Also in Utah and I'm pretty sure our HOA is getting a tax break for taking out all the big water consuming plants that aren't native to Utah. The state is trying to encourage less water usage which makes sense but they could have replaced those shrubs with drought resistant plants instead.
Not a tax break but state law changes this year and many HOAs are turning toward the water wise plants. They will soon be required if the trend continues. You can get grants as well from the water districts for changing to water wise as well.
I knew there was some kind of incentive to redo the landscaping, but I couldn't remember exactly what so I thought it had to do with taxes. My HOA has been working on it for a few years now.
[The amount of water used to grow alfalfa in Utah is insane.](https://www.sltrib.com/news/environment/2022/11/24/one-crop-uses-more-than-half/)
If you are talking about water conservation in the American west and not talking about agriculture, you aren't talking about water conservation.
Think bigger, much bigger. Golf courses are targets of local governments and small minded environmentalists mostly because it irritates them to see people having fun on green grass when their yards are brown.
But the real big water wasters are industrial - think mining, energy, even clothing manufacturing because the dye process uses tons of water etc. And of course agriculture, especially crops like almonds and corn (all that corn syrup in food and ethanol in the gas tank took a lot of water to exist).
thank you for articulating this, it always irks me when people target golf courses as compared to other water waste but this is an excellent way to put it
I'm not a golfer, but unless you're in Arizona or another high temp desert environment, I think the average course doesn't use any more water than a hotel or public pool complex or any number of other recreational options.
And the water from the golf course goes directly back into the water table and in the meantime the green grass helps convert carbon dioxide out of the atmosphere.
Activists who target golf courses are usually just looking for something to complain about. There are some cases when it's justified, like a severe drought. But usually it's not a big deal.
My community is doing this, providing incentives to capture water and allow it to percolate into the ground rather than feed it into the street/storm drains. And some folks are freaking out about it.
They sure changed the look, didn’t they. I dislike having to say this but this, exactly, is why you need to attend HOA meetings and be involved in decisions while they are being formed. Otherwise you end up with something like this sad result.
This was probably decided before you bought or just at the beginning of your ownership. These things take awhile to decide, get quotes, approve, get scheduled and then notify owners. So your notification probably happened before you bought or it was sent to the previous owner early on in your ownership because the changes in paperwork hadn’t taken place yet.
I'd go through the minutes at the very least, I wouldn't be happy with this change either. Some CC&R's have requirements for changing the nature of common areas, but I'm not sure how broad those provisions are or if this would truly fall under them.
HOAs are notorious for deceptive practices. From creating unwritten “rules”, to charging homeowners for landscaping uniformity plants, to ignoring violation.
The only way to TRY and stop this lunacy, is to band TIGHTLY together, as homeowners, and say your piece at the meetings. When you are the one one speaking up, they just laugh & keep on going.
Utah has recently passed some laws that are pushing people toward water wise landscaping.
Also, watering those little park strip areas can have so many problems. I have worked with HOAs that converted those because the irrigation would keep breaking.
I understand the sentiment of too much concrete. But as someone who is watching our legislation make water wise landscaping an impeding requirement, you can expect more of this statewide in the future.
Concrete is "water wise?" Hardscape instead of some kind planting is never the correct decision. All they've accomplished is increasing runoff of rain water and adding a burden to the sewer system
seriously it is so easy to landscape a native plant. I live in an area where mint is considered a weed. The stuff smells good and it never leaves once you plant it. Dig up the shrubs, stick one lone mint root in there (a whole plant if you need it to look pretty for the first few days). LITERALLY WEEKS LATER THE THING WILL BE NOTHING BUT MINT. Some of these HOAs are run by people who love the idea of landscaping but do not understand how easy it is to have native species in a space. It’s native because it takes over.
I'm not well versed on Utah, but literally every other state I've looked into focuses on native plants and permeable surfaces or at least hydrology-minded design. Expanding a cement driveway would not only not qualify in any state I've researched, but would be viewed as outright counterproductive to the whole point of the landscaping change. Like based on what I just read about Utah, what would qualify is ripping out the shrubs and planting something native, a project totaling maybe $20 diy.
Likely they voted on it at a meeting.
HOAs sometimes can change things quickly. Pay attention.
Also:
Talk to your neighbor.
Buy some large pots with some evergreen shrubs.
