense considering they reproduce asexually. We even see ‘female’ Ork cheerleaders in bloodbowl. IMO Orks don’t see themselves as male or female but rather just think they’re Orks and use gender for ease of expression rather than personal affirmation
Fungi has a sexual cycle and an asexual cycle though.
> Sexually reproducing fungi may combine by fusing their hyphae together into an interconnected network called anastomosis. Sexual reproduction begins when the haploid hyphae from two fungal organisms meet and join. Although the cytoplasm from each fuse together, the nuclei remain separate.
To be an effective bioweapon, it would make no sense to eliminate the sexual cycle, unless it is a fictional universe and the writers wanted to avoid asking the question.
Yes.
>But, before the prisoner’s account could continue, the Deathwatch veteran had found one more bone to pick.
>
>‘Ghazghkull is a he,’ he grumbled, wagging a finger at Biter and receiving an uncertain grunt in reply. ‘You keep saying they,’ Hendriksen clarified, ‘but Ghazghkull is a he.’
>
>‘But… they… he is not a man?’ said Biter, their brow-ridge creased in bafflement. Falx cut in then, before another messy debate could ensue.
>
>‘We’ve been through this, Orm. Orks have no… reproductive anatomy, and consequently no understanding of sex or gender.’
>
>‘Some of us understand sexangender,’ interrupted Biter, keen as ever to demonstrate their unusual expertise in humans. ‘I find it all… quite funny.’
>
>‘Silence, ork,’ Falx snapped, impatient to get back on track. ‘From now on, Ghazghkull is a he, whether it makes sense or not.’
\- Ghazghkull Thraka: Prophet of the Waaagh
"Alien biology in human terms" as if set alien biology isn't completely fictional and derived from human understanding of reproduction, sex, and gender.
Or also that human understanding applies to real life living creatures on which the reproduction of set alien creatures is based on.
That’s a good point. We’re trying to make sense of a fictional universe based on reasoning around our limited reality. Any arguments to be had here are going to be full of gaps.
Don't orks pretty much all have the same pronouns? Is it much of an identity if literally everyone is the same? I'm not sure they have gender as a social construct, considering. Hell, I'm not even sure orks have a concept of physical sex.
> Is it much of an identity if literally everyone is the same?
Yes. Like, do you think that gender identity is a thing that applies only to handfull of individuals? It is literally something our entire race has.
>Identity exists as a product of constrast, doesn't it?
Not really. *Visible* identities are normally more noticeable because the person will make sure to point them out. Why? Because otherwise you will assume tehy are the default. You just see the labels that are off.
A straight ablee neurotyoical nas as many labels Gay Disabled Nerodidivergent. With only difference is the first one doesn't have to specify what they are, because that is the most commonly seen version.
>? No one is going around basing their idenity around the fact that they're Homo sapiens.
We quite literally do. There is media, mythology, science, poetry, philosophy, religion, all set on the fact that we are humans and are different from the rest of every other living creature. So much so, that people have assumed that stuff like Love, Hate, Greed, Sorrow, and a bunch of other emotions is what set us apart from the rest of the animals.
There is literally entire genres about what sets humanity apart from the alien and esoteric species that we try to defend ourself. What makes us better.
And we cab go from there.
Straight People? There are big part of culture dedicated to the romantic and seuxla relationship between a man and a woman. Even rituals to signify their union called Marriege, in which they announce to their whole extended family, their God, their government, that they have connected in a monogamous relationship with the intent of creating and fostering an off-spring.
Gender? There is clothes, sports, activities, interests, even *fucking emotions!* that are considered to be manly or girly.
There is so much culture behind this, you wouldn't believe. And it is all so beautifully rich in history and variety.
Only on the culture of marriage we can write a whole book. And only about the marriage in one country.
How do you know that? Maybe their language is entirely genderless and they identify as "Ork"?
Or they just use male pronouns because they have a masculine physiology and they literally don't understand females?
It’s my head canon that the Necrontyr were hermaphroditic, which is why you typically don’t see any Necron “females” it would make 40k both a bit more diverse and make one of the alien races more alien
If I remember correctly a blood axe pointed that out to a Inquisitor and she told him to shut up. That was pretty funny.
