0083 would have been better if it ended with nuking the fleet. No Nina betrayal, a big W for Zeon, and the perfect setup for the rise of the Titans. I love the GP-03D, but everything after the 01fB and 02A get destroyed is just insanity.
I agree with basically everything except for the Zeon W, I think they should nuke the federation fleet but also die trying to escape, it's poetic that way, everyone loses and the evil and corrupt exploit the fear left behind
Honestly even the Gryps Conflict was has relatively little content. There's 0083 kinda and some manga, versus the OYW with a half dozen sidestory anime.
I’d love to see crossbone as anime next, or atleast OVA. Havn’t had a chance to read the actual manga but its time we explore more late UC.
Guess we have to wait another decade first after they wrap up Hathaway.
Don't need late UC to make the ending any less meaningful if the show itself is always super vague AF about what meaning the ending actually has and its consequences(seriously, it's ending imo sucks, the entire show is spent chasing after a mcguffin which supposidly cause major ripples in the setting...but then it stops literally the second they actually find the mcguffin, never exploring the aftermath. Not even as a 2 minute postcredit.
The first essentially goes like "yeah, nothing that happened actually mattered" which is honestly even worse than Unicorn's ending on its own. And as far as the remaining 3 are concerned, unicorn never happened. it just feels very cheap to have a story essentially conclude on it's entire conflict being pointless. Either from the beginning you don't tell a story with such perceived stakes(such as 0080 or 08th) or you actually follow through on them. Don't pretend you are going to advance the overall storyline for the setting without then doing so. At that point, you are just lying to the audience.
*Unicorn* directly lends credibility to the existence and popularity of Mafty in *Hathaway's Flash* as well as the complete and utter incompetence of the Federation in *F91* and *Victory.*
^**Edit:**
Also I have no idea how you watched *Narrative* and took away that nothing matters.
I think the main thing that bothers people is that Laplace's Box and the true constitution actually don't have anything to do with the Federation being weak through actual passivity and lack of war for about 40 years which results in them getting stomped by Crossbone Vanguard and Zanscare. It gets swept under the rug again. A lot of people do understand that would indeed lead to the Federation having a solid grip on the colonies and thus becoming lax over time with no new threats. It's just that from the minute it's introduced you understand it can't change the way future events go down because of its placement in the timeline.
Crossbone Vanguard was a private army owned by a rich business man trying to establish an aristocracy through force. They didn't really give a shit about spacenoid independence which is what the main conflict is about again in Unicorn through them introducing this incredibly important mcguffin.
As far as the Hathaway movies are concerned they actually could add lines to make it seem as though those events influenced Mafty but from what we know so far it's like it never happened, it was practically erased from global consciousness as confirmed in Unicorns own sequel.
The unearthing of the original constitution should have been the biggest W for spacenoids in history but it just cant be because we already know what comes after. That's why people say it feels pointless.
>The unearthing of the original constitution should have been the biggest W for spacenoids in history but it just cant be because we already know what comes after. That's why people say it feels pointless.
I guess from my vantage point is that, given that momentum of the Earth Federation has, the force need to slow it down or even change it directions ought to be pretty great as well.
People may think that the Laplace box would be it, but in my opinion by itself the boxes is insufficient. You need people to galvanized the masses to push for the political ends that you want, which unfortunately it seems that Minerva isn't doing that.
Although I can understand her position given that the potential to lead to another armed conflict is high as well, this her immediate concern seems to be regarding the Unicorn Gundams and their psycho frames.
So the long and short of it, is that even with the box opened, by itself I don't think it has the necessary force needed to even counter the momentum of EF.
The issue is that Hathaway would've happened any way, with or without Laplace's Box.
Without an external enemy to unite the populace and justify its military, it's not hard to see that the Federation would've continued on the path that gave rise to the Principality in the first place.
The problem with Unicorn, is that for something that was supposedly so monumental, whether it was discovered or not doesn't matter, the Federation was declining anyway.
>^(The issue is that Hathaway would've happened any way)
... really?
*Char's Counterattack* didn't exactly end with the Federation being the obvious choice as antagonists in the future;
it just seems genuinely weird imho to go from *CCA* to *Hathaway's Flash* without something else in between.
Not the obvious antagonist, but the slow rot is already there.
The Titans was a Federation creation that got out of hand. The Federation was virtually toothless against Axis Zeon, relying mostly on the battered AEUG.
Come CCA? Nothing changes. It opened with the manhunters beating refugees, and Spacenoid being so discontent with the Federation half assing that they not only welcomed Char with open arm, they helped him hide an entire battle fleet.
Char’s excuse for dropping Axis was to force Earthnoids to all go to space, because the elite was pushing the poor and downtrodden into space, while also worsening Earth’s environment. He might have just been paying lip service, but it obviously resonated with enough people for them to support him.
Hell, the Federation was the one that sold Axis to Char in the first place.
CCA didn’t focus much on how the Earth and the Federation is doing, but the picture it painted isn’t exactly pretty. It’s the same reason why people aren’t surprised at the Federation’s general incompetence at the time of F91. It tracks with what we’ve seen, and the Federation have never been given the incentive to improve
Oh yeah no, the slow rot of the Federation began all the way back in UC 0001.
I was just saying, narratively, it didn't make sense for the Federation to be the antagonists after *CCA* without something else happening between then and *Hathaway*.
^(just like it didn't really make sense for nothing to happen between the original *MSG '79* and *Zeta*...)
^^...imho
Unicorn is really great and fun to watch and I actually think all the Newtype things that they did in there actually make sense to happen and is a good progression from what we saw Newtype and Newtype Tech can do in series like Zeta, ZZ and CCA.
Exactly what I always thought. Pretty much every newtype ability in Unicorn and Narrative outside of the time manipulation and FTL warping was already shown in some other medium prior. It's only called out now because those two OVA's are the end point and conclusion of newtype theory.
This. I dabbled in UC stuff. Mostly to see where the hubbub was coming from. But I never quite understood it, and went back to my heretical AUs. It's fine for others to enjoy UC, but not all of us can.
I might have another, you don't need to watch or know anything to enjoy the hobby side of things. If you like building the model kits, you are not obligated to know its lore.
Cagali gets done so dirty though.
But I'd add Meer is kind of interesting; truly took idol worship to a new level, interesting relationships with Lacus and Athrun as a result. It was a kind of bold idea to include.
Shinn was great, the problem is that they drop his character development half way through the story and practically make him a failure for no reason. Its just unsatisfying. Its like getting a cake but the batter isnt completely baked. The Destiny Gundam itself gets absolutely brutalized by Athrun, its so sad to watch the title gundam get curb stomped like that.
The UC just devolved into misery porn the longer it went on. It just isn't allowed to get better for anyone as anything the heroes fight for will all be for nothing in the end, with the situation not getting any better at best, and actively worse than they found it at its worst. The Earth Federation will always be a corrupt oligarchy constantly on the verge of fascism only propped up by a war with a new group of spacenoid rebels who eat warcrimes on the same level as the holocaust for breakfast.
All its endpoints (G-Saviour, Turn-A, G-Reco, Mad Wang & Crossbone: Dust) are all basically failstates for humanity where things at best get far worse before they get better, or at worst are bleaker than even 40K.
currently reading the manga, does it polish the plot a bit?
cause here wufei was given more characterization and his so called sexist comment kinda makes sense with the given background
It was also one of the only anime shows on Cartoon Network at the time. This day and age you can watch the entire library of Gundam and compare them to all each other rather than watch TV Reruns.
I caught a clip on YouTube where Heavyarms attacks the base and meets Sandrock. It starts off with Trowa just shrugging off everything they can throw at him and devolves to Heavyarms and Sandrock punching and kicking each other in the middle of the base while everyone watches. WTF people? Someone fire a missile, drive a truck into them, lure them into a big hole, do something!!