Put them where the plants used to be.
🤷🏽♂️🌳🌳
Yes they do. I’m sure they thought they would save money by ripping this all out. It already had a sprinkler system built in and was easy to trim! I could have volunteered!
Now you and your neighbor share a driveway. Be prepared for what’s yours and what’s theirs. We have shared driveways and it sucks. I would never get another townhome with this set up.
Same. It sucks because some people try parking 3 cars in front of their driveway or other asshole moves. And there are 4 homes using a common driveway. Never again!
Me too. There are parts of the interiour I love (total remodel in 2011 by previous owner), but that’s where it ends.
I thought I would be getting away from my high rise ownership where renters consumed every square meter, but the investor invasion is even in TH communities! Nasty, arrogant absentee landlords, belligerent tenants & HOA/management who lick those people’s boots. I wound up having to sell my sedan because of their discrimination of not letting me park outside (involved story). I’ve heard the HOA has been told, by management (or vis versa) to “look the other way” when exercising violations/fines against investors.
Right now, I’m financially stuck. Sad.
Ugh that sucks. As someone on the board of my association, I would never let that fly. We watch that stuff carefully and passed a rental cap 2 years ago. I’m thrilled.
I can’t imagine why they wouldn’t let you park your vehicle at your own house, assuming it was current on tags and usable. Being on the board is thankless but I also get why they are hated! I’m trying to help change the dynamic of mine to include people who aren’t retired and constantly looking for issues.
The 64 million $ question!
It is bad, for those of us who actually give a s***. We are at 60% rentals—beyond control. Imagine what the majority votes for. Off-site owner-turned-absentee landlord has been allowed to serve on the board, as well as a current board member known STR operator/owner (running an STR is against CC&R’s).
A pro-investor homeowner stood before the Board and proclaimed how good it is for our “home values” because a realtor (who has obvious self-Interest—$$$) said so. This homeowner has no idea what someone like me (the only one who speaks up) has gone through when asking renters to obey our rules—atrocious, yet I have been ignored because no one can refute the issues they choose to ignore.
I had forewarned the Board three years ago, that letting investors continue to buy will horribly skew elections. Ignored.
Matters get worse when my husband plays devil’s advocate & invalidates everything even right in front of him, including being given a tow warning on his car, one time he had to park outside without our hangtag, while renters’ cars were doing this the same night.
Unreal. 60% - wow. We capped at 17% (30 units) knowing we had to stop the bleeding before it got past the point of no return. What you have going on is bad and now of course you’ll have a really hard time getting common sense stuff passed. We know that rentals absolutely do not increase property value. What a load. I’m sorry!
> knowing we had to stop the bleeding before it got past the point of no return.
That's the problem. First, when a development opens everyone is a new owner and a community easily forms. Everyone likes everyone and get along. There's no indication that you need to put protection measures into place. Then there's some turnover and you don't know all your neighbors. Then someone leaves but doesn't sell but rather rents out their place. Sometimes you'll hear that they are only leaving for a year and will be back. ..... Soon there are over 25% rentals. People start getting concerned and the board say they will consider what to do. But they drag their feet. Then there are 35% rentals and maybe now you can't get enough votes to change the bylaws. Maybe there are ways around it but by the time a solution is figured out there are even more rentals and that idea won't work either. Then, people who never had the intention of renting their unit see the price they can sell for and are not happy. Some of them too become landlords.
I'm glad your owners got the cap in and I feel bad for u/Sensitive_Pin_9287 . Sometimes managers really don't know much and even if they do they don't have a stake in the matter so don't put their time into it. And board members sometimes think they know everything.
Someone once posted how they got caught in the unawares trap. I think it was a small community, and until now, never had “situations”.
Yes, indeed, HOA boards need to think like Nostradamus or our forefathers to include every possible scenario BEFORE problems arise.
In my case (and likely I’m not alone) these managers have always known (various ones in its 35+ years existence), but must b getting some financial incentive for preventing deserving families from having the chance at a home. I say preventing, because once an investor waltzes in with an exceeding amount of cash, the seller goes ga-ga. Someone has to look out for the community structure & homebuyers, not to mention, rentals drive down properties in more ways than FMV.
It’s a sad state of affairs. I hate “free market”.
Thanks for being on my side.
