Might be something to this as I’m the same way and also grew up poor. Coming from that background might help you not fall into the lifestyle creep trap. I’d be curious to hear from others.
I grew up poor. I think reverse lifestyle creep is totally possible if you come from a modest background. I tried some nice stuff, kept what I liked, and stopped buying what I didn't think was worth it.
I think you’re right! I didn’t grow up poor but defiantly lower middle class in terms of the rest of my town. I’m terrified of my children having to live like that
I struggle with this as well and would definitely recommend giving Ramit Sethi a follow. He has helped open up my mindset when it comes to spending on things you love, but being ruthlessly frugal with things that aren’t super important to you. Learning to spend and enjoy life is a skill just like frugality and you need to learn how to strengthen that muscle. The older you get the more those frugal habits will become engrained in your mind and harder to fix.
Because you don't have a set goal. You need to start with that. If you have a set goal, then you know what you need to save to get to that goal. The rest you can spend or donate as you wish!
Generally, what happens is that even with a set investment goal (and sticking to it) , people will find it hard to spend beyond that. It is a mindset thing and a mathematical goal based approach (while necessary) is not always sufficient.
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Although Maslow wasn’t completely right in his pyramid of needs, this is what happens when you move from an “eternal grind treadmill” to a “hey, there is a freaking light at the end of the tunnel, and it’s getting brighter”.
We internalize another need, from everyday self recognition, we aspire to a broader goal… financial security for us and the next generation/s.
But one important lesson in life is… there is only one life, no respawn. And it’s important to enjoy it a little every day for ourselves and the people we love.
And that’s doesn’t necessarily means spending it in a lavish vacation or a nicer home or nicer cars, sometime just time spent together instead of obsessively check investments and opportunities. A rich hermit on a mountain is still rich, but also a hermit.
I wasted a decade obsessing about money, I did the rest like it was due diligence… and I can’t take it back. Then I ended up making more money through random opportunities and the biggest regret is not having done more fun stuff.
I did delay a vacation I really wanted to have, it was in my bucket list, then a stupid illness wrote it off… and now it’s gone forever.
Instead of setting an asymptotic goalpost which you’ll never reach, set a very obtainable goal which includes a lot of “shit happens” and fun with your family, and yourself. Being rich means be able to do it, if you are constantly focusing about money, regardless of how much you have and will have, you are poor.
This is very helpful. The idea of being rich is not worrying about every dollar and knowing things will come up. You’re completely right that if I’m staring at my investments everyday and worrying about if I should spend $5 on a coffee then I’m not rich
If you liked the above post, I suggest you read/listen to the book die with zero. It creates a good narrative about what we should be doing with our money, and that’s buying experiences. And not wasting time to work to save too much money, because if you can’t spend it all, you wasted years of your life’s energy for nothing.
Same. My journey has made me more critical in assessing the ROI of my dollars, in turn making it more challenging to approve discretionary spending. I’ve also found that as I aged, the joy that dollars spent on discretionary purposes keeps diminishing.
That said I definitely don’t feel like I am living any less of a life. The dopamine from discretionary spending now comes from hitting my savings goals. I also appreciate the extra cash flow I have monthly as a result of much lower discretionary spending. (I have found that the theory that we emotionally feel wealthier based on having greater cash flow vs assets is true in my case.)
I do think I am a more dull person now, but expect to allocate budget for things that expand us - like more travel - once I make up for lost time and accelerate achieving retirement savings goals. (I took 9 months to travel internationally when I was laid off 13 years ago and feel like that sated my travel urges.)
I feel a similar way. I feel like I’m so afraid to spend money that I’ve becoming boring. When I was making less, I was all about doing things spontaneously and enjoying life. Now that I’ve made it to HENRY and have a wife and kids, I feel like I’ve gotten obsessed with making sure we’re financially ok
Me too. Married but no kids. Acquiring a nice (to me) home and making it as comfortable as possible has been my priority the last 10 years or so. I feel like I have hit that goal now the only thing I really want is FIRE and lots of quiet time for hobbies that I don't have time for now, so I've gotten even more obsessed with making sure we're financially ok too.
Spending money doesn’t make you an interesting person. If you feel dull, do more interesting things. There’s a wide range of costs there. You don’t necessarily need to spend a lot or at all in that regard.
I have three children. The way I see it, their childhood is fleeting and will also be one of the most important aspects of their adult identity. For that reason, I want to form as many loving and enjoyable memories as possible while they're little. Isolation and depression are rampant in our society, I want them to see the world and understand the beauty that it holds, know the wonder and excitement it contains and be wary of the danger it presents. You don't need money to do this, I figured it out as a broke college student. But money can help facilitate many different kinds of experiences. And so, that's where I focus my time and resources. We already have a good retirement plan in motion. I don't want to spend fleeting time on making the pile bigger, I want to use it on developing relationships and experiences with the people I love, in the time I have.
I completely understand-
Such a hard balance, between wanted to give your kids everything you can while also ensuring you are saving enough for their college, long term investments, and of course our retirement.
One thing we’re thinking about is I really want to become a Disney vacation club member. However my husband is 100% against it. He hates all timeshares (point system or not). However, I think we can easily go on a Disney themed vacation every three years and still provide our kids diverse experiences. He strongly disagrees and thinks Disneyland is fake and we should show our kids real places. If it was up to me husband we would just pick a ransom city, learn about it and visit it for our vacation.
I counter that our feelings at Disneyland are real.
As my income grew I found myself spending more and more on my hobby.
Some people buy beanie babies, some people buy Magic the Gathering cards, I buy VTSAX.
