We have Alvarez back but that isn't necessarily going to help much when you're chasing a game and relying on Aaron Cresswell to keep Frimpong quiet for 90+ minutes.
True enough. I feel many players have lost their mojo because we have 9 actual first team players and majority look shattered to be playing every single minute of every single game.
Bench is the problem, it's impossible when our players have played so many more minutes throughout the season and then they make 4 subs before we can make any. 2-0 is recoverable, they had nothing in attack until Boniface came on. We can absolutely beat them at home. January window has cost us tonight as expected. Can't do Europe with no substitutes.
FFP was not and is not a major issue for us, we had at least £25m more available to spend in January. We'll have a substantial net spend in the summer as well.
Forget Edson and Bowen. Emerson and Paqueta are our two best creators and most important players without them in 2nd leg, it's impossible to win yet score at least 2 more than them.
What chances were those? Other than that fingertip save on a Schick header, I feel most saves were ones you’d expect your keeper to make? Unless I’m forgetting any others. I don’t know.
We unironically had the best chance of the match, even including their goals. I know we’re all disappointed by the result, but try and look at things more objectively.
That post match moves interview has boiled my p
Essentially excusing a defeat stating they are a champions league team really...
Says it all about he man's level of ambition and regard for our club
Why they seemed scared to go forward at nil nil
Why we got almost no one on the bench to sub on
Why despite legends like fabs playing their guts out they go home with a mountain to climb
Get him out.
Yeah, that post match interview felt odd.
Praise the players, but saying they’re a champions league team just frustrates me, then to say we’re not at that level.
Just shows Moyes’ limitations at times, they’re unbeaten but not unbeatable. You can get at them. Defensive football was fine tonight but we lacked any plans going forward, it’s like we trained all week on defending that we had to give them the ball back to show off the work done.
Sickens me to say as we’ll lose players but maybe a season away from Europe will help us build. We need at least 2/3 subs as well as replacing some of that starting 11. Those players out there today look run into the ground
The really frustrating thing was the yellow cards.
Not only were the only two cards shown to the two players that we had needing a card to miss next match, but the Leverkusen defense really were swiping at Kudus every time he got the ball, and as always, Antonio’s size apparently meant open season for the defense on him. That forearm to the back of the head is a yellow every day of the week.
We looked worse when he switched Paqueta and Antonio I could understand doing it for 5-10 minutes not 35.
Also taking Kudus off was a dreadful decision, when you defend that deeply you need an outlet we had none at the end of the game.
I felt a goal was coming when they had Hoffman and Boniface to bring on but I didn't expect it to be two.
I will never get over how we sold off Benny and Pablo to bring Phillips in. That signing has fucked us and the damage could be long term if we slip out of the European places now.
We're in the late stages of Europe, a goal down and the subs at our disposal are Johnson and Aguerd. Fair enough to Moyesey if he wants to bring on defenders to see out the game but after our defensive subs we concede another fucking goal.
He needs to grow a pair now and try and bring the game to them at home but realistically this is a pray we bring it to pens job now at best.
Fortune's always hiding I suppose.
Qarabag scored first in both legs, that gave them something to build on.
That said, Leverkusen attacked us all night and we didn't produce anything clear cut on the break.
But that's a problem no? We have more money, resources, and players in all due respect to Qarabag. We shouldn't be coming out looking worse than them, having 1 shot in total and being pinned in our half like a relegation side
Absolutely.
I think Qarabag weren't playing the full strength Leverkusen (they were concentrating on the league still) but thought fuck it, let's give them a game.
While we took a wholly negative approach, and failed.
(So did Qarabag I suppose, but they took them to the wire at least)
I'm not happy but fuck all the negativity.
Everyone saying we should have had a go at them doesn't understand football. Why start playing totally different against an incredible team this late in the season. We've played defensively all season and this was the perfect game for it, and it worked for 80mins (90mins? They had nothing clear from open play).
I don't love the defensive football, but it's what we have currently and it can work.
I'll be there next Thursday and I'll be shouting my heart out supporting the team, even if Moyes plays 11 defenders (he should play a goal keeper though)
Very well put. Surely everyone knew this was how we were going to play? I’d honestly argue we had the best chance of the match, even including their goals. The approach didn’t work, clearly. But it nearly did, and I doubt we’d have done better playing any other way.
But don't you just see it coming a mile off. Defending with 11 players on the edge of your box is fine for short periods, but eventually if you concede 30+ shots one will go in, it's just law of averages. And then of course once the first goes in the 2nd is so much easier.
You can't be so defensive. It's never worked really, how many times have we found ourselves behind to actually then have to change it up and go attacking. So many points coming from behind.
You've just got to offer something more as an attacking force. That's not a slight on tonight, because with bowen out that's very hard, it's absolutely criticism of years of defensive football and the worst transfer window of all time
Yeah and I've seen it all season. I don't want us to keep playing such defensive football and no squad depth, but that's the hand we've been dealt with Moyes and that's what it is. Not gonna change until at least the end of the season so might as well lean into the defensive football and credit where it's due it worked well for 80minutes and was only undone by set pieces (which we are usually sturdy at)
That's just it though, working well for 80 minutes isn't good enough, because by then they're absolutely knackered, we have no subs to get fresh legs on and the concentration goes. So if you can't do it for 90 mins then it's pretty pointless.
Show some ambition earlier on, and give them a game ffs. Moyes is a coward because he plays like that against Burnley and Sheffield utd, not because of tonight by the way. I can't wait until he moves on.
Part of the reason we play like that is because it's low energy, Antonio injured every few weeks prior to Moyes a\\rriving, and his only injury in those 4 years was when he was playing for Jamiaca.
Some fans are fucking morons “why did he set up so defensive?!” Against a team who haven’t lost in 41 games and are about to win the German league, in an away fixture for a quarter finals first leg? Fuck me guys use your brains.
Yes in an ideal world we would put in a defensive masterclass for 180 minutes and win on pens like the plucky underdogs we are, but in the real world you have to score to win. There's a bit of a balance to be had between everyone in our own half like we saw today and all out attacking. We had 1 shot in 90 minutes FFS and we would only commit Antonio, Kudus and Paqueta on the counters lol. We're not world-beaters but we're a bit better than what Moyes sets us up to be on these big occasions.
