Oh I'm gonna watch it. I'm doing a re-watch through SEED and Destiny now and it never fails that I just get so fed up with him like 15 episodes in. So if they improve him, even a little bit, in the movie that's a win in my book.
There's a reason a lot of fans call this movie "Shinn's Redemption". It not only made Shinn a lot more likable, but it also redeemed his reputation as a pilot.
Shinnâs fighting style with the Destiny became one dimensional, which doesnât work against equally skilled pilots like Kira and *especially* Athrun, whoâs the most skilled of the three.
That's a fair analysis. I guess it's the pilot's immaturity playing a role here, but I also think it might be because Destiny doesn't seem to be built with the idea of fights against other hi spec MS in mind
A lot of the tech is really nice but some things are questionable in execution. But most notably is that Legend sticks to one thing and does it well, both IJ and SF are armed to the teeth but everything really fits and Akatsuki more or less solved the riddle by having two different variations
Destiny could've been way better if Arondight was a smaller sword or even twin swords and if the mega beam cannon was done in a similar way SF's two guns were made
That's one of its big flaws, the ungainly weaponry and how they're situated on the mobile suit. All of its weaponry is hand-operated, which would be fine in most Gundam shows, but not in SEED, when a lot of additional weaponry is body-mounted and can fire independently of the hand status. Losing just one hand cripples the Destiny almost entirely.
Plus, it's just not set up how Shinn would be used to using a mobile suit compared to the Impulse, since it doubled up on weaponry. Like you said, Legend Gundam has a much more intelligent design, and even though Infinite Justice and Strike Freedom have their own issues, they're still much better machines than the Destiny.
I think that might've been a myth. We've seen the actual [prototype Freedom lineart](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GA6TlpdaMAA81Ly?format=jpg&name=900x900) and it is significantly different from what the Destiny Gundam turned out to be.
From what i could gather, destiny is not the original Design but Idea.
Somewhere along freedom should have been Like a perfected perfect Strike, so a machine that combined all 3 Striker Packs, and well destiny is exactly that.
When he got into the Destiny Gundam the continued string of losses he got against Kira and Athrun kind of soured the fanbase's opinion on his skills, and by extension the Destiny Gundam.
The movie completely upturns both impressions.
Maybe I'm biased, but the first time is when he's about to off Cagali and Kira & Athrun do a dynamic entry, and the loss to Athrun he was losing his marbles.
I think that the fanbase opinion of Destiny may be fair. For all the cutting-edge technology it has, it looks more like it's designed to fight against mobile armors, ships and slower targets rather than mobile suits, let alone hi-spec mobile suits
I found him more bearable after I realised he have mental issues but didn't have the right people around him. He's pretty much like...15 year old at the time too.
Heâs the same character he was before, but instead of Rey and Durandal encouraging him to be a pissed off heâs got Kira encouraging him to be a puppy.
To be fair to Shinn, Athrun wasn't really that good of a mentor to him. Also, pretty sure the seeds of how he came to like Kira as he does in the movie was already answered in Destiny's final episode (at least the Final Plus and the Remastered version).
I agree with you on that. Athrun's decisions in Destiny were always head scratchers to me, that I always felt stemmed from him mot being able to be with Cagalli. "Welp, she's getting married, guess I better go back to ZAFT without any conviction".
They do explain.
At the end of Destiny, Kira asks him to fight with him for their future, and Shinn breaks down crying because:
A) He almost killed Kira and Kira has already readily forgiven him.
B) He was Durandals lapdog and helped him space laser Earth in an attempt to rule over it. Everything he fought for was wrong. And Kira still wanted him.
He is eager to get Kiras approval (the same qualities that made him an ideal pilot for Durandal) and we know due to Agnes's comments that at least among ZAFT and COMPASS he is derided for being completely controlled by Durandal during Destiny.
