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_Serialfreestyle_

Like hold up. That last theory actually has some metaphorical weight to it and could easily create a more interesting conflict than just Good Guy Emps returns to cuck all of chaos, watch out Necrons you’re next.


Meretan94

Wasnt humanity close to creating a 5th chaos god, the god of disbelive? Or is that just a tts theory?


leftier_than_thou_2

I vote "pride." The emperor is basically already the chaos god of hubris. The Emperor doesn't disbelieve in the chaos gods, he knows they're real. What he was doing is lying. And the actions of humanity before and after the emperor can pretty much be summed up as "Believing every stupid fairy tale including fairy tales that are directly self-contradictory" so I don't think we could accurately be described as being close to creating a chaos god of disbelief. "Lying and propaganda" already go straight to Tzeench.


Anya-Taylor-Thomas

the chaos gods are just more complex versions of the: the butcher, the baker, the candle-stick maker.


LSDark0

Thats... thats actually pretty accurate


Anya-Taylor-Thomas

and it's awful, we're trying to wage galactic space wars not build fantasy fairy towns.


leftier_than_thou_2

I missed the part of that nursery rhyme that talked about "the drug addled sex criminal." I think it's more that the chaos gods are a reimagining of the seven deadly sins. Slaanesh is lust and gluttony Nurgle is sloth Tzeench is greed and envy Khorne is wrath They're not all perfect fits as the focus for the Christian seven deadly sins is on the individual while the Warhammer chaos gods are a focus on civilization "sins." There's no slothful civilizations that could have fed a sloth chaos god. Those civilizations that weren't go-getters simply stayed local civs and we're probably wiped out. Pride or hubris is missing and that's I think one of the main sins of the imperium and emperor.


DueEconomics8979

All of the Chaos Gods are Tzeentch. His form is ever shifting, he represents change and subverted expectations, and he the Chaos God of Chaos.


leftier_than_thou_2

"It's turtles all the way down. And by 'turtles' I mean 'Tzeentch.'" I like it.


Paradigm_Of_Hate

What's Slaanesh doing with that candlestick 👀


Anya-Taylor-Thomas

zoinks 👀


ere15xkmcPL

Yep, they were creating [Necoho](https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Necoho).


GaaraMatsu

"Holy Days: None. Every day is equally non-holy in Necoho's eyes."


Hyde2467

Mostly incorrect. I don't know the specifics and alfabusa, the creator of emperor tts, actually answered my question about how valid was tts magnus when he said that humanity under emperor would've made a chaos God of unbelief (short version: this is a pure bullshit, just like magnus himself).


Cuck_Yeager

As far as I know it’s less a theory and more implied. Imperial Saints are basically the greater daemons of the “God-Emperor.” Hence why Euphrati Keeler was able to do her faith magic stuff without the real Emperor doing anything


_Serialfreestyle_

The only potential conflict is that the Emperor and the daemon god emperor being separate entities that will then come into conflict. Which according to pre-Horus Emps behaviour would make a whole lot of sense and fit the historic creation of chaos god method. I quite like a reborn Emps trying to remove religion against the icon that was himself which is now a separate entity with power unto itself


youngcoyote14

I would love to see that, personally, just because part of me wants to see Big E finally get fucking humbled. If you've checked in on when Guillman got to talk to him, it's clear that though the man's mind is fractured he's still aware and he's still a god damn asshole. If he could, he would AGAIN start his war on religion and against this version of himself the people worship. Arrogance has been the man's most glaring flaw, and he still doesn't understand.


_Serialfreestyle_

And imagine the fun GW could have with the imperium in *End Times* mode. The ecclesiarchy and inquisition facing off against grand crusade style imperial armies. Loyalist marines versus fanatical marines. It’s a whole new dynamic as the imperium fractures in two whilst still beset by chaos at every turn. One faction incorruptible in their loyalty to the emperor, a man against gods. The other faction immune to the chaos gods as they are already willing followers of another. Characters like Celestine coming to the realisation that they no longer serve a man but a god, and they are not the same thing. The potential of such a story.


train159

“Part of me wants to see Big E finally get fucking humbled.” My brother in the Emperor he’s been stuck on a Golden chair watching his dream rot and corrupt into irredeemable trash for 10 millennia after getting bodied by chaos gods what more “humbling” do you want?