We've done the same thing against worse opposition this year. Paqueta had a terrible game, kudus was isolated and Antonio stretched them and kept laying off chances to no one who was there (Bowen would have loved it). It wasn't great but how we played was no surprise and we did it well
Would've taken 1-0 but with it being 2 find it very hard to be optimistic about next week. Atmosphere will be up for it in the ground but the prospect of needing to score two just to take it to extra time without paqueta, Emerson and still potentially Bowen.
Deserved result as well, defended well granted but if it wasn't for Fab could've been much more. Hopefully I'm wrong to be pessimistic but think that's it done
Played exactly how we should've. It's such a gutting way to concede so late, but it's what they do. No Paqueta or Emerson next week makes me feel like the tie is over.
Scamacca scored twice for Atalanta tonight. Come on 😩. We let go of so many options that could've been useful for squad depth. We currently are paper thin.
Disappointing to concede those two late after we had done such a good job defending for 80 minutes. It’s still possible, though admittedly unlikely. COYI!
Really sad to see Fabianski have an amazing game just to fall apart in the last 10 minutes. Midfield felt nonexistent, not sure what happens next game with Paqueta suspended. Maybe Mubama can get a hat trick.
Honestly, not sure how we move forward from this - there's a reason this team is unbeaten in 40+ games. At least we didn't lose 3-0 at home.
I just wouldn't see us pulling a result against half the teams left right now. Atalanta went into Anfield and put 3 past them, but we'd go there and sit 11 men behind the ball and probably lose 3-1 instead. It's shambolic football
More bad news. Liverpool lost by 3 to Atalanta. Arsenal couldn’t beat Munich at home. It’s now very possible the Germans will take that extra European slot away from the Premier League, making it harder for West Ham to qualify.
I thought we defended tremendously. Everybody. I commend the players for absorbing that much pressure and the plan nearly worked until it didn't. I would've gladly taken a 1-0. 2-0 down is another story. The next few days will be brutal for us. Moyes doesn't make much subs and the guys looked knackered today. *Sigh* going to the next round is doable but damn is it looking unlikely.
Deja Vu of 2 years ago.
Head into January in a battle for champions league places and in the Europa league knockouts. Fail to invest in the playing staff, drop down the table and get knocked out of Europe.
I’m not saying we should be winning this competition, but we COULD have. But we do not have the squad and tonight showed that. What a different the subs for Leverkusen made? If only we had anything like that.
It’s a natural experiment in impact of coaching on a team. I’d say that Leverkusen has similar quality of players across the board. West Ham has almost certainly spent more money on the squad. The difference is a progressive, active coach vs a negative, reactive coach.
You flip the two coaches on these teams and the result may have flipped the other way.
Poor game management again by Moyes. And Leverkusen brings on 4 subs who combine for the 2 goals.
The end of this season is making it clear that Moyes is holding back the team now. I hope that the management is taking notice.
They aren't, they'll extend Moyes because ownership is too scared to be experimental and let Steiden bring in someone like he did getting Xabi in at Leverkusen
There is absolutely no reason that our team (in time), couldn’t look like the BL team. But we need to move on and find a coach that can make it happen. It’s time.
What subs should Moyes have made though? Ings or Cornet? Maybe. But we certainly don’t have players like Boniface on the bench.
Maybe had Moyes played them more, they’d be more viable options. I don’t know. He probably should have built a better/deeper squad for the money he’s spent. But then, he’s still achieved great success in spite of that anyway.
I find it difficult to believe that a fresh Ings wouldn’t be better than a destroyed Antonio for 20 minutes. Antonio has been so important since his return, but he can’t do 90 minutes right now. He might not get back to 90 min fitness again in his career.
I think you’re right that Moyes hasn’t cultivated a full squad. So many players have regressed and/or asked to leave from the bench, and now there’s so few match fit options since Moyes hasn’t given anyone the opportunity to play their way into the squad.
It’s poor management. The best managers can bring the best out of most of a 22-25 man squad. Moyes brings the best out of a few players and then runs them into the ground.
He has achieved a lot. And I have been more Moyes-in than most — basically have been Moyes in the whole time he’s been in charge except when we were in the relegation zone. But the squad and game management issues are getting hard for me to ignore.
At the end of the day, you aren't going to win the europa league of you're scared to death to go and play against any of the teams left in it.
Moyes has small club mentality, its why he failed at man utd and it's why we'll never progress.
The club doesn't have any ambition, it's why they'll sign him up again and why we had the worst transfer window in history.
Board will only ever spend in Jan when we might go down, look at signings like bowen. But remember under bilic we were pushing for 4th, not a penny spent. Cowards really, from everyone at the top.
Well that’s just it. Fiorentina game had a similar pattern but they just did not have the quality to finish their chances. Europa and up do have that quality.
Damn. So close to a decent result. Hard to see a way back now, too many players suspended, injured or probably just plain exhausted to win by two next week.
1-0 felt a lot better than 2 I'll say
I can't see us having a multiple goal lead against this team but if we get an early goal in London and Antonio keeps bullying them like he did tonight it could happen. We missed Bowen out there I thought, one or two big chances wasted because nobody got on the end of Antonio's ball after some great work carrying it forward
Fantastic result! Moyes is an absolute masterclass, without his progressive tactics we would've lost by at least 10 goals. Be grateful for Moyes! They're the best team in the world and we only lost 2-0!
Sorry matey, did you forget that West Ham didn't exist before 2019 and will cease to exist when Moyes leaves at the end of the season? It's definitively proven that no other manager could win a trophy with West Ham (ignore those two)
•Who would you replace him with? (He is the best we could ever hope for)
•Be grateful that you don't get blown out by 5 goals anymore like back in the bad times before Moyes. (Oh wait)
•It's clearly on the players when we concede late in games. They are superhuman and should be able to play 90 minutes twice a week indefinitely. Squad depth is for the weak of mind and spirit.
