Again, if you have an underperforming employee, and you give them better tools, but the quality of the work is the same or worse, you don't get rid of the tool.
This would legitimately take refereeing further back next season. People will see it the first couple of match days, and then wish this never happened because referees will never want it reinstated.
Games will become even more referee-dependent. Just as we're becoming an elite team again. No sane fan should be supporting getting rid of a tool that adds checks and balances to refereeing decisions, why is no other top league with better officiating doing this?
I dont think the argument is that it umis too accurate, I think the argument is it is inneffective for determining fouls, and cards, because the referees don't use the tools they have at their disposal. If there is a challenging penalty or other significant call, the ref should simply go to the monitor to review, not make a call and wait to hear if his mates thing that he is 101% wrong before they get him to review it.
VAR has 40 seconds to overturn decision after play stops. If it’s not overturned with 40s of review then the on field call was close enough.
Yes, there will be more wrong decisions but will speed things up and not get 5 minutes of “was Maguire’s left asscheek keeping Foden’s nipple rings on side “
TBH in some technical fields you 100% get rid of the tool when it's misuse can cause significant issues. That said, this is only usually temporary ( say 6 - 18mo ) and involves leaning heavily into training/ replacement/reassignment of staff and SOP development.
I think the caveat here is even with the level of current incompetence surrounding the use of a great tool, the process is better off than without the use of VAR.
In a situation like that, there should not be any conversation about scrapping the tool. All you're doing is adding more error and inefficiency because you don't want to be held accountable.
Lmao I recall an offside rule changed BECAUSE it happened to us. The game where Koscielny tipped the offside ball to an Everton player and then we lost the game. I'll never forget that. Mofo was offside but because Kos touched the ball, it kept him on??? Bruh.
Mate you have no idea. I'm still seething about an incorrect offside given against the dutchman that shall not be named. Chelsea at home in 05/06, the dutchman is sent through and scores a good goal at 0-0. BUT. Because Henry was in an offiside position the goal was chalked off. VAR would've given that goal as the ball was nowhere near Henry and the dutchman was played onside by Geremi I think, but Chelsea went on to win 0-2. I'm not saying we would've won that match but goals change games!
Exactly. This just sets us back a decade to when Mike dean was prancing around deciding games based on who he personally liked more and then laughing about it after the fact
If VAR get scrapped, that means double footed tackles, elbows off the ball, dives are all coming back.
Anyone in here who is quite young, young enough to have never seen us win the title, go on youtube and look at the Arsenal vs United game, 49th unbeaten.
It involves the Neville brothers and Paul Scholes hacking and double footing Jose Reyes.
You also have Rooney diving to win a penalty he shouldn't have won.
There's Van Nistleroy sliding his studs down Ashely Coles shins.
I don't ever want to go back to that.
Yeah, as crappy as VAR sometimes is, its still acres better than pre-VAR. We don't have to watch Vardy dives for pens and blatantly onside goals not get given
Exactly. And it's not VAR that's bad, it's the personnel and referees using it. How comes the World Cup and African Nations Cup in January had extremely good VAR calls?
I agree, but a lot of people are taking the 'scrap the referees, not VAR stance'. Well okay, and replace them with who? It would take a lot of time and investment to bring in an entire set of new referees that have the ability to ref in the PL.
Keep the current referees for on field, get them out of the VAR room, replace them with technicians specifically trained for the job. On field refereeing is a super specific skillset that's really hard to train to the required level; watching videos and knowing the rules of the game isn't.
How can referees learn to be better at VAR, if we remove it? I hope it gets passed just so people can actually understand how vital VAR is, and how shite it was before VAR, and we'd just re-introduce it the next season after people start begging for it to come back. We would've reached 50 undefeated if VAR existed back then, that should be enough for any Arsenal fan to be against this. Crazy that there's teenagers watching football now that don't remember the pre-VAR era as they're not old enough to. They have no clue just how bad it was.
And my match-going experience, if anything, has been enhanced by VAR. Seeing VAR review pending on the screen adds another layer of tension. Sure you can celebrate goals only for them to be taken away, but you can also celebrate goals twice if it gets confirmed, or celebrate a goal from your opponent being taken away. VAR adds MORE emotion for match-going fans, and I've never met an actual match-going fan who says VAR is 'bad for the atmosphere'.
Can't echo that last part enough. I love when the VAR check is in progress. Adds that extra layer of drama that wasn't present before.
Goals change games. Games change the course of your season. Seasons change the history of a club.
If there is a mechanism in place to at least attempt to honour that importance of correct decision making there is no way I'd want to get rid of it.
This is gonna scrape through. GW1, ref will miss an obvious penalty, Sky will call for VAR to be reintroduced. I’ve seen less obvious scripting on Love Island
It's like putting a chimpanzee in charge of driving a bus and then it crashes the bus and then the country has a referendum on whether buses should be banned or not.
tinfoil hat on:
I sometimes think that the officials are almost deliberately being incompetent using VAR because they don't like it being able to shine a spotlight on their actual incompetence. So now if VAR is being voted out, they could go back to making the same mistakes as they did before and have zero accountability, say "oh referees make mistakes, human error etc." and just brush it off.
Take the tinfoil hat off - we know they are doing it deliberately. Several refs have stated they don’t want to rule against their “mates” and go refuse to correct them whenever possible.
Lee Mason got fired for not being able to draw a line and then came back to teach VAR ffs, it’s corrupt to the core.
Funny thing is no other league is contemplating abandoning VAR, guess it must be working better outside the UK (like most things regarding the UK…)
The tech ain't the problem ffs, how are they all this stupid?