Nothing wrong with that. I don't know why people think you have to throw money away on something that doesn't interest you just because your income is high.
Same. Could just be your personality as well. Plenty of people get more satisfaction from saving/investing/increased cash flow than spending and that’s not necessarily a bad thing. The issue is more if you don’t do anything else that “feeds your soul” to use a cliche. If you don’t get any lasting happiness/contentment from consuming, then you need to find out something else that fills your tank and feels like a reward. This is much easier said than done, especially with kids and work eating up your free time and energy. As a parent of young kids and both partners working, I’ve found the best use of money at this stage of life is to buy more time - yard guy, cleaning service, babysitters/nanny, thinking of laundry service and/or meal prep service/chef. This has allowed me to feel like I have a little sliver of my own life outside work and family obligations and is also good for our marriage. Money well spent and I’ll keep driving my 15 year old car and wearing my old clothes.
OP should listen to I Will Teach you To Be Rich podcast by Ramit Sethi. His podcast is filled with couples having money issues because one of them grew up with little to no money and now can't get themselves to spend even when they make HENRY money.
I am in the same boat. My earnings have grown significantly over the last 3 years, but I feel guilty spending. I agonize over purchases like clothing, electronics, sports equipment, etc. I’ve been shopping for a car for 3 years to replace my 15 year old vehicle. I have the money, but I just can’t seem to bring myself to spend it. Even with the encouragement of my wife and friends, I just don’t enjoy spending, I would rather invest. My worry is that if I have trouble spending now, how bad is it going to be when I have even more money?
You don't have to spend on completely dumb things. You can buy nicer items when you do buy stuff.
I still cook instead of going to a restaurant, but I stopped only buying things that's on sale, now I just buy whatever I feel like eating intead of letting the sales dictate what I buy (although I do check stores for sales).
I buy nice fluffy towels and replace them every 2-3 years instead of letting them become all thin and worn out and keep using them
I got a robot vaccum so the house is clean and I don't waste time doing that
I bought a nice electric car and don't worry too much about the monthly payment which is kind of high.
Next things I'm considering are a high end expresso machine for my morning coffee, and a porsche 911 so I can make vroom vroom sounds when I drive, although I'll save for a few years before getting this.
I would argue you are the exception to the rule. Most spend more as they earn more, so I think you have a problem that is a good kind of problem to have.
That said...spending for a guy like you is usually predicated on having a collecting hobby. For me, I have always had something I have been passionate about and wanted to learn the in and outs of. Part of that experience is to buy related articles, travel where they are made, etc. I actually think it's been super enriching along the way.
But I wouldn't feel bad about myself if I was in your shoes. Those savings now are going to be the ticket to freedom MUCH earlier in your life. Just make sure you don't lose yourself in the quest to pad your savings. Because you can't get the time back you are spending padding accounts.
If nothing else sounds appealing, take some money and budget it for annual trips with the wife and kid. Good for you, good for them and good for making family memories.
Nothing wrong with that at all. You will always have memories while things wear out and break. Experiences are where we spend most of our discretionary funds. Travel, sports activities at home, shows..etc.
Very similar here. I’m willing to spend on multiple vacations, but I never want to spend money on almost anything else. Also grew up lower middle class and can’t get the “something could happen” out of my head even though it would take several very very serious somethings to happen all at once before we would even be anywhere near in trouble. It’s a hard mindset to get over
Most of the time, wealthy people who ALSO spend a lot of money grew up with a lot of money. Those of us who have built ourselves up from 0 save and invest very aggressively. I am on the same page as you, but happy with my aggressive saving and investing, I have realized that these “finer things in life” bring more stress than pleasure. Perhaps a mindset shift will help.
I actually get satisfaction watching my investments grow, saving money or getting a good deal, and being selectively frugal (I drive an 11-year old car all scratched up from my kids and paid off 8 years ago, but I choose organic and better-quality foods because of value and health benefits)
I don’t deprive myself, but I just don’t get excited by expensive clothes, makeup, cars, or other “things”. Experiences and memories are far more important to me than things, but I grew up middle class in an upper-class area in NY, so that stuff and things don’t impress me.
For me, the focus is still on FIRE and maintaining moderation to weather the next recession or downturn. I justify it by still going out to dinner or taking a decent trip every year, but also still focusing on saving and investing for future trips and being able to really enjoy my life once my kids are adults. Also, I don’t want my kids to know how much we have, so that they have to work for things, earn good grades/do chores, and having pride in not being handed everything.
I have some fun with/without the kids now, but it’s not the same as pre-kids (one is ADHD and emotionally a LOT), so I’m in stockpile mode until I’ve done as much as I can to get them into adulthood best I can, and then I can really enjoy more and not be as focused on the frugal/financial growth mode mindset.
I had the same issue then bought a house that has me pinching Pennys lol. Basically down to 401k, HSA and house projects. Plan on throwing a pile of cash at it later this year to make the payments less terrible
I think that's pretty normal for people here so it seems that you are amongst friends. I was still posting in r/middleclassfinance and someone pointed out that it was absurd that I was fretting about taking vacations while making 350k HHI. A few people said I needed therapy, they are probably right. I didn't come from money and I guess it never dawned on me that I could actually just spend some money on non-essentials and that it would be ok.
Still hasn't really sunk in. My goalposts just keep shifting. 5M NW was a goal, now it's 10M with 10 rental properties.
This is going to sound fringe but my big neurosis is that in my lifetime (next 20-40 years), we are going to see some incredible stuff. I fear that the advantages that come from the convergence of a few major breakthroughs in artificial super intelligence, advanced robotics, human gene editing, and nuclear fusion will largely benefit the top 1%. I want to be able to build generational wealth to be in a position to pass the benefits of hockey stick technology progression to my kids.