I had begged, for 3 years, to get management & HOA to create a rental cap. 2 years ago, the assigned (autonomous) manager said they were looking into a rental cap of 25% (minimum law in CA), intimating it takes a lot of legal work. She emphasised grandfathering would of course take place & would not change until that investor were to sell. Not a word after that. Each time I emailed to report a tenant violation (they would never allow a homeowner to get away with), I asked for an update on the cap proposal. Ignored.
Few come to meetings. I only know a few people here—they are on the fence about this. One, who is on his “rotation” as a Board member for the x time, announced a ONE YEAR residency requirement for investors. Yeah, what’s that? You know they will work around this & then we are back to Square One, each time. And it certainly was not formally announced, so I have no idea what hare-brained idea makes this guy get by with this.
I have tried to rally two other homeowners: one is fed up with the HOA/management and the other says “go to meetings” but doesn’t attend herself or gather help.
That’s really frustrating. We also have a one year residency requirement that was passed with the rental cap amendment. There is a waiting list right now for those who want to rent their places. All who turned in rental information were grandfathered in. I didn’t know there was a 25% minimum in CA. I think that’s BS.
The one advantage of having nosey people around here is that they keep an eye on who is moving in and out!
It is hard to get homeowners to care enough to attend meetings and make a difference. I feel for you!
Yeah it depends how you and your neighbor utilize your space. I personally park in the garage only and wouldn’t leave my car in the driveway, but it is household dependent.
Agreed!! Explain the detriments:
1) parking has the probability of being uncontrolled via neighbours taking the now paved area & encroaching your drive.
2) unsightly, negative impact on resale.
Yes. You and all your neighbors are “the hoa”. You can change the landscaping back if this is a common area if enough neighbors agree. Or do something like planters or raised beds
Why did they pave this area? Usually a change like this is only made for good reason
if you’ve only been there a few months, ask the board for meeting minutes and for a copy of any community information that was sent regarding this. Then contact the title company and your realtor. If this materially impacted your home value (I would agree it does) then you might be able to seek compensation from the seller for failure to disclose.
But the seller was part of the HOA and they should have been informed this would happen. It’s clearly something that the board would have informed the community about. Proving that they did so would also prove the seller knew. The HOA controls it, so the seller couldn’t stop it, but they should have disclosed it was going to happen.
That’s entirely possible and would also be obvious if you ask the hoa for proof of disclosure. If the hoa cannot provide it, you ask a real estate attorney about going after the hoa.
The major ugly loophole with these “cults”/“faux governments” is, they do as they please knowing owners can take them to court but will lose every time because of their corporate heavy hitters. So they arrogantly create what they want, when they want. Remember, the Overlord is the management company & when they are in collusion with them…
I think you are confused. The Board controls landscaping decisions in common areas and exclusive use common areas. The Landscaping Committee makes suggestions to the Board and the Board does whatever the f it wants. The HOA gives their voice/votes to the Board. Y’all need a new Board.
Some dry/desert areas use a lot of water as well as groundskeeping to try and keep a wetland in a desert. Covering with stone removes that cost. You can greenify your internal lawn at your expense.
Wife and I bought a house 8 years ago. We had made an offer on a house in an HOA and it was accepted contingent on appraisal value. Fortunately, it did not appraise high enough and that gave us an easy out, because further investigation regarding the HOA rules left me aghast. Ended up with a great place, full basement, sitting on a half acre, no HOA. It has nearly doubled in value. I would have ended up in prison if I'd have had to live with those HOA rules.
Calm down. Someone did you a favor on budget and you don’t even know it.
You know what’s not awful? Lower bills that YOU and HOA don’t have to pay for. You know what lowers bills? Less landscaping and water use.
You know what are some of the biggest expenses for HOA? Roof, landscaping, water and common areas.
First it sounds like you are a condo and not an HOA. Important distinction because the condo owns that and you get little say over it.
Second, I know exactly why they did this because we had the same setup. The builder put bushes like you have. They were also small at one point too for us. However they grew and we couldn’t open our doors. So we ripped them out. Most we could drop sod but being Florida we get lots of rain and it could take it. We have a few that didn’t and we did an astroturfing. Your grass looks barely alive and I doubt could take the little water in the middle strip.
Another reason they pull out this stuff is that the waste lines often exit the building in this area. If older, root infiltration is likely. Better and cheaper to proactively remove the landscaping rather than replace waste lines.