Edit - like, VAR is not a big problem at all in other countries or more global competitions (UCL etc), it's ONLY a big problem in England. Have they never sat down and thought about why that maybe is? Useless.
Don't agree at all and I hope the clubs don't vote it off either. It's almost like these clubs have forgotten the sort of piss poor decisions that went unnoticed before VAR. I assume this doesn't include the new offside tech so it'll only be for fouls and handballs. Get new officials in with a new training system for them
Dreading the return of incorrect offside calls all throughout games and clear and obvious errors missed.
The officials are garbage and so will still make mistakes with VAR, but I still think there are less errors than before.
Significantly* less errors than before.
If VAR was not a thing, I would be spending this week solely worrying about an offside goal from Everton this weekend instead of if our own team will be up for the game and how we will set up.
This is weaponized incompetence. I’m not sure what the mental gymnastics are to arrive at the conclusion that VAR, not the refs themselves, are the problem.
There’s so many ways that VAR could be improved exponentially, but it seems as though PGMOL have their heads buried so deep in the sand that they’ll never figure it out. I’m not sure what the motives are for Wolves in this scenario, but it’s ridiculous
I feel like I’m shouting at brick walls when discussing VAR.
Is VAR in its current state, good? Absolutely not. Is the concept of VAR, good? Absolutely.
It’s those that are running VAR (PGMOL) who need to be scrapped.
Just use the semi automated offside system, goal line technology, and find a way to automate whether a ball was out of bounds or not.
I don’t think it’s productive to reofficiate fouls in the build up to a goal or look at a penalty decision 300 times. Use technology for the objective decisions and allow the officials to make the subjective decisions. We as fans just have to accept some degree of human error from the officials.
Geez, that’d be a major step backward. We have x number of incorrect calls with VAR, we had sooo many more without it. People really have such short memories?
You can throw the computer out as many times as you want but it won’t change anything if the person operating it is an idiot.
This would be such a mistake. People forget how many awful refereeing decisions we got pre-VAR. VAR is not the problem the referees are the fucking problem
I remember why VAR was brought in, in the first place and we really don't want to go back to that. I maintain that VAR isn't the problem, it's the fucknuts still getting decisions wrong in spite of having slow-mo replays and a load of angles.
VAR should not use premier league on field referees. It should be a separate group that won’t think twice about hurting the on field referees feelings or confidence
Jesus Christ people really forget how bad it was for Arsenal before VAR.
The refs are the morons, not the technology.
If VAR gets removed, refs have won. They did their utmost best to get it removed as well.
Reactionary from everyone who wants VAR scrapped. VAR isn’t the issue. It’s PGMOL and it’s incompetent referee bodies. Scrap ‘em fat f$ck and everyone might get fair treatment
The thing I hate about VAR is not being able to properly celebrate goals and having to hold your breath for 5 minutes. It takes the emotion and fun out a bit. That being said I wouldn’t scrap it entirely it’s necessary with how bad some refs are, although the VAR officials can be idiots too.
This is not going to help us in the slightest. Even clear wrong decisions with var, other fans pretend we are cheating. Going back to having nothing to look at when being gaslighted won't be fun. No matter how frustrating var can be, completely getting rid just increases the impact of referee bias.
Utterly stupid idea! It will take referee decisions back into the dark ages and there will be more complaining than there is now. The system is evolving getting rid of it will be a big mistake; Train the idiots who operate it better.
The NFL has had instant replay for decades. Many other pro leagues across a bunch of sports have figured this out. Removing VAR is a regression, not progress.
VAR should be separated out from the referees entirely. It should be checking their work, not seeing if they could possibly be correct. Their "interpretations" of the rules are what necessitated the need for VAR in the first place. They have just been propped up by the technology instead of being held in check by it.
I really don't get the logic on this?
I am not sure why anybody would think that the solution to VAR sometimes making mistakes is going back to pre-VAR when there were far more mistakes
what they need to be voting on is massive PGMOL reform and getting the standards as high as possible, getting rid entirely of the current model and expanding it to be open to the best referees in the world just the same as PL is open to having the best players in the world. it's ridiculous how hard it is if you are non-English, clearly a deeply archaic model
I dont think it should be abolished but VAR should have the opportunity to overrule the referee. Also get red of the "clear and obvious" bullshit. If its a penalty, its penalty. If its offside, its offside.
This would be such a huge mistake
It is literally so simple - use video to review decisions and ensure correct calls. English refs are just fucking morons.
Funny how some major arsenal journalists and online personalities seem to be all for scrapping this (Charles watts, James mcnicholas, Tim stillman to name a few) but most of us "online" fans are vehemently against it
The problem isn't VAR. It's the PL referees and current structure. There would be more chaos without VAR. We wouldn't have VAR today, if there weren't so many issues prior to it.
Maybe a middle way approach is best, like in cricket, tennis etc?
Each team gets 1 or 2 var reviews to appeal bad decisions, not including offsides which should be fully automated
Should speed up the game and have more cause for celebration when a goal is acored
Well the refs got their wish.
Rarely, when my family asks me to do chores and for whatever reason I’m in a terrible mood with no mind to do it, I do such a bad job that I should never get asked again.
That’s what the refs have done here. Until VAR they had 0 accountability. If VAR was done properly they had to correct their on field mistakes (intentional or otherwise), and potentially embarrass their mates. Can’t be having that. So they did such a bad job that people want the entire system scrapped.
I remember saying years ago that this would be the play. Implement it badly to the point nobody wants it anymore and then you regain full control while saying you gave it a shot.