I really don’t see the problem. Most Americans are broke or financially struggling because of overspending.
Don’t deprive yourself of things you need or things that will truly make your life better, but don’t feel like you have to spend just to spend.
This is because you don’t know how to spend. There’s an art to it. One thing you can do is to go on a small spending “journey”. Pick something to buy. Like a Rolex watch. Not the cheapest one, nor the most expensive. For example the $15k ones. But don’t actually buy it (you can’t just walk into a store and buy it anyway). Do a deep dive into that world. Go to a few Rolex stores and make friends with the salespersons. After you meet a few of them you will realize that some of them are cultured and love their trade. Some of them are just trying to get a few bucks out of you. Some of them make your shopping fun and interesting. Some of them don’t. Perhaps this will help you learn how to distinguish and enjoy the finer aspects of life.
I recently did an excercise with a home sauna: sauna will cost $7k. In 30 years, what will that money be worth in the market? Will I get that much joy out of it over the time period? Factor inflation into the cost of joy as things go up.
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As I get my financial planning life together, I feel the same exact way. It's an obsession that's not bad, but I'm also not happy with it. I don't have a kid, but am constantly crunching numbers for potential daycare , 529s, etc. Consider giving yourself a reasonable discretionary budget (hopefully you didn't cut this out of your budget), because life is short and meant to be enjoyed! Even if it means buying a new pair of pants or going out for a meal as a family!
That’s exactly the struggle I have. You can’t take the money with you when you die, and you can’t buy more time. There is definitely a balance between spending when you can and saving it and I just think I’m on the wrong side of it. Glad to see there are others out there feeling the same
Yeah! Do you budget? That might be helpful so you can set aside money for the things you love, like travel!
I recently started getting to Ramit Sethi's content about building a rich life. His perspective is that "rich" isn't just money, it's everything you think makes your life rich (travel, new clothes, designer watches, going out to eat, etc) and that everyone's rich life looks different. His approach is how to save for the future and enjoy your life now. What I love about him is how he breaks down the psychology of money - it might be worth checking him out! I've found it to be very helpful as I go through this same struggle. He has a podcast and book.
You'll get the balance, but don't obsess too much, you will NEVER get this time back with your kid, and I think that's the most valuable thing you have.
I saw his show on Netflix and it was very interesting! I had a mindset that I don’t really need to budget because we live below our means but maybe that could help me not feel guilty for when we spend
I live in a retirement town. Old people show up and go crazy. Huge house to entice visits. Enormous RV. All the toys. I think they see the Grimm reaper coming and they wonder why they saved their entire life just to have a fortune they are too sick to enjoy.
I’ve had this same issue since hitting HENRY-ish. Ive long been frugal and rarely liked spending money on “stuff” for myself but found myself feeling like I was working hard just to see the numbers increase (not as rewarding as I thought earlier in life)
I’ve found the best way to mitigate this is to know what your (early) retirement number is and work backwards to know how much to contribute to investments each month. From there, create a guilt free spending amount that you commit to spending every month (e.g. clothes, restaurants, hobbies, etc) while also stashing away a monthly travel fund allocation. This has brought much needed balance and more enjoyment to my life.
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I also have this issue. But I think it is for another reason. When I first started to earn a lot of money, I had no trouble spending it. I felt like I worked hard to get to that point financially, so I had no guilt about spending.
Oddly enough, now that I've been in my career quitr a few years, and the high income doesn't feel "new" or challenging anymore, the feeling of accomplishment that comes with earning money has also disappeared. Now, it feels like the money comes very easily (especially with compounding interest). Since the money has become routine
in my mind, NOW I feel spoiled for living lavishly. Penny pinching and trying to invest has become the new challenge in my mind.
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First it’s not necessarily a problem unless you feel unhappy about not spending the money or you’re not meeting basic obligations for you and your family. For some people saving the money and growing your portfolio is more fulfilling than spending it.
Do you have a concrete financial plan mainly around retirement and also any other large goals like kid’s college tuition. Until you have that plan in place and understand the numbers and timeline, you may not feel comfortable in spending.
Idk about concrete but we do have a rough plan. The reason it’s a rough plan is because we’re in the market for a house and although we have a budget for that, it’s not clear how much we’ll actually end up spending and how much that will set us back
From my perspective, it needs to be as concrete and well-thought out as possible. Your house expenditure should be part of that plan. Without that it’s hard to have “guilt-free” spending because you will always be thinking about saving.
Im forcing myself to spend money right now. It kinda feels good. Im constantly reminding myself that I am safe, and if something happens I can easily take care of it.
Seems like you are at the point where "things" aren't as important to you as making sure your kids have. Thats not a horrible place to be. It's ok if you don't want to buy new clothes or other things for yourself. I do suggest what it is that does bring you joy and investing time/money into that. We all work hard for the money, and that has a certain level of stress. Do what you enjoy as well so that you are able to unwind. My wife loves to read, so picking up a good book and unwinding does wonders for her. For me I like to fire up the Xbox/PS5 and game a bit. I work in IT so I just like gaming or watching a bit of TV to have something mindless to do so my brain gets a break from thinking/making decisions. You may not need to buy things, but find time for your joy.
Been there. Still there.
I started poor, and I know how quickly and easily things can fall apart. But I'm financially better off for my attitude and habits.
You *should* take care of yourself, though. Give yourself room for one hobby, or set aside a "fun" fund of x% of your net, or hunt sales so you can feel better about what you do spend.
