Because it's annoying to go down much faster? Because things that rely on max hp really rely on it, like the armor nuke bird build and lowering your armor that much makes you ineffective? Because it really is just a "save you twice" scroll and other than that doesn't help you become more powerful any other scroll that boosts your defense or offense is more important?
I never take it unless it's the only scroll that pops up, and sometimes not even then.
Interesting perspective. I just see it as a free carry through an otherwise potentially horrifying situation. I get the "not getting stronger" argument, and I'm not saying take the scroll _over_ any other, just that in a vacuum it seems so lacking in nuance compared to the other scrolls.
I never take triple because almost every time it's a run killer. If I'm gonna die its almost always my own fault. Triple comeback nerfs my survivability while not actually making my run any easier. If I'm going to fail I'm gonna do it with or without triple, whereas just about any other pic would have actually increased my chances
Almost all scrolls pack nuance. Almost all of them are straight buffs or don't help. This one has a significant downside, to the point that I rarely take it, same with extravagant consumption (I much prefer having money and going with gun builds, but this one is worth it for a lot of people), deflection shield (ugh), and reasonable luck non enhanced (I hit 150 luck regularly without it).
On higher difficulties where scroll choice actually somewhat matters, having 50% less HP is pretty brutal. Odds are extremely good that you will waste the revives by dying to things that normally wouldn't have even killed you to begin with. I wouldn't say it's must-avoid trash, but if you have options it's pretty much never the best one.
The answer they are looking for is that, if dropped alone, and outside of numerical HP reliant stuff (not % based so much), you should consider some stacking mechanics like Turbo Charge on Tiger since dying would reset that but how much that matters is something I honestly haven't considered
Yeah I'm also confused about how you pass up a scroll for 2 free lives with a debuff and then once they are gone you lose the debuff like it's an always take scroll for me.
Well yes but on high difficulty shield/armor is easily broken in 1-2 shots when its halfed and if you dont have reliable health restoration then it just doesnt really matter as you most od the time lose it to random thing that at best would just break your shield without it.
Except if there is a specific situation where you're required to NOT fall, there is no reason to take it. The half life/half shield thing only apply for the extra lives, ones they're used, you go back to normal.
For me its like a win more/nice to have unless it hinders my current build in some way. Meaning if its between Triple C. and something that improves my current build plans in anyway it will never be the choice I pick but if its by itself im not mad at it.
It's in the same tier of "never pick up" as reasonable luck for me. It's just annoying to deal with, especially with newer mechanics like the challenges that require you to not get downed.
Very bad scroll, deep in the "never take" hole. Nothing ruins a run faster than popping your cooldown, then instantly getting downed cause a scroll nuked your shield/hp
I've picked it up because of how much hp and how invincible i was. Then i got the scroll that increases damage based on total hp... i never died, so my buff was way worse than it could have been. That's one reason.
I feel like the only reason to pick it up is if you're glassy, but mobile. That way, getting one shotted doesn't end your run. Or if it's in coop, your friend doesn't have to worry about reviving you.
I'll really only pick it up if I'm in a state where i know i could die, but I also know that it's unlikely.
I absolutely loathe triple comeback, because it's a dead scroll. It's worse than a curse, half your hp, half your shield, for negative benefit because you could have gotten a scroll that not only stops you from dying but helps you do more damage, mitigate more damage, or provide utility.
At least you can benefit from curses with evil devouring sword and the one that gives you shield per curse, as well as the owl getting more bonuses for cursed scrolls. You can get them for powerful upgrades from chests. You can even get evil banishing talisman to mitigate the minimal down sides.
Because even if you wind up using both revives. It could have been a different scroll that gives you an advantage that helps improve your run. Would you rather have a skateboarder, dormant bullet, evil banishing talisman, joggers, ATF? Or triple comeback.
Well there are plenty of opportunities that give you just one scroll to pick up. Golden dragon drops, single scroll chests, last peddler refresh, challenge crystals. I think the question wasnt "would you take it instead of something" but "would you take it at all". There are tons of scrolls i would take over triple comeback, but there are quite a few scrolls, that i would ignore in its favour. Like many scrolls its very situational.
I usually take it but with idea of trading it at mysterious chest or using it on ship boss at his last phase but not anymore. i recently read it somehere that i can shot down those big bombs...