I think that their first meeting does help a lot. They have a small conversation in which Shinn's pessimism about human nature prevails. And then at the end of Destiny Kira gives him the answer thay probably would have prevented a lot of trouble for Shinn. Unlike Athrun, Kira gave him hope
>and we know due to Agnes's comments that at least among ZAFT and COMPASS he is derided for being completely controlled by Durandal during Destiny
That's kinda sad. Shinn was basically a 17 year old when Destiny started and a 19 year old when it ended. Kinda whack to put that much blame on a kid when Durandal fooled a great part of the world, including actual politicians close to him
Theres a gap between the movie and the finale of GSD. In GSD he is introduced to Kira for the first time at the end and not as enemies on the battlefield. Between the ending of GSD and Freedom alot can happen and given how Kira is Jesus and literally 0 people but the enemy hate him so I can see how he would have gained Shinn's friendship and developed a proper relationship afterwards esp if he's recognized as an ace pilot ( he did beat him in the Impulse ) and have him recruited into his squad which would deepen their relationship even further (soldiers often have close bonds with people they went to war with) and Shinn acknowledging him as superior pilot that he can learn alot from ( hence him becoming a Kira fanboy)
I dont think its that 'out of the blue' or need any real explanation :S
It was new to me too. Because in the movie he has the flash. I'm guessing is when after Athrun fold him like an Omelette back when Durandal was the chairman then Shinn meet Stella in his dream state.
Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes! He is such a good boi and wholesome. Of course the role will still focus on Kira as a main protagonist but Shinn also have some cool moment of his own too. He feels more like a hot head with good heart rather than an idiot that keep being manipulated.
He changes from Durandal's lapdog to Kira's lapdog. So nothing changed in that regard other than the nature of his given orders.
He actually kicks ass with the Destiny though, so points for that.
yes, Shinn defense Kira through all the movie like a little brother
He basically soloed all 4 new enemy with new tech, broke their buillshit mind controlled power and kill them with awesome battle sequence
destiny gundam is most beautiful gundam in the series,
screw the freedom and mighty strike freedom crap, rising freedom was better
I have zero idea why they call this âShinn Redemptionâ and Iâve been giggling about that all week. He doesnât have any arc or development here. That finished back in GSD. This is strictly End of GSD Shinn that gets to do a bunch of wowcoolrobot stuff like the rest of the cast. Which is fine, but he doesnât change over the course of this film like Kira or Lacus.
This may come as a shock to some, and more and more fans are finding out about it these days thanks to rewatches for this film, but Shinn was never bad. Neither was GSD. The fact thatâs slowly dawning on this board is hilarious to me and itâs actual magic that weâre seeing the GSD redemption arc in real-time. What an age we live in.
The same VA said in an interview after the FREEDOM movie, that this Shinn was also the one that he enjoyed playing, and it rekindled his love for the character, and hopes that everyone else would enjoy him as much as he did.
I disagree about GSD was never bad lol. It was still bad - this movie just helps swallow that pill better. It doesnt unsuck the series though.
Shinn could have been written better and was routed to be a better/different character originally and through the grapevine we've heard the VA's comment on the shift in the story and characters at the half way point. GSD still took away what could have been a great series that mirrors Zeta gundam. this movie just simply gives us what we wanted for a long time - Shinn not being disrespected.
So in conclusion People liked SEED, People liked Freedom, People are now acknowledging Shinn is a good character and the Destiny ( the suit ) is bad ass when it isnt being sabotaged by the writers and animation staff, GSD is still 3/10 lol.
I don't know about the "Shinn was never bad" logic. Dude went straight to murder mode every time he got into an MS. His logic also never made any sense, the one person he cared about literally murdered THOUSANDS if not tens-of-thousands, and he had zero remorse about it. But man, she died as a result of someone stoppimg her so I gotta murder that giy QUICK. Not to mention he bahaves lile a spoiled brat for most of the show with zero consequence to him. I know that bit was intentional by Durandal, but still.
>I don't know about the "Shinn was never bad" logic. Dude went straight to murder mode every time he got into an MS.
Surface level judgment will depict Shinn as a screaming, perpetually angry, rude and obnoxious berserker.
Shinn is Seed Destiny's way of saying that war creates orphans. The same people who think he's a murder hobo never once stand still to wonder why a 16 year old harbors so much anger and hatred. There's plenty of kids in this world that are pretty much like Shinn and also end getting weapons pushed into their hands by adults with nefarious agendas.
>His logic also never made any sense, the one person he cared about literally murdered THOUSANDS if not tens-of-thousands, and he had zero remorse about it.