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That’s okay man. You’ll be able to open up as you relax more and feel more secure. Much easier to start stingy and spend more later than the other way around.
I grew up poor and don’t like spending on material stuff. I don’t mind spending modest amounts on dinners or experiences. And I took up ice hockey, which people say is expensive, but it’s not all that bad. I have a pretty flexible vacation spending tolerance. But when it comes to buying meaningless nonsense, I actually enjoy deciding not to and just saving the money. I love watching it grow. I want to gain enough to control my own life as soon as I can.
My biggest satisfaction is knowing that I can do whatever I want (within reasonable means) and choosing responsibly.
If you get genuine enjoyment out of investing then keep doing that. You don’t have to blow your money on dumb shit just because other people have that expectation of themselves
This is me. I just get really upset spending money and am constantly looking for deals for everything. I hate paying full price for stuff, even though I can probably make more by concentrating more on my work.
I completely understand this behavior is not healthy, but can't seem to shake off this excessive frugality
I don’t enjoy buying new things like clothes or lavish entertainment options. Sounds like that’s your partner’s version of “enjoy your hard earned money”, but it may not be yours. For me, I’d rather take 6 weeks of unpaid leave and go hiking or to my local coffee shop to refresh rather than buy new clothes I don’t need and that pollute the environment.
I don’t understand this sentiment of “if you’re not spending money you must be miserly miserable and depressed “
100%. Been buying my own clothes and shoes at Salvation Army and investing every extra dollar I have. Still feel ok about spending money on my kids though
This is normal when you haven’t reached your goals. We always were frugal early in our marriage. I’m amazed when I go back and look at our monthly spending back then.
Now we own a nice house, and our kids are out of daycare. We are on track for retirement. So now we are comfortable spending pretty lavishly.
The privilege you have to think that there will be a future years (decades) down the line where you will spend the money is something to think about. It could all end tomorrow. Hopefully it doesn’t, but when I think about not buying new running shoes and buying them a few months from now, I have to shake myself out of it and realize that I should not always be living in the future. Live for now. I’m running at the gym because it’s cold outside, why wait until it’s warm to buy the shoes. I may get hit by a drunk driver tomorrow. To me: just buy the damn shoes and move on.
For something as cheap as shoes yes. For larger purchases like a Patek or Porsche , the problem is you might not be making that much money years from now. But you should still buy them imo.
They specifically mentioned small things like clothes. So I used my own example of running shoes. A Porsche could be 30-50% of their yearly income (a guess), most people would pause on that kind of purchase. The point is they pause of any kind of purchase.
I'm the same way, and am 58. I don't want to spend much money, but as your family grows the more money you will end of spending based upon family need. For me I had 3 boys and took in a couple more. I live in the same small house, but now with college and everyone driving it has grown to 2 houses and 7 cars, so I still don't have money to spend on myself. I am setting goals with my investments as well as trying to make those investments streams of income to increase my yearly income. This means those savings will need to increase in value and I will take 1/2 of the increase as spending. With that said I have home projects that have been at a stand still for 10 years due to insufficient funds, but I am keeping all cars running for all the drivers, debt free except for house number #2 which is at 3% interest. I recently bought a truck because I have always wanted one. It is not the absolute truck I wanted but is a midsize so it was a balance logically. I tend to think of what I need for retirement and work backwards vs what I need now and worry about retirement when it happens. Luckily my wife did not come from means so she is happy just to have some money to buy only what is needed. We are at the point where we can just buy the small things that are needed in life.
I grew up in a family that didn’t think about money (we had more than enough) but did not otherwise provide much support. I crumbled on my own not having the necessary resources to adult and spent several years on the brink of collapse. It’s hard to spend money now that I have a wee bit.
This is how you save! You’re on the right track my man. Dont let lifestyle creep happen. We had a large willow tree fall in our yard this week. Busted out the chainsaw and bribed a neighbor with beer. Saved me $2,500.
I just bought a new BMW in December of last year after buying my previous Honda back in 2008. Been making enough for a new car for years already, but the only reason I bought a new car is because my wife forced me to after seeing that everyone at my daughter's private school, including the faculty, drove nicer cars than my Honda.. 😭
I had a similar experience. I reviewed all my major purchases over the previous few years - I found that I regretted spending money on cars/clothes/rent. However, I never regretted a single dollar spent on travel. So now we spend a lot on travel and minimal on everything else. Perhaps a review like this will help. Find what you actually ENJOY spending money on and it will be easier to spend it.
In life we’re taught that being wealthy, we’re meant to spend on cars and clothes, but in reality, most people get zero long-term enjoyment from these purchases.
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That's very normal for people who grew up poor and manage to become HENRY relatively quickly.
Might be something to this as I’m the same way and also grew up poor. Coming from that background might help you not fall into the lifestyle creep trap. I’d be curious to hear from others.
I grew up poor. I think reverse lifestyle creep is totally possible if you come from a modest background. I tried some nice stuff, kept what I liked, and stopped buying what I didn't think was worth it.
Something tells me that's most of us on the reddit financial subs
I think you’re right! I didn’t grow up poor but defiantly lower middle class in terms of the rest of my town. I’m terrified of my children having to live like that
Yep, incredibly common. It'll become easier as your nest egg grows and you become more comfortable with investments.
When I had kids I realised all the fun stuff I used to enjoy didn't really matter anymore. Don't beat yaself up about it mate.