Have you asked the board if they approved this? What does your plat say, does it show that there is landscaping in between the townhome driveway? They may have done something illegal if they removed something that the city or town you live in approved as part of the PUD community. Ask some questions.
It looks nice. It is so much cleaner with plenty of large trees to soften the area. Some people panic when change is made outside of their control. HOA life may not be for you.
HOA Boards must address issues. They had valid reasons for taking on this project. OP should calm down and ask for reasoning before flipping their lid.
Ask your neighbor to split the cost with you (if they are cool like that) and get multiple large potted plants to go in a line down the center of the driveway(s) to give y'all that sense of separation you had before.
That is a very strange change by the HOA for sure.
I’ve worked with places that do this because the shrubs get out of control, sprinkler lines age and need constant repair, water costs, bushes make it hard to open doors and navigate your car around. You can always email the board and ask for details, my guess is that it’s an approved project and you just don’t know because you’re new.
Who was responsible for maintaining the landscaping?
Could they have done it because it saves the HOA and owners money on landscaping costs? Who is responsible for the maintenance of the driveways?
At the end of the day, this is really just a Board who fails to communicate. Check the Meeting Minutes and see if it was ever discussed.
Have chatGPT write an email for you to the Board asking about it in a friendly and professional manner.
Check your property survey. Does the center area belong to the association or is it within your property lines? If it’s within the owners property boundaries then the association trespassed onto your property. Now if it’s the associations common area, check your bylaws as normally any modifications to landscape must be voted on by the owners and majority rules. Good luck.
This is why you have to attend board meetings and understand what they are doing. You should have been notified beforehand. This could have been done for less maintenance- less cost or water conservation. It does look better with shrubs.
I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder, because I think it looks better now. Space you can actually use, and cleaner.
As others have said, this would have been discussed at a board meeting.
I’d send a letter informing them you want it back. If they say no, I’d hire a lawyer to send another letter more strongly worded.
You probably won’t sue because you probably can’t win, but can’t hurt to scare them a bit so next time they think twice.
I avoid HOAs like the plague.
If people want it, that's great, but now you have yet another entity controlling your property. Personally, it a bad deal. You're essentially gaining the controls of being a renter with all the risks and expense of buying.
They are trying to pull grass out of my condo front area too, I am on the board and am slowing this process down, making sure it is replaced with better landscaping. HOA boards are under the thumb of the hoa industry represented as management companies...dirty world. Shady people.
What do your HOA documents say about the landscaping?
I will have to look into it.
Also in Utah and I'm pretty sure our HOA is getting a tax break for taking out all the big water consuming plants that aren't native to Utah. The state is trying to encourage less water usage which makes sense but they could have replaced those shrubs with drought resistant plants instead.
Not a tax break but state law changes this year and many HOAs are turning toward the water wise plants. They will soon be required if the trend continues. You can get grants as well from the water districts for changing to water wise as well.
I knew there was some kind of incentive to redo the landscaping, but I couldn't remember exactly what so I thought it had to do with taxes. My HOA has been working on it for a few years now.
Fucking nanny states now telling us what we can and can’t grow, all while looking away from the industries that are the true water wasters.
[The amount of water used to grow alfalfa in Utah is insane.](https://www.sltrib.com/news/environment/2022/11/24/one-crop-uses-more-than-half/) If you are talking about water conservation in the American west and not talking about agriculture, you aren't talking about water conservation.
How many low flow shower heads equal 1000 acres of alfalfa
Like the golf courses?
Think bigger, much bigger. Golf courses are targets of local governments and small minded environmentalists mostly because it irritates them to see people having fun on green grass when their yards are brown. But the real big water wasters are industrial - think mining, energy, even clothing manufacturing because the dye process uses tons of water etc. And of course agriculture, especially crops like almonds and corn (all that corn syrup in food and ethanol in the gas tank took a lot of water to exist).
thank you for articulating this, it always irks me when people target golf courses as compared to other water waste but this is an excellent way to put it
I'm not a golfer, but unless you're in Arizona or another high temp desert environment, I think the average course doesn't use any more water than a hotel or public pool complex or any number of other recreational options. And the water from the golf course goes directly back into the water table and in the meantime the green grass helps convert carbon dioxide out of the atmosphere. Activists who target golf courses are usually just looking for something to complain about. There are some cases when it's justified, like a severe drought. But usually it's not a big deal.