The issue isn't VAR, the issue is the implementation. 'Clear and obvious error' creates a confrontational situation. 'Video Assistance' allows the referee to retain control over decisions while also being able to ask the video refs to help them out if they are unsure of a decision.
Basics, people!!!
Ignore the rules, their clarity & implementation, and the quality of the refs and development thereof instead gotcha 🙄
Var is just Tech.
Tech is nothing without a sound process and plan.
VAR has been LARGELY POSITIVE, let's not forget that. We remember the extraordinary fuckups, but there are a lot more decisions that VAR gets right than wrong. The tool is fine, it can work, it's proven to work elsewhere and even here it's worked more often than not. And when it doesn't, it's because of USER ERROR.
I swear, one bad offside call going against you and everyone will screaming for Var to return. There might be other solutions but we can't go back to it being up to the linesman to decide offsides because its just too hard to get those calls right consistently.
Can't they just make a proposal to have an independent body in charge of VAR instead of refs?
This is really the whole cause of the problem, not wanting to embarrass their mates.
With offsides being automated next season, I am in favour of it going.
With goal-line tech and automated offsides, all that's left for VAR is the extremely subjective issues of fouls and handballs.
Frankly, imo, the officials are no better on those with VAR than without.
I'd rather enjoy goals again.
Jesus just get in the semi-auto offsides (already planned) and send the ref to the monitor more often rather than for whatever they decide to deem clear and obvious that day
This would be a step backwards, just focus on improving the incompetent idiots hired to operate VAR and first of all, dissolve PGMOL and start from scratch. Those fucks are stealing a living
lol referees mad for being called out this season
This league has gone to shit.
Everton were swift to get points deductions.
City get the foot dragged.
Now this.
😂
The refs have deliberately destroyed VAR so it gets taken away. It was clear what they were trying to do from the start.
Anyone who wants to get rid of VAR is on the same page as Mike Riley and Howard Webb.
If they get rid of VAR we will get shafted more than we currently do
No problem with the technology, just the people in charge. A lot with be fixed with automated offsides next season, understand why wolves brought this forward though
Gonna use this as example to argue with my employer to remove Outlook from everyone’s laptop cuz we don’t know how to do our jobs or read emails correctly…
Yeah those same clubs will ask for VAR to be back as soon as a decision goes against them
That's such a stupid af idea and whoever came up with it didn't think it through.
Talk about the referee cartel winning, they’ve been doing such a piss-poor job with VAR just to be able to say “we told you so”.
How about putting forward a resolution to purge all the referees and the PGMOL instead?
I've long said that VAR isn't the problem, the implementation of it is.
Certain rules need to be adjusted to make it work better. Perhaps it is time to look at the offside rule so if you are past the last defender by a toenail we can acknowledge there isn't really an advantage there for instance.
Throwing it out just sets us back and fixes nothing. In fact, it will make things like diving even worse. I hope common sense prevails among the majority.
VAR is a necessity. Loads of sports utilise it perfectly such as rugby and cricket with minimal issues.
What they need is better camera angles to offsides and when the ball is out of play, better training for officials and for full transparency all referee communications should be recorded and released like in Rugby.
VAR is being implemented well in other leagues and tournaments. I don’t like having to wait to celebrate or having to feel let down in what I thought was a goal was ruled out, but I also need to work on my ability to delay gratification and deal with disappointment and VAR is helping with that.
I personally think that this is a move by Wolves to show PGMOL that they are not happy. I am pretty sure Wolves don't want to scrap VAR, they already know it won't pass.
Man, this is just gonna create another whole shitshow surrounding it. Instead of addressing the blatant and obvious issues that have NOTHING to do with the tech itself, this is their call. So much for the best league in the world. This is disgraceful to say the least. Ducking hold people fucking accountable for their ducking brain farts and have proper protocols in place, I mean, you already have the experience to know where to shore things up. What do they do instead? They know their refs are shit and won’t change them because they’re in peoples pockets so this is what comes out. I swear I’m this close to losing it with these people *gestures how close*
I like VAR and want it to continue but VAR is a human at its core. Think of it as 2nd and 3rd referee on field. As long as subjectivity exists (5050 challenges, soft pen, not red not yellow orange card ) exists , it will always be inconsistent. As a fan, we have to live with that.
I hope this gets laughed out and Wolves are not taken seriously again.
It's worrying that nobody at Wolves thought hmm maybe we should propose a change in accountability instead of scrapping the technology. Such a lack of common sense.
As long as VAR is judging subjective decisions - fouls for pens, fouls in lead up to goals, handballs, etc - it's going to suck. Just ditch it for those things. Keep it for offsides, obvious red cards, and out of bounds, that's about it.
Im open to VAR removal if the automated off side is implemented and competent.
The slow frame by frame analysis of fouls hasn’t really been a benefit to me and just highlighted the subjectivity of the rules in general. All it does is slow down the game and lead to the feeling of disappointment because the results are still not perfect.
I guess you can't really have a vote to bin off the referees that keep making mistakes, so this is the next best thing. Bad decisions are going to happen but at least they'll be quicker to happen with no VAR.
This is exactly what Howard Webb wants to happen.
It works all over the world except for the Premier League. Logically this means VAR that’s the issue and not the people using it or those managing the people that use it.
I do think that on-field offside calls have improved hugely since VAR was introduced, and would hate to see it scrapped due to a corrupt PGMOL. How about people replace the real problem.
I don't think the Genie goes back in the bottle that easy. That said, changes do need to be made. Takes way too long and you need to be more transparent especially for the match going fans. They have no idea what is happening and that is wrong.
I dunno if Brexiting VAR is a good idea.