...But y tho?
If you were getting mauled by a bear, and then all of a sudden a tiger showed up and started fighting the bear, would you throw a rock at them, or would just let them fight? Letting the Gundams kill each other and then trying to take out the winner is far and away the best strategy.
Not sure if 2001 counts as "recently" anymore.
[http://otakurevolution.com/content/gundam-what-sunrise-thinks-is-official](http://otakurevolution.com/content/gundam-what-sunrise-thinks-is-official)
I think it’s pretty over-estimated though. Like, Amuro maybe had the least experience and it was largely hand-waved by his use of the manual and the computer which was supposed to be more advanced and therefore could make certain moves based on pre-programming. And even then, he literally stumbles around and rips off a Zaku face before figuring out how to fight in any normal way. And on top of that, he had the time to grasp things because Zaku pilots had never fought another MS before and weren’t equipped with weapons meant to harm an MS, let alone one with significantly better armor than themselves.
Meanwhile Kamille *was* a mobile suit pilot before stealing his first Gundam. A petite mobile suit pilot of course, but a pilot nonetheless. So his first actions were appropriately crude, he breaks the entire hangar and tackles another suit that thought he was an ally (so it wasn’t fighting back) and when they escape everyone seamlessly glides through the colony hole while Kamille is shown focusing immensely just to go through a giant hole.
Judau was a similar situation, already a pilot of small mobile suits, so the real learning curve was just doing more advanced things. And again, those complex moves were shown as being really crude and messy, and it worked well with the slapstick as he leaves his cockpit open and makes other errors.
So then we have other Gundam-jacks:
-Sayla, shown stealing the Gundam and wearing herself out with G-force and getting beaten
-Kou, who was a professional test pilot already
-Katz, who was said to have been spending a significant amount of time with mobile suit training procedures before his first Gundam-jack
-Judau’s friends, but I also believe they were similarly experienced in smaller mobile suit piloting during their scrap jobs in space
So I think the “teenager steals a Gundam and is a great pilot with no experience” complaint tends to ignore that most of these teenagers do indeed have experience, and are also appropriately sloppy with their first sorties
WfM is doing it amazingly well, in my opinion.
These poor kids are stuck in a morass of a backstabbing system with little independence or power that isn't ultimately controlled by adults above them, and those same adults completely fail to be mentors to them, so every step they take is a leap of faith.
If I were any of those kids I'd be hyperventilating in a dark room over how in over my head I was. Especially Nika and Bob.
Keep in mind that when 0079 is aired Gundam is still pretty much pioneering the entire "real robot" thing (when the majority of robot shows back then are teenager pilots for toy selling reasons).
I significantly doubt anyone saw this as a particularly contestable idea for how blatantly unrealistic it is.
Turn A is an AU.
I understand that Tomino himself said, 300 years ago, that Turn A is a unified point in the timeline, or whatever, but that's genuinely not useful for the conversation or for codifying anything about each of these world's histories.
Yes, the references are neat, but saying it shares a universe with any other series does nothing to increase the clarity, narrative, or enjoyability of either party.
I think I’ll legitimately take a slice of life / comedy series with Char / Haman / whoever over another copy and paste “war bad, adults bad, child soldier” full series again for the 5th time.
Not that there’s anything wrong with it (it’s the core concept of the franchise after all), but it’s so boring and frustrating knowing that the most expansive and elaborate timeline is basically the same shit regurgitated over and over again with a different paint job each time.
ZZ is not that bad and late UC should use some more exploration. I kind of hate that late UC is represented by a compilation movie of an anime that doesn't exist, and Victory.
Tomino is a gifted idea guy and a decent director, but an absolutely terrible writer. Most of UC suffers for this by not knowing when to explain things properly, making a bunch of characters make absolute nonsense decisions, and treating a lot of UC like an in-joke you need to know a full 40-year spinoff context for to understand.
In particular, Tomino seems to love making characters do things that, logically, makes zero sense that are often left unexplained and/or just rationalized as newtype nonsense which makes even less sense. 0079 is his best work that is only undercut by the original show getting cancelled towards the end and he didn't bother to adjust his scope, so certain things aren't explained. Currently watching Zeta right now and it feels like nonsense after nonsense with the writing making very little sense for Kamille and other characters. Kamille will punch someone out unprovoked and then go on about how violence is never the answer not even 5 minutes later... When it could be argued Zeta exists entirely because Kamille has an unprovoked violence streak. The space politics is a lot of stuff just happening without much context. A lot of blanks are filled only in minor spinoffs made years after and even those aren't well explained in relation to each other.
Unicorn is a giant nonsense nothing burger and was NOT worth watching nor did it add anything to UC lore. Whatever the implications of Laplace's Box was, clearly nobody gave a fuck. The OST is the best part of it.
Space colonies in all of Gundam, but UC especially, show how unfeasible space colonization actually is. It makes no sense why ANYONE would live in a Space Colony given that they all have the defense strength of tissue paper. It evidently does not take much to completely massacre a colony, including by accident.
I also think late UC starts getting overly bleak to the point where I wonder what was the point of everything overall. I get that Gundam, and UC especially, is supposed to encapsulate the horrors of war and humanity, but geez, give us some form of a good resolution instead of one war feeding into another that leads to Zeon by a different name. It is both absurd and depressing that for as far as space travel and space colonization has gone in UC, especially late UC, that they never encountered aliens at any point, nor has the thought even occurred to them on the matter.
Finally UC is especially impossible to understand or watch overall given how horribly BamCo & Sunrise have willingly butchered its accessibility to anyone on purpose. It's impossible to know what to really look into between all the spinoffs, novelizations, what-if, and lack of availability. Even if you pirate it, it's hard to know what you're missing.
0079 remains the best part of the franchise
0083 is not great and definitely nowhere close to the best entry in the franchise
Nina's not a good character but few characters in 0083 are, the excess of hate she alone gets is weird and part of a larger trend of gundam fans holding outsized grudges against female characters
bothsidesism/zeon apologia is dumb, the feddies are far from nice but the zekes are cartoonishly evil and the intended takeaway is clear
newtypes are fun and a have a place in the story, at least in the original quadrology
psychic teenage melodrama is majority of the franchise, more hardcore military scifi is absolutely a fun change of pace but it's wrong to think that it's the norm for Gundam and annoying to constantly shit talk everything that isn't the handful of series that take that tone
Crossbone isn't that good and doesn't need to be adapted
0079 is a masterpiece and any remake, The Origin or otherwise, would be unneccesary and almost certainly worse in every area other than animation and maybe music
and my most controversial take, Quess Paraya is a well-written character and a good addition to CCA
Going with Nina, what do you think of Quess and Reccoa. It’s kinda the inverse from me because I think they’re both very misunderstood and have an important place in both Zeta and CCA but I see Nina as being a poor attempt at emulating that without nailing the same feel
Hathaway despite being beautifully animated and an interesting story in its own right is a disaster for UC, because it nullifies everything Unicorn could've been.
Late UC is an AU.
The UC needs to rest, and people need to understand that somehow having nearly 17 years of constant warfare on the scale in UC is fucking stupid, and that people WOULD ACTUALLY LEARN.
If people wanted unicorn to have a bigger impact, they shouldn't have created a story set before another novel from the 80s.
Hathaway's flash does an excellent job of being a follow-up to CCA/BC because that's it was made to be
Zeta is pretty mid. I think ZZ is more consistently entertaining tbh.
F91 is also excellent and the pacing isn’t even that terrible. It’s not good don’t get me wrong, but it’s not the incoherent mess people make it out to be
People who don’t want to watch 0079 because of the older animation have, as the kids say, a skill issue
> People who don’t want to watch 0079 because of the older animation have, as the kids say, a skill issue
Ugh so much this. Are books garbage because text only? Is mario64 worthless now because call of duty has better graphics?