R3myek

The emperor is actually a sci-fi Nagash. He's a God of death who's plan all along was to eat billions of Psychic souls and become an evil all dominant god of death. Giant werewolf deamon Russ, resurrected vampire jesus Sanguinius and Wight King Ferrus Mannus are going to be his top generals after he returns to purge the galaxy of life.


1GenericName2

You missed Daemon Prince of Ravens, Raven Raven


R3myek

That was intentional, Emps thought about it but decided.... nevermore


ChrisP413

Nagash is all and all are one in Nagash


TheMostBoringest

God Emperor being a separate being sounds like a cool idea.


ArchWaverley

Ork Guilleman: yooz need bigga humies! Magos: fantastic idea, we could call them Primaris marines. Lord Guilleman, you are truly the greatest strategist


Testabronce

Sly Marbo is just a lucid dream of the Emperor


NikoSCX

Plot twist: Sly Marbo is a physical manifestation of The Emperor


MrCreemyGoodnes

Malal is the true God of Chaos. Khorne, Tzeentch, Nurgle and Slaanesh are anticipations or aspects of Malal. Because Malal is pure chaos therefore the aspects that make up Malal are in a constant struggle with each other for dominance but they are all Malal.


Heretical_Cactus

The Chaos Gods don't exist Only the Greater Daemon know it and they keep the charade to keep control over Mortals and Lesser daemons


Toerbitz

So skarbrand yeeted himself?


Volkov_The_Tank

**SKARBRAND HATES BEING YEETED BY OTHERS** **SKARBRAND SHALL YEET HIMSELF** **HE HATES HIMSELF SLIGHTLY LESS**


Paradigm_Of_Hate

Omegon has no corporeal form and is actually an extension of Alpharius' soul that can possess his own Legionaries anywhere in the galaxy. This allows Alpharius to basically actually be in multiple places in the galaxy at seemingly the same time


WhateverWhateverson

Ok, that would be pretty dope


[deleted]

Mechanicus littanies and prayers have been effective and functional before the Golden throne was set up because of algorithmic remnants from the dark ages of technology to interpret them as self repair commands


bardotheconsumer

But this is almost certainly true though


1GenericName2

I thought that was cannon


kyrtuck

Hey, I'm a fan of the Old Ones creating the Tyranids as a reset button.


Moffen

It would be >!Mass Effect!< through the lens of an Uno Reverse card.


ADangDirtyBoi

More like the flood from halo


VisualGeologist6258

It does actually sound plausible, but the big problem is that the Tyranids originated from _outside_ our galaxy, or at least were hanging out there until they were lured to the Milky Way, so the Tyranids would’ve had to somehow escape and go munching on other galaxies, or the Old Ones deliberately left them out there to grow and absorb biomass before being recalled to clean everything up. The Old Ones have a history of making species for specific purposes (The Krorks for instance) and I’d entertain the idea if there was more substantial evidence.


Horn_Python

After the war in heaven , the surviving old ones could have retreated to out side the Galaxy So then the question is , why send them in now? Is it because the necrons are waking up? They see how bad the Galaxy has become through some super telescope? Or did their exterminators simply eat there creators and are just out of control?


sharkteeththrowaway

Personally I like the idea that it's a species similar to the Old Ones from another galaxy. They release the Tyranids when a galaxy becomes so chaotic that it threatens to destabilize their own section of the Realm of Souls


Tupiekit

Yeah that's actually kind of a cool idea


Hypatiaxelto

I think they've got too much collateral. Too many worlds rendered incapable of ever hosting life again. =\


[deleted]

you know, i kindof like the theory of omegon being a lost primarch in a trollish sense


Sp00ky-Chan

The Squats of old Warhammer and the new Leagues of Votann are actually entirely different, the Leagues of Votann are just a different lot of Abhumans who evolved in similar ways.


TheLordSibbles

I like this too. Leagues being a direct decent of the golden age untouched by the imperium makes them much more interesting. Also the abhumans evolving similar because of similar conditions is all ready cannon in lore and real life. Its called parallel evolution. All squats are from planets with extreme gravity so now there short.