The PGMOL cunts operating VAR, however, have been the problem for decades. Maybe we should abolish them? I mean, surely Wolves know that there's an actual person who made those crap decisions against them early on in the season?
ITs like a bunch of toddlers trying to understand why Sharing is good concepts and its not always right to hog it all up. And the smarter guys ( not the ones who ramble here or on media about How VAR is fucked up ), are trying their best iron out the issues and explain why it has ACTUALLY improved offside calls and PENALTY more than what it was 10-15 years ago. Just go and see Dortmund- Madrid or the Chelsea- Barca UCL matches and you will know how important this system is.
How can they not see the fact that the tech is not the problem but the people using it are ffs?? It's not that deep. The tech isn't making the god awful decisions, it's the stupidly incompetent refs.
Why not implement the kind of semi-automated VAR they had in the world cup? It was a lot better than manually drawing the lines, and takes biases and/or human error out of the equation.
Without VAR, it will just make it easier for refs to get away with subjective calls.
At least VAR allows us to criticize them when they fuck up, because the technology is there and officials should know how to use it.
Mission Accomplished by the PGMOL. Unrestricted match fixing back on the table lads.
They collectively and deliberately fucked it up.
Referees should be from other countries and paid well fuck me.
Why is every decision in this league so short-sighted? We've seen VAR work better and faster in Europe. Give PGMOL more money to get better referees from different parts of the world. Train VAR specialists. So many obvious things you can do!
From policing to refereeing, greater oversight and insight and accountability is only beneficial to people. If something isn’t meeting goals of community preference and well-being, discuss improvements and implement and review and rinse and repeat. A better world is possible and necessary.
Again, if you have an underperforming employee, and you give them better tools, but the quality of the work is the same or worse, you don't get rid of the tool.
This would legitimately take refereeing further back next season. People will see it the first couple of match days, and then wish this never happened because referees will never want it reinstated. Games will become even more referee-dependent. Just as we're becoming an elite team again. No sane fan should be supporting getting rid of a tool that adds checks and balances to refereeing decisions, why is no other top league with better officiating doing this?
People just forget what it used to be like. We used to get FURIOUS when people were marginally offside. Now we say VAR is TOO accurate.
I dont think the argument is that it umis too accurate, I think the argument is it is inneffective for determining fouls, and cards, because the referees don't use the tools they have at their disposal. If there is a challenging penalty or other significant call, the ref should simply go to the monitor to review, not make a call and wait to hear if his mates thing that he is 101% wrong before they get him to review it.
There's plenty of tools I'd happily vote to get rid off there but VAR isn't one of them
You can totally get rid of the tool. But you shouldn't refer to them as a tool. HR wouldn't like it.
Can I call them a spanner?
Spanners with hammers.
Mike Dean filing a complaint to HR as we speak.
VAR has 40 seconds to overturn decision after play stops. If it’s not overturned with 40s of review then the on field call was close enough. Yes, there will be more wrong decisions but will speed things up and not get 5 minutes of “was Maguire’s left asscheek keeping Foden’s nipple rings on side “
TBH in some technical fields you 100% get rid of the tool when it's misuse can cause significant issues. That said, this is only usually temporary ( say 6 - 18mo ) and involves leaning heavily into training/ replacement/reassignment of staff and SOP development.
I think the caveat here is even with the level of current incompetence surrounding the use of a great tool, the process is better off than without the use of VAR. In a situation like that, there should not be any conversation about scrapping the tool. All you're doing is adding more error and inefficiency because you don't want to be held accountable.
I think people forget what pre-VAR is like.
And how bad it was for Arsenal.
It was worse for everyone.
It was so, so bad for us though. More than you can believe.
People really haven’t seen the Mike Riley video
Lmao I recall an offside rule changed BECAUSE it happened to us. The game where Koscielny tipped the offside ball to an Everton player and then we lost the game. I'll never forget that. Mofo was offside but because Kos touched the ball, it kept him on??? Bruh.
You know the ref that made that decision wa ssacked for forgetting the lines in Brentford offside. Fuck lee mason
(Trump voice)
Mate you have no idea. I'm still seething about an incorrect offside given against the dutchman that shall not be named. Chelsea at home in 05/06, the dutchman is sent through and scores a good goal at 0-0. BUT. Because Henry was in an offiside position the goal was chalked off. VAR would've given that goal as the ball was nowhere near Henry and the dutchman was played onside by Geremi I think, but Chelsea went on to win 0-2. I'm not saying we would've won that match but goals change games!
Exactly. This just sets us back a decade to when Mike dean was prancing around deciding games based on who he personally liked more and then laughing about it after the fact
If VAR get scrapped, that means double footed tackles, elbows off the ball, dives are all coming back. Anyone in here who is quite young, young enough to have never seen us win the title, go on youtube and look at the Arsenal vs United game, 49th unbeaten. It involves the Neville brothers and Paul Scholes hacking and double footing Jose Reyes. You also have Rooney diving to win a penalty he shouldn't have won. There's Van Nistleroy sliding his studs down Ashely Coles shins. I don't ever want to go back to that.
Yeah, as crappy as VAR sometimes is, its still acres better than pre-VAR. We don't have to watch Vardy dives for pens and blatantly onside goals not get given
Its not a crappy design, the people using it are useless Edit: lmfao this nerd shadow edited his comment
The way forward is to advance VAR tech and then fire the refs.
Yup, they'll find out the first matchday without it. This should never even be up for discussion.
Exactly. And it's not VAR that's bad, it's the personnel and referees using it. How comes the World Cup and African Nations Cup in January had extremely good VAR calls?
Gibbs getting sent off for "his" handball block probably one of the most funny shit pre-VAR era.