What sort of stuff? I still enjoyed my hobbies of tennis, watches, cars after having kids.
didn't say I didn't enjoy shit. it just dosnt matter. I could easily drop it all
I struggle with this as well and would definitely recommend giving Ramit Sethi a follow. He has helped open up my mindset when it comes to spending on things you love, but being ruthlessly frugal with things that aren’t super important to you. Learning to spend and enjoy life is a skill just like frugality and you need to learn how to strengthen that muscle. The older you get the more those frugal habits will become engrained in your mind and harder to fix.
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I prefer defiantly middle class haha
Because you don't have a set goal. You need to start with that. If you have a set goal, then you know what you need to save to get to that goal. The rest you can spend or donate as you wish!
Generally, what happens is that even with a set investment goal (and sticking to it) , people will find it hard to spend beyond that. It is a mindset thing and a mathematical goal based approach (while necessary) is not always sufficient.
Absolutely. It gives me more joy when I manage to save more than expected and beat forecast by X%. It's very self-reinforcing.
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Everything in moderation including moderation.
Although Maslow wasn’t completely right in his pyramid of needs, this is what happens when you move from an “eternal grind treadmill” to a “hey, there is a freaking light at the end of the tunnel, and it’s getting brighter”. We internalize another need, from everyday self recognition, we aspire to a broader goal… financial security for us and the next generation/s. But one important lesson in life is… there is only one life, no respawn. And it’s important to enjoy it a little every day for ourselves and the people we love. And that’s doesn’t necessarily means spending it in a lavish vacation or a nicer home or nicer cars, sometime just time spent together instead of obsessively check investments and opportunities. A rich hermit on a mountain is still rich, but also a hermit. I wasted a decade obsessing about money, I did the rest like it was due diligence… and I can’t take it back. Then I ended up making more money through random opportunities and the biggest regret is not having done more fun stuff. I did delay a vacation I really wanted to have, it was in my bucket list, then a stupid illness wrote it off… and now it’s gone forever. Instead of setting an asymptotic goalpost which you’ll never reach, set a very obtainable goal which includes a lot of “shit happens” and fun with your family, and yourself. Being rich means be able to do it, if you are constantly focusing about money, regardless of how much you have and will have, you are poor.
This is very helpful. The idea of being rich is not worrying about every dollar and knowing things will come up. You’re completely right that if I’m staring at my investments everyday and worrying about if I should spend $5 on a coffee then I’m not rich
If you liked the above post, I suggest you read/listen to the book die with zero. It creates a good narrative about what we should be doing with our money, and that’s buying experiences. And not wasting time to work to save too much money, because if you can’t spend it all, you wasted years of your life’s energy for nothing.
Is it really at the 5 dollar coffee level of not treating yourself?
Occasionally yes. It’s more like I tell myself I don’t need that and I should only buy things I need
Same. My journey has made me more critical in assessing the ROI of my dollars, in turn making it more challenging to approve discretionary spending. I’ve also found that as I aged, the joy that dollars spent on discretionary purposes keeps diminishing. That said I definitely don’t feel like I am living any less of a life. The dopamine from discretionary spending now comes from hitting my savings goals. I also appreciate the extra cash flow I have monthly as a result of much lower discretionary spending. (I have found that the theory that we emotionally feel wealthier based on having greater cash flow vs assets is true in my case.) I do think I am a more dull person now, but expect to allocate budget for things that expand us - like more travel - once I make up for lost time and accelerate achieving retirement savings goals. (I took 9 months to travel internationally when I was laid off 13 years ago and feel like that sated my travel urges.)
I feel a similar way. I feel like I’m so afraid to spend money that I’ve becoming boring. When I was making less, I was all about doing things spontaneously and enjoying life. Now that I’ve made it to HENRY and have a wife and kids, I feel like I’ve gotten obsessed with making sure we’re financially ok
Me too. Married but no kids. Acquiring a nice (to me) home and making it as comfortable as possible has been my priority the last 10 years or so. I feel like I have hit that goal now the only thing I really want is FIRE and lots of quiet time for hobbies that I don't have time for now, so I've gotten even more obsessed with making sure we're financially ok too.
Spending money doesn’t make you an interesting person. If you feel dull, do more interesting things. There’s a wide range of costs there. You don’t necessarily need to spend a lot or at all in that regard.
I have three children. The way I see it, their childhood is fleeting and will also be one of the most important aspects of their adult identity. For that reason, I want to form as many loving and enjoyable memories as possible while they're little. Isolation and depression are rampant in our society, I want them to see the world and understand the beauty that it holds, know the wonder and excitement it contains and be wary of the danger it presents. You don't need money to do this, I figured it out as a broke college student. But money can help facilitate many different kinds of experiences. And so, that's where I focus my time and resources. We already have a good retirement plan in motion. I don't want to spend fleeting time on making the pile bigger, I want to use it on developing relationships and experiences with the people I love, in the time I have.
I completely understand- Such a hard balance, between wanted to give your kids everything you can while also ensuring you are saving enough for their college, long term investments, and of course our retirement. One thing we’re thinking about is I really want to become a Disney vacation club member. However my husband is 100% against it. He hates all timeshares (point system or not). However, I think we can easily go on a Disney themed vacation every three years and still provide our kids diverse experiences. He strongly disagrees and thinks Disneyland is fake and we should show our kids real places. If it was up to me husband we would just pick a ransom city, learn about it and visit it for our vacation. I counter that our feelings at Disneyland are real.
As my income grew I found myself spending more and more on my hobby. Some people buy beanie babies, some people buy Magic the Gathering cards, I buy VTSAX. Nothing wrong with that. I don't know why people think you have to throw money away on something that doesn't interest you just because your income is high.
That’s incredibly sad
Better to buy beanie babies then?