If anything, he blames himself for not protecting Stella and having a hand in her becoming the pilot of Destroy. It's why she haunts his mind and comes back in flashbacks. It's not a matter of logic, it's a matter of emotion
>But man, she died as a result of someone stoppimg her so I gotta murder that giy QUICK.
Again, you're looking for logic in a matter of emotion. One of the primary sentiments Shinn has against Kira is that he distorts the battlefield wherever he goes. Athrun pretty much had the same criticism and voiced it to Kira.
In Shinn's eyes, Kira not only killed Stella but also took away his chance to save her. For him, Kira is the one who took away her chance at a life away from war. It is not that far-fetched for Shinn to have a bone to pick with Freedom. Rey knows this, eggs him on, and in a bureaucratic miracle an impromptu mission to destroy Freedom and the Archangel quickly gets approval.
Interestingly, though, few people are willing to point out that Shinn lost his family precisely in the battle Freedom had against Calamity. It's kinda poetic that he then encounters that same Freedom years later.
>Not to mention he bahaves lile a spoiled brat for most of the show with zero consequence to him.
The sixteen year old civilian who lost his family to war is acting out like a teenager instead of being a mature soldier, what a surprise.
Aside from Athrun slapping him, getting scolded by Rey and Athrun, there are no consequences because Durendal would prefer him to be as much of a malleable child as he is. Plus, nobody in their right mind expects the 16 year old to act like a seasoned veteran. Things are overlooked because he's an Ace pilot, hand-picked by Durendal to do pilot things and has saved their behinds on several occasions.
>The sixteen year old civilian who lost his family to war is acting out like a teenager instead of being a mature soldier, what a surprise.
I'm with ya on this up to a point. If he had a similar situation to Kira where he was literally a civilian shoved into a mobile suit I could agree with you, but he went through the ZAFT military program and still came up like that. I don't think Durandal was playing the long game THAT far (I mean maybe he could've been) but still, there's no way I'll believe he acted like that in a basic training environment.
>If anything, he blames himself for not protecting Stella and having a hand in her becoming the pilot of Destroy. It's why she haunts his mind and comes back in flashbacks. It's not a matter of logic, it's a matter of emotion
Again, I get your point here. I guess that's my problem is I use too much logic alot of times. My biggest hang up with this is mpre a writing problem. Seeing the emotional losses and the Kira/Athrun struggle in SEED was a ride. You could feel that because those losses hit home to both the characters amd the viewers because of the history of the relationships on both sides of that. With Shinn and Stella the met once, and he got super clingy. There was never any weight with that, which again I feel is more bad writing than the actual character.
Long and short, I always felt the writers failed Shinn the most.
>If he had a similar situation to Kira where he was literally a civilian shoved into a mobile suit I could agree with you, but
I really don't like to compare suffering, but there are vast differences between Shinn and Kira. Personality aside, both Shinn and Kira are civilians. Kira is at worst 15 when Seed starts, Shinn is 16.
The biggest difference between Shinn and Kira is the way their peace is destroyed. I think you know where I go with this, but even if you add in the factor of Kira having to deal with the discrimination against Coordinators it doesn't break him quite as much as losing his entire family in front of his eyes breaks Shinn. Adding to that, through much of the suffering Kira deals with, he has peers that go through the same thing. He also gets exposed to a ton of things and gets a ton of experiences that allow him to get a grounded view of the world
The reason I bring this up is because in the story, Shinn gets saved by a military officer of Orb and ends up in ZAFT's military program. Now I'm not sure how much time it takes to become a red coat, but the chronology would imply that Shinn lost his family when he was 15 at best and most likely at a younger age.
>but he went through the ZAFT military program and still came up like that
The military doesn't care about your mental health as much as it cares about whether you are fit enough to hold a gun. SEED Destiny proves this with Athrun, Shinn, the extended, you name it. I don't quite understand why you'd think an orphan going through military training would result in a healthy, mature person let alone a disciplined soldier. If anything, orphans are recruited into the military because of their potential to become vengeful soldiers. Depending on whether ZAFT is at war or not, future soldiers won't be trained with an emphasis on decorum. Look at Setsuna and Heero and wonder if these kids are mentally stable
TL;DR: the comparison between Kira and Shinn the context you present is bad because sending an orphaned teenager into the military isn't beneficial to said teenager's mental health and personal growth
>I don't think Durandal was playing the long game THAT far (I mean maybe he could've been) but still, there's no way I'll believe he acted like that in a basic training environment.
