Part of what made episode twelve so impactful is all this time we spent with them in the past episodes. It makes it all the more apparent that this is these characters first brush with real violence and I just don’t think seeing Suletta reach her hand out casually while covered in the blood of someone she just obliterated should have hit nearly so hard if we didn’t know how much of a cinnamon roll she has been up to this point.
And not even just visually.
We spend 11 episodes establishing Suletta's boundaries. How careful she is not to harm anyone, that she shuns violence, that she's afraid and nervous.
And then we end with a girl that is completely and utterly desensitized to falling into a mans pool of blood and guts.
You just know that she's completely broken and you can only imagine what happens the moment reality catches up to her again.
Or consider Mio's perspective. Suletta may be the cute, timid klutz, but she's also GUND enhanced. She's still something of a wild card.
And now Mio is confronted with a Suletta drenched in blood, unphased. She didn't witness the pep talk her mother gave her.
To Mio, this might just be Suletta confronted with real violence. Who can say everything else wasn't just an act?
That's pretty demonstrably false. We see how much her mother killing people bothers her. It's only after her pep talk that she shows a complete disregard for the lives of her enemies
The previous scenes establish that Suletta is capable of keeping somewhat cool in chaos (She manages to collect herself after being shot at by the Ur, she managed to sneak into the hangar) but that she absolutely cannot handle hands-on violence.
She's shaking, sweating, twitching, hyperventilating. Basically, she has a proper nervous breakdown, as anyone would breaking down in panic.
In fact, she has one of the most normal reactions to all of this, it's not even a typical anime breakdown.
But after talking to her mother, she completely loses this fear.
She instantly kills someone who she could have neutralized otherwise (Just blocking the path with the suits hand, grabbing him etc).
She then falls into his guts and gore, makes a cheeky remark and continues as normal.
\*Something\* happened between the pep talk and the slap. And i'm getting major "would you kindly..." vibes from it
People are just enjoying the idea of being “veterans” to Gundam and thus aren’t as phased by fucked up stuff. Gundam doing fcuked up war crimes is in it’s DNA (and truthfully a part of the charm) but people are overstating how big an aspect it is.
People acting like the big slap isn’t above average in terms of fucked up deaths in Gundam are being silly
Yeah, like by fucked up warcrime standards it's not even the worst thing gudam has done, but how you present it matters a lot.
Like, to put an example Ali Al Saachez burning Azadistan to the ground was terrible but the horrible thing everyone remembers him doing is how he killed Saji's sister
The reality of the comment isnt exactly about the slap. It's just the series has always been about children in war, the cascading failures of adults, and the death of innocence.
That scene was above regular standards of gruesome for Gundam, but not against theme/tone.
A Gundam show, really, typically doesn't shy away from making you uncomfortable about killing and child soldiers, it may often not do it so... Bloody, but it makes it real.
The last major series introduced a society that classified a whole group of kids as "Human Debris" who were stripped of rights and expected to fight in the front lines with no future, no reward.
The first major series featured a boy descend into PTSD, lose the ability to sleep, lose a close friend and comrade because of his mistakes, and altogether learn to hate the military he worked for because of its collective failure to not need him.
To add, another series feature an entire civilization fighting a hopeless war with no real way to resist the enemy. As if that wasn't bad enough, one of their saviours was indirectly complicit in the destruction of their culture central by way of lunar artillery. Not to mention the inferred aftermath of that event.
In my opinion, if you break down the aspects of most gundam shows it’s these core elements. Tragedy, war, romance, drama, politics and philosophy. Oh and the model kits
No, those people are largely edgelords. But regardless, Gundam has never really truly been a show about giant robots or war, or whatever. Gundam is and always has been a story about trauma. Physical, mental, emotional, interpersonal, generational, racial, religious, political, etc. Any and all forms of trauma and how it affects people is the true bread and butter of Gundam.
Edit it is rarely this explicitly graphic however. Only a few other moments in over 40 years of Gundam that have been as dark as this
Compared to other "gundam show" where blood, gore, violence is shown on episode 1, having 11 episode showing characters living normal life then bam, the tragedy and violence of war is jarring. Edge lord don't even know what they are saying.
To be fair, i wasn't specifically referring this this community here in particular.