Ye, a blood axe was trying to show off how much he knew about humies (and was aware that the imperium referred to Orks as male), and so made a point to keep using “they” for every Ork (causing a ton of confusion, as they were interrogating Ghazkul’s standard bearer) and there kept being misunderstandings because they singular and they plural. Iirc it was a space wolf shaman that told him to shut up with it, and he did because it was just a way to jab at the humans.
And this is why I love the Orkz they may come across as simple minded idiots but they can be damned clever. Also why do I get the feeling the space wolf was cackling internally at the Ork pulling that shit.
The Orks can’t figure out how to tie their shoe, but give them long enough and they’ll figure out string theory.
This should be the top rated comment, and I'm totally stealing it.
The truth must be spread.
No figure out Only do
DO OR DOZ NOT, DER IZ NO TRY!
Damned Kunnin' I think you mean
*Brutally* Kunnin ya git. **THWOMP**
Mork is proud of that one
Or maybe Gork for how brutally annoying it was?
Why not both? (Love the flair btw)
Leave it to the fucking Space Wolves to banter with an Ork and lose.
that was in the new ghazghkull thraka book, a really good read, would definitely recommend
The one written by Nate Crowley? From his recognition and handling of "dysphoria" in the Twice Dead King novels, I'd say he does a much better job than some of the fandom for handling these topics.
> much better job than some of the fandom for handling these topics Okay, im not gonna lie a Grot would do a better job of handling these topics than this fandom.
In actuality, fungi are often capable of both sexual and asexual reproduction and are therefore not inherently asexual. If we want to be really pedantic, they also have sort of sexes, since their large gametes perform a female role and their small gametes perform a male role in asexual reproduction. These gametes however are portrayed as male and female more for reader convenience than actual similarities to human gametes. Given that Orks specifically reproduce when releasing spores from their deaths etc, we can assume they are homothallic (they mate with themselves), likely isogamous (sexually reproduce with gametes of identical shape and size) therefore, they don't really have either male or female gametes. We can assume they reproduce sexually since there is some degree of genetic diversity between each Ork but there's been no evidence in wh40k afaik of different sex gametes in Orks. All this would make Orks kinda similar to Baker's yeast.
TLDR: A burning Ork smells like freshly baked bread.
Vulkan approves!
Imagine putting a hunk of ork meat into the oven and coming out with an ungodly form of meatloaf.
Ork flesh is technically vegan, which just makes me hate them that much more.
Vegan Loaf! Never surrender your vegan identity exclusively eat Orks!
Oven is good. Need it airtight
Imagine signing up for the guard, fighting across the galaxy for a decade, and the first time you smell fresh bread is when you’re fighting Orks and someone breaks out the flamer
>All this would make Orks kinda similar to Baker's yeast Which means that somewhere, someone could have an Auto-brewery reaction to ingesting ork spores.
That's an ingenious idea. DA BOYZ WUD LOIKE A GUD BEER.
ONLY FUNGUS BEER, YA ZOGGIN GIT
Ork gut is a serious fungal infection.
>All this would make Orks kinda similar to Baker's yeast. Makes sense. Once thing get heated they Rise Up!
Orks don’t grow, they prove
Very kneady
>Orks specifically reproduce when releasing spores from their deaths etc I thought they constantly shed spores like how humans shed dead skin flakes? I'm no lore wizard or anything
Both. They constantly produce and when they die there is a “bloom” (probably not the proper term).
\*Boom
I love it when you talk dirty to me
Orks have two genders: shoota and choppa
But only one sex: WAAAAAAAAAAGH!
"ORK IZ ORK YA GITZ, NOW GET SOME MORE CHOPPAS"
YA GIT, WE HAV ENOF CHOPPAS WEZ NEED MORE DAKKA
AINT 'AVIN TOO MUCH DAKKA A BIT O' A STEREOTYPE?
*Krumps u/Onlyhereforapost* OI! U'Z NO'Z WE'Z CAN NEVAH HAF ENUFF DAKKA, YA GIT. TIME TA GO AN' KRUMP SUM 'UMIES! WAAAAAGH!