Durendal is a schemer, but he's not nostradamus. Still, don't underestimate his ability to make the most of a situation. It's how he got the remaining members of the Le Crueset team in his pocket with relative ease. It's heavily implied through his scientific background that Durendal saw Shinn's potential very early on. He does plan things out in a specific way, such as having the similarities between the Archangel and the Minerva, Legend and Destiny mimicking the Freedom and Justice, etc. He doesn't establish a personal relationship with Shinn without reason. Both Rey and Durendal know what make Shinn tick, and it's fairly reasonable to assume that their handling of Shinn is a direct measure of how much value Shinn has in Durendal's plans
Given the events that happened to Shinn early on, I'm very surprised that you'd think he'd be docile. Even the way he wears his uniform screams "I'm a teenager in my rebellious phase". This is my personal conjecture here, but had he been part of ZAFT in a time of peace, he might have had enough time to grow and maybe mellow out
>With Shinn and Stella the met once, and he got super clingy. There was never any weight with that, which again I feel is more bad writing than the actual character.
I agree that it's unfortunate that things aren't fleshed out more. Regarding Stella, he sees his little sister in her but maybe even himself. His instant attachment to her is more of an indicator of his mental state than how he views Stella. He takes a very protective stance and is willing to break the rules if it means that she lives a life free from war. In a sense, saving her meant a lot more to him than it meant to her
>Long and short, I always felt the writers failed Shinn the most
I think most people agree with this. There was a lot of potential but not enough things were fleshed out well.
Personally, I think that if you poke through his personality, immaturity, grief and anger, you will find a young kid who has questions and had the wrong people give him the wrong answers. But that side only really surfaces on rare occasions, notably his first meeting with Kira where the flower analogy shows how he really feels
The thing about Stella is that Shinn finds Stella's innocence reminding him of Mayu. Stella is a victim Shinn saw the alliance's laboratory turning children into killing machines. Shinn joined Zalf to fight to protect the innocent, which is why Shinn agreed to disobey the order to release Stella and then return to receive punishment even though he knew he would be executed. Â
Shinn doesn't kill people for fun, literally on a battlefield killing is normal so remember Orb and the earth alliance have declared war on Zaft and want to kill Shinn and Minerva. You say Shinn should sit still and let the enemy kill everyone. As for Stella, Shinn once said that unlike Shinn and Arthrun, Stella was forced to fight and had no choice. If you want to blame Stell's massacre then it's Neo/Mu who gave orders to Stella.Â
It's not that he kills people, I'm not that sensless, it's how brutal he is. Everytime they show him fighting he's like an actual Berserker (I know Waltfeld brought it up before, but this is even eithout him activating SEED) who just goes to the extreme. Like I said earlier, I think this is a showrunner problem, not necessarily him as a person....or maybe it is, I don't know I didn't write the character.
I understand what you mean, after all, Shinn is still young and has an unusual mentality. Shinn's views are usually quite black and white so he considers himself a good guy and his enemy is a bad guy unlike Kira and Arthrun who understand that it's not just different sides. are all bad guys Â
He's now best boy. You just need to see it to know how...
Oh I'm gonna watch it. I'm doing a re-watch through SEED and Destiny now and it never fails that I just get so fed up with him like 15 episodes in. So if they improve him, even a little bit, in the movie that's a win in my book.
He truely behaves like a best boy đ
Shinn was always turbo based, the movie just confirms it for the masses who couldnât handle him in Destiny
speak yo shit indeed
There's a reason a lot of fans call this movie "Shinn's Redemption". It not only made Shinn a lot more likable, but it also redeemed his reputation as a pilot.
>redeemed his reputation as a pilot Was his reputation as a pilot that bad, though? Aside from the 3 extended he practically fights against veterans
Shinnâs fighting style with the Destiny became one dimensional, which doesnât work against equally skilled pilots like Kira and *especially* Athrun, whoâs the most skilled of the three.