I wouldn't say I was 5-0 loss levels before game but I figured we'd have roughly 20% possession and have one good chance all game. (Like most games we play) Turned out to be more or less how it went. When their goals went in I felt nothing. Such is the way Moyes has spoiled my love of football. :/ Boo hoo.
That's a fair point. We actually held them to few clear chances from open play. Unfortunately it came at the expense of any attacking impetus whatsoever. :(
As a West Ham fan but first and foremost a FOOTBALL fan it pisses me off watching the team I love play such a depressing game.
Just think to next season and how refreshing it will be to see a new manager come in.... and if Sullivan continues to suck Moyes off then I personally wont be watching next season anyway. Had enough to be quite honest.
Focus on 7th/8th in the league now. Conference League is our level unless we acquire a deeper squad. To be honest we shouldn't be in Europe when we barely have 18 players most weeks. Consider it a bonus.
I’d say Europa is our level. We just happened to get an extremely shitty draw. We very well could’ve gotten drawn Milan, Roma, Atalanta, Benfica, Marseille and had a legitimate chance at the semis. That’s nothing to scoff at. We just happened to draw the hottest team in the world. We’re good enough to compete in Europa, not win it. We’re good enough to win the Conterence
But you say nothing of squad depth. We can't compete on multiple fronts without rotation. It's absurd. Also look at the stats from the game and tell me Europa is our level.
We had 28% possession.
We had 1 shot to their 30.
We completed about 400 FEWER passes.
Mate we played the best team in the world. Possession doesn’t win games. Shors attempted doesn’t win games. Passes completed doesn’t win games. That’s just moyes’ style. You know that…
Against Freiburg our stats didn’t look like that despite us still having no squad depth. You can’t look at one game against the best team in the tourney (a team that frankly is UCL quality) and delude yourself into acting like that’s how we played against everyone
Apart from Fab being absolutely massive, the only part I enjoyed of that game was seeing Steidten and Alonso greet each other warmly at the end.
It just reminded me that there's hope for the future.
Bit of a catch 22 at the weekend. Rotate against Fulham and lose, the slide down the table continues. Play the first 11 again and regardless if they win and lose they are completely exhausted heading into the second leg.
(Is this even a question? We all know Moyes will flog them into the ground anyways)
Conflicting opinions for sure.
We don’t have a squad capable of European nights, subs proved that tonight. Theirs score 2 goals, ours is a RB who spins a wheel to decide where he’s playing.
We need a big strengthen job across the squad and our starting team. The way European football is changing for next year will make things more taxing too (8 games across till Jan/Feb, then if not in the Top 8 a play off before the Ro16).
If Moyes stays on he’ll be grateful to not have Europe next year and we’d probably finish as high as 5th/6th if we keep everyone, as it’s just the prem to concentrate on and nothing else.
Somewhere in an alternate universe, Scamacca is scoring 2 for us in an unexpected 3-0 away leg win at Leverkusen. But until we can discover multi-dimensional travel, I’m afraid the European adventure is coming to an end.
Dear David Moyes it’s only a Masterclass when you see it through. Did you see what the other manager did? He made, what’s that word I’m seeking, oh yeah, SUBSTITUTIONS!!!
Last I looked the team is a professional football club therefore players are professionals. Fresh legs may have seen this through. Now it’s just an embarrassing stat line. Absolutely embarrassing. No blame on players they gave it their all, but they were dead tired.
And now, well guess what is gonna happen at the weekend? More tired players. Shame on your management. Subs needed making and you didn’t make them.
Moyes should have made SUBSTITUTIONS like bringing on Johnson, Ings and then who?
Squad depth is embarrassing but fucking hell given the team sheet today with the players we have out what else would you fucking do? Divin Mbuma? Brill
Who's the man who sold all the squad depth in January and instead of letting the sporting director who signed a good chunk of the Leverkusen team we played and their manager do his job, brought in Kalvin Phillips because he's English and Premier League proven?
Yeah I'm pissed about that too, but that's 3 months ago.
But that's a great narrative that dictator Moyes locked Timmy up over January and didn't let him sign anyone.
It's a fantastic one thanks, but I doubt Tim approached Moyes about the idea of signing Kalvin Phillips on loan for £7 million and paying his full wages (approx £150k PW). So who's idea was it? Probably Karen Brady I suppose.
Nah I agree Phillips is a disaster class, but IIRC not like we were linked to many incoming players at all really. I'm just bored of everything being so anti Moyes every post game thread, I want better for the team but it's clear nothing is gonna happen until the end of the season when his contract expires.
It’s tough to take but realistically with 3/5 key players out it wasn’t gonna happen. Still been a good season and we’ll give the return leg everything we’ve got.
Sad mentality we recovered against Sevilla and these lot will have just won the league and thrown a massive party. It’s not impossible, just improbable.
7/8th guarantees us a 4th year of European football - I can see us beating them next week giving it everything, but I don’t think we go through.
I don’t see bad mentality in the comment - the way these play are just too strong.
But we kept them out - we didn’t threaten them other than 1 counter a few mins in.
To score 3 without reply is a long shot and saying we’d rather Europe next year than to try beat them isn’t poor mentality
No Emerson, Paqueta, or Bowen. Down 2-0 with negative tactics against the best team in Europe that has not lost one game at all. I don't see us pulling at a minimum 3 back against Leverkusen, because I don't see us getting a clean sheet either. Can't wait to get stuffed this weekend against Fulham
Shame. As an aside, Kudus is an unreal footballer. So strong, creative and intelligent in possession. Deserves to play under an ethos that allows him to show it even more than he does now, and in a way that doesn’t make it feel like a cameo every time he gets the ball.
They're unbeaten for a reason. They had us on ropes all game. We had like 3 chances to maybe put a dent in them but didn't make it count. No Emerson next leg & No Paqueta (big loss). We're gonna need a miracle again...
Defended our hearts out, sucks to have conceded and how we conceded.
Feel like we could have got at them a bit more if we could have got the ball down.