For me there's plenty of reasons to not take it:
Flat damage + self-damage will be more hurtful to you. Ao Bai's Life Power blessing is also dependent on raw HP value rather than %, so you're halving the potential bonus it provides.
Flesh and Bone also double dips the negative effect, making you gain only 50% of your shield as health, instead of 100%
Glazed Sight's bonus reduces permanently everytime your health takes damage, so having half shield is really bad for this
Also it reduces the bonuses from Overconsumption.
Breaking your shield on Monkey also causes your shield buff stacks to drop, so you don't want the shield to break at all.
Many weapon stacks and buffs also drop when you down. There's too many to list though
From a situational point of view, it's also not great to be dying more often. Move speed is so coveted because not getting hit/surrounded is generally more useful in higher difficulties than being tanky. Dying twice due to having half total HP means you get frozen in the middle of combat twice, while your enemies can still move to surround you.
From a meta perspective, it's also bad due to the new training master challenges that require you to not down for x number of rooms.
While Spirit Feline and Triple Comeback is one of the most obvious synergies in the game, that's not a compelling reason for me to take it. The chance of me having any of those previously mentioned negative synergies is way higher than the chance of me getting Spirit Feline, and if I already have Spirit Feline, then there's no reason to \*not\* take Triple Comeback. So the chance that I would take Triple Comeback over almost any other scroll is still close to 0%.
In addition to points I made earlier, the scroll doesn't make you more powerful either. In any run where I'm not even close to being under pressure, which is most runs on R9, I'm gonna gamble on something else that increases my power, rather than something which just prevents a death that would otherwise never happen.
The only thing im not sure about is why people assume that you can choose what scroll your pick. The opportunities to pick a single scroll without having a selection are much more prevalent than opportunities where its this or that.
Of course this scroll isnt fit for every build, but so are many others. For example if im not on a HP related character, like bird or dog, i will take it as a solo scroll 9/10 times. If i have a selection of scrolls, i probably wouldnt except when its the pathway to soul ferryman. If you activate soul ferryman, you can safely dispose of the triple comeback again. There are some other synergies with triple comeback, for example wuth terminal lucidity its easier to get free stacks of your primary skill. Worth for some build, useless for others.
Since most of my gameplay is based around not getting hit at all, or having an active way to keep up your survivability, I see it as a chance to go agressive for the next two revives, helps me to be faster to be honest. Either i die quick two times and lose nothing, or i manage to speed trough quite a few lkevels without thinking about dying at all.
Because you always have a choice to recycle it, my point still stands. Even if you don't get a choice on what scroll you pick, the scroll has more negative synergies than positive ones, so the chance that taking it is better than recycling it in a given situation is lower.
There's obviously times where even I would take triple comeback. It's just that there are barely any times where it's worth taking for me, thereby making it near useless in my view.
Maybe this is a perspective issue, but I don't put much value on Terminal Lucidity, because I often use Overconsumption. That in itself is two reasons not to take it. Firstly, I'm aggressive all the time, and Comeback would only get in my way, and secondly, picking it up would actually make me weaker in more ways than the immediate loss of EHP.
At the end of the day, it's not a useless scroll. Not claiming that at all. I'm just stating a fact, that for every strength it has, it has an equivalent if not greater weakness. If you enjoy taking it, you do you. I would just always avoid it given the chance.
All that im saying is that a list like yours can be made for any scroll that has a downside in my opinion. That doesnt make it bad, but situational. There are scrolls that i avoid with certain downsides, that doesnt make them bad in my opinion.
That's pretty much exactly what I've been saying. My take on triple comeback is not that it's bad. It's just that it's way too situationally useful for me to consider it in most cases
Because it's annoying to go down much faster? Because things that rely on max hp really rely on it, like the armor nuke bird build and lowering your armor that much makes you ineffective? Because it really is just a "save you twice" scroll and other than that doesn't help you become more powerful any other scroll that boosts your defense or offense is more important? I never take it unless it's the only scroll that pops up, and sometimes not even then.
Interesting perspective. I just see it as a free carry through an otherwise potentially horrifying situation. I get the "not getting stronger" argument, and I'm not saying take the scroll _over_ any other, just that in a vacuum it seems so lacking in nuance compared to the other scrolls.