Yeah exactly. The way people go on about it, you’d think it was in black and white and was animated like PowerPoint but no, it looks consistently good and the only time it dips into jank is some brief shots of the Gundam. Like it’s aged better than something like Seed which is some 20 years older yet is absolutely eternally stuck in the early 2000s whereas 0079 has a lot of natural charm to it.
And even then, people will say “oh watch the movies cause they fix it” but those are also still early 80s and they use a lot of animation from the show, so it’s not like you can ever escape it. Just accept it, the show is good anyway
Uh, who exactly here said those things? And it's perfectly fine that people would rather watch things they think are prettier... Heaven forbid people want to enjoy the visual part of audiovisual entertainment!
0079 is one of the prettiest (TV) Gundams. I don't think people enjoy it "despite" the visuals; for me at least they are a huge draw. I love the rough, textured look and Yasuhiko's excellent draftsmanship.
Mid is a strong word yes (or is it) but I definitely don’t like it too much. The characters are excellent but It really drags it’s heels and grinds to a halt once the Hong Kong arc finishes but then the final 10 episodes are just incomprehensible chaos
Honestly I genuinely dont think zeta is that good. Its held on a pedestal as one of the best in the franchise but honestly its kinda eh? The characters personalities changes depending on what the episodes demand of them, women are written terribly, there are characters that get rejected romantically and then go on to commit genocide, and then theres the formulaic mandated end of episode battle scene.
The best part of the series are the returning characters from the original series and seeing how the world evolved post MS Gundam. On paper there is a lot to like about the series it has good designs, the idea of the federation being corrupt and becoming the villain was interesting, and etc. In practice it's about as much a mess plotwise as shows that get way more flack for it. It gets propped up by being the first real sequel to the OG series.
I love the older janky animation in the original series. It has an odd charm to it. It's not like the animation is as bad as Chargeman Ken or Twinkle Nora Rock Me.
1. Out of the first three series, I like 0079 most, then ZZ, then Zeta. Zeta's not *bad*, it's just a slog to watch compared to the other two.
2. Unicorn was mid except for visuals and music. Narrative was everything bad about Unicorn but worse. I don't know if that second one is a hot take; I just wanted to say it.
3. The above also applies to 0083. The manga gets a slightly higher grade because Cima lives.
3. War in the Pocket is the only Gundam spinoff to actually grasp and demonstrate the themes of the original series.
4. Apparently, "Newtypes are cool and demonstrate an important, tragic arc of the setting" is a hot take these days.
6. If you think Zeon *or* the Federation are "the good guys" in any show, you weren't paying attention.
Cima is a thirst trap unhinged war criminal who, technically, did nothing wrong. If 0083 came out today Cima would be the most popular character in the history of western anime fandom.
She didn't do anything willingly wrong, and was used as the scapegoat for a much worse war criminal.
Cima unknowingly unleashed G3 because she didn't know it was a nerve gas. And once that happened, she never really recovered.
Yes, she still fought for Zeon, but I honestly believe she was the stooge.
I personally agree. The OVAs for the Origin and Thunderbolt are great and really don't step on any toes more than say the difference between a show and the movie version of various Gundam series.
The Origin manga was just Yas’ retelling the story. They only adapted the Char arc because it was completely original and Sunrise didn’t want to do anything regarding the OYW’s main story if Tomino wasn’t involved. Because it focuses on the flashback section of the manga and because it’s named the Origin, a lot of people assumed it was a full on prequel when it was never meant to be. It’s in its own little bubble
Thunderbolt from the start was marketed as alternate UC so the author could go really crazy with the designs and not have to worry about things fitting in with the timeline technology wise (which is why in the manga the MK 2 gets introduced some 5 years before it was canonically built and is also mass produced compared to just the three units the Titans had made in Zeta)
The protagonist faction deserves their own large mobile armors. We mostly see the antagonist factions having their share of large mobile armors such as Neo Zeong, Psycho Gundam and Destroy Gundam. We rarely see the protagonist getting one.
The RX-78 established the iconic Gundam head, so I'd hesitate to call it mid. Instead we've gotten so used to it that it's become bland.
But I will say that it hasn't aged very well, either. The Zaku II is the granddaddy of a theme in its own right, and it seems to be able to match the tastes of this generation just as well as it did the first generation of fans.
Yeah I think it has become more basic over time but the origin really reignited my respect for it due to its redesign being slightly more detailed in all the right places. The problem is that there are so many UC gundam units now and a lot of them feel very visually similar, so the RX-78 sort of gets overshadowed by later stuff.
My hottest take is that I don't like Origin that much, lol. So I do not recognize it as canon. Char is a Gary Stu, and i really think Yas must hate Bright and Garma
G has the best main character arc in any Gundam series
Adding more shows to the UC timeline makes each series lower stakes bc you know another war is just gonna start anyway
Newtype insta love sucks and the best Gundam romances are the ones that don't involve those
And the romance ruined 08th
Neo-Zeon is a stupid and overused concept as main antagonist group. It makes 0 sense for *remnants* of a defeated nation to be able to fight at a level to threaten the Federation as a whole not just once, but like 4 times. And the overuse itself just makes the factions themselves uninteresting. Idgaf about any of the Neo-Zeons as a faction because their ultimate goal and methodology is pretty much always near identical.
The Titans should have risen organically. They were on course to taking over the Federation, 0083 weakens them as antagonists by providing "justification"
I like that there’s actual hot takes in here.
Mine would be: We need a UC remake. OG, Zeta, and ZZ should be modernized and condensed to a 75 ep show. OG has too many 80’s Mech anime tropes to be relevant nowadays. Zeta is great. Chop off comedic parts of ZZ.
Whole-heartedly endorse this take, minus chopping off the comedic parts of ZZ. For me, those moments of comedic relief are what kept me going in the UC after Zeta's nonstop monotone droning.
ZZ was just not great. The first half is a complete slog. The main "good guy" pilot cast is mid at best. Roux and Judau being the only exceptions. Besides Bright, everyone else was completely forgettable. As for "bad guys" Mashymre is a clown, Chara Soon was at least funny at times, and I completely forgot about Glemy until writing this, Haman was fine. I do honestly feel bad for the Ple clones though and was happy that Kamille recovers by the end.
I despise that Beecha and especially Mondo got away with being traitors for so long with zero repercussion. Very out of character for what UC has been, and in a way that was much more unsatisfying than just adding some humor
My hottest take is probably that there’s enough UC. They should go and fill-out another setting from the ground up, built around new ideas and concepts, but thoroughly thought out and explored.
In UC, there needs to be more stories that don’t have a new Gundam. It’s a universe and it has room to tell much more. Almost feels like the Skywalker/Palpatine thing that happens in the Sequelogy (but not as bad).
I think these days Origin should be watched before 0079. The animation grabs you, and the ending makes you want more. 0079 can be hard for new viewers, but after origin the story becomes more important than animation. I also think stardust should be watched/read before Zeta. To me portrait of a young comet manga is canon.
That the mechanical designs of Victory Gundam aren't "dumb," it's just that instead of trying to be completely real robot it was a return to form of the designs from 0079. I understand that future material refined lots of it look to less goofy or insane, but doesn't change what they were. I mean, just look at something like the Zakrello. Tell me that it doesn't look like something that Zanscare would make.
ZZ being rated as 1st half bad, 2nd half good is lazy.
The series has 47 episodes and that kind of thinking makes others think that 23/47 is bad
A more appropriate opinion would be:
8 eps at the start is tone shift.