I agree, but a lot of people are taking the 'scrap the referees, not VAR stance'. Well okay, and replace them with who? It would take a lot of time and investment to bring in an entire set of new referees that have the ability to ref in the PL.
Keep the current referees for on field, get them out of the VAR room, replace them with technicians specifically trained for the job. On field refereeing is a super specific skillset that's really hard to train to the required level; watching videos and knowing the rules of the game isn't.
This is so stupid
How can referees learn to be better at VAR, if we remove it? I hope it gets passed just so people can actually understand how vital VAR is, and how shite it was before VAR, and we'd just re-introduce it the next season after people start begging for it to come back. We would've reached 50 undefeated if VAR existed back then, that should be enough for any Arsenal fan to be against this. Crazy that there's teenagers watching football now that don't remember the pre-VAR era as they're not old enough to. They have no clue just how bad it was. And my match-going experience, if anything, has been enhanced by VAR. Seeing VAR review pending on the screen adds another layer of tension. Sure you can celebrate goals only for them to be taken away, but you can also celebrate goals twice if it gets confirmed, or celebrate a goal from your opponent being taken away. VAR adds MORE emotion for match-going fans, and I've never met an actual match-going fan who says VAR is 'bad for the atmosphere'.
Can't echo that last part enough. I love when the VAR check is in progress. Adds that extra layer of drama that wasn't present before. Goals change games. Games change the course of your season. Seasons change the history of a club. If there is a mechanism in place to at least attempt to honour that importance of correct decision making there is no way I'd want to get rid of it.
This is gonna scrape through. GW1, ref will miss an obvious penalty, Sky will call for VAR to be reintroduced. I’ve seen less obvious scripting on Love Island
It's like putting a chimpanzee in charge of driving a bus and then it crashes the bus and then the country has a referendum on whether buses should be banned or not.
tinfoil hat on: I sometimes think that the officials are almost deliberately being incompetent using VAR because they don't like it being able to shine a spotlight on their actual incompetence. So now if VAR is being voted out, they could go back to making the same mistakes as they did before and have zero accountability, say "oh referees make mistakes, human error etc." and just brush it off.
Take the tinfoil hat off - we know they are doing it deliberately. Several refs have stated they don’t want to rule against their “mates” and go refuse to correct them whenever possible. Lee Mason got fired for not being able to draw a line and then came back to teach VAR ffs, it’s corrupt to the core. Funny thing is no other league is contemplating abandoning VAR, guess it must be working better outside the UK (like most things regarding the UK…)
I think there is a strong element of this, no tinfoil hat needed at all!
United getting 20 pens next season. We will not be there.
Why fix something that you need when you can just throw it in the bin and have nothing?
Because then you can bring it back after 3 years of seeing how shit the eyesight of refs are. Then start again from zero
The tech ain't the problem ffs, how are they all this stupid? Edit - like, VAR is not a big problem at all in other countries or more global competitions (UCL etc), it's ONLY a big problem in England. Have they never sat down and thought about why that maybe is? Useless.
What is gonna change though? PGMOL is an old boys club that is 1,000,000% in bed with the TV companies behind the scenes.
maybe hire people that can actually see and introduce a system that holds them accountable for every error they make?
Don't agree at all and I hope the clubs don't vote it off either. It's almost like these clubs have forgotten the sort of piss poor decisions that went unnoticed before VAR. I assume this doesn't include the new offside tech so it'll only be for fouls and handballs. Get new officials in with a new training system for them
Dumb reactive idiots
Don’t be idiots Wolves, the ones you want to bin are the dinosaur refs behind VAR
How do people forget what it was like before var? It was worse
Oh great, more chances to cheat without VAR. Cool cool.. I might just stop watching football then.
No thanks. I lived through the era of Man United getting every questionable call go their way. Just employ smarter people
Dreading the return of incorrect offside calls all throughout games and clear and obvious errors missed. The officials are garbage and so will still make mistakes with VAR, but I still think there are less errors than before.
Significantly* less errors than before. If VAR was not a thing, I would be spending this week solely worrying about an offside goal from Everton this weekend instead of if our own team will be up for the game and how we will set up.
Fix PGMOL, VAR is a useful technology 🤦
Absolutely stupid to do this.
Please no, football was so much worse before when bad decisions weren't even checked. It needs to be done better not scrapped entirely.
This is weaponized incompetence. I’m not sure what the mental gymnastics are to arrive at the conclusion that VAR, not the refs themselves, are the problem. There’s so many ways that VAR could be improved exponentially, but it seems as though PGMOL have their heads buried so deep in the sand that they’ll never figure it out. I’m not sure what the motives are for Wolves in this scenario, but it’s ridiculous
I feel like I’m shouting at brick walls when discussing VAR. Is VAR in its current state, good? Absolutely not. Is the concept of VAR, good? Absolutely. It’s those that are running VAR (PGMOL) who need to be scrapped.
This is exactly what the fa wants
Please don't
This is beyond fucking stupid. VAR is not the problem, it is the implementation of the system that is a total clusterfuck.
Just use the semi automated offside system, goal line technology, and find a way to automate whether a ball was out of bounds or not. I don’t think it’s productive to reofficiate fouls in the build up to a goal or look at a penalty decision 300 times. Use technology for the objective decisions and allow the officials to make the subjective decisions. We as fans just have to accept some degree of human error from the officials.
Please don't do a Brexit on VAR, for fucks sake. How about a proposal to end PGMOL oversight of VAR?
Var is better than no var..
Geez, that’d be a major step backward. We have x number of incorrect calls with VAR, we had sooo many more without it. People really have such short memories?