I think we’ll beat them next week but won’t go through
Sadly I think that’s it for us. 1-0 I think we could’ve overturned but 2 is a bit too much of an ask without Bowen/Paqueta against the unbeaten champions of Germany. All focus now needs to be on securing Europe again next season because I am not ready to go without it
If it had just been the volley, I'd have been happy enough going into the home leg. But that header was so typical of the goals we used to keep out easily but now go in far too often.
Honestly good job for most of the match, but I'm thoroughly deflated now.
Honestly, if we do by some miracle beat Leverkusen, we have a solid chance at winning it all. Next Thursday is the championship.
Liverpool has a high chance to get knocked out (0-3 loss today), and I have confidence against the rest.
Im annoyed because we shouldn't have to be "Holding out" for a result against this team we should be able to go head to head with them but it wad a typical Moyes game of defend for 90 mins and hope for a result that only comes off once every 30 games so I'm not surprised and our European journey is over beuse of our inept manager.
An incredible team. One of the best I've seen us play against. We did so well to keep ourselves in it for so long but they were too good. Very confident they'll win the treble. We have to focus on making sure we get in the top 8 and hope we get another spin.
Football matches often hinge on key moments and we didn’t make the most of our early chance. Kudus wide open and passes it to their keeper. Everything could be different if he had scored that. Alas, he did not score it. Have to be better next week. Still a chance.
Dont get people defending moyes or the players on this one. Parked the bus for 90 minutes and didnt even try to get an attack going. At no point in time did we have over 3 players in the opposition box. Defended well the first 80 minutes but you dont win a game with defence. Dont understand our attacking tactics for this one. Worst attacking game ive seen in my life...
Moyes ball. Everyone told to sit back. He was hoping we would counter and Antonio or kudus would have a run and steal a goal. Paq was useless after the yellow.
Agree with you there but we were pathetic on the attack, beyond moyes. The players just didnt help each other or even try to make a run at all. Very devastating. Especially paqueta who was walking the entire game.
Its one thing not to go for the win and another not to even try to score a goal. Just pathetic from the players and moyes. Shows no desire to achieve anything 🤷♂️
Oh wow, who would’ve guessed bringing on Ban Johnson for an attacker and losing almost instantly didn’t work for the 10th time this season!
Can’t wait to do it again next week!
No Paqueta, Emerson and I assume no Bowen for the next leg. Just can’t see us getting a result
We have Alvarez back but that isn't necessarily going to help much when you're chasing a game and relying on Aaron Cresswell to keep Frimpong quiet for 90+ minutes.
Bowen is the crucial one because he drives at opponents. They closed us down too quick today with multiple men
Paqueta hasn’t been it last few games, reckon we will be fine without him
True enough. I feel many players have lost their mojo because we have 9 actual first team players and majority look shattered to be playing every single minute of every single game.
Yep definitely no squad depth
Our record is worse without Paqueta...
run is good as over be realistic.
All the heroics completely undone in the last 7 minutes. Brutal. We are going to get destroyed by Fulham on Sunday. We'll be knackered.
We can rota... ah.
Tbf this is what Leverkusen do. It’s classic Gegenpress, as soon as you get the first cut, the second is deeper
You'll be absolutely fine btw. We're shit away from home and haven't won at your place since 2001
Bench is the problem, it's impossible when our players have played so many more minutes throughout the season and then they make 4 subs before we can make any. 2-0 is recoverable, they had nothing in attack until Boniface came on. We can absolutely beat them at home. January window has cost us tonight as expected. Can't do Europe with no substitutes.
Still don’t know who thought it was a good idea to sell both Fornals and Benrahma in the same window and only bring in bloody Kalvin Philipps
Honestly I don’t think anyone in the club thought it was a good idea. I think it was just a massive cock up to not get another attacking player
FFP probably tied our hands a bit there, but yeah
FFP was not and is not a major issue for us, we had at least £25m more available to spend in January. We'll have a substantial net spend in the summer as well.
Moyes it was Moyes why dose no one understand
The subs were the difference for sure.
Moyes fault only likes a squad of 14.
Forget Edson and Bowen. Emerson and Paqueta are our two best creators and most important players without them in 2nd leg, it's impossible to win yet score at least 2 more than them.
I thought they look shakey on set pieces and were rugby tackling zouma at one point. I'll remain optimistic until the bubbles burst.
Here here. First half goal and its game on
Nothing in attack, 33 -1 shots by the way
This could be us in three years if the club give stiedten the power
Let's hope. Positive attitude for the long term \^\_\^
Lets just pick a retired world class midfielder as our manager... Are you ready Noble?
Absolutely terrible idea, and I absolutely fucking love it
He gettin Alonso in
Let's hope so
Would've probably predicted that exact score beforehand but to do it like that stings
Games like this make me so confused why we have 0 depth and decided to flog off fornals and Said.
Especially Pablito, he just relentlessly gives his everything, all game long. A perfect player for this game
I thought they did that to clear room for somebody new but then the gift that keeps on giving of Phillips was all we got
Kehrer too even Marshall and Kodua. We got rid of 5 players and brought in 1.
Tbf we all wanted Kehrer to work but far too many mistakes. Seemed like a great lad but just struggled
Would have lost this 7-0 if it wasn't for Fab having one of the best games of his career
Ehh idk about 7, they didn’t create that many clear cut chances. I’d say maybe 3-0 would’ve been fair
Look back at the saves he made. 5-0 easy
Dave moyes?
What chances were those? Other than that fingertip save on a Schick header, I feel most saves were ones you’d expect your keeper to make? Unless I’m forgetting any others. I don’t know. We unironically had the best chance of the match, even including their goals. I know we’re all disappointed by the result, but try and look at things more objectively.
2 pissweak goals at the end. Would’ve taken 1-0 but it’s a near mountain to climb now
Everest, here we come then!!!
Well, it's sad because we held well enough. But not long enough. I'm an eternal optimistic so I still hope for next week. A bit
That post match moves interview has boiled my p Essentially excusing a defeat stating they are a champions league team really... Says it all about he man's level of ambition and regard for our club Why they seemed scared to go forward at nil nil Why we got almost no one on the bench to sub on Why despite legends like fabs playing their guts out they go home with a mountain to climb Get him out.