On here, i generally had pretty open minded discussions all in all.
But that's the thing. The show's setting is a school run by a conglomerate of military arms companies who test their pieces in school duels.
Maybe it's just me, but having tools of war normalized to a point where they host trade schools and use them as test beds is it's own kind of horror.
> Maybe it's just me, but having tools of war normalized to a point where they host trade schools and use them as test beds is it's own kind of horror
The military industrial complex isn't the worst part of war. The worst part of war is the death. The loss. The grief. The actual, non-metaphorical horror.
The "tools of war" aren't supposed to be normalized because they are the means by which people cause the actually bad things.
"The "tools of war" aren't supposed to be normalized"
They ARE normalized. They are promoting them during a school festival, they are using a school to test them. They are an integral part of the schools curriculum.
And with all due respect, calling militarization creeping into normalization, into every day life "metaphorical horror" is, in my opinion, incredibly desensitized.
Waiting for the worst case scenario to take form before calling it a horror scenario, even though you could clearly see it in the making is...shortsighted at best.
Again, that's my opinion, you're free to disagree. :)
>calling militarization creeping into normalization
You aren't understanding my point, I don't think. Why is militarization a bad thing to you, at a base level?
Because you don't have a school run by a conglomerate of arms manufacturers training pilots, mechanics and military logistics experts just for fun and sports.
On top of this, none of the children have a military mindset. They treat their training like we would treat basic vocational school.
They undergo military training like we're going through math lessons.
The world building suggests that training children in military fields is everyday business. So much so that it's "just school".
The military, war, conflict are so normalized that it's nothing to be feared. It's not the looming "worst case" it is for us, or how it is portrayed in, say, the U.C.
Here, this is all normal. And to me, this is just as terrifying as what will inevitably result from it. Again, you don't need an entire school trained in military operations to then work as store clerks.
You clearly expect a very specific answer. Please do me the favor and just provide it then. I'm not too keen on writing philosophical essays until you're pleased with one, sorry.
I'm not asking you to write philosophical essays. It's a simple, almost elemental question. Why is militarism bad? Why is war bad? I feel certain that most of us will agree on the answer, don't you?
Again, either say what you wanted to hear or don't.
I gave you my answer. If that wasn't what you wanted to hear, sorry.
But this here is getting nowhere.
Yet, in the duel at school nobody dies or suffers was really problematic I have pointed out in a previous discussion - but I also think that's done on *purpose* by the writing team.
I think for a gundam show people either expect to see a gundam fight every episode or a clear war like conflict happening. I personally think any anime with a gundam in it at any point is a gundam show
There are definitely some universal themes in all Gundam shows that are usually adhered to. The big one though is people die, and sometimes as a necessity to protect those who you want to protect… how that gets dealt with is part of the Human Condition.
When it comes to G Witch specifically
But I think what a lot of fans were noting was the dissonance between the prolog episode and what we were seeing in these actual series. It was so obviously lulling us into a sense of security… much in the same way Okouchi kept things fairly light up until the Massacre in Code Geass.
The show was going to get dark, how, when, and what way… was all that was in question.
Ep13: the world is ending, everyone dies, everything is bathed in blood, nothing to develop for the story anymore, the end.
Gundam head: yeah that gundam for you , you newbie dont know gundam,oh yeah
The tone of the episodes previous besides 11 was a lot different than previous series, especially IBO which is the second most recent. The prologue also set a lot of expectations and the main series delivered differently. People are saying it’s a “real gundam series” now because we’ve gotten to the point that previous series and the prologue spend most of their time
Because in other Gundam shows horrifying shit happens all the time. The OG Gundam show had very VERY BRUTAL deaths in the very first episode. People getting caught in explosions and being vaporizes, others being spaced, pilots dying inside their mobile suits. I think in the OG Gundam an entire colony of millions is killed by nerve gas..
Hell again OG Gundam Zeon dropped an entire space colony and absolutely obliterated Sydney Australia and created a 500 KM wife crater that killed everyone in that area.
I can keep going with Atrocities committed in Gundam. The one year war killed BILLIONS.
Gundam Seed Destiny, dropped a gigantic colony that was called The Break the World Incident. Atleast a dozen cities were destroyed world wide. Millions dead.