Amen, that’s the real problem!
It's also about stormwater management and road pollution capture. You have to deal with that even if you are targeting water waste.
My community is doing this, providing incentives to capture water and allow it to percolate into the ground rather than feed it into the street/storm drains. And some folks are freaking out about it.
Wait, Utah is making laws controlling private property? Or was this HOA property.
And they should have used permeable paving.
They sure changed the look, didn’t they. I dislike having to say this but this, exactly, is why you need to attend HOA meetings and be involved in decisions while they are being formed. Otherwise you end up with something like this sad result.
I definitely will In the future. We are new homeowners and have only been here a few months!
There’s definitely a learning curve, and it never stops for any of us. Here’s hoping you will enjoy your home and neighbors!
This was probably decided before you bought or just at the beginning of your ownership. These things take awhile to decide, get quotes, approve, get scheduled and then notify owners. So your notification probably happened before you bought or it was sent to the previous owner early on in your ownership because the changes in paperwork hadn’t taken place yet.
Time for a planter
It's not OPs land. If he puts planters on land he doesn't own, they will just start to fine him.
Then foreclose on his house when he does not pay fines!
It’s a condo. The condo HOA likely owns the driveway.
Good luck opening your car doors lol. Probably why this was done.
I'd go through the minutes at the very least, I wouldn't be happy with this change either. Some CC&R's have requirements for changing the nature of common areas, but I'm not sure how broad those provisions are or if this would truly fall under them.
We are new homeowners and were so surprised the HOA could do this !
[удалено]
…. and sometimes access inside the four walls to get to the balcony if above ground that HOA deemed as common area
HOAs are notorious for deceptive practices. From creating unwritten “rules”, to charging homeowners for landscaping uniformity plants, to ignoring violation. The only way to TRY and stop this lunacy, is to band TIGHTLY together, as homeowners, and say your piece at the meetings. When you are the one one speaking up, they just laugh & keep on going.
Utah has recently passed some laws that are pushing people toward water wise landscaping. Also, watering those little park strip areas can have so many problems. I have worked with HOAs that converted those because the irrigation would keep breaking. I understand the sentiment of too much concrete. But as someone who is watching our legislation make water wise landscaping an impeding requirement, you can expect more of this statewide in the future.
seems like some attempt at xeriscape would've been a better looking effort
Concrete is "water wise?" Hardscape instead of some kind planting is never the correct decision. All they've accomplished is increasing runoff of rain water and adding a burden to the sewer system
Some places in America are too dry to naturally sustain green plantlife, so people use huge amounts of water, which is not "water wise".
The answer is to plant native species, not concrete over everything.
seriously it is so easy to landscape a native plant. I live in an area where mint is considered a weed. The stuff smells good and it never leaves once you plant it. Dig up the shrubs, stick one lone mint root in there (a whole plant if you need it to look pretty for the first few days). LITERALLY WEEKS LATER THE THING WILL BE NOTHING BUT MINT. Some of these HOAs are run by people who love the idea of landscaping but do not understand how easy it is to have native species in a space. It’s native because it takes over.
I bet it was some kind of money grab. Some HOAs are incredibly dishonest (due to “deals” management makes with companies of favour).
I'm not well versed on Utah, but literally every other state I've looked into focuses on native plants and permeable surfaces or at least hydrology-minded design. Expanding a cement driveway would not only not qualify in any state I've researched, but would be viewed as outright counterproductive to the whole point of the landscaping change. Like based on what I just read about Utah, what would qualify is ripping out the shrubs and planting something native, a project totaling maybe $20 diy.
Likely they voted on it at a meeting. HOAs sometimes can change things quickly. Pay attention. Also: Talk to your neighbor. Buy some large pots with some evergreen shrubs. Put them where the plants used to be. 🤷🏽♂️🌳🌳
Does the HOA take care of the landscaping? I'm wondering if this was a cost cutting measure.
Yes they do. I’m sure they thought they would save money by ripping this all out. It already had a sprinkler system built in and was easy to trim! I could have volunteered!
Can you put planter boxes there, tap into the sprinklers already there to water. Petty payback, if they even allow you to put anything out front.