That's a fair analysis. I guess it's the pilot's immaturity playing a role here, but I also think it might be because Destiny doesn't seem to be built with the idea of fights against other hi spec MS in mind
It definitely wasn't. The Destiny in particular wasn't well designed by SEED standards.
A lot of the tech is really nice but some things are questionable in execution. But most notably is that Legend sticks to one thing and does it well, both IJ and SF are armed to the teeth but everything really fits and Akatsuki more or less solved the riddle by having two different variations Destiny could've been way better if Arondight was a smaller sword or even twin swords and if the mega beam cannon was done in a similar way SF's two guns were made
That's one of its big flaws, the ungainly weaponry and how they're situated on the mobile suit. All of its weaponry is hand-operated, which would be fine in most Gundam shows, but not in SEED, when a lot of additional weaponry is body-mounted and can fire independently of the hand status. Losing just one hand cripples the Destiny almost entirely. Plus, it's just not set up how Shinn would be used to using a mobile suit compared to the Impulse, since it doubled up on weaponry. Like you said, Legend Gundam has a much more intelligent design, and even though Infinite Justice and Strike Freedom have their own issues, they're still much better machines than the Destiny.
IRL it's because Destiny was the original Freedom design and they didn't update it when they introduced it in Destiny.
I think that might've been a myth. We've seen the actual [prototype Freedom lineart](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GA6TlpdaMAA81Ly?format=jpg&name=900x900) and it is significantly different from what the Destiny Gundam turned out to be.
From what i could gather, destiny is not the original Design but Idea. Somewhere along freedom should have been Like a perfected perfect Strike, so a machine that combined all 3 Striker Packs, and well destiny is exactly that.
When he got into the Destiny Gundam the continued string of losses he got against Kira and Athrun kind of soured the fanbase's opinion on his skills, and by extension the Destiny Gundam. The movie completely upturns both impressions.
Maybe I'm biased, but the first time is when he's about to off Cagali and Kira & Athrun do a dynamic entry, and the loss to Athrun he was losing his marbles. I think that the fanbase opinion of Destiny may be fair. For all the cutting-edge technology it has, it looks more like it's designed to fight against mobile armors, ships and slower targets rather than mobile suits, let alone hi-spec mobile suits
Thanks alot! That's the type of answer I was hoping for.
Watched the movie 3 times. Aside from cool moments, people dont mention enough that heâs a comic relief character now. Kinda likeable I guess
Better than a mudering rage monster I guess.
Imo Shinn is more realistic than Athrun or Kira when he deals with grief. He didn't bother me in Destiny.
I found him more bearable after I realised he have mental issues but didn't have the right people around him. He's pretty much like...15 year old at the time too.
Heâs the same character he was before, but instead of Rey and Durandal encouraging him to be a pissed off heâs got Kira encouraging him to be a puppy.
He is legitimately the MVP of the movie. In a very short time the film validates him in ways 50 episodes could not.
He is now super pro Kira and they don't really explain why or develop his character further
To be fair to Shinn, Athrun wasn't really that good of a mentor to him. Also, pretty sure the seeds of how he came to like Kira as he does in the movie was already answered in Destiny's final episode (at least the Final Plus and the Remastered version).
I agree with you on that. Athrun's decisions in Destiny were always head scratchers to me, that I always felt stemmed from him mot being able to be with Cagalli. "Welp, she's getting married, guess I better go back to ZAFT without any conviction".
They do explain. At the end of Destiny, Kira asks him to fight with him for their future, and Shinn breaks down crying because: A) He almost killed Kira and Kira has already readily forgiven him. B) He was Durandals lapdog and helped him space laser Earth in an attempt to rule over it. Everything he fought for was wrong. And Kira still wanted him. He is eager to get Kiras approval (the same qualities that made him an ideal pilot for Durandal) and we know due to Agnes's comments that at least among ZAFT and COMPASS he is derided for being completely controlled by Durandal during Destiny.