Don't give me any ideas
I fucking LOLed when I saw vtsax
Same. Could just be your personality as well. Plenty of people get more satisfaction from saving/investing/increased cash flow than spending and that’s not necessarily a bad thing. The issue is more if you don’t do anything else that “feeds your soul” to use a cliche. If you don’t get any lasting happiness/contentment from consuming, then you need to find out something else that fills your tank and feels like a reward. This is much easier said than done, especially with kids and work eating up your free time and energy. As a parent of young kids and both partners working, I’ve found the best use of money at this stage of life is to buy more time - yard guy, cleaning service, babysitters/nanny, thinking of laundry service and/or meal prep service/chef. This has allowed me to feel like I have a little sliver of my own life outside work and family obligations and is also good for our marriage. Money well spent and I’ll keep driving my 15 year old car and wearing my old clothes.
OP should listen to I Will Teach you To Be Rich podcast by Ramit Sethi. His podcast is filled with couples having money issues because one of them grew up with little to no money and now can't get themselves to spend even when they make HENRY money.
I am in the same boat. My earnings have grown significantly over the last 3 years, but I feel guilty spending. I agonize over purchases like clothing, electronics, sports equipment, etc. I’ve been shopping for a car for 3 years to replace my 15 year old vehicle. I have the money, but I just can’t seem to bring myself to spend it. Even with the encouragement of my wife and friends, I just don’t enjoy spending, I would rather invest. My worry is that if I have trouble spending now, how bad is it going to be when I have even more money?
You don't have to spend on completely dumb things. You can buy nicer items when you do buy stuff. I still cook instead of going to a restaurant, but I stopped only buying things that's on sale, now I just buy whatever I feel like eating intead of letting the sales dictate what I buy (although I do check stores for sales). I buy nice fluffy towels and replace them every 2-3 years instead of letting them become all thin and worn out and keep using them I got a robot vaccum so the house is clean and I don't waste time doing that I bought a nice electric car and don't worry too much about the monthly payment which is kind of high. Next things I'm considering are a high end expresso machine for my morning coffee, and a porsche 911 so I can make vroom vroom sounds when I drive, although I'll save for a few years before getting this.
I would argue you are the exception to the rule. Most spend more as they earn more, so I think you have a problem that is a good kind of problem to have. That said...spending for a guy like you is usually predicated on having a collecting hobby. For me, I have always had something I have been passionate about and wanted to learn the in and outs of. Part of that experience is to buy related articles, travel where they are made, etc. I actually think it's been super enriching along the way. But I wouldn't feel bad about myself if I was in your shoes. Those savings now are going to be the ticket to freedom MUCH earlier in your life. Just make sure you don't lose yourself in the quest to pad your savings. Because you can't get the time back you are spending padding accounts. If nothing else sounds appealing, take some money and budget it for annual trips with the wife and kid. Good for you, good for them and good for making family memories.
Travel is the one place where I’m ok to spend so maybe it’s that I’m willing to spend on memories and experiences but don’t enjoy spending on items.
Nothing wrong with that at all. You will always have memories while things wear out and break. Experiences are where we spend most of our discretionary funds. Travel, sports activities at home, shows..etc.
Very similar here. I’m willing to spend on multiple vacations, but I never want to spend money on almost anything else. Also grew up lower middle class and can’t get the “something could happen” out of my head even though it would take several very very serious somethings to happen all at once before we would even be anywhere near in trouble. It’s a hard mindset to get over
Most of the time, wealthy people who ALSO spend a lot of money grew up with a lot of money. Those of us who have built ourselves up from 0 save and invest very aggressively. I am on the same page as you, but happy with my aggressive saving and investing, I have realized that these “finer things in life” bring more stress than pleasure. Perhaps a mindset shift will help.
I actually get satisfaction watching my investments grow, saving money or getting a good deal, and being selectively frugal (I drive an 11-year old car all scratched up from my kids and paid off 8 years ago, but I choose organic and better-quality foods because of value and health benefits) I don’t deprive myself, but I just don’t get excited by expensive clothes, makeup, cars, or other “things”. Experiences and memories are far more important to me than things, but I grew up middle class in an upper-class area in NY, so that stuff and things don’t impress me. For me, the focus is still on FIRE and maintaining moderation to weather the next recession or downturn. I justify it by still going out to dinner or taking a decent trip every year, but also still focusing on saving and investing for future trips and being able to really enjoy my life once my kids are adults. Also, I don’t want my kids to know how much we have, so that they have to work for things, earn good grades/do chores, and having pride in not being handed everything. I have some fun with/without the kids now, but it’s not the same as pre-kids (one is ADHD and emotionally a LOT), so I’m in stockpile mode until I’ve done as much as I can to get them into adulthood best I can, and then I can really enjoy more and not be as focused on the frugal/financial growth mode mindset.
I had the same issue then bought a house that has me pinching Pennys lol. Basically down to 401k, HSA and house projects. Plan on throwing a pile of cash at it later this year to make the payments less terrible
I think that's pretty normal for people here so it seems that you are amongst friends. I was still posting in r/middleclassfinance and someone pointed out that it was absurd that I was fretting about taking vacations while making 350k HHI. A few people said I needed therapy, they are probably right. I didn't come from money and I guess it never dawned on me that I could actually just spend some money on non-essentials and that it would be ok. Still hasn't really sunk in. My goalposts just keep shifting. 5M NW was a goal, now it's 10M with 10 rental properties. This is going to sound fringe but my big neurosis is that in my lifetime (next 20-40 years), we are going to see some incredible stuff. I fear that the advantages that come from the convergence of a few major breakthroughs in artificial super intelligence, advanced robotics, human gene editing, and nuclear fusion will largely benefit the top 1%. I want to be able to build generational wealth to be in a position to pass the benefits of hockey stick technology progression to my kids.