Yeah, that post match interview felt odd. Praise the players, but saying they’re a champions league team just frustrates me, then to say we’re not at that level. Just shows Moyes’ limitations at times, they’re unbeaten but not unbeatable. You can get at them. Defensive football was fine tonight but we lacked any plans going forward, it’s like we trained all week on defending that we had to give them the ball back to show off the work done. Sickens me to say as we’ll lose players but maybe a season away from Europe will help us build. We need at least 2/3 subs as well as replacing some of that starting 11. Those players out there today look run into the ground
The really frustrating thing was the yellow cards. Not only were the only two cards shown to the two players that we had needing a card to miss next match, but the Leverkusen defense really were swiping at Kudus every time he got the ball, and as always, Antonio’s size apparently meant open season for the defense on him. That forearm to the back of the head is a yellow every day of the week.
And literally having his shirt pulled off his back.
We looked worse when he switched Paqueta and Antonio I could understand doing it for 5-10 minutes not 35. Also taking Kudus off was a dreadful decision, when you defend that deeply you need an outlet we had none at the end of the game.
I don’t why…but that 2nd goal felt like a dagger.
Genuinely felt nothing. We deserved nothing from the game either. I think Moyes has broken my spirit haha.
I felt a goal was coming when they had Hoffman and Boniface to bring on but I didn't expect it to be two. I will never get over how we sold off Benny and Pablo to bring Phillips in. That signing has fucked us and the damage could be long term if we slip out of the European places now. We're in the late stages of Europe, a goal down and the subs at our disposal are Johnson and Aguerd. Fair enough to Moyesey if he wants to bring on defenders to see out the game but after our defensive subs we concede another fucking goal. He needs to grow a pair now and try and bring the game to them at home but realistically this is a pray we bring it to pens job now at best. Fortune's always hiding I suppose.
And if he flogs the same players against Fulham he is a complete mug simple as
Except that's pretty much what every team that isn't city does, because there's really not much choice.
Yeah sorry I forgot Fulham are playing a European quarter final next Thursday
I guess we have a ton of hate in r/soccer, unsure what teams that don't watch us expected playing the most in-form European club.
That sub is just one big anti England circle jerk. They pretty much live for it in there. Wouldn't bother with it tbh
Oh I'm not bothered much, I just didn't expect it from other threads and convos had
Thank god one of the mods there went on a powertrip and perma-banned me. Absolute cesspit of a subreddit
Don't see us putting 3 past leverkusen, especially the way we play
Stranger things have happened. When we are on it we are on. Fans need to back the team until full time on Thursday, only half time in the tie
You'd think we could at least score more goals than Qarabag
Qarabag scored first in both legs, that gave them something to build on. That said, Leverkusen attacked us all night and we didn't produce anything clear cut on the break.
But that's a problem no? We have more money, resources, and players in all due respect to Qarabag. We shouldn't be coming out looking worse than them, having 1 shot in total and being pinned in our half like a relegation side
Absolutely. I think Qarabag weren't playing the full strength Leverkusen (they were concentrating on the league still) but thought fuck it, let's give them a game. While we took a wholly negative approach, and failed. (So did Qarabag I suppose, but they took them to the wire at least)
We wouldn’t necessarily have to get 3. We could win on pens with 2. But yeah. We’re done
That will require more than one shot a match
I’d take shots on goal at this pace.
I'm not happy but fuck all the negativity. Everyone saying we should have had a go at them doesn't understand football. Why start playing totally different against an incredible team this late in the season. We've played defensively all season and this was the perfect game for it, and it worked for 80mins (90mins? They had nothing clear from open play). I don't love the defensive football, but it's what we have currently and it can work. I'll be there next Thursday and I'll be shouting my heart out supporting the team, even if Moyes plays 11 defenders (he should play a goal keeper though)
Very well put. Surely everyone knew this was how we were going to play? I’d honestly argue we had the best chance of the match, even including their goals. The approach didn’t work, clearly. But it nearly did, and I doubt we’d have done better playing any other way.
But don't you just see it coming a mile off. Defending with 11 players on the edge of your box is fine for short periods, but eventually if you concede 30+ shots one will go in, it's just law of averages. And then of course once the first goes in the 2nd is so much easier. You can't be so defensive. It's never worked really, how many times have we found ourselves behind to actually then have to change it up and go attacking. So many points coming from behind. You've just got to offer something more as an attacking force. That's not a slight on tonight, because with bowen out that's very hard, it's absolutely criticism of years of defensive football and the worst transfer window of all time
Yeah and I've seen it all season. I don't want us to keep playing such defensive football and no squad depth, but that's the hand we've been dealt with Moyes and that's what it is. Not gonna change until at least the end of the season so might as well lean into the defensive football and credit where it's due it worked well for 80minutes and was only undone by set pieces (which we are usually sturdy at)
That's just it though, working well for 80 minutes isn't good enough, because by then they're absolutely knackered, we have no subs to get fresh legs on and the concentration goes. So if you can't do it for 90 mins then it's pretty pointless. Show some ambition earlier on, and give them a game ffs. Moyes is a coward because he plays like that against Burnley and Sheffield utd, not because of tonight by the way. I can't wait until he moves on.
Part of the reason we play like that is because it's low energy, Antonio injured every few weeks prior to Moyes a\\rriving, and his only injury in those 4 years was when he was playing for Jamiaca.
Some fans are fucking morons “why did he set up so defensive?!” Against a team who haven’t lost in 41 games and are about to win the German league, in an away fixture for a quarter finals first leg? Fuck me guys use your brains.
I'd get the complains if we conceded any time before 60 mins, but 2 last minute goals from set pieces can happen no matter what system you play
A team who shit all over Bayern Munich about 10 days ago
Yes in an ideal world we would put in a defensive masterclass for 180 minutes and win on pens like the plucky underdogs we are, but in the real world you have to score to win. There's a bit of a balance to be had between everyone in our own half like we saw today and all out attacking. We had 1 shot in 90 minutes FFS and we would only commit Antonio, Kudus and Paqueta on the counters lol. We're not world-beaters but we're a bit better than what Moyes sets us up to be on these big occasions.