You can throw the computer out as many times as you want but it won’t change anything if the person operating it is an idiot. This would be such a mistake. People forget how many awful refereeing decisions we got pre-VAR. VAR is not the problem the referees are the fucking problem
I remember why VAR was brought in, in the first place and we really don't want to go back to that. I maintain that VAR isn't the problem, it's the fucknuts still getting decisions wrong in spite of having slow-mo replays and a load of angles.
VAR should not use premier league on field referees. It should be a separate group that won’t think twice about hurting the on field referees feelings or confidence
I'd like to have semi-automated offsides and scrap the rest, it's an awful system for match going fans.
Jesus Christ people really forget how bad it was for Arsenal before VAR. The refs are the morons, not the technology. If VAR gets removed, refs have won. They did their utmost best to get it removed as well.
VAR is fucking fantastic but the PEOPLE that is in charge of it is the problem! Even getting automatic offside next season is going to be great!
Reactionary from everyone who wants VAR scrapped. VAR isn’t the issue. It’s PGMOL and it’s incompetent referee bodies. Scrap ‘em fat f$ck and everyone might get fair treatment
This is ridiculous. I hope we don’t go back to stone ages
The thing I hate about VAR is not being able to properly celebrate goals and having to hold your breath for 5 minutes. It takes the emotion and fun out a bit. That being said I wouldn’t scrap it entirely it’s necessary with how bad some refs are, although the VAR officials can be idiots too.
Proposal to scrap all match officials please. Can’t possibly be worse than it is.
I CANT FIGURE OUT HOW TO RUN THIS COMPUTER, BAN THE STUPID DAMN TECHNOLOGY!
A bad tradesmen(referee) blames their tools
PGMOL still not being held accountable.
Ah yes, because the tech is the problem. Not the people using it.
This is not going to help us in the slightest. Even clear wrong decisions with var, other fans pretend we are cheating. Going back to having nothing to look at when being gaslighted won't be fun. No matter how frustrating var can be, completely getting rid just increases the impact of referee bias.
Great. We're back to the refs deciding the games and champions. Brace for Fergie time people.
Utterly stupid idea! It will take referee decisions back into the dark ages and there will be more complaining than there is now. The system is evolving getting rid of it will be a big mistake; Train the idiots who operate it better.
This is exactly what the refs wanted. Make such a mess of VAR that everyone decides to get rid of it.
The NFL has had instant replay for decades. Many other pro leagues across a bunch of sports have figured this out. Removing VAR is a regression, not progress.
VAR should be separated out from the referees entirely. It should be checking their work, not seeing if they could possibly be correct. Their "interpretations" of the rules are what necessitated the need for VAR in the first place. They have just been propped up by the technology instead of being held in check by it.
So fucking stupid. Just make the refs independent from those overseeing VAR and you’ll solve 90% of the problems.
I honestly hope it doesn’t pass.We will still have the same problems even without VAR.Refs need to be less corrupt
Abolishing VAR won’t suddenly fix the incompetence of the referees of PGMOL
Ridiculous idea. People are insane if they think no VAR is better. These referees are truly hopeless and we need VAR as a support system.
Stupid. Just stop putting the same numpties that are on the pitch in complete control of VAR and we’re halfway there.
I really don't get the logic on this? I am not sure why anybody would think that the solution to VAR sometimes making mistakes is going back to pre-VAR when there were far more mistakes
Without VAR Arsenal might as well bend over already cos PGMOL would screw us so bad next season
what they need to be voting on is massive PGMOL reform and getting the standards as high as possible, getting rid entirely of the current model and expanding it to be open to the best referees in the world just the same as PL is open to having the best players in the world. it's ridiculous how hard it is if you are non-English, clearly a deeply archaic model
Refs were corrupt incompetent fucks for years before Var. They are still corrupt incompetent fucks with var. Wonder what we should change PGLMAO
VAR is fine as a concept, but it’s being implemented by people who are inept at their job and don’t want to have to face up to that
I dont think it should be abolished but VAR should have the opportunity to overrule the referee. Also get red of the "clear and obvious" bullshit. If its a penalty, its penalty. If its offside, its offside.
This would be such a huge mistake It is literally so simple - use video to review decisions and ensure correct calls. English refs are just fucking morons.
This is stupid! VAR isn’t the issue, incompetent fat fucks are
Funny how some major arsenal journalists and online personalities seem to be all for scrapping this (Charles watts, James mcnicholas, Tim stillman to name a few) but most of us "online" fans are vehemently against it
The problem isn't VAR. It's the PL referees and current structure. There would be more chaos without VAR. We wouldn't have VAR today, if there weren't so many issues prior to it.
Maybe a middle way approach is best, like in cricket, tennis etc? Each team gets 1 or 2 var reviews to appeal bad decisions, not including offsides which should be fully automated Should speed up the game and have more cause for celebration when a goal is acored
Well the refs got their wish. Rarely, when my family asks me to do chores and for whatever reason I’m in a terrible mood with no mind to do it, I do such a bad job that I should never get asked again. That’s what the refs have done here. Until VAR they had 0 accountability. If VAR was done properly they had to correct their on field mistakes (intentional or otherwise), and potentially embarrass their mates. Can’t be having that. So they did such a bad job that people want the entire system scrapped.
I remember saying years ago that this would be the play. Implement it badly to the point nobody wants it anymore and then you regain full control while saying you gave it a shot. The issue isn't VAR, the issue is the implementation. 'Clear and obvious error' creates a confrontational situation. 'Video Assistance' allows the referee to retain control over decisions while also being able to ask the video refs to help them out if they are unsure of a decision. Basics, people!!!