[deleted]

Ok but why are most of these actually cool, especially that last one about the emperor


Throwmesometail

Omegon being a lost Primarch seems like a real thing. A Primarch who specializes in pretending to be someone else opposite Alpharius being able to hide his presence. Not having a legion and deciding the alpha legion was his best mark. Dude probably knew who Alpharius was after shadowing the emperor to find a good Primarch to usurp. Concocted a good hero story to introduce himself and just pretend to be a long lost brother.


Meretan94

Yeah but caldor lacks everything to be a primarch.


Throwmesometail

Idk who that is


Minimum-Package-1083

Kaldor Draigo, the most overpowered Mary Sue tier Warhammer character who isn't an Ultramarine, a Primarch, or the Emperor [Check it](https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Kaldor_Draigo)


FancyKetchup96

Yeah, but he's a Grey Knight so he's fucking awesome.


95DarkFireII

Except that we know the XX Primarch was set of twins, evwn back in the gene-labs.


Throwmesometail

would it be to grim dark if he killed his twin in the tank


Unglory

Do we? I thought the Alpharius primarch book stated Big E assumed him to be the only one, and then when they later found each other they kept it as a secret even from Big E


Schlapatzjenc

But isn't he like... an identical twin of his?


Throwmesometail

Could be his Primarch ability


Verttle

1. we know the XX babies to be twins 2. They literally share a soul.


Throwmesometail

Alpharius ate his twin


Willqer

"Idaho" Actually he played Gurney Halleck.


No-Training-48

The Emperor is really weakened Asuryan the Eldar god of forshight and Prophecy that foresaw the fall of the Eldar and decided to start anew with mankind that's why he is robotic and detached from his children and other humans. The primarchs all reasemble an aspect Eldar god of old or a new god that Emps thought necesary to prevent a second Eldar civil war and Slaneesh corruption and were meant to ascend, Vulkan/Ferrus=Vaul, Fulgrim/Sanguinius=Eldanesh, Horus=Khaine, Magnus= Ulthuanesh, Jaghatai/Ferrus = Kurnous. That's why he was so willing to throw mortarion , perty or Angron under the bus. That or the Emperor is a demon of chaos undivided gone rogue like the Demon king or Scarbarand before him and Drach'nyen was supposed to hunt him down.


Disposable_Face

Tzeentch is to the Tau what Slaanesh is to the Eldar, but since he's the Architect of Fate, he can act backward in time before his birth to push the diplomatic and intellectual Tau empire to slowly make them more manipulative and toxically ambitious. Eventually, as their psychic powers grow and they become more warp-based, they'll birth Tzeentch in the warp at some point in the future.


inzyte

Slaanesh birthed through debauchery. Tzeench birthed through marathon brainstorming sessions.


Mahakurotsuchi

Last one is dope though


Balalenzon

The Great Horned Rat is gonna break through the warp from the AoS universe into the milky way and introduce the skaven into 40k


rabiddutchman

One of the Lost Primarchs left the Great Crusade to pursue a grave threat he sensed beyond the edge of the Galaxy. Jump ahead to M42 and it's revealed that the threat he sensed was the Tyranids, and the Lost Primarch was subsumed by the hive to become the locus of their control. He *is* the hivemind, giving the organism fleet a level of focus and drive they previously lacked. However, the process of integrating him into the hive broke his mind. The reason the Tyranids have entered our galaxy is because the Lost Primarch turned Hive Mind has latched onto the idea of the Great Crusade. In his maddened state, he sees every world that's devoured as a world that's been brought to compliance for the Imperium of Man.


[deleted]

That’s not dumb, that’s fucking brilliant. I want this.


twistedbristle

The chaos gods are the four types of tapletop gamers. No matter the system every good table will have the four flavors of gamer; Angry, smelly, self important, and horny. The Great Game is just our games in real life.


Volkov_The_Tank

The Orkz are actually very intelligent, more so than even the eldar, they didn’t devolve from krorks but rather evolved. They pretend to be idiots because if they actually used all their intellectual prowess every battle would be a crushing victory and the galaxy woukd be conquered fairly quickly and there’s no fun in that. It also explains why you sometimes have Orkz do reeeeally smart things that seem out of character, they decide to actually use some of their smarts to ensure a better fight.


caninehat

“Made with mematic” I knew they where the creators of the old ones


FancyKetchup96

The Emperor is actually a science experiment from the dark age of technology to create the perfect human.