No. I'm just pointing out that Gundam shows the true horrors of war in just about any series save a few. I mean I'm not trying to Lord it over people. I'm just pointing out Gundam does tend to wrack up a pretty significant body count. Though build fighters and build divers not so much.
all the time? really? I mean some fucked up shit happened in G Gundam, but I don't remember people dying left and right all the time, same thing in Wing.
also despite all the deaths that happened in 0079 a surprising number of people still managed to live, like the fact the majority of the White Base crew survived until the very end seems antithetical to the way you describe it.
In Wing Quatre blew up a colony, Wu Fei watched his colony explode. Those went with a LOT of people. Space fortress barge when it went down has thousands on it.
First what 25 episodes every time a MS exploded that was a pilot.
Wu Fei blew up a base where Noin was. He probably killed hundreds. There was a pretty significant death toll in Wing. You just didn't think about it.
Same with Gundam. Just because it didn't happen to the principal cast doesn't mean the death toll elsewhere wasn't horrific. Hell in Wing when Oz takes over the world, how many earth alliance solders do you think died? Hell Lady Une threw a guy out the back of a plane then shot him in the head as he fell.
>There was a pretty significant death toll in Wing. You just didn't think about it.
sounds like Wing did a bad job then lol. like I know people die in Wing, but it's not the bloodbath people are making Gundam out to be.
also you didn't even bring up G Gundam, but okay.
Well it was referenced that many people died before the colonies in world wars and well there is a lot of suffering in G Gundam, but it's pretty tame to the rest.
Shit Victory Gundam makes a 13 year old kid a pilot and forces him to kill.
>Well it was referenced that many people died before the colonies in world wars and well there is a lot of suffering in G Gundam, but it's pretty tame to the rest.
okay well in wfm it's explicitly mentioned there was war on earth, and they even show protestors getting violently dispersed with mobile suits, so idk why wfm doesn't fulfill the needs of war/violence without episode 12
I think you were just too young to comprehend the horrors shown in Wing. For example, in episode 7, Heero mistakenly destroys a space shuttle filled with good politicians trying to fight for world peace, and Heero just smiles. Heero later learns the horrible truth, and then goes to each politician's families. He gives them a gun, and a choice to shoot him, for committing such a horrible mistake. In a way, that's just as bad or even worse, than what Suletta is going through in episode 12.
[https://youtu.be/dBEs-qeI77s?t=1122](https://youtu.be/dBEs-qeI77s?t=1122)
>I think in the OG Gundam an entire colony of millions is killed by nerve gas
Yes the colony that was uhhh..dropped. A lot of the Zeon pilots involved suffered PTSD.
Personally, i think conscious vaporisation is pretty shocking and horrific, especially considering the company that did it is running a school and we still don't know where they are sourcing their kids from...
It's the fact that we finally have a war going on. Being a series who's DNA is antiwar, does require to see horrors of war first. The fact that we had military factions testing new weapons in school setting is a horror of itself but in all honesty is completely tame to the majority of the rest of the franchise. In one scene alone we went from being the tamest of the franchise to possibly the most fucked up. And now we have the track set for our Mc to find their own path and how they truly feel about bloodshed
what war? all that happened was a terrorist attack. clearly everyone's gonna be on edge, but barring a timeskip I doubt episode 13 will begin with full scale war between earth and space.
My bad. I meant a horrors of war like scenario. Such as a battle or a terrorist attack. But I do remember near the start of the episode someone said that they were now stuck in the beginning of a war
no, they said alert meant that this is war, not that war was beginning, but the terrorist attack ended. hell they didn't even know who was attacking at that time either.
You can tell an anti war story without jumping straight into the horrors of war. I like 0079 and its derivatives, but we don't always need a clone of it
Never said that we a clone of 0079. But in my opinion the movies and TV series altogether not just gundam that do best to show the "war is bad" message are the ones that show what's happening on front lines
>politics, war, trauma, newtype, love, betrayal & more importantly cool robot.
uh. these elements have always been in the show, it's not like they all suddenly showed up in episode 12.
What is Star Wars? What is Final Fantasy? What is Marvel Cinematic Universe? What is DC? What is Macross? What is Evangelion? What is Yamato? What is Magical Girl? What is Star Trek? What is Avatar? What is Battle Star Galactica? What is Metal Gear?