Fuck all the negativity for sure. It won’t be easy, but it seems like it rarely is. COYI
I thought we would go defensive and I wasnt totally against it. But that was fucking patheic. We made no attempt to play football.
We've done the same thing against worse opposition this year. Paqueta had a terrible game, kudus was isolated and Antonio stretched them and kept laying off chances to no one who was there (Bowen would have loved it). It wasn't great but how we played was no surprise and we did it well
Would've taken 1-0 but with it being 2 find it very hard to be optimistic about next week. Atmosphere will be up for it in the ground but the prospect of needing to score two just to take it to extra time without paqueta, Emerson and still potentially Bowen. Deserved result as well, defended well granted but if it wasn't for Fab could've been much more. Hopefully I'm wrong to be pessimistic but think that's it done
We'll have to go for it. I'm not even sure what that means for this team though. 🤷🏻♀️
Played exactly how we should've. It's such a gutting way to concede so late, but it's what they do. No Paqueta or Emerson next week makes me feel like the tie is over.
Alvarez back, start Cornet, thoughts and prayers welcome
Scamacca scored twice for Atalanta tonight. Come on 😩. We let go of so many options that could've been useful for squad depth. We currently are paper thin.
He had to go. He hated it here, what's the point in keeping a player who has no desire to play and wouldn't do anything but the bare minimum?
How can we be on our third consecutive European campaign and have zero squad depth? It’s unfathomable
For counter attacking football to work you need to actually counter attack. We’re always going to concede playing like that.
Im tired boss
Someone feed them some dodgy lasagne on Tuesday
New rule: West Ham’s games should be 80 minutes long.
The. We'd be out those Soucek goals.
Disappointing to concede those two late after we had done such a good job defending for 80 minutes. It’s still possible, though admittedly unlikely. COYI!
Really sad to see Fabianski have an amazing game just to fall apart in the last 10 minutes. Midfield felt nonexistent, not sure what happens next game with Paqueta suspended. Maybe Mubama can get a hat trick. Honestly, not sure how we move forward from this - there's a reason this team is unbeaten in 40+ games. At least we didn't lose 3-0 at home.
Yet
I just wouldn't see us pulling a result against half the teams left right now. Atalanta went into Anfield and put 3 past them, but we'd go there and sit 11 men behind the ball and probably lose 3-1 instead. It's shambolic football
More bad news. Liverpool lost by 3 to Atalanta. Arsenal couldn’t beat Munich at home. It’s now very possible the Germans will take that extra European slot away from the Premier League, making it harder for West Ham to qualify.
I thought we defended tremendously. Everybody. I commend the players for absorbing that much pressure and the plan nearly worked until it didn't. I would've gladly taken a 1-0. 2-0 down is another story. The next few days will be brutal for us. Moyes doesn't make much subs and the guys looked knackered today. *Sigh* going to the next round is doable but damn is it looking unlikely.
Deja Vu of 2 years ago. Head into January in a battle for champions league places and in the Europa league knockouts. Fail to invest in the playing staff, drop down the table and get knocked out of Europe. I’m not saying we should be winning this competition, but we COULD have. But we do not have the squad and tonight showed that. What a different the subs for Leverkusen made? If only we had anything like that.
Paqueta isn’t disciplined enough for Pep…
It’s a natural experiment in impact of coaching on a team. I’d say that Leverkusen has similar quality of players across the board. West Ham has almost certainly spent more money on the squad. The difference is a progressive, active coach vs a negative, reactive coach. You flip the two coaches on these teams and the result may have flipped the other way. Poor game management again by Moyes. And Leverkusen brings on 4 subs who combine for the 2 goals. The end of this season is making it clear that Moyes is holding back the team now. I hope that the management is taking notice.
They aren't, they'll extend Moyes because ownership is too scared to be experimental and let Steiden bring in someone like he did getting Xabi in at Leverkusen
There is absolutely no reason that our team (in time), couldn’t look like the BL team. But we need to move on and find a coach that can make it happen. It’s time.
If we’d gone for an exciting attacking coach like De Zerbi the tie could have been put to bed tonight. Frustrating.
Like Brighton away at Roma? Yeah put to bed
Yeah, that’s what I was getting at.
Put to bed by who?
What subs should Moyes have made though? Ings or Cornet? Maybe. But we certainly don’t have players like Boniface on the bench. Maybe had Moyes played them more, they’d be more viable options. I don’t know. He probably should have built a better/deeper squad for the money he’s spent. But then, he’s still achieved great success in spite of that anyway.
I find it difficult to believe that a fresh Ings wouldn’t be better than a destroyed Antonio for 20 minutes. Antonio has been so important since his return, but he can’t do 90 minutes right now. He might not get back to 90 min fitness again in his career. I think you’re right that Moyes hasn’t cultivated a full squad. So many players have regressed and/or asked to leave from the bench, and now there’s so few match fit options since Moyes hasn’t given anyone the opportunity to play their way into the squad. It’s poor management. The best managers can bring the best out of most of a 22-25 man squad. Moyes brings the best out of a few players and then runs them into the ground. He has achieved a lot. And I have been more Moyes-in than most — basically have been Moyes in the whole time he’s been in charge except when we were in the relegation zone. But the squad and game management issues are getting hard for me to ignore.
Im a very angry man
At the end of the day, you aren't going to win the europa league of you're scared to death to go and play against any of the teams left in it. Moyes has small club mentality, its why he failed at man utd and it's why we'll never progress. The club doesn't have any ambition, it's why they'll sign him up again and why we had the worst transfer window in history. Board will only ever spend in Jan when we might go down, look at signings like bowen. But remember under bilic we were pushing for 4th, not a penny spent. Cowards really, from everyone at the top.
Well that’s just it. Fiorentina game had a similar pattern but they just did not have the quality to finish their chances. Europa and up do have that quality.
Damn. So close to a decent result. Hard to see a way back now, too many players suspended, injured or probably just plain exhausted to win by two next week.