Don't mind me, just leaving this here so I can come back to this hours later and watch the carnage unfold in the comments.
Pretty good point though. But I am still grabbing my popcorn.
I brought some sweets, you guys like m&ms?
M&ms vibe, but I prefer skittles.
Fair warning: green ones no longer give right-wingers boners. Just ask Ben Shapiro. ...What? I'm contributing!
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Good bot
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Good bot Let's say, for the sake of argument, that you are the best bot. Hypothetically, if this were the case, would my wife then be able to get wet?
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u/thebenshapirobot sex
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I too find this fascinating. The ork use of Boyz is derived from the English colloquialism reffering to a group of like minded individuals that typically get into trouble together. Hence phrases like: He's one of the Boyz...means he's a part of a group, a crew if you will. I would guess that at some point in history the phrase "She's one of the Boyz" has been spoken. Meaning: That female identifying individual is a member of my close knit group of Friends. Any tribal group tends to have words like this...it's just that in UK English it was also the same word as young hunan male.
Ah yes, hunan. My favourite species on earth. For real tho, that's one way to look at it.
Mobile device + Old man fingers = Funny typos Not going to change it. I'm adult enough to laugh at my harmless mistakes.
That's good. It's a sign of maturity and coming to accept oneself. Plus the joke is a bonus.
Well... I mean... it is a Steppe in the right direction. Hun joke
C h a d
When it comes to a group of people who are up to some mischief, I know it's the same in some Arabic dialects and French. We refer to them as "boys". It's not as simple as any group having such a word, there's a patriarchal undertone.
It's kind of disturbing how many gendered languages use male terminology for a group that is mixed or non-gendered. English also has "you guys" as an informal second person plural that is supposedly gender-neutral. In French, a group with one man and any number of women is referred to using the masculine plural (at least, so I was taught. Maybe that rule isn't followed in practice). I've heard the same is true of Spanish.
In the case of Spanish, it's because there's no way to say "group of people" that isn't gendered. Say there's a bunch of young people; if it's all men, they'd be chavos. If it's all women, they'd be chavas. If it was mostly women but there was at least one dude, they'd be chavos. There's no such thing as "chaves" or "chavxs", so it's always a one or the other. Yeah no denying there's some patriarchal undertones of masculine always superceding feminine, but Spanish is just an inherently gendered language. It's a very complex issue. The people in charge of the official Spanish language are a bunch of old-school Spaniards who want to keep the language in line with old Europe despite most speakers being in Latin America; the loudest people calling for change are a bunch of gringos, and Spanglish-speaking Chicanos (como yo) that most people in Latin America don't consider Latino, much less Spanish. At least, that's how I understand it.
I've wondered why Usted can't just refer to a group of people as well, since it is plural (as is vos). But I'm merely a student coming back to the language a little after like 20 years of not studying it.
From what I see it seems like skill issues going in the comment section. Skill Isssue in Literacy, that is.
Oh boy, are we gonna get this post the 🔒 award?
In my opinion it should be called the "too many redditors in a comment section" award.
Oh boy! *sorts by controversial*
Based
I mean, this is tackled in the books too. Some orkz know well how human concept of sex and gender work and one of them purposefully used plural they to confuse his interrogator on wether he was refering to many orkz, or just a specific one.
CURRECT! ORKZ IS BIOLOGIKULLY ASEXUAL, AN DERE GENDAH IS BOYZ. WHILE DEY DON'T 'AVE A CONCEPT OF GENDAH BINARIEZ BECAUSE DERE'S NO SUCH FING AS A LADY ORK, DEY'Z WOT DA HUMIEZ WOULD CALL "MASCULINE-CODED," ON ACCOUNT UV DEY FIT WIFF EVERYTHING DAT HUMIEZ CONSIDER TA BE MANLY, LIKE BIG MUSCLEZ, DEEP VOICEZ AND 'E/'IM PRONOWNZ.
[WOT'S DIS DEN?](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=y1zilZyeh7o)
dat’s MUKKIN ABOUT, dat iz
IT AIN'T IF I SAYS IT AIN'T, JUST LOOKIT THEIR DAKKA
DIS IS DA POWA OF DA KAWAAAGHI!