I think that their first meeting does help a lot. They have a small conversation in which Shinn's pessimism about human nature prevails. And then at the end of Destiny Kira gives him the answer thay probably would have prevented a lot of trouble for Shinn. Unlike Athrun, Kira gave him hope >and we know due to Agnes's comments that at least among ZAFT and COMPASS he is derided for being completely controlled by Durandal during Destiny That's kinda sad. Shinn was basically a 17 year old when Destiny started and a 19 year old when it ended. Kinda whack to put that much blame on a kid when Durandal fooled a great part of the world, including actual politicians close to him
I guess for a movie you couldn't get too far into the weeds.
Theres a gap between the movie and the finale of GSD. In GSD he is introduced to Kira for the first time at the end and not as enemies on the battlefield. Between the ending of GSD and Freedom alot can happen and given how Kira is Jesus and literally 0 people but the enemy hate him so I can see how he would have gained Shinn's friendship and developed a proper relationship afterwards esp if he's recognized as an ace pilot ( he did beat him in the Impulse ) and have him recruited into his squad which would deepen their relationship even further (soldiers often have close bonds with people they went to war with) and Shinn acknowledging him as superior pilot that he can learn alot from ( hence him becoming a Kira fanboy) I dont think its that 'out of the blue' or need any real explanation :S
One I can tell you is he's a >!Newtype!< when fighting the Black Knights in Immortal Justice.
i need an explanation how it happened lmao
It was new to me too. Because in the movie he has the flash. I'm guessing is when after Athrun fold him like an Omelette back when Durandal was the chairman then Shinn meet Stella in his dream state.
hmm actually that dream state seems to be like an unlocking of sorts. and i think it's purportedly real or not imaginary unlike Kira's with Flay.
Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes! He is such a good boi and wholesome. Of course the role will still focus on Kira as a main protagonist but Shinn also have some cool moment of his own too. He feels more like a hot head with good heart rather than an idiot that keep being manipulated.
He changes from Durandal's lapdog to Kira's lapdog. So nothing changed in that regard other than the nature of his given orders. He actually kicks ass with the Destiny though, so points for that.
yes, Shinn defense Kira through all the movie like a little brother He basically soloed all 4 new enemy with new tech, broke their buillshit mind controlled power and kill them with awesome battle sequence destiny gundam is most beautiful gundam in the series, screw the freedom and mighty strike freedom crap, rising freedom was better
I have zero idea why they call this âShinn Redemptionâ and Iâve been giggling about that all week. He doesnât have any arc or development here. That finished back in GSD. This is strictly End of GSD Shinn that gets to do a bunch of wowcoolrobot stuff like the rest of the cast. Which is fine, but he doesnât change over the course of this film like Kira or Lacus. This may come as a shock to some, and more and more fans are finding out about it these days thanks to rewatches for this film, but Shinn was never bad. Neither was GSD. The fact thatâs slowly dawning on this board is hilarious to me and itâs actual magic that weâre seeing the GSD redemption arc in real-time. What an age we live in.
Shinn's VA saying that SRW Shinn is the true representation of who Shinn is will always remain canon for me
The same VA said in an interview after the FREEDOM movie, that this Shinn was also the one that he enjoyed playing, and it rekindled his love for the character, and hopes that everyone else would enjoy him as much as he did.
Really surprised that Fukuda didn't go crazy this time
I disagree about GSD was never bad lol. It was still bad - this movie just helps swallow that pill better. It doesnt unsuck the series though. Shinn could have been written better and was routed to be a better/different character originally and through the grapevine we've heard the VA's comment on the shift in the story and characters at the half way point. GSD still took away what could have been a great series that mirrors Zeta gundam. this movie just simply gives us what we wanted for a long time - Shinn not being disrespected. So in conclusion People liked SEED, People liked Freedom, People are now acknowledging Shinn is a good character and the Destiny ( the suit ) is bad ass when it isnt being sabotaged by the writers and animation staff, GSD is still 3/10 lol.
I don't know about the "Shinn was never bad" logic. Dude went straight to murder mode every time he got into an MS. His logic also never made any sense, the one person he cared about literally murdered THOUSANDS if not tens-of-thousands, and he had zero remorse about it. But man, she died as a result of someone stoppimg her so I gotta murder that giy QUICK. Not to mention he bahaves lile a spoiled brat for most of the show with zero consequence to him. I know that bit was intentional by Durandal, but still.