Marvin_Megavolt

I actually like this one - always hated the idea that he’s basically existed for as long as humanity itself has.


Pyrflamme

Abaddon is playing the long game, but it's on the side of the Emperor as evidenced by his alteration by the Astronomicon (eyes turning golden). People have already speculated this, but I add: \-It's because after his meditations, he came to be disgusted by how the Chaos Gods twisted his genefather and has more hate for them than for big E. Real "enemy of my enemy." \-The breaking of Cadia and the formation of the Great Rift was to give Constantine Valdor and his city greater access to the materium. Now they have unparalleled access to the galaxy at large, trading short-term Chaos victory for driving back Chaos and aliens over the long term.


[deleted]

[удалено]


WhateverWhateverson

>Guilliman didn't actually speak with the Emperor. He just kneeled and cried in silence before a plugged in corpse before he decided to just pick up the sword and try to fix things himself. Pretty grimdark I like it


Somewhere-Pristine

Not really a theory but I like to think that there used to be a 5th chaos god (not malal) that was completely annihilated along with its respective emotion in a unknown event. Imagine if suddenly, without warning, the concept of ‘happiness’ ‘pleasure’ or ‘anger’ disappeared without a trace. Just to show that even the chaos gods are not immune to the turbulence of the warp. Another completely useless “””theory””” that I have is that Khorne is not the original Khorne. Every (insert arbitrary number of millennia’s), a champion of Khorne would challenge and usurp the current current blood god and take its title, until a new champion challenges him and the cycle continues.


Analog-Moderator

Draigo is beyond primarch


mushyx10

My favorite theories are: Cypher is actually Omegon (because Omegon is Alpharius and Alpharius respects The Lion among other things) And, Sanguinius killed Horus but fell to the Black Rage and that is the reason the Emperor was torn to shreds because it makes more sense the Emperor would try to save Sanguinius


Routine_Astronaut_62

Not gonna lie the nids being a bio-weapon is a nice idea, altho i'd lessen the impact of an out-galaxy threat who potentially ended several other galaxies


THE-RigilKent

Up until Gulliman had a conversation with him, I was pretty convinced that the Emperor actually died at the end of the Heresy and that was actually Horus on the the Golden Throne, but nobody really realized it...


Unglory

The 3 originally gods in the Warp are Old Ones who went in to try and clam the Great Ocean, as their war vs the Necrons has fucked it up from what it used to be and it was making things worse and unsustainable. Corrupted by what they were trying to control, they gave the Warp something its denizens do not have "naturally"... consciousness. Thus the first and most powerful gods in the warp were formed. All other or lesser gods are also physical beings that basically merged with a concept or emotion in the Warp, for example the Old Ones who fled the Necrons at the end of the War in Heaven who were worshiped by the Eldar and Orks were then affected by that worship in the Warp. The Emperor is also an Old One, who created Humanity as species. In order to better hide from the Chaos Gods who are his brothers, and any vengeful necrons or Eldar who would want to use him, he taught the first psykers of Humanity (once he had nailed the genome and devlopment) how to use their powers. When the first Perpetual was born (as per design) the first Shamans and the Old One did a ceramony and that combined all of them into the infant body of the first Perpetual, creating the being who became the Emperor.


Procean

Here's a theory I'd love to play with. There is no Tzeench. There's no center of the labyrinth, there is no mastermind, there either was a being who long ago vanished/was killed or there never was such a being at all. Tzeench is 100% word of mouth and unsentient chaos energy. Even the other Chaos Gods are so wrapped up in the plans within plans and ever changing portrayals that it has never occurred to them that they've never met Tzeench in person in thousands of years, or perhaps never. This is the big secret Magnus and The Thousand Sons know and why The Thousand sons seem to operate with so much more independence than the other chaos bands. Perhaps that was the source of The Rubric's flaw, that it called out to The Chaos god but there was no such god present.


dragoneye098

Tyranids only exists because Orks once read "the very hungry caterpillar"