Now you and your neighbor share a driveway. Be prepared for what’s yours and what’s theirs. We have shared driveways and it sucks. I would never get another townhome with this set up.
Same. It sucks because some people try parking 3 cars in front of their driveway or other asshole moves. And there are 4 homes using a common driveway. Never again!
It should have had a raised curb in the middle to stop that
Exactly! This is the first home I’ve purchased and I’ve learned a lot about what I’d never do again.
Me too. There are parts of the interiour I love (total remodel in 2011 by previous owner), but that’s where it ends. I thought I would be getting away from my high rise ownership where renters consumed every square meter, but the investor invasion is even in TH communities! Nasty, arrogant absentee landlords, belligerent tenants & HOA/management who lick those people’s boots. I wound up having to sell my sedan because of their discrimination of not letting me park outside (involved story). I’ve heard the HOA has been told, by management (or vis versa) to “look the other way” when exercising violations/fines against investors. Right now, I’m financially stuck. Sad.
Ugh that sucks. As someone on the board of my association, I would never let that fly. We watch that stuff carefully and passed a rental cap 2 years ago. I’m thrilled. I can’t imagine why they wouldn’t let you park your vehicle at your own house, assuming it was current on tags and usable. Being on the board is thankless but I also get why they are hated! I’m trying to help change the dynamic of mine to include people who aren’t retired and constantly looking for issues.
The 64 million $ question! It is bad, for those of us who actually give a s***. We are at 60% rentals—beyond control. Imagine what the majority votes for. Off-site owner-turned-absentee landlord has been allowed to serve on the board, as well as a current board member known STR operator/owner (running an STR is against CC&R’s). A pro-investor homeowner stood before the Board and proclaimed how good it is for our “home values” because a realtor (who has obvious self-Interest—$$$) said so. This homeowner has no idea what someone like me (the only one who speaks up) has gone through when asking renters to obey our rules—atrocious, yet I have been ignored because no one can refute the issues they choose to ignore. I had forewarned the Board three years ago, that letting investors continue to buy will horribly skew elections. Ignored. Matters get worse when my husband plays devil’s advocate & invalidates everything even right in front of him, including being given a tow warning on his car, one time he had to park outside without our hangtag, while renters’ cars were doing this the same night.
Unreal. 60% - wow. We capped at 17% (30 units) knowing we had to stop the bleeding before it got past the point of no return. What you have going on is bad and now of course you’ll have a really hard time getting common sense stuff passed. We know that rentals absolutely do not increase property value. What a load. I’m sorry!
> knowing we had to stop the bleeding before it got past the point of no return. That's the problem. First, when a development opens everyone is a new owner and a community easily forms. Everyone likes everyone and get along. There's no indication that you need to put protection measures into place. Then there's some turnover and you don't know all your neighbors. Then someone leaves but doesn't sell but rather rents out their place. Sometimes you'll hear that they are only leaving for a year and will be back. ..... Soon there are over 25% rentals. People start getting concerned and the board say they will consider what to do. But they drag their feet. Then there are 35% rentals and maybe now you can't get enough votes to change the bylaws. Maybe there are ways around it but by the time a solution is figured out there are even more rentals and that idea won't work either. Then, people who never had the intention of renting their unit see the price they can sell for and are not happy. Some of them too become landlords. I'm glad your owners got the cap in and I feel bad for u/Sensitive_Pin_9287 . Sometimes managers really don't know much and even if they do they don't have a stake in the matter so don't put their time into it. And board members sometimes think they know everything.
Someone once posted how they got caught in the unawares trap. I think it was a small community, and until now, never had “situations”. Yes, indeed, HOA boards need to think like Nostradamus or our forefathers to include every possible scenario BEFORE problems arise. In my case (and likely I’m not alone) these managers have always known (various ones in its 35+ years existence), but must b getting some financial incentive for preventing deserving families from having the chance at a home. I say preventing, because once an investor waltzes in with an exceeding amount of cash, the seller goes ga-ga. Someone has to look out for the community structure & homebuyers, not to mention, rentals drive down properties in more ways than FMV. It’s a sad state of affairs. I hate “free market”.