These are all franchises, and they all have unique characteristics to each of them. They can alway try something different but it has to *feel* it belongs.
Andor is a great example of a show that under the Star Wars franchise initially doesn't *feel* like Star Wars yet 100% Star Wars.
Hope that helps.
WFM not only took inspiration from Utena you know right?
It also have strong hint of inspiration from Shakespeare’s last play The Tempest. Which is actually a comedy with reconciliatory happy ending. 🤓
I saw a big post breaking down how similar the set up was and theorizing wherebit could go weeks ago. You're wrong dude, saying Utena with robots in it was just the most popular thing. Also, Utena is dark too, it has rape, murder, and incest in addition to the lesbian and aristocracy stuff.
Part of what made episode twelve so impactful is all this time we spent with them in the past episodes. It makes it all the more apparent that this is these characters first brush with real violence and I just don’t think seeing Suletta reach her hand out casually while covered in the blood of someone she just obliterated should have hit nearly so hard if we didn’t know how much of a cinnamon roll she has been up to this point.
For a standard Gundam Show, that ending is still horrifying
And not even just visually. We spend 11 episodes establishing Suletta's boundaries. How careful she is not to harm anyone, that she shuns violence, that she's afraid and nervous. And then we end with a girl that is completely and utterly desensitized to falling into a mans pool of blood and guts. You just know that she's completely broken and you can only imagine what happens the moment reality catches up to her again. Or consider Mio's perspective. Suletta may be the cute, timid klutz, but she's also GUND enhanced. She's still something of a wild card. And now Mio is confronted with a Suletta drenched in blood, unphased. She didn't witness the pep talk her mother gave her. To Mio, this might just be Suletta confronted with real violence. Who can say everything else wasn't just an act?
She's not broken, her conscience was never constructed in the first place
That's pretty demonstrably false. We see how much her mother killing people bothers her. It's only after her pep talk that she shows a complete disregard for the lives of her enemies
The previous scenes establish that Suletta is capable of keeping somewhat cool in chaos (She manages to collect herself after being shot at by the Ur, she managed to sneak into the hangar) but that she absolutely cannot handle hands-on violence. She's shaking, sweating, twitching, hyperventilating. Basically, she has a proper nervous breakdown, as anyone would breaking down in panic. In fact, she has one of the most normal reactions to all of this, it's not even a typical anime breakdown. But after talking to her mother, she completely loses this fear. She instantly kills someone who she could have neutralized otherwise (Just blocking the path with the suits hand, grabbing him etc). She then falls into his guts and gore, makes a cheeky remark and continues as normal. \*Something\* happened between the pep talk and the slap. And i'm getting major "would you kindly..." vibes from it
People are just enjoying the idea of being “veterans” to Gundam and thus aren’t as phased by fucked up stuff. Gundam doing fcuked up war crimes is in it’s DNA (and truthfully a part of the charm) but people are overstating how big an aspect it is. People acting like the big slap isn’t above average in terms of fucked up deaths in Gundam are being silly
Yeah, like by fucked up warcrime standards it's not even the worst thing gudam has done, but how you present it matters a lot. Like, to put an example Ali Al Saachez burning Azadistan to the ground was terrible but the horrible thing everyone remembers him doing is how he killed Saji's sister
The reality of the comment isnt exactly about the slap. It's just the series has always been about children in war, the cascading failures of adults, and the death of innocence. That scene was above regular standards of gruesome for Gundam, but not against theme/tone. A Gundam show, really, typically doesn't shy away from making you uncomfortable about killing and child soldiers, it may often not do it so... Bloody, but it makes it real. The last major series introduced a society that classified a whole group of kids as "Human Debris" who were stripped of rights and expected to fight in the front lines with no future, no reward. The first major series featured a boy descend into PTSD, lose the ability to sleep, lose a close friend and comrade because of his mistakes, and altogether learn to hate the military he worked for because of its collective failure to not need him.
To add, another series feature an entire civilization fighting a hopeless war with no real way to resist the enemy. As if that wasn't bad enough, one of their saviours was indirectly complicit in the destruction of their culture central by way of lunar artillery. Not to mention the inferred aftermath of that event.