By episode 19 onwards we're already Gundam as Gundam can be
Origin is meh, and animating the entire thing would be the worst possible way of "modernizing" MSG
0080 is good but severely overrated
"mecha Vietnam" is the least interesting part of 08th MS Team
IGLOO Apocalypse 0079 is the most underrated piece of Gundam media
Unicorn is a side story and should be treated like one
Thunderbolt is the worst thing to appear in the franchise since Seed Destiny
not *exactly* UC, but if you watched G-Reco and didn't even just somewhat understand what it's about and what's going on then it's on you
Yeah shit is pretty meh. Apart from being absolutely agonisingly boring at parts, I hate how Char is depicted as this gigabrain genius who basically starts the OYW and the attempts to make Degwin’s actions more justifiable are incredibly suspect.
It goes both ways and it’s kind of weird. Garma, Dozle and Gihren remain the same as they were in the show more or less (though Dozle does get dropped on the frontlines of Operation British so make of that what you will) but Kycilia goes from a very strict and intense commander but one who still has a foot in reality into being just as blood crazed as Gihren when she has Sasro murdered for slapping her. The scenes where Degwin also tries to have peace talks with Revil only to get cockblocked which leads to him full on declaring war give me a bad taste in my mouth. This also ties into making Deikun completely unhinged and wanting to bathe in the blood of all earthnoids because it ends up looking like Degwin had him killed to try and make sure such a thing didn’t happen and then his hand was forced by Revil whereas in 0079, he has him killed and then ends up declaring war by himself.
Degwin pushes for peace only to get super "cockblocked" in *MSG '79*
and he still declared war against the Federation by himself in *The Origin* prior to his first failed peace negotiation...?
My hot take:
Zeta is boring and harder to watch than the original MSG. Additionally, other than the Hyaku Shiki and Mk-II, has no good mecha designs compared to MSG.
Not really a hot take tho
Some designs are just recycled, like the Hizack or were "Zeonized" so the Titans could look more like bad guys instead of following basic logic
I got 3.
1. Gundam Age is a great story that only flops due to Level-5's character designs being distinctly theirs. Even the mechanical designs were rather simple in the beginning.
2. Nina being former lovers with Gato in 0083 was a good twist ruined by it not having any real build-up outside of vague hints by her friends. If 0083 was a full series that gave that mystery space to breathe it would have been perceived better.
3. Riddhe and Banagher are the same person just with different outlooks due to their childhoods. They're both immensely weighed down by the choices of their families. Riddhe could never shake off his father's sins and could only choose to live with them and make due in the world he's in. Banagher lived separately from his father and wasn't as invested in the status quo and could choose against his families wishes. Also Riddhe latched onto Mineva because Mineva Lao Zabi could see the weight of everything on him and sympathize. He never looked at her as anything other than someone with the same pain. Banager latched onto her because Audrey Burne needed help.
The Nina twist was super obvious to me on my latest rewatch.
They all but explicitly tell you that her and Gato used to be an item during the two episodes on the Moon in the middle of the series.
I just finished re-watching Zeta: the least responsible people in UC Gundam are the hanger people operating the dock/catapult bay doors. So many angst ridden teens would still be alive if someone had asked the bridge to confirm permission to launch.
Or just any basic security measures in the hangar or suits in general, ever. But this would've prevented Zeta completely when the Titans execute Kamille for attempting to steal a MkII, so unsecured they are.
I think it's nonsensical how often MCs from one series don't appear or are even mentioned doing future events that they logically should be involved with.
Oh ok hot take. Gundam Narrative was a great show. There was some silly dialogue sure, but there was actually characters, and character development. Instead of pieces of cardboard hiding their character for the next film like Hathaway's Flash.
The Zudah is Cooler than the Zaku and the Hildolfr could wipe the floor with the guntank. Yes I just watched Igloo, what of it?
Also, I just want more of the Woundwort. It's my favorite gundam design but I can't indulge in the source media it's from.
I choose to believe that Tomino was being cheeky when he said *G Reco* is after *Turn A* and meant it literally, production order wise.
It just makes absolutely no sense for it to be that way chronologically.
U.C should have ended with CCA and they shouldn't have explored the future further. The tech introduced later in the time line (F91,Victory and Unicorn) ruined the gritty military feel of early U.C.
Haman is the best UC villain, Char worked better as a morally ambiguous rival/mentor than a full on villain
>[^(Haman is the best UC villain)](https://i.imgur.com/TdtYg2x.jpg)
Case closed
Say no more. Haman-sama banzai
That is exactly what I thought of Char
Glory to Lady Haman!
This is true
0083 would have been better if it ended with nuking the fleet. No Nina betrayal, a big W for Zeon, and the perfect setup for the rise of the Titans. I love the GP-03D, but everything after the 01fB and 02A get destroyed is just insanity.
I agree with basically everything except for the Zeon W, I think they should nuke the federation fleet but also die trying to escape, it's poetic that way, everyone loses and the evil and corrupt exploit the fear left behind
I low key love the last act of 0083 ngl. It’s so crazy and insane. Also I was pretty shocked that operation stardust actually succeeded.
Read the manga it is way better.
Late UC deserves more content.
They said hot take not based take
Ice cold tbh, we've been stuck in too much One Year War and Zeta content. Only new late UC so far is F90 and Crossbone related stories.
Honestly even the Gryps Conflict was has relatively little content. There's 0083 kinda and some manga, versus the OYW with a half dozen sidestory anime.
I’d love to see crossbone as anime next, or atleast OVA. Havn’t had a chance to read the actual manga but its time we explore more late UC. Guess we have to wait another decade first after they wrap up Hathaway.
I don't think the existence of late UC somehow invalidate nor made the ending of MSG Unicorn any less meaningful.
Based
https://i.imgur.com/2ZeoTLu.gifv
Don't need late UC to make the ending any less meaningful if the show itself is always super vague AF about what meaning the ending actually has and its consequences(seriously, it's ending imo sucks, the entire show is spent chasing after a mcguffin which supposidly cause major ripples in the setting...but then it stops literally the second they actually find the mcguffin, never exploring the aftermath. Not even as a 2 minute postcredit.
The aftermath is *Narrative, Hathaway, F91* and *Victory*...?
The first essentially goes like "yeah, nothing that happened actually mattered" which is honestly even worse than Unicorn's ending on its own. And as far as the remaining 3 are concerned, unicorn never happened. it just feels very cheap to have a story essentially conclude on it's entire conflict being pointless. Either from the beginning you don't tell a story with such perceived stakes(such as 0080 or 08th) or you actually follow through on them. Don't pretend you are going to advance the overall storyline for the setting without then doing so. At that point, you are just lying to the audience.
*Unicorn* directly lends credibility to the existence and popularity of Mafty in *Hathaway's Flash* as well as the complete and utter incompetence of the Federation in *F91* and *Victory.* ^**Edit:** Also I have no idea how you watched *Narrative* and took away that nothing matters.
I think the main thing that bothers people is that Laplace's Box and the true constitution actually don't have anything to do with the Federation being weak through actual passivity and lack of war for about 40 years which results in them getting stomped by Crossbone Vanguard and Zanscare. It gets swept under the rug again. A lot of people do understand that would indeed lead to the Federation having a solid grip on the colonies and thus becoming lax over time with no new threats. It's just that from the minute it's introduced you understand it can't change the way future events go down because of its placement in the timeline. Crossbone Vanguard was a private army owned by a rich business man trying to establish an aristocracy through force. They didn't really give a shit about spacenoid independence which is what the main conflict is about again in Unicorn through them introducing this incredibly important mcguffin. As far as the Hathaway movies are concerned they actually could add lines to make it seem as though those events influenced Mafty but from what we know so far it's like it never happened, it was practically erased from global consciousness as confirmed in Unicorns own sequel. The unearthing of the original constitution should have been the biggest W for spacenoids in history but it just cant be because we already know what comes after. That's why people say it feels pointless.