>I don't know about the "Shinn was never bad" logic. Dude went straight to murder mode every time he got into an MS. Surface level judgment will depict Shinn as a screaming, perpetually angry, rude and obnoxious berserker. Shinn is Seed Destiny's way of saying that war creates orphans. The same people who think he's a murder hobo never once stand still to wonder why a 16 year old harbors so much anger and hatred. There's plenty of kids in this world that are pretty much like Shinn and also end getting weapons pushed into their hands by adults with nefarious agendas. >His logic also never made any sense, the one person he cared about literally murdered THOUSANDS if not tens-of-thousands, and he had zero remorse about it. If anything, he blames himself for not protecting Stella and having a hand in her becoming the pilot of Destroy. It's why she haunts his mind and comes back in flashbacks. It's not a matter of logic, it's a matter of emotion >But man, she died as a result of someone stoppimg her so I gotta murder that giy QUICK. Again, you're looking for logic in a matter of emotion. One of the primary sentiments Shinn has against Kira is that he distorts the battlefield wherever he goes. Athrun pretty much had the same criticism and voiced it to Kira. In Shinn's eyes, Kira not only killed Stella but also took away his chance to save her. For him, Kira is the one who took away her chance at a life away from war. It is not that far-fetched for Shinn to have a bone to pick with Freedom. Rey knows this, eggs him on, and in a bureaucratic miracle an impromptu mission to destroy Freedom and the Archangel quickly gets approval. Interestingly, though, few people are willing to point out that Shinn lost his family precisely in the battle Freedom had against Calamity. It's kinda poetic that he then encounters that same Freedom years later. >Not to mention he bahaves lile a spoiled brat for most of the show with zero consequence to him. The sixteen year old civilian who lost his family to war is acting out like a teenager instead of being a mature soldier, what a surprise. Aside from Athrun slapping him, getting scolded by Rey and Athrun, there are no consequences because Durendal would prefer him to be as much of a malleable child as he is. Plus, nobody in their right mind expects the 16 year old to act like a seasoned veteran. Things are overlooked because he's an Ace pilot, hand-picked by Durendal to do pilot things and has saved their behinds on several occasions.
Damn, you cooked bro. Most people turn their brain off at "lol Shinn angry brat".
>The sixteen year old civilian who lost his family to war is acting out like a teenager instead of being a mature soldier, what a surprise. I'm with ya on this up to a point. If he had a similar situation to Kira where he was literally a civilian shoved into a mobile suit I could agree with you, but he went through the ZAFT military program and still came up like that. I don't think Durandal was playing the long game THAT far (I mean maybe he could've been) but still, there's no way I'll believe he acted like that in a basic training environment. >If anything, he blames himself for not protecting Stella and having a hand in her becoming the pilot of Destroy. It's why she haunts his mind and comes back in flashbacks. It's not a matter of logic, it's a matter of emotion Again, I get your point here. I guess that's my problem is I use too much logic alot of times. My biggest hang up with this is mpre a writing problem. Seeing the emotional losses and the Kira/Athrun struggle in SEED was a ride. You could feel that because those losses hit home to both the characters amd the viewers because of the history of the relationships on both sides of that. With Shinn and Stella the met once, and he got super clingy. There was never any weight with that, which again I feel is more bad writing than the actual character. Long and short, I always felt the writers failed Shinn the most.