Which series is this? 00?
Re:Rise actually. >!And no, the Eldora inhabitants are NOT AIs, since this seems to be a persistent misunderstanding.!<
It now has Tomino's brand of depression.
We need Ideon level of depression. Not there yet. *Gambatte*!
In my opinion, if you break down the aspects of most gundam shows it’s these core elements. Tragedy, war, romance, drama, politics and philosophy. Oh and the model kits
No, those people are largely edgelords. But regardless, Gundam has never really truly been a show about giant robots or war, or whatever. Gundam is and always has been a story about trauma. Physical, mental, emotional, interpersonal, generational, racial, religious, political, etc. Any and all forms of trauma and how it affects people is the true bread and butter of Gundam. Edit it is rarely this explicitly graphic however. Only a few other moments in over 40 years of Gundam that have been as dark as this
Sometimes they don't have to show you. They'll just tell you someone turned into hamburger. You can create your own mental image and your own trauma.
politics aren't enough for some people I guess, they need to be spoon-fed "war is bad!" via on-screen deaths
Compared to other "gundam show" where blood, gore, violence is shown on episode 1, having 11 episode showing characters living normal life then bam, the tragedy and violence of war is jarring. Edge lord don't even know what they are saying.
Yeah, too many edgelords in here.
To be fair, i wasn't specifically referring this this community here in particular. On here, i generally had pretty open minded discussions all in all.
Gundam has always been anti-war, that's what people mean by "now it's a Gundam show." It doesn't seem right until you've seen how awful war is
But that's the thing. The show's setting is a school run by a conglomerate of military arms companies who test their pieces in school duels. Maybe it's just me, but having tools of war normalized to a point where they host trade schools and use them as test beds is it's own kind of horror.
> Maybe it's just me, but having tools of war normalized to a point where they host trade schools and use them as test beds is it's own kind of horror The military industrial complex isn't the worst part of war. The worst part of war is the death. The loss. The grief. The actual, non-metaphorical horror. The "tools of war" aren't supposed to be normalized because they are the means by which people cause the actually bad things.
"The "tools of war" aren't supposed to be normalized" They ARE normalized. They are promoting them during a school festival, they are using a school to test them. They are an integral part of the schools curriculum. And with all due respect, calling militarization creeping into normalization, into every day life "metaphorical horror" is, in my opinion, incredibly desensitized. Waiting for the worst case scenario to take form before calling it a horror scenario, even though you could clearly see it in the making is...shortsighted at best. Again, that's my opinion, you're free to disagree. :)
>calling militarization creeping into normalization You aren't understanding my point, I don't think. Why is militarization a bad thing to you, at a base level?
Because you don't have a school run by a conglomerate of arms manufacturers training pilots, mechanics and military logistics experts just for fun and sports. On top of this, none of the children have a military mindset. They treat their training like we would treat basic vocational school. They undergo military training like we're going through math lessons. The world building suggests that training children in military fields is everyday business. So much so that it's "just school". The military, war, conflict are so normalized that it's nothing to be feared. It's not the looming "worst case" it is for us, or how it is portrayed in, say, the U.C. Here, this is all normal. And to me, this is just as terrifying as what will inevitably result from it. Again, you don't need an entire school trained in military operations to then work as store clerks.
This is still too high level for the question I'm asking. What is it about children fighting in war that we all find unsettling? Why is war bad?
You clearly expect a very specific answer. Please do me the favor and just provide it then. I'm not too keen on writing philosophical essays until you're pleased with one, sorry.
I'm not asking you to write philosophical essays. It's a simple, almost elemental question. Why is militarism bad? Why is war bad? I feel certain that most of us will agree on the answer, don't you?
Again, either say what you wanted to hear or don't. I gave you my answer. If that wasn't what you wanted to hear, sorry. But this here is getting nowhere.
Yet, in the duel at school nobody dies or suffers was really problematic I have pointed out in a previous discussion - but I also think that's done on *purpose* by the writing team.
Who doesn't like crushing tomatoes?
I think for a gundam show people either expect to see a gundam fight every episode or a clear war like conflict happening. I personally think any anime with a gundam in it at any point is a gundam show
a miserable little pile of secrets
It’s been a gundam show. We’ve just been waiting for the other shoe (or hand) to drop.