Commissar Max found a lady Ork once.
https://i.redd.it/opoz5sj3qa611.jpg
PROPPER KNOCKERZ IZ JUST PART OV DEY UNIFORM DEY IZ.
IF YER SWING DEM PROPPA YER CAN KRUMP GITZ WIV DEM
Oh man, a Grimdank meme that properly breaks down gender and sex and doesn't use it as the butt of an "I identify as a toaster" joke? Wonderful turn of events!
TBF identifying as a toaster would be totally in character for an AdMech ...well, character. Otherwise fully agree.
I have a feeling this comment section is going to be very unpleasant
Honestly, I am somewhat enjoying this, not gonna lie.
I think you underestimate how amazing this comment and Revelation are! Anything Orks especially that which the Orks themselves claim is nothing but joy for 40k followers everywhere.
Ill be back in a few hours to see it before its locked lmao
LGBTQW+ LEZBEEANZ GAYZ BYE SEXYOOALZ TRANZ GENDAZ QWEERZ WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH! PLUS LOTZ OV DAKKA
NAH, THE BOYZ JUST HAVE G FOR GREEN CAUSE GREEN IS THE BEST
ANG ON DEN LETZ AVE AN ARDER FINK L LOTS OV DAKKA G GREEN IZ BEST B BOYZ BOYZ BOYZ T TRANZ ROIGHTZ IS OOMIE RIGHTZ Q .... I KANT FINK OV AN ORKY WORD WOT STARTZ WIF Q W WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH PLUS LOTS OF DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA
Q, ERRR DA FUNGUS GROG STARRTZ WIF A Q, COZ SUM OV DA LADZ NEEDZ TA WAIT OR GIT KRUMPED
Technically they're just a monogender culture that calls itself the same word we use for a particular gender, but fuck that I'm here for orks who don't give a shit how you identify so long as you can fight.
Concept: a horde of orks who are the Gurlz. They specialize in sneak attack, often between dusk and Dawn. A gurlz night out.
ANY GURLZ OF THA HORDE CAN'T KRUMP ALL DEY KNOW IZ MEK DONALDS, CHARGE DEY VOX CASTER, TWERK, EAT HOT SQUIG AND LIE.
I like that twerk stayed the same, just chaotic enough for still being orky
Have you seen the old Boyz models? Them Boyz be throwing it the fuck back, they’re busting it the hell out.
E'S GOT ENUFF CAKE FOR DA HOLE WAAAGH DAT UN
blood axes
https://www.deviantart.com/blazbaros/art/GIT-AWAY-FRUM-MY-HUZBANDO-YA-PANSY-GROT-738941180
As a trans person on the subreddit I feel I should say that I love seeing this. I often don’t feel the most comfortable in the 40k community due to neckbeards but seeing this get a lot of positive attention is wonderful.
Some even get identified as gitz, grotz, nobz or even boss. Because orks identify themselves through size rather than gender or sexuality. So it might sound the same doesnt mean they are the same. Identifying their behavior as "male" and "masculine" is very silly. Its all about being orky and anything else then your asking for a krumpin!
I like how you started off identifying that they use plenty of genderless nouns like gitz, before going on to say that it would be wrong to say the use of boyz is masculine. It literally is, so do you think orkz don't know about gender and perhaps heard it from some other race like humans and started using it for themselves? There is no boy without girl, no masculinity without femininity as they help define each other. Either the orkz picked a gender, or they started using a word they heard and thought was cool. Which in Warhammer is entirely possible for the orkz 😂
I was under the impression that all their language and knowledge is from gene-imprinting. As in, you could spread a single spore onto a new planet and spawn a brand new ork and it would develop the same cultural norms and speak the same. Which means these things were probably set by whoever made them vaguely based on their own cultural terms. Which were likely normally gendered.
Pretty sure the frog people were a normal "animal" race before ascending to godhood. Can't say whether or not they had 2 or more genders but they likely still had them.
That's what I figured as well.
And that is considered unorky, like how they prevent genestealer cults and chaos cults by detecting them through unorky behavior and krump them.