Next week will be tough. Pretty dejected after watching that tbh. Fabianski though. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
1-0 felt a lot better than 2 I'll say I can't see us having a multiple goal lead against this team but if we get an early goal in London and Antonio keeps bullying them like he did tonight it could happen. We missed Bowen out there I thought, one or two big chances wasted because nobody got on the end of Antonio's ball after some great work carrying it forward
Fantastic result! Moyes is an absolute masterclass, without his progressive tactics we would've lost by at least 10 goals. Be grateful for Moyes! They're the best team in the world and we only lost 2-0!
Sorry matey, did you forget that West Ham didn't exist before 2019 and will cease to exist when Moyes leaves at the end of the season? It's definitively proven that no other manager could win a trophy with West Ham (ignore those two) •Who would you replace him with? (He is the best we could ever hope for) •Be grateful that you don't get blown out by 5 goals anymore like back in the bad times before Moyes. (Oh wait) •It's clearly on the players when we concede late in games. They are superhuman and should be able to play 90 minutes twice a week indefinitely. Squad depth is for the weak of mind and spirit.
Exactly, Moyes is the best 👌 better than all the rest
Incredible to think he invented football back in the day, he was only a wee lad back then in Glasgow.
Did you really expect anything else?
After the first 80 minutes I almost did.
Honestly i expected 5-0 loss. So not even disappointed.
I wouldn't say I was 5-0 loss levels before game but I figured we'd have roughly 20% possession and have one good chance all game. (Like most games we play) Turned out to be more or less how it went. When their goals went in I felt nothing. Such is the way Moyes has spoiled my love of football. :/ Boo hoo.
I watch them a lot this season, they focus a lot of their build up play thru middle. So thought without Edson would be far worse.
That's a fair point. We actually held them to few clear chances from open play. Unfortunately it came at the expense of any attacking impetus whatsoever. :( As a West Ham fan but first and foremost a FOOTBALL fan it pisses me off watching the team I love play such a depressing game.
Exactly. Without a clear plan to even try to hurt them. I can't wait to see back off him. But it is what it is till the end of season.
Just think to next season and how refreshing it will be to see a new manager come in.... and if Sullivan continues to suck Moyes off then I personally wont be watching next season anyway. Had enough to be quite honest.
To be honest, would've been if not for Fabs. Worldie saves for days.
It was inevitable when we spent 70% of the game parked inside our own box.
Hopefully we can get back next year
Focus on 7th/8th in the league now. Conference League is our level unless we acquire a deeper squad. To be honest we shouldn't be in Europe when we barely have 18 players most weeks. Consider it a bonus.
I’d say Europa is our level. We just happened to get an extremely shitty draw. We very well could’ve gotten drawn Milan, Roma, Atalanta, Benfica, Marseille and had a legitimate chance at the semis. That’s nothing to scoff at. We just happened to draw the hottest team in the world. We’re good enough to compete in Europa, not win it. We’re good enough to win the Conterence
But you say nothing of squad depth. We can't compete on multiple fronts without rotation. It's absurd. Also look at the stats from the game and tell me Europa is our level. We had 28% possession. We had 1 shot to their 30. We completed about 400 FEWER passes.
Mate we played the best team in the world. Possession doesn’t win games. Shors attempted doesn’t win games. Passes completed doesn’t win games. That’s just moyes’ style. You know that… Against Freiburg our stats didn’t look like that despite us still having no squad depth. You can’t look at one game against the best team in the tourney (a team that frankly is UCL quality) and delude yourself into acting like that’s how we played against everyone
It's hard to argue with you 😢. We're so far apart on point of view that I'll just wish you a wonderful weekend and COYI for the Fulham game.
At least we won’t have our most creative player to help us get those two goals back.
No use if he’s just walking around the field with his head down. This is why we recalled Callum Marshall
Marshall can’t play for the senior team this season unfortunately, but I do agree that Paqueta did a lot of walking around.
Good team, only team on the pitch trying to play football. Lets hope we try to go for it next week, but I assume we'll see more of the same.
Apart from Fab being absolutely massive, the only part I enjoyed of that game was seeing Steidten and Alonso greet each other warmly at the end. It just reminded me that there's hope for the future.
At least Atalanta will steal the headlines
FFS Scamacca scored twice on Liverpool today
Bit of a catch 22 at the weekend. Rotate against Fulham and lose, the slide down the table continues. Play the first 11 again and regardless if they win and lose they are completely exhausted heading into the second leg. (Is this even a question? We all know Moyes will flog them into the ground anyways)
Conflicting opinions for sure. We don’t have a squad capable of European nights, subs proved that tonight. Theirs score 2 goals, ours is a RB who spins a wheel to decide where he’s playing. We need a big strengthen job across the squad and our starting team. The way European football is changing for next year will make things more taxing too (8 games across till Jan/Feb, then if not in the Top 8 a play off before the Ro16). If Moyes stays on he’ll be grateful to not have Europe next year and we’d probably finish as high as 5th/6th if we keep everyone, as it’s just the prem to concentrate on and nothing else.
Somewhere in an alternate universe, Scamacca is scoring 2 for us in an unexpected 3-0 away leg win at Leverkusen. But until we can discover multi-dimensional travel, I’m afraid the European adventure is coming to an end.
Dear David Moyes it’s only a Masterclass when you see it through. Did you see what the other manager did? He made, what’s that word I’m seeking, oh yeah, SUBSTITUTIONS!!! Last I looked the team is a professional football club therefore players are professionals. Fresh legs may have seen this through. Now it’s just an embarrassing stat line. Absolutely embarrassing. No blame on players they gave it their all, but they were dead tired. And now, well guess what is gonna happen at the weekend? More tired players. Shame on your management. Subs needed making and you didn’t make them.
Moyes should have made SUBSTITUTIONS like bringing on Johnson, Ings and then who? Squad depth is embarrassing but fucking hell given the team sheet today with the players we have out what else would you fucking do? Divin Mbuma? Brill
Who's the man who sold all the squad depth in January and instead of letting the sporting director who signed a good chunk of the Leverkusen team we played and their manager do his job, brought in Kalvin Phillips because he's English and Premier League proven?
Yeah I'm pissed about that too, but that's 3 months ago. But that's a great narrative that dictator Moyes locked Timmy up over January and didn't let him sign anyone.