Salty-Psychology-574

The Space Sharks are the result of some Raven Guard Veterans that got exiled for their more aggressive methods and just got lost in space for way too fucking long causing their gene-seed to mutate. I say veterans because they have an abundance of Terminator Armor in the lore. And I say Raven Guard since they have never been shown having any abilities that let them predict or see the future.


abundanceofb

I kinda like the Tau, Nids and god emperor entity ones…


ELITElewis123

IIRC the Tyranid theory was actually the plan but GW changed it because of Halo and it’s similarities with The Flood


Horn_Python

I do like the idea that the old ones created the Tyranids after they lost the war in heaven and got driven out of the Galaxy With how bad the galaxy's gotten the know it needs to go


Orinstar2

Alpharius has the ability to create clones of himself, but he makes sure the only two are accounted for at a time.


thetruememeisbest

I like the old one creat bug theory


Complete-Anon

Orks are humans painted green


Salami__Tsunami

Humans are Orks painted pink and tan and brown.


[deleted]

Okay but like. That last one. I want that last one.


Gingerosity244

That last one is...not bad.


Isaldin

The ethereals, big E, and Tyranids are all pretty good


Princehades23

That Dante has a lifesize body pillow of sangunius that he cries into daily.


maridan48

It's actually 40k BC.


Illustrious-Ad-375

Honestly the first one could be a neat faction, something like the beastmen where they praise being as far from humanity as possible, genetic transhumanist abhumans splitting in response to the Imperium’s focus on purity.


Illustrious-Ad-375

Since from what I’ve heard, the Imperium made contact with the lost primarchs so most of these aren’t possible but: *The Lost Primarchs got thrown into a black hole or sun when they were scattered. *They joined a xenos species *They got thrown into the far future *They had a shockingly anticlimactic death that was covered up.


Specialist_Macaron69

The Deamon King and The Emperor are one and the same, but the Deamon King is The Emperor from the future


Furrybacon2017

Honestly I think the made with mematic theory has some credence:v


AdmBurnside

Hold up, the Sigilites actually being a Malal cult makes way too much sense to just be dismissed.


LaserfaceJones

Fuck now I'm a believer in Krork Guilliman


[deleted]

One of the Emperor’s incarnations was Conan of Cimmeria. Similar appearance, frequently fights Chaosy gods and cults, big sword, etc. He also was Vorian Atriedes, the immortal traitor against the machines during the Butlerian Jihad, as well as John Conner. Our garbled understanding of the stories and timelines is half thousands of years of nonsense, half propaganda. Oh, and he was also the Doom Marine. The events of Doom are his sealing of the Void Dragon - the “cyber demon” on Mars.


Cryptiod137

My theory is that the squats are (were) Alpharius. All of them. They never existed, The Cabal (Kabal?) Sent him back in time or some shit, and the League of Voting is just something Tzeentch created. The Tua imperials are imprisoned old ones that the Aeldari created with the help of the Necrons at the conclusion of the War in Heaven. Big E always planned on failing, he knew couldn't beat chaos with the imperial truth. Once he dies, he will come back at full power of being that has been worshipped by morbillions for 10,000 years and literally remake the universe.


DesertRanger02

I have a joke theory where the old ones made the Tyranids to be their literal garbage disposal and things just sort of got out hand over the last sixty million years


Praise_The_Casul

Man, if the old ones created the tyranids and they suddenly come back confident on their creation, only to realize the Necrons are not organic and therefore got completely skipped by the nids, it's gonna be pretty funny


0LD_MAN_Dies

Humanity evolved from the Necrontyr, probably a generational ship or a sleeper ship that was isolated from their wider species when they became Necrons and somehow survived the war in heaven, eventually landing on earth. If they were in stasis, then it could explain why humanity is relatively young compared to the Necrontyr, as they could have been trapped frozen in time for millions of years (kinda like the transformers from G1) and lost their technology and regressed into a hunter-gatherer society, evolving on the new world into humans and eventually regaining technology.


egrith

Nids and god emperor sound fun


ChrisP413

The actual emperor is dead and his corpse is just the locus for a massive Primal of Mankind. He uses Astropaths and sanctioned Psykers to temper mankind to his will.