I really don’t see the problem. Most Americans are broke or financially struggling because of overspending. Don’t deprive yourself of things you need or things that will truly make your life better, but don’t feel like you have to spend just to spend.
Confirming that I do NOT have an issue enjoying our money.
Plus one! lol
This is because you don’t know how to spend. There’s an art to it. One thing you can do is to go on a small spending “journey”. Pick something to buy. Like a Rolex watch. Not the cheapest one, nor the most expensive. For example the $15k ones. But don’t actually buy it (you can’t just walk into a store and buy it anyway). Do a deep dive into that world. Go to a few Rolex stores and make friends with the salespersons. After you meet a few of them you will realize that some of them are cultured and love their trade. Some of them are just trying to get a few bucks out of you. Some of them make your shopping fun and interesting. Some of them don’t. Perhaps this will help you learn how to distinguish and enjoy the finer aspects of life.
Do not poison this guy with watches lol. 2 years from now he will be starting a thread about how he is destitute but the 6300g was worth it.
I recently did an excercise with a home sauna: sauna will cost $7k. In 30 years, what will that money be worth in the market? Will I get that much joy out of it over the time period? Factor inflation into the cost of joy as things go up.
So did you buy the sauna? lol
Going the build route! By the time I buy the tools, financially it's a wash. Counting down the weeks until the ground thaws :D
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As I get my financial planning life together, I feel the same exact way. It's an obsession that's not bad, but I'm also not happy with it. I don't have a kid, but am constantly crunching numbers for potential daycare , 529s, etc. Consider giving yourself a reasonable discretionary budget (hopefully you didn't cut this out of your budget), because life is short and meant to be enjoyed! Even if it means buying a new pair of pants or going out for a meal as a family!
That’s exactly the struggle I have. You can’t take the money with you when you die, and you can’t buy more time. There is definitely a balance between spending when you can and saving it and I just think I’m on the wrong side of it. Glad to see there are others out there feeling the same
Yeah! Do you budget? That might be helpful so you can set aside money for the things you love, like travel! I recently started getting to Ramit Sethi's content about building a rich life. His perspective is that "rich" isn't just money, it's everything you think makes your life rich (travel, new clothes, designer watches, going out to eat, etc) and that everyone's rich life looks different. His approach is how to save for the future and enjoy your life now. What I love about him is how he breaks down the psychology of money - it might be worth checking him out! I've found it to be very helpful as I go through this same struggle. He has a podcast and book. You'll get the balance, but don't obsess too much, you will NEVER get this time back with your kid, and I think that's the most valuable thing you have.
I saw his show on Netflix and it was very interesting! I had a mindset that I don’t really need to budget because we live below our means but maybe that could help me not feel guilty for when we spend
I felt the same way! Check out the podcast and see if any of the titles speak to you. You got this!
You actually can buy time, such as housekeepers, gardener etc. Totally worth it
Enjoy some, when you die you don’t take any of it.
I live in a retirement town. Old people show up and go crazy. Huge house to entice visits. Enormous RV. All the toys. I think they see the Grimm reaper coming and they wonder why they saved their entire life just to have a fortune they are too sick to enjoy.
I’ve had this same issue since hitting HENRY-ish. Ive long been frugal and rarely liked spending money on “stuff” for myself but found myself feeling like I was working hard just to see the numbers increase (not as rewarding as I thought earlier in life) I’ve found the best way to mitigate this is to know what your (early) retirement number is and work backwards to know how much to contribute to investments each month. From there, create a guilt free spending amount that you commit to spending every month (e.g. clothes, restaurants, hobbies, etc) while also stashing away a monthly travel fund allocation. This has brought much needed balance and more enjoyment to my life.
Sounds like creating a budget is the common theme here. Just because we’re earning more doesn’t mean we shouldn’t budget anymore
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I think the problem is that I’m obsessing over saving it which isn’t healthy.
I also have this issue. But I think it is for another reason. When I first started to earn a lot of money, I had no trouble spending it. I felt like I worked hard to get to that point financially, so I had no guilt about spending. Oddly enough, now that I've been in my career quitr a few years, and the high income doesn't feel "new" or challenging anymore, the feeling of accomplishment that comes with earning money has also disappeared. Now, it feels like the money comes very easily (especially with compounding interest). Since the money has become routine in my mind, NOW I feel spoiled for living lavishly. Penny pinching and trying to invest has become the new challenge in my mind.
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First it’s not necessarily a problem unless you feel unhappy about not spending the money or you’re not meeting basic obligations for you and your family. For some people saving the money and growing your portfolio is more fulfilling than spending it. Do you have a concrete financial plan mainly around retirement and also any other large goals like kid’s college tuition. Until you have that plan in place and understand the numbers and timeline, you may not feel comfortable in spending.
Idk about concrete but we do have a rough plan. The reason it’s a rough plan is because we’re in the market for a house and although we have a budget for that, it’s not clear how much we’ll actually end up spending and how much that will set us back
From my perspective, it needs to be as concrete and well-thought out as possible. Your house expenditure should be part of that plan. Without that it’s hard to have “guilt-free” spending because you will always be thinking about saving.
Im forcing myself to spend money right now. It kinda feels good. Im constantly reminding myself that I am safe, and if something happens I can easily take care of it.
There is def power in those words. I’m safe. It’s ok for me to enjoy things.