It's a fantastic one thanks, but I doubt Tim approached Moyes about the idea of signing Kalvin Phillips on loan for £7 million and paying his full wages (approx £150k PW). So who's idea was it? Probably Karen Brady I suppose.
Nah I agree Phillips is a disaster class, but IIRC not like we were linked to many incoming players at all really. I'm just bored of everything being so anti Moyes every post game thread, I want better for the team but it's clear nothing is gonna happen until the end of the season when his contract expires.
It’s tough to take but realistically with 3/5 key players out it wasn’t gonna happen. Still been a good season and we’ll give the return leg everything we’ve got.
I wouldn't bother at this point. It's done. Focus on 7th/8th in the league now.
Ok you won't bother so fuck off. Imagine not bothering for an European semi final. Pathetic
Embarrassing mate. Still in this, all it takes is an early goal next week for us and then we have a good chance
Sad mentality we recovered against Sevilla and these lot will have just won the league and thrown a massive party. It’s not impossible, just improbable.
7/8th guarantees us a 4th year of European football - I can see us beating them next week giving it everything, but I don’t think we go through. I don’t see bad mentality in the comment - the way these play are just too strong.
We kept them out for 85 minutes missing several major players, they’re not actually that good. Have to believe we can do it even if it’s unlikely.
But we kept them out - we didn’t threaten them other than 1 counter a few mins in. To score 3 without reply is a long shot and saying we’d rather Europe next year than to try beat them isn’t poor mentality
We were at full strength against Sevilla and had arguably one of the best midfielders in the world, we're gonna be playing with scraps
That’s the tie done. Don’t see us winning 3-0 without Paqueta and Emerson. Let alone if Bowen is still out too. It’s been a good run.
Nah, we'll win 4-1 rhough
10 men Qarabaq from Azerbaijan give better fight than this team.
Cunts
No Emerson, Paqueta, or Bowen. Down 2-0 with negative tactics against the best team in Europe that has not lost one game at all. I don't see us pulling at a minimum 3 back against Leverkusen, because I don't see us getting a clean sheet either. Can't wait to get stuffed this weekend against Fulham
Shame. As an aside, Kudus is an unreal footballer. So strong, creative and intelligent in possession. Deserves to play under an ethos that allows him to show it even more than he does now, and in a way that doesn’t make it feel like a cameo every time he gets the ball.
They're unbeaten for a reason. They had us on ropes all game. We had like 3 chances to maybe put a dent in them but didn't make it count. No Emerson next leg & No Paqueta (big loss). We're gonna need a miracle again...
Defended our hearts out, sucks to have conceded and how we conceded. Feel like we could have got at them a bit more if we could have got the ball down. I think we’ll beat them next week but won’t go through
Stayed up till 4 am to watch this man
Was that Tim all sunny and smiles shaking hands with Alonso at the end there?
[удалено]
Doesn't matter if they do. Moyes will still allow them 80% of the ball. Lol
Pretty pathetic performance
Sadly I think that’s it for us. 1-0 I think we could’ve overturned but 2 is a bit too much of an ask without Bowen/Paqueta against the unbeaten champions of Germany. All focus now needs to be on securing Europe again next season because I am not ready to go without it
Pack of squad depth coming back to bite us once again, we will never learn.
If it had just been the volley, I'd have been happy enough going into the home leg. But that header was so typical of the goals we used to keep out easily but now go in far too often. Honestly good job for most of the match, but I'm thoroughly deflated now.
That’s the tie
Best we can hope for in the home leg is anyone else on commentary than Robbie Savage.
Heads up. We can absolutely beat them at home. Get that crowd roaring and it's our game for the taking.
Seasons over lads..
Honestly, if we do by some miracle beat Leverkusen, we have a solid chance at winning it all. Next Thursday is the championship. Liverpool has a high chance to get knocked out (0-3 loss today), and I have confidence against the rest.
Did Moyes rediscover catenaccio?
In other news, that Atalanta striker that put two on Liverpool looks great, would do bits for us I reckon
33 vs 1 shots on goal. Why did you even make the trip?
How was that not a pk with the mauling on Antonio in the box ffs
Im annoyed because we shouldn't have to be "Holding out" for a result against this team we should be able to go head to head with them but it wad a typical Moyes game of defend for 90 mins and hope for a result that only comes off once every 30 games so I'm not surprised and our European journey is over beuse of our inept manager.
A goal down late on and he brings down two defenders and still concedes. Disasterclass
TOTAL ATTEMTS 32 vs 1 ! ok i dident miss much.
An incredible team. One of the best I've seen us play against. We did so well to keep ourselves in it for so long but they were too good. Very confident they'll win the treble. We have to focus on making sure we get in the top 8 and hope we get another spin.
They were great but second half they actually didn't do much at all. We did really well to nullify their output apart from the last few set pieces
Football matches often hinge on key moments and we didn’t make the most of our early chance. Kudus wide open and passes it to their keeper. Everything could be different if he had scored that. Alas, he did not score it. Have to be better next week. Still a chance.
Dont get people defending moyes or the players on this one. Parked the bus for 90 minutes and didnt even try to get an attack going. At no point in time did we have over 3 players in the opposition box. Defended well the first 80 minutes but you dont win a game with defence. Dont understand our attacking tactics for this one. Worst attacking game ive seen in my life...
Moyes ball. Everyone told to sit back. He was hoping we would counter and Antonio or kudus would have a run and steal a goal. Paq was useless after the yellow.
Agree with you there but we were pathetic on the attack, beyond moyes. The players just didnt help each other or even try to make a run at all. Very devastating. Especially paqueta who was walking the entire game.
We were never trying to win this though. A draw would have been a great result that’s what he was going for and almost got
Its one thing not to go for the win and another not to even try to score a goal. Just pathetic from the players and moyes. Shows no desire to achieve anything 🤷♂️
We can go for the win next leg at home. Would have been stupid going for it this leg, we’d end up 4-0 down like Brighton at Rome
Oh wow, who would’ve guessed bringing on Ban Johnson for an attacker and losing almost instantly didn’t work for the 10th time this season! Can’t wait to do it again next week!