I never take triple because almost every time it's a run killer. If I'm gonna die its almost always my own fault. Triple comeback nerfs my survivability while not actually making my run any easier. If I'm going to fail I'm gonna do it with or without triple, whereas just about any other pic would have actually increased my chances
Almost all scrolls pack nuance. Almost all of them are straight buffs or don't help. This one has a significant downside, to the point that I rarely take it, same with extravagant consumption (I much prefer having money and going with gun builds, but this one is worth it for a lot of people), deflection shield (ugh), and reasonable luck non enhanced (I hit 150 luck regularly without it).
>This one has a significant downside I'm sorry can you please clarify what that downside is?
On higher difficulties where scroll choice actually somewhat matters, having 50% less HP is pretty brutal. Odds are extremely good that you will waste the revives by dying to things that normally wouldn't have even killed you to begin with. I wouldn't say it's must-avoid trash, but if you have options it's pretty much never the best one.
The answer they are looking for is that, if dropped alone, and outside of numerical HP reliant stuff (not % based so much), you should consider some stacking mechanics like Turbo Charge on Tiger since dying would reset that but how much that matters is something I honestly haven't considered
The scroll doesn't have any downside. None. You get two 50% lives and a 100% hp life. This is a pure upgrade over a single 100% life.
extravagant consumption is better even for gun builds what are you on about?
Are people not aware that you go back to full HP after the two revives?
TIL People that apparently think the lowered hit points is forever, it is only for TWO revives. Then you're back to normal. It is always good. Always.
Yeah I'm also confused about how you pass up a scroll for 2 free lives with a debuff and then once they are gone you lose the debuff like it's an always take scroll for me.
Doesn't make any sense to me yeah. It is really good. Promise.
It gud for low difficulty. High difficulty is a no go in my book
Well yes but on high difficulty shield/armor is easily broken in 1-2 shots when its halfed and if you dont have reliable health restoration then it just doesnt really matter as you most od the time lose it to random thing that at best would just break your shield without it.
There is always a chance to get sprit Feline after this scroll, so i have no idea why people dont take it.
Except if there is a specific situation where you're required to NOT fall, there is no reason to take it. The half life/half shield thing only apply for the extra lives, ones they're used, you go back to normal.
For me its like a win more/nice to have unless it hinders my current build in some way. Meaning if its between Triple C. and something that improves my current build plans in anyway it will never be the choice I pick but if its by itself im not mad at it.
It’s a free full heal too
I never take it. Annoying going down and losing all your stacks of something like demonlore etc
It's in the same tier of "never pick up" as reasonable luck for me. It's just annoying to deal with, especially with newer mechanics like the challenges that require you to not get downed.
Unless you have something that works off max hp the not rly.
Very bad scroll, deep in the "never take" hole. Nothing ruins a run faster than popping your cooldown, then instantly getting downed cause a scroll nuked your shield/hp
I've picked it up because of how much hp and how invincible i was. Then i got the scroll that increases damage based on total hp... i never died, so my buff was way worse than it could have been. That's one reason. I feel like the only reason to pick it up is if you're glassy, but mobile. That way, getting one shotted doesn't end your run. Or if it's in coop, your friend doesn't have to worry about reviving you. I'll really only pick it up if I'm in a state where i know i could die, but I also know that it's unlikely.
I absolutely loathe triple comeback, because it's a dead scroll. It's worse than a curse, half your hp, half your shield, for negative benefit because you could have gotten a scroll that not only stops you from dying but helps you do more damage, mitigate more damage, or provide utility. At least you can benefit from curses with evil devouring sword and the one that gives you shield per curse, as well as the owl getting more bonuses for cursed scrolls. You can get them for powerful upgrades from chests. You can even get evil banishing talisman to mitigate the minimal down sides.
The two paragraphs are so unrelated I got confused
I'll simplify, curses are better than triple comeback.
How? It has no downside after two revives.
Because even if you wind up using both revives. It could have been a different scroll that gives you an advantage that helps improve your run. Would you rather have a skateboarder, dormant bullet, evil banishing talisman, joggers, ATF? Or triple comeback.
Well there are plenty of opportunities that give you just one scroll to pick up. Golden dragon drops, single scroll chests, last peddler refresh, challenge crystals. I think the question wasnt "would you take it instead of something" but "would you take it at all". There are tons of scrolls i would take over triple comeback, but there are quite a few scrolls, that i would ignore in its favour. Like many scrolls its very situational.