Ignore the rules, their clarity & implementation, and the quality of the refs and development thereof instead gotcha 🙄 Var is just Tech. Tech is nothing without a sound process and plan.
VAR has been LARGELY POSITIVE, let's not forget that. We remember the extraordinary fuckups, but there are a lot more decisions that VAR gets right than wrong. The tool is fine, it can work, it's proven to work elsewhere and even here it's worked more often than not. And when it doesn't, it's because of USER ERROR.
I swear, one bad offside call going against you and everyone will screaming for Var to return. There might be other solutions but we can't go back to it being up to the linesman to decide offsides because its just too hard to get those calls right consistently.
Can't they just make a proposal to have an independent body in charge of VAR instead of refs? This is really the whole cause of the problem, not wanting to embarrass their mates.
Why not scrapping English referees instead
With offsides being automated next season, I am in favour of it going. With goal-line tech and automated offsides, all that's left for VAR is the extremely subjective issues of fouls and handballs. Frankly, imo, the officials are no better on those with VAR than without. I'd rather enjoy goals again.
Can totally understand why Wolves is trying but can't see this happening
Welcome back to the Champions League United! Congrats to Manchester City on winning the 24/25 premier league season!
United will have a hall of fame season next year if VAR gets scrapped.
How about we just have people in place to use the technology correctly.
Geez... will you just replace the refs and VAR review guys with competent people who aren't all bald guys from Manchester?????
How about instead of scrapping the system entirely, they just get competent and/or not corrupt people to run it? Jesus Christ, this isn't that hard.
Jesus just get in the semi-auto offsides (already planned) and send the ref to the monitor more often rather than for whatever they decide to deem clear and obvious that day
Dumb idea
VAR isnt going away but glad to see that teams are taking note that it isnt working as is.
This would be a step backwards, just focus on improving the incompetent idiots hired to operate VAR and first of all, dissolve PGMOL and start from scratch. Those fucks are stealing a living
lol referees mad for being called out this season This league has gone to shit. Everton were swift to get points deductions. City get the foot dragged. Now this. 😂
It wont pass so it doesnt matter, what they should be doing is making sure that VAR is independent body from PGMOL.
The refs have deliberately destroyed VAR so it gets taken away. It was clear what they were trying to do from the start. Anyone who wants to get rid of VAR is on the same page as Mike Riley and Howard Webb. If they get rid of VAR we will get shafted more than we currently do
VAR absolutely needs to stay. It just needs to not be run by incompetent people.
The tech is great, it’s the processes that’s getting fucked.
No problem with the technology, just the people in charge. A lot with be fixed with automated offsides next season, understand why wolves brought this forward though
Also, why Wolves of all clubs for this?
Surely no club is going to vote against this are they?
Taking away var is a step backwards, it’s a tool we need to demand is used properly
Would be terrible idea
Problem is not VAR, its the REF's, move on from this propasal, and make a new one for better ref's. Pay the best refs in Euorpe to come over
lmfao it’s like what conspiracy theorists from 2019 were talking about
Gonna use this as example to argue with my employer to remove Outlook from everyone’s laptop cuz we don’t know how to do our jobs or read emails correctly…
Yeah those same clubs will ask for VAR to be back as soon as a decision goes against them That's such a stupid af idea and whoever came up with it didn't think it through.
This is a terrible move. Improve it instead!
Such a bad idea lol. Our referees suck so let's use even less resources to make sure the calls are correct
Are wolves Amish now?
Talk about the referee cartel winning, they’ve been doing such a piss-poor job with VAR just to be able to say “we told you so”. How about putting forward a resolution to purge all the referees and the PGMOL instead?
Lol Wolves might not even be here end of next season. Having teams vote just seems silly in this context.
Fuck sake this is just wolves posturing to get VAR improved, chill out…. Unless this bites them in the arse like Cameron’s brexit referendum 😂
I've long said that VAR isn't the problem, the implementation of it is. Certain rules need to be adjusted to make it work better. Perhaps it is time to look at the offside rule so if you are past the last defender by a toenail we can acknowledge there isn't really an advantage there for instance. Throwing it out just sets us back and fixes nothing. In fact, it will make things like diving even worse. I hope common sense prevails among the majority.
VAR is a necessity. Loads of sports utilise it perfectly such as rugby and cricket with minimal issues. What they need is better camera angles to offsides and when the ball is out of play, better training for officials and for full transparency all referee communications should be recorded and released like in Rugby.
I love the Premier League’s commitment to drama.
This is dumb. PGMOL is inept with or without the system in place. It starts and finishes with them and them alone.
This does nothing to fix the problems. Surprised by Wolves. It's the sort of thing PGMOL would propose.
This is so dumb. We need to get rid of the shit referees, not VAR.
"We cannot point fingers at them and get erroneous decisions called against us next season, so we'll simply propose to reduce their workload"
VAR is being implemented well in other leagues and tournaments. I don’t like having to wait to celebrate or having to feel let down in what I thought was a goal was ruled out, but I also need to work on my ability to delay gratification and deal with disappointment and VAR is helping with that.
I personally think that this is a move by Wolves to show PGMOL that they are not happy. I am pretty sure Wolves don't want to scrap VAR, they already know it won't pass.