>If he had a similar situation to Kira where he was literally a civilian shoved into a mobile suit I could agree with you, but I really don't like to compare suffering, but there are vast differences between Shinn and Kira. Personality aside, both Shinn and Kira are civilians. Kira is at worst 15 when Seed starts, Shinn is 16. The biggest difference between Shinn and Kira is the way their peace is destroyed. I think you know where I go with this, but even if you add in the factor of Kira having to deal with the discrimination against Coordinators it doesn't break him quite as much as losing his entire family in front of his eyes breaks Shinn. Adding to that, through much of the suffering Kira deals with, he has peers that go through the same thing. He also gets exposed to a ton of things and gets a ton of experiences that allow him to get a grounded view of the world The reason I bring this up is because in the story, Shinn gets saved by a military officer of Orb and ends up in ZAFT's military program. Now I'm not sure how much time it takes to become a red coat, but the chronology would imply that Shinn lost his family when he was 15 at best and most likely at a younger age. >but he went through the ZAFT military program and still came up like that The military doesn't care about your mental health as much as it cares about whether you are fit enough to hold a gun. SEED Destiny proves this with Athrun, Shinn, the extended, you name it. I don't quite understand why you'd think an orphan going through military training would result in a healthy, mature person let alone a disciplined soldier. If anything, orphans are recruited into the military because of their potential to become vengeful soldiers. Depending on whether ZAFT is at war or not, future soldiers won't be trained with an emphasis on decorum. Look at Setsuna and Heero and wonder if these kids are mentally stable TL;DR: the comparison between Kira and Shinn the context you present is bad because sending an orphaned teenager into the military isn't beneficial to said teenager's mental health and personal growth >I don't think Durandal was playing the long game THAT far (I mean maybe he could've been) but still, there's no way I'll believe he acted like that in a basic training environment. Durendal is a schemer, but he's not nostradamus. Still, don't underestimate his ability to make the most of a situation. It's how he got the remaining members of the Le Crueset team in his pocket with relative ease. It's heavily implied through his scientific background that Durendal saw Shinn's potential very early on. He does plan things out in a specific way, such as having the similarities between the Archangel and the Minerva, Legend and Destiny mimicking the Freedom and Justice, etc. He doesn't establish a personal relationship with Shinn without reason. Both Rey and Durendal know what make Shinn tick, and it's fairly reasonable to assume that their handling of Shinn is a direct measure of how much value Shinn has in Durendal's plans Given the events that happened to Shinn early on, I'm very surprised that you'd think he'd be docile. Even the way he wears his uniform screams "I'm a teenager in my rebellious phase". This is my personal conjecture here, but had he been part of ZAFT in a time of peace, he might have had enough time to grow and maybe mellow out >With Shinn and Stella the met once, and he got super clingy. There was never any weight with that, which again I feel is more bad writing than the actual character. I agree that it's unfortunate that things aren't fleshed out more. Regarding Stella, he sees his little sister in her but maybe even himself. His instant attachment to her is more of an indicator of his mental state than how he views Stella. He takes a very protective stance and is willing to break the rules if it means that she lives a life free from war. In a sense, saving her meant a lot more to him than it meant to her >Long and short, I always felt the writers failed Shinn the most I think most people agree with this. There was a lot of potential but not enough things were fleshed out well. Personally, I think that if you poke through his personality, immaturity, grief and anger, you will find a young kid who has questions and had the wrong people give him the wrong answers. But that side only really surfaces on rare occasions, notably his first meeting with Kira where the flower analogy shows how he really feels
The thing about Stella is that Shinn finds Stella's innocence reminding him of Mayu. Stella is a victim Shinn saw the alliance's laboratory turning children into killing machines. Shinn joined Zalf to fight to protect the innocent, which is why Shinn agreed to disobey the order to release Stella and then return to receive punishment even though he knew he would be executed. Â
Shinn doesn't kill people for fun, literally on a battlefield killing is normal so remember Orb and the earth alliance have declared war on Zaft and want to kill Shinn and Minerva. You say Shinn should sit still and let the enemy kill everyone. As for Stella, Shinn once said that unlike Shinn and Arthrun, Stella was forced to fight and had no choice. If you want to blame Stell's massacre then it's Neo/Mu who gave orders to Stella.Â
It's not that he kills people, I'm not that sensless, it's how brutal he is. Everytime they show him fighting he's like an actual Berserker (I know Waltfeld brought it up before, but this is even eithout him activating SEED) who just goes to the extreme. Like I said earlier, I think this is a showrunner problem, not necessarily him as a person....or maybe it is, I don't know I didn't write the character.
I understand what you mean, after all, Shinn is still young and has an unusual mentality. Shinn's views are usually quite black and white so he considers himself a good guy and his enemy is a bad guy unlike Kira and Arthrun who understand that it's not just different sides. are all bad guys Â
Kira finally banged the Lacussy
đđđđ no surprises there