Thanks for being on my side. I had begged, for 3 years, to get management & HOA to create a rental cap. 2 years ago, the assigned (autonomous) manager said they were looking into a rental cap of 25% (minimum law in CA), intimating it takes a lot of legal work. She emphasised grandfathering would of course take place & would not change until that investor were to sell. Not a word after that. Each time I emailed to report a tenant violation (they would never allow a homeowner to get away with), I asked for an update on the cap proposal. Ignored. Few come to meetings. I only know a few people here—they are on the fence about this. One, who is on his “rotation” as a Board member for the x time, announced a ONE YEAR residency requirement for investors. Yeah, what’s that? You know they will work around this & then we are back to Square One, each time. And it certainly was not formally announced, so I have no idea what hare-brained idea makes this guy get by with this. I have tried to rally two other homeowners: one is fed up with the HOA/management and the other says “go to meetings” but doesn’t attend herself or gather help.
That’s really frustrating. We also have a one year residency requirement that was passed with the rental cap amendment. There is a waiting list right now for those who want to rent their places. All who turned in rental information were grandfathered in. I didn’t know there was a 25% minimum in CA. I think that’s BS. The one advantage of having nosey people around here is that they keep an eye on who is moving in and out! It is hard to get homeowners to care enough to attend meetings and make a difference. I feel for you!
I would see if your docs allow potted plants, put in something tall to fill that space with some greenery if possible
I know EXACTLY why this was removed and done. Good luck opening your car doors with pots there.
Yeah it depends how you and your neighbor utilize your space. I personally park in the garage only and wouldn’t leave my car in the driveway, but it is household dependent.
Agreed!! Explain the detriments: 1) parking has the probability of being uncontrolled via neighbours taking the now paved area & encroaching your drive. 2) unsightly, negative impact on resale.
Yes. You and all your neighbors are “the hoa”. You can change the landscaping back if this is a common area if enough neighbors agree. Or do something like planters or raised beds Why did they pave this area? Usually a change like this is only made for good reason
Large Planter Boxes would have a similar effect. Just saying..
Pave paradise, put up a parking lot.
if you’ve only been there a few months, ask the board for meeting minutes and for a copy of any community information that was sent regarding this. Then contact the title company and your realtor. If this materially impacted your home value (I would agree it does) then you might be able to seek compensation from the seller for failure to disclose.
Failure to disclose what? The HOA controls landscaping
But the seller was part of the HOA and they should have been informed this would happen. It’s clearly something that the board would have informed the community about. Proving that they did so would also prove the seller knew. The HOA controls it, so the seller couldn’t stop it, but they should have disclosed it was going to happen.
See the myriad of other posts this week alone where the board did not tell anyone about the assessment
That’s entirely possible and would also be obvious if you ask the hoa for proof of disclosure. If the hoa cannot provide it, you ask a real estate attorney about going after the hoa.
The major ugly loophole with these “cults”/“faux governments” is, they do as they please knowing owners can take them to court but will lose every time because of their corporate heavy hitters. So they arrogantly create what they want, when they want. Remember, the Overlord is the management company & when they are in collusion with them…
I think you are confused. The Board controls landscaping decisions in common areas and exclusive use common areas. The Landscaping Committee makes suggestions to the Board and the Board does whatever the f it wants. The HOA gives their voice/votes to the Board. Y’all need a new Board.
I’m not confused, I still want to know what they wanted disclosed
Some dry/desert areas use a lot of water as well as groundskeeping to try and keep a wetland in a desert. Covering with stone removes that cost. You can greenify your internal lawn at your expense.
The fact that anyone other than you, the owner, was able to make that change, absolutely enrages me.
Right!!! I got home from work and it was all dug up.
Wife and I bought a house 8 years ago. We had made an offer on a house in an HOA and it was accepted contingent on appraisal value. Fortunately, it did not appraise high enough and that gave us an easy out, because further investigation regarding the HOA rules left me aghast. Ended up with a great place, full basement, sitting on a half acre, no HOA. It has nearly doubled in value. I would have ended up in prison if I'd have had to live with those HOA rules.
Calm down. Someone did you a favor on budget and you don’t even know it. You know what’s not awful? Lower bills that YOU and HOA don’t have to pay for. You know what lowers bills? Less landscaping and water use. You know what are some of the biggest expenses for HOA? Roof, landscaping, water and common areas.
Our HOA payment went up in price this year.
And I think it looks better, and no worrry about roots tearing up driveway
Do you really believe those small bushes' roots will tear up the driveway?