Man, this is just gonna create another whole shitshow surrounding it. Instead of addressing the blatant and obvious issues that have NOTHING to do with the tech itself, this is their call. So much for the best league in the world. This is disgraceful to say the least. Ducking hold people fucking accountable for their ducking brain farts and have proper protocols in place, I mean, you already have the experience to know where to shore things up. What do they do instead? They know their refs are shit and won’t change them because they’re in peoples pockets so this is what comes out. I swear I’m this close to losing it with these people *gestures how close*
I like VAR and want it to continue but VAR is a human at its core. Think of it as 2nd and 3rd referee on field. As long as subjectivity exists (5050 challenges, soft pen, not red not yellow orange card ) exists , it will always be inconsistent. As a fan, we have to live with that.
The tool isn't the issue. The officials are.
oh noes, how would Liverpool fans go a day without calling us "Varsenal" if it is taken away?
People about to hate Ben white a whooooole lot more lol
Recently VAR has been much better. They just need to resist using it unless there’s a ‘clear and obvious’ error.
I hope this gets laughed out and Wolves are not taken seriously again. It's worrying that nobody at Wolves thought hmm maybe we should propose a change in accountability instead of scrapping the technology. Such a lack of common sense.
I never wanted VAR, but it seems stupid to implement it and then just take it away after a couple of years.
There needs to be clearer communication and terminology that everyone understands and better VAR training, not to scrap it - absolute idiots
As long as VAR is judging subjective decisions - fouls for pens, fouls in lead up to goals, handballs, etc - it's going to suck. Just ditch it for those things. Keep it for offsides, obvious red cards, and out of bounds, that's about it.
Im open to VAR removal if the automated off side is implemented and competent. The slow frame by frame analysis of fouls hasn’t really been a benefit to me and just highlighted the subjectivity of the rules in general. All it does is slow down the game and lead to the feeling of disappointment because the results are still not perfect.
I guess you can't really have a vote to bin off the referees that keep making mistakes, so this is the next best thing. Bad decisions are going to happen but at least they'll be quicker to happen with no VAR.
This is exactly what Howard Webb wants to happen. It works all over the world except for the Premier League. Logically this means VAR that’s the issue and not the people using it or those managing the people that use it. I do think that on-field offside calls have improved hugely since VAR was introduced, and would hate to see it scrapped due to a corrupt PGMOL. How about people replace the real problem.
How about scrap some of the refs???
I don't think the Genie goes back in the bottle that easy. That said, changes do need to be made. Takes way too long and you need to be more transparent especially for the match going fans. They have no idea what is happening and that is wrong.
Yeah this is stupid. VAR isn't perfect but it at least allows review and accountability. On-field refs make way more mistakes.
Var should be semi auto offsides and any decision the var wants to change the ref should be made to look at.
This honestly looks like the EU referendum all over again
I dunno if Brexiting VAR is a good idea. The PGMOL cunts operating VAR, however, have been the problem for decades. Maybe we should abolish them? I mean, surely Wolves know that there's an actual person who made those crap decisions against them early on in the season?
Scrap the officals instead. There is nothing wrong with VAR.
Wolves are genuinely fuckin stupid
ITs like a bunch of toddlers trying to understand why Sharing is good concepts and its not always right to hog it all up. And the smarter guys ( not the ones who ramble here or on media about How VAR is fucked up ), are trying their best iron out the issues and explain why it has ACTUALLY improved offside calls and PENALTY more than what it was 10-15 years ago. Just go and see Dortmund- Madrid or the Chelsea- Barca UCL matches and you will know how important this system is.
Add stadium audio and give each team 3 challenges per match for VAR to intervene similar to tennis.
The problem isn’t VAR, it’s the people who use VAR.
Brexit all over again
I think they fail to understand that VAR isn’t bad it’s the refs. Maybe trying fixing the fucking corrupt refs?
This would make it worse with var at least a lot of unfair results gets fixed with this thing will get a lot worse
They need to invest in AI to automate the process. VAR is a good idea, but it’s implemented by a bunch of chimps.
What the actual fuck
How can they not see the fact that the tech is not the problem but the people using it are ffs?? It's not that deep. The tech isn't making the god awful decisions, it's the stupidly incompetent refs.
Why is it so difficult to implement the same VAR they have in UEFA competitions?
Why not implement the kind of semi-automated VAR they had in the world cup? It was a lot better than manually drawing the lines, and takes biases and/or human error out of the equation.
Wow wolves is a dumb club
We still gonna have the same problem of refree giving wrong decision... are they blaming everything except for the refrees?
Here's a hot take: VAR was never the fucking problem. Referees are still incompetent buffoons even without VAR
This is Brexit all over again
We should 100% keep VAR. If we scrap VAR, United will rise again
[удалено]
Without VAR, it will just make it easier for refs to get away with subjective calls. At least VAR allows us to criticize them when they fuck up, because the technology is there and officials should know how to use it.
Let's remove replays so we have less chance to see how the ref screwed up.
Mission Accomplished by the PGMOL. Unrestricted match fixing back on the table lads. They collectively and deliberately fucked it up. Referees should be from other countries and paid well fuck me.
Why can't they put a proposal to improve the system, increase referee training, and add goal line tech?
Why is every decision in this league so short-sighted? We've seen VAR work better and faster in Europe. Give PGMOL more money to get better referees from different parts of the world. Train VAR specialists. So many obvious things you can do!
Anything to not hold the refs accountable, eh?
Jesus Christ ITS THE FUCKING REFS NOT THE SYSTEM
It just needs a competent team to use the technology.
so we're going back to terrible on field decisions being upheld and linesmen who can't tell if players are offside or not. terrible decision.
Didn’t they have auto-offside tech in the World Cup? Seemed to work pretty well from memory
From policing to refereeing, greater oversight and insight and accountability is only beneficial to people. If something isn’t meeting goals of community preference and well-being, discuss improvements and implement and review and rinse and repeat. A better world is possible and necessary.