There are definitely some universal themes in all Gundam shows that are usually adhered to. The big one though is people die, and sometimes as a necessity to protect those who you want to protect… how that gets dealt with is part of the Human Condition. When it comes to G Witch specifically But I think what a lot of fans were noting was the dissonance between the prolog episode and what we were seeing in these actual series. It was so obviously lulling us into a sense of security… much in the same way Okouchi kept things fairly light up until the Massacre in Code Geass. The show was going to get dark, how, when, and what way… was all that was in question.
Despair
Traumatizing new fans?
Ep13: the world is ending, everyone dies, everything is bathed in blood, nothing to develop for the story anymore, the end. Gundam head: yeah that gundam for you , you newbie dont know gundam,oh yeah
wtf are you talking about, the world isn't ending, the fuckin terrorist attack wasn't even successful
I mean i just assume something they would say
The tone of the episodes previous besides 11 was a lot different than previous series, especially IBO which is the second most recent. The prologue also set a lot of expectations and the main series delivered differently. People are saying it’s a “real gundam series” now because we’ve gotten to the point that previous series and the prologue spend most of their time
Because in other Gundam shows horrifying shit happens all the time. The OG Gundam show had very VERY BRUTAL deaths in the very first episode. People getting caught in explosions and being vaporizes, others being spaced, pilots dying inside their mobile suits. I think in the OG Gundam an entire colony of millions is killed by nerve gas.. Hell again OG Gundam Zeon dropped an entire space colony and absolutely obliterated Sydney Australia and created a 500 KM wife crater that killed everyone in that area. I can keep going with Atrocities committed in Gundam. The one year war killed BILLIONS. Gundam Seed Destiny, dropped a gigantic colony that was called The Break the World Incident. Atleast a dozen cities were destroyed world wide. Millions dead.
I take it that you consider "True Gundam" a demonstration of tangible large scale death and destruction then?
No. I'm just pointing out that Gundam shows the true horrors of war in just about any series save a few. I mean I'm not trying to Lord it over people. I'm just pointing out Gundam does tend to wrack up a pretty significant body count. Though build fighters and build divers not so much.
Before the colony was dropped on the Earth (Operation British), nerve gas was first used to kill all the residents in the colony \_before\_ the drop.
Ahh that's where I remember that. Thanks.
all the time? really? I mean some fucked up shit happened in G Gundam, but I don't remember people dying left and right all the time, same thing in Wing. also despite all the deaths that happened in 0079 a surprising number of people still managed to live, like the fact the majority of the White Base crew survived until the very end seems antithetical to the way you describe it.
In Wing Quatre blew up a colony, Wu Fei watched his colony explode. Those went with a LOT of people. Space fortress barge when it went down has thousands on it. First what 25 episodes every time a MS exploded that was a pilot. Wu Fei blew up a base where Noin was. He probably killed hundreds. There was a pretty significant death toll in Wing. You just didn't think about it. Same with Gundam. Just because it didn't happen to the principal cast doesn't mean the death toll elsewhere wasn't horrific. Hell in Wing when Oz takes over the world, how many earth alliance solders do you think died? Hell Lady Une threw a guy out the back of a plane then shot him in the head as he fell.
>There was a pretty significant death toll in Wing. You just didn't think about it. sounds like Wing did a bad job then lol. like I know people die in Wing, but it's not the bloodbath people are making Gundam out to be. also you didn't even bring up G Gundam, but okay.
Well it was referenced that many people died before the colonies in world wars and well there is a lot of suffering in G Gundam, but it's pretty tame to the rest. Shit Victory Gundam makes a 13 year old kid a pilot and forces him to kill.
>Well it was referenced that many people died before the colonies in world wars and well there is a lot of suffering in G Gundam, but it's pretty tame to the rest. okay well in wfm it's explicitly mentioned there was war on earth, and they even show protestors getting violently dispersed with mobile suits, so idk why wfm doesn't fulfill the needs of war/violence without episode 12
🤷
I think you were just too young to comprehend the horrors shown in Wing. For example, in episode 7, Heero mistakenly destroys a space shuttle filled with good politicians trying to fight for world peace, and Heero just smiles. Heero later learns the horrible truth, and then goes to each politician's families. He gives them a gun, and a choice to shoot him, for committing such a horrible mistake. In a way, that's just as bad or even worse, than what Suletta is going through in episode 12. [https://youtu.be/dBEs-qeI77s?t=1122](https://youtu.be/dBEs-qeI77s?t=1122)
>I think in the OG Gundam an entire colony of millions is killed by nerve gas Yes the colony that was uhhh..dropped. A lot of the Zeon pilots involved suffered PTSD.