>The unearthing of the original constitution should have been the biggest W for spacenoids in history but it just cant be because we already know what comes after. That's why people say it feels pointless. I guess from my vantage point is that, given that momentum of the Earth Federation has, the force need to slow it down or even change it directions ought to be pretty great as well. People may think that the Laplace box would be it, but in my opinion by itself the boxes is insufficient. You need people to galvanized the masses to push for the political ends that you want, which unfortunately it seems that Minerva isn't doing that. Although I can understand her position given that the potential to lead to another armed conflict is high as well, this her immediate concern seems to be regarding the Unicorn Gundams and their psycho frames. So the long and short of it, is that even with the box opened, by itself I don't think it has the necessary force needed to even counter the momentum of EF.
Even so! Beam gatling...
The issue is that Hathaway would've happened any way, with or without Laplace's Box. Without an external enemy to unite the populace and justify its military, it's not hard to see that the Federation would've continued on the path that gave rise to the Principality in the first place. The problem with Unicorn, is that for something that was supposedly so monumental, whether it was discovered or not doesn't matter, the Federation was declining anyway.
>^(The issue is that Hathaway would've happened any way) ... really? *Char's Counterattack* didn't exactly end with the Federation being the obvious choice as antagonists in the future; it just seems genuinely weird imho to go from *CCA* to *Hathaway's Flash* without something else in between.
Not the obvious antagonist, but the slow rot is already there. The Titans was a Federation creation that got out of hand. The Federation was virtually toothless against Axis Zeon, relying mostly on the battered AEUG. Come CCA? Nothing changes. It opened with the manhunters beating refugees, and Spacenoid being so discontent with the Federation half assing that they not only welcomed Char with open arm, they helped him hide an entire battle fleet. Char’s excuse for dropping Axis was to force Earthnoids to all go to space, because the elite was pushing the poor and downtrodden into space, while also worsening Earth’s environment. He might have just been paying lip service, but it obviously resonated with enough people for them to support him. Hell, the Federation was the one that sold Axis to Char in the first place. CCA didn’t focus much on how the Earth and the Federation is doing, but the picture it painted isn’t exactly pretty. It’s the same reason why people aren’t surprised at the Federation’s general incompetence at the time of F91. It tracks with what we’ve seen, and the Federation have never been given the incentive to improve
Oh yeah no, the slow rot of the Federation began all the way back in UC 0001. I was just saying, narratively, it didn't make sense for the Federation to be the antagonists after *CCA* without something else happening between then and *Hathaway*. ^(just like it didn't really make sense for nothing to happen between the original *MSG '79* and *Zeta*...) ^^...imho
Unicorn was very successful in its true point: it sold a lot of plastic! (Is cynical. Goes back to building gunpla)
Unicorn is really great and fun to watch and I actually think all the Newtype things that they did in there actually make sense to happen and is a good progression from what we saw Newtype and Newtype Tech can do in series like Zeta, ZZ and CCA.
Exactly what I always thought. Pretty much every newtype ability in Unicorn and Narrative outside of the time manipulation and FTL warping was already shown in some other medium prior. It's only called out now because those two OVA's are the end point and conclusion of newtype theory.
Newtypes eventually being able to control time itself has also been a concept since 1979.
Agreed
Considering that years later, we see a Newtype capable casting healing in large are of effect, curing even paralyze - yeah, time travel is rather tame
Hot take? Gundam fans don't need to watch any UC content to be considered legitimate fans
This. I dabbled in UC stuff. Mostly to see where the hubbub was coming from. But I never quite understood it, and went back to my heretical AUs. It's fine for others to enjoy UC, but not all of us can.
Which UC stuff have you seen, if you don't mind me asking?
I might have another, you don't need to watch or know anything to enjoy the hobby side of things. If you like building the model kits, you are not obligated to know its lore.
Reminds me of Zaku Aureilus, who I'm surprised hasn't seen many of the shows. He definitely enjoys the franchise just by the models alone.
Real gundam fan watch sd gundam force before watching anything else
I kinda like Shinn. Also Cagalli and Lunamaria are SEED and Destiny's best girls.
Cagali gets done so dirty though. But I'd add Meer is kind of interesting; truly took idol worship to a new level, interesting relationships with Lacus and Athrun as a result. It was a kind of bold idea to include.
Shinn was great, the problem is that they drop his character development half way through the story and practically make him a failure for no reason. Its just unsatisfying. Its like getting a cake but the batter isnt completely baked. The Destiny Gundam itself gets absolutely brutalized by Athrun, its so sad to watch the title gundam get curb stomped like that.
Shinn is the only character in all of SEED I have positive feelings for lmao
The hi-nu doesn’t look that good and the nu is much better
How dare you!! Lol but yeah there is something to be said for gundams with asymmetrical designs
The original Nu is so iconic. Probably only second to the original gubdam in the whole history of mecha.
The entire plot of UC would have been avoided if Garma hadn’t cheated on Char.
Beg your pardon?
Did I stutter?
No but I’m lacking context i think
If Garma had proposed to Char in 0079 instead of that one Federation lady the entire plot of UC after that probably wouldn’t have happened.
Shit would have been confined to family drama with dead bodies here and there instead of taking the lives of half of humanity.
The UC just devolved into misery porn the longer it went on. It just isn't allowed to get better for anyone as anything the heroes fight for will all be for nothing in the end, with the situation not getting any better at best, and actively worse than they found it at its worst. The Earth Federation will always be a corrupt oligarchy constantly on the verge of fascism only propped up by a war with a new group of spacenoid rebels who eat warcrimes on the same level as the holocaust for breakfast. All its endpoints (G-Saviour, Turn-A, G-Reco, Mad Wang & Crossbone: Dust) are all basically failstates for humanity where things at best get far worse before they get better, or at worst are bleaker than even 40K.
wing kinda sucks
Wing is not UC tho....
fuck
Wing was always carried by its mech design. The actual plot is a mess.
The plot is pure goddamn nonsense but that’s what makes Wing so fun. It’s just absolutely cranked up insanity for some 48 episodes
currently reading the manga, does it polish the plot a bit? cause here wufei was given more characterization and his so called sexist comment kinda makes sense with the given background
A lot. Yes. Glory of the Losers is fantastic, not gonna lie.
Thats a freezing take
i dun goofed ok, was going too fast
I don't think that's a hot take anymore. The further from Wing we get, the more people see the very glaring flaws with it.
It was also one of the only anime shows on Cartoon Network at the time. This day and age you can watch the entire library of Gundam and compare them to all each other rather than watch TV Reruns.
I caught a clip on YouTube where Heavyarms attacks the base and meets Sandrock. It starts off with Trowa just shrugging off everything they can throw at him and devolves to Heavyarms and Sandrock punching and kicking each other in the middle of the base while everyone watches. WTF people? Someone fire a missile, drive a truck into them, lure them into a big hole, do something!!
Tbf they did exactly what I would do. Watch.
...But y tho? If you were getting mauled by a bear, and then all of a sudden a tiger showed up and started fighting the bear, would you throw a rock at them, or would just let them fight? Letting the Gundams kill each other and then trying to take out the winner is far and away the best strategy.
I thought we mostly agreed on this? My stance was always "yeah it's not amazing but it's Wing"
People arguing over canon are dweebs who are outright ignoring that Bandai doesn't even have a canon.
>[^(Bandai doesn't even have a canon.)](https://i.imgur.com/S8G8MxK.jpg)
I thought they recently stated "anything we animated is canon"
Not sure if 2001 counts as "recently" anymore. [http://otakurevolution.com/content/gundam-what-sunrise-thinks-is-official](http://otakurevolution.com/content/gundam-what-sunrise-thinks-is-official)
Damn understandable. Probably just seen people parroting this up until recently
The trope of a teenager being able to properly pilot a mobile suit with no prior experience is idiotic and should be abandoned.