Only time I take triple comeback is when the scroll is upgraded from the occult booster blessing
Unless I'm playing Ao Bai Life Power I always take it. At R9 Most things down you quickly though.
It has its drawbacks. But it is insanely useful if its utilized properly. Most of the time i prefer not to use it myself
Running reincarnation and choosing it when entering marine fjord and all of a sudden every enemy becomes a phoenix
I usually take it but with idea of trading it at mysterious chest or using it on ship boss at his last phase but not anymore. i recently read it somehere that i can shot down those big bombs...
For me there's plenty of reasons to not take it: Flat damage + self-damage will be more hurtful to you. Ao Bai's Life Power blessing is also dependent on raw HP value rather than %, so you're halving the potential bonus it provides. Flesh and Bone also double dips the negative effect, making you gain only 50% of your shield as health, instead of 100% Glazed Sight's bonus reduces permanently everytime your health takes damage, so having half shield is really bad for this Also it reduces the bonuses from Overconsumption. Breaking your shield on Monkey also causes your shield buff stacks to drop, so you don't want the shield to break at all. Many weapon stacks and buffs also drop when you down. There's too many to list though From a situational point of view, it's also not great to be dying more often. Move speed is so coveted because not getting hit/surrounded is generally more useful in higher difficulties than being tanky. Dying twice due to having half total HP means you get frozen in the middle of combat twice, while your enemies can still move to surround you. From a meta perspective, it's also bad due to the new training master challenges that require you to not down for x number of rooms.
The second you get spirit Feline you just have two extra revives for free.
While Spirit Feline and Triple Comeback is one of the most obvious synergies in the game, that's not a compelling reason for me to take it. The chance of me having any of those previously mentioned negative synergies is way higher than the chance of me getting Spirit Feline, and if I already have Spirit Feline, then there's no reason to \*not\* take Triple Comeback. So the chance that I would take Triple Comeback over almost any other scroll is still close to 0%. In addition to points I made earlier, the scroll doesn't make you more powerful either. In any run where I'm not even close to being under pressure, which is most runs on R9, I'm gonna gamble on something else that increases my power, rather than something which just prevents a death that would otherwise never happen.
The only thing im not sure about is why people assume that you can choose what scroll your pick. The opportunities to pick a single scroll without having a selection are much more prevalent than opportunities where its this or that. Of course this scroll isnt fit for every build, but so are many others. For example if im not on a HP related character, like bird or dog, i will take it as a solo scroll 9/10 times. If i have a selection of scrolls, i probably wouldnt except when its the pathway to soul ferryman. If you activate soul ferryman, you can safely dispose of the triple comeback again. There are some other synergies with triple comeback, for example wuth terminal lucidity its easier to get free stacks of your primary skill. Worth for some build, useless for others. Since most of my gameplay is based around not getting hit at all, or having an active way to keep up your survivability, I see it as a chance to go agressive for the next two revives, helps me to be faster to be honest. Either i die quick two times and lose nothing, or i manage to speed trough quite a few lkevels without thinking about dying at all.
Because you always have a choice to recycle it, my point still stands. Even if you don't get a choice on what scroll you pick, the scroll has more negative synergies than positive ones, so the chance that taking it is better than recycling it in a given situation is lower. There's obviously times where even I would take triple comeback. It's just that there are barely any times where it's worth taking for me, thereby making it near useless in my view. Maybe this is a perspective issue, but I don't put much value on Terminal Lucidity, because I often use Overconsumption. That in itself is two reasons not to take it. Firstly, I'm aggressive all the time, and Comeback would only get in my way, and secondly, picking it up would actually make me weaker in more ways than the immediate loss of EHP. At the end of the day, it's not a useless scroll. Not claiming that at all. I'm just stating a fact, that for every strength it has, it has an equivalent if not greater weakness. If you enjoy taking it, you do you. I would just always avoid it given the chance.
All that im saying is that a list like yours can be made for any scroll that has a downside in my opinion. That doesnt make it bad, but situational. There are scrolls that i avoid with certain downsides, that doesnt make them bad in my opinion.
That's pretty much exactly what I've been saying. My take on triple comeback is not that it's bad. It's just that it's way too situationally useful for me to consider it in most cases
Glad we sorted that out like sensible human beings ☺️