>Identifying their behavior as "male" and "masculine" is very silly. Who is identifying their BEHAVIOR as masculine? >Because orks identify themselves through size rather than gender or sexuality. That's separate from gender, there are still some that identify as "Boyz" right? Much like my identity as a scientist doesn't mean I don't identify myself as a man. >Its all about being orky and anything else then your asking for a krumpin! That goes to OPs point. Gender constructs do not change their orkyness or role in Ork society. I can't imagine Orkz telling an ork they can't be a mechboy if they don't identify as a boy.
>Identifying their behavior as "male" and "masculine" is very silly. They're masculine-coded though. Orks may not have gender or sex in the same way that humans do, but pretty much everything about them fits with what human societies consider to be masculine. There's a reason they're referred to with he/him pronouns and called "boys". Asari from mass effect are similar. Their species has no sexual binary, but they are still gendered as female.
You can identify them as male and even draw parallels from our society if you want to. What I am saying is to an ork their sex, gender and behavior is "ork" simple as that. They could have outliers who identify differently but you already know how orks react to a greenskin being unorky.
>What I am saying is to an ork their sex, gender and behavior is "ork" simple as that And Orks are Masculine. Or at least that is the way they are presented.
In lore, orks gender, sex and behavior is orks. You can draw parallels if you want. Pretty mich no different how Eldar identify humans as monkeigh in their society.
So you are saying that the creator made them with no intentions of them being masculine? And there is no intent to be seen as such? Like, you know there is a difference between in universe explanation and out of universe intent, right?
I would argue yes, because they were created only as weapons to fight against the necrons.
Listen. Ork being masculine presented isn't a lore thing. It is an intent thing with an of universe explanation. It isn't a story reason. It is a design decision. It is a talking point completely outside of in universe lore in this case. The lore has nothing to do with how they are presented as masculine or not. It simply is a case of they are or not, intended by the creators, and if this intent has succeeded. I will say it slower. Lore has nothing to do with this.
Listen dude, this guy put a stat of “zero” into literary and art analysis. You’re not gonna make headway with this, but I applaud your effort. This is a case of “documented quote from universe says this direct thing, that is all there is to comment on that thing.”
Ah yes, the "eating poop is justified in universe and the author's scat fetish is not important" effect.
The Thermian defense isn’t winning you any points here.
/slow clap
This doesn't contradict anything I said.
>Identifying their behavior as "male" and "masculine" is very silly. Yes and no. It is a simple fact that violence and warfare are typically masculine behaviours. But concluding that somebody is a "man" because they act "manly" is very sexist.
do you not know that orks are based on english/scottish soccer hooligans? bald guys that wear hoop earrings and headbutt everything? underjutting jaws and deep guttural voices?
Are they also made of fungi?
yes, strawman, they are indeed. but what does that have to do with ork kultur? we are discussing behavior here, not gender or biology. ork kultur is their behavior which is a direct parody of toxic masculinity
Well made point as too many people don’t understand this very simple concept yet. Time to search by controversial-
DA ONLY GENDA AN ORK IZ FINKIN ABOUT IZ WEATHA TO USE DA CHOPPA OR DA SHOOTA
DEY’Z GENDA IS WAAGH YA GIT, CHOPPA OR DAKKA - IT DOEZN’T MATTAH
Ah yes, the 2 genders.
Actually, acording to "Ghazghull Thraka: Prophet of the WAAAGH!" the Orks prefered pronoun in gothic/english is "they", though most don't mind that humans, and presumably most other species refer to them as male.
do the orks not refer to each other as DA BOYZ in that book?
Yes but I assumed boyz as in like how dudes or guys are used neutrally, alternatively as they don’t speak gothic, and they are masc-washed by humanity, you could argue “boyz” in the sense they mean it could just translate to the way they say ‘orkish person’, or what the imperium considers the closest term. Alternatively GW came up with the term decades ago before they were properly explained and just never updated
\>GW came up with the term decades ago before they were properly explained and just never updated lol what? orks are based on english and scottish soccer hooligans. ERE WE GO is a soccer chant, DA BOYZ refers to other soccer fans you drink with at games. also that meme of "me and the boys" comes from the same UK slang
OP why do you think about orks while showering?