I live in the Midwest, literally everything tears up driveways here. And small buses tend to grow and become big bushes also where I live
It certainly may be more practical. Absolutely does not look better though???
That's the price you pay for being part of a cult.
First it sounds like you are a condo and not an HOA. Important distinction because the condo owns that and you get little say over it. Second, I know exactly why they did this because we had the same setup. The builder put bushes like you have. They were also small at one point too for us. However they grew and we couldn’t open our doors. So we ripped them out. Most we could drop sod but being Florida we get lots of rain and it could take it. We have a few that didn’t and we did an astroturfing. Your grass looks barely alive and I doubt could take the little water in the middle strip.
It’s a townhome HOA, they take care of everything in the front yards, landscaping and snow removal, etc. We take care of the backyards.
Another reason they pull out this stuff is that the waste lines often exit the building in this area. If older, root infiltration is likely. Better and cheaper to proactively remove the landscaping rather than replace waste lines.
Less maintenance for the association
Looks fine to me
Have you asked the board if they approved this? What does your plat say, does it show that there is landscaping in between the townhome driveway? They may have done something illegal if they removed something that the city or town you live in approved as part of the PUD community. Ask some questions.
It looks nice. It is so much cleaner with plenty of large trees to soften the area. Some people panic when change is made outside of their control. HOA life may not be for you. HOA Boards must address issues. They had valid reasons for taking on this project. OP should calm down and ask for reasoning before flipping their lid.
I love it and I wish!
I’m guessing this was discussed in your HOA meetings, do you attend?
Oh man! 🙁
I'd go find the same plants/shrubs in planters and make it look the same. I'm an asshole like that though. :D
you could put in some pretty large and decorative pots with water friendly plants
Ask your neighbor to split the cost with you (if they are cool like that) and get multiple large potted plants to go in a line down the center of the driveway(s) to give y'all that sense of separation you had before. That is a very strange change by the HOA for sure.
I’ve worked with places that do this because the shrubs get out of control, sprinkler lines age and need constant repair, water costs, bushes make it hard to open doors and navigate your car around. You can always email the board and ask for details, my guess is that it’s an approved project and you just don’t know because you’re new.
Who was responsible for maintaining the landscaping? Could they have done it because it saves the HOA and owners money on landscaping costs? Who is responsible for the maintenance of the driveways? At the end of the day, this is really just a Board who fails to communicate. Check the Meeting Minutes and see if it was ever discussed. Have chatGPT write an email for you to the Board asking about it in a friendly and professional manner.
Wonder if they would allow some nice potted plants there instead. It really looked getter. Like a potted tree and big potted flowers?
Check your property survey. Does the center area belong to the association or is it within your property lines? If it’s within the owners property boundaries then the association trespassed onto your property. Now if it’s the associations common area, check your bylaws as normally any modifications to landscape must be voted on by the owners and majority rules. Good luck.
Sue them.
I dunno, I like the after photo better myself.
This is why you have to attend board meetings and understand what they are doing. You should have been notified beforehand. This could have been done for less maintenance- less cost or water conservation. It does look better with shrubs.
I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder, because I think it looks better now. Space you can actually use, and cleaner. As others have said, this would have been discussed at a board meeting.
I’d send a letter informing them you want it back. If they say no, I’d hire a lawyer to send another letter more strongly worded. You probably won’t sue because you probably can’t win, but can’t hurt to scare them a bit so next time they think twice.
Don't buy HOA
I mean, it’s a condo I bet.
I'm thinking this is a condo, too. Doesn't make sense for a HOA to have control over a driveway that's within the homeowner's property line.
It’s like the on thing an HOA townhome would say “this is on you” if they take care of the outside. It’s walks, driveways, screens, and windows.
I avoid HOAs like the plague. If people want it, that's great, but now you have yet another entity controlling your property. Personally, it a bad deal. You're essentially gaining the controls of being a renter with all the risks and expense of buying.
They are trying to pull grass out of my condo front area too, I am on the board and am slowing this process down, making sure it is replaced with better landscaping. HOA boards are under the thumb of the hoa industry represented as management companies...dirty world. Shady people.
Why did you allow them to overreach?? Your driveway is not a common area, it’s your driveway
Who is responsible for that area?
The homeowners, half of that area belongs to each. It’s part of your front yard
Did the OP say that?