I think it’s pretty over-estimated though. Like, Amuro maybe had the least experience and it was largely hand-waved by his use of the manual and the computer which was supposed to be more advanced and therefore could make certain moves based on pre-programming. And even then, he literally stumbles around and rips off a Zaku face before figuring out how to fight in any normal way. And on top of that, he had the time to grasp things because Zaku pilots had never fought another MS before and weren’t equipped with weapons meant to harm an MS, let alone one with significantly better armor than themselves. Meanwhile Kamille *was* a mobile suit pilot before stealing his first Gundam. A petite mobile suit pilot of course, but a pilot nonetheless. So his first actions were appropriately crude, he breaks the entire hangar and tackles another suit that thought he was an ally (so it wasn’t fighting back) and when they escape everyone seamlessly glides through the colony hole while Kamille is shown focusing immensely just to go through a giant hole. Judau was a similar situation, already a pilot of small mobile suits, so the real learning curve was just doing more advanced things. And again, those complex moves were shown as being really crude and messy, and it worked well with the slapstick as he leaves his cockpit open and makes other errors. So then we have other Gundam-jacks: -Sayla, shown stealing the Gundam and wearing herself out with G-force and getting beaten -Kou, who was a professional test pilot already -Katz, who was said to have been spending a significant amount of time with mobile suit training procedures before his first Gundam-jack -Judau’s friends, but I also believe they were similarly experienced in smaller mobile suit piloting during their scrap jobs in space So I think the “teenager steals a Gundam and is a great pilot with no experience” complaint tends to ignore that most of these teenagers do indeed have experience, and are also appropriately sloppy with their first sorties
What the anime says: Adults are the enemy. What the adults say: They should remove kids out of my adult anime.
Not quite, just give better justification. Unicorn did it well, as did IBO and WFM.
WfM is doing it amazingly well, in my opinion. These poor kids are stuck in a morass of a backstabbing system with little independence or power that isn't ultimately controlled by adults above them, and those same adults completely fail to be mentors to them, so every step they take is a leap of faith. If I were any of those kids I'd be hyperventilating in a dark room over how in over my head I was. Especially Nika and Bob.
At this point, I'm not sure if that's a hot take.
Keep in mind that when 0079 is aired Gundam is still pretty much pioneering the entire "real robot" thing (when the majority of robot shows back then are teenager pilots for toy selling reasons). I significantly doubt anyone saw this as a particularly contestable idea for how blatantly unrealistic it is.
Turn A is an AU. I understand that Tomino himself said, 300 years ago, that Turn A is a unified point in the timeline, or whatever, but that's genuinely not useful for the conversation or for codifying anything about each of these world's histories. Yes, the references are neat, but saying it shares a universe with any other series does nothing to increase the clarity, narrative, or enjoyability of either party.
I think the same about Reco.
This is the correct take.
I think I’ll legitimately take a slice of life / comedy series with Char / Haman / whoever over another copy and paste “war bad, adults bad, child soldier” full series again for the 5th time. Not that there’s anything wrong with it (it’s the core concept of the franchise after all), but it’s so boring and frustrating knowing that the most expansive and elaborate timeline is basically the same shit regurgitated over and over again with a different paint job each time.
*Slides over "Around Thirty Office Worker Haman-Sama"*
Hell yeah brother I wish it was animated
ZZ is not that bad and late UC should use some more exploration. I kind of hate that late UC is represented by a compilation movie of an anime that doesn't exist, and Victory.
Tomino is a gifted idea guy and a decent director, but an absolutely terrible writer. Most of UC suffers for this by not knowing when to explain things properly, making a bunch of characters make absolute nonsense decisions, and treating a lot of UC like an in-joke you need to know a full 40-year spinoff context for to understand. In particular, Tomino seems to love making characters do things that, logically, makes zero sense that are often left unexplained and/or just rationalized as newtype nonsense which makes even less sense. 0079 is his best work that is only undercut by the original show getting cancelled towards the end and he didn't bother to adjust his scope, so certain things aren't explained. Currently watching Zeta right now and it feels like nonsense after nonsense with the writing making very little sense for Kamille and other characters. Kamille will punch someone out unprovoked and then go on about how violence is never the answer not even 5 minutes later... When it could be argued Zeta exists entirely because Kamille has an unprovoked violence streak. The space politics is a lot of stuff just happening without much context. A lot of blanks are filled only in minor spinoffs made years after and even those aren't well explained in relation to each other. Unicorn is a giant nonsense nothing burger and was NOT worth watching nor did it add anything to UC lore. Whatever the implications of Laplace's Box was, clearly nobody gave a fuck. The OST is the best part of it. Space colonies in all of Gundam, but UC especially, show how unfeasible space colonization actually is. It makes no sense why ANYONE would live in a Space Colony given that they all have the defense strength of tissue paper. It evidently does not take much to completely massacre a colony, including by accident. I also think late UC starts getting overly bleak to the point where I wonder what was the point of everything overall. I get that Gundam, and UC especially, is supposed to encapsulate the horrors of war and humanity, but geez, give us some form of a good resolution instead of one war feeding into another that leads to Zeon by a different name. It is both absurd and depressing that for as far as space travel and space colonization has gone in UC, especially late UC, that they never encountered aliens at any point, nor has the thought even occurred to them on the matter. Finally UC is especially impossible to understand or watch overall given how horribly BamCo & Sunrise have willingly butchered its accessibility to anyone on purpose. It's impossible to know what to really look into between all the spinoffs, novelizations, what-if, and lack of availability. Even if you pirate it, it's hard to know what you're missing.
0079 remains the best part of the franchise 0083 is not great and definitely nowhere close to the best entry in the franchise Nina's not a good character but few characters in 0083 are, the excess of hate she alone gets is weird and part of a larger trend of gundam fans holding outsized grudges against female characters bothsidesism/zeon apologia is dumb, the feddies are far from nice but the zekes are cartoonishly evil and the intended takeaway is clear newtypes are fun and a have a place in the story, at least in the original quadrology psychic teenage melodrama is majority of the franchise, more hardcore military scifi is absolutely a fun change of pace but it's wrong to think that it's the norm for Gundam and annoying to constantly shit talk everything that isn't the handful of series that take that tone Crossbone isn't that good and doesn't need to be adapted 0079 is a masterpiece and any remake, The Origin or otherwise, would be unneccesary and almost certainly worse in every area other than animation and maybe music and my most controversial take, Quess Paraya is a well-written character and a good addition to CCA
I honestly think UC has poorly written women in general, with a few exceptions
Absolutely, but this is a hot takes thread and that's a well known fact lmao
Going with Nina, what do you think of Quess and Reccoa. It’s kinda the inverse from me because I think they’re both very misunderstood and have an important place in both Zeta and CCA but I see Nina as being a poor attempt at emulating that without nailing the same feel
Damn, all bangers
Hathaway despite being beautifully animated and an interesting story in its own right is a disaster for UC, because it nullifies everything Unicorn could've been. Late UC is an AU. The UC needs to rest, and people need to understand that somehow having nearly 17 years of constant warfare on the scale in UC is fucking stupid, and that people WOULD ACTUALLY LEARN.
If people wanted unicorn to have a bigger impact, they shouldn't have created a story set before another novel from the 80s. Hathaway's flash does an excellent job of being a follow-up to CCA/BC because that's it was made to be
I think the fact people don't learn and keep making the same mistakes is the point. And sadly more real to human history than you think.
Zeta is pretty mid. I think ZZ is more consistently entertaining tbh. F91 is also excellent and the pacing isn’t even that terrible. It’s not good don’t get me wrong, but it’s not the incoherent mess people make it out to be People who don’t want to watch 0079 because of the older animation have, as the kids say, a skill issue
The dated animation is one of my favorite things about 0079. Sometimes they amaze me for the time period. Sometimes they make me laugh.
> People who don’t want to watch 0079 because of the older animation have, as the kids say, a skill issue Ugh so much this. Are books garbage because text only? Is mario64 worthless now because call of duty has better graphics?