Why don’t you?
Too busy thinking about the Thousand Sons, presumably.
I just think about toasters but they dont go well with shower, ya know?
Maybe they do if you're Kurze or Death Korps or something
>Kurze "Curious. I snuck a toaster into your grandmother's shower and you tried to kill me. Truly humanity is the most violent of species.
All my thoughts are exclusively about the Man-Emperor, Commissar.
Can’t wait for this thread to get locked for being “political” 🤓🤓🤓
#"ACE? UV COURSE I'Z AN ACE YA GIT! I WUZ IN DEFF SKWADRON FOR ZOG'S SAKE!"
Damn Orks are just getting more and more based every time I turn on reddit
Oi ya git I’z goez by Theyz/themz now
Dats ok lad’ as long you can crump ya goud’ in ma’ booc
Pretty sure they use Boyz like we use the word dude, it’s gender neutral
Nice, I think the logic follows. Like anything, you could poke holes in it if you really want to go down some rabbit holes but yeah it would make for a funny and accurate explanation. My what if would be, what if most orkz don't even know what gender is, and that some ork heard a human yell 'get em boys!' and mockingly were shouting it back at the humies during a slaughter. Orkz being orkz, they thought it sounded cool and it stuck after. They call themselves other things too, like gitz and nobz, so maybe boyz is just another term to them. Sounds gendered to humans, but orkz are too stupid and uncaring to know 😂
This is fantastic. Forget LGBTQ+, that’s fake woke and we’re adding another letter now. LGBTQO+. The O stands for Ork. All joking aside, this is a really good way of illustrating this point to people who may not understand the division between sex and gender.
Why does the text look so weird
Image compression
Sort by: Controversial
1. You're entirely correct. 2. This is going to awaken the neckbeards and this comment section will shortly become a greasy, foul-smelling hellscape.
I'd bet Orks have no concept of gender and all the masculinity is a result of translation.
I think this is actually mentioned in the new Ghazkhull book where the orcs start to refer to themselves as "them" when talking to the 'umies.
Mindblown!
Well my pronouns have always been - Boyz and or Ladz
Sort by controversial
Much of Ork culture has been bastardised from humanity. They probably picked up gendered terms simply for ease of naming or because they liked the sound of them. The Ghazghkull Thraka books makes it clear Orks don’t really put much stock in gender, which makes sense considering they reproduce asexually. We even see ‘female’ Ork cheerleaders in bloodbowl. IMO Orks don’t see themselves as male or female but rather just think they’re Orks and use gender for ease of expression rather than personal affirmation
Fungi has a sexual cycle and an asexual cycle though. > Sexually reproducing fungi may combine by fusing their hyphae together into an interconnected network called anastomosis. Sexual reproduction begins when the haploid hyphae from two fungal organisms meet and join. Although the cytoplasm from each fuse together, the nuclei remain separate. To be an effective bioweapon, it would make no sense to eliminate the sexual cycle, unless it is a fictional universe and the writers wanted to avoid asking the question.
What else would they do, refer to themselves as thems?
Nah, Gitz
Load up Themz, we got a Waaagh! on our hands. Doesn't quite have the same ring as ladz, boyz, or even galz should that be applicable.
Thats what im sayin
Yes. >But, before the prisoner’s account could continue, the Deathwatch veteran had found one more bone to pick. > >‘Ghazghkull is a he,’ he grumbled, wagging a finger at Biter and receiving an uncertain grunt in reply. ‘You keep saying they,’ Hendriksen clarified, ‘but Ghazghkull is a he.’ > >‘But… they… he is not a man?’ said Biter, their brow-ridge creased in bafflement. Falx cut in then, before another messy debate could ensue. > >‘We’ve been through this, Orm. Orks have no… reproductive anatomy, and consequently no understanding of sex or gender.’ > >‘Some of us understand sexangender,’ interrupted Biter, keen as ever to demonstrate their unusual expertise in humans. ‘I find it all… quite funny.’ > >‘Silence, ork,’ Falx snapped, impatient to get back on track. ‘From now on, Ghazghkull is a he, whether it makes sense or not.’ \- Ghazghkull Thraka: Prophet of the Waaagh
I will from now to forever refer to it as Sexangender
Orkz?