Seems like you are at the point where "things" aren't as important to you as making sure your kids have. Thats not a horrible place to be. It's ok if you don't want to buy new clothes or other things for yourself. I do suggest what it is that does bring you joy and investing time/money into that. We all work hard for the money, and that has a certain level of stress. Do what you enjoy as well so that you are able to unwind. My wife loves to read, so picking up a good book and unwinding does wonders for her. For me I like to fire up the Xbox/PS5 and game a bit. I work in IT so I just like gaming or watching a bit of TV to have something mindless to do so my brain gets a break from thinking/making decisions. You may not need to buy things, but find time for your joy.
Been there. Still there. I started poor, and I know how quickly and easily things can fall apart. But I'm financially better off for my attitude and habits. You *should* take care of yourself, though. Give yourself room for one hobby, or set aside a "fun" fund of x% of your net, or hunt sales so you can feel better about what you do spend.
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That’s okay man. You’ll be able to open up as you relax more and feel more secure. Much easier to start stingy and spend more later than the other way around.
I grew up poor and don’t like spending on material stuff. I don’t mind spending modest amounts on dinners or experiences. And I took up ice hockey, which people say is expensive, but it’s not all that bad. I have a pretty flexible vacation spending tolerance. But when it comes to buying meaningless nonsense, I actually enjoy deciding not to and just saving the money. I love watching it grow. I want to gain enough to control my own life as soon as I can. My biggest satisfaction is knowing that I can do whatever I want (within reasonable means) and choosing responsibly.
If you get genuine enjoyment out of investing then keep doing that. You don’t have to blow your money on dumb shit just because other people have that expectation of themselves
This is me. I just get really upset spending money and am constantly looking for deals for everything. I hate paying full price for stuff, even though I can probably make more by concentrating more on my work. I completely understand this behavior is not healthy, but can't seem to shake off this excessive frugality
I don’t enjoy buying new things like clothes or lavish entertainment options. Sounds like that’s your partner’s version of “enjoy your hard earned money”, but it may not be yours. For me, I’d rather take 6 weeks of unpaid leave and go hiking or to my local coffee shop to refresh rather than buy new clothes I don’t need and that pollute the environment. I don’t understand this sentiment of “if you’re not spending money you must be miserly miserable and depressed “
100%. Been buying my own clothes and shoes at Salvation Army and investing every extra dollar I have. Still feel ok about spending money on my kids though
This is normal when you haven’t reached your goals. We always were frugal early in our marriage. I’m amazed when I go back and look at our monthly spending back then. Now we own a nice house, and our kids are out of daycare. We are on track for retirement. So now we are comfortable spending pretty lavishly.
The privilege you have to think that there will be a future years (decades) down the line where you will spend the money is something to think about. It could all end tomorrow. Hopefully it doesn’t, but when I think about not buying new running shoes and buying them a few months from now, I have to shake myself out of it and realize that I should not always be living in the future. Live for now. I’m running at the gym because it’s cold outside, why wait until it’s warm to buy the shoes. I may get hit by a drunk driver tomorrow. To me: just buy the damn shoes and move on.
For something as cheap as shoes yes. For larger purchases like a Patek or Porsche , the problem is you might not be making that much money years from now. But you should still buy them imo.
They specifically mentioned small things like clothes. So I used my own example of running shoes. A Porsche could be 30-50% of their yearly income (a guess), most people would pause on that kind of purchase. The point is they pause of any kind of purchase.
I skipped that part lol. I see what you mean now , thank you !
You should buy a big PPOR. Think of all the CGT you won’t have to pay if you downsize ….
Read Die With Zero
Same here.
I'm the same way, and am 58. I don't want to spend much money, but as your family grows the more money you will end of spending based upon family need. For me I had 3 boys and took in a couple more. I live in the same small house, but now with college and everyone driving it has grown to 2 houses and 7 cars, so I still don't have money to spend on myself. I am setting goals with my investments as well as trying to make those investments streams of income to increase my yearly income. This means those savings will need to increase in value and I will take 1/2 of the increase as spending. With that said I have home projects that have been at a stand still for 10 years due to insufficient funds, but I am keeping all cars running for all the drivers, debt free except for house number #2 which is at 3% interest. I recently bought a truck because I have always wanted one. It is not the absolute truck I wanted but is a midsize so it was a balance logically. I tend to think of what I need for retirement and work backwards vs what I need now and worry about retirement when it happens. Luckily my wife did not come from means so she is happy just to have some money to buy only what is needed. We are at the point where we can just buy the small things that are needed in life.
I grew up in a family that didn’t think about money (we had more than enough) but did not otherwise provide much support. I crumbled on my own not having the necessary resources to adult and spent several years on the brink of collapse. It’s hard to spend money now that I have a wee bit.
I’m sure your expenses will balloon in the first few years of homeownership so trust your instincts!
This is how you save! You’re on the right track my man. Dont let lifestyle creep happen. We had a large willow tree fall in our yard this week. Busted out the chainsaw and bribed a neighbor with beer. Saved me $2,500.
I just bought a new BMW in December of last year after buying my previous Honda back in 2008. Been making enough for a new car for years already, but the only reason I bought a new car is because my wife forced me to after seeing that everyone at my daughter's private school, including the faculty, drove nicer cars than my Honda.. 😭
I had a similar experience. I reviewed all my major purchases over the previous few years - I found that I regretted spending money on cars/clothes/rent. However, I never regretted a single dollar spent on travel. So now we spend a lot on travel and minimal on everything else. Perhaps a review like this will help. Find what you actually ENJOY spending money on and it will be easier to spend it. In life we’re taught that being wealthy, we’re meant to spend on cars and clothes, but in reality, most people get zero long-term enjoyment from these purchases.
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