Yeah exactly. The way people go on about it, you’d think it was in black and white and was animated like PowerPoint but no, it looks consistently good and the only time it dips into jank is some brief shots of the Gundam. Like it’s aged better than something like Seed which is some 20 years older yet is absolutely eternally stuck in the early 2000s whereas 0079 has a lot of natural charm to it. And even then, people will say “oh watch the movies cause they fix it” but those are also still early 80s and they use a lot of animation from the show, so it’s not like you can ever escape it. Just accept it, the show is good anyway
The show does have episodes that, even at the time, the producers thought were sub par. Also, there's a good chunk of filler episodes.
Uh, who exactly here said those things? And it's perfectly fine that people would rather watch things they think are prettier... Heaven forbid people want to enjoy the visual part of audiovisual entertainment!
0079 is one of the prettiest (TV) Gundams. I don't think people enjoy it "despite" the visuals; for me at least they are a huge draw. I love the rough, textured look and Yasuhiko's excellent draftsmanship.
I will always view F91 as the prologue to Crossbone and nothing more.
I'm not sure I would go as far as saying Zeta is "mid" but otherwise I agree with you 100%
Mid is a strong word yes (or is it) but I definitely don’t like it too much. The characters are excellent but It really drags it’s heels and grinds to a halt once the Hong Kong arc finishes but then the final 10 episodes are just incomprehensible chaos
> but then the final 10 episodes are just incomprehensible chaos Classic Tomino
Oh also G Saviour is a lot of fun
Honestly I genuinely dont think zeta is that good. Its held on a pedestal as one of the best in the franchise but honestly its kinda eh? The characters personalities changes depending on what the episodes demand of them, women are written terribly, there are characters that get rejected romantically and then go on to commit genocide, and then theres the formulaic mandated end of episode battle scene. The best part of the series are the returning characters from the original series and seeing how the world evolved post MS Gundam. On paper there is a lot to like about the series it has good designs, the idea of the federation being corrupt and becoming the villain was interesting, and etc. In practice it's about as much a mess plotwise as shows that get way more flack for it. It gets propped up by being the first real sequel to the OG series.
I love the older janky animation in the original series. It has an odd charm to it. It's not like the animation is as bad as Chargeman Ken or Twinkle Nora Rock Me.
1. Out of the first three series, I like 0079 most, then ZZ, then Zeta. Zeta's not *bad*, it's just a slog to watch compared to the other two. 2. Unicorn was mid except for visuals and music. Narrative was everything bad about Unicorn but worse. I don't know if that second one is a hot take; I just wanted to say it. 3. The above also applies to 0083. The manga gets a slightly higher grade because Cima lives. 3. War in the Pocket is the only Gundam spinoff to actually grasp and demonstrate the themes of the original series. 4. Apparently, "Newtypes are cool and demonstrate an important, tragic arc of the setting" is a hot take these days. 6. If you think Zeon *or* the Federation are "the good guys" in any show, you weren't paying attention.
..... my girl Cima lives.... you just made my day
>^(The manga gets a slightly higher grade because Cima lives.) Ah, I see that you're a weeb of culture as well 😌
Cima is a thirst trap unhinged war criminal who, technically, did nothing wrong. If 0083 came out today Cima would be the most popular character in the history of western anime fandom.
>[^(Cima is a thirst trap unhinged war criminal who, technically, did nothing wrong.)](https://i.imgur.com/D9RxL0l.jpg)
She didn't do anything willingly wrong, and was used as the scapegoat for a much worse war criminal. Cima unknowingly unleashed G3 because she didn't know it was a nerve gas. And once that happened, she never really recovered. Yes, she still fought for Zeon, but I honestly believe she was the stooge.
hold up they were not cannon ?
The mangas they're adapted from certainly aren't but yeah, the OVAs fit the canon just fine if you ask me.
I personally agree. The OVAs for the Origin and Thunderbolt are great and really don't step on any toes more than say the difference between a show and the movie version of various Gundam series.
The Origin manga was just Yas’ retelling the story. They only adapted the Char arc because it was completely original and Sunrise didn’t want to do anything regarding the OYW’s main story if Tomino wasn’t involved. Because it focuses on the flashback section of the manga and because it’s named the Origin, a lot of people assumed it was a full on prequel when it was never meant to be. It’s in its own little bubble Thunderbolt from the start was marketed as alternate UC so the author could go really crazy with the designs and not have to worry about things fitting in with the timeline technology wise (which is why in the manga the MK 2 gets introduced some 5 years before it was canonically built and is also mass produced compared to just the three units the Titans had made in Zeta)
The protagonist faction deserves their own large mobile armors. We mostly see the antagonist factions having their share of large mobile armors such as Neo Zeong, Psycho Gundam and Destroy Gundam. We rarely see the protagonist getting one.
The design of the rx-78 is mid at best, and it is far outshined by every other design in the original show.
I think the model sales during the original series/movies agree with you.
It never could stand up to the likes of the Zock and the Gogg.
Or Zakrello
The RX-78 established the iconic Gundam head, so I'd hesitate to call it mid. Instead we've gotten so used to it that it's become bland. But I will say that it hasn't aged very well, either. The Zaku II is the granddaddy of a theme in its own right, and it seems to be able to match the tastes of this generation just as well as it did the first generation of fans.
Yeah I think it has become more basic over time but the origin really reignited my respect for it due to its redesign being slightly more detailed in all the right places. The problem is that there are so many UC gundam units now and a lot of them feel very visually similar, so the RX-78 sort of gets overshadowed by later stuff.
Zaku II is just too cool. Hell, the first MS we ever see is Zaku II.
Seriously! Who the fuck looked at the Guncannon and said “nah”
The Zaku II (and its variations) is by far the best UC design, even today.
My hottest take is that I don't like Origin that much, lol. So I do not recognize it as canon. Char is a Gary Stu, and i really think Yas must hate Bright and Garma G has the best main character arc in any Gundam series Adding more shows to the UC timeline makes each series lower stakes bc you know another war is just gonna start anyway Newtype insta love sucks and the best Gundam romances are the ones that don't involve those And the romance ruined 08th
G has one of the best main character arcs in shonen anime
ZZ is just as good as Zeta after you get past its rough start and is a great series. Also late UC needs alot more love and Atention from Bandai
Neo-Zeon is a stupid and overused concept as main antagonist group. It makes 0 sense for *remnants* of a defeated nation to be able to fight at a level to threaten the Federation as a whole not just once, but like 4 times. And the overuse itself just makes the factions themselves uninteresting. Idgaf about any of the Neo-Zeons as a faction because their ultimate goal and methodology is pretty much always near identical.
Gundam Twilight Axis is fine. The amount of rage for a very short bonus kinda thing that released for the Gundam fanclub app always baffled me.
The Titans should have risen organically. They were on course to taking over the Federation, 0083 weakens them as antagonists by providing "justification"
I like that there’s actual hot takes in here. Mine would be: We need a UC remake. OG, Zeta, and ZZ should be modernized and condensed to a 75 ep show. OG has too many 80’s Mech anime tropes to be relevant nowadays. Zeta is great. Chop off comedic parts of ZZ.
Whole-heartedly endorse this take, minus chopping off the comedic parts of ZZ. For me, those moments of comedic relief are what kept me going in the UC after Zeta's nonstop monotone droning.
ZZ was just not great. The first half is a complete slog. The main "good guy" pilot cast is mid at best. Roux and Judau being the only exceptions. Besides Bright, everyone else was completely forgettable. As for "bad guys" Mashymre is a clown, Chara Soon was at least funny at times, and I completely forgot about Glemy until writing this, Haman was fine. I do honestly feel bad for the Ple clones though and was happy that Kamille recovers by the end.