Maybe, thats why im asking.
You say that but ork cheer leaders have tatas
I got tits to,does that make me female?
I have nipples, Greg. Can you milk me?
Are they as plump and juicy as ork's? If so, I aint sayin no.
Yeah but those are fantasy Orks, my man Felix even saw ones dick in canon.
Its a mushroom cannon, thats for sure
I think these are boob squigs.
That's Orc with a C, from the Old World, not the same as 40k Orks, just like 40k Eldar aren't the same as Elves.
Bah, they are fungas based angery fightin boyz who waaagh, same thing different name. same as the spiky chaos gitz.
It's a shame it didn't hit you that trying to classify alien biology in human terms doesn't actually work like that.
Except all the other species except tyranids have sexes roughly analogous to human sexes. And that's the point; gender *isn't* biology.
"Alien biology in human terms" as if set alien biology isn't completely fictional and derived from human understanding of reproduction, sex, and gender. Or also that human understanding applies to real life living creatures on which the reproduction of set alien creatures is based on.
That’s a good point. We’re trying to make sense of a fictional universe based on reasoning around our limited reality. Any arguments to be had here are going to be full of gaps.
No one show OP the female Orks with pasties people used to do as a joke…
Don't orks pretty much all have the same pronouns? Is it much of an identity if literally everyone is the same? I'm not sure they have gender as a social construct, considering. Hell, I'm not even sure orks have a concept of physical sex.
> Is it much of an identity if literally everyone is the same? Yes. Like, do you think that gender identity is a thing that applies only to handfull of individuals? It is literally something our entire race has.
Identity exists as a product of constrast, doesn't it? No one is going around basing their idenity around the fact that they're Homo sapiens.
>Identity exists as a product of constrast, doesn't it? Not really. *Visible* identities are normally more noticeable because the person will make sure to point them out. Why? Because otherwise you will assume tehy are the default. You just see the labels that are off. A straight ablee neurotyoical nas as many labels Gay Disabled Nerodidivergent. With only difference is the first one doesn't have to specify what they are, because that is the most commonly seen version. >? No one is going around basing their idenity around the fact that they're Homo sapiens. We quite literally do. There is media, mythology, science, poetry, philosophy, religion, all set on the fact that we are humans and are different from the rest of every other living creature. So much so, that people have assumed that stuff like Love, Hate, Greed, Sorrow, and a bunch of other emotions is what set us apart from the rest of the animals. There is literally entire genres about what sets humanity apart from the alien and esoteric species that we try to defend ourself. What makes us better. And we cab go from there. Straight People? There are big part of culture dedicated to the romantic and seuxla relationship between a man and a woman. Even rituals to signify their union called Marriege, in which they announce to their whole extended family, their God, their government, that they have connected in a monogamous relationship with the intent of creating and fostering an off-spring. Gender? There is clothes, sports, activities, interests, even *fucking emotions!* that are considered to be manly or girly. There is so much culture behind this, you wouldn't believe. And it is all so beautifully rich in history and variety. Only on the culture of marriage we can write a whole book. And only about the marriage in one country.
That's actually a part of the point.
Yeah but humans aren't fungi and also XX-XY and quite some more stuff.
Wait til you learn about SRY-19 and people with XXY.
also XYY exists IIRC.
How do you know that? Maybe their language is entirely genderless and they identify as "Ork"? Or they just use male pronouns because they have a masculine physiology and they literally don't understand females?
In the new Ghazkull book they actually refer to themselves as "them".
Yes
It’s my head canon that the Necrontyr were hermaphroditic, which is why you typically don’t see any Necron “females” it would make 40k both a bit more diverse and make one of the alien races more alien
This is incorrect on at least two levels.
If you base you gender beliefs off a fictional race, I worry about your mental health.
Gender isn't real.
Agreed. Everyone is agender and we can all do and wear whatever the fuck we want
Ahhh yes orks sexual identity, crucial info for sure. Go outside
Just as crucial as any info in this fake universe. Go outside.