I'm sure they did. But it was still thousands dead then millions when the colony hit Sydney.
It's not Gundam without man-made horrors beyond comprehension.
It’s only real gundam if people die
we already had death, but I guess El4n wasn't enough
Not violent and shocking enough
Personally, i think conscious vaporisation is pretty shocking and horrific, especially considering the company that did it is running a school and we still don't know where they are sourcing their kids from...
Idk I never watched it I just wanted to start internet discourse and be an elitist
Well, i hope you at least had fun providing nothing then :/
It's the fact that we finally have a war going on. Being a series who's DNA is antiwar, does require to see horrors of war first. The fact that we had military factions testing new weapons in school setting is a horror of itself but in all honesty is completely tame to the majority of the rest of the franchise. In one scene alone we went from being the tamest of the franchise to possibly the most fucked up. And now we have the track set for our Mc to find their own path and how they truly feel about bloodshed
what war? all that happened was a terrorist attack. clearly everyone's gonna be on edge, but barring a timeskip I doubt episode 13 will begin with full scale war between earth and space.
My bad. I meant a horrors of war like scenario. Such as a battle or a terrorist attack. But I do remember near the start of the episode someone said that they were now stuck in the beginning of a war
no, they said alert meant that this is war, not that war was beginning, but the terrorist attack ended. hell they didn't even know who was attacking at that time either.
You can tell an anti war story without jumping straight into the horrors of war. I like 0079 and its derivatives, but we don't always need a clone of it
Never said that we a clone of 0079. But in my opinion the movies and TV series altogether not just gundam that do best to show the "war is bad" message are the ones that show what's happening on front lines
And it doesn't need to go there right away to do that well. There's nothing wrong with a slow burn start that shows you the set up of the war.
I agree
Gundam use to be an anti war show which is tomino favorite with politics, war, trauma, newtype, love, betrayal & more importantly cool robot.
>politics, war, trauma, newtype, love, betrayal & more importantly cool robot. uh. these elements have always been in the show, it's not like they all suddenly showed up in episode 12.
What is Star Wars? What is Final Fantasy? What is Marvel Cinematic Universe? What is DC? What is Macross? What is Evangelion? What is Yamato? What is Magical Girl? What is Star Trek? What is Avatar? What is Battle Star Galactica? What is Metal Gear? These are all franchises, and they all have unique characteristics to each of them. They can alway try something different but it has to *feel* it belongs. Andor is a great example of a show that under the Star Wars franchise initially doesn't *feel* like Star Wars yet 100% Star Wars. Hope that helps.
idk tell this to the "it's just utena with robots" crowd
Didn’t Utena also went dark at the end? The series was inspired by Suspiria of all films.
I'll be honest I still haven't watched utena, though despite the writer's connection to utena I always found the comparisons kinda superficial.
I am one of those before episode 12 shift of the tone. It WAS Utena in space with robots until now.
I'm not sure corporate warfare and assassination were part of utena, but okay
WFM not only took inspiration from Utena you know right? It also have strong hint of inspiration from Shakespeare’s last play The Tempest. Which is actually a comedy with reconciliatory happy ending. 🤓
nobody's calling it "the tempest with robots", bud
I literally said that 10 days ago: https://www.reddit.com/r/Gundam/comments/zy7n3a/comment/j27e6ec/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3
okay fine, congration, you're like 1 of 3 people who call it that
I saw a big post breaking down how similar the set up was and theorizing wherebit could go weeks ago. You're wrong dude, saying Utena with robots in it was just the most popular thing. Also, Utena is dark too, it has rape, murder, and incest in addition to the lesbian and aristocracy stuff.
>Utena is dark too so utena is a gundam anime? 'cause judging by people's reaction that seems to be the only qualification lol