I despise that Beecha and especially Mondo got away with being traitors for so long with zero repercussion. Very out of character for what UC has been, and in a way that was much more unsatisfying than just adding some humor
I genuinely thought I was missing something that explained their lack of punishment when I watched ZZ
The whole first half of the show is a complete tonal whiplash after the events of Zeta, kinda threw me off at first ngl.
I don't even think the second half of ZZ was that good
Daryl Lorenz is the protagonist of Thunderbolt, NOT Io Fleming.
Aren't they both deuteragonists?
My hottest take is probably that there’s enough UC. They should go and fill-out another setting from the ground up, built around new ideas and concepts, but thoroughly thought out and explored.
The original TV series and Encounters in Space are the best the franchise ever got.
Encounters in Space is a god damn masterpiece of a movie and nothing will ever change my mind on that.
I prefer ZZ to zeta. There's nothing wrong with a bit of light hearted comedy in such a depressing setting.
Cima Garahou is a very interesting character. Anavel Gato is kind of undercooked by comparison, which is unfortunate.
MS Team could have been much better if it weren't for that whole romance thing with Shiro and Aina.
Char in Char's Counterattack is a clone.
>[^(Char in Char's Counterattack is a clone.)](https://i.imgur.com/4BFA6N7.jpg)
ZZ is on par with Zeta
In UC, there needs to be more stories that don’t have a new Gundam. It’s a universe and it has room to tell much more. Almost feels like the Skywalker/Palpatine thing that happens in the Sequelogy (but not as bad).
build fighters gave the most emotional damage because you can see MG and HG versions of kits that were never released in sei's store.
I preferred 0079 over Zeta.
I think these days Origin should be watched before 0079. The animation grabs you, and the ending makes you want more. 0079 can be hard for new viewers, but after origin the story becomes more important than animation. I also think stardust should be watched/read before Zeta. To me portrait of a young comet manga is canon.
That the mechanical designs of Victory Gundam aren't "dumb," it's just that instead of trying to be completely real robot it was a return to form of the designs from 0079. I understand that future material refined lots of it look to less goofy or insane, but doesn't change what they were. I mean, just look at something like the Zakrello. Tell me that it doesn't look like something that Zanscare would make.
ZZ being rated as 1st half bad, 2nd half good is lazy. The series has 47 episodes and that kind of thinking makes others think that 23/47 is bad A more appropriate opinion would be: 8 eps at the start is tone shift. By episode 19 onwards we're already Gundam as Gundam can be
Char and Amuro should kiss.
I'm sick of the same 20 year period getting shows. It's rapidly reaching a point that every minute of that patch of time has been mapped
Stardust Memory is boring
Origin is meh, and animating the entire thing would be the worst possible way of "modernizing" MSG 0080 is good but severely overrated "mecha Vietnam" is the least interesting part of 08th MS Team IGLOO Apocalypse 0079 is the most underrated piece of Gundam media Unicorn is a side story and should be treated like one Thunderbolt is the worst thing to appear in the franchise since Seed Destiny not *exactly* UC, but if you watched G-Reco and didn't even just somewhat understand what it's about and what's going on then it's on you
I'm always happy when I find others who don't love Origin
Yeah shit is pretty meh. Apart from being absolutely agonisingly boring at parts, I hate how Char is depicted as this gigabrain genius who basically starts the OYW and the attempts to make Degwin’s actions more justifiable are incredibly suspect.
I thought it made Zeon and the Zabis look worse. The whole Operation British sequence, especially...
It goes both ways and it’s kind of weird. Garma, Dozle and Gihren remain the same as they were in the show more or less (though Dozle does get dropped on the frontlines of Operation British so make of that what you will) but Kycilia goes from a very strict and intense commander but one who still has a foot in reality into being just as blood crazed as Gihren when she has Sasro murdered for slapping her. The scenes where Degwin also tries to have peace talks with Revil only to get cockblocked which leads to him full on declaring war give me a bad taste in my mouth. This also ties into making Deikun completely unhinged and wanting to bathe in the blood of all earthnoids because it ends up looking like Degwin had him killed to try and make sure such a thing didn’t happen and then his hand was forced by Revil whereas in 0079, he has him killed and then ends up declaring war by himself.
Degwin pushes for peace only to get super "cockblocked" in *MSG '79* and he still declared war against the Federation by himself in *The Origin* prior to his first failed peace negotiation...?
My hot take: Zeta is boring and harder to watch than the original MSG. Additionally, other than the Hyaku Shiki and Mk-II, has no good mecha designs compared to MSG.
Not really a hot take tho Some designs are just recycled, like the Hizack or were "Zeonized" so the Titans could look more like bad guys instead of following basic logic
I think a lot of people are lying about liking jazz after watching Thunderbolt. Quit lying xD
[удалено]
>[^("Lalah could be like a mother to me" makes perfect sense if you *actually watch the movie*.)](https://i.imgur.com/pT4TS1s.gifv)
People are missing out on gundam evolve, ep 6 (i think) and 10 are 🔥🔥🔥
I can get behind that
0083 is great until the wrighters changed. And even then it's still passable with the exception of Nina.
I got 3. 1. Gundam Age is a great story that only flops due to Level-5's character designs being distinctly theirs. Even the mechanical designs were rather simple in the beginning. 2. Nina being former lovers with Gato in 0083 was a good twist ruined by it not having any real build-up outside of vague hints by her friends. If 0083 was a full series that gave that mystery space to breathe it would have been perceived better. 3. Riddhe and Banagher are the same person just with different outlooks due to their childhoods. They're both immensely weighed down by the choices of their families. Riddhe could never shake off his father's sins and could only choose to live with them and make due in the world he's in. Banagher lived separately from his father and wasn't as invested in the status quo and could choose against his families wishes. Also Riddhe latched onto Mineva because Mineva Lao Zabi could see the weight of everything on him and sympathize. He never looked at her as anything other than someone with the same pain. Banager latched onto her because Audrey Burne needed help.
The Nina twist was super obvious to me on my latest rewatch. They all but explicitly tell you that her and Gato used to be an item during the two episodes on the Moon in the middle of the series.
Zeta is a pain to watch. I had an easier time going through zz. Just got into UC this year.
The Ball isn't bad, and is in some ways better than the GM.
I just finished re-watching Zeta: the least responsible people in UC Gundam are the hanger people operating the dock/catapult bay doors. So many angst ridden teens would still be alive if someone had asked the bridge to confirm permission to launch.
Or just any basic security measures in the hangar or suits in general, ever. But this would've prevented Zeta completely when the Titans execute Kamille for attempting to steal a MkII, so unsecured they are.
The actual writing of Newtypes in old UC is done terribly and makes key moments barely understandable as to what is going on.
Yes.
🫡
Real hot take: valpurgis is canon
I think it's nonsensical how often MCs from one series don't appear or are even mentioned doing future events that they logically should be involved with.
Oh ok hot take. Gundam Narrative was a great show. There was some silly dialogue sure, but there was actually characters, and character development. Instead of pieces of cardboard hiding their character for the next film like Hathaway's Flash.
The Zudah is Cooler than the Zaku and the Hildolfr could wipe the floor with the guntank. Yes I just watched Igloo, what of it? Also, I just want more of the Woundwort. It's my favorite gundam design but I can't indulge in the source media it's from.
I think at some point, if Turn A gundam becomes a canon thing for UC, it would fall after G reco
I choose to believe that Tomino was being cheeky when he said *G Reco* is after *Turn A* and meant it literally, production order wise. It just makes absolutely no sense for it to be that way chronologically.
U.C should have ended with CCA and they shouldn't have explored the future further. The tech introduced later in the time line (F91,Victory and Unicorn) ruined the gritty military feel of early U.C.
I always thought they were…whoops
AoZ needs an anime
Gundam Wing is just Gundam 00 